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getonbckthr
06-14-2008, 12:56 PM
Do the Sox really need to make any moves? Looking at the team now sure it would be nice to get a true leadoff hitter and some speed. However where on this team do we need a replacement? Our 4 outfielders are set. In the infield ALexei has established himself as the starter with Pablo and Uribe as serviceable backups. AJ and Hall locked in. Rotation wise our worst right now is Burls and he is showing signs of coming back, and you can't have an issue with the bullpen. I don't want to say perfect, but are the most SET team in baseball right now?

Lip Man 1
06-14-2008, 01:02 PM
Still too early to tell what the situation of the club will be come mid July. Injuries could happen, Kenny could finally decide to get rid of someone (Uribe?) and you never know who may unexpectedly be made available.

At this point I don't see any major moves coming but I can see Kenny making a tweak or two.

Lip

The Immigrant
06-14-2008, 01:06 PM
We need a pinch runner for late innings, someone who can steal 2nd and also be a threat to steal 3rd. Someone on a team that is already out of contention. :whistle:

getonbckthr
06-14-2008, 01:10 PM
We need a pinch runner for late innings, someone who can steal 2nd and also be a threat to steal 3rd. Someone on a team that is already out of contention. :whistle:
I think we have that with Pablo and Anderson.

LITTLE NELL
06-14-2008, 01:16 PM
I would like the Sox to try Alexei at leadoff with OC batting 2nd were he's more comfortable.I dont get to see the Sox much on TV, only on WGN and ESPN. My only question is can Alexei be a basestealing threat?

cws05champ
06-14-2008, 01:22 PM
I think we have that with Pablo and Anderson.
I don't think so...Anderson is not a true base stealing threat. He's a nice runner but no one the opposition will be concerned with on the bases. And Pablo...to me it seems like he has a lost a little burst this year after his leg injury. He doesn't seem to be the same threat.

IMO I think Pablo and Uribe are basically the same, Pablo a little more speed, Uribe better defense. I would rather we bring up Owens for the late inning pinch runner and release or trade Pablo.
With Ramirez ability to play 2B, SS and Uribe's ability to play 2B, 3B, SS, we should be covered in the IF.

turners56
06-14-2008, 02:19 PM
If we need a true pinch runner, call Owens up when the roster expands. If we want a full-time legitimate lead off hitter who is a threat to steal the entire game, I'd say Kenny Lofton.

rocky biddle
06-14-2008, 02:32 PM
From what the Chicago media has told me, all the good players are being traded to the Cubs.

turners56
06-14-2008, 02:38 PM
From what the Chicago media has told me, all the good players are being traded to the Cubs.

You know what's interesting? Whether or not the Cubs have a chance at C.C. Sabathia may lie in the hands of the White Sox. If the White Sox have a big enough lead by the trade deadline, Cleveland will be more than obliged to give up a guy they can't possibly sign for some prospects.

eastchicagosoxfan
06-14-2008, 02:41 PM
Would a different option at back up catcher be a good idea? Toby Hall is a good hitter, but neither he nor AJ can shut down a running game. In place of Hall, how about a no hit-cannon arm in the Officer Karko mold? Look at what Pods did yesterday. I'm thinking about a late inning guy, and losing quite a bit of pop on AJ's off days.

Tragg
06-14-2008, 02:50 PM
We could swap out Uribe or Ozuna for a better bat. We could find one for virtually nothing if we wanted...or both for a bat = Richar. (unless Pablo is the only person on the roster who can back up at third).

DickAllen72
06-14-2008, 03:04 PM
We could swap out Uribe or Ozuna for a better bat. We could find one for virtually nothing if we wanted...or both for a bat = Richar. (unless Pablo is the only person on the roster who can back up at third).
Uribe plays a good defensive 3rd base.

The Immigrant
06-14-2008, 03:14 PM
You know what's interesting? Whether or not the Cubs have a chance at C.C. Sabathia may lie in the hands of the White Sox. If the White Sox have a big enough lead by the trade deadline, Cleveland will be more than obliged to give up a guy they can't possibly sign for some prospects.

Cleveland knows it will get two draft picks for Sabathia. They are loaded with pitching prospects and need offense, particularly in the infield. What can the Cubs reasonably offer that (a) fills that need and (b) is a better bounty than two draft picks for an organization that drafts and develops well?

Don't say Ronny Cedeno.

turners56
06-14-2008, 03:22 PM
Cleveland knows it will get two draft picks for Sabathia. They are loaded with pitching prospects and need offense, particularly in the infield. What can the Cubs reasonably offer that (a) fills that need and (b) is a better bounty than two draft picks for an organization that drafts and develops well?

Don't say Ronny Cedeno.

I've thought of that before actually, they don't have much to lose even when they do keep Sabathia and fail to sign him.

And no, I will not say Ronny Cedeno. All the Cubs prospects are extremely over-rated, maybe it's because the Tribune helps Hendry with that affair.

getonbckthr
06-14-2008, 03:32 PM
I've thought of that before actually, they don't have much to lose even when they do keep Sabathia and fail to sign him.

And no, I will not say Ronny Cedeno. All the Cubs prospects are extremely over-rated, maybe it's because the Tribune helps Hendry with that affair.
I think we have had some over hyped prospects of our own.

turners56
06-14-2008, 03:35 PM
I think we have had some over hyped prospects of our own.

