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View Full Version : Have I menitoned how much Dotel has not impressed me....


Pear-Zin-Ski
06-20-2008, 03:49 PM
Way to waste 6 innings of beautiful work by John Danks....

Lets hope the offense comes alive for my level of stress' sake....

Dolemite79
06-20-2008, 03:55 PM
he doesn't get how to pitch in big game situation what a %$!$! waste. Ozzie is partly to blame for this too should of left Danks in yes Uribe got a basehit but as usual we couldnt do anything with it

Rocky Soprano
06-20-2008, 04:01 PM
Quit the bitching, watch the game, and cheer for the Sox!

doublem23
06-20-2008, 04:04 PM
http://homepages.ius.edu/SRICKARD/cheese2.jpg

I think you guys need some of this.

The Milkman
06-20-2008, 04:07 PM
Danks threw 85 pitches. 85. 85. He's not Joba Danks. He was CRUISING.

VeeckAsInWreck
06-20-2008, 04:23 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SKEV2FZEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

scarsofthumper
06-20-2008, 04:24 PM
Scott Linebrink is now though at least


CRAP HR just as I was typing that :(

jabrch
06-20-2008, 04:24 PM
Have I menitoned how much Dotel has not impressed me.... (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=102637)

That's completely moronic...

soxrme
06-20-2008, 04:25 PM
moron:angry:

WhiteSox5187
06-20-2008, 04:30 PM
He hasn't been bad, in fact he's been good, but in big game situations, he ****s himself.

BainesHOF
06-20-2008, 04:38 PM
It was downright silly to take out Danks when Ozzie did.

Our situational hitting was even worse than Dotel's pitching. My goodness, Thome's at-bat was simply awful.

thomas35forever
06-20-2008, 04:46 PM
Anyone who thinks Dotel has not been impressive this year clearly hasn't been watching many games. He is frustrating at times, but he does well more times than not. I would still trust him as the bridge to Linebrink and Jenks.

CHISOXFAN13
06-20-2008, 04:48 PM
This is how Ozzie has managed the bullpen all season!

stop bitching.

the inability to get a run in SEVERAL times cost us. period. end of story.

When's the Linebrink sucks thread start? I'm not sure if i should put that in teal or not.

soxcrazy49
06-20-2008, 04:53 PM
You should use that cheese image for some of the people in the post-game thread who can't handle any analysis of the game that ends up critiquing the Sox. I haven't seen one legit response, just 'who cares, we're in first place', 'anyone who criticizes this team is embarrassing, I'm out of here', 'I can't believe what I'm reading', etc etc etc

russ99
06-20-2008, 05:00 PM
He hasn't been bad, in fact he's been good, but in big game situations, he ****s himself.

Not all of them. I remember O Do Tell got brought in with the bases loaded once and got us out of a huge jam.

Truth be told, all relievers have a bad outing once in a while, look at Marmol last night. It just annoys us more that both Dotel and Linebrink had theirs the same day vs. the Cubs. Both of them are still solid relievers and have impressive numbers.

Here's hoping Contreras has a good game tomorrow and out hitters execute better with runners on. Crede especially looked really bad in that department today.

BUMMER
06-20-2008, 05:14 PM
Anyone who thinks Dotel has not been impressive this year clearly hasn't been watching many games. He is frustrating at times, but he does well more times than not. I would still trust him as the bridge to Linebrink and Jenks.

True, Dotel's done well - occasionally. I think he's blown about 4 games - games that we may wish we had come Sept. (Remember the 12 straight balls - out West, I think). Dotel is a fly-ball pitcher IMO and launching pads like The Cell or Wrigley today are NOT the place to use him. Ozzie overmanaged on that one. Anyone feel Massett can do Dotel's job?
Worse were the doubles by Swish, CQ, & BA who not only didn't score, but didn't even get to 3rd. Yeah, Thome hits 512th when we're 10 runs up, but I would have taken one of his weak-a** grounders to second after BA's doulble over the popout!

