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View Full Version : *Official* What do we have to do to win a game? Post Game Thread


Pear-Zin-Ski
06-21-2008, 04:01 PM
Offense was good enough to win....

Pitching was an utter ****ing fail....

HangWiffum
06-21-2008, 04:02 PM
Offense was good enough to win....

Pitching was an utter ****ing fail....

offense sucked. end of story.

soltrain21
06-21-2008, 04:02 PM
I don't care we lost to the Cubs. Whatever, that is fine. The biggest problem is that we've lost 8 straight games on the road. That is an issue.

chisoxfanatic
06-21-2008, 04:02 PM
Offense was good enough to win....

Contreras was an utter ****ing fail....
Correction. The rest of the pitching was "there." Contreras just didn't have his forkball.

whitesox901
06-21-2008, 04:03 PM
Offense was good enough to win....

Pitching was an utter ****ing fail....

Cubs are steller at home I guess, get em tommarow try to avoid sweep

Cuck the Fubs
06-21-2008, 04:03 PM
don't forget about that stellar hitting as well.

If you lead the majors in ERA, I'm thinking 7 runs should be more than enough to win no? :scratch:

soxcrazy49
06-21-2008, 04:03 PM
Ozzie handed them the game yesterday (takes out Danks when he's cruising with the lead to roll the dice on 3 relievers to finish the game against their best hitters of a good offense), and he has completely changed the momentum. He woke them up. It was going opposite directions, we had won 3 straight, they had lost 3 straight, we had the lead, and bam, one stupid move and he handed them the series

Uncle_Patrick
06-21-2008, 04:04 PM
Outside of the 4th inning, it wasn't too bad. Unfortunately, the 4th inning happened, so that game sucked. The Sox look horrible on the road lately. What's wrong with Jose?

hawkjt
06-21-2008, 04:05 PM
Jose is getting that summer slump look about him lately. His velocity was good but his command was spotty and his splitter was bad.

Long term, I am now concerned about our pitching...the hitting is now ok.

soxcrazy49
06-21-2008, 04:05 PM
And stop with this lame 'who cares if its the Cubs, it's just another game', etc, you're just saying that because we lost, the players AREN'T ROBOTS, they're out there, they feel this atmosphere, they see themselves failing against what was supposed to be a 'test'. This is nothing like a game against Baltimore, just ask any player in that damn clubhouse. That matters more then what you think of the game when you're looking up the statistical implications of the result of the game

Cuck the Fubs
06-21-2008, 04:05 PM
That god damn 9 run inning killed us...:angry:

MetroPD
06-21-2008, 04:06 PM
What do we have to do to win? How about keep hot pitchers in the game until they hit 100 or so pitches, and pull out pitchers who are serving up turkeys.

It's Time
06-21-2008, 04:06 PM
I never thought I'd see the day when the Cubs owned the Sox. I am seeing it the last few years.

This is ****ing unreal.

Tragg
06-21-2008, 04:06 PM
Yesterday, we yank a pitcher who was pitching near flawlessly with only 85 pitches. Today, we wait until 1 out, 1 walk, 4 singles, and 3 homers
in a single inning before taking out a pitcher. With that mental edge in the dugout, don't have a thing to worry about.

Mr. White Sox
06-21-2008, 04:06 PM
Outside of the 4th inning, it wasn't too bad. Unfortunately, the 4th inning happened, so that game sucked. The Sox look horrible on the road lately. What's wrong with Jose?

That makes two abomination-games in a row. Nothing more you can really say about either one; in both, the play on the field showed they didn't deserve to win. Yesterday, it was situational hitting. Today, it was starting pitching. Simple.

I like our chances tomorrow as long as Wrigley isn't a wind tunnel again.

It's Dankerific
06-21-2008, 04:06 PM
How is that a save for Wood? thats insane. he would have to give up a hit for the tying run to be at the plate. I know its within the "rules" of a save, but that can't be what they meant.

Congratulations, you didnt give up a hit, and then either 2-3 more hits or a HR.

HangWiffum
06-21-2008, 04:07 PM
at least we're still in first place?

hawkjt
06-21-2008, 04:07 PM
Ozzie handed them the game yesterday (takes out Danks when he's cruising with the lead to roll the dice on 3 relievers to finish the game against their best hitters of a good offense), and he has completely changed the momentum. He woke them up. It was going opposite directions, we had won 3 straight, they had lost 3 straight, we had the lead, and bam, one stupid move and he handed them the series

That is what it looks like,no doubt.
I did not like that move but I can see how ozzie could go that way.
But in the end...it was a move that backfired...it happens.

Sox pitchers have given up 7-8 homers in two games.

pagansoxfan
06-21-2008, 04:08 PM
how many days til hockey season?

Jerko
06-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Dempster unbeaten at home and he goes tomorrow. Watch that be the game we win.

Harry Potter
06-21-2008, 04:08 PM
I am taking a hypocritical stance to this game. In years past, I would obsess over these 6 games like no other. Even though my phone is blowing up at the moment from gloating Cubs fans, I think I'd be more upset if these losses were against Minnesota or Detroit.

But our poor road-streak is worrysome at the moment...

Tragg
06-21-2008, 04:09 PM
at least we're still in first place?
That's right - I almost forgot yesterday's lesson - although we've lost 1.5 games in the standings, these games don't matter.

Newsflash: if we lose to the cubs and the twins beat arizona, it's the same effect as losing to the twins.

It's Dankerific
06-21-2008, 04:09 PM
I am taking a hypocritical stance to this game. In years past, I would obsess over these 6 games like no other. Even though my phone is blowing up at the moment from gloating Cubs fans, I think I'd be more upset if these losses were against Minnesota or Detroit.

But our poor road-streak is worrysome at the moment...

I think its worrisome that we're a HR hitting team thats getting our asses handed to us by the other team hitting HR in their sandbox field.

SpartanSoxFan
06-21-2008, 04:10 PM
If the Sox have any sort of pride in themselves whatsoever, they will find a way to win tomorrow night and avoid the embarrassment of a sweep on a national stage. Otherwise, I'll be sporting this look at work on Monday...:anon:

hawkjt
06-21-2008, 04:10 PM
Maybe we need a nite game to stop the cubs...anything...save some face tomorrow cubs.

It's Dankerific
06-21-2008, 04:10 PM
That's right - I almost forgot yesterday's lesson - although we've lost 1.5 games in the standings, these games don't matter.

Don't go down that road, if you criticize the team or the manager or a player you're not a good fan. (Except for that one player that its ok to beat on..)

Uncle_Patrick
06-21-2008, 04:11 PM
Ozzie handed them the game yesterday (takes out Danks when he's cruising with the lead to roll the dice on 3 relievers to finish the game against their best hitters of a good offense), and he has completely changed the momentum. He woke them up. It was going opposite directions, we had won 3 straight, they had lost 3 straight, we had the lead, and bam, one stupid move and he handed them the series

Let's not forget that the Cubs have been virtually unbeatable at home and the Sox have sucked on the road. We beat the hell out of KC and the Twins at the Cell only to get swept at Detroit. Now, after pounding on the Pirates, we're losing again on the road. I see an unfortunate trend developing. The Cubs had their first 3 game losing streak of the year and two of those 3 were close games. I don't think there was that much of a momentum change.

Cuck the Fubs
06-21-2008, 04:11 PM
Maybe we need a nite game to stop the cubs...anything...save some face tomorrow SOX.

Fixed it for ya :wink:

Sox
06-21-2008, 04:16 PM
And stop with this lame 'who cares if its the Cubs, it's just another game', etc, you're just saying that because we lost, the players AREN'T ROBOTS, they're out there, they feel this atmosphere, they see themselves failing against what was supposed to be a 'test'. This is nothing like a game against Baltimore, just ask any player in that damn clubhouse. That matters more then what you think of the game when you're looking up the statistical implications of the result of the game

I have a hard time seeing this team lose to anyone but when its the Cubs.....It just grinds my gears....I'm sick of losing....especially an 8 gamer like this streak has been.....grrrrrrrr:angry:

CubKilla
06-21-2008, 04:20 PM
How is that a save for Wood? thats insane. he would have to give up a hit for the tying run to be at the plate. I know its within the "rules" of a save, but that can't be what they meant.

Congratulations, you didnt give up a hit, and then either 2-3 more hits or a HR.

Tying run on deck = save

Ozzie dropped the ball two days in a row now. Take Danks out who's cruising but leave Jose the T-Ball stand in to get shelled.

I see now why I could never manage a MLB team. I'd have done the opposite of Ozzie. Oh well.....

southsideirish71
06-21-2008, 04:21 PM
Why exactly didn't a pitching coach come out, to say give the bullpen time to warm up and give Jose a breather. We let him get destroyed without even a whimper.

Soxfest
06-21-2008, 04:21 PM
Watching these idiots sing Go Cubs Go no wonder they have not won in 100 years! http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/lolhitting.gif http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/gosoxretro.gif

CubsfansareDRUNK
06-21-2008, 04:21 PM
I hate it when the Sox loose on Shabbas!!

tony1972
06-21-2008, 04:21 PM
Offense was good enough to win....

Pitching was an utter ****ing fail....

