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View Full Version : Who Should be the #2 Batter in the WSox Batting Order?


TomBradley72
06-11-2008, 03:44 PM
With Alexei Ramirez coming on like gangbusters, who do you think should be the White Sox #2 hitter in the batting order?

Between his lack of speed and his ability to drive the ball and drive in runs, I'd like to see AJ farther down in the order. I'd like to see more speed on base before we get to our #3-#5 hitters. I also like Alexei's ability to bunt, hit & run, etc.

Thoughts?

SoxFan78
06-11-2008, 03:49 PM
I think in the beginning of the year before the tweaking it might of sounded like a good idea, but I like the lineup how it is now.

How AJ is working out in the 2 hole is something that I cannot comprehend. But, it seems like whenever Alexi is hitting lower in the order, he has people on base, and seems to hit them in or at least advance them.

Maybe when Ozzie decides to make a third overhaul to the order then I can see the cuban missle in the two spot, but not right now.

asindc
06-11-2008, 03:49 PM
I vote for Alexei, mainly because I'm not sure he could handle leadoff just yet. If I thought he could, I'd vote for OC. Next year, maybe Richar, with Alexei moving to leadoff.

ChiTownTrojan
06-11-2008, 03:51 PM
With Alexei Ramirez coming on like gangbusters, does who do you think should be the White Sox #2 hitter in the batting order?

Between his lack of speed and his ability to drive the ball and drive in runs, I'd like to see AJ farther down in the order. I'd also like to see more speed on base before we get to our #3-#5 hitters.

Thoughts?

It's a possibility, for the reasons you mentioned. But do you think he can "handle the bat" like a 2 hitter? You want the guy in the 2 spot to be able to do a lot of different things - bunting, situational hitting, etc. I'm not sure that you want to ask a rookie to think about all that stuff and put pressure on him. In the 9 spot, he can just go out there and hit. Plus, he serves as a second lead-off guy for the second time through the order.

Of course, Alexei isn't the typical rookie, he's older and has been playing pro ball longer, so maybe he can handle it. He definitely knows how to lay down a bunt better than most players on the team.

kobo
06-11-2008, 04:03 PM
I vote for Alexei, mainly because I'm not sure he could handle leadoff just yet. If I thought he could, I'd vote for OC. Next year, maybe Richar, with Alexei moving to leadoff.
Not until Ramirez shows he can work a count and take walks. He's fine where he is right now.

turners56
06-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Keep A.J. in there. Both he and Alexei make a lot of contact, but when it comes to playing smart ball, A.J. is the one you want in a more crucial spot like that.

Paulwny
06-11-2008, 04:05 PM
Not until Ramirez shows he can work a count and take walks. He's fine where he is right now.

Agree, AJ will usually look at a few pitches , ideal for the 2nd hole with a runner at first.

KenBerryGrab
06-11-2008, 04:12 PM
A.J. in the two hole is a spark the way Fisk in the two hole was in '83.
Remember the future!

Frontman
06-11-2008, 04:17 PM
I say leave it alone unless the team struggles.

ElevenUp
06-11-2008, 04:18 PM
I'm definitely sticking with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset with this question. Alexei makes a lot of contact, but he's not taking enough pitches at this point to be a #2.

lukeman89
06-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Agree, AJ will usually look at a few pitches , ideal for the 2nd hole with a runner at first.

i think AJ is one of the biggest free swingers on the team. he swings at pretty much everything

ElmhurstMarcus
06-11-2008, 04:22 PM
I think OC should be the 2 hitter with Alexei being the leadoff hitter. Alexei doesnt strike out, he can bunt, good speed, can steal a base, he does everything you want in a leadoff hitter except for walk. Even though OC hasent walked very much, he still see's a lot of pitches and can get down a bunt as well as execute a hit and run, which Alexei was not able to do. I think those two could flip flop but ideally i would want Alexei one and OC two.

Paulwny
06-11-2008, 04:24 PM
i think AJ is one of the biggest free swingers on the team. he swings at pretty much everything

Where did I say he's wasn't a free swinger? I said he'll usually look at a few pitches.

gobears1987
06-11-2008, 04:24 PM
Alexei is a good future #2 or leadoff, but he's not ready yet. Besides, I like productivity in the 9 hole. Heck I think all 9 bats in our lineup right now can do something.

Frater Perdurabo
06-11-2008, 04:52 PM
I'd rather have Ramirez in the #2 hole and put AJ lower in an RBI position. That way, when Hall subs for AJ, Ozzie doesn't have to shuffle the lineup. I'd also use Swisher as the one guy to bounce around in the lineup when he's not playing CF; he could bat 3, 4, 5, 6 or 9.

Cabrera
Ramirez
Quentin/Swisher
Thome/Swisher
Paulie/Swisher
Dye/Swisher
Crede
AJ/Hall
Swisher/BA

jabrch
06-11-2008, 04:55 PM
I'm not sure it makes any difference. I'd go with Alexei since he is a better fastball hitter and you see more fastballs up higher in the order, but I really don't think it matters much at all.

