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BigPapaPump
06-17-2008, 08:46 AM
C-A.J.
3B-Aramis Ramirez:scratch:
SS-Ryan Theriot
2B-Alexei Ramirez
1B-Derrek Lee
LF-Carlos Quentin
RF-Kosuke Fukodome:scratch:
CF-Reed Johnson
CLOSER-Bobby Jenks
SETUP-Carlos Marmol
SUPERSUB-Mark DeRosa
MANAGER-Lou Piniella:scratch:

No love for Dye, Crede, or Ozzie.

russ99
06-17-2008, 08:49 AM
C-A.J.
3B-Aramis Ramirez:scratch:
SS-Ryan Theriot
2B-Alexei Ramirez
1B-Derrek Lee
LF-Carlos Quentin
RF-Kosuke Fukodome:scratch:
CF-Reed Johnson
CLOSER-Bobby Jenks
SETUP-Carlos Marmol
SUPERSUB-Mark DeRosa
MANAGER-Lou Piniella:scratch:

No love for Dye, Crede, or Ozzie.

I can deal with picking Ramirez (good player, even though I can't stand him) and Piniella (experience) over our Sox counterparts, but there's no way Jermaine Dye isn't better than Fukudome.

He's a first year player, with more flash and hype than actual results, and Dye's been really steady this year unlike his slump/injury season last year. Dye (the one with the track record and the World Series MVP) is hitting .286 with 11 homers. The rookie Fukudome's hitting .293 with 5 HR's in that bandbox.

Then DeLuca totally blows any sense of impartiality, by saying he'd pick Soriano over Quentin if he were healthy. :rolleyes:

aryzner
06-17-2008, 08:49 AM
That would make for a pretty formidable lineup.

The Dude
06-17-2008, 08:56 AM
Give me Fukudome over Dye any day of the week. I think this is a pretty accurate lineup when you look at both teams.

cws05champ
06-17-2008, 08:59 AM
C-A.J.
3B-Aramis Ramirez:scratch:
SS-Ryan Theriot
2B-Alexei Ramirez
1B-Derrek Lee
LF-Carlos Quentin
RF-Kosuke Fukodome:scratch:
CF-Reed Johnson
CLOSER-Bobby Jenks
SETUP-Carlos Marmol
SUPERSUB-Mark DeRosa
MANAGER-Lou Piniella:scratch:

No love for Dye, Crede, or Ozzie.
I don't see too much wrong with this. In fact I would go with Soto over AJ at this point. 3B is a toss up, both are having decent seasons, and I can't say this year Crede will give you better defense. I would want a bat like Fukudome's in the lineup of power hitters over Dye.

Rotation: Big Z, Vazquez, Floyd, Danks, Dempster (I can't believe Buehrle or Contreras would not be in here)

kraut83
06-17-2008, 08:59 AM
I don't have a problem with any of these. You could make an arguement for Dye over Fukudome, and also for Soto over AJ at catcher.

SP would be: Zambrano, Floyd, Danks, Jose, Vazquez/Dempster.

Boondock Saint
06-17-2008, 09:18 AM
I've got no problems with the lineup. You could argue Crede over Ramirez, but you want some power in there, too. That lineup just goes to show that Chicago has an unstoppable World Series roster between them. More than you can say for the other 2-team cities.

Craig Grebeck
06-17-2008, 09:24 AM
Johnson over Swisher has me shaking my head. Johnson is horrid as a full-time player.

ondafarm
06-17-2008, 09:28 AM
C-A.J. - Soto is a rookie, AJ is better right now.
3B-Aramis Ramirez - Crede's D is way better but . . .
SS-Ryan Theriot - a very close pick, Orlando has been playing much better than Theriot and has vastly better D
2B-Alexei Ramirez - a safe pick
1B-Derrek Lee - yeah
LF-Carlos Quentin - yeah
RF-Kosuke Fukodome - over Dye? a hard call
CF-Reed Johnson - yeah probably
CLOSER-Bobby Jenks - not even close
SETUP-Carlos Marmol - over Linebrink? maybe?
SUPERSUB-Mark DeRosa - whatever
MANAGER-Lou Piniella - not even close

eriqjaffe
06-17-2008, 09:29 AM
I would want a bat like Fukudome's in the lineup of power hitters over Dye.Fukudome in right, Dye as the DH. ;)

btrain929
06-17-2008, 09:38 AM
I don't see too much wrong with this. In fact I would go with Soto over AJ at this point. 3B is a toss up, both are having decent seasons, and I can't say this year Crede will give you better defense. I would want a bat like Fukudome's in the lineup of power hitters over Dye.