If anything, the prospects we had were over-hyped within the organization, not so much nationally. It seems like every GM is interested in Ronny Cedeno and Felix Pie or something. Remember Francis Beltran? He was deemed untouchable. Right now, he is untouchable, nobody wants him.

southside rocks
06-14-2008, 05:32 PM
We need a pinch runner for late innings, someone who can steal 2nd and also be a threat to steal 3rd. Someone on a team that is already out of contention. :whistle:

You miss Chicago, don't you, Pods?

gosox41
06-14-2008, 10:26 PM
Do the Sox really need to make any moves? Looking at the team now sure it would be nice to get a true leadoff hitter and some speed. However where on this team do we need a replacement? Our 4 outfielders are set. In the infield ALexei has established himself as the starter with Pablo and Uribe as serviceable backups. AJ and Hall locked in. Rotation wise our worst right now is Burls and he is showing signs of coming back, and you can't have an issue with the bullpen. I don't want to say perfect, but are the most SET team in baseball right now?

Yes, we need a true lead off hitter. Second base seems the most likely possibility since the Sox can't trade Thome and won't release him outright. But if not second base or DH, pick another slow, power hitting bopper and replace him wtih a true lead off hitter who can help this team manufacture runs more then once every blue moon.


Take away the one great week of hitting and this offense isn't really that good.


Bob

DickAllen72
06-14-2008, 10:47 PM
We need a true number three or four hitter. Unfortunately, you usually don't just pick one up at the deadline.

whitesox901
06-14-2008, 11:09 PM
too bad we cant get Fielder from Milwaukee

the1tab
06-14-2008, 11:11 PM
If anything, the prospects we had were over-hyped within the organization, not so much nationally. It seems like every GM is interested in Ronny Cedeno and Felix Pie or something. Remember Francis Beltran? He was deemed untouchable. Right now, he is untouchable, nobody wants him.

While we're all so fast to hate on the Cubs farm system, note that Ryan Theriot, Geovany Soto, Ronny Cedeno, Mike Fontenot, Carlos Zambrano, Sean Gallagher, Carlos Marmol, Michael Wuertz, and Kerry Wood are all players that were brought up to the majors from the Cubs farm system.

Also, if there's a GM that can churn the hype machine in major league baseball, Jim Hendry might be the best. While I appreciate you hating on Francis Beltran, I also remember that Hendry turned Hee Seop Choi into Derrek Lee and Bobby Hill into Aramis Ramirez. He also turned Sammy Sosa into Mike Fontenot, which, at this point, looks like a win for the Cubs.

While the Cubs have a deeper and (deserved or not) apparently held in higher esteem farm system, the Sox have some intriguing plays to make. What to do w/ Thome? Uribe? Konerko? Cabrera? While I am a full believer in the "If it ain't broke" axiom, I also look at a team that is in position to put a foot on the throat of this division... but we CANNOT get swept by Detroit and then lose a game to the flippin' Rockies. There are players out there on teams that just need to wake up and they might become fairly easily had. Brian Roberts? Rocco Baldelli? The annual Jason Bay watch? I'll tell ya what... if Kenny could convince Jim Hendry to negotiate a Haeger-for-Bay trade w/ Pittsburgh, that would be great. A three hitter would be nice.

I also agree that the Sox dominance in the AL Central will determine if CC is available to the Cubs. I'm not sure Minnesota starts selling, and Detroit's bipolar season might keep anyone from imploding their 40 year old roster to rebuild around Granderson and Cabrera. Inge catching again? C'mon Leyland...

Lip Man 1
06-15-2008, 12:06 AM
Dick:

I disagree with you. If it were possible, the Sox don't need another "power/slugger" type guy to replace a Thome or Konerko.

They need guys who can get on base, run, steal, handle a bat, advance runners.

But those don't grow on trees and the chances of getting one or two during the season are slim.

You might be able to get these type of players this winter though.

Lip

Lip Man 1
06-15-2008, 12:10 AM
1Tab:

What you said is not quite true. The Cubs were helped in LARGE part in the Lee and Ramirez deals because they were willing to take on salaries at the time. The other clubs in the division if memory serves, specifically with Ramirez, had no desire to add that high of a salary and also didn't have a need for a 3rd baseman. Ramirez originally passed through waivers and the only team in the division that put in a claim was the Cubs. (I remember Hangar 18 making these points and they had validity to them.)

Sometimes being in the right place at the right time (luck) plays a part in these things. Certainly Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Milwaukee are never going to have big payrolls or take on salary, that's simply not the way they do things.

Lip

eriqjaffe
06-15-2008, 12:35 AM
All of this team's problems could be solved by a scheduled weekly managerial tirade.

DickAllen72
06-15-2008, 12:40 AM
Dick:

I disagree with you. If it were possible, the Sox don't need another "power/slugger" type guy to replace a Thome or Konerko.

They need guys who can get on base, run, steal, handle a bat, advance runners.

But those don't grow on trees and the chances of getting one or two during the season are slim.

You might be able to get these type of players this winter though.

Lip
Well Thome and Konerko certainly haven't been getting the job done the past couple of seasons. And neither one is really a number three hitter anyway, even when they are hitting.

It's just a silly pipedream, but just imagine this same team except replace Konerko at 1B with the 1972 version of Dick Allen. What a difference that would make.

Or replace Thome at DH with Frank Thomas in his prime. See what I mean?

EDIT: How about we replace one slugger and acquire one speedster? Lofton is out there for the signing and Fields is sitting in AAA. Platoon them at DH and spot start them in the field.

The Immigrant
06-15-2008, 08:46 AM
You miss Chicago, don't you, Pods?

I was talking about Willy Taveras. :tongue:

Garland_IS_God
06-15-2008, 09:00 AM
I'd love to pick up Willy Taveras. God that guy can still some bags! Just ask AJ.

MCHSoxFan
06-15-2008, 11:18 AM
Do the Sox really need to make any moves? Looking at the team now sure it would be nice to get a true leadoff hitter and some speed. However where on this team do we need a replacement? Our 4 outfielders are set. In the infield ALexei has established himself as the starter with Pablo and Uribe as serviceable backups. AJ and Hall locked in. Rotation wise our worst right now is Burls and he is showing signs of coming back, and you can't have an issue with the bullpen. I don't want to say perfect, but are the most SET team in baseball right now?

Yes, I really, REALLY want a real, true lead-off man. However, if the White Sox can really play like they should and CAN, we are perfect in my mind. I said during the off-season, out of every team in the A.L. Central, the White Sox are the most balanced.

MCHSoxFan
06-15-2008, 11:19 AM
I'd love to pick up Willy Taveras. God that guy can still some bags! Just ask AJ.


Don't remind me! :(:

Ziggy S
06-15-2008, 01:09 PM
And no, I will not say Ronny Cedeno. All the Cubs prospects are extremely over-rated, maybe it's because the Tribune helps Hendry with that affair.

HENDRY THE THIEF

southside rocks
06-15-2008, 01:37 PM
I was talking about Willy Taveras. :tongue:

Oops. :redface:

russ99
06-15-2008, 02:12 PM
We need a true number three or four hitter. Unfortunately, you usually don't just pick one up at the deadline.

Quentin's pretty solid at 3 and we're not getting rid of any of Konerko/Thome/Dye at least until this offseason.

We really only need 2 things.

A true leadoff hitter (could Jose Reyes really be available?!?) and someone with some power off the bench. I'm not sure what we have to deal woud get either, though. Plus with the Sox in 1st, Crede most likely won't be dealt.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 02:17 PM
Quentin's pretty solid at 3 and we're not getting rid of any of Konerko/Thome/Dye at least until this offseason.

We really only need 2 things.

A true leadoff hitter (could Jose Reyes really be available?!?) and someone with some power off the bench. I'm not sure what we have to deal woud get either, though. Plus with the Sox in 1st, Crede most likely won't be dealt.
Jose Reyes means us losing one of, if not both Danks and Floyd. Thats just a start of negotiations.

TDog
06-15-2008, 02:46 PM
The Sox probably aren't going to be able to get anything of value for prospects that people would want to give up. They shouldn't trade any of their major-league-level pitching. People would like to trade Jim Thome, but any team that would trade for Jim Thome isn't going to give up what the White Sox are looking for.

I would have no problem trading Josh Fields. I don't know how much trade value White Sox bench players have, but the position player than most doesn't fit on the team is Nick Swisher. He could be most easily replaced on the Sox. Unfortunately, I don't think his trade value is as high as the White Sox believed it was when they traded for him.

The Sox aren't going to alienate their fans by giving up on the season and they aren't going to be able to turn over the superfluous components of the current team into a player or players that will make everything better.

I don't see any promise in the trade deadline.

jabrch
06-15-2008, 02:57 PM
Jose Reyes means us losing one of, if not both Danks and Floyd. Thats just a start of negotiations.

If one of those two plus Fields gets us Reyes - it would still be a steal...

btrain929
06-15-2008, 03:51 PM
I think we have that with Pablo and Anderson.

If it's just for pinch-running duties, we can bring up Owens for that instead of trading for somebody.

btrain929
06-15-2008, 03:56 PM
If one of those two plus Fields gets us Reyes - it would still be a steal...

Unfortunately they have no need for our biggest trading chip (Fields) with David Wright over there.

btrain929
06-15-2008, 04:00 PM
Would a different option at back up catcher be a good idea? Toby Hall is a good hitter, but neither he nor AJ can shut down a running game. In place of Hall, how about a no hit-cannon arm in the Officer Karko mold? Look at what Pods did yesterday. I'm thinking about a late inning guy, and losing quite a bit of pop on AJ's off days.

No.

1) If we do that we'd only shut down runners once every 7-8 games when AJ gets a break. And if you wanted to use this catcher in late inning situations (what you suggested), can you imagine the explosion of AJ getting replaced every night/every other night in the 7th inning?
2) If we implemented either of those suggestions above, that still HARDLY improves our team as a whole and barely makes us a better contending team in the playoffs.

I'd love an impact bat that can make sure our offense doesn't fall in extended droughts. We can use any of Fields, Broadway, Konerko, (Poreda?), maybe a bullpen guy or so, and see what we can get.

russ99
06-15-2008, 04:35 PM
Jose Reyes means us losing one of, if not both Danks and Floyd. Thats just a start of negotiations.

In an equal market, yes. But if the Mets are anxious to part ways maybe it's Broadway and Egbert, plus other players. For a perfect example, look at what the Mets ended giving up for Santana, instead of what the Twins initially wanted, needless to say also what the Red Sox/Yankees were willing to give up to outbid the other one.

That's to say we may not have the pieces to make that kind of blockbuster deal, but if things continue as they are, Kenny's bound to do something to improve the lineup. We're way too close to a top-level club for Kenny and Jerry to give up on this season.

I'm also of a mindset that it has to be a blow-away deal to deal Fields, since it's pretty doubtful Crede will re-sign and we'd have a huge gap there for '09.

RockJock07
06-15-2008, 04:55 PM
In an equal market, yes. But if the Mets are anxious to part ways maybe it's Broadway and Egbert, plus other players. For a perfect example, look at what the Mets ended giving up for Santana, instead of what the Twins initially wanted, needless to say also what the Red Sox/Yankees were willing to give up to outbid the other one.

That's to say we may not have the pieces to make that kind of blockbuster deal, but if things continue as they are, Kenny's bound to do something to improve the lineup. We're way too close to a top-level club for Kenny and Jerry to give up on this season.

I'm also of a mindset that it has to be a blow-away deal to deal Fields, since it's pretty doubtful Crede will re-sign and we'd have a huge gap there for '09.

I don't mind trading prospects but giving up fields would hurt. The problem is that he's our only chip we have to wager that anyone wants. The situation is made worse by the fact that Joe Crede will not be in a Sox uniform next season.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2008, 05:42 PM
What this team NEEDS is speed and the ability to get on base and do the little things. There is at least one guy out there who can do that: Roberts (Taveras can too, but what's his OBP right now??). Now, if we have what it takes to get either one of those guys is a totally different question. And I'd go with: no.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 05:47 PM
What this team NEEDS is speed and the ability to get on base and do the little things. There is at least one guy out there who can do that: Roberts (Taveras can too, but what's his OBP right now??). Now, if we have what it takes to get either one of those guys is a totally different question. And I'd go with: no.
Brian Roberts is an interesting situation. Internally here at the Sox here is what we have. We have Ramirez who can play 2nd and SS. CF he is ok but not needed. Then we have Cabrera at SS. Where would Roberts fit in?
.. From the Baltimore point of view it wouldn't be a matter of having enough. It would be a matter of ownership pulling the trigger, which apparently is the reason Roberts isn't on the Northside right now.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2008, 05:50 PM
Brian Roberts is an interesting situation. Internally here at the Sox here is what we have. We have Ramirez who can play 2nd and SS. CF he is ok but not needed. Then we have Cabrera at SS. Where would Roberts fit in?
.. From the Baltimore point of view it wouldn't be a matter of having enough. It would be a matter of ownership pulling the trigger, which apparently is the reason Roberts isn't on the Northside right now.
As much as I like Alexei, I'd take Roberts over him in a heart beat. But, as I mentioned I don't think we have enough pieces to get him. And as you mentioned I don't know if Baltimore's ownership would be willing to part with him.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 06:14 PM
As much as I like Alexei, I'd take Roberts over him in a heart beat. But, as I mentioned I don't think we have enough pieces to get him. And as you mentioned I don't know if Baltimore's ownership would be willing to part with him.
OK so take whatever offer we would send to Baltimore and throw Alexei in there in addition would you still make the trade? Essentially thats what you would be doing.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2008, 06:28 PM
OK so take whatever offer we would send to Baltimore and throw Alexei in there in addition would you still make the trade? Essentially thats what you would be doing.
Hmmm....I was thinking more along the lines of "Make Alexei a bench player and in '09 he's your starting shortstop."

Before the season started it was assumed that in order to get Roberts Fields would have to be dealt. Since we truly are in win now mode I still think that that deal would make sense (but Fields is having a down year currently).

I think it depends on the trade, I wouldn't want to send BOTH Alexei and Fields over to Baltimore because then you're trying to fill the entire left side of your infield in the off season. If it came down to a "one or the other" type scenario I'd trade Fields simply because he's a one tool player offensively. He'll hit HRs, but I don't think he's going to hit for a high average nor will he walk an awful lot. Alexei on the other hand seems to be the sort of guy that CAN hit for power, lay down a bunt, steal a bag, and also provides better defense than Fields. That's my rationale though. I still don't think we have enough of what it would take to get Roberts however.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 06:30 PM
Hmmm....I was thinking more along the lines of "Make Alexei a bench player and in '09 he's your starting shortstop."

Before the season started it was assumed that in order to get Roberts Fields would have to be dealt. Since we truly are in win now mode I still think that that deal would make sense (but Fields is having a down year currently).

I think it depends on the trade, I wouldn't want to send BOTH Alexei and Fields over to Baltimore because then you're trying to fill the entire left side of your infield in the off season. If it came down to a "one or the other" type scenario I'd trade Fields simply because he's a one tool player offensively. He'll hit HRs, but I don't think he's going to hit for a high average nor will he walk an awful lot. Alexei on the other hand seems to be the sort of guy that CAN hit for power, lay down a bunt, steal a bag, and also provides better defense than Fields. That's my rationale though. I still don't think we have enough of what it would take to get Roberts however.
I didnt mean actually send Alexei to Baltimore. But by adding Roberts for the 08 season ALexei would be limited to a minor role possibly to an extent where KW might demote so he would play everyday.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2008, 06:46 PM
If the season progresses the way it has so far, the Mariners, Royals, Nats, Reds, Bucs, Astros, Rockies, Giants, Dodgers and Padres might be sellers. Among those teams' decent average and/or speedy hitters, these players could help the Sox and might be had for prospects:

Kaz Matsui/Astros
Juan Pierre/Dodgers
Ryan Freel/Reds
David DeJesus/Royals
Randy Winn/Giants
Jason Bay/Pirates

Any of these names interest anyone?

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 06:49 PM
If the season progresses the way it has so far, the Mariners, Royals, Nats, Reds, Bucs, Astros, Rockies, Giants, Dodgers and Padres might be sellers. Among those teams' decent average and/or speedy hitters, these players could help the Sox and might be had for prospects:

Kaz Matsui/Astros
Juan Pierre/Dodgers
Ryan Freel/Reds
David DeJesus/Royals
Randy Winn/Giants
Jason Bay/Pirates

Any of these names interest anyone?
Matsui- I'm pretty sure Houston has him in their long term plans.
Pierre- How much are the LAD willing to throw in cash wise?
Freel- Absolutely.
Dejesus- I'd be surprised if he was available and I don't know if he is much of an upgrade.
Winn- Eh, no thanks.
Bay- I'm pretty sure PiTT will keep him and instead trade Nady.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2008, 06:58 PM
Matsui- I'm pretty sure Houston has him in their long term plans.
Pierre- How much are the LAD willing to throw in cash wise?
Freel- Absolutely.
Dejesus- I'd be surprised if he was available and I don't know if he is much of an upgrade.
Winn- Eh, no thanks.
Bay- I'm pretty sure PiTT will keep him and instead trade Nady.

I could take Nady, too, but he's not as much of a base stealing threat as Bay.

This guy isn't a base stealing threat, either, but the Mariners' Raul Ibanez sure loves hitting at the Cell.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 07:00 PM
I could take Nady, too, but he's not as much of a base stealing threat as Bay.

This guy isn't a base stealing threat, either, but the Mariners' Raul Ibanez sure loves hitting at the Cell.
What sucks we keep running into the same problem who are we gonna move? I would love Ibanez but who are we gonna bench or release Dye, Quentin, Swisher, PK or Thome?

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2008, 07:03 PM
What sucks we keep running into the same problem who are we gonna move? I would love Ibanez but who are we gonna bench or release Dye, Quentin, Swisher, PK or Thome?

If Swisher, Thome or PK keep playing terrible, sooner or later you have to bench one of them.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 07:05 PM
If Swisher, Thome or PK keep playing terrible, sooner or later you have to bench one of them.
Release Uribe, replace with a Ibanez trade could work. Thome only faces righties.

Tragg
06-15-2008, 07:06 PM
Yea, let's send every decent young player for a .350 obp player with an alleged history of steroid use.
Thank goodness we didn't make a give 'em everything we have trade like that in 2005...although the elite AJ burnett seems to be available again.

MCHSoxFan
06-15-2008, 07:10 PM
What this team NEEDS is speed and the ability to get on base and do the little things. There is at least one guy out there who can do that: Roberts (Taveras can too, but what's his OBP right now??). Now, if we have what it takes to get either one of those guys is a totally different question. And I'd go with: no.

Yep. That is EXACTLY what we need.

BTW: 1,300TH POST!!!

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 07:31 PM
If the season progresses the way it has so far, the Mariners, Royals, Nats, Reds, Bucs, Astros, Rockies, Giants, Dodgers and Padres might be sellers. Among those teams' decent average and/or speedy hitters, these players could help the Sox and might be had for prospects:

Kaz Matsui/Astros
Juan Pierre/Dodgers
Ryan Freel/Reds
David DeJesus/Royals
Randy Winn/Giants
Jason Bay/Pirates

Any of these names interest anyone?
-Matsui sucks and has a horrible contract. He really doesn't offer anything that Ramirez can't give you.
-Pierre sucks and has an even worse contract.
-Freel sucks and is on the DL.
-DeJesus is very, very good and probably isn't on the block.
-Winn is decent but I've got no idea where you'd want to play him.
-Bay isn't available for what we'd be selling.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2008, 08:03 PM
The "where's he gonna play" mantra shouldn't apply when three or four of your hitters are performing terribly.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 08:17 PM
The "where's he gonna play" mantra shouldn't apply when three or four of your hitters are performing terribly.
Nevermind the fact that Swisher is putting up a line of .286/.352/.592 thus far in June. So where do you want to put Pierre?

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2008, 08:19 PM
So where do you want to put Pierre?

Leadoff! :tongue:






Oh, you meant position! DH and fourth OF. :D:

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Leadoff! :tongue:






Oh, you meant position! DH and fourth OF. :D:
Nine million a year for a guy who plays all three OF positions like garbage sounds like a horrendous waste of resources. Let the Dodgers waste their money.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2008, 08:37 PM
Nine million a year for a guy who plays all three OF positions like garbage sounds like a horrendous waste of resources. Let the Dodgers waste their money.

OK, what if you can get the Dodgers to send some cash to the Sox?

