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View Full Version : Keep Wise, cut Uribe


thomas35forever
06-25-2008, 12:26 AM
Who else thinks we should keep Wise on the roster when Paulie gets off the DL and cut ties with Juan. It's better than making Juan sit on the bench a lot. Sure he's been getting it done off the bench, but Wise has been very impressive during his stint here.

jabrch
06-25-2008, 12:27 AM
Who else thinks we should keep Wise on the roster when Paulie gets off the DL and cut ties with Juan. It's better than making Juan sit on the bench a lot. Sure he's been getting it done off the bench, but Wise has been very impressive during his stint here.

Wise is our backup SS, should something happen to OC. When PK comes back, assuming we have no other injuries, either BA or Wise go down.

gobears1987
06-25-2008, 12:27 AM
Well Wise is far more likely to produce than Uribe is. I've liked what I've seen so far.

hi im skot
06-25-2008, 12:28 AM
Not a bad idea, but we're limited on the bench defensively with Uribe gone.

Wise is riding a nice little hot streak, but remember, he is a career minor leaguer. I like what he's doing, and it'd be great to see him keep it up.

oeo
06-25-2008, 12:28 AM
Wise is our backup SS, should something happen to OC. When PK comes back, assuming we have no other injuries, either BA or Wise go down.

The way Ozzie's been playing them, Alexei is actually the backup SS.

If Wise is still hot when it's time for Paulie to come back, you have to do something to keep him here. Whether that's Uribe or Anderson, it's got to be one of the two.

Also keep in mind that it wouldn't be as simple as just sending Wise down...he would have to get through waivers again, and if he's been playing well, that may not happen.

btrain929
06-25-2008, 12:29 AM
Wise is our backup SS, should something happen to OC. When PK comes back, assuming we have no other injuries, either BA or Wise go down.

I always wanted the Sox to go back to the old school "park district" style of lefties playing SS and C.....

Sockinchisox
06-25-2008, 12:29 AM
Wise is our backup SS, should something happen to OC. When PK comes back, assuming we have no other injuries, either BA or Wise go down.

Might wanna look over that again.

And Alexei could easily switch over to short and allow Ozuna to play 2nd should Cabrera get hurt.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 12:29 AM
Awfully thin on backup infielders if you do this. I like Wise, but don't know how you can go with one guy to back up the whole IF.

scarsofthumper
06-25-2008, 12:30 AM
I say keep Wise, send down either BA or Uribe

thomas35forever
06-25-2008, 12:31 AM
I say keep Wise, send down either BA or Uribe
If we have to keep a backup IF, then BA is going to have to be the odd man out.

gobears1987
06-25-2008, 12:34 AM
If we have to keep a backup IF, then BA is going to have to be the odd man out.

I'm not going the argue the merits of making the decision either way, but if BA is sent down, then WSI will be a fun place for the next week or so.

hi im skot
06-25-2008, 12:34 AM
I say keep Wise, send down either BA or Uribe

I'm no FOBA, but he deserves better than that. I'd want his glove, anyway...

jabrch
06-25-2008, 12:35 AM
Obviously I meant Uribe is our backup SS. And you can't count on Alexei to play SS after not being there this year.

Uribe is probably here for good...

jabrch
06-25-2008, 12:36 AM
I'm not going the argue the merits of making the decision either way, but if BA is sent down, then WSI will be a fun place for the next week or so.

Either way - the experts will claim to know more than the professionals...

oeo
06-25-2008, 12:37 AM
I'm no FOBA, but he deserves better than that. I'd want his glove, anyway...

Even if you were a fan, he's not making much of a case for himself lately. Don't give me the lack of playing time excuse, because he just finished up starting 7 out of 8 games, and hit a whopping 6/29.

hi im skot
06-25-2008, 12:39 AM
Even if you were a fan, he's not making much of a case for himself lately. Don't give me the lack of playing time excuse, because he just finished up starting 7 out of 8 games, and hit a whopping 6/29.

In limited action, he's done a decent job. He's only getting better...

Of course, if Wise keeps it up, I like his bat and BA's glove late in the game.

SaltyPretzel
06-25-2008, 12:40 AM
Dump Thome.

Craig Grebeck
06-25-2008, 12:41 AM
For the love of God just cut Pablo Ozuna.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 12:42 AM
If we have to keep a backup IF, then BA is going to have to be the odd man out.

Given their roles, Wise brings everything BA does and he bats LH, something they currently don't have on the bench when they are healthy and playing their assumed regular lineup.

BA probably brings more in trade too (though how much more is anyone's guess). Figure he makes a throw in based on potential. Heck, KW could always point to WSI and say, "Ozzie hates, BA. He'll never play here. You should take him, he's a can't miss stud."