Rotation: Big Z, Vazquez, Floyd, Danks, Dempster (I can't believe Buehrle or Contreras would not be in here)

They are going off of performances this year, not from reputations. That's why Buehrle isn't in there. I'd probably try to squeeze Contreras in there somehow though by taking out Danks or Javy.

doublem23
06-17-2008, 09:40 AM
3B-Aramis Ramirez - Crede's D is way better but . . .


Not this year. Joe's been a butcher at third this season.

ondafarm
06-17-2008, 09:43 AM
Not this year. Joe's been a butcher at third this season.

Joe's butcher is still way better than Aramis' solid play and don't even throw Fields in the discussion.

soxpride724
06-17-2008, 09:56 AM
Johnson over Swisher has me shaking my head. Johnson is horrid as a full-time player.

But you forgot that spectacular catch he made against the Nationals....

kevingrt
06-17-2008, 10:10 AM
MANAGER-Lou Piniella - not even close

What is that suppose to mean?

CHISOXFAN13
06-17-2008, 10:20 AM
I think you could flip a coin on Marmol/Linebrink, too.

I'd go with the 1.29 ERA myself. Guy has been lights out.

doublem23
06-17-2008, 10:24 AM
Joe's butcher is still way better than Aramis' solid play and don't even throw Fields in the discussion.

Uh, OK... Nobody's talking about Fields... All I'm pointing out is that Joe's been pretty terrible in the field this year thus far.

Now that I havea 9-5, I don't get to watch the Cubs much, so I can't say how Aramis has been, but I find it hard to believe his defense (or lack thereof) could still be much worse than Crede's right now, although he'd have nothing to do with it.

hi im skot
06-17-2008, 10:29 AM
Seems pretty fair...but, seriously...who cares?

BigPapaPump
06-17-2008, 10:36 AM
How many of Crede's errors came at the beginning of the season? How many of them were throwing errors? The guy had almost a year off, I wouldn't say he's not a good fielder anymore just based on half a year of stats coming back from an injury. I'll take Crede and his clutch bat any day over Aramis.

RockyMtnSoxFan
06-17-2008, 11:05 AM
For the rest of the bullpen, I think you'd want mostly Sox players.

Closer: Jenks
RH Set up: Marmol
LH Set up: Thornton
RH Middle Relief: Dotel
LH Middle Relief: Logan
Long Relief: Masset

Note that this list only compares players for the role that they are in (you could say Wood is better than Dotel, but he's a closer). I think Masset is better than Wuertz despite the higher ERA, because he has better strikeout ratios and a lower WHIP. You could argue that Linebrink is better than Marmol, but Marmol has allowed only 3 of 24 inherited runners to score.

ondafarm
06-17-2008, 11:20 AM
Uh, OK... Nobody's talking about Fields... All I'm pointing out is that Joe's been pretty terrible in the field this year thus far.

.

And all I'm saying is that Joe has been pretty terrible for Joe this year. For the rest of the league he has been pretty solid. We've gotten spoiled with how good his defense really is at third and when he does look superb some fans think he sucks. Third base can be manned by a fireplug with a glove as long as he hits homers. That's about what the Cubs have.

asindc
06-17-2008, 11:20 AM
The only choice I would quibble with is possibly Fuko over Dye and maybe the Cubs' setup guy over Linebrink. Everything else seems okay.

spiffie
06-17-2008, 11:33 AM
For the rest of the bullpen, I think you'd want mostly Sox players.

Closer: Jenks
RH Set up: Marmol
LH Set up: Thornton
RH Middle Relief: Dotel
LH Middle Relief: Logan
Long Relief: Masset

Note that this list only compares players for the role that they are in (you could say Wood is better than Dotel, but he's a closer). I think Masset is better than Wuertz despite the higher ERA, because he has better strikeout ratios and a lower WHIP. You could argue that Linebrink is better than Marmol, but Marmol has allowed only 3 of 24 inherited runners to score.
Not sure how Logan gets in over Eyre at this point, considering Eyre's sub-1 ERA.