The Sox didn't lose...Contreras lost this game (and Ozzie for wasting time getting mad at the ump while he let Contreas stay out there and completely fall apart)...

Blueprint1
06-21-2008, 04:21 PM
That fourth inning went on forever. I am glad I am not going tomorrow. We suck on the road. If the Twins win tonight the lead will only be 2.5 games. You have to win games on the road.

CubsfansareDRUNK
06-21-2008, 04:22 PM
Shomer ****ing shabbas.

Cuck the Fubs
06-21-2008, 04:24 PM
Watching these idiots sing Go Cubs Go no wonder they have not won in 100 years! http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/lolhitting.gif http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/gosoxretro.gif

I hate that ****ing song :angry::angry::angry:

Tragg
06-21-2008, 04:24 PM
Tying run on deck = save

Ozzie dropped the ball two days in a row now. Take Danks out who's cruising but leave Jose the T-Ball stand in to get shelled.


The contrast is absolutely striking; but it's also an accurate portrayal of Ozzie Guillen as manager.

Sox
06-21-2008, 04:25 PM
Watching these idiots sing Go Cubs Go no wonder they have not won in 100 years! http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/lolhitting.gif http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/gosoxretro.gif

My thought was since when do the Cubs and their fans think that their the American League version of the Red Sawks with their version of "Sweet Caroline." :rolleyes: Your right no wonder they haven't won a WS in a 100 years.......
Stinking Cubs grrrrrrrrrr:angry:

October26
06-21-2008, 04:28 PM
Let's not forget that the Cubs have been virtually unbeatable at home and the Sox have sucked on the road. We beat the hell out of KC and the Twins at the Cell only to get swept at Detroit. Now, after pounding on the Pirates, we're losing again on the road. I see an unfortunate trend developing. The Cubs had their first 3 game losing streak of the year and two of those 3 were close games. I don't think there was that much of a momentum change.

Right on! It seems like the Cubs came home to Wrigley to resume their winning ways - and the Sox go on the road and go right back to losing. I was so happy just two days ago - after the Sox swept the Pirates at home and now I'm searching for positive words. Guess I should follow my own advice and remind myself that the baseball season is a long season, huh? It's just that this one stings, because we got beat by the Cubs and also because the Twins are playing so well and Arizona is not right now.

Best the Sox can do now is avoid the sweep tomorrow. Thank God for WSI, at least I can come here and hang out with Sox fans.

Woofer
06-21-2008, 04:28 PM
I feel sorry for Chris Rongey. I also feel sorry for myself, and all of us Sox fans. Yesterday was just a tough loss, today is total embarrassment.:angry:

white sox bill
06-21-2008, 04:28 PM
If there is a God in heaven, we will win Sun PM, then take 2 of 3 next weekend at the Cell

DSpivack
06-21-2008, 04:29 PM
Shomer ****ing shabbas.

:rolling:

I usually prefer Shabbat Shalom, mother****er.

Cuck the Fubs
06-21-2008, 04:30 PM
Tell ya what.....we lost 2 to the Cubs and I have yet to get one phone call,text or e mail yet.

Luckily my freinds aren't total tools....course I didn't beat them up in 05' either.

Jerome
06-21-2008, 04:30 PM
I'm an Ozzie fan and thought taking out Danks early yesterday was a good call, but you have to scratch your head at him leaving Jose in for 9 runs in an inning to score. There's no excuse for that, I don't care if the pitcher spot was due up next. That game was lost right then. Danks gets the early hook when he's dealing and the next day Jose gets left in far too long? :scratch: Ozzie just can't win.

Sox
06-21-2008, 04:31 PM
Right on! It seems like the Cubs came home to Wrigley to resume their winning ways - and the Sox go on the road and go right back to losing. I was so happy just two days ago - after the Sox swept the Pirates at home and now I'm searching for positive words. Guess I should follow my own advice and remind myself that the baseball season is a long season, huh? It's just that this one stings, because we got beat by the Cubs and also because the Twins are playing so well and Arizona is not right now.

Best the Sox can do now is avoid the sweep tomorrow. Thank God for WSI, at least I can come here and hang out with Sox fans.

Agree and least Sox Fans can come here and vent to other Sox fans.....

Cuck the Fubs
06-21-2008, 04:31 PM
I'm an Ozzie fan and thought taking out Danks early yesterday was a good call, but you have to scratch your head at him leaving Jose in for 9 runs in an inning to score. There's no excuse for that, I don't care if the pitcher spot was due up next. That game was lost right then. Danks gets the early hook when he's dealing and the next day Jose gets left in far too long? :scratch: Ozzie just can't win.

Jose got lit up so fast, Ozzie had no chance to slow it down.....this isn't his fault.

October26
06-21-2008, 04:32 PM
Tell ya what.....we lost 2 to the Cubs and I have yet to get one phone call,text or e mail yet.

Luckily my freinds aren't total tools....course I didn't beat them up in 05' either.


Me either. I'm not one to harass friends over these games and that's why I'm not getting crap right now.

scarsofthumper
06-21-2008, 04:32 PM
We need to win tomorrow to get a bit of momentum heading into Los Angeles, a team who I think we should take easily, especially since they've been battling injuries as well. Let's just hope Javy can shake off the last couple starts and try to get a solid outing against Dempster.

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 04:32 PM
Contreras certainly deserved the L for that meltdown. Once he gave up those first two gopher balls in the 4th I started having flashbacks to that game I saw in Yankee Stadium last July (NIU Alumni Night) where he stunk it up big time. And once again we strand a leadoff double, but I guess we should be grateful we at least advanced him to third this time. :rolleyes:

Aside from that, at least we were able to score a couple runs on base hits (a little late, but at least they did it); Adam Russell pitched pretty decent (as did Masset, although he seemed to get a little wild and eventually gave up a run), and how about another heads-up AJ play getting Marquis at first after he showed forward progression towards second base and never went back to first?

Well that totally sucked, but Contreras so deserved that L hung on him. Let's salvage this beeyotch tomorrow night.

Cuck the Fubs
06-21-2008, 04:33 PM
Me either. I'm not one to harass friends over these games and that's why I'm not getting crap right now.

I'll get a beat down for saying it, but if we don't win it this year, let the Cubs win it.

Not all their fans are assbags :wink:

BainesHOF
06-21-2008, 04:35 PM
I'm stunned at Ozzie's managing the past two games. Today it was obvious that Contreras didn't have his forkball. Why did Ozzie keep him in for so long to get absolutely shelled? What was he waiting for, a 5-run homer?

It was infuriating to watch Ozzie hang Conteras out to dry. I don't get it. Danks was dominating yesterday and Ozzie pulls him, and Contreras gets bombed and Ozzie leaves him in.

You could make an argument for taking out Danks when Ozzie did yesterday, but what was the reason for letting Contreras get bombed today? We have a good bullpen. Masset is a good long reliever. Put Masset in and give the team a chance to win the game!

Everyone watching the game knew it was time to take Contreras out. Everyone that is except Ozzie.

CubKilla
06-21-2008, 04:36 PM
I'm an Ozzie fan and thought taking out Danks early yesterday was a good call.....

I don't care if you're 7th-8th & 9th inning pitcher's work out 9 out of every 10 games, how much you've spent to improve a BP in a given year, pitch count, etc., you just don't take a guy out that was cruising like Danks was until he, at the very least, shows some type of tiring, control issue, consecutive hits surrendered, etc.

Ozzie screwed up yesterday. End of story.

cheezheadsoxfan
06-21-2008, 04:36 PM
I'm trying desperately to find a silver lining. Help!!

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 04:36 PM
I am taking a hypocritical stance to this game. In years past, I would obsess over these 6 games like no other. Even though my phone is blowing up at the moment from gloating Cubs fans, I think I'd be more upset if these losses were against Minnesota or Detroit.

But our poor road-streak is worrysome at the moment...

I'm getting tired of everyone saying how "meaningless" these interleague games are. Bottom line, these games count towards the standings and can be just as damaging if they allow Minnesota to creep closer.

Sox
06-21-2008, 04:36 PM
One of things that really bothers me about this game is the White Sox left 7 men stranded on the bases.........:angry: can't do that and expect to win games, especially the crucial ones and its painfully apparent to me that all Sox games are crucial to holding the lead in the division...

JB98
06-21-2008, 04:37 PM
We can't afford to get into a slugfest with the Cubs. Although we have a lot of power in our lineup, our offensive attack is not as strong as theirs overall. In order to beat them, we have to pitch well.

Contreras was awful today. It seemed like he couldn't get his forkball called for a strike. So, he just kind of threw up his hands and started throwing a bunch of get-me-over pitches. You just can't do that against this Cubs lineup. They'll kill you.

Uncle_Patrick
06-21-2008, 04:37 PM
One of things that really bothers me about this game is the White Sox left 7 men stranded on the bases.........:angry: can't do that and expect to win games, especially the crucial ones and its painfully apparent to me that all Sox games are crucial to holding the lead in the division...

That's, unfortunately, a symptom of the White Sox all or nothing offense this year.

The Immigrant
06-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Did Contreras get served with divorce papers again?

Blah blah blah...just another loss, who cares if it's the Cubs, we're still in first place, blah blah blah.

