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Procol Harum
05-06-2002, 11:55 PM
Good point on J-Hood on the Score--why was C. Lee out there in left in the 9th? Why not Rowand? Of course, not that the next batter wouldn't have done us in anyway....

Jjav829
05-07-2002, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
Good point on J-Hood on the Score--why was C. Lee out there in left in the 9th? Why not Rowand? Of course, not that the next batter wouldn't have done us in anyway....

Im guessing it's because of the fact that Lee would have been up next inning, so JM wanted Lee's bat in there. Of course he never saw the situation of Carlos having to make the throw to try to save the game, coming or Rowand probably would have been in there.

GASHWOUND
05-07-2002, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
Good point on J-Hood on the Score--why was C. Lee out there in left in the 9th? Why not Rowand? Of course, not that the next batter wouldn't have done us in anyway....

I don't know, I know JM Pinched hit Lee for Leifer cause of the left hander and I never seen Rownand really throw. Does Rowand have a good arm? Maybe JM didn't really think there was a huge difference between both players arm strength. Of course I didn't know C.Lee was gnna lolly pop a throw to Home. Sheesh, he caught it flat footed, instead of gathering momentum to home.
Man, not even close at home.

Daver
05-07-2002, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


I don't know, I know JM Pinched hit Lee for Leifer cause of the left hander and I never seen Rownand really throw. Does Rowand have a good arm? Maybe JM didn't really think there was a huge difference between both players arm strength. Of course I didn't know C.Lee was gnna lolly pop a throw to Home. Sheesh, he caught it flat footed, instead of gathering momentum to home.
Man, not even close at home.

Rowand has a better than average arm.

Randar68
05-07-2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by daver


Rowand has a better than average arm.

While Rowand has an average arm, let's not make him out to be something he isn't. Lee hasd a much better arm and lead the league last season in OF assists.

Lee out there in that situation was the right call. Lee did not get in great position to throw him out, but nothing says Rowand would have done better or, even if he had been in good position, would have had enough to throw him out. Carlos just didn't get set.

We shouldn't split hairs over a game JM clearly lost by his hand of ignorance in his choice of pitchers...

Soxboyrob
05-07-2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


We shouldn't split hairs over a game JM clearly lost by his hand of ignorance in his choice of pitchers...

Great point....why do we have a lefty warming up in the pen while righty Osuna is on the mound getting shelled by lefty hitters? What in the hell is going on out there? I just don't get the thinking there. It would be one thing to have left Osuna out there had he looked good in the eighth....but he didn't.

Procol Harum
05-07-2002, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


We shouldn't split hairs over a game JM clearly lost by his hand of ignorance in his choice of pitchers...

Among various things he did--one could question why Lee was sitting out at all as he seems to be heating up a bit with the bat of late and has been throwing around the good leather. So now it's time to sit him. JM is hard to figure.

RedPinStripes
05-07-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


While Rowand has an average arm, let's not make him out to be something he isn't. Lee hasd a much better arm and lead the league last season in OF assists.

Lee out there in that situation was the right call. Lee did not get in great position to throw him out, but nothing says Rowand would have done better or, even if he had been in good position, would have had enough to throw him out. Carlos just didn't get set.

We shouldn't split hairs over a game JM clearly lost by his hand of ignorance in his choice of pitchers...

You really dont like Rowand. :smile:

Most of the guys who lead the league in assissts are guys who people will always run on. Some people say Ichiro's arm is real good, but not always consistant, but no one will ever run on him again after seeing what he did to Terrance Long last year.

The first thing i thought when Lee threw that ball was he didn't approach that ball right to make a good throw. That is something they used to ream us out on in hs. I'll never forget to get in position when coming in on a ball after many sprints.

Foulke You
05-07-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


While Rowand has an average arm, let's not make him out to be something he isn't. Lee hasd a much better arm and lead the league last season in OF assists.

Lee out there in that situation was the right call. Lee did not get in great position to throw him out, but nothing says Rowand would have done better or, even if he had been in good position, would have had enough to throw him out. Carlos just didn't get set.

