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nodiggity59
06-11-2008, 06:26 PM
Hi all. Just looking to have a little fun thinking about the Sox in 09. No anger/not appreciating 08, just excited about the Sox young players actually.

I'd like to see the Sox turn the page on Dye and Thome after the year. Hopefully KW can find a taker for Dye's last year. If that happens, here's what we'd be looking at (or some combo):

C-AJ
1B-Konerko
2B-Richar
SS-Ramirez
3B-Fields
LF-Quentin
CF-Anderson
RF-Swisher
DH-

SP-MB, Javy, Contreras, Danks, Floyd
BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan, Wasserman

The thing that strikes me is that there seems to be little payroll here. Just listing these guys, I roughly estimate $35mil for the lineup, $40mil for the rotation, and $15mil for the bullpen. That's "only" $90million. Food for thought.

Also, still just thinking out loud, anyone think that Jenks, Fields, and a prospect would make a hell of a good offer for a young stud hitter close to FA? Matt Holliday anyone? Or what about those Howard rumors? Maybe take Bobby out of the deal and get Alex Rios? I'm thinking along those lines for a potential trade.

Finally, I know there's 0 chance we sign Teixiera, but who else is out there in FA?

Just interested in talking, no need to flame out people!

JermaineDye05
06-11-2008, 06:31 PM
I love the fact that this team is getting younger, I mentioned it earlier in the season that it looked like it could be a strong possibility in 2009. Now with the emergence of Alexei the future looks much better.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=100997

turners56
06-11-2008, 06:45 PM
Does Dye have a buyout for next season? I think signing Crede and buying out Thome is the right thing to do here.

TomBradley72
06-11-2008, 07:18 PM
I'm not sold on Richar at 2nd base, .230 hitter last year in two months with the WSox...struggling so far this year w/Charlotte, doesn't generate alot of SBs...might be good, but I'm not ready to pencil him in at 2nd yet. Would definitely prefer we keep Crede/avoid renewing Thome to pay for it.

DSpivack
06-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Does Dye have a buyout for next season? I think signing Crede and buying out Thome is the right thing to do here.

Dye has a buyout for 2010, but not 2009. Thome has a $13 million option for next season, or a $3 million buyout.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

I'd like Crede back, but with Fields I think he's probably gone.

pearso66
06-11-2008, 08:48 PM
I'd keep Dye and DH him, he hits well, but he is so slow in the OF right now it's not funny. I wouldn't mind them resigning Crede and trying to move Konerko to put Fields at 1st, but I doubt that happens.

chisoxmike
06-11-2008, 09:23 PM
Can we worry about our 1st place 2008 team for now?

btrain929
06-11-2008, 09:26 PM
Hi all. Just looking to have a little fun thinking about the Sox in 09. No anger/not appreciating 08, just excited about the Sox young players actually.

I'd like to see the Sox turn the page on Dye and Thome after the year. Hopefully KW can find a taker for Dye's last year. If that happens, here's what we'd be looking at (or some combo):

C-AJ
1B-Konerko
2B-Richar
SS-Ramirez
3B-Fields
LF-Quentin
CF-Anderson
RF-Swisher
DH-

SP-MB, Javy, Contreras, Danks, Floyd
BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan, Wasserman

The thing that strikes me is that there seems to be little payroll here. Just listing these guys, I roughly estimate $35mil for the lineup, $40mil for the rotation, and $15mil for the bullpen. That's "only" $90million. Food for thought.

Also, still just thinking out loud, anyone think that Jenks, Fields, and a prospect would make a hell of a good offer for a young stud hitter close to FA? Matt Holliday anyone? Or what about those Howard rumors? Maybe take Bobby out of the deal and get Alex Rios? I'm thinking along those lines for a potential trade.

Finally, I know there's 0 chance we sign Teixiera, but who else is out there in FA?

Just interested in talking, no need to flame out people!

If Fields + prospect would get you Alex Rios, that deal would have been made yesterday and the Blue Jays GM would be fired immediately afterwards. That's not happening.

With Thome leaving (hopefully, unless coming back on an altered option of 7 mil or so ala Uribe), I'd love to obtain a power hitting lefty (Dunn, Howard, etc). Whether or not that'll happen and how we could make it happen is the ? mark.

Once our offseason was completed, I thought KW's strategy was to use the '07 offseason to build up our offense (which he did bulk up a bit), and he would use the '08 offseason to bolster our SP staff. Now looking at it, he might make another run for offensive improvement with the developments of Floyd, Danks, and the quick moving Poreda. The only change would be trading a Contreras with revived trade value that's in his contract year and filling the 5th spot with a decent FA.

I feel a bonified CF'er and a bonified leadoff hitter would be excellent, well-needed additions to our offense and to our team. Possible trade bait to make that happen? Fields (if Crede is signed long term), Konerko (with Fields playing 1b, and yes, it can happen), Contreras, Poreda (would any of us be surprised?), or some of our decent prospects (Getz, Shelby, Broadway).

We shall see.

But for now, we gotta get our act together vs the Tiggers...

btrain929
06-11-2008, 09:28 PM
Can we worry about our 1st place 2008 team for now?

:rolleyes:

Well you go do that, while we talk about possible 2009 rosters. The poster already said he's not pushing this season aside or wants people to freak out 'cuz he's looking down the road. He just wants to talk about our bright future with our young developing players.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Frater Perdurabo
06-11-2008, 09:32 PM
Quentin's arm belongs in RF, so Swisher should go to LF. Let Thome, Cabrera and Uribe go, trade Dye, and re-sign Crede. Have Fields DH. Finally, sign Bobby Abreu to bat second and play LF (one DH start and one game off/week), and use Swisher as a super-sub (five starts/week).