High Mileage
06-20-2008, 06:03 PM
You guys don't like Rotel? I'm sure glad we got rid of him, and about a week later his arm fell off. Kyle Davies has pitched well for us this season...

Elephant
06-20-2008, 06:07 PM
This is how Ozzie has managed the bullpen all season!

stop bitching.

the inability to get a run in SEVERAL times cost us. period. end of story.

When's the Linebrink sucks thread start? I'm not sure if i should put that in teal or not.

Ugh. But when the TEAM is lacking in certain areas in a particular game, it's the manager's JOB to try to put them in a position to overcome that. One way to do that is to, like, leave in the guy who's pitched brilliantly for 6 innings with 85 pitches to secure a precarious 2 run lead against a powerful lineup.

Basically, your post was a waste of time.

Boondock Saint
06-20-2008, 06:15 PM
Dotel is a better than 90% of the relief pitchers we trotted out there to get lit up time and again last year, and it's by a country mile. This thread needs to stop getting started every time he messes up.

Boondock Saint
06-20-2008, 06:17 PM
Ugh. But when the TEAM is lacking in certain areas in a particular game, it's the manager's JOB to try to put them in a position to overcome that. One way to do that is to, like, leave in the guy who's pitched brilliantly for 6 innings with 85 pitches to secure a precarious 2 run lead against a powerful lineup.

Basically, your post was a waste of time.

We need to keep Danks fresh for September and October, as well as Floyd. Every inning that we can rely on our bullpen to give them rest is an important one. We can't play the role of Dusty Baker here and just assume that they'll be okay.

DickAllen72
06-20-2008, 06:22 PM
Anyone who thinks Dotel has not been impressive this year clearly hasn't been watching many games. He is frustrating at times, but he does well more times than not. I would still trust him as the bridge to Linebrink and Jenks.
I agree.

Lefty34
06-20-2008, 06:43 PM
This is how Ozzie has managed the bullpen all season!

stop bitching.

the inability to get a run in SEVERAL times cost us. period. end of story.

When's the Linebrink sucks thread start? I'm not sure if i should put that in teal or not.

Well, the fact that Dotel gave up back-to-back HR's didn't help, either, but ok. Why are you equating the criticizing of Dotel (one of the team's poorest relievers with the largest ERA, smallest ERA+ [remember: bigger is better], most walks and, yet, the most innings) with stupidity that will lead to the criticizing of Scott Linebrink (smallest ERA, largest ERA+ and fewest walks)? Now that is moronic. Dotel not only can be criticized, but should be, given his stats.

Dotel is a better than 90% of the relief pitchers we trotted out there to get lit up time and again last year, and it's by a country mile. This thread needs to stop getting started every time he messes up.

That may be true, but he is clearly not the best we have now.

White Sox Relievers' ERA+:

Linebrink: 350

Jenks: 228

Logan: 201

Thornton: 163

Dotel: 161

Yet, somehow, some way, Dotel is getting to face the most batters. Hmmm...

soxpride724
06-20-2008, 07:44 PM
I like Dotel, and his bad outings are over shadowing his good outings.

FarWestChicago
06-20-2008, 09:08 PM
You should use that cheese image for some of the people in the post-game thread who can't handle any analysis of the game that ends up critiquing the Sox. I haven't seen one legit response, just 'who cares, we're in first place', 'anyone who criticizes this team is embarrassing, I'm out of here', 'I can't believe what I'm reading', etc etc etcShut the **** up.

JB98
06-20-2008, 09:12 PM
I like Dotel, and his bad outings are over shadowing his good outings.

Remember, the Sox could do worse. I'll roll the dice with Dotel over MacDougal, Aardsma and Sisco any day of the week.

Noneck
06-20-2008, 09:19 PM
Remember, the Sox could do worse. I'll roll the dice with Dotel over MacDougal, Aardsma and Sisco any day of the week.
Or Bukvich or Myers.

JB98
06-20-2008, 09:25 PM
Or Bukvich or Myers.

Or Dewon Day.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2008, 09:32 PM
I agree. Dotel is a big improvement. No question.