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 08:40 PM
OK, what if you can get the Dodgers to send some cash to the Sox?
I'd still have absolutely no interest in acquiring him. .276/.335/.312

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 08:40 PM
OK, what if you can get the Dodgers to send some cash to the Sox?
So Pierre would be about 4.5 for this season? Maybe 3 million for next season and 1 for 08?

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2008, 09:04 PM
I'd still have absolutely no interest in acquiring him. .276/.335/.312

That's right, you're content to stick with the Mendoza brothers and a lineup that is incapable of manufacturing runs.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:08 PM
That's right, you're content to stick with the Mendoza brothers and a lineup that is incapable of manufacturing runs.
Do you really think Pierre would make this offense that much better? I'm content with what we have if the only option is taking on an upper middle-class man's Jerry Owens.

If we want to pursue legitimate offensive players, Juan Pierre would be dead last on the list.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 09:10 PM
Pierre's 26 SB's and 27 runs scored suck as well.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:12 PM
Pierre's 26 SB's and 27 runs scored suck as well.
I don't really think that makes up for how below average he is offensively.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 09:16 PM
Scotty Pods OBP with us was .350 in 05, .330 in 06 and .299 in 07. Pierre right now is at .336, career .347. By the way Pods career OBP is .336.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:17 PM
Scotty Pods OBP with us was .350 in 05, .330 in 06 and .299 in 07. Pierre right now is at .336, career .347. By the way Pods career OBP is .336.
I fail to see your point. I want nothing to do with either player, and citing Pierre's current OBP doesn't really do anything for me.

DSpivack
06-15-2008, 09:18 PM
I fail to see your point. I want nothing to do with either player, and citing Pierre's current OBP doesn't really do anything for me.

I think his point was that Pierre is no better an option than Podsednik.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 09:19 PM
I fail to see your point. I want nothing to do with either player, and citing Pierre's current OBP doesn't really do anything for me.
I'm trying to figure out where he is so bad on offense? Cause he doesn't hit homers?

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 09:20 PM
I think his point was that Pierre is no better an option than Podsednik.
Kind of. I'm saying he is a similar offensive option but defensively Pierre by a large margin.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:21 PM
I'm trying to figure out where he is so bad on offense? Cause he doesn't hit homers?
.275/.336/.312 and sucks on defense. He steals bases at 80%. Great. That's an asset that is valuable if you are proficient in other areas, but if that's the crutch you're leaning on, you better be damn good on the field.

He just doesn't hit. Eight XBH thus far this season.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:21 PM
Kind of. I'm saying he is a similar offensive option but defensively Pierre by a large margin.
I don't see how Pierre is better by a large margin in the field. They both aren't very good and possess putrid "arms."

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 09:25 PM
.275/.336/.312 and sucks on defense. He steals bases at 80%. Great. That's an asset that is valuable if you are proficient in other areas, but if that's the crutch you're leaning on, you better be damn good on the field.

He just doesn't hit. Eight XBH thus far this season.
He doesn't suck on defense. He gets pretty much every ball. Sure his arm could be better. Offensively he would be a leadoff hitter. You don't need a great slugger leading off. His OBP of .336 is fine. People love Pods cause of 05 and he was at .350. It ain't a great amount of differnce. The most important aspect he would bring is a threat on the bases. Pitchers pitch differently which a SB threat out there opposed to an AJ or Dye. With Pierre on base there is a better chance of a pitcher hanging a curve/slider and misplacing a fastball.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:29 PM
He doesn't suck on defense. He gets pretty much every ball. Sure his arm could be better. Offensively he would be a leadoff hitter. You don't need a great slugger leading off. His OBP of .336 is fine. People love Pods cause of 05 and he was at .350. It ain't a great amount of differnce. The most important aspect he would bring is a threat on the bases. Pitchers pitch differently which a SB threat out there opposed to an AJ or Dye. With Pierre on base there is a better chance of a pitcher hanging a curve/slider and misplacing a fastball.
He doesn't get pretty much every ball. Speed does not equal range. You don't need a great slugger leading off, but that doesn't mean the ability to poke a double in the gap isn't valuable. People loved Pods when he was effective in the first half and had an OBP of .369.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2008, 09:30 PM
He doesn't suck on defense. He gets pretty much every ball. Sure his arm could be better. Offensively he would be a leadoff hitter. You don't need a great slugger leading off. His OBP of .336 is fine. People love Pods cause of 05 and he was at .350. It ain't a great amount of differnce. The most important aspect he would bring is a threat on the bases. Pitchers pitch differently which a SB threat out there opposed to an AJ or Dye. With Pierre on base there is a better chance of a pitcher hanging a curve/slider and misplacing a fastball.
This is where I'm going to disagree with you, out of my leadoff guy I want OBP of AT LEAST .350, I don't give a damn how many extra basehits he has or what his OPS or OPS+ is, but you need to get on to steal bases. And I just don't think a .337 OBP is going to cut it. However if we do get him, it's not out of the question that he gets hot for us and manages to get on a bit more often than that.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:32 PM
Here's the problem if you acquire him: you've got him for another two seasons at a very high price.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2008, 09:34 PM
Here's the problem if you acquire him: you've got him for another two seasons at a very high price.
Presumably if you acquire him, LA is going to be eating SOME of the cost.