I'm going tomorrow night and may need to wear a paper bag at the end.

RockJock07
06-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Why exactly didn't a pitching coach come out, to say give the bullpen time to warm up and give Jose a breather. We let him get destroyed without even a whimper.

It's very frustrating that we have lost these two past games because of our pitching. You can probably count on one hand the amount of times that our pitching has failed so badly that it takes us out of the game early. I'll be the first to say that losing to the cubs blows, it's equal to losing to any other team, Twins or Royals.

This game was winable despite errors made by ozzie and the staff. We miss chances to come back in the 8th and 9th today. Probably the most frustrating thing was watching AJ in the 9th swinging away at 3 of the 4 pitches he saw when we needed baserunners. Awful......

Losing 8 straight on the road is bad, going out to the west coast isn't going to help. This team is so hot and cold its not even funny anymore.

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 04:38 PM
:rolling:

I usually prefer Shabbat Shalom, mother****er.



Man-o-Manischewitz! :D:

TomParrish79
06-21-2008, 04:41 PM
http://www.sandraohisugly.com/quiz/7.jpg
Throws the ball.... Hits the ball....Catches The Ball!!!!

white sox bill
06-21-2008, 04:43 PM
Call me superstious or whatever, but the trash talking Oz,KW and Danksy did Friday bit us...karma's a behhhhhh!

TDog
06-21-2008, 04:44 PM
I don't care we lost to the Cubs. Whatever, that is fine. The biggest problem is that we've lost 8 straight games on the road. That is an issue.

It would be a bigger issue if the team was consistent in the factors that led to those losses. In many of the games, the offense has been good enough to win. It was good enough Friday and today. It was good enough in one of the Detroit games. Today the Sox were a bit unlucky, which is not to say that the Cubs were lucky to score nine runs in the fourth or even that the Cubs were lucky to win. I'm not blaming the game on bad calls. I'm stuck in McCormick Place where I can't even get AM radio reception.

It was unfortunate that Contreras lost it in a hurry. The misfortune was compounded by Contreras being due to lead off the next inning. In an American League game, it would be a matter of getting Masset ready at the first hint that things were going to get out of hand. The first two pitches in the fourth were hit out for home runs and the third was hit for an out. That isn't enough warning to get someone ready, and that certainly isn't enough time to get someone ready. With Contreras scheduled to hit, the only way you can bring Masset in would be to double-switch him, and the Sox don't really have a bench deep enough to do that. You wouldn't want to lead off with Uribe and bat Masset in Ramirez' space. I imagine you could lead off with Anderson and bat Masset in Wise's space, but even with the double switch, you may not save on pinch hitters because the pitcher's spot in the order will come up quicker the next time through the lineup.

Essentially, you have a choice between getting Contreras through the inning with minimal damage and putting in a short reliever to get one or two important outs. As quickly as things happened, there was little time to warm anyone up, and yanking him would have required warming two guys up in the fourth, with the two-inning guy facing the Cubs in the fifth.

It would be easier to manage if you could look 15 minutes, or sometimes five minutes into the future, to see what you should have done. I thought Friday that bringing in Dotel was a good idea because Danks generally loses his effectiveness after six no matter his pitch count because he's not as effective that next time through the order. Really, the only way we could know if bringing in Dotel was the wrong decision would be to look at how other decisions came out in parallel universes. Maybe Danks gave up four including a run with Dotel on the mound. (And maybe there isn't any such thing as parallel universes.) Today even the people who worship at the pitch count altar wouldn't have predicted Contreras losing it at the worst possible time.

People who want to complain about me making excuses because I used the words "unlucky" and "unfortunate" should work on your reading comprehension. People who let the Sox losing specifically to the Cubs affect their sense of personal worth should get their priorities in order. Some of you act like the Sox losing was a personal insult. Even if the Cubs and Sox face each other in October, beating the Cubs would mean nothing more in June than beating the Pirates. It wouldn't even affect home-field advantage in the World Series.

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 04:45 PM
Call me superstious or whatever, but the trash talking Oz,KW and Danksy did Friday bit us...karma's a behhhhhh!


At least Danks held up his end of the bargain yesterday, sure wasn't his fault he was saddled with the no-decision, but I digress...

ms620
06-21-2008, 04:48 PM
We can't afford to get into a slugfest with the Cubs. Although we have a lot of power in our lineup, our offensive attack is not as strong as theirs overall. In order to beat them, we have to pitch well.

Contreras was awful today. It seemed like he couldn't get his forkball called for a strike. So, he just kind of threw up his hands and started throwing a bunch of get-me-over pitches. You just can't do that against this Cubs lineup. They'll kill you.

Hey JB, are you gonna defend Ozzie leaving Jose in for way too long??

Sox
06-21-2008, 04:50 PM
That's, unfortunately, a symptom of the White Sox all or nothing offense this year.

yes your assessment is so true......doesn't lessen the sting but it is still spot on.

whitesox901
06-21-2008, 04:50 PM
It was unfortunate that Contreras lost it in a hurry. The misfortune was compounded by Contreras being due to lead off the next inning. In an American League game, it would be a matter of getting Masset ready at the first hint that things were going to get out of hand. The first two pitches in the fourth were hit out for home runs and the third was hit for an out. That isn't enough warning to get someone ready, and that certainly isn't enough time to get someone ready. With Contreras scheduled to hit, the only way you can bring Masset in would be to double-switch him, and the Sox don't really have a bench deep enough to do that. You wouldn't want to lead off with Uribe and bat Masset in Ramirez' space. I imagine you could lead off with Anderson and bat Masset in Wise's space, but even with the double switch, you may not save on pinch hitters because the pitcher's spot in the order will come up quicker the next time through the lineup.

Essentially, you have a choice between getting Contreras through the inning with minimal damage and putting in a short reliever to get one or two important outs. As quickly as things happened, there was little time to warm anyone up, and yanking him would have required warming two guys up in the fourth, with the two-inning guy facing the Cubs in the fifth.


There is always at least one post on the postgame threads after a loss that always make me feal better agian! :smile:

It's Dankerific
06-21-2008, 04:53 PM
Why couldn't we at least send someone out to the mound to ask, *** Jose? are you hurt? having the poops? break a fingernail? oh, you're ok, well ,take a second and regroup big man..

ms620
06-21-2008, 04:55 PM
It would be a bigger issue if the team was consistent in the factors that led to those losses. In many of the games, the offense has been good enough to win. It was good enough Friday and today. It was good enough in one of the Detroit games. Today the Sox were a bit unlucky, which is not to say that the Cubs were lucky to score nine runs in the fourth or even that the Cubs were lucky to win. I'm not blaming the game on bad calls. I'm stuck in McCormick Place where I can't even get AM radio reception.

It was unfortunate that Contreras lost it in a hurry. The misfortune was compounded by Contreras being due to lead off the next inning. In an American League game, it would be a matter of getting Masset ready at the first hint that things were going to get out of hand. The first two pitches in the fourth were hit out for home runs and the third was hit for an out. That isn't enough warning to get someone ready, and that certainly isn't enough time to get someone ready. With Contreras scheduled to hit, the only way you can bring Masset in would be to double-switch him, and the Sox don't really have a bench deep enough to do that. You wouldn't want to lead off with Uribe and bat Masset in Ramirez' space. I imagine you could lead off with Anderson and bat Masset in Wise's space, but even with the double switch, you may not save on pinch hitters because the pitcher's spot in the order will come up quicker the next time through the lineup.

Essentially, you have a choice between getting Contreras through the inning with minimal damage and putting in a short reliever to get one or two important outs. As quickly as things happened, there was little time to warm anyone up, and yanking him would have required warming two guys up in the fourth, with the two-inning guy facing the Cubs in the fifth.

It would be easier to manage if you could look 15 minutes, or sometimes five minutes into the future, to see what you should have done. I thought Friday that bringing in Dotel was a good idea because Danks generally loses his effectiveness after six no matter his pitch count because he's not as effective that next time through the order. Really, the only way we could know if bringing in Dotel was the wrong decision would be to look at how other decisions came out in parallel universes. Maybe Danks gave up four including a run with Dotel on the mound. (And maybe there isn't any such thing as parallel universes.) Today even the people who worship at the pitch count altar wouldn't have predicted Contreras losing it at the worst possible time.

People who want to complain about me making excuses because I used the words "unlucky" and "unfortunate" should work on your reading comprehension. People who let the Sox losing specifically to the Cubs affect their sense of personal worth should get their priorities in order. Some of you act like the Sox losing was a personal insult. Even if the Cubs and Sox face each other in October, beating the Cubs would mean nothing more in June than beating the Pirates. It wouldn't even affect home-field advantage in the World Series.

With all due respect, I think the main downfall with your reasoning is you are looking too far in to the future. The game was lost in the 4th. YOu cannot let the game get out of hand. Jose from the first inning did not have his great stuff. He immediately gives up the 2 runs the sox scored in the top half. THat is a sign of a pitcher that needs to get taken out of them game. It does not matter if you need to let the pitcher hit, or use another bench player. Jose had nothing, Ozzie was either not prepared, or too stubborn to make a change.

