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View Full Version : For a good team, we seem to make dumb mistakes


regionsox73
06-11-2008, 10:46 AM
Just recently it seems we have made some bonehead plays in the OF and on the bases. Specifically Quentin's defense on Monday with the throwing error and throwing to the wrong base (which I seem to remember happening a few times in recent weeks) and base running mistakes (like Cabrera's steal yesterday). I would chalk it up to a brain fart, but even the announcers (Stone and DJ) had gotten on the players so maybe they should know better.

Aside from the pitching holding up, the mental errors are my concern. Hopefully we take 2 of 3 in Detroit!

turners56
06-11-2008, 10:48 AM
Yeah, we had a lot of bad base running and Swisher allowed a run to score by over-running a ball. Thing is though, our offense didn't come through last night in the clutch (see Alexei Ramirez, Paul Konerko, and Joe Crede) and Ozzie made some bad managerial choices along with Jose being bad. It wasn't our night. Best way to improve is to come back tonight and outplay the Tigers.

btrain929
06-11-2008, 10:54 AM
Yeah, we had a lot of bad base running and Swisher allowed a run to score by over-running a ball. Thing is though, our offense didn't come through last night in the clutch (see Alexei Ramirez, Paul Konerko, and Joe Crede) and Ozzie made some bad managerial choices along with Jose being bad. It wasn't our night. Best way to improve is to come back tonight and outplay the Tigers.

What did Alexei do last night where he didn't come through in the clutch?

turners56
06-11-2008, 10:56 AM
What did Alexei do last night where he didn't come through in the clutch?

Almost grounded into a DP in the 7th. If it wasn't for his speed, we would of came out of that inning empty handed.

hi im skot
06-11-2008, 11:02 AM
I suppose we were due for some bitching after a seven-game winning streak.

VeeckAsInWreck
06-11-2008, 11:04 AM
I suppose we were due for some bitching after a seven-game winning streak.

:welcome:

turners56
06-11-2008, 11:04 AM
I suppose we were due for some bitching after a seven-game winning streak.

To be honest, I'm starting to have a really bad feeling about these next 2 games. I don't know why.

hi im skot
06-11-2008, 11:11 AM
:welcome:

:happybday

SoxGirl4Life
06-11-2008, 11:13 AM
To be honest, I'm starting to have a really bad feeling about these next 2 games. I don't know why.


Because you don't want to get your hopes up and would rather be pleasantly surprised than horribly disappointed?

jabrch
06-11-2008, 11:14 AM
To be honest, I'm starting to have a really bad feeling about these next 2 games. I don't know why.


Completely unsurprising...

turners56
06-11-2008, 11:14 AM
Because you don't want to get your hopes up and would rather be pleasantly surprised than horribly disappointed?

No, I'm not that kind of person.

spiffie
06-11-2008, 11:15 AM
I suppose we were due for some bitching after a seven-game winning streak.
The fact that we won 7 straight games doesn't make any of the things said in this thread untrue. Cabrera has been doing a lot of weird things on the basepaths even during the winning streak. And bad fundamentals are a worry no matter what.

doublem23
06-11-2008, 11:16 AM
The Tigers suck, Verlander is garbage, Silver and Black prevail tonight.

turners56
06-11-2008, 11:18 AM
The Tigers suck, Verlander is garbage, Silver and
Black prevail tonight.

And I thought Contreras was going to shutout the Tigers. Verlander has been pitching better of late btw. But then again, the Sox usually kill him.

kjhanson
06-11-2008, 11:18 AM
Probably belongs more in the post-game thread than anywhere else, but last night was a poorly managed ballgame all around.

In the 5th, Cabrera should have been walked to face Larish.
In the 7th, Contreras should not have come out to pitch. (had given up 8 hits in the last 3 innings and runs in each of those three)
In the 8th, Quentin should not have been sent home. That was inexplicable with only out in the inning.

Swisher running hard on the ball was a tough break, but bases loaded, no one out, the run probably scores anyways. The stolen base attempts were odd considering the lefty on the mound and Rodriguez behind the plate, though our second run was because of the stolen base.

To this point, I've thought Cox has done a real good job at third, and I'll always support Ozzie's decisions. However, I'd put last night more on the coaches not putting their players in the right position to succeed more than anything else - though an timely extra-base hit wouldn't have hurt either.

SoxGirl4Life
06-11-2008, 11:18 AM
No, I'm not that kind of person.


Oh, that must just be me! lol

ElmhurstMarcus
06-11-2008, 12:58 PM
For whatever reason, it seems to me that the players making the most mistakes are the new players coming over to the sox. I dont know how many base running mistakes OC has made this year. Quentin didn't get the ball back in quick enough the other day allowing Mauer to get into 3rd. Swish making the error in Center to allow a Tiger to score, and Ramirez not knowing how many outs there are on the basepaths, not sure if its just a coinsidence but it seems like a lot of our first year players making the mistakes.

Lip Man 1
06-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Keep in mind Daver's comment about Sox players in the minor leagues being moved up if they can hit, regardless of whether they can do anything else (i.e. run, steal bases, execute fundamentals, defense). I think his comment carries weight.

Lip

hi im skot
06-11-2008, 01:09 PM
Keep in mind Daver's comment about Sox players in the minor leagues being moved up if they can hit, regardless of whether they can do anything else (i.e. run, steal bases, execute fundamentals, defense). I think his comment carries weight.