SS Ramirez
LF Abreu (Swisher)
RF Quentin (Swisher)
1B Paulie (Swisher)
C AJ
3B Crede
DH Fields (Swisher)
2B Richar
CF BA (Swisher)

DSpivack
06-11-2008, 09:37 PM
I'd keep Dye and DH him, he hits well, but he is so slow in the OF right now it's not funny. I wouldn't mind them resigning Crede and trying to move Konerko to put Fields at 1st, but I doubt that happens.

Or, keep Dye in RF and DH Fields.

btrain929
06-11-2008, 09:38 PM
Quentin's arm belongs in RF, so Swisher should go to LF. Let Thome, Cabrera and Uribe go, trade Dye, and re-sign Crede. Have Fields DH. Finally, sign Bobby Abreu to bat second and play LF (one DH start and one game off/week), and use Swisher as a super-sub (five starts/week).

SS Ramirez
LF Abreu (Swisher)
RF Quentin (Swisher)
1B Paulie (Swisher)
C AJ
3B Crede
DH Fields (Swisher)
2B Richar
CF BA (Swisher)

Is Abreu a free agent, or are you saying trade for him? If he's a free agent and he's not asking for ridiculous money, it wouldn't be too bad of a move, But I'd have Abreu in LF and Swisher in CF. I don't like the idea of giving up as much as we did thru trade for a super-sub. If not Abreu, cement Swisher in LF and acquire a true CF'er that can either leadoff or be a middle-of-the-order hitter. It would be interesting to see what we could get for Dye (he still is a good hitter and has a good arm, range ehhhhh).

DSpivack
06-11-2008, 09:44 PM
Is Abreu a free agent, or are you saying trade for him? If he's a free agent and he's not asking for ridiculous money, it wouldn't be too bad of a move, But I'd have Abreu in LF and Swisher in CF. I don't like the idea of giving up as much as we did thru trade for a super-sub. If not Abreu, cement Swisher in LF and acquire a true CF'er that can either leadoff or be a middle-of-the-order hitter. It would be interesting to see what we could get for Dye (he still is a good hitter and has a good arm, range ehhhhh).

Abreu was re-signed on a $16 mil option this year. Along with a lot of other Yankees, he'll be a free agent.

Frater Perdurabo
06-11-2008, 09:45 PM
Is Abreu a free agent, or are you saying trade for him? If he's a free agent and he's not asking for ridiculous money, it wouldn't be too bad of a move, But I'd have Abreu in LF and Swisher in CF. I don't like the idea of giving up as much as we did thru trade for a super-sub. If not Abreu, cement Swisher in LF and acquire a true CF'er that can either leadoff or be a middle-of-the-order hitter. It would be interesting to see what we could get for Dye (he still is a good hitter and has a good arm, range ehhhhh).

IIRC Abreu is a free agent. Give him $54M/3 yrs. Versatility is Swisher's biggest value. As a "super-sub," he'd still get 5 starts each week, primarily to rest Abreu (aging) twice weekly, but also to rest Quentin, Paulie and BA when they have problems matching up with opposing starters. This also gets BA's great defense and good speed into the order more often. I just don't see the Sox having enough to trade for a good CF who can lead off.

kittle42
06-11-2008, 09:52 PM
If Brian Anderson and Danny Richar are both starting next season, I'm canceling my season tickets now.

getonbckthr
06-11-2008, 09:56 PM
How much of a guarentee is Buerhle to be here next season?

DSpivack
06-11-2008, 09:57 PM
How much of a guarentee is Buerhle to be here next season?

I'd say 99%. He's signed through 2011 (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html) with both a limited no-trade clause and an escalator clause in his contract if he is dealt (and signed through 2012 if he is traded).

Frater Perdurabo
06-11-2008, 10:00 PM
If Brian Anderson and Danny Richar are both starting next season, I'm canceling my season tickets now.

:rolleyes:

BA has a higher batting average this year than Paulie, Thome and Swisher.

But let's not let facts get in the way of blind hatred.

EDIT: If those two are starting next season, will you also hold your breath and stomp your feet? :)

EDIT II: Can I borrow your time machine that will let you wait until 2009 to see who will be starting for the Sox, and then transport back through time to June 11, 2008 ("now") to cancel your season tickets? Or will you just pre-date your cancellation letter with June 11, 2008 as the date? Or will you write the letter "now," date it "now," seal it, stamp it, and put it under your pillow for safe keeping, and then wait to see who's playing for the Sox before deciding to drop it in the mail?
:)

chisoxfanatic
06-11-2008, 10:18 PM
If Brian Anderson and Danny Richar are both starting next season, I'm canceling my season tickets now.

What is wrong with BA, now? He's been hitting whenever given the opportunity (he's a glorified sub who doesn't even get regular playing time, mind you), and he's superb defensively. What else could you want? :rolleyes:

kittle42
06-11-2008, 10:33 PM
:rolleyes:

BA has a higher batting average this year than Paulie, Thome and Swisher.

But let's not let facts get in the way of blind hatred.

EDIT: If those two are starting next season, will you also hold your breath and stomp your feet?

EDIT II: Can I borrow your time machine that will let you wait until 2009 to see who will be starting for the Sox, and then transport back through time to June 11, 2008 ("now") to cancel your season tickets? Or will you just pre-date your cancellation letter with June 11, 2008 as the date? Or will you write the letter "now," date it "now," seal it, stamp it, and put it under your pillow for safe keeping, and then wait to see who's playing for the Sox before deciding to drop it in the mail?

Don't label me a "blind hater" just because I don't think a lineup with both of those two starting is a good thing. But I forgot how fun it is to just toss the labels around here when arguments won't work. I simply do not think either Anderson or Richar are very good. Anderson is a very capable fourth outfielder.

kittle42
06-11-2008, 10:34 PM
What is wrong with BA, now? He's been hitting whenever given the opportunity (he's a glorified sub who doesn't even get regular playing time, mind you), and he's superb defensively. What else could you want? :rolleyes:

I never said I didn't want him on the team. Hell, I didn't even actually say I didn't want him starting. I said if both he and Richar are starting, I'll be disappointed. I can take one of them. Anderson moreso than Richar.

But don't let that get in the way of your and Frater's labels and eye-rolling.

munchman33
06-11-2008, 10:36 PM
Brian Anderson as an emergency starter this year due to injury/bad performance of others is one thing. Going into a season with Brian Anderson as your starter is completely another.

Those of you hoping for the second have obviously lost it. The guy has been consistently below average as a hitter his entire major league career. He hasn't even had a league average flash in the major leagues. Why would you assume he's magically going to learn how to hit? What has he ever done in the majors, other than be a complete and utter dissappointment?

kittle42
06-11-2008, 11:59 PM
Brian Anderson as an emergency starter this year due to injury/bad performance of others is one thing. Going into a season with Brian Anderson as your starter is completely another.

Those of you hoping for the second have obviously lost it. The guy has been consistently below average as a hitter his entire major league career. He hasn't even had a league average flash in the major leagues. Why would you assume he's magically going to learn how to hit? What has he ever done in the majors, other than be a complete and utter dissappointment?

Obviously, you have not heard that no player can be judged on less than 1,000 MLB at-bats. In fact, every GM that gave up on a player before 1,000 At-bats was probably quite foolish.

LoveYourSuit
06-12-2008, 12:06 AM
Danny Richar is like the second coming of Joe Morgan on this board.

DSpivack
06-12-2008, 12:32 AM
Danny Richar is like the second coming of Joe Morgan on this board.

Just as long as Danny Richar doesn't think Danny Richar is the greatest second basemen of all time, and Danny Richar doesn't tell everyone how he thinks that Danny Richar is the best 2B ever, I won't be too upset. :tongue:

Chilli Palmer
06-12-2008, 12:38 AM
Can we worry about our 1st place 2008 team for now?

Thank you.

Chilli Palmer
06-12-2008, 12:42 AM
:rolleyes:

Well you go do that, while we talk about possible 2009 rosters. The poster already said he's not pushing this season aside or wants people to freak out 'cuz he's looking down the road. He just wants to talk about our bright future with our young developing players.

There's nothing wrong with that.

No of course not, but we are in the start of the pennant race and I like to think of some additions down the road THIS season that will help the club.

AFTER the season is over then you decide which direction you take the team. Yes it is always good to think ahead in baseball, but when you have a solid chance at October glory the last thing you are thinking about is the roster for next year, maybe the next game but I don't think next year is going through either KW or Ozzie's mind right now. It sure the hell is not going through mine.

kittle42
06-12-2008, 12:56 AM
Danny Richar is like the second coming of Joe Morgan on this board.

I like how he takes a pitch. Numbers don't tell you that.

Nellie_Fox
06-12-2008, 01:11 AM
Dye has a buyout for 2010, but not 2009. Thome has a $13 million option for next season, or a $3 million buyout.Thome's $13 million becomes guaranteed if he has 1100 plate appearances for 07-08 combined. He had 536 last year, so he needs 564 this year. He's nearly halfway there already.

HomeFish
06-12-2008, 01:24 AM
:rolleyes:
BA has a higher batting average this year than Paulie, Thome and Swisher.


Hitting over .210 does not make you a good ballplayer. Sorry FOBA.

TomBradley72
06-12-2008, 01:38 AM
No of course not, but we are in the start of the pennant race and I like to think of some additions down the road THIS season that will help the club.

AFTER the season is over then you decide which direction you take the team. Yes it is always good to think ahead in baseball, but when you have a solid chance at October glory the last thing you are thinking about is the roster for next year, maybe the next game but I don't think next year is going through either KW or Ozzie's mind right now. It sure the hell is not going through mine.

If you're ONLY interested in this year...why would you read this thread? There's about another 100 threads about this year for your enjoyment.

doublem23
06-12-2008, 01:50 AM
What is wrong with BA, now? He's been hitting whenever given the opportunity (he's a glorified sub who doesn't even get regular playing time, mind you), and he's superb defensively. What else could you want? :rolleyes:

He's still only hitting .250/.288/.382

Yuck.

ms620
06-12-2008, 06:47 AM
Thank you.

I really do not understand what the problem is with talking about the 2009 sox. First of all, if it really bothers you, why even read the thread titled "White Sox 2009". Second, do you honestly believe that the Sox organization is just worrying about the first place 2008 sox? It is fun to think ahead. If you dont want to than don't, but i really fail to see the point of making posts like "can we concentrate on '08" and then actually wasting your time thanking the original poster.

Frater Perdurabo
06-12-2008, 07:58 AM
It's your prerogative to judge players on whatever basis you want.

If you want to judge a player based on less than the equivalent of a full MLB season - BA has 495 career ABs - and ignore the obvious upward trend in his hitting and an improvement in his attitude, go right ahead.

BA has all the baseball skills to play in the majors at a high level except for one skill - judging the strike zone while facing MLB pitchers. That is something that some players learn immediately. Others take a season or sometimes two.

Given that BA possesses decent speed on the basepaths, a plus arm for CF, fantastic defensive instincts and range, and extra-base power, I'm willing to wait a little longer for him to master the strike zone against MLB pitchers. His attitude already is better.

But if you want to cancel your season tickets based on his and Richar's potential inclusion in a hypothetical 2009 lineup, be my guest.

Frater Perdurabo
06-12-2008, 08:01 AM
He's still only hitting .250/.288/.382

Yuck.

.266/.301/.392

He had a good game last night.

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-12-2008, 08:43 AM
I'd like Crede back, but with Fields I think he's probably gone.

I wouldn't be so sure on that. I think JC could be the one big deal that KW pulls in the offseason. There are places Fields can play besides 3rd; if the Sox take Thome's buyout, I'd DH Konerko and have Fields play 1B.

Lillian
06-12-2008, 10:09 AM
.266/.301/.392

He had a good game last night.

I posted Brian's numbers vs Righties in another thread. He is doing really well against them:
He's hitting .292 with a .324 OBP and a .400 SLG.

jabrch
06-12-2008, 10:18 AM
I wouldn't be so sure on that. I think JC could be the one big deal that KW pulls in the offseason. There are places Fields can play besides 3rd; if the Sox take Thome's buyout, I'd DH Konerko and have Fields play 1B.


Paul is a decent 1B at this point in his career. Fields has never played the position (at least nearly never). I would rather see Fields DH.

But if that's the case, then I'd rather see Fields traded.

jabrch
06-12-2008, 10:23 AM
Thome's $13 million becomes guaranteed if he has 1100 plate appearances for 07-08 combined. He had 536 last year, so he needs 564 this year. He's nearly halfway there already.

And it doesn't look like we are slowing down his # of PAs - so I'm guessing he will be here in 2009.

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-12-2008, 10:24 AM
Paul is a decent 1B at this point in his career. Fields has never played the position (at least nearly never). I would rather see Fields DH.

But if that's the case, then I'd rather see Fields traded.

I would agree with that also; I thought Fields had more 1B experience. My bad if I misspoke.

munchman33
06-12-2008, 10:33 AM
And it doesn't look like we are slowing down his # of PAs - so I'm guessing he will be here in 2009.

My guess is that in late July if he's still hitting around .200, we'll probably just release him.

russ99
06-12-2008, 10:48 AM
I'll go with:

CF-Owens/CF leadoff acquisition
SS-Ramirez
LF-Swisher
RF-Quentin
DH-Dye
1B-Konerko
C-AJ
3B-Fields/Crede (I doubt Joe will be back, but who knows)
2B-Richar

SP-Javy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Broadway/Contreras/acquisition
BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan/Thornton, Russell/acquisition

cws05champ
06-12-2008, 10:55 AM
I think it's a good bet that Contreras is dealt in the offseason especially if he has a good year this year, and going into his final year. With Danks and Floyd developing into good middle of the rotation starters you can see what Broadway has or move Masset into the rotation or possibly see what Poreda (midway through 09) has to contribute at the #5 spot.

The sox have to buyout Thome's option and look to split DH with Dye/Konerko. I would love to keep Crede but it would depend if his demands are reasonable, and that is probably not going to be the case with Boras as his agent. So if Cabrera and Crede Leave, we would hopefull get four draft picks for two Type A players.

I don't think the Sox would go with Richar at 2nd base, I have a feeling that they would bring in a Mark Ellis type on a 2-3 yr deal.

A. Ramirez SS
M. Ellis 2B
Konerko 1B/DH
Quentin RF
Dye RF/DH
Pryzinski C
Fields 3B
Swisher LF
Anderson/Owens CF

Rotation:
Vazquez
Buehrle
Floyd
Danks
Broadway/Masset

BP: Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Logan, Masset, Russell

TomBradley72
06-12-2008, 11:02 AM
.266/.301/.392

He had a good game last night.

.294 over the last 30 days...ahead of at least half of our regular starters.

btrain929
06-12-2008, 11:05 AM
And it doesn't look like we are slowing down his # of PAs - so I'm guessing he will be here in 2009.

1 DL stint from here to the end of September will take care of that. That would be an utter waste of money.

TomBradley72
06-12-2008, 11:05 AM
I'll go with:

CF-Owens/CF leadoff acquisition
SS-Ramirez
LF-Swisher
RF-Quentin
DH-Dye
1B-Konerko
C-AJ
3B-Fields/Crede (I doubt Joe will be back, but who knows)
2B-Richar

SP-Javy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Broadway/Contreras/acquisition
BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan/Thornton, Russell/acquisition

Jerry Owens will be 28 years old by Opening Day 2009. He is a 5th OF at best at the major league level.

gr8mexico
06-12-2008, 11:44 AM
2B-Orlando Hudson (FA Signing)
SS-Ramirez
1B-Swisher (Konerko He Gone)
LF-Quentin
DH-Thome
RF-Dye
C-AJ
3B-Fields
CF-Anderson

SP-Javy, C.C Sabathia, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan/Thornton, Russell/acquisition
Paul Konerko(12MIL) and Jose Contreras (10MIL) Joe Crede (5.2MIL) Juan Uribe(5MIL) are gone. In are Orlando Hudson (Gold Glove) & C.C Sabathia (ACE)

spiffie
06-12-2008, 11:52 AM
Paul Konerko has 10/5 protection. He isn't going anywhere. And if Jose Contreras pitches the way he has so far (Tuesday notwithstanding) the rest of the year he isn't going anywhere. And Juan Uribe isn't going anywhere simply because I am pretty sure Juan sold his soul to the devil to make sure he never goes away :D:

doublem23
06-12-2008, 12:08 PM
No way are the Sox getting C.C. Sabathia, either, IMO. The Yankees are shedding a ton of payroll and I fully expect Hank Steinbrenner to open up his checkbook faster than a drunk in Vegas. He's not going to be worth the deal it's going to take to top what NY will offer.

spiffie
06-12-2008, 12:17 PM
No way are the Sox getting C.C. Sabathia, either, IMO. The Yankees are shedding a ton of payroll and I fully expect Hank Steinbrenner to open up his checkbook faster than a drunk in Vegas. He's not going to be worth the deal it's going to take to top what NY will offer.
This is also true. Its likely to be somewhere around Santana and Zito money. While I would love CC in a Sox uniform, the thought of a 7 year deal at 15-20 million a year for him just seems crazy.