Jerome
06-21-2008, 04:56 PM
I don't care if you're 7th-8th & 9th inning pitcher's work out 9 out of every 10 games, how much you've spent to improve a BP in a given year, pitch count, etc., you just don't take a guy out that was cruising like Danks was until he, at the very least, shows some type of tiring, control issue, consecutive hits surrendered, etc.

Ozzie screwed up yesterday. End of story.

well not a GOOD call, I certainly wanted him left in and was a little mad when he wasn't, but at least I could understand somewhat where he was coming from.

also - Cubs are doing all of this without Soriano :o:

vegyrex
06-21-2008, 04:59 PM
Call me superstious or whatever, but the trash talking Oz,KW and Danksy did Friday bit us...karma's a behhhhhh!

I have to agree. They have to stop this trash talk if they can't back it up.

PatK
06-21-2008, 04:59 PM
My only question was why not walk Ramirez (who has killed Jose) and take your chances with Edmonds?

Jose sucked.

I'm keeping my chin up and hoping we'll win tomorrow

Lip Man 1
06-21-2008, 04:59 PM
Wow...that's all I can say.

I never thought I'd see the day when the Cubs would beat the Sox 8 out of 9.

Lip

kidmccarthy
06-21-2008, 05:03 PM
If anyone really thought the cubs would just roll over with their home record, you're crazy. we almost won yesterday, and had alexei been hbp, who knows, we might have pulled one out. I like the fact that we fought back, and maybe can take a night game tomorrow. Lets just hope the twins can remember they are supposed to suck. They are whats pissing me off.

BainesHOF
06-21-2008, 05:09 PM
A couple postgame show notes:

On Comcast, Dan Plesac mocked Contreras by wrapping a towel around his neck as if he got whiplash by surrending all the home runs. He can certainly crow about the Cubs and give the Sox some grief, but picking on Contreras in such a manner was low class. Bill Melton looked like he was ready to kill Plesac. Melton quickly told Plesac that's how he looked when he pitched. Plesac is usually a class act, but not this time.

Then on the radio, Ranger once again showed a complete intolerance for anyone who wanted to criticize Ozzie. Many people were making legitimate points, but Ranger was jumping all over them and cutting them off. Then for the second game in a row he took it upon himself not to give a gift card to any of the callers. Message to Ranger: Treat the fans with more respect. Many know much more baseball than you do. I know you have a tough job after a rough loss, but deal with it. Let people make their point. You have a lot to learn so you might as well listen to them.

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 05:11 PM
A couple postgame show notes:

... Ranger once again showed a complete intolerance for anyone who wanted to criticize Ozzie. Many people were making legitimate points, but Ranger was jumping all over them and cutting them off. Then for the second game in a row he took it upon himself not to give a gift card to any of the callers. Message to Ranger: Treat the fans with more respect. Many know much more baseball than you do. I know you have a tough job after a rough loss, but deal with it. Let people make their point. You have a lot to learn so you might as well listen to them.


Very true, but to be fair Ranger's job after losses such as these has to rank right up there with walking through a minefield.

chidonez
06-21-2008, 05:14 PM
He just stopped taking calls and told a guy from Seattle never to call again. The guy in Seattle said he had seen Coop go to the mound during the 4th. I don't have cable so wasn't able to see the game, but either Farmio or Stone said that Coop had in fact visited the mound. I have no idea if it was an official visit or not. Ranger needs to chill.

Drillrod Indiana
06-21-2008, 05:15 PM
how long do you leave a guy in who is just getting hammered??????

another lead off double and the runner never advances!!!!!!!

infohawk
06-21-2008, 05:21 PM
For cryin' out loud, guys! I can't watch the game live, so I leave it up to the rest of you, and you can't even deliver a win! What gives?

Seriously, I watched it using the DVR fast forward option. I was feeling good after Wise's homer, but it was pretty short-lived. There's been one big, overriding difference so far in this series. The Sox have had two players wet the bed, while the Cubs haven't had any.

Yesterday, it was Dotel. I know that not getting Anderson over and in during the ninth inning was big, but it wouldn't have mattered if Dotel didn't give up back to back jacks to the two guys he should have been careful with. Today, Contreras was staked to a lead, and he utterly collapsed.

Generally speaking, the Sox are down 2-0 in the series because a starting pitcher and a reliever spit the bit on back-to-back days.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2008, 05:21 PM
Maybe this has some meaning maybe not... but remember Sunday when the Sox only scored one run in a bases loaded situation with Colorado?

Comcast had a dugout shot and caught Contreras shaking his head like he was totally frustrated with this team. He promptly let Colorado get that run back in the top of the 5th.

Today the Sox score two and he promptly gives a run back in the bottom of the first. I just think something is starting to go wrong for Jose, he appears frustrated and angry at something or someone.

Lip

Woofer
06-21-2008, 05:23 PM
how long do you leave a guy in who is just getting hammered??????

another lead off double and the runner never advances!!!!!!!
The answer to that question is: Forever.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2008, 05:24 PM
Radio:

I agree with you and feel for Chris. I know him well and he's agreed to a future interview with WSI but Baines makes a great point. However dumb they may be Chris is PAID to let callers speak their piece on the post game show.

As long as the caller isn't verbally drunk or is saying something racist or sexist he or she should be allowed to speak their piece.

Lip

JB98
06-21-2008, 05:26 PM
Maybe this has some meaning maybe not... but remember Sunday when the Sox only scored one run in a bases loaded situation with Colorado?

Comcast had a dugout shot and caught Contreras shaking his head like he was totally frustrated with this team. He promptly let Colorado get that run back in the top of the 5th.

Today the Sox score two and he promptly gives a run back in the bottom of the first. I just think something is starting to go wrong for Jose, he appears frustrated and angry at something or someone.

Lip

The last two times out, Contreras has given up runs the half inning after the Sox scored for him every time. I checked the box from the Colorado game just to make sure my memory is correct.

As the bottom of the fourth started, I was thinking to myself, "This is a key inning for Jose." In fact, I might have said that aloud to no one in particular. It went south very, very quickly.

Jose had a great run of about six outstanding starts. He's obviously hit a rough patch here where his offspeed stuff isn't working for him.

BainesHOF
06-21-2008, 05:29 PM
Radio:

I agree with you and feel for Chris. I know him well and he's agreed to a future interview with WSI but Baines makes a great point. However dumb they may be Chris is PAID to let callers speak their piece on the post game show.

I am NOT saying all the callers were dumb. Some were making good points, but Ranger didn't want to listen to anyone being critical.

SpartanSoxFan
06-21-2008, 05:32 PM
A couple postgame show notes:

On Comcast, Dan Plesac mocked Contreras by wrapping a towel around his neck as if he got whiplash by surrending all the home runs. He can certainly crow about the Cubs and give the Sox some grief, but picking on Contreras in such a manner was low class. Bill Melton looked like he was ready to kill Plesac. Melton quickly told Plesac that's how he looked when he pitched. Plesac is usually a class act, but not this time.

Melton would have snapped Plesac's chicken neck with little difficulty. Plesac is nothing more than another one of those unbiased Flubbie-blue mediots employed in this city.

infohawk
06-21-2008, 05:32 PM
Someone mentioned the Twins earlier. I'd admit to being surprised if they won more than 84 games or so.

I think that the Sox are about an 88-90 win club. Right now they are 8 games above .500, which would put them on pace to win around 90. Even with a hot streak, I don't think they will get to 15 or 20 over and remain there. Barring injury, or a surprising trade, they'll probably average somewhere between 7 and 12 games over .500 for the rest of the season.

I think the real question is how many wins will it take to win the Central. If 88-92 will do it, the Sox have a good chance. If 94-100 is what it will take, I'm less optimistic.

cards press box
06-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Shomer ****ing shabbas.

The rug -- it tied the whole room together. You know, leaving the park today, I felt a little like the Dude being thrown out of the cab by the Eagles loving cab driver.

"I had a rough day, man and I hate the ****ing Eagles!"

(Personally, I like the Eagles but unlike the Dude, I may not be a man for my time -- at least not in Lakeview on this Saturday.)

Tragg
06-21-2008, 05:36 PM
Why couldn't we at least send someone out to the mound to ask, *** Jose? are you hurt? having the poops? break a fingernail? oh, you're ok, well ,take a second and regroup big man..
Of course they could have done that. Send AJ. Send Coop, infield huddle, send AJ again. The contrast between Contreras' handling and Danks' is Ozzie Guillen field manager 101.
1 out, 1 walk, 4 singles, 3 homers, 8 runs.

JB98
06-21-2008, 05:56 PM
With regard to the postgame callers, I think it becomes like the boy who cried wolf after awhile. Everyone screams and yells about every little thing that Ozzie does. Every ****ing loss is Ozzie's fault. Eventually, you reach a point where the legitimate criticism and the bull**** criticism all blend together and just become noise.

Before the game today, we had people here at WSI filled with rage because DeWayne Wise was in the lineup. Nevermind that Wise is a low-ball hitter and Marquis is a sinkerball pitcher. Wise hit one out today, so the move paid off. I don't see anyone here saying, "Sorry Ozzie, you were right to play Wise this afternoon."