Of course Wise has a tiny sample size, so it's silly to proclaim him the one to keep especially since his prior sample size is not tiny and his stats are worse than BA for that much larger sample.

Personally, I'd like to see BA traded just so we can put this argument to bed, but the thing I am really grateful for is that Ryan Sweeney never developed any kind of a fan club here at WSI...:tongue:

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 12:43 AM
For the love of God just cut Pablo Ozuna.

Same problem. It leaves one guy to back up 3 IF slots.

oeo
06-25-2008, 12:43 AM
In limited action, he's done a decent job. He's only getting better...

But he's not. It's almost like the more playing time he gets, the worse off he is. He had a great April where his ABs were very limited. Since then, he's gotten more ABs, and the average has been plummeting.

I'll stop now before I get sniped from my window, though.

JB98
06-25-2008, 12:45 AM
But he's not. It's almost like the more playing time he gets, the worse off he is. He had a great April where his ABs were very limited. Since then, he's gotten more ABs, and the average has been plummeting.

I'll stop now before I get sniped from my window, though.

He gets exposed when he plays everyday. We've seen that recently. He had a stretch here where he started seven out of eight games. He's 4-for-27 since June 12.

hi im skot
06-25-2008, 12:48 AM
But he's not. It's almost like the more playing time he gets, the worse off he is. He had a great April where his ABs were very limited. Since then, he's gotten more ABs, and the average has been plummeting.

I'll stop now before I get sniped from my window, though.

I come in peace, my friend.

I think we can both agree that despite Anderson's issues, a battle between he and Wise is a good "problem" to have.

QCIASOXFAN
06-25-2008, 12:50 AM
Keep Wise and send BA down.

gogosox16
06-25-2008, 12:54 AM
Given their roles, Wise brings everything BA does and he bats LH, something they currently don't have on the bench when they are healthy and playing their assumed regular lineup.

BA probably brings more in trade too (though how much more is anyone's guess). Figure he makes a throw in based on potential. Heck, KW could always point to WSI and say, "Ozzie hates, BA. He'll never play here. You should take him, he's a can't miss stud."

Of course Wise has a tiny sample size, so it's silly to proclaim him the one to keep especially since his prior sample size is not tiny and his stats are worse than BA for that much larger sample.

Personally, I'd like to see BA traded just so we can put this argument to bed, but the thing I am really grateful for is that Ryan Sweeney never developed any kind of a fan club here at WSI...:tongue:
I think I'm the only one that was pissed the Sox never gave him an extended look....I really liked him and thought he was going to be our RF of the future. But it's okay, I kind of got over it and would get over it if he would go in a huge slump and Swish catch on fire:redneck

Frankfan4life
06-25-2008, 01:03 AM
Given their roles, Wise brings everything BA does and he bats LH, something they currently don't have on the bench when they are healthy and playing their assumed regular lineup.

BA probably brings more in trade too (though how much more is anyone's guess). Figure he makes a throw in based on potential. Heck, KW could always point to WSI and say, "Ozzie hates, BA. He'll never play here. You should take him, he's a can't miss stud."

Of course Wise has a tiny sample size, so it's silly to proclaim him the one to keep especially since his prior sample size is not tiny and his stats are worse than BA for that much larger sample.

Personally, I'd like to see BA traded just so we can put this argument to bed, but the thing I am really grateful for is that Ryan Sweeney never developed any kind of a fan club here at WSI...:tongue:Another upside to keeping Wise over BA is SPEED. The Sox desparetly need players who can steal bases or take an extra base on a hit. However, I agree that the jury is still out on Wise's long term performance.

TDog
06-25-2008, 01:12 AM
Given their roles, Wise brings everything BA does and he bats LH, something they currently don't have on the bench when they are healthy and playing their assumed regular lineup.

BA probably brings more in trade too (though how much more is anyone's guess). Figure he makes a throw in based on potential. Heck, KW could always point to WSI and say, "Ozzie hates, BA. He'll never play here. You should take him, he's a can't miss stud."

Of course Wise has a tiny sample size, so it's silly to proclaim him the one to keep especially since his prior sample size is not tiny and his stats are worse than BA for that much larger sample.

Personally, I'd like to see BA traded just so we can put this argument to bed, but the thing I am really grateful for is that Ryan Sweeney never developed any kind of a fan club here at WSI...:tongue:

Oddly enough, this is exactly what I was thinking.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 01:18 AM
Another upside to keeping Wise over BA is SPEED. The Sox desparetly need players who can steal bases or take an extra base on a hit. However, I agree that the jury is still out on Wise's long term performance.