We shouldn't split hairs over a game JM clearly lost by his hand of ignorance in his choice of pitchers...

While I agree that Osuna shouldn't have been out there in the 9th, the Sox still would have had a very good chance to come out of the inning unscathed had a different LF been out there. That pop fly was so shallow there is no excuse for Lee to throw a lollipop that was way off the mark anyway. It was only about a 190 ft away! It was Palmero running too, not Ricky Henderson or Kenny Lofton! I think they sent Rafeal purely on the fact that it was Carlos in LF. If Rowand was there they might not have tested his arm. I think even Liefer would have made a better throw than that. How a guy like Carlos who has tremendous power at the bat can have such a girly throwing arm is beyond me. If Rowand catches it and pegs out Rafeal at the plate there is 2 outs and a good chance of getting out of the inning. Oh well, it figures the one time JM doesn't replace Carlos in LF late in the game we get burned. :angry:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-07-2002, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
How a guy like Carlos who has tremendous power at the bat can have such a girly throwing arm is beyond me.

:hurt
"Hey, I resemble that remark!"

:)

Randar68
05-07-2002, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You


While I agree that Osuna shouldn't have been out there in the 9th, the Sox still would have had a very good chance to come out of the inning unscathed had a different LF been out there. That pop fly was so shallow there is no excuse for Lee to throw a lollipop that was way off the mark anyway. It was only about a 190 ft away! It was Palmero running too, not Ricky Henderson or Kenny Lofton! I think they sent Rafeal purely on the fact that it was Carlos in LF. If Rowand was there they might not have tested his arm. I think even Liefer would have made a better throw than that. How a guy like Carlos who has tremendous power at the bat can have such a girly throwing arm is beyond me. If Rowand catches it and pegs out Rafeal at the plate there is 2 outs and a good chance of getting out of the inning. Oh well, it figures the one time JM doesn't replace Carlos in LF late in the game we get burned. :angry:

1) Lay off the crack rock
2) He threw that guy out (basically) from the corner the other night
3) Rowand does not have a better arm, better footwork, maybe
4) CARLOS LEE LEAD THE MAJORS IN OF ASSISTS LAST YEAR

Lay off the doobage and take a step back from the ledge. It is one game. If Carlos doesn't take the HR away the other night, maybe that was a loss.

You can throw all your what-ifs around you want, but Carlos did not put that man on 3rd base with only 1 out.

doctor30th
05-07-2002, 06:08 PM
Ok everyone's blamming Lee.


Why isn't anyone blamming Magglio for stupid base running in the top of the ninth?

Foulke You
05-07-2002, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


1) Lay off the crack rock
2) He threw that guy out (basically) from the corner the other night
3) Rowand does not have a better arm, better footwork, maybe
4) CARLOS LEE LEAD THE MAJORS IN OF ASSISTS LAST YEAR

Lay off the doobage and take a step back from the ledge. It is one game. If Carlos doesn't take the HR away the other night, maybe that was a loss.

You can throw all your what-ifs around you want, but Carlos did not put that man on 3rd base with only 1 out.

1) I don't use the crack. Just Coffee which could be why I'm edgy. :smile:
2) He did throw him out but that throw last night was just AWFUL. It wasn't even CLOSE and it was so SHALLOW! It is not the 1st time we've seen this type of throw from Carlos.
3) Most outfielders will tell you that footwork is everything in the outfield. Lee did not get himself in a good position to throw and fired a lollipop to Sandy that was so off that there wasn't even a play on the "speedy" Rafael Palmero.


I know it is one game and I'm not solely blaming Carlos. I'm upset at the managerial mistakes that were made at the most crucial part of the game last night. I blame Manuel for putting him in that situation. Manuel left Osuna to die out there in the 9th and it was Manuel who left Carlos in a tight game where 1 more out could have made the difference. I feel much better with Rowand or even Liefer in LF then Carlos in a tight ballgame in the 9th.

Foulke You
05-07-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


:hurt
"Hey, I resemble that remark!"

:)

speaking of girly throwing arms from power hitters...

:shammy