PolishPower83
06-11-2008, 04:59 PM
A-J is fine where he is right now. He is awesome with the bat and he can lay down a bunt if he needs to. I say don't tinker with Alexei...YET...but if he continues to refine his game I think he should get a shot at leadoff shortly after the All-Star break.

SoxyStu
06-11-2008, 05:10 PM
I like AJ there. I can't help but think that in '05 Hawk was meddling with AJ persuading him to swing for the fences and, as a result, he has his worst year of his career--average-wise.

Madscout
06-11-2008, 05:20 PM
I gotta go with AJ. The guy is an average hitter, has a below average arm, is a pretty good fielder, and runs the bases ok, but to my eyes, he is our ace in the hole. The guy wants to win so much that he almost wills things to happen, and he almost always comes through in situations. A fly ball deep to the outfield, AJ will get it done. A bunt, AJ will get it down. I like to have him up all we can, and the 2 hole is a great place for that. Moving Alexi now might screw with his rhythm and we don't want that. Cabrera is hitting ok out of the 1 hole, and with both of them hitting well in front of AJ, there is a lot of room for him to come up for us in big situations. I like that.

TomBradley72
06-11-2008, 05:21 PM
Agree, AJ will usually look at a few pitches , ideal for the 2nd hole with a runner at first.

Over the last 30 days...Ramirez has drawn about the same # of walks as AJ (4 to his 5) in 20 fewer ABs, his OBP is .402 to AJ's .350, he strikes out less frequently than AJ (8 K's in 77 ABs vs. AJ's 14 in 97 ABs)....I can't really argue for an immediate change. But if these trends hold up...I think Alexei is a better fit for this role...and gives us another guy that can score from 1st on a double/from 2nd on a single at the top of the order.

TomBradley72
06-11-2008, 05:22 PM
I like AJ there. I can't help but think that in '05 Hawk was meddling with AJ persuading him to swing for the fences and, as a result, he has his worst year of his career--average-wise.

What do you base this on?

Madscout
06-11-2008, 05:22 PM
Over the last 30 days...Ramirez has drawn about the same # of walks as AJ (4 to his 5) in 20 fewer ABs, his OBP is .402 to AJ's .350, he strikes out less frequently than AJ (8 K's in 77 ABs vs. AJ's 14 in 97 ABs)....I can't really argue for an immediate change. But if these trends hold up...I think Alexei is a better fit for this role...and gives us another guy that can score from 1st on a double/from 2nd on a single at the top of the order.
He has also been hitting out of the 9 hole, where as AJ is in the 2 hole. AJ gets in more AB. I think part of Alexi's success is that pitchers don't want to walk him with the top coming up, and they don't have the scouting reports that tell them not to throw a first pitch fastball to the guy.

TomBradley72
06-11-2008, 05:27 PM
He has also been hitting out of the 9 hole, where as AJ is in the 2 hole. AJ gets in more AB. I think part of Alexi's success is that pitchers don't want to walk him with the top coming up, and they don't have the scouting reports that tell them not to throw a first pitch fastball to the guy.

I can't buy the lack of scouting reports angle. But I think you're right about the fastballs...which would probably be even more of a benefit for Alexei with Quentin, Konerko, Dye, etc. behind him in the order.

SoxyStu
06-11-2008, 05:42 PM
What do you base this on?

Hawk, himself, said this a couple of times during the 05 season during broadcasts that he was chatting with Aj about this. If I remember correctly, Aj was typically a .290/.300 hitter in Minnesota, driving a lot balls to the gaps. Then, in 05, he drops to .254 and his doubles numbers drop as well. I'm not declaring that this is the sole reason for the average drop, but this is what I remember. I'm not in Aj's head and I don't know if he listened to Hawk, but Hawk was certainly pleased enough to share this information during broadcasts.

BadBobbyJenks
06-11-2008, 05:43 PM
If we had a better leadoff option I would prefer OC back in the 2 hole, but we don't.

ArkanSox
06-11-2008, 06:29 PM
but I'd like to see what Alexei can do in the lead-off spot. He has exceeded all of my expectations thus far, and I wish Ozzie would at least give him a shot there. I'm speculating, of course, but I feel that he could really be something special. His bat control is excellent, he can beat out bunts, and with time and a little nutrition, he may even achieve RHenderson type pop.

Oh yeah, and he can steal bases. I voted for OC in the second slot.

ArkanSox

JB98
06-11-2008, 11:22 PM
I'd leave Alexei where he is - for now. Keep him low in the order while he's learning the league and learning how to be an MLB player.

In the future, I see him as a top-of-the-order hitter. That time hasn't quite arrived yet.

Craig Grebeck
06-12-2008, 01:50 AM
Well AJ and Alexei both swing at an absurd amount of balls outside of the strike zone, so ideally neither of them would be there. I guess AJ.