I wonder though in terms of contracts if the Sox have been looking at the deals given to guys like Longoria and given any thought about extending an offer like that to Quentin.

btrain929
06-12-2008, 12:39 PM
This is also true. Its likely to be somewhere around Santana and Zito money. While I would love CC in a Sox uniform, the thought of a 7 year deal at 15-20 million a year for him just seems crazy.

I wonder though in terms of contracts if the Sox have been looking at the deals given to guys like Longoria and given any thought about extending an offer like that to Quentin.

Plus, the Sox can't have 3 lefties in the rotation, so CC is the odd man out.

btrain929
06-12-2008, 12:40 PM
This is also true. Its likely to be somewhere around Santana and Zito money. While I would love CC in a Sox uniform, the thought of a 7 year deal at 15-20 million a year for him just seems crazy.

I wonder though in terms of contracts if the Sox have been looking at the deals given to guys like Longoria and given any thought about extending an offer like that to Quentin.

Agreed on Quentin. What's his status as far as when he hits arbitration? If we can buy those out and have 1-2 options on his free agency years, it'd be great.

gr8mexico
06-12-2008, 01:16 PM
Paul Konerko has 10/5 protection. He isn't going anywhere. And if Jose Contreras pitches the way he has so far (Tuesday notwithstanding) the rest of the year he isn't going anywhere. And Juan Uribe isn't going anywhere simply because I am pretty sure Juan sold his soul to the devil to make sure he never goes away :D:
If Jose Contreras keeps pitching the way he has then the Sox can get something really good for him. Paul Konerko can always accept a trade to another team like the Dodgers, Giants or Angels. The Sox can still sign Orlando Hudson to be there leadoff hitter. The Sox will be eliminating Orlando Cabreras, Juan Uribe and Joe Crede's contracts next year for a savings of around 18mil. But if the Sox can sign Crede and trade Konerko the infield would be one of the best with Crede, Ramirez and Hudson in the IF.

Craig Grebeck
06-12-2008, 01:37 PM
If Jose Contreras keeps pitching the way he has then the Sox can get something really good for him. Paul Konerko can always accept a trade to another team like the Dodgers, Giants or Angels. The Sox can still sign Orlando Hudson to be there leadoff hitter. The Sox will be eliminating Orlando Cabreras, Juan Uribe and Joe Crede's contracts next year for a savings of around 18mil. But if the Sox can sign Crede and trade Konerko the infield would be one of the best with Crede, Ramirez and Hudson in the IF.
Do you think before you post? What use would any of those teams have for Paul Konerko?

spiffie
06-12-2008, 02:10 PM
If Jose Contreras keeps pitching the way he has then the Sox can get something really good for him. Paul Konerko can always accept a trade to another team like the Dodgers, Giants or Angels. The Sox can still sign Orlando Hudson to be there leadoff hitter. The Sox will be eliminating Orlando Cabreras, Juan Uribe and Joe Crede's contracts next year for a savings of around 18mil. But if the Sox can sign Crede and trade Konerko the infield would be one of the best with Crede, Ramirez and Hudson in the IF.
If Jose Contreras keeps pitching the way he is I would rather he keeps doing it for the White Sox. Good starting pitching is not an easy commodity to replace.

gr8mexico
06-12-2008, 02:12 PM
Do you think before you post? What use would any of those teams have for Paul Konerko?
Are you for real? Why dont you do some research before you post. The starting 1B for the Giants is Rich Aurilia, The Starting 1B for the Angels is Casey Kotchman. Are you telling me that Konerko wouldnt be a better replacement?

gr8mexico
06-12-2008, 02:14 PM
If Jose Contreras keeps pitching the way he is I would rather he keeps doing it for the White Sox. Good starting pitching is not an easy commodity to replace.
The only reason they would trade Jose is if the Sox could sign C.C Sabathia

UofCSoxFan
06-12-2008, 02:18 PM
2B-Orlando Hudson (FA Signing)
SS-Ramirez
1B-Swisher (Konerko He Gone)
LF-Quentin
DH-Thome
RF-Dye
C-AJ
3B-Fields
CF-Anderson

SP-Javy, C.C Sabathia, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan/Thornton, Russell/acquisition
Paul Konerko(12MIL) and Jose Contreras (10MIL) Joe Crede (5.2MIL) Juan Uribe(5MIL) are gone. In are Orlando Hudson (Gold Glove) & C.C Sabathia (ACE)

Konerko will be here, Thome will not. I'd love Orlando Hudson....I think he offers a ton and Danny Richar scares me at second, especially with Alexei moving to SS (where I've only heard is his best position but haven't seen him play there more than maybe an inning or two).

I honestly don't see us spending the money it will take to bring in Sabathia. Contreras will be back or we'd sign a 2nd tier FA pitcher. Lance Broadway may be a possibility as well.