Lip

Cabrera, Swisher, and Quentin (who are consistent/recent offenders) haven't spent any time in the Sox minor league system.

voodoochile
06-11-2008, 01:10 PM
Probably belongs more in the post-game thread than anywhere else, but last night was a poorly managed ballgame all around.

In the 5th, Cabrera should have been walked to face Larish.
In the 7th, Contreras should not have come out to pitch. (had given up 8 hits in the last 3 innings and runs in each of those three)
In the 8th, Quentin should not have been sent home. That was inexplicable with only out in the inning.

Swisher running hard on the ball was a tough break, but bases loaded, no one out, the run probably scores anyways. The stolen base attempts were odd considering the lefty on the mound and Rodriguez behind the plate, though our second run was because of the stolen base.

To this point, I've thought Cox has done a real good job at third, and I'll always support Ozzie's decisions. However, I'd put last night more on the coaches not putting their players in the right position to succeed more than anything else - though an timely extra-base hit wouldn't have hurt either.

I agree and the timing seems odd to me. I mean this team has been killing the ball the last several days. Everyone is hitting for the first time all year so suddenly OG decides it's time to whip out the hyper aggressive small ball attack. 4 weeks ago, this would have been welcome with the team mired in an offensive rut, but why yesterday? :scratch:

comet2k
06-11-2008, 01:27 PM
Probably belongs more in the post-game thread than anywhere else, but last night was a poorly managed ballgame all around.

In the 5th, Cabrera should have been walked to face Larish.
In the 7th, Contreras should not have come out to pitch. (had given up 8 hits in the last 3 innings and runs in each of those three)
In the 8th, Quentin should not have been sent home. That was inexplicable with only out in the inning.

Swisher running hard on the ball was a tough break, but bases loaded, no one out, the run probably scores anyways. The stolen base attempts were odd considering the lefty on the mound and Rodriguez behind the plate, though our second run was because of the stolen base.

To this point, I've thought Cox has done a real good job at third, and I'll always support Ozzie's decisions. However, I'd put last night more on the coaches not putting their players in the right position to succeed more than anything else - though an timely extra-base hit wouldn't have hurt either.

I thought the same things -- after the fact. My hindsight isn't perfect, but it's often better than the foresight of others.

SoxGirl4Life
06-11-2008, 01:32 PM
Actually, if we would have done a little bit more in about 20 of our 27 losses, they would have been wins.

We took one we probably should have lost Monday, so I figure Tuesday was that evening out.

turners56
06-11-2008, 01:34 PM
Actually, if we would have done a little bit more in about 20 of our 27 losses, they would have been wins.

We took one we probably should have lost Monday, so I figure Tuesday was that evening out.

So we could be 57-7? Woah!

SoxGirl4Life
06-11-2008, 01:37 PM
So we could be 57-7? Woah!
shuddup...lol you know what I mean..

Lip Man 1
06-11-2008, 02:30 PM
I wasn't specifically talking about those three players simply an observation of the system in general. Sorry I didn't word things better. My bad.

Lip

JB98
06-11-2008, 02:38 PM
Even at the big-league level, most baseball games are lost more than they are won. (I hate to sound like Hawk, but it's true).

If you shuffle through our 27 losses, you'll probably find about 10-12 examples of the Sox beating themselves. I think it's that way for most teams.

The Sox definitely shot themselves in the foot on multiple occasions last night. Players and coaches made some highly questionable decisions out there.

hi im skot
06-11-2008, 03:05 PM
I wasn't specifically talking about those three players simply an observation of the system in general. Sorry I didn't word things better. My bad.

Lip

It's cool...obviously, the Sox organization doesn't preach the fundamentals as well as, say, the Twins.

I'm picking up what you're throwing down, Lip.
:cool:

asindc
06-11-2008, 03:23 PM
Even at the big-league level, most baseball games are lost more than they are won. (I hate to sound like Hawk, but it's true).

If you shuffle through our 27 losses, you'll probably find about 10-12 examples of the Sox beating themselves. I think it's that way for most teams.

The Sox definitely shot themselves in the foot on multiple occasions last night. Players and coaches made some highly questionable decisions out there.

This is why a more experienced but SLIGHTLY less talented team will ultimately prevail in a long season and in the playoffs over a more-talented but less experienced team.

I think Cabrera, Swisher, Ramirez, and Quentin are all still trying to get in rhythm with Ozzie and the coaches, and get more comfortable with their roles on the team. I know it sounds odd, especially with TCQ's season thus far, but I do believe some subtle adjustments are there to be made.

I think the use of speed is still underrated in baseball, but the sending of Quentin home on that play was a bad coaching decision. Cabrera's decision to steal third seems ill-advised, but I happen to like that move... it just didn't work.

Bottom line, I would rather see the Sox playing like this, with a few fundamentals/problems to work out, then like last year when I questioned the desire of many of the players on the team. This team is playing for something real, which wasn't the case most of last year it seems.

TDog
06-11-2008, 05:19 PM
I wasn't specifically talking about those three players simply an observation of the system in general. Sorry I didn't word things better. My bad.

Lip

Still, Nick Swisher's father spent some time in the White Sox farm system, and that must have contaminated the Swisher gene pool.

The Tigers ran into an out lat the plate last night that unfortunately resulted in a run when the throw short-hopped Pierzynski. So without the Tigers' aggressive baserunning and with less White Sox aggressive baserunning, the Sox probably would have won.

Baseball happens fast. You don't have time to think about your choices. Sometimes the wrong decisions work out and the right decisions don't. I like the fact that the Sox aren't playing scared. Part of swagger is taking the extra base, and part of taking the extra base is getting thrown out.