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 09:37 PM
Presumably if you acquire him, LA is going to be eating SOME of the cost.
I really don't think it'd be worth it at half the price. Hell, Jerry Owens is probably as good as him at league minimum.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 09:48 PM
This is where I'm going to disagree with you, out of my leadoff guy I want OBP of AT LEAST .350, I don't give a damn how many extra basehits he has or what his OPS or OPS+ is, but you need to get on to steal bases. And I just don't think a .337 OBP is going to cut it. However if we do get him, it's not out of the question that he gets hot for us and manages to get on a bit more often than that.
I don't know how you feel but many people want to see Pods back, Pods isn't much better than Pierre and for the career Pierre actually has a higher OBP.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2008, 12:27 AM
I don't know how you feel but many people want to see Pods back, Pods isn't much better than Pierre and for the career Pierre actually has a higher OBP.
I'd like Pods back too but that's for strictly sentimental reasons. Right now he is hitting .222 with a .311 OBP, his best years have passed. Pods is not the answer. Hopefully one day he can play some role in the organization.

btrain929
06-16-2008, 01:37 AM
I would say work out an extension with Crede ASAP so we can use Fields + others for an impact bat. Not a 1 year rental, but a good impact bat. Jason Bay comes to mind, but we don't have any room as far as corner OF's go. I think the positions we can upgrade at would be CF and 2B realistically (I say realistically because we're not going to bench Konerko or Thome if a 1B or DH was available).

RockJock07
06-16-2008, 02:06 PM
I would say work out an extension with Crede ASAP so we can use Fields + others for an impact bat. Not a 1 year rental, but a good impact bat. Jason Bay comes to mind, but we don't have any room as far as corner OF's go. I think the positions we can upgrade at would be CF and 2B realistically (I say realistically because we're not going to bench Konerko or Thome if a 1B or DH was available).

I don't want to re-sign crede. To me he's not going to be worth 40-50 mil. I'm sorry, he's just not. However, if you want a leadoff guy some have mentioned Jose Reyes.

That situation would result in giving up Fields, who they could groom to take over for Delgado, and probably Danks and maybe another prospect. The problem with this is that where does one of our hottest hitters, OC, play?

KW could also try to re-sign crede to another 1 year deal or find a stop gap for a couple of season until our 2nd round pick is ready to take over 3B.

I wouldn't give up Fields for Bay, you could get him for less then that I think. At this point if Konerko goes on the DL and Thome continues to struggle they have to be benched.

All in all, we are gonna have to give up some young pitcing to get an impact bat. I'd rather give up Danks then Floyd but we better get a damn good player back if we are gonna give up young pitching.

getonbckthr
06-16-2008, 02:27 PM
It would be hard to find 1 player that I would give up Fields and Danks for.

spiffie
06-16-2008, 02:35 PM
It would be hard to find 1 player that I would give up Fields and Danks for.
I have no trouble with that. Finding 1 player who would realistically be available for Fields and Danks is quite the different story. If the Marlins want to send Hanley Ramirez this way, I'll gift wrap those two and FedEx them to Miami. But I don't see that happening.

jabrch
06-16-2008, 02:36 PM
It would be hard to find 1 player that I would give up Fields and Danks for.

It would be hard to find 1 player WHO IS AVAILABLE who I'd give up Fields and Danks for.

getonbckthr
06-16-2008, 02:41 PM
It would be hard to find 1 player WHO IS AVAILABLE who I'd give up Fields and Danks for.
Well yeah. Obviously if Philly said here's Utley boom done deal.

jabrch
06-16-2008, 02:50 PM
Well yeah. Obviously if Philly said here's Utley boom done deal.


Exactly...If SFO offers Lincecum - same thing. There are a few - but not many.

Danks has a lot of value right now. That doesn't mean I am not willing to sell HIGH - but in order to sell, it would have to be HIGH.

TDog
06-16-2008, 04:16 PM
I don't want to re-sign crede. To me he's not going to be worth 40-50 mil. I'm sorry, he's just not. However, if you want a leadoff guy some have mentioned Jose Reyes.

That situation would result in giving up Fields, who they could groom to take over for Delgado, and probably Danks and maybe another prospect. The problem with this is that where does one of our hottest hitters, OC, play?

KW could also try to re-sign crede to another 1 year deal or find a stop gap for a couple of season until our 2nd round pick is ready to take over 3B.

I wouldn't give up Fields for Bay, you could get him for less then that I think. At this point if Konerko goes on the DL and Thome continues to struggle they have to be benched.

All in all, we are gonna have to give up some young pitcing to get an impact bat. I'd rather give up Danks then Floyd but we better get a damn good player back if we are gonna give up young pitching.

I believe White Sox fans anticipate far more from Josh Fields than he ever will provide the team. I believe it is more likely that today's dream of a solid hitter who plays adequate defense is destined to be a future problem, both in the lineup and on defense. Fields' best value to the White Sox might be as trade bait to a team that overvalues his potential.

Frater Perdurabo
06-16-2008, 04:54 PM
It would be hard to find 1 player that I would give up Fields and Danks for.

Ichiro, but then again the Mariners won't trade him.