I could live with Anderson in CF, but think we'll try to brining in another OF as well. I'm not sold that Jerry Owens deserves a roster spot.

btrain929
06-12-2008, 02:25 PM
The only reason they would trade Jose is if the Sox could sign C.C Sabathia

He will be in a contract year. The only time we haven't traded a SP in their contract year was Buehrle because we wanted to sign him to an extension, which I'm pretty sure is out of the question with Jose. This year will build up his trade value, and he will be dealt in the winter. If we trade Garland in the last year of his deal and banked on Gavin Floyd being his replacement (so far, so good), I don't think it's out of the realm that Contreras is dealt in the last year of his contract.

gr8mexico
06-12-2008, 02:26 PM
Konerko will be here, Thome will not. I'd love Orlando Hudson....I think he offers a ton and Danny Richar scares me at second, especially with Alexei moving to SS (where I've only heard is his best position but haven't seen him play there more than maybe an inning or two).

I honestly don't see us spending the money it will take to bring in Sabathia. Contreras will be back or we'd sign a 2nd tier FA pitcher. Lance Broadway may be a possibility as well.

I could live with Anderson in CF, but think we'll try to brining in another OF as well. I'm not sold that Jerry Owens deserves a roster spot.
The Sox have no other option but to keep Thome his option get picked up automatically when he reaches his PA.

btrain929
06-12-2008, 02:41 PM
The Sox have no other option but to keep Thome his option get picked up automatically when he reaches his PA.

Well then I guess he won't be reaching his PA. Best case scenario is we hit September with a 9-12 game lead in the division and we can afford to "rest" Thome to get him fresh for the playoffs. Or, the opposite, lets say we fall to third place and have no shot at the Wild Card or division title, we can give some younger players to "develop".

Either way, if we allow him to hit that, it'll be a terrible move.

asindc
06-12-2008, 03:02 PM
2B-Orlando Hudson (FA Signing)
SS-Ramirez
1B-Swisher (Konerko He Gone)
LF-Quentin
DH-Thome
RF-Dye
C-AJ
3B-Fields
CF-Anderson

SP-Javy, C.C Sabathia, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan/Thornton, Russell/acquisition
Paul Konerko(12MIL) and Jose Contreras (10MIL) Joe Crede (5.2MIL) Juan Uribe(5MIL) are gone. In are Orlando Hudson (Gold Glove) & C.C Sabathia (ACE)

Sabathia ain't coming to the Sox, so leave that alone.

Craig Grebeck
06-12-2008, 10:11 PM
Are you for real? Why dont you do some research before you post. The starting 1B for the Giants is Rich Aurilia, The Starting 1B for the Angels is Casey Kotchman. Are you telling me that Konerko wouldnt be a better replacement?
Do you really think the Giants want to add yet another aging slugger to their horrific collection of "talent"? I find it funny that you tell me to do some research and then you claim that Konerko would be a better player than Casey Kotchman. Casey Kotchman, a 25 year old with a 118 OPS+, a 13/15 K/BB ratio and a small salary needs to be replaced by the 32 year old Paul Konerko, who is putting up a .373 SLG% at 12 million a year.

You left out the Dodgers, who obviously need to replace 24 year old James Loney.

Hopefully we can convince the Marlins they need Orlando Cabrera.

SoxFan64
06-13-2008, 02:36 AM
The sox have to buyout Thome's option and look to split DH with Dye/Konerko. I would love to keep Crede but it would depend if his demands are reasonable, and that is probably not going to be the case with Boras as his agent. So if Cabrera and Crede Leave, we would hopefull get four draft picks for two Type A players.

Crede is not a Type A player because he didn't play a full two years. (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/05/free-agent-st-3.html) Type A's are a two year average. So we will get Type B for Crede if he is not re-signed. :whiner:

Second source on type A Free Agents:
"Free Agents are ranked by the Elias Sports Bureau based on their previous two years of playing, and against players of similar positions. The top 20% of free agents are considered 'Type A' free agents, and the following 20% are 'Type B' free agents. Type A free agents will get their former team a supplemental round pick between the first and second rounds, and a compensatory pick from the signing team. Type B free agents get their former team just a supplemental round pick. To earn a compensatory pick, a free agent must either be signed before the arbitration deadline in early December, or be offered arbitration by their former team but still sign with someone else." Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Draft)


I also recall seeing this in a fan Q&A either by Gonzo or Merkin at the start of the season but can't find the link.

LoveYourSuit
06-13-2008, 02:42 AM
Thome's $13 million becomes guaranteed if he has 1100 plate appearances for 07-08 combined. He had 536 last year, so he needs 564 this year. He's nearly halfway there already.


GMs that put those kind of clauses on contracts ought to be sent to the Zoo to clean animal feces.

Thome is a huge OBP% guy who walks a ton meaning no offical ABs ..... I don't think Thome looks at stats but it makes you wonder when $13 millin is at stake here will he decide to hack away more often rahter than take a base.... Because I sure would.

gobears1987
06-13-2008, 02:43 AM
I would agree with that also; I thought Fields had more 1B experience. My bad if I misspoke.
Even if he has experience, I doubt you will find another person in the Sox organization who has a pick move like Paulie's. That is one thing everyone overlooks. No one notices that PK's defense is a huge part of why we turn so many great plays. Many 1st basemen would miss a lot of Crede or Cabrera's throws, but PK gets damn near every one of them.

Nellie_Fox
06-13-2008, 03:35 AM
GMs that put those kind of clauses on contracts ought to be sent to the Zoo to clean animal feces.

Thome is a huge OBP% guy who walks a ton meaning no offical ABs ..... I don't think Thome looks at stats but it makes you wonder when $13 million is at stake here will he decide to hack away more often rahter than take a base.... Because I sure would.It's based on Plate Appearances, not At Bats, so walks don't hurt him at all.