Our manager is not infallible by any means. Yeah, I think he left Contreras in one batter too long today. But when you bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch about the same old **** every ****ing day, eventually people are just going to tune you out. I think that's where Ranger is right now. I wouldn't want his job, especially after losses to the Cubs.

Law11
06-21-2008, 06:11 PM
Glad I missed this one in its entirety.. I did run out to the car and check..
At 4-1 I thought cool.. Came back and it was 9-4 and just dropped my head.

Do I want to watch the lowlights of this or should I just watch my dvr of Everyday Italian with Giada at 10 oclock..?

TDog
06-21-2008, 06:19 PM
With all due respect, I think the main downfall with your reasoning is you are looking too far in to the future. The game was lost in the 4th. YOu cannot let the game get out of hand. Jose from the first inning did not have his great stuff. He immediately gives up the 2 runs the sox scored in the top half. THat is a sign of a pitcher that needs to get taken out of them game. It does not matter if you need to let the pitcher hit, or use another bench player. Jose had nothing, Ozzie was either not prepared, or too stubborn to make a change.

It depends on what you mean by future. If I were managing, I would have no problem bringing my stud closer into the game with the bases loaded and one out with a one run lead in the seventh because the seventh is shaping up to be the inning of decision. If my team has a 4-1 lead going into the bottom of the fourth, I don't have my bullpen warming up because to win I probably need to get one more inning out of him. I can pinch-hit for him after he gets out of the fourth. Two innings later, probably, I can pinch-hit for his replacement. Then I can bring in my closer to protect the lead in the ninth.

The future also means tomorrow, as well as July, August and September. I don't have my bullpen working lightly because you can wear out a bullpen in the bullpen even if you don't have your bullpen working in a game. Jerry Manuel wore out Kelly Wunsch in the bullpen as much as he wore him out on the mound in 2000. I might warm up the back of the bullpen on the off-chance things fall apart for a pitcher who has given up one run in three innings. I'm not warming up Masset or Logan.

The fact that Contreras was going to come out of the game for a pinch-hitter if he had gotten out of the fourth is a factor that cannot be overstated. And Masset certainly isn't going to hit in a game if the Sox are losing in the fifth. Bringing in Masset means you would use pitchers who shouldn't be pitching in such a game. And even if everyone does their job, the game could go into extra innings with no designated hitter. Guillen coached in the National League. He understands the nuanced differences in bullpen management in National League Parks. The American League didn't adopt the designated-hitter three-year experiment until I was in high school. I understand that the designated hitter not only puts a better hitter in the lineup, but it affects decisions that affect the offense.

soxpride724
06-21-2008, 06:20 PM
Glad I missed this one in its entirety.. I did run out to the car and check..
At 4-1 I thought cool.. Came back and it was 9-4 and just dropped my head.

Do I want to watch the lowlights of this or should I just watch my dvr of Everyday Italian with Giada at 10 oclock..?


You won't escape the lowlights. When I turned on the ten o'clock news last night, the Sox/Cubs game was the 3rd segment and they showed all of the Cub celebration after they beat us.
Makes me wonder how they would have done it if we had won...

chisoxfanatic
06-21-2008, 06:21 PM
I think the real question is how many wins will it take to win the Central. If 88-92 will do it, the Sox have a good chance. If 94-100 is what it will take, I'm less optimistic.
The 88-92 win interval won't be enough to be a top-2 seed in the AL playoff bracket. The sad reality of this team is that they're polar opposites when they're at home and on the road. They can't be just doing enough to win the division. They need home field advantage if they even get to play in October, or I wouldn't be feeling confident in advancing.
Do I want to watch the lowlights of this or should I just watch my dvr of Everyday Italian with Giada at 10 oclock..?
Try the later.

veeter
06-21-2008, 06:21 PM
Glad I missed this one in its entirety.. I did run out to the car and check..
At 4-1 I thought cool.. Came back and it was 9-4 and just dropped my head.

Do I want to watch the lowlights of this or should I just watch my dvr of Everyday Italian with Giada at 10 oclock..?Go with the lovely Giada. I hate these losses too, but the cubs have the magic dust floating around Wrigley this year. I fully expect to get swept tomorrow. But the Sox are a very good team, and will win the central. What would be great is if the Sox win the division with 88 wins and go farther than the cubs. It could happen.

WSox597
06-21-2008, 06:31 PM
Go with the lovely Giada. I hate these losses too, but the cubs have the magic dust floating around Wrigley this year. I fully expect to get swept tomorrow. But the Sox are a very good team, and will win the central. What would be great is if the Sox win the division with 88 wins and go farther than the cubs. It could happen.

I'd love to see that, too. Especially in their anniversary year. That would be outstanding.

But for that to happen, quite a few players need to remove their heads from their hindquarters.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2008, 06:45 PM
Two things:

Baines:

I wasn't saying that callers in particular today were "dumb" just using that in general terms.

Spartan:

On the contrary Dan is a big time Sox fan from the area who grew up following the Sox. In fact later in his career he said that he would only waive his no trade clause to go to one team and one team only...the White Sox.

Lip

veeter
06-21-2008, 06:52 PM
Jose got lit up so fast, Ozzie had no chance to slow it down.....this isn't his fault.You've got a very fresh Nick Masset in the pen. His job is long man. He already beat the cubs last year and Jose had nothing. Ozzie had a solution to the problem but decided not to try and solve it. This team has been constructed with very specific roles for everyone, but Ozzie seemingly hasn't figured out how to use the pieces. When they play in NL parks he gets outmanaged A LOT.

MCHSoxFan
06-21-2008, 06:56 PM
I don't care we lost to the Cubs. Whatever, that is fine. The biggest problem is that we've lost 8 straight games on the road. That is an issue.

You said it! **** the Cubs. I am mad we ****ing keep losing...PERIOD! Now, I just got back home. After the game was tied in the bot. of the 4th, I tore up my house, fell asleep, took a looong walk, and just finished eating a whole, full slab of BBQ ribs. Now, I am calm. Well, in a little I am gonna get some ice cream. Sorry, this is what I gotta do. Let's play GREAT against this idiots at home and get away from the AL/NL ****. I'm gone!

alohafri
06-21-2008, 06:57 PM
Dempster unbeaten at home and he goes tomorrow. Watch that be the game we win.

God, I wish I wasn't going to that game! I guess I am going incognito.

MCHSoxFan
06-21-2008, 06:58 PM
If you lead the majors in ERA, I'm thinking 7 runs should be more than enough to win no? :scratch:


Yeah! You would think. :mad:

ms620
06-21-2008, 07:00 PM
It depends on what you mean by future. If I were managing, I would have no problem bringing my stud closer into the game with the bases loaded and one out with a one run lead in the seventh because the seventh is shaping up to be the inning of decision. If my team has a 4-1 lead going into the bottom of the fourth, I don't have my bullpen warming up because to win I probably need to get one more inning out of him. I can pinch-hit for him after he gets out of the fourth. Two innings later, probably, I can pinch-hit for his replacement. Then I can bring in my closer to protect the lead in the ninth.

The future also means tomorrow, as well as July, August and September. I don't have my bullpen working lightly because you can wear out a bullpen in the bullpen even if you don't have your bullpen working in a game. Jerry Manuel wore out Kelly Wunsch in the bullpen as much as he wore him out on the mound in 2000. I might warm up the back of the bullpen on the off-chance things fall apart for a pitcher who has given up one run in three innings. I'm not warming up Masset or Logan.

The fact that Contreras was going to come out of the game for a pinch-hitter if he had gotten out of the fourth is a factor that cannot be overstated. And Masset certainly isn't going to hit in a game if the Sox are losing in the fifth. Bringing in Masset means you would use pitchers who shouldn't be pitching in such a game. And even if everyone does their job, the game could go into extra innings with no designated hitter. Guillen coached in the National League. He understands the nuanced differences in bullpen management in National League Parks. The American League didn't adopt the designated-hitter three-year experiment until I was in high school. I understand that the designated hitter not only puts a better hitter in the lineup, but it affects decisions that affect the offense.

I definately understand what you are saying. And I absolutely agree with using your closer in the 7th if that is the big spot in the game. However, I dont understand why letting Massett or Boone get 1 AB is such a big deal. At the time that I think he should have been pulled, for Fukudome's AB, they were still winning. They still might have given up the lead, but even if they gave up 3 more runs, they were still int he game, and I would rather of had Boone/Massett get 1 AB losing 6-4, than a pinch hitter losing 10-4. I agree with pullings Danks yesterday, but I think Pablo should have hit instead of Thome. I think Contreras should have been pulled earlier today. I am notr saying that Guillen never makes good moves, and that he always loses games. However, I do think he made key mistakes so far this series. That being said, when your starting pitcher has stuff like Contreras had today, you really cannot expect to win against a good team on the road. A win tomorrow night, and I will accept a 2-1 series loss. I would have liked a win, but the Cubs do not have that record, especially at home, for nothing.

alohafri
06-21-2008, 07:00 PM
Glad I missed this one in its entirety.. I did run out to the car and check..
At 4-1 I thought cool.. Came back and it was 9-4 and just dropped my head.

Do I want to watch the lowlights of this or should I just watch my dvr of Everyday Italian with Giada at 10 oclock..?

I think the Big Joe Polka Show is on tonight...

I missed the game today too...I never thought I would say this, but thank God I had to replace the battery on my Basement Watchdog (no, water got in, but it kept me occupied from about 12:15-3:00).

thomas35forever
06-21-2008, 07:05 PM
I was down in Champaign all day and tried to get a signal on my portable radio. Unfortunately when I did, I got it just when the fourth inning happened. I shut it off when it became 5-4. I probably would've sworn my head off if I saw the whole inning on TV. My Cubs fan friend loved every minute of it and texted me after the inning and the game. "Go Cubs, Sox Suck" and so forth. Just avoid the sweep tomorrow and give "Go Cubs Go" the day off.

Blueprint1
06-21-2008, 07:10 PM
Remember when Cubs fans said these games didn't matter. Well, that's when they were a terrible team in last place. Now that they are good you would think they just won the world series. The worst part is we have four more games against the worst fans in baseball. I know the annoying ones will come out in droves to the Cell with their stupid W flags.

JB98
06-21-2008, 07:14 PM
The 88-92 win interval won't be enough to be a top-2 seed in the AL playoff bracket. The sad reality of this team is that they're polar opposites when they're at home and on the road. They can't be just doing enough to win the division. They need home field advantage if they even get to play in October, or I wouldn't be feeling confident in advancing.

Right now, I'll take the 88-92 wins and the playoff spot if I can get it. I don't care if they start on the road.

They're going to have to win on the road at some point either way. You can't get a top seed in the AL playoff bracket just by winning all the home games.

thomas35forever
06-21-2008, 07:19 PM
Remember when Cubs fans said these games didn't matter. Well, that's when they were a terrible team in last place. Now that they are good you would think they just won the world series. The worst part is we have four more games against the worst fans in baseball. I know the annoying ones will come out in droves to the Cell with their stupid W flags.
The Cubs just won the WS for the second day in a row. And they'll win it every time they win a game for the rest of the year. We'll just have to see who's talking come playoff time.

Quentin08
06-21-2008, 07:19 PM
I hope the Cell isn't filled with a sea of blue next weekend! With all the hype around the Cubs in this city, I wouldn't be surprised. If it's more like 50/50 or majority Sox fans, we need to get as loud as we've ever been at the Cell. Why not chant "1908"? We had to hear "Go Cubs Go" and "AJ Sucks" at the games at Wrigley. Next weekend is our turn to get under their skin.

russ99
06-21-2008, 07:23 PM
I hope the Cell isn't filled with a sea of blue next weekend! With all the hype around the Cubs in this city, I wouldn't be surprised. If it's more like 50/50 or majority Sox fans, we need to get as loud as we've ever been at the Cell. Why not chant "1908"? We had to hear "Go Cubs Go" and "AJ Sucks" at the games at Wrigley. Next weekend is our turn to get under their skin.

Heck yeah! But let's get them tomorrow first.

Personally, I also wouldn't mind if Vasquez throws a high-hard one at Ramirez his first at bat... If we get swept, I'd rather see us go down fighting (not literally) and not roll over and die on national TV.

Also, considering how hard it is to get Cubs vs. Sox tickets at the Cell, how in the heck are all these Cubs fans getting tickets?!? I don't see them buying Sox ticket plans. Think about that before you put your extras for next weekend on Stub Hub...

thomas35forever
06-21-2008, 07:25 PM
Heck yeah!

Also, considering how hard it is to get Cubs vs. Sox tickets at the Cell, how in the heck are all these Cubs fans getting tickets?!? I don't see them buying Sox ticket plans.

Think about that before you put your extras for next weekend on Stub Hub...
I'll always remember this side note on a poster from a fan asking for tickets into the 2005 ALDS: "Do not sell tickets to Red Sox fans. We need to fill the Cell with White Sox fans."

Words to live by. Everyone think hard before giving you Cubbie fan friends your extras.

JB98
06-21-2008, 07:25 PM
Heck yeah!

Also, considering how hard it is to get Cubs vs. Sox tickets at the Cell, how in the heck are all these Cubs fans getting tickets?!? I don't see them buying Sox ticket plans.

Think about that before you put your extras for next weekend on Stub Hub...

Sox fans are selling them to Cubs fans at a tidy profit. The Cubbie fans have a lot of disposable income, and they'll pay quite a bit to see the guaranteed 2008 World Series Champions.

russ99
06-21-2008, 07:28 PM
Sox fans are selling them to Cubs fans at a tidy profit. The Cubbie fans have a lot of disposable income, and they'll pay quite a bit to see the guaranteed 2008 World Series Champions.

Sox fans have disposable income too. :D:

chisoxfanatic
06-21-2008, 07:28 PM
I'll always remember this side note on a poster from a fan asking for tickets into the 2005 ALDS: "Do not sell tickets to Red Sox fans. We need to fill the Cell with White Sox fans."
I was at both of those ALDS games against the Red Sox, and I'd say that the crowd was at least 95% White Sox fans. There were very few Red Sox fans there at all! It was wonderful!

whitesoxwin
06-21-2008, 07:32 PM
Remember when Cubs fans said these games didn't matter. Well, that's when they were a terrible team in last place. Now that they are good you would think they just won the world series. The worst part is we have four more games against the worst fans in baseball. I know the annoying ones will come out in droves to the Cell with their stupid W flags.

And don't forget that "Go Flubs go" song....jeesh and Comcast had to let us hear it (B.S.)!

Blame for todays loss: Ozzy....Jose C.' s pitches were going flat w/o any movement...he was losing it and needed to be yanked....However, some blame has to go to the Team, as they are still not executing (as most of the season) w/ runners in scoring position.

Prediction: on the bright side, the Sox will pull out a "W" tomorrow night.

As for the following weekend: It is all up to the Oz and a few select players to get their collective heads out of their collective a--es!
This team is much better than they are on current stats!

And much thanks to the segments before "The Score"'s pre-game...which makes me sick...way too much Flubie love..especially for the so-called White Sox "Flagship" radio station.

Let's go Sox!

russ99
06-21-2008, 07:38 PM
And don't forget that "Go Flubs go" song....jeesh and Comcast had to let us hear it (B.S.)!


I'm almost to the point where I think we need to make up a sappy annoying song to sing when we beat the Cubs at home, just to mock them. I like that 1908 idea... :tongue:

White_Sox_12
06-21-2008, 07:40 PM
It was a tough game today. Minus that fluke 4th inning, and the Sox would have easily won this one.

The big worry for me right now is that our pitching hasn't been that great as of late. If we are going to make a deep run this year, we are going to need the Contreras of the early part of this season...not the recent Contreras. So I hope we are seeing a bump in the road for Contreras and not a trend.

Yesterday's game was just bad luck IMO...and today's game we just had a pitcher cave in. Honestly speaking...I don't think this Cubs team is any better than us. They have just got the breaks these first two games...and they are playing at the dump, where they are very good this year.

I am looking foward to what the White Sox are going to do them next weekend at The Cell. Till then, lets get a win tomorrow and move on to LA.

hawkjt
06-21-2008, 07:48 PM
I do think that Coop went to the mound in the 4th after the second homer...but I could be wrong. Now, I am baffled by Jose...his heater was at 94mph...good. He could not throw the split for a strike...and the ump was squeezing him just enough to have him lose confidence in it. And to the cubs credit,they were not chasing it at all. They have a bunch of grinders this year at the plate.

I just think the 4th got away so quick that Ozzie just could not fathom what was happening..they were going after first pitch and boom..hit after hit.

I ,too , am concerned about our starting pitching but I also think we have to tip the hat to the best hitting team in baseball....and yea...hit Aramis Ram. in the ribs just once...the guy leans over the plate like he is in a rocking chair. As Hawk said...small park...pitch inside more...Jose should have done that today.

White_Sox_12
06-21-2008, 07:53 PM
and yea...hit Aramis Ram. in the ribs just once...the guy leans over the plate like he is in a rocking chair. As Hawk said...small park...pitch inside more...Jose should have done that today.

Not just Aramis. The way these Cubs are going after the first pitch...tomorrow night, our pitchers need to get a little close to them early in the pitch count. Make 'em think a little.....

Sox
06-21-2008, 08:16 PM
I was down in Champaign all day and tried to get a signal on my portable radio. Unfortunately when I did, I got it just when the fourth inning happened. I shut it off when it became 5-4. I probably would've sworn my head off if I saw the whole inning on TV. My Cubs fan friend loved every minute of it and texted me after the inning and the game. "Go Cubs, Sox Suck" and so forth. Just avoid the sweep tomorrow and give "Go Cubs Go" the day off.

I heard the Go Cubs Go song for the first time today and I gotta say I hate it......its almost like listening to fingernails on a blackboard....thats how irritating it is......:angry:

Brian26
06-21-2008, 08:52 PM
He just stopped taking calls and told a guy from Seattle never to call again. The guy in Seattle said he had seen Coop go to the mound during the 4th. I don't have cable so wasn't able to see the game, but either Farmio or Stone said that Coop had in fact visited the mound. I have no idea if it was an official visit or not. Ranger needs to chill.