Thigpen "57"
06-17-2008, 11:39 AM
Definitely hard to pick between Linebrink and Marmol. Of course my biased choice is Scott, but Marmol has been clutch for them as well.

Same with the Dye/Fukudome dilemna. Dye has history, and has been solid with a good average and more power. Although, I think an argument can be made that Fukudome has made this Cubs lineup better also. The guy has adapted quite well in his first year in the US.

soxrme
06-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Johnson over Swisher has me shaking my head. Johnson is horrid as a full-time player.
Have you seen Swisher hit lately?

cheezheadsoxfan
06-17-2008, 12:29 PM
Joe's butcher is still way better than Aramis' solid play and don't even throw Fields in the discussion.

Even with the excessive errors (probably due to the year off) Joe still make plays Ramierz doesn't even get near.

moochpuppy
06-17-2008, 12:44 PM
Even with the excessive errors (probably due to the year off) Joe still make plays Ramierz doesn't even get near.

You could make an arguement for both players here but Ramirez's defense has been more solid half way through the season.

GoGoOzzie
06-17-2008, 12:56 PM
Johnson over Swisher has me shaking my head. Johnson is horrid as a full-time player.

That's a tough one and without having the numbers in front of me to compare the two I won't. But Swisher certainly hasn't been lighting the world on fire with his play lately either.

balke
06-17-2008, 12:59 PM
What's the starting rotation?

chaerulez
06-17-2008, 01:09 PM
I don't see how people think Ozzie is a better manager than Pinella. Ozzie is a good players guy, good for a sound bite and such but in terms of actual in game managing Pinella has him beat.

I think the whole team is pretty fair, but since when do we care about the Sun Times?

ChiSoxFan7
06-17-2008, 01:33 PM
this lineup would be pretty scary...


and yes dye is good, but fukodome is having a better season and from what i hear from my cub fan friends a really good (possible gold glove) fielder.


i know it's bad to judge what a fan says about a player but i still think fukodome has the edge in this one.

PicktoCLick72
06-17-2008, 02:25 PM
this lineup would be pretty scary...


and yes dye is good, but fukodome is having a better season and from what i hear from my cub fan friends a really good (possible gold glove) fielder.


i know it's bad to judge what a fan says about a player but i still think fukodome has the edge in this one.

Though this may be true, I would be careful listening to them too much.

Harry Chappas
06-17-2008, 03:29 PM
Joe's butcher is still way better than Aramis' solid play and don't even throw Fields in the discussion.

I can't stand "ARam" but it's tough to argue with his stats.

BadBobbyJenks
06-17-2008, 03:33 PM
Looks like it should be except for the riot. OC is a better at everything.

PorkChopExpress
06-17-2008, 03:41 PM
Not sure how Logan gets in over Eyre at this point, considering Eyre's sub-1 ERA.

Probably because that sub-1 ERA is only over 9.2 IP, while Logan had pitched 25 innings and done pretty well himself with an ERA in the 2's.

Madscout
06-17-2008, 06:42 PM
What's the starting rotation?
Zambozo
Vazquez
Danks
Floyd
Dempster (right now, probably MB by the end of the year)

Vernam
06-17-2008, 07:09 PM
That would make for a pretty formidable lineup.Just a rhetorical question, but how many of us would approve a merger of the two teams if it'd mean a powerhouse that annually challenges for a World Series?

Anyone? No?

What if the team kept the Sox name (after all, they have it in common) and played in the AL?

Okay, okay . . . They'd also play at USCF. Happy?! :)

Back on-topic, Fukodome is the most over-hyped pickup since Soriano, who was the most since Pierre, etc., etc.

Vernam

ChiSoxFan7
06-17-2008, 07:41 PM
Back on-topic, Fukodome is the most over-hyped pickup since Soriano, who was the most since Pierre, etc., etc.

Vernam


he's batting .293 after batting .247 in the past 30 days. i think that speaks for how well he was doing. granted he has cooled off,

but i don't think he is as overated as the above stated....not yet.

if he returns back to earlier form, he is a good/solid player.

Vernam
06-17-2008, 11:17 PM
if he returns back to earlier form, he is a good/solid player.I didn't say he stunk, just that he's over-hyped. Good/solid players generally don't get feature stories in Sports Illustrated before they've played a single MLB inning, and they don't generally have fans chanting their names after one home run. A corner outfielder at Wrigley with 5 HR on June 17 isn't anything special, IMO.