Another good point. Anderson may be as fast as Wise - I bet it's pretty close, but Wise seems to have a better knack for stealing bases.

Noneck
06-25-2008, 01:19 AM
Wise brings everything BA does and he bats LH,


You are saying Wise is equal to Anderson defensively? That is a very important aspect of being the backup cf on this team and able to play all 3 of positions well.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 01:22 AM
You are saying Wise is equal to Anderson defensively? That is a very important aspect of being the backup cf on this team.

BA is marginally better with the glove. Swisher is a solid CF though too. I don't think the one play a month BA is going to make with his glove in late game situations is a valid enough reason to be the deciding factor.

gogosox16
06-25-2008, 01:25 AM
BA is marginally better with the glove. Swisher is a solid CF though too. I don't think the one play a month BA is going to make with his glove in late game situations is a valid enough reason to be the deciding factor.
I agree and another reason why I would keep Wise is because it would give you a left handed bat off the bench in late game situations and speed. Our bench is all righties and we need a lefty stick in that lineup

Noneck
06-25-2008, 01:26 AM
BA is marginally better with the glove. Swisher is a solid CF though too. I don't think the one play a month BA is going to make with his glove in late game situations is a valid enough reason to be the deciding factor.


I don't know, as I thought and edited my post, Its nice to have someone that can play all 3 OF positions better than anyone on the club.

pmck003
06-25-2008, 01:31 AM
Its a little early to say send BA down for a 30 year old, up-to-this point journeyman player. Course if Wise keeps it up for the next week or two (offense and defense), I think BA has had enough chances to stick around on a first place ballclub.

Edit - I like the point about speed

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 01:33 AM
I don't know, as I thought and edited my post, Its nice to have someone that can play all 3 OF positions better than anyone on the club.

Starting in about 8 days, PK is available to return and with the DH back starting Saturday, the Sox are going to want to move Swish back to CF for most of the rest of the season.

At that point in time they have a bunch of guys who can play OF including Swish who can play all three slots. That includes Ramirez who can play CF. I don't hate BA, I just don't think he brings that much to the table as a bench player. He's simply not going to get enough opportunities as a late inning defensive replacement to make his glove the deciding factor, IMO.

JB98
06-25-2008, 01:41 AM
Silly me, but when Konerko comes back, I'd keep both BA and Wise and send down Russell.

I'm not sure why the hell we need 12 pitchers.

Noneck
06-25-2008, 01:42 AM
Starting in about 8 days, PK is available to return and with the DH back starting Saturday, the Sox are going to want to move Swish back to CF for most of the rest of the season.

At that point in time they have a bunch of guys who can play OF including Swish who can play all three slots. That includes Ramirez who can play CF. I don't hate BA, I just don't think he brings that much to the table as a bench player. He's simply not going to get enough opportunities as a late inning defensive replacement to make his glove the deciding factor, IMO.
I understand what you are saying but I really think keeping a 30+ career minor leaguer with a career .204 BA and .244 OBP on this club at this point is not a good move.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 01:43 AM
Silly me, but when Konerko comes back, I'd keep both BA and Wise and send down Russell.

I'm not sure why the hell we need 12 pitchers.

I can live with that. They can always recall someone on a day's notice if they run into a bad stretch and it's only another 3 weeks until the AS break. With Crede's back acting up and Fields presently injured himself, I don't think the Sox can afford to cut any infield players at the moment.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 01:45 AM
I understand what you are saying but I really think keeping a 30+ career minor leaguer with a career .204 BA and .244 OBP on this club at this point is not a good move.

I mentioned this above. I agree, but if he keeps performing in his chances, what are you going to do?

JB98
06-25-2008, 01:48 AM
I can live with that. They can always recall someone on a day's notice if they run into a bad stretch and it's only another 3 weeks until the AS break. With Crede's back acting up and Fields presently injured himself, I don't think the Sox can afford to cut any infield players at the moment.

I agree. Uribe and Ozuna are both needed because the Sox can't be certain of Crede's health, either now or for the long term. The back can flare up at any time.

I think 12 pitchers is excessive, especially since Ozzie's philosophy is to allow the starters to go deep into games.

Noneck
06-25-2008, 01:51 AM
I mentioned this above. I agree, but if he keeps performing in his chances, what are you going to do?

I know and agree, When he was brought up this time I never thought he would have gotten the opportunity. I guess he got the opportunity because Ozwaldo has a hardon for Anderson because he didn't get a triple in that cubs game. Opportunity knocked and Wise answered the door, I give him credit.

scarsofthumper
06-25-2008, 01:54 AM
Wait, Russell is still a part of the active roster?

That changes everything.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 01:55 AM
I know and agree, When he was brought up this time I never thought he would have gotten the opportunity. I guess he got the opportunity because Ozwaldo has a hardon for Anderson because he didn't get a triple in that cubs game. Opportunity knocked and Wise answered the door, I give him credit.

Ozzie's just been platooning them based on the pitcher's throwing arm ever since Wise got recalled. I don't think Ozzie's got it in for BA, though in his shoes I'd be upset if any player missed a coaches signal to keep running (or to stop). I don't know for a fact that's what happened this past weekend, but if it did and you were in Ozzie's shoes, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?

Noneck
06-25-2008, 02:01 AM
I don't know for a fact that's what happened this past weekend, but if it did and you were in Ozzie's shoes, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?

Yea I would but I don't think I would have had the stones to play a career minor leaguer in that series vs. the cubs. It worked out and if it keeps up I will be in your camp.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 02:03 AM
Oh and just to get this party really kicking... For all the talk about Wise being a journeyman minor leaguer, he has less AB in the majors than BA.

In his best season for both PT and numbers he put up an OPS 70 points higher than BA's best effort prior to this year.

I agree that sending down Russel is the best option, but maybe Wise is simply a late bloomer...

scarsofthumper
06-25-2008, 02:13 AM
How about we send down BA and Russell and bring up Jerry Owens?

High Mileage
06-25-2008, 02:15 AM
Ross Gload for Uribe! Deal?

chisoxfanatic
06-25-2008, 02:18 AM
I say keep Wise, send down either BA or Uribe
NO!
If we have to keep a backup IF, then BA is going to have to be the odd man out.
NO!
Dump Thome.
YES!

Thome's making nearly $17 million to do what exactly?!?! In fact, he should make the decision easy by hanging it up himself like right when PK returns! Wise can have his roster space.

gobears1987
06-25-2008, 02:25 AM
I think we reached a consensus to send Russel down. I too forgot about him. This one's a no brainer.

gobears1987
06-25-2008, 02:27 AM
Ross Gload for Uribe! Deal?
I think I'd make that trade in a heartbeat. We'll even give you guys Sisco back.:tongue:

High Mileage
06-25-2008, 02:28 AM
I think I'd make that trade in a heartbeat. We'll even give you guys Sisco back.:tongue:
He was pretty pissed when he was traded...:angry:

balke
06-25-2008, 02:53 AM
Meh, smells like Luis Terrero syndrome. The guy is swinging a hot bat, but I doubt it'll last. He's a 30 year old journeyman minor leaguer. Great to see the contribution, but let's not get crazy.

Prove me wrong and all that, but seriously... what are the odds he's going to keep hitting well? He hit .256 for his career in the minors. So far you are basing his performance on 18 at-bats in 2008. Too small a sample size. I say he goes back down. But yeah, it will be either him or BA. If he's still hitting, it'll actually probably be BA.

Domeshot17
06-25-2008, 03:26 AM
I like Wise, but if we had anything else on the bench we wouldn't need him. Anderson has a purpose here, he is a defensive replacement OF who does his job, be the best defensive OF on the team. Those thinking Swisher holds BA's jock in Center are nuts. I am not saying you start BA over Swish, but With Swish being just average in Center and JD brutal in Right, Brian is needed.

The real problem is we have 2 dead weight back up infielders. Ozuna since his injury has lost 2 steps, and his only asset was his speed to begin with. Uribe just sucks, but those are 2 of Ozzie's guys, so they won't be going anywhere.

Wise has had a nice little run here, but if hes hitting above .240 after 70 more at bats I would be shocked.

Nellie_Fox
06-25-2008, 03:48 AM
... and JD "brutal" in Right, Brian is needed. Dye is not brutal in right. He's lost a step or two, but he's still solid and has a good arm.

oeo
06-25-2008, 08:45 AM
NO!

NO!

YES!

Thome's making nearly $17 million to do what exactly?!?! In fact, he should make the decision easy by hanging it up himself like right when PK returns! Wise can have his roster space.

Thome isn't going anywhere, and he was actually heating up before having to move into NL parks. He's got his average up to .229 now (batting .302/.406/.642 in June).

White City
06-25-2008, 09:07 AM
This article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnLLpvWB7Fp4nrlK16i9wG0U0bYF?slug=teamre ports-2008-mlb-chw&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report) quotes Ozzie as saying we will stay at 12 pitchers, and that Uribe might be on the block. Brian Anderson doesn't get mentioned at all -- that's probably NOT a good thing for him.

russ99
06-25-2008, 09:15 AM
With Wise staying up and Paul coming back, we all know BA is the prime target to go back down. We're not going to carry 5 outfielders, and Alexei can sub at CF if needed.

But it may be a moot point with Joe's back acting up.

Tragg
06-25-2008, 09:19 AM
Even if you were a fan, he's not making much of a case for himself lately. Don't give me the lack of playing time excuse, because he just finished up starting 7 out of 8 games, and hit a whopping 6/29. With 2 home runs. It's also as good as most of the veterans on the team over that period. But that's the Guillen philosophy - young players with upside get 2 weeks (usually 2 days) to show him something. Hack veterans with ceiling of mediocre get wheeled out there day after day and game after game; and when they produce garbage, Ozzie will say they're a "coach on the field" or the equivalent of a ".400 hitter". When it comes to 2B, Ozzie says he's all about defense; but in the far more important defensive position of CF, he isn't. It's no wonder, young offensive players aren't developed. The only young player that impressed this field staff is owens and to a lesser extent ramirez. They wanted nothing to do with Sweeney, had Quentin deep down on the depth chart, etc.

oeo
06-25-2008, 09:43 AM
With 2 home runs. It's also as good as most of the veterans on the team over that period. But that's the Guillen philosophy - young players with upside get 2 weeks (usually 2 days) to show him something. Hack veterans with ceiling of mediocre get wheeled out there day after day and game after game; and when they produce garbage, Ozzie will say they're a "coach on the field" or the equivalent of a ".400 hitter". When it comes to 2B, Ozzie says he's all about defense; but in the far more important defensive position of CF, he isn't. It's no wonder, young offensive players aren't developed. The only young player that impressed this field staff is owens and to a lesser extent ramirez.

Who has been hitting that bad in that period?

And what kind of upside does Brian have? He's 26 now, and while it looked at the beginning of the season like he was turning the corner, now I'm seeing the same 'ol crap from the guy at the plate. He's a sucker for the pitcher's pitch, breaking stuff way out of the zone when behind in the count equals an automatic 'he gone.' I just don't see what some of you see in the guy. If he was going to improve on his obvious weaknesses at the plate, he would have done it already.

As far as I'm concerned, the guy is a bust. All you supporters just keep saying, give him time, give him time...how much ****ing time does he need? He's 26 now...it's put up or shut up time.

BTW, I don't want him gone. I think he's a fine fourth outfielder, but I don't think his career will ever go beyond that. I'm just sick of hearing how he should be starting everyday.

cws05champ
06-25-2008, 09:50 AM
With Wise staying up and Paul coming back, we all know BA is the prime target to go back down. We're not going to carry 5 outfielders, and Alexei can sub at CF if needed.

But it may be a moot point with Joe's back acting up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Having Ozuna and Uribe is redundant...they both play and back up the same positions, only Uribe will play better defense and Ozuna slightly better bat and more speed. If Wise stays up I think Ozuna should be gone. With Ramirez ability to play 2B and SS, and Uribe able to play 2B, 3B and SS, you should not need another back up IF. If something happens and you do, Richar or Getz is a call away. And as stated, they could always send Russell down as well.

Tragg
06-25-2008, 09:53 AM
He's hardly the only player on this team that swings at balls way out of the zone. That's almost a requirement - it's "aggressive."
He hasn't been given a long stretch of unfettered opportunity since the first 1/2 of 06. His defense is also exceptional. (which counts for everyone else except him).
How can we consider dumping him with both Uribe and Ozuna on this team?

Ramirez has a lot of upside, but it's liable to be stunted severely if he can't learn to lay off bad pitches. Williams needs to find a hitting coach to work with Ramirez.

palehozenychicty
06-25-2008, 09:58 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Having Ozuna and Uribe is redundant...they both play and back up the same positions, only Uribe will play better defense and Ozuna slightly better bat and more speed. If Wise stays up I think Ozuna should be gone. With Ramirez ability to play 2B and SS, and Uribe able to play 2B, 3B and SS, you should not need another back up IF. If something happens and you do, Richar or Getz is a call away. And as stated, they could always send Russell down as well.

I'd rather do this than keep Uribe and Ozuna. I know that people love veterans, but not these ones. Richar hasn't done anything yet this year, but at least he has upside. Same with Getz.

cws05champ
06-25-2008, 10:05 AM
I'd rather do this than keep Uribe and Ozuna. I know that people love veterans, but not these ones. Richar hasn't done anything yet this year, but at least he has upside. Same with Getz.
I have no problem keeping one of the veterans(Uribe/Ozuna) on the team. It's really hard to realize any of that upside potential when you are getting a few AB's a week and brought in primarily to play defense. URibe has responded well being brough off the bench, and plays good D. That's what we need. If Wise is here Pablo's speed is not needed.

ChiTownTrojan
06-25-2008, 10:11 AM
I agree. Uribe and Ozuna are both needed because the Sox can't be certain of Crede's health, either now or for the long term. The back can flare up at any time.

I think 12 pitchers is excessive, especially since Ozzie's philosophy is to allow the starters to go deep into games.
We started the season with 12 pitchers because we weren't sure how the back of the rotation (Danks, Floyd, Contreras) would hold up. But with them pitching well thus far (despite recent struggles), the bullpen is pretty rested and the 12th pitcher is unnecessary. I think Russell will be the odd man out, mostly because I don't like sending any of the offensive bench guys down right now.

jabrch
06-25-2008, 10:24 AM
I had no problem polaying Wise over BA sometimes. But I am not sure that based on 20 ABs from Wise I'd send BA down.

Let's not overreact. The Wise Sucks crap was silly. So is the demote BA or cut Juan to keep Wise around.

Let's just be a bit more mellow and a bit less reactionary?

oeo
06-25-2008, 10:26 AM
He's hardly the only player on this team that swings at balls way out of the zone. That's almost a requirement - it's "aggressive."

Some veterans occasionally swinging out of the zone (guys that have proven they can hit in this league) is not an excuse for Brian. Two strikes on him, breaking stuff off the outside corner, and it's a given that he will bite.

He hasn't been given a long stretch of unfettered opportunity since the first 1/2 of 06. His defense is also exceptional. (which counts for everyone else except him).Some veterans occassionally swinging out of the zone is not an excuse for Brian. Two strikes on him, breaking stuff off the outside corner, and it's a given that he will bite.

And when you can't hit in this league, you're not going to survive. Yes his defense is good, which makes him a fine fourth outfielder, but you have to do more than play good defense. You have to hit some, too.

How can we consider dumping him with both Uribe and Ozuna on this team?I never said that. I said I wanted to keep him around as our fourth outfielder. The only problem I have with Brian Anderson, is not the guy himself, it's the people around here that still think he's going to be an All Star player. He shouldn't start...he doesn't have the bat to start everyday in this league. Also, if anything, sending him down would be temporary to ride Wise's hot streak. If I had it my way, Uribe would have been gone a long time ago.

Ramirez has a lot of upside, but it's liable to be stunted severely if he can't learn to lay off bad pitches. Williams needs to find a hitting coach to work with Ramirez.Ramirez will be perfectly fine. He's improved dramatically on his breaking ball and strike zone recognition as the year has gone on. I see no reason that will not continue.

palehozenychicty
06-25-2008, 10:29 AM
I have no problem keeping one of the veterans(Uribe/Ozuna) on the team. It's really hard to realize any of that upside potential when you are getting a few AB's a week and brought in primarily to play defense. URibe has responded well being brough off the bench, and plays good D. That's what we need. If Wise is here Pablo's speed is not needed.

I feel you on the young guys, but at some point you have to find out. I'm just tired of this team scraping for crap from the waiver wire. Hopefully that changes in the future with better drafts.

Uribe off the bench is no problem. He just isn't a starter. Pablo's speed has been nonexistent this year. As we know, his defense is atrocious and bat is meh. Pablo should be the odd man out, but who knows?

The Dude
06-25-2008, 10:52 AM
For the love of God just cut Pablo Ozuna.

Yeah I've grown tired of his streaky defense and lack of hitting.

Carolina Kenny
06-25-2008, 10:54 AM
The Sox will be biding their time until Paulie gets back. There are several different scenerio's which are all valid.

Keep in mind that the Sox do have some players who are a injury risk including:

Konerko-the oblique can be hard to come back from
Thome-history of back problems
Crede-history of back problems

I feel that the Sox will wait as long as possible to make a decision. Because top infield defense is a priority over top outfield defense, it would seem that they will try to move BA if they are in the win this year mode and Wise continues his ascent into the after 30 Hall of Late Bloomers Fame.

One can only guess, but my guess would be that Prufundo and Ozuna hangs around and either Wise or BA goes elsewhere. Purfundo and Ozuna gives Oz the most lineup flexiblilty although a lineup featuring Uribe and Ozuna at the same time makes me queasy.

Tragg
06-25-2008, 10:58 AM
Ramirez will be perfectly fine. He's improved dramatically on his breaking ball and strike zone recognition as the year has gone on. I see no reason that will not continue.
An OBP of .311 and a walk rate of around 4% suggest that he needs a lot of work on plate patience. And I doubt he gets a lot of help in that area from this field staff.