I heard that call and thought Ranger was a little harsh with the guy. The caller had obviously been watching the game on Gameday, which noted a "coaching visit to the mound" after/during Fukodome's at-bat, but I don't remember if that was Cooper or if it was Ozzie arguiing balls and strikes with the home plate ump. Ranger was questioning the caller fairly defensively, and when the caller said the coaching visit was on the "stats" on Gameday, I don't think Rongey understood what he meant.

SoxGirl4Life
06-21-2008, 08:53 PM
I heard the Go Cubs Go song for the first time today and I gotta say I hate it......its almost like listening to fingernails on a blackboard....thats how irritating it is......:angry:


I wish i was you. They almost broke out singing it at work yesterday. I would have had to be restrained.

JB98
06-21-2008, 09:03 PM
I wish i was you. They almost broke out singing it at work yesterday. I would have had to be restrained.

They did sign it at my office Friday.

TomBradley72
06-21-2008, 09:07 PM
Two frustrating winnable losses in a row, but there's been some good news in the losses. Dye is on his way to another huge season. Quentin is back....drawing walks, hitting the ball hard, Alexei is holding steady in the .290s, Swisher is contributing, AJ's staying over .300, Carbera continues to hit well, defense overall still looks solid.

If Dotel, Linebrink had Contreras had delivered as they have most of the season, it's a very different weekend. Crede has disappeared this weekend which hasn't helped. That happens over the course of a long season.I still believe Ozzie is a good manager. And since our offense is heating up, I feel better about this team than I have all season.

I'm sure we'll be in it until the end, and confident we'll take the division.

OldRomanPizza
06-21-2008, 09:10 PM
Yesterday's loss didnt bother me too much. Today's loss has me gutted. Our team has looked weak and clueless, while their's is certainly tops in the majors...for now.

The circus is now in full force....:?:

Brian26
06-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Yesterday's loss didnt bother me too much. Today's loss has me gutted. Our team has looked weak and clueless, while their's is certainly tops in the majors...for now.


Even though yesterday's game was closer, the team as a whole played worse. The bullpen crumbled and the offense couldn't advance runners or get timely hits.

Today's loss stings because it seemed more lopsided, but really the team played well. The offense was clicking. The only guy that really didn't show up today was Contreras.

JB98
06-21-2008, 09:41 PM
Even though yesterday's game was closer, the team as a whole played worse. The bullpen crumbled and the offense couldn't advance runners or get timely hits.

Today's loss stings because it seemed more lopsided, but really the team played well. The offense was clicking. The only guy that really didn't show up today was Contreras.

Yesterday bothers me 1,000 times more than today. Today, our starting pitcher got rocked. The guys tried to come back, but they couldn't. Chalk it up to one of the 60 you're gonna lose.

Yesterday should have been our game. We got a great effort from Danks. We had numerous opportunities to break it open. It got away, and it shouldn't have.

Foulke You
06-21-2008, 09:44 PM
Two frustrating winnable losses in a row, but there's been some good news in the losses. Dye is on his way to another huge season. Quentin is back....drawing walks, hitting the ball hard, Alexei is holding steady in the .290s, Swisher is contributing, AJ's staying over .300, Carbera continues to hit well, defense overall still looks solid.

If Dotel, Linebrink had Contreras had delivered as they have most of the season, it's a very different weekend. Crede has disappeared this weekend which hasn't helped. That happens over the course of a long season.I still believe Ozzie is a good manager. And since our offense is heating up, I feel better about this team than I have all season.

I'm sure we'll be in it until the end, and confident we'll take the division.
Good observations. Quentin has looked very comfortable at the plate the last couple days which has me excited that he is about the get hot again. Crede has indeed looked pretty bad on offense the past couple days. Joe has had himself a nice offensive season but his season has been a snapshot of our offense as a whole. Some weeks he looks like Joe Dimaggio, some weeks he looks like Joe Borchard.

I also believe that Ozzie is a good manager. He has simply zigged when he should have zagged in both games this weekend. The Cubs have a good offense at the North Side launch pad and our pitching needed to be stellar to beat them and we haven't gotten it.

As far as that fanbase goes. Sheesh. Someone in an earlier thread pointed out that their fans always said "the games don't mean that much" when they were losing but now that they are winning, it is as big as the World Series. That "Go Cubs Go" song is the cheesiest, dumbest thing I've ever heard. The Wrigley rubes love it though. I was at the game today and saw every single stereotype Cub fan played out before my eyes. It was a living, breathing WSI thread of what our view of Cubs fans are. It ain't a stereotype if they live up to it. Chads, trixies, yuppies, drunken debauchery, defiled bathrooms, urine stench, you name it, I saw it today. I could fill an entire thread about my experience at the "shrine" today but I'd rather not sicken anyone more than they already are.

thomas35forever
06-21-2008, 09:54 PM
Sadly, the Twinkies won tonight, so our lead is down to 2.5 games.:(:

Foulke You
06-21-2008, 10:10 PM
Sadly, the Twinkies won tonight, so our lead is down to 2.5 games.:(:
You just knew that was going to happen the way things have been going. Sox need to just put the past 2 games behind them and get on another roll tomorrow.:(:

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 10:11 PM
Glad I missed this one in its entirety.. I did run out to the car and check..
At 4-1 I thought cool.. Came back and it was 9-4 and just dropped my head.

Do I want to watch the lowlights of this or should I just watch my dvr of Everyday Italian with Giada at 10 oclock..?


Everyday Italian with Giada is a good call! :thumbsup:

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 10:16 PM
I heard the Go Cubs Go song for the first time today and I gotta say I hate it......its almost like listening to fingernails on a blackboard....thats how irritating it is......:angry:


That song actually goes back to 1984 and was written and performed by Steve Goodman ("Lincoln Park Pirates", "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request") and was played quite a bit when they went on their run that season. IIRC Goodman passed away before the playoffs that year.

IMHO they're trying to revive that song like we revived "Let's Go Go-Go White Sox" in '05.

thomas35forever
06-21-2008, 10:19 PM
That song actually goes back to 1984 and was written and performed by Steve Goodman ("Lincoln Park Pirates", "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request") and was played quite a bit when they went on their run that season. IIRC Goodman passed away before the playoffs that year.

IMHO they're trying to revive that song like we revived "Let's Go Go-Go White Sox" in '05.
Revive it? I've heard that song since they clinched the division in '03. It's been revived already.

RadioheadRocks
06-21-2008, 10:22 PM
Revive it? I've heard that song since they clinched the division in '03. It's been revived already.


Okay, re-revive it.

rookie
06-21-2008, 10:23 PM
Losing 8 straight on the road is bad, going out to the west coast isn't going to help. This team is so hot and cold its not even funny anymore.

The sad reality of this team is that they're polar opposites when they're at home and on the road. They can't be just doing enough to win the division. They need home field advantage if they even get to play in October, or I wouldn't be feeling confident in advancing.

I caught ESPN on Thursday after our Pittsburgh sweep and I think someone said "the roller coaster that is the Chicago White Sox" and I remember agreeing with them whole heartedly.

We had the win streak in May, then the Tampa Bay, then the KC/Twins sweep, then being swept by Detriot and the Rockies winning the series, then sweeping Pittsburgh, and now this. Hopefully we go on another win streak come this upcoming week, but then remain there and become a little more consistent in winning series.

Maybe it's the teacher in me, but this team has potential, we'll see if they live up to it. Luckily it's a long season and it's only mid-June. What hurts is that the Twins won today, but let's be honest - this isn't 2005. We are not going to have a comfortable lead for most of the season, having very little stress during the regular season but a WHOLE lot of it in September. Under normal circumstances the stress is spread out a little more evenly.

I care nothing about the Cubs, but it's their fans that are annoying. There are some good ones, but too many that are willing to talk trash to you just because you're wearing a White Sox shirt to a bar on a Friday night. But they are only haters because they are jealous. We have 2005, they have 2003, 2008 and 100. They are only celebrating like they've won the WS because they won't get the chance. Those who were alive the last time the Cubs won the WS probably know better. Luckily these games didn't happen during the school year this year or else I'd have to deal with lil' cubbies-in training. Those of you who have to deal with them, shrug it off the best you can.

It's Time
06-21-2008, 10:33 PM
I am still in shock over the 4th inning and I don't think we'll ever see another inning like it again.

I was sitting in stunned silence. Seriously, 4 homers and they were of the back to back variety in the same damn inning.

Hawk even said he doesn't ever recall 10 batters batters coming to the plate and 9 of them scoring to start an inning. It was insane.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2008, 10:34 PM
Streaky is the best term I've heard.

In three months this club has had an eight game winning streak, a seven game winning streak, a six game losing streak, they won 23 of 33 games and currently have an eight game road losing streak.

:?:

Home Run or nothing...

Thomas:

Cleveland and Kansas City also won.

Like Bob Costas has said part of the stupidity of interleague play is that teams don't even play the same interleague schedule and it's effecting pennant races.

This week the Sox got the almost .500 Pirates and the red hot Cubs, while the Twins were playing the Nationals, maybe baseball's worst team and Arizona barely over .500 at home.

I like interleague but for God's sake BALANCE the damn interleague schedule. Every team in one division plays every team in the other division.

Period.

None of this 'oh you'll play three from the west and two from the east crap.'

If that means the Sox-Cubs, Yanks-Mets, Dodgers-Angels can't play six games to damn bad.

Lip

southsideirish71
06-21-2008, 10:59 PM
We need to start winning, because the next 2 weeks is ugly. We need better execution and a better effort. The pack is getting closer, and we need to ride this out till the break for the 2nd half push.

Dempster tomorrow.

Then Lowe, Stults, and Kershaw.

Kershaw of the left handed, never faced, Zitolike curveball, and change.

Then the cubs pitchers which are not all that good.

Then it gets ugly.

Sowers
Lee
Sabathia

and then Oakland for 4 games.

KingXerxes
06-21-2008, 11:02 PM
Streaky is the best term I've heard.

In three months this club has had an eight game winning streak, a seven game winning streak, a six game losing streak, they won 23 of 33 games and currently have an eight game road losing streak.

:?:

Home Run or nothing...

Thomas:

Cleveland and Kansas City also won.

Like Bob Costas has said part of the stupidity of interleague play is that teams don't even play the same interleague schedule and it's effecting pennant races.

This week the Sox got the almost .500 Pirates and the red hot Cubs, while the Twins were playing the Nationals, maybe baseball's worst team and Arizona barely over .500 at home.

I like interleague but for God's sake BALANCE the damn interleague schedule. Every team in one division plays every team in the other division.

Period.

None of this 'oh you'll play three from the west and two from the east crap.'

If that means the Sox-Cubs, Yanks-Mets, Dodgers-Angels can't play six games to damn bad.

Lip

But it would also mean that the Mariners/Astros rivalry would also fall. I don't think baseball fans could live with that.:wink:

Viva Medias B's
06-21-2008, 11:27 PM
My biggest concern is Contreras. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this his third bad outing in a row? If he continues to pitch this bad, I think he should be removed from the rotation.

chisoxfanatic
06-21-2008, 11:36 PM
Sadly, the Twinkies won tonight, so our lead is down to 2.5 games.:(:
Yea, I hear you on that. What has happened since that 4-game sweep of Minnesota has brought our team back to where they were prior to that 4-game sweep of Minnesota. This is turning into a much tighter division than I had ever thought it would, especially THIS soon after taking such a comfortable 6.5 game lead. The only solace we can take at this present moment is that Detroit's losing (and by the slimmest margins...GO SAN DIEGO!).

I watched a couple of movies on the Showtime Network tonight, which did help; but, I STILL cannot believe that bottom of the 4th. I think Ozzie, AJ, or Coop should've gone out there much sooner to have a talk with Contreras. He honestly looked rattled after allowing the first base runner.

soxfanatlanta
06-21-2008, 11:37 PM
My biggest concern is Contreras. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this his third bad outing in a row? If he continues to pitch this bad, I think he should be removed from the rotation.

Replaced by whom?

FarWestChicago
06-21-2008, 11:39 PM
Replaced by whom?Sox fans only fire people. They don't have to worry about who replaces them. :wink:

Viva Medias B's
06-21-2008, 11:42 PM
Replaced by whom?

Good question. Would Nick Masset be a candidate? That is who I had in mind. Or do you think someone else should be? Hey, they would be a good thread in its own right.

Daver
06-21-2008, 11:43 PM
Replaced by whom?


:chopper



Put me in coach.

soxfanatlanta
06-21-2008, 11:43 PM
Sox fans only fire people. They don't have to worry about who replaces them. :wink:

My point exactly (I was trying to take the Socratic dialogue route). There is nobody in Charlotte who can step up here. What you see is what you get.

DickAllen72
06-21-2008, 11:54 PM
Dempster unbeaten at home and he goes tomorrow. Watch that be the game we win.
Sounds good to me!

Viva Medias B's
06-21-2008, 11:57 PM
My point exactly (I was trying to take the Socratic dialogue route). There is nobody in Charlotte who can step up here. What you see is what you get.

What does that tell you? Now suppose a starter went down due to injury. We'd have a problem.

sox1970
06-22-2008, 12:00 AM
What does that tell you? Now suppose a starter went down due to injury. We'd have a problem.

Loaiza struggled today. Broadway is tailing off. Egbert...maybe next year.

Clayton Richard is doing the best right now, and he just got promoted to AAA, so yeah, we're kinda screwed if someone gets injured.

Sox
06-22-2008, 12:00 AM
I wish i was you. They almost broke out singing it at work yesterday. I would have had to be restrained.

E-gad's SoxGirl4life, thats cruel and unusual punishment.....I don't blame ya....no devout White Sox fan should have to listen to that, especially at work.

RadioheadRocks
06-22-2008, 12:04 AM
I wish i was you. They almost broke out singing it at work yesterday. I would have had to be restrained.


Just close your eyes and picture yourself on a beautiful tropical island beach enjoying a margarita (or pina colada or whatever your tropical drink of choice may be) and listening to Captain Stubby and the Buccaneers...

chisoxfanatic
06-22-2008, 12:13 AM
Just close your eyes and picture yourself on a beautiful tropical island beach enjoying a margarita (or pina colada or whatever your tropical drink of choice may be) and listening to Captain Stubby and the Buccaneers...
Or, you can always change the lyrics. :wink:

FarWestChicago
06-22-2008, 12:16 AM
What does that tell you? Now suppose a starter went down due to injury. We'd have a problem.Change your underwear, Viva. You are once again having an incontinence problem. :nod:

PaleHoser
06-22-2008, 12:36 AM
I had the good fortune of missing today's game but have taken the time to read the on-line box score and scoring summary. I have two comments.

1. Was Ozzie asleep in the fourth inning? How does a starting pitcher give up nine runs while retiring only one hitter?

2. One thing I've noticed about Contreras (and Sox pitchers in general) is that they don't dust hitters during big innings. I don't condone throwing at hitters (particularly their heads) but a hitter has to be put on his rear-end sometimes, particularly after back-to-back home runs.

Give up four home runs in an inning, and no hit batsman tells me that we're not pitching inside.

Brian26
06-22-2008, 09:04 AM
Hawk even said he doesn't ever recall 10 batters batters coming to the plate and 9 of them scoring to start an inning. It was insane.

Hawk must have forgotten the 6-20-2006 20-run ass-kicking we gave the Cardinals before they backed into the World Series Title that year.

Nine of the first ten Sox batters scored, with the sole exception being Pablo, in the 3rd:

Bottom of the 3rd per retrosheet:
WHITE SOX 3RD: Crede doubled to center; Anderson doubled to
right [Crede scored]; Ozuna flied to right; Iguchi singled to
center [Anderson scored]; Thome singled to center [Iguchi to
second]; Konerko singled to left [Iguchi scored, Thome to
second]; Dye singled to center [Thome scored, Konerko to
second]; Pierzynski homered [Konerko scored, Dye scored]; Uribe
singled to left; Crede homered [Uribe scored]; THOMPSON REPLACED
MULDER (PITCHING); Anderson was called out on strikes; Ozuna
singled to left; Iguchi singled to center [Ozuna to second];
Thome walked [Ozuna to third, Iguchi to second]; Konerko singled
to left [Ozuna scored, Iguchi scored, Thome to second]; Dye
forced Konerko (shortstop to second); 11 R, 12 H, 0 E, 2 LOB.
Cardinals 1, White Sox 11.

alohafri
06-22-2008, 11:45 AM
I heard that call and thought Ranger was a little harsh with the guy. The caller had obviously been watching the game on Gameday, which noted a "coaching visit to the mound" after/during Fukodome's at-bat, but I don't remember if that was Cooper or if it was Ozzie arguiing balls and strikes with the home plate ump. Ranger was questioning the caller fairly defensively, and when the caller said the coaching visit was on the "stats" on Gameday, I don't think Rongey understood what he meant.

Ranger was wrong! (Sorry ChiSoxGirl :wink:). There is a picture in today's Cubune of a meeting at the mound with Contreras, AJ, and Coop.

I think Rongey was a little out of line.

rookie
06-22-2008, 02:19 PM
E-gad's SoxGirl4life, thats cruel and unusual punishment.....I don't blame ya....no devout White Sox fan should have to listen to that, especially at work.

Just close your eyes and picture yourself on a beautiful tropical island beach enjoying a margarita (or pina colada or whatever your tropical drink of choice may be) and listening to Captain Stubby and the Buccaneers...

Um, I played Let's Go-Go-Go White Sox every morning after the White Sox won a playoff game in 2005 (which ended up being a lot of mornings). I had it on a continual loop from when the students came in until the bell rang. I am sure it drove the lil-Cubbies in training crazy, but...:redface:

SoxGirl4Life
06-22-2008, 02:26 PM
They did sign it at my office Friday.


I'm sorry :(

During yesterday's game, I just imagined that all those idiots rocking and signing Go Cubs Go were the same ones crying after the Diamondbacks swept the Cubs in October.

BRDSR
06-22-2008, 02:31 PM
1. Was Ozzie asleep in the fourth inning? How does a starting pitcher give up nine runs while retiring only one hitter?



I believe he only gave up eight. Boone Logan came in and promptly served up a solo home run. That doesn't change your observation much, though.