Domeshot17
06-12-2008, 02:17 AM
In 2005 we had a rookie foreign 2b and we won the world series the year after Boston won it with a team who had a shakey offense and a pitching staff coming from nowhere.

Bucky F. Dent
06-12-2008, 08:40 AM
With Alexei Ramirez coming on like gangbusters, who do you think should be the White Sox #2 hitter in the batting order?

Between his lack of speed and his ability to drive the ball and drive in runs, I'd like to see AJ farther down in the order. I'd like to see more speed on base before we get to our #3-#5 hitters. I also like Alexei's ability to bunt, hit & run, etc.

Thoughts?


For all the talent he has shown, A.Ram. is too green to the league to place in the two hole. Let him continue his development down the order.

ChiSoxFan7
06-12-2008, 09:56 AM
when aleixi tried to steal on pudge for the second time, it was some what pods-esque (sp?) I think he needs to be higher in the order. i don't think he's a true number 2, but if he were to leadoff and have aj behind him, i think it would be a pretty potent 1-2 punch (just like pods and iguchi...and i think that turned out alright for us:cool:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:A7zA6IvmuBHxoM:http://friarforecast.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/iguchi_1.jpg http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:YjD4OSbVbifT6M:http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image%3Fprovider_id%3D314%26size%3D550x550_mb% 26ptp_photo_id%3D382590

RockyMtnSoxFan
06-12-2008, 01:09 PM
I gotta go with AJ. The guy is an average hitter, has a below average arm, is a pretty good fielder, and runs the bases ok, but to my eyes, he is our ace in the hole. The guy wants to win so much that he almost wills things to happen, and he almost always comes through in situations. A fly ball deep to the outfield, AJ will get it done. A bunt, AJ will get it down. I like to have him up all we can, and the 2 hole is a great place for that. Moving Alexi now might screw with his rhythm and we don't want that. Cabrera is hitting ok out of the 1 hole, and with both of them hitting well in front of AJ, there is a lot of room for him to come up for us in big situations. I like that.

I agree with this assessment. I think AJ has the most baseball smarts of anyone on the team, and he plays the game hard. Plus, if you put Alexei in the #9 spot, you have Cabrera batting after him, so he becomes a #2 in after the first inning.

I don't know why Ozzie put Alexei at #8 and Hall at #9 today. I prefer the back to back speed threats.

Frater Perdurabo
06-12-2008, 06:18 PM
I don't know why Ozzie put Alexei at #8 and Hall at #9 today. I prefer the back to back speed threats.

I agree.

I am a big Brian Anderson fan, but I was mystified that Ozzie had him bat #2 today. He's not a #2 hitter.

gosox41
06-12-2008, 09:58 PM
With Alexei Ramirez coming on like gangbusters, who do you think should be the White Sox #2 hitter in the batting order?

Between his lack of speed and his ability to drive the ball and drive in runs, I'd like to see AJ farther down in the order. I'd like to see more speed on base before we get to our #3-#5 hitters. I also like Alexei's ability to bunt, hit & run, etc.

Thoughts?


Fisk??

Seriously, I remember in '83 this team took off when Fisk moved to #2 and the Sox traded for Cruz.

I hope Ozzie could find a similar catalyst with this team to get a more ideal #2 hitter then AJ.


Bob

TomBradley72
06-12-2008, 10:06 PM
Fisk??

Seriously, I remember in '83 this team took off when Fisk moved to #2 and the Sox traded for Cruz.

I hope Ozzie could find a similar catalyst with this team to get a more ideal #2 hitter then AJ.


Bob

Some folks are comparing AJ moving into the #2 slot with LaRussa's move of Fisk...but I don't see it....Fisk was struggling at the plate...part of moving him up was to get HIM going...get him more involved in the offense, etc.

I just think we're wasting what AJ has to offer in the 2 slot...I don't want him bunting, or working the count, or hit and running...I want him lower in the order where he's prmarily focused on driving the ball and driving in runs.

Last week's offensive output was a "mirage". I think some combination of OC/Ramirez in 1-2 could be a catalyst for us..

Craig Grebeck
06-12-2008, 10:12 PM
Some folks are comparing AJ moving into the #2 slot with LaRussa's move of Fisk...but I don't see it....Fisk was struggling at the plate...part of moving him up was to get HIM going...get him more involved in the offense, etc.

I just think we're wasting what AJ has to offer in the 2 slot...I don't want him bunting, or working the count, or hit and running...I want him lower in the order where he's prmarily focused on driving the ball and driving in runs.

Last week's offensive output was a "mirage". I think some combination of OC/Ramirez in 1-2 could be a catalyst for us..

Why in the world wouldn't you want someone working the count?

TomBradley72
06-13-2008, 12:43 AM
Why in the world wouldn't you want someone working the count?

That wasn't my point...of course situationally working the count makes sense. I just think there's a reason AJ has never been a #2 before...just like Swisher has never led off....we keep asking our hitters to do things they've never been asked to do...and I don't think it plays to their strengths. I believe AJ's skills are better utilized lower in the order.