Lip

Dabchsx28
06-20-2008, 09:36 PM
We need to keep Danks fresh for September and October, as well as Floyd. Every inning that we can rely on our bullpen to give them rest is an important one. We can't play the role of Dusty Baker here and just assume that they'll be okay.
U moron we need to win these kind of games to b in October

tacosalbarojas
06-20-2008, 09:39 PM
Or Dewon Day.This won't be complete without a mention of Bret Prinz.

JB98
06-20-2008, 09:41 PM
This won't be complete without a mention of Bret Prinz.

True, he only made four appearances. But what a terrible four appearances they were. I attended a game against the Astros where Prinz essentially refused to throw a strike.

doublem23
06-20-2008, 10:20 PM
Ugh. But when the TEAM is lacking in certain areas in a particular game, it's the manager's JOB to try to put them in a position to overcome that. One way to do that is to, like, leave in the guy who's pitched brilliantly for 6 innings with 85 pitches to secure a precarious 2 run lead against a powerful lineup.

Basically, your post was a waste of time.

Hindsight is 20/20, the guy who pinch hit for Danks did his job, he got a base hit to lead of the inning. That's a lose-lose situation for Ozzie if his players don't perform... Who's to say if Danks bats in the 7th and somehow gets on base, has to run and then hits a wall the next inning and coughs up the lead? You'd be here complaining, "it's the manager's JOB to put the team in the best position to win, pinch hitting for your pitcher in the late innings to try and score an insurance run and use your bullpen, whose been pretty lights out for most of this season, to slam the door on a win."

Ozzie is an "idiot" because the Sox failed numerous times to not only drive in potential insurance runs, but even move the runners up at all. Had any of the 3 guys who lead off their innings with hits scored, there's a good chance we win today and we're all lauding Ozzie for the way he handled his pitching staff.

So basically, what I'm saying is your post is waste of the internet.

tacosalbarojas
06-20-2008, 10:40 PM
True, he only made four appearances. But what a terrible four appearances they were. I attended a game against the Astros where Prinz essentially refused to throw a strike.Since he was a south suburban guy, I was hoping he'd do well, but man, he was disgusting. I just his name in Baseball America on a Triple A team, which is what reminded me of his time here.

jenn2080
06-20-2008, 10:51 PM
I agree. Dotel is a big improvement. No question.

Lip

I am so glad that there are some people who see the light. For **** sake Dotel had one bad outing in a few months. Get over it.

RadioheadRocks
06-20-2008, 11:12 PM
I am so glad that there are some people who see the light. For **** sake Dotel had one bad outing in a few months. Get over it.


To be fair, he actually had three bad outings over the past 8 days (6/12: loss to Detroit, walkoff homer to Miguel Cabrera; 6/14, loss to Colorado; today). I'm thinking due to these three recent outings maybe Cooper can work with him and identify what he may be doing wrong.

KingXerxes
06-20-2008, 11:21 PM
I'm happily surprised they have gotten what they have gotten out of Dotel. It's not like he's a youngster anymore (34-35 years old), and he has pitched OK. I hope they're not relying on him to regain the form he had in Houston because that bird has flown.

They're using him pretty much the way they should - it just didn't work today.

My question is why they didn't even attempt to bunt anybody over after all the lead off runners. Fine - go ahead and pinch hit for Danks - but after they did, and Uribe got on base, didn't it occur to anybody to get him over a base? Don't get me started on the lead off doubles by Swisher and Anderson - no excuses there - they blew it.

Nellie_Fox
06-21-2008, 12:29 AM
he doesn't get how to pitch in big game situation what a %$!$! waste. Ozzie is partly to blame for this too should of left Danks in yes Uribe got a basehit but as usual we couldnt do anything with itTwelve posts in over a year, and this is the best you could do?

CHISOXFAN13
06-21-2008, 12:42 AM
Well, the fact that Dotel gave up back-to-back HR's didn't help, either, but ok. Why are you equating the criticizing of Dotel (one of the team's poorest relievers with the largest ERA, smallest ERA+ [remember: bigger is better], most walks and, yet, the most innings) with stupidity that will lead to the criticizing of Scott Linebrink (smallest ERA, largest ERA+ and fewest walks)? Now that is moronic. Dotel not only can be criticized, but should be, given his stats.