Frater Perdurabo
06-13-2008, 07:40 AM
I posted Brian's numbers vs Righties in another thread. He is doing really well against them:
He's hitting .292 with a .324 OBP and a .400 SLG.

So Ozzie has him bat #2 against a soft-tossing, crafty lefty. :rolleyes:

ondafarm
06-13-2008, 09:28 AM
Crede is not a Type A player because he didn't play a full two years. (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/05/free-agent-st-3.html) Type A's are a two year average. So we will get Type B for Crede if he is not re-signed. :whiner:

Second source on type A Free Agents:
"Free Agents are ranked by the Elias Sports Bureau based on their previous two years of playing, and against players of similar positions. The top 20% of free agents are considered 'Type A' free agents, and the following 20% are 'Type B' free agents. Type A free agents will get their former team a supplemental round pick between the first and second rounds, and a compensatory pick from the signing team. Type B free agents get their former team just a supplemental round pick. To earn a compensatory pick, a free agent must either be signed before the arbitration deadline in early December, or be offered arbitration by their former team but still sign with someone else." Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Draft)


I also recall seeing this in a fan Q&A either by Gonzo or Merkin at the start of the season but can't find the link.

I've seen the around the league action and I doubt Crede will get the Type A designation. Mind you, I think he deserves it, but I doubt he will get it.

ondafarm
06-13-2008, 09:30 AM
So Ozzie has him bat #2 against a soft-tossing, crafty lefty. :rolleyes:

I don't like the lineups that Ozzie has been making (ever really.)

doublem23
06-13-2008, 09:35 AM
GMs that put those kind of clauses on contracts ought to be sent to the Zoo to clean animal feces.

Yes, God forbid he be rewarded for staying healthy and productive. :rolleyes:

jabrch
06-13-2008, 09:51 AM
1 DL stint from here to the end of September will take care of that. That would be an utter waste of money.

Sure it would - but we can't manage 2009 payroll at the expense of 2008 games. There is still the feeling that A) Thome will pick it up and B) Even if he doesn't, he's still on pace to hit 30+ HR and may very well be our best DH option to win it this year. If some other DH becomes available, that's a different story. But to me, 2008 is the priority. 2009 is a secondary concern.

spiffie
06-13-2008, 10:16 AM
Sure it would - but we can't manage 2009 payroll at the expense of 2008 games. There is still the feeling that A) Thome will pick it up and B) Even if he doesn't, he's still on pace to hit 30+ HR and may very well be our best DH option to win it this year. If some other DH becomes available, that's a different story. But to me, 2008 is the priority. 2009 is a secondary concern.
Assuming all the information is correct about how many PA's Thome needs to automatically vest his option, a few selected days off, and some late-inning subs against lefty relievers of the non-closer variety (the kind that generally kill Thome) and you can manage that number without doing any real damage to the team's chances of winning.

thedudeabides
06-13-2008, 10:41 AM
No way are the Sox getting C.C. Sabathia, either, IMO. The Yankees are shedding a ton of payroll and I fully expect Hank Steinbrenner to open up his checkbook faster than a drunk in Vegas. He's not going to be worth the deal it's going to take to top what NY will offer.

:rolling:

thedudeabides
06-13-2008, 11:01 AM
Good discussion. I am very excited about this years team, and no matter what sources have said about our minor league system I am very excited about our future. Things to keep in mind: whatever you want to say about JR, he and this organization are very loyal to players who have been good producers and teamates. One of the agreements Dye had when he re-signed was that he could stay in right field. I don't think they'll sandbag Thome just so he doesn't meet his numbers. Remember, we're in a divisional battle and we'll need him.And whoever said it earlier is correct, it's based on plate appearances. Walks have no bearing,

I also think Jose will go nowhere, I think he is comfortable here and would even look at taking a respectable extension. He seems to have an arm that will last and I think worst case scenario, he could be a very good reliever.

The Orlando Hudson idea is a great one, but I know he is more of a #2 hitter than leadoff. Awesome defense.

I would love to see Crede come back and I think he may. Borass is losing a lot of power, and how awesome is that to see?

Fields is a luxury who the Sox can treat in many ways, but I think trading him is not one of them. Of course, with the right deal that could change.

And Beuhrle and Konerko are going nowhere.

palehozenychicty
06-13-2008, 11:12 AM
Good discussion. I am very excited about this years team, and no matter what sources have said about our minor league system I am very excited about our future. Things to keep in mind: whatever you want to say about JR, he and this organization are very loyal to players who have been good producers and teamates. One of the agreements Dye had when he re-signed was that he could stay in right field. I don't think they'll sandbag Thome just so he doesn't meet his numbers. Remember, we're in a divisional battle and we'll need him.And whoever said it earlier is correct, it's based on plate appearances. Walks have no bearing,

I also think Jose will go nowhere, I think he is comfortable here and would even look at taking a respectable extension. He seems to have an arm that will last and I think worst case scenario, he could be a very good reliever.

The Orlando Hudson idea is a great one, but I know he is more of a #2 hitter than leadoff. Awesome defense.

I would love to see Crede come back and I think he may. Borass is losing a lot of power, and how awesome is that to see?

Fields is a luxury who the Sox can treat in many ways, but I think trading him is not one of them. Of course, with the right deal that could change.

And Beuhrle and Konerko are going nowhere.

I like the way that he's thrown this year, but I hope that they can get someone to take him in the offseason. He's just too inconsistent to rely on as a cog in the rotation. He's also 87 years old. :D:

kittle42
06-13-2008, 05:40 PM
If you want to judge a player based on less than the equivalent of a full MLB season - BA has 495 career ABs - and ignore the obvious upward trend in his hitting and an improvement in his attitude, go right ahead.