Vernam

chisoxmike
06-18-2008, 12:16 AM
The only thing I would switch is AJ at C.

thedudeabides
06-18-2008, 12:41 AM
The only thing I would switch is AJ at C.

And Cabrera at SS. Theriot has been a better hitter than expected, but is barely passable as a SS. Fukodome and Soto have been struggling a bit as of late, but so has Quentin. Ramirez will get adjusted to at some point. These are the ups and downs of young players with little time at the major league level. The true talent will show. Fukodome is a good defender and a good contact hitter, but he's not exactly everything I thought he'd be to this point. It'll be interesting to see how all of these players finish the season, let alone the next few years. They all seem to have pretty complete games,(witht the exception of Theriot at SS) but I think Quentin is the best bet in the long run. A lot of good young talent in Chicago, not to mention the pitching. I think Dempster hasn't received enough credit, although it's a big question as to whether his arm can retain it's strength throughout the whole year. He hasn't started in what 5-6 years?

Jerome
06-18-2008, 12:50 AM
I'd be happy with the entire Cubs lineup and the entire Sox pitching staff, what a team. Cubs are going to be very very good this year if the pitching holds up. (Although we saw tonight that even the 27 Yankees can struggle at Tropicana)

BadBobbyJenks
06-18-2008, 12:54 AM
I will reiterate there is now way The Riot starts over OC.

Nellie_Fox
06-18-2008, 01:01 AM
Just a rhetorical question, but how many of us would approve a merger of the two teams if it'd mean a powerhouse that annually challenges for a World Series?

Anyone? No?

What if the team kept the Sox name (after all, they have it in common) and played in the AL?

Okay, okay . . . They'd also play at USCF. Happy?! :)

So essentially you're asking if I'd be okay with disbanding the Cubs, tearing down Wrigley, and giving the Sox first choice of any of the Cubs players? Yeah, I'm okay with that.

Vernam
06-18-2008, 02:23 AM
So essentially you're asking if I'd be okay with disbanding the Cubs, tearing down Wrigley, and giving the Sox first choice of any of the Cubs players? Yeah, I'm okay with that.OK. Now what if the team had to play at Wrigley?

Even if they played at USCF, that would mean we'd have to consort with North Siders on a regular basis. I'm not sure even a dynasty is worth that. :wink:

Vernam

Nellie_Fox
06-18-2008, 03:01 AM
OK. Now what if the team had to play at Wrigley?No.

IlliniSox4Life
06-18-2008, 03:19 AM
The truth is, picking the best player at a position and picking the best players for a lineup are two entirely different things.

I haven't been following the Cubs all that much this year, and I know Soriano is injured, but he is still probably the best leadoff hitter between the two teams. Considering that, you would probably want him leading off for the All-Chicago team, and he isn't one of the 3 best outfielders in the city (Quentin, Dye, Fukudome). Considering none of them are a CF, you are probably stuck with Soriano and Quentin, leaving both Dye and Fukudome off.

ondafarm
06-18-2008, 09:29 AM
So essentially you're asking if I'd be okay with disbanding the Cubs, tearing down Wrigley, and giving the Sox first choice of any of the Cubs players? Yeah, I'm okay with that.


Heck, I'm okay with any two outta three of those.

PatK
06-18-2008, 12:27 PM
Fukudome has done nothing on the road. My Cubs fan friends are calling him FukuHomey.

Aramis' defense looks decent because he's got a Gold Glove first baseman. He doesn't have nearly the range Crede does, and if Lee wasn't a 6'5" vacuum, he'd be up around the league lead in errors for a 3rd baseman.

AJ over Soto makes sense. Soto has more power, but not a whole hell of a lot more RBIs when you consider AJ has been hitting from the 2 spot. And his average has dropped considerably.

I'm not buying the "superstar" labels I see applied to Fukudome and Soto at this point in their careers. Let's see what they can do over the course of an entire season, not what they've done in less than half of one.

rookie
06-18-2008, 06:30 PM
I don't see how people think Ozzie is a better manager than Pinella. Ozzie is a good players guy, good for a sound bite and such but in terms of actual in game managing Pinella has him beat.

Yeah, how about that managing in the playoffs? Pulling your ace in Game 1 so you could save him for the Game 4 that never was.