That may be true, but he is clearly not the best we have now.

White Sox Relievers' ERA+:

Linebrink: 350

Jenks: 228

Logan: 201

Thornton: 163

Dotel: 161

Yet, somehow, some way, Dotel is getting to face the most batters. Hmmm...

Next time I'll put it in teal for you since you couldn't figure it out yourself.

Blatant sarcasm really shouldn't require teal, but make up whatever you like to make yourself sound better.

Whatever works.

CHISOXFAN13
06-21-2008, 12:43 AM
Ugh. But when the TEAM is lacking in certain areas in a particular game, it's the manager's JOB to try to put them in a position to overcome that. One way to do that is to, like, leave in the guy who's pitched brilliantly for 6 innings with 85 pitches to secure a precarious 2 run lead against a powerful lineup.

Basically, your post was a waste of time.

Heaven forbid you blame the players for failed execution.

I'm with Doub on this one.

TDog
06-21-2008, 01:07 AM
Hindsight is 20/20, the guy who pinch hit for Danks did his job, he got a base hit to lead of the inning. That's a lose-lose situation for Ozzie if his players don't perform... Who's to say if Danks bats in the 7th and somehow gets on base, has to run and then hits a wall the next inning and coughs up the lead? You'd be here complaining, "it's the manager's JOB to put the team in the best position to win, pinch hitting for your pitcher in the late innings to try and score an insurance run and use your bullpen, whose been pretty lights out for most of this season, to slam the door on a win."
Honestly, I don't see how Danks can lead off the seventh inning for the Sox. Pitch count is irrelevant. Danks pitched seven in a game in April and he pitched into the eighth in another April game. Otherwise, he hasn't gone longer than sixth. It doesn't seem to be a question of his pitch count. He was under 90 pitches when he only lasted just five in a win against the Twins where he lost his stuff in the fifth and gave up two runs to break a scoreless tie.

Had the Sox picked up one more baserunner in the sixth -- if Anderson walks -- Danks may have been in the game to pitch to Lee. (Or maybe Uribe hits for Danks an inning earlier.) If Lee had reached against Danks, Guillen, no doubt would have pulled him and brought in Dotel. Maybe Danks even gets three quick outs, but after six he is on a short leash, especially in a two-run game. At best for the Sox, Linebrink comes in in the eighth up by two. Maybe that works, maybe not. The reality is that because the Sox only had a two-run lead, pinch-hitting for Danks seemed to be the smartest move. Taking Danks out after six wasn't simply a question of bullpen management. Pinch-hitting for Danks was the right move. It's a question of whether you want to play an offensive inning with just two outs late in a close game for the sake of keeping in a pitcher who may only face one batter.

The Sox lost Friday. They lost because of their bullpen. Three runs should have been enough. But the bullpen, that only about a month ago had given up fewer home runs than any bullpen in baseball, gave up three home runs while only getting credited for two innings of work. Linebrink has lost two games by allowing game-ending home runs to the first batter he has faced. It happens. Nathan has given up two two-out game-tying ninth-inning home runs for the Twins this year. Bad stuff happens sometimes during a long season, even when you make what should have been the right moves.

High Mileage
06-21-2008, 03:49 AM
http://rocksinmydryer.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/04/rotel_copy.jpg

SBSoxFan
06-21-2008, 05:33 AM
My question is why they didn't even attempt to bunt anybody over after all the lead off runners. Fine - go ahead and pinch hit for Danks - but after they did, and Uribe got on base, didn't it occur to anybody to get him over a base? Don't get me started on the lead off doubles by Swisher and Anderson - no excuses there - they blew it.

My thoughts exactly. Of course, with the way they hit with runners in scoring position, it wouldn't have mattered. :angry:

BigPapaPump
06-21-2008, 07:00 AM
:threadsucks: