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TimChamp
05-05-2002, 11:45 PM
I don't know if anybody has posted this before, but I read this on "Wild Pitches" and thought it was funny...

And speaking of brilliant Marlins marketing strategies, they pirated one of the most innovative promotional ideas of the '90s -- White Sox marketing genius Rob Gallas' brilliant creation, Dog Day -- and held a Dog Day of their own last Sunday.

Here's the link to the whole article...
Wild Pitches: Rob Gallas, The Marketing Genius??? (http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stark_jayson/1377952.html)

Tell me what you guys think of this...I think it's hillarious...just goes to show how those ESPN columnists know jack crap about the White Sox... :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Cheryl
05-06-2002, 07:28 AM
Yeah, and they got 14,000 people in the ballpark for it too.

It's pure marketing genius .

moochpuppy
05-06-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Yeah, and they got 14,000 people in the ballpark for it too.



Was that counting the K9's? :D:

MattSharp
05-06-2002, 11:26 AM
Yea I read that. Honestly some of Gallas' ideas aren't that bad. The Kid's day is great and this sleepover thing sounds real cool. It's not his fault they don't people in the park. He can't make ticket prices lower, thats only Jerry.....

TimChamp
05-06-2002, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by MattSharp
Yea I read that. Honestly some of Gallas' ideas aren't that bad. The Kid's day is great and this sleepover thing sounds real cool. It's not his fault they don't people in the park. He can't make ticket prices lower, thats only Jerry.....

What do you think of the "idea" of Kenny Williams to have Jack McDowell's band performing the national anthem...

Maybe we should have a pre-game and post-game concert of former White Sox players and their band... :D:

Nellsin
05-06-2002, 11:53 AM
Another dissenting vote. My sister's family used my Dog Day tickets and had a blast. I don't have a dog but have shown up by accident at previous Dog Days and it's clear that people really enjoy them. Same with Elvis night, I'm not a huge fan of Elvis but I know people who make that one of few Sox games they go to every year. Kids days -- the fun & games outside the outfield gate, kids running the bases after the game, etc. is a great idea, IMO, and encourages formation of the next generation of fans. There are 81 home games a season so if you want to avoid all gimmicks it's easy enough to do that.

Meanwhile, Gallas deserves some credit for promotions (as opposed to the ad campaigns of the past few years, which have been dreadful.) The Sox were the first team to have a day, caps etc. honoring the Negro Leagues. They were very early, if not the first, with Turn Back the Clock. Many of these ideas are widely imitated now -- which doesn't mean you personally have to like them, but marketing is about popularity, right? I recall reading that that Veeck was criticised decades ago when he came up with the exploding scoreboard on the grounds that it was tacky and circuslike. We seem to have gotten over that.

Luckily for the purists, the team is also playing very well. Meanwhile, my teenage niece and nephew are totally looking forward to 70s night -- and I am too.

Cheryl
05-06-2002, 12:00 PM
Some of his stuff is great. Especially the Kids Days promotions. And the sleepover idea, and Picnic in the Park and the late, lamented Ladies Day. Not that he thought of LD, but they did them when they could get a sponsor for them.

It's my opinion, though, they could give Elvis a rest. And Dog Day. And Turn Back (or Forward) the Clock.

MattSharp
05-06-2002, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by TimChamp


What do you think of the "idea" of Kenny Williams to have Jack McDowell's band performing the national anthem...

Maybe we should have a pre-game and post-game concert of former White Sox players and their band... :D:

Hmm, well KW is a moron we all know that. I honestly wouldn't care if they had a pre-game and post-game concert. If didn't want to see/hear it, it would be easy to avoid.....

FarWestChicago
05-06-2002, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp


Hmm, well KW is a moron we all know that.You may want to cut KW a little slack. For all the crap we've given him, he's managed to get a pretty decent team out on the field. I'm not saying he's Billy Beane, but he deserves to be judged by his results.

TimChamp
05-06-2002, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Some of his stuff is great. Especially the Kids Days promotions. And the sleepover idea, and Picnic in the Park and the late, lamented Ladies Day. Not that he thought of LD, but they did them when they could get a sponsor for them.

It's my opinion, though, they could give Elvis a rest. And Dog Day. And Turn Back (or Forward) the Clock.

Does anyone remember if it was Comiskey Park that had the "Kissing Night"? They would have couples in the audience kiss and see who could do it the longest...Boy, I wonder who's idea that was...I would sure like to know... :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-06-2002, 01:07 PM
Successfully marketing a baseball team is NOT predicated on how many creative game day promotions you can invent. By definition, these are one-shot deals and are an inefficient method to sustained ticket sales. It's all flash, no substance.

Marketing a sports team successfully involves selling season tickets and other multi-game packages. While the Sox have made modest improvements in this area, they season ticket base is still woefully too small. THAT'S GALLAS'S FAULT.

The fact the Sox are doing so well on day of game walk up sales underscores what a piss-poor job the team does locking up fans for extra games. While I'm happy Sox Fans are making the last-minute choice to attend games, it's the responsiblity of Sox Marketing to get their commitment as early and as frequently as possible--namely, season ticket and multi-game sales. Here Gallas is an abject failure. The high walk up sales only prove the point.

As I've said before, we need 25,000+ warm bodies filling the lower bowl EVERY GAME, and 30,000+ on weekends and promotion nights. You will never accomplish this inventing next year's "sleepover", "flying Elvis", "dog day", "turn back the clock" promotion. BUILD SEASON TICKET SALES, not silly promotions!

:gallas
"I'm a newspaper guy by trade, and it shows."

Nellsin
05-06-2002, 01:35 PM
Of course I agree that season ticket sales need to be boosted, but I don't beleve that promotion attendees and season ticket holders occupy two completely different worlds. I have participated for years in various groups that share season tickets. In the annual ticket drafts, these long-time and knowledgeable fans do pay attention to the promotions (among other things of course). They want the dates for the ones they, their families, their friends, colleagues and clients like. I'm not persuaded that each and every one of these fans would still participate to the same extent in a season ticket package if there were no promotions -- especially in years following disappointing seasons. I think promotions help, they just can't carry all the water.

MattSharp
05-06-2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
You may want to cut KW a little slack. For all the crap we've given him, he's managed to get a pretty decent team out on the field. I'm not saying he's Billy Beane, but he deserves to be judged by his results.

Other than Lofton he hasn't acquired anyone great. He failed to tradee The Choice. He also traded away Sean Lowe, the Soxs most reliable reliever last year. Then he traded away Kip Wells and Josh Fogg, two of the better starters in the NL right now.....

Pete_SSAC
05-06-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp


Other than Lofton he hasn't acquired anyone great. He failed to tradee The Choice. He also traded away Sean Lowe, the Soxs most reliable reliever last year. Then he traded away Kip Wells and Josh Fogg, two of the better starters in the NL right now.....

Have you SEEN Lowe this season? His ERA is around 7, and got lit up yesterday in his first start of the season. Kip's butt plug is due to go anytime. Fogg is really the only one I regert giving up.

- Pete

FarWestChicago
05-06-2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp


Other than Lofton he hasn't acquired anyone great. He failed to tradee The Choice. He also traded away Sean Lowe, the Soxs most reliable reliever last year. Then he traded away Kip Wells and Josh Fogg, two of the better starters in the NL right now.....
You completely missed what I said. Judge him by the results, not what you think he should have done. I don't see anybody paying you to be a GM, so your opinion may not be as important as how the team is actually performing. Think about it.

WinningUgly!
05-06-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp


He also traded away Sean Lowe, the Soxs most reliable reliever last year.
:keith
"Hello?"

Cheryl
05-06-2002, 02:51 PM
Wanna know something else? Get the Pizza Race off the screen and onto to warning track. Dress 3 people up like pizzas and have them run foul pole to foul pole. Yeah, it's a total ripoff of the sausage race in Milwaukee, but I love the sausage race. The video is just too lame.

TimChamp
05-06-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Wanna know something else? Get the Pizza Race off the screen and onto to warning track. Dress 3 people up like pizzas and have them run foul pole to foul pole. Yeah, it's a total ripoff of the sausage race in Milwaukee, but I love the sausage race. The video is just too lame.

That's a great idea...I would love to see people running around in a gigantic pizza suit...maybe you should be the Sox Marketing Director...or something like that... :D:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-06-2002, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Nellsin
Of course I agree that season ticket sales need to be boosted, but I don't beleve that promotion attendees and season ticket holders occupy two completely different worlds. I have participated for years in various groups that share season tickets. In the annual ticket drafts, these long-time and knowledgeable fans do pay attention to the promotions (among other things of course). They want the dates for the ones they, their families, their friends, colleagues and clients like. I'm not persuaded that each and every one of these fans would still participate to the same extent in a season ticket package if there were no promotions -- especially in years following disappointing seasons. I think promotions help, they just can't carry all the water.


I'm not persuaded that each and every one of these fans would still participate to the same extent in a season ticket package if there were no promotions? Where on Earth did you come up with that? I never said, nor even suggested, anything of the sort.

I said the Sox need 25,000+ warm bodies filling the lower bowl EACH GAME. I merely pointed out it's impossible to accomplish this when you're focused on goofy single-game promotions.

The season ticket base must be 20,000 or so before such a goal can be achieved, regardless how many times you or your group attend special promotion nights. Once you've got that many people already locked in, the the walk ups put you over the top.

Ticket scarcity solves other problems, too. For example, it was here just last week we discussed the problem of lost revenue from freeloaders buying cheap upper deck seats, then giving themselves the "Comiskey Upgrade" amongst the wide open spaces of the lower bowl. Sell season tickets and that problem largely disappears. Then you're making more money per ticket sold, too. What a novel concept!

Inventing clever new promotions without first solving lousy season ticket sales is "cart before the horse" thinking. That's Gallas's fault, and the major downfall of Sox marketing efforts.

TimChamp
05-06-2002, 03:10 PM
I think the best way to solve this problem and to get the fans to come to Comiskey Park is to move Comiskey to where Wrigle Field is now and put Wrigley Field on Mars or something...That would definitely make our average attendance to almost the full capacity since sCrUB fans would come to Comiskey thinking it's still Wrigley... :D:

Cheryl
05-06-2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by TimChamp
I think the best way to solve this problem and to get the fans to come to Comiskey Park is to move Comiskey to where Wrigle Field is now and put Wrigley Field on Mars or something...That would definitely make our average attendance to almost the full capacity since sCrUB fans would come to Comiskey thinking it's still Wrigley... :D:

Couldn't we just change the directional signs? For instance, on the Addison exit off the Kennedy, put a sign that says "Comiskey Park 5 miles east." And on the Ryan at 35th, put a sign pointing toward 'Wrigley.'

Most of them would never notice they until they went looking for High Tops after the game.

TimChamp
05-06-2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


Couldn't we just change the directional signs? For instance, on the Addison exit off the Kennedy, put a sign that says "Comiskey Park 5 miles east." And on the Ryan at 35th, put a sign pointing toward 'Wrigley.'

Most of them would never notice they until they went looking for High Tops after the game.

LOL!!! HAHAHA...I like that idea too... :gulp:

MattSharp
05-06-2002, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago

You completely missed what I said. Judge him by the results, not what you think he should have done. I don't see anybody paying you to be a GM, so your opinion may not be as important as how the team is actually performing. Think about it.

I am not disputing the fact that the Sox are winning games. And Todd Ritchie has been great, but I think people were angry with this move. I still think its gonna come back to hurt us eventually. Hopefully I am wrong. I agree that KW has gotten two two players, but lets give him time before hes a HOF general manager.....

FarWestChicago
05-06-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp


I am not disputing the fact that the Sox are winning games. And Todd Ritchie has been great, but I think people were angry with this move. I still think its gonna come back to hurt us eventually. Hopefully I am wrong. I agree that KW has gotten two two players, but lets give him time before hes a HOF general manager..... I never said he was a HOF general manager. In fact, I said "I'm not saying he's Billy Beane". I just said judge him by the results. As you can see below, the hyperbole began with someone else:Originally posted by MattSharp


Hmm, well KW is a moron we all know that. I honestly wouldn't care if they had a pre-game and post-game concert. If didn't want to see/hear it, it would be easy to avoid.....

Nellsin
05-06-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge



Where on Earth did you come up with that? I never said, nor even suggested, anything of the sort.

I merely pointed out it's impossible to accomplish this when you're focused on goofy single-game promotions.

Inventing clever new promotions without first solving lousy season ticket sales is "cart before the horse" thinking.

Well, your posts seemed to me to be setting up an either/or situation, and a cause and effect: it's impossible to both sell more ticket packages AND think up new promotions; we're not selling more tickets BECAUSE we focus on promotions. I don't agree, because I think that a good marketing department could do both. I continue to think that some promotions are popular enough to actually help promote package ticket sales, though not by nearly enough to bring in 25,000 a game, a goal I never disagreed with. And I think that there are enough hours in the day so that a competent staff with good leadership could work on more than one strategy at a time. I never said Gallas was the guy who could do THAT. I just think some of his promotions work, and work well.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-06-2002, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Nellsin
Well, your posts seemed to me to be setting up an either/or situation, and a cause and effect: it's impossible to both sell more ticket packages AND think up new promotions; we're not selling more tickets BECAUSE we focus on promotions. I don't agree, because I think that a good marketing department could do both. I continue to think that some promotions are popular enough to actually help promote package ticket sales, though not by nearly enough to bring in 25,000 a game, a goal I never disagreed with. And I think that there are enough hours in the day so that a competent staff with good leadership could work on more than one strategy at a time. I never said Gallas was the guy who could do THAT. I just think some of his promotions work, and work well. .

Yes, I would argue there IS the effect of low season attendance caused by low season ticket sales. I wouldn't argue that promotions might induce more season ticket sales, nor did I ever say it wouldn't. But clearly, single-game promotions are not going to solve low attendance at Comiskey, no matter how many extra season tickets the Sox might sell.

In fact, if goofy single-game promotions DID positively effect season ticket sales, the White Sox ought to lead the league in season ticket sales because nobody has more goofy promotions than the Sox.

To the contrary, the Sox are setting records for single-game walk up sales. That is Sox marketing's fault.

Obviously the Sox need both season ticket and promotional inducements in their marketing plan. However, the fact the team's season ticket sales lag far behind their game day walk ups utterly screams for marketing's attention. That has been my point from the start.

I'm not aware of anything the Sox are doing to jack season ticket sales that they haven't been doing for the past several years, the same lousy effort that landed them in this predicament in the first place. That's what makes me most angry with Gallas. There is a problem staring him square in the face and he does NOTHING!

Nellsin
05-07-2002, 06:18 AM
"In fact, if goofy single-game promotions DID positively effect season ticket sales, the White Sox ought to lead the league in season ticket sales because nobody has more goofy promotions than the Sox. "


That would be a valid statement logically only if promotions were the SOLE thing that affected sales, which of course they are not. I never said or even suggested that they were. Either you are kidding (I saw no teal) or this is another instance of people going into attack mode when a poster tries to be fair-minded about a person in the Sox organization whom others despise. I've seen it frequently on these boards but never from a moderator before.