He's got a lot of promise - 10 doubles already. A lot of promise.

kittle42
06-25-2008, 11:11 AM
Oh and just to get this party really kicking... For all the talk about Wise being a journeyman minor leaguer, he has less AB in the majors than BA.

In his best season for both PT and numbers he put up an OPS 70 points higher than BA's best effort prior to this year.

I agree that sending down Russel is the best option, but maybe Wise is simply a late bloomer...

We all know that Wise needs at least 1,000 major league ABs before he can be evaluated! :D:

TomBradley72
06-25-2008, 11:19 AM
NO!

NO!

YES!

Thome's making nearly $17 million to do what exactly?!?! In fact, he should make the decision easy by hanging it up himself like right when PK returns! Wise can have his roster space.

I was thinking the same thing...but would Ozzie/KW ever really make this move? For overall speed/defense...I'd like to be able to stick with Wise/Anderson in CF. W/Crede's (and Fields) health issues, it would be nice to have Uribe as insurance at 3rd. Ozuna is hitting ~.300 and is a nice utility guy/pinch runner to have around. Swisher has looked pretty good defensively at 1st base and is hitting .297 over the past 30 days. But Thome might finally be coming around (.294 over the past 30 days).

Put all that together....I think it's time to lose the 12th pitcher.

It's Time
06-25-2008, 11:28 AM
Whatever the Sox do, it had better involve Wise staying up here. That said, is he out of options?

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 11:34 AM
Dump Thome.
YES!

Thome's making nearly $17 million to do what exactly?!?! In fact, he should make the decision easy by hanging it up himself like right when PK returns! Wise can have his roster space.

Well if he doesn't improve at all, he's on a pace for:
29 doubles
31 HR
91 BB
85 RBI
85 runs

That's not his career norms, but it's hardly something to simply throw away.

In addition, JT just posted his best month of the year and seems to be heating up, so those numbers above might end up being the minimum and jump significantly as JT goes on a second half tear.

Oh and the Sox are paying him ~$7M the rest is being paid by the Phillies last time I checked.

voodoochile
06-25-2008, 11:38 AM
With 2 home runs. It's also as good as most of the veterans on the team over that period. But that's the Guillen philosophy - young players with upside get 2 weeks (usually 2 days) to show him something. Hack veterans with ceiling of mediocre get wheeled out there day after day and game after game; and when they produce garbage, Ozzie will say they're a "coach on the field" or the equivalent of a ".400 hitter". When it comes to 2B, Ozzie says he's all about defense; but in the far more important defensive position of CF, he isn't. It's no wonder, young offensive players aren't developed. The only young player that impressed this field staff is owens and to a lesser extent ramirez. They wanted nothing to do with Sweeney, had Quentin deep down on the depth chart, etc.

I'd argue C, SS, 2B and 3B are all more important defensive positions than CF simply based on number of chances.

TomBradley72
06-25-2008, 11:48 AM
Yeah I've grown tired of his streaky defense and lack of hitting.

He just had a 3 hit game last week vs. Pittsburgh. His average is right around .300.

TomBradley72
06-25-2008, 11:50 AM
Whatever the Sox do, it had better involve Wise staying up here. That said, is he out of options?

He has to clear waivers just like last time he was sent down. Except this time he might draw some interest.

Carolina Kenny
06-25-2008, 11:55 AM
He has to clear waivers just like last time he was sent down. Except this time he might draw some interest.

Even the Flubs could use Wise.

JB98
06-25-2008, 01:06 PM
I just want to point out that cutting Thome is a stupid idea. Even though he's in decline, he's still a feared hitter. Without him, we wouldn't have a left-handed power presence in the middle of the lineup.

Even in a down year, Thome still provides more production than Dirty .230.

jabrch
06-25-2008, 01:24 PM
Well if he doesn't improve at all, he's on a pace for:
29 doubles
31 HR
91 BB
85 RBI
85 runs

That's not his career norms, but it's hardly something to simply throw away.

In addition, JT just posted his best month of the year and seems to be heating up, so those numbers above might end up being the minimum and jump significantly as JT goes on a second half tear.

Oh and the Sox are paying him ~$7M the rest is being paid by the Phillies last time I checked.

You and your damn facts....

jdm2662
06-25-2008, 01:34 PM
Let's not get too excited yet, people. Yes, he's had a nice three games, but it's only three games. Let's see if he can keep it up. If he does, more power to him. It would be nice to see some balance in the line-up.

balke
06-25-2008, 01:56 PM
Haha, I wonder what people will say 5-10 games from now about Wise.

2906
06-25-2008, 01:57 PM
Interesting discussion here.

Guillen said he wants to keep 12 pitchers. It might seem a luxury at times but a blowout and an extra inning game and all of a sudden you're caught short. So assuming he doesn't change his mind, going back to 11 won't happen.