Only 505 more ABs before we have any right to assess his play!

Frater Perdurabo
06-13-2008, 10:32 PM
Only 505 more ABs before we have any right to assess his play!

You can assess him all you want. Because of all the other skills he has, I just think it's short-sighted to judge him as a total player before he plays the equivalent of two MLB seasons. You probably would have given up on Crede well before 2005, Ventura after his awful 0-43 slump to start his full MLB season, etc....

whitesox901
06-13-2008, 10:49 PM
C-AJ
1B-Konerko
2B-Richar
SS-Ramirez
3B-Fields
LF-Quentin
CF-Anderson
RF-Swisher
DH-

SP-MB, Javy, Contreras, Danks, Floyd
BP-Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, Masset, Logan, Wasserman

Not bad, im gonna DH Dye, and try to get ride of konerko, maybe getting some first baseman from someones AAA ready for big league play for crede maybe.

TomBradley72
06-14-2008, 12:06 AM
If we have Ramirez, Fields, Quentin, Swisher and Anderson in our starting line up...that a very cost efficient roster. I hope we invest in a high quality FA 2nd baseman vs. going with Richar.

TomBradley72
06-14-2008, 12:08 AM
GMs that put those kind of clauses on contracts ought to be sent to the Zoo to clean animal feces.

Thome is a huge OBP% guy who walks a ton meaning no offical ABs ..... I don't think Thome looks at stats but it makes you wonder when $13 millin is at stake here will he decide to hack away more often rahter than take a base.... Because I sure would.

Total Plate Appearances includes walks, sac flies,etc. It's "Official ABs" that excludes walks.

Nellie_Fox
06-14-2008, 01:12 AM
I don't like the lineups that Ozzie has been making (ever really.)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/Pandabonium/slide/GomerPyle.jpgSURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

thedudeabides
06-14-2008, 01:34 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/Pandabonium/slide/GomerPyle.jpgSURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

That's awesome. Nice creativity.

kittle42
06-14-2008, 05:54 PM
You can assess him all you want. Because of all the other skills he has, I just think it's short-sighted to judge him as a total player before he plays the equivalent of two MLB seasons. You probably would have given up on Crede well before 2005, Ventura after his awful 0-43 slump to start his full MLB season, etc....

$10,000 says Anderson doesn't have half the career either of those two have/had.

SoxSpeed22
06-14-2008, 06:10 PM
$10,000 says Anderson doesn't have half the career either of those two have/had.Unfortunately, having at-bats like the one yesterday in the 7th, with the bases loaded and no one out, is the exact reason that he's not an everyday starter.

SoxNation05
06-14-2008, 06:23 PM
My far fetched lineup.
SS Furcal
CF Rameriz
LF Quentin
1B Konerko
RF Swisher
3B Crede
C Pierzynski
DH Fields
2B Ellis/Hudson

getonbckthr
06-14-2008, 06:56 PM
A) Jose Contreras: Not only is his success key to our 08 success but he is becoming a very tradeable asset. Especially coming off of a season where he has a 3.10 era ( on pace). Personally looking at his age and last season this is potential for another Kenny ripoff.
B) Orlando Hudson: Please god no. Apparently he is gonna want somewhere between 14-17 per year. Suddenly Uribe at 4 million looks alot better.
C) Joe Crede: I see no reason why Joe Crede can't be resigned. Salaries I figure off the books for next season: Cabrera (8m), Contreras (10m), Uribe (4.5m), MacDougal (1.95m) and Hall (1.95m). Right there is about 26 million. Crede is already at 5 million. If you were to pay him 15m (probably high end contract) you will still gain 12m. Contract increases add up to about 6 million. Leaving us 6 million under this years payroll. Holes left are from these moves are 2B/SS,backup IF, backup Catcher, and a SP. Assuming Richar takes 2nd at league minimum and we bring up a b/u catcher we still have 5 million for a b/u IF and a SP before we reach this seasons payroll.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2008, 09:05 PM
$10,000 says Anderson doesn't have half the career either of those two have/had.

Not going to bet you. I'm inclined to agree, actually.

But I think Anderson could be the equivalent of Mike Cameron. I'd rather it be with the Sox and not another team. And that's why I'm not willing to write him off.

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 11:36 AM
I wonder what it would take to acquire Prince Fielder as it appears he will be available come this offseason.

jabrch
06-15-2008, 12:07 PM
B) Orlando Hudson: Please god no. Apparently he is gonna want somewhere between 14-17 per year. Suddenly Uribe at 4 million looks alot better.

14-17mm per? Are you serious? I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot poll at that price.

whitesox901
06-15-2008, 01:52 PM
I wonder what it would take to acquire Prince Fielder as it appears he will be available come this offseason.

That would kick ass

OF - Owens
SS - Ramirez
DH - Fielder
OF - Quenton
3B - Crede/Fields
C - Pierzynski
1B - Swisher
2B - Richar
OF - Anderson

Young with a jolt of power and speed

getonbckthr
06-15-2008, 01:53 PM
That would kick ass

OF - Owens
SS - Ramirez
DH - Fielder
OF - Quenton
3B - Crede/Fields
C - Pierzynski
1B - Swisher
2B - Richar
OF - Anderson

Young with a jolt of power and speed
Where did Konerko go?

Craig Grebeck
06-15-2008, 02:34 PM
Can people stop including Jerry Owens in these "kick-ass" lineups?

whitesox901
06-15-2008, 06:04 PM
Where did Konerko go?

He double played himself outta town