Foulke You
06-16-2008, 05:37 PM
I'm not familiar with the Mets trade situation. Is Reyes expected to be on the market? What is his contract situation? Reyes is intriguing because according to Steve Phillips of ESPN when he was GM of the Mets, Kenny Williams went hard after Reyes when he was just a prospect and Phillips wouldn't move him. This officially makes Reyes a guy who could still be on Kenny's famous "bulletin board". I agree that it would probably take a John Danks or a Gavin Floyd to land Reyes and that might be too high a price to pay unless the Sox feel confident that Broadway is ready for showtime.

The Immigrant
06-16-2008, 06:10 PM
I'm not familiar with the Mets trade situation. Is Reyes expected to be on the market? What is his contract situation?

Jose Reyes ss
4 years/$23.25M (2007-10), plus $11M 2011 club option

signed extension 8/06
$1.5M signing bonus
07:$2.5M, 08:$4M, 09:$5.75M, 10:$9M,
11:$11M club option ($0.5M buyout)I can't imagine a player like Reyes would ever be traded by a high-payroll club like the Mets. They can just pay the going rate for pitching on the free agent market.

The Immigrant
06-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Ichiro, but then again the Mariners won't trade him.

I think we already have enough thirty-something guys with declining numbers.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2008, 06:53 PM
I'm not familiar with the Mets trade situation. Is Reyes expected to be on the market? What is his contract situation? Reyes is intriguing because according to Steve Phillips of ESPN when he was GM of the Mets, Kenny Williams went hard after Reyes when he was just a prospect and Phillips wouldn't move him. This officially makes Reyes a guy who could still be on Kenny's famous "bulletin board". I agree that it would probably take a John Danks or a Gavin Floyd to land Reyes and that might be too high a price to pay unless the Sox feel confident that Broadway is ready for showtime.
I'm not sure where people got the idea Reyes was on the market...he's not leaving New York anytime soon.

palehozenychicty
06-17-2008, 09:17 AM
Reyes is going to be a Met for a long while.

russ99
06-17-2008, 04:04 PM
I'm not sure where people got the idea Reyes was on the market...he's not leaving New York anytime soon.

I've heard rumors to that point, mostly due to his payroll number kicking up the next few seasons, along with his subpar numbers so far this year (well at least compared what he's been doing the last few years). I wonder if Randolph getting fired would change anything...

The Mets are also always looking for pitching and have other prospects who could step in at SS, like Anderson Hernandez. Alou and Delgado aren't too long for the league either, so an outfielder with promise might also be part of a deal to pry Reyes away, especially considering what they gave up to acquire Santana.

As I said before, it's probably not likely the Sox move on him, and I was just throwing his name into the ring. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Mets trade him well before he hits those $9M/$11M years. That may not be this year, but it's more likely as he gets closer to that amount.

ChiSoxFan7
06-17-2008, 06:28 PM
we need speed. i don't care how it get's here but speed is one hundred percent needed. look at what taveras (sp?) and pods did against us in this last series.

Whether it be owens, or someone else....we must have it b/c tho crede's stop slide agasint colorado ( i think) was a really good effort, i don't think we he's our need for speed.

Rockin Robin
06-17-2008, 06:40 PM
Why not trade Crede and Uribe straight up for Reyes and David Wright?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

ShoelessJoeS
06-17-2008, 06:47 PM
Why not trade Crede and Uribe straight up for Reyes and David Wright?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.Lol...It might take Kenny a couple roundhouse kicks to pull that one off.

Lillian
06-22-2008, 09:14 AM
To leave the subject of leadoff hitters, and return to the general thread topic of trade deadline moves, what can the Sox do to add some depth to the starting rotation?

I understand that that has been one of this years strengths, along with the Bullpen. However, Jose has not ever really provided one entire season of solid pitching, and he has already had his perennial one good half.
Danks has never pitched a whole season of 200 innings, and Ozzie is apparently already worried about his stamina. Why else would he have pulled him in Friday's game vs the Cubs? He had only thrown 87 pitches, and was cruising.
It is rare for an entire starting staff to not suffer any injuries in the course of a season.
The Sox do not appear to have anyone at the Minors who is ready to step in, if needed. Broadway would likely get the nod, but how comfortable are you with him as the 5th starter?

The Sox probably don't have the trading chips to acquire anyone in a trade.
Who could they get, and how?
My thought would be to take a good hard look at Freddy Garcia. He is expected to be game ready by early August. His relationship with Ozzie could help in any efforts to reacquire him. He wouldn't cost anything but money.
There is also something to be said for keeping him away from one of our other division rivals, in case they should decide to go after him.
What do you think, and who else could they get, and how?

I also wouldn't mind seeing Masset being given a chance to return to a starting role. Maybe they should be trying to stretch him out a little, just in case.

Loaiza is probably better suited as a long man, out of the Pen, at this point in his career. Perhaps he could take over that role from Masset.

Pitching is still the most important asset, and while this team is very good in that department, there is little Major League ready depth in the organization.

Tragg
06-22-2008, 05:54 PM
I think we already have enough thirty-something guys with declining numbers.
Isn't that the truth.
But this is the sanctuary for 30+ .

the1tab
06-22-2008, 06:05 PM
Why not trade Crede and Uribe straight up for Reyes and David Wright?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

I'm pretty sure we'd need to hire Chuck Norris as our Asst GM to pull this one off.

If we throw in Uribe to fill their need at SS....