Konerko comes back, which'll put one of Wise, Anderson, Uribe, or Ozuna on the bubble barring anything unforeseen (DL stint for someone, trade).

If the White Sox can't find a market for Uribe or Ozuna and don't want to lose them, they'll look at who they can send down and call up easily without waivers.

The only guy out of the four with options left is Brian.

jabrch
06-25-2008, 02:07 PM
Haha, I wonder what people will say 5-10 games from now about Wise.

Exactly...Let's not overreact to a few games anymore than people overreacted when Wise got a start or two...

EndemicSox
06-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Wise versus Uribe with the bat is a wash...and like an earlier post stated, the staff will probably do with infield D or outfield D. Wise has been a nice surprise, but he is what his minor league numbers suggest he is...

bigdommer
06-25-2008, 03:13 PM
.421, .357, .343, .294

The 30 day averages for Ozuna, Uribe, Ramirez, and Thome...all guys that have been dumped on in this post (thanks for the idea Tom Bradley). It would be nice is these numbers were posted right below the yearly numbers. What you did April 1st has no bearing on what you will do today.

I can't believe we're talking about cutting a guy (Thome) who has a 30 day split of .294/.402/.618.

nug0hs
06-25-2008, 03:16 PM
I'm surprised we havent had any "Cut Uribe, Bring Up Gordon Beckham" threads yet!

cws05champ
06-25-2008, 03:20 PM
I'm surprised we havent had any "Cut Uribe, Bring Up Gordon Beckham" threads yet!
IF Gordon Beckham were not still playing in the CWS and yet to sign a contract with the Sox...there would be.

jabrch
06-25-2008, 03:39 PM
I can't believe we're talking about cutting a guy (Thome) who has a 30 day split of .294/.402/.618.

I can believe we are talking about that. Why should you be surprised that a bunch of posters at WSI overreact to a bad few months by one player and propose cutting him? That's standard operating procedure here.

Jaffar
06-25-2008, 03:39 PM
IF Gordon Beckham were not still playing in the CWS and yet to sign a contract with the Sox...there would be.

If/when they sign him don't be surprised to threads like that in september.

jabrch
06-25-2008, 03:50 PM
If/when they sign him don't be surprised to threads like that in september.

And then threads to cut him for being a hacker two days later...

Then threads demanding he be traded for a bag of mini-Churros.

Then threads comparing how poor he is compared to Aaron Rowand.

Jerko
06-25-2008, 04:15 PM
Thome's presence helped us get a run last night IMO. When Ramirez was batting with 2 outs, a guy on 3rd, and the pitcher's spot up next, LA pitched to Ramirez, knowing that Thome could pinch hit. Ramirez got the hit and RBI.

It's Dankerific
06-25-2008, 04:21 PM
Thome's presence helped us get a run last night IMO. When Ramirez was batting with 2 outs, a guy on 3rd, and the pitcher's spot up next, LA pitched to Ramirez, knowing that Thome could pinch hit. Ramirez got the hit and RBI.

With the Sox already up 5-1 and MB Cruising? Doubtful.

ArkanSox
06-25-2008, 04:33 PM
I think that they'll keep Uribe around for defensive support and send Wise down. The lefty Wise has done a nice job, even going with the pitch and hitting to left last night, but if he doesn't clear waivers, so it goes. We need BA on the team for defense purposes too, so Pablo seems to be the only other option besides Wise, which probably makes more sense, but I've always gotten the feeling that Oz likes having Pablo around.

Tragg
06-25-2008, 10:44 PM
I'd argue C, SS, 2B and 3B are all more important defensive positions than CF simply based on number of chances. C, SS are. 3B is, but it's a different egg.
It's easy to find a competent fielding 2B; and great fielding 2Bmen play shortstop. Take uribe - his strength is his arm and release- the value isn't nearly as great at 2nd; the number of chances you get where you need his arm is slight. On the other hand, you get his hitting 4-5 times a night. I never had an objection to Uribe at SS (he appeared to be sloughing off last year, but still better than manY).

The other thing about CF is the harm from bad defense is greater. If a SS doesn't get a ball, you have a single; if a CF misses it, it costs you much more.

gosox41
06-25-2008, 11:21 PM
Who else thinks we should keep Wise on the roster when Paulie gets off the DL and cut ties with Juan. It's better than making Juan sit on the bench a lot. Sure he's been getting it done off the bench, but Wise has been very impressive during his stint here.


He's been impressive, but it's like 20 at bats. I'm not saying he's worse then Uribe. But it's 20 freaking at bats for a career minor leaguer.