Sorry my views on promotions disagree with your views. I tried to state mine politely and respectfully, and certainly never said that promotions, single game or otherwise, would solve all the Sox attendance problems. To the contrary, I said they wouldn't.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-07-2002, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Nellsin
"In fact, if goofy single-game promotions DID positively effect season ticket sales, the White Sox ought to lead the league in season ticket sales because nobody has more goofy promotions than the Sox. "


That would be a valid statement logically only if promotions were the SOLE thing that affected sales, which of course they are not. I never said or even suggested that they were. Either you are kidding (I saw no teal) or this is another instance of people going into attack mode when a poster tries to be fair-minded about a person in the Sox organization whom others despise. I've seen it frequently on these boards but never from a moderator before.

Sorry my views on promotions disagree with your views. I tried to state mine politely and respectfully, and certainly never said that promotions, single game or otherwise, would solve all the Sox attendance problems. To the contrary, I said they wouldn't.

We're disagreeing over nothing. I noted that single-game promotions don't fix the real problem, lousy season ticket sales. You read that to mean promotions and season ticket sales were mutually exclusive, so I corrected you, noting what I actually wrote. Now YOU'RE offended?

Grow up.

Gallas deserves props for his promotions, and I've praised him here many times long before this thread ever started. I disagree that that accomplishment alone gets him off the hook for lousy season ticket sales. As near as I can tell, we have no disagreement here, either. Is this correct?

Since 99 percent of us agree Sox attendance is too low, how do you suggest the Sox solve it? Does Sox marketing have a role to play?

Nellsin
05-07-2002, 09:04 AM
I never posted to this thread to talk about ticket sales generally. I expressly posted about promotions, which was what the thread was about at that time. People were attacking the promotions as stupid and I pointed out that some people like them. You are the one who then said that promotions pull focus from where it ought to be, season ticket sales. I said that I think they actually helped, though not much. You retreated to saying that you now have no opinion about whether promotions do or don't help season ticket sales, and threw in sarcastic misstatements of my view. I objected to the cheap shot, so now you challenge me to solve all the Sox marketing problems, something I never set out to do.

I have not seen your pro-promotion posts but will take your word for them and am glad to hear it. I have never said, on this or any other thread, that any promotions "get Gallas off the hook" for otherwise bad perfomance. You are repeatedly setting up straw men to knock down. That is not a "grown up" or persuasive way of arguing.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-07-2002, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Nellsin
I never posted to this thread to talk about ticket sales generally. I expressly posted about promotions, which was what the thread was about at that time. People were attacking the promotions as stupid and I pointed out that some people like them. You are the one who then said that promotions pull focus from where it ought to be, season ticket sales. I said that I think they actually helped, though not much. You retreated to saying that you now have no opinion about whether promotions do or don't help season ticket sales, and threw in sarcastic misstatements of my view. I objected to the cheap shot, so now you challenge me to solve all the Sox marketing problems, something I never set out to do.

I have not seen your pro-promotion posts but will take your word for them and am glad to hear it. I have never said, on this or any other thread, that any promotions "get Gallas off the hook" for otherwise bad perfomance. You are repeatedly setting up straw men to knock down. That is not a "grown up" or persuasive way of arguing.

Pot to the kettle, "You're black."

Let me ask you AGAIN, Nellsin. Since 99 percent of us agree Sox attendance is too low, how do you suggest the Sox solve it? Does Sox marketing have a role to play?

Stop trying to build a dispute between us where there is none.

Sheesh...

TimChamp
05-07-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Pot to the kettle, "You're black."

Let me ask you AGAIN, Nellsin. Since 99 percent of us agree Sox attendance is too low, how do you suggest the Sox solve it? Does Sox marketing have a role to play?

Stop trying to build a dispute between us where there is none.

Sheesh...

Somehow I feel responsible for starting this mess... :(:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-07-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by TimChamp
Somehow I feel responsible for starting this mess... :(:

How do you figure? I'm not aware of any dispute at all, except for misrepresenting who said what.

Believe me, you're not responsible for that.

TimChamp
05-07-2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


How do you figure? I'm not aware of any dispute at all, except for misrepresenting who said what.

Believe me, you're not responsible for that.

No, I started the thread...but if you say I'm not responsible, then it's all better... :)