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CHIsoxNation
06-10-2008, 03:31 PM
http://danny-knobler.blogs.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/8786735

I can't believe the Tigers spent $29mil to keep him around for another 3 years.

jabrch
06-10-2008, 03:36 PM
Enjoy the bus rides Dontrelle.

spiffie
06-10-2008, 03:39 PM
Quite the cautionary tale for anyone ready to anoint John Danks and Gavin Floyd as sure-fire successes for years to come. Pitching is damn hard, and sometimes even guys who were really good at it stop being good at it.

I can understand why Detroit picked him up in the trade, but that extension was just goofy.

PolishPower83
06-10-2008, 03:40 PM
Class A??? That's hilarious.

palehozenychicty
06-10-2008, 03:41 PM
http://danny-knobler.blogs.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/8786735

I can't believe the Tigers spent $29mil to keep him around for another 3 years.


That is just crazy to think that people were predicting Cy Youngs for him back in 2003! :o:

As Oz would say, "You don't know what's going to happen."

hose
06-10-2008, 03:44 PM
I'll wait to see if Willis can get back on track because I trust Dombrowski's judgement of talent .

The contract extension otoh was not necessary, that left me scratching my head.:scratch:

SoxGirl4Life
06-10-2008, 03:44 PM
Ouch. However, if anyone saw last night's game, it was right out of Bull Durham. Before the breathing through his eyelids thing.

Mr.1Dog
06-10-2008, 03:44 PM
That's a shame.

bigsoxfan420
06-10-2008, 03:46 PM
You gotta love for the simple fact that during the off season the media (and half the people here!) thought that the Tigers would be even more unstopable with him being added to the team and how the Sox missed out on getting him, that Kenny is an idiot, etc..

I guess KW get's the last laugh.

thedudeabides
06-10-2008, 03:46 PM
I actually feel bad for him, because he seems like a good guy, but then again he plays for the Tigers.

The Immigrant
06-10-2008, 03:47 PM
They should make him into a left fielder (half-teal), but not before firing Dombrowski and the whole crew of clowns responsible for the Cabrera/Willis and Renteria trades.

ondafarm
06-10-2008, 03:51 PM
Ouch. However, if anyone saw last night's game, it was right out of Bull Durham. Before the breathing through his eyelids thing.

Six runs on six hits six walks and six hit batsmen.

The Immigrant
06-10-2008, 03:51 PM
There's some EPIC buffoonery in this thread: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95317&highlight=miguel

bigsoxfan420
06-10-2008, 03:51 PM
I should say that I feel bad for him as well. My statement above was not meant to show any negative words toward Dontrelle.

I hope for his sake that he will get back on the horse, but only after the Sox get insurmountable lead :tongue:

spawn
06-10-2008, 03:52 PM
Six runs on six hits six walks and six hit batsmen.
I guess 6 is his lucky number.

SoxGirl4Life
06-10-2008, 03:57 PM
I guess 6 is his lucky number.


Maybe 6 weeks in Single-A.

SoxGirl4Life
06-10-2008, 03:58 PM
Six runs on six hits six walks and six hit batsmen.


Can you imagine what a GOOD offense team would have done with that?

The Milkman
06-10-2008, 04:02 PM
''All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us.'' --KW

palehozenychicty
06-10-2008, 04:04 PM
There's some EPIC buffoonery in this thread: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95317&highlight=miguel


I just read through this one, and the statements made are astounding for even this board. :o:!

Even Cabrera already has swallowed up a couple pizzas since he signed that mega-deal.

Miller has shown flashes of brilliance in Fla, and Maybin still needs time, but he'll be up soon.

You just don't know anymore.

palehozenychicty
06-10-2008, 04:05 PM
''All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us.'' --KW


That quote is definitely ninja.

UofCSoxFan
06-10-2008, 04:21 PM
I actually lived in Lakeland for a year about 20 years ago before moving to Chicago. I'd rather live there than Detroit...probably why Dontrelle accepted the demotion :redneck

DSpivack
06-10-2008, 04:23 PM
I just read through this one, and the statements made are astounding for even this board. :o:!

Even Cabrera already has swallowed up a couple pizzas since he signed that mega-deal.

Miller has shown flashes of brilliance in Fla, and Maybin still needs time, but he'll be up soon.

You just don't know anymore.

Willis was a question mark at the time, as he really struggled last season. His downward spiral has not surprised me.

What surprised me is how poor Cabrera has been. The last few years he had come pretty close to being the best hitter in the NL, next to Pujols (and even then put up very similar numbers).

Foulke You
06-10-2008, 04:34 PM
I'll wait to see if Willis can get back on track because I trust Dombrowski's judgement of talent .

The contract extension otoh was not necessary, that left me scratching my head.:scratch:
Yeah, picking up Willis was required to anyone who wanted Cabrera. Apparently, it was the addition of Willis to the deal that soured the Sox organization on making the trade. They felt that Willis had declined considerably, especially his velocity. It was crazy of Detroit to give him a 3 year extension after having never pitched in the AL and coming off a down year in Florida.

Still, I really don't think Willis is THIS bad. When I saw him play the Sox earlier this year, he couldn't find home plate with a road map and after his last outing, it sounds like he still can't. There is definitely a major flaw that has developed in his delivery. It wouldn't surprise me if a good pitching coach can correct the flaw however, I still only see Willis as being a future 5th type starter in the AL.

turners56
06-10-2008, 04:38 PM
Why did he get optioned to single A? Why not AA or AAA? That's my question.

kittle42
06-10-2008, 04:38 PM
There is definitely a major flaw that has developed in his delivery. It wouldn't surprise me if a good pitching coach can correct the flaw however, I still only see Willis as being a future 5th type starter in the AL.

If Big K can find the flaw in the Midnight Rockers, he can surely find Willis' flaw. Dontrelle needs to listen to the Big K.

BadBobbyJenks
06-10-2008, 05:00 PM
Quite the cautionary tale for anyone ready to anoint John Danks and Gavin Floyd as sure-fire successes for years to come. Pitching is damn hard, and sometimes even guys who were really good at it stop being good at it.

I can understand why Detroit picked him up in the trade, but that extension was just goofy.

I am not sure this a good comparison. A lot of the Dtrain's success was based on his unusual delivery.

VivaOzzie
06-10-2008, 05:29 PM
I bet my friend (a Tigers fan) that Andrew Miller would have a better ERA than Willis. The only stipulation - that they make at least 15 starts. Doesn't look like that's going to happen. :angry:

Hokiesox
06-10-2008, 05:34 PM
Does he still get paid his 29 mil/3 years salary in A ball?

Daver
06-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Does he still get paid his 29 mil/3 years salary in A ball?

Baseball contracts are guaranteed.

munchman33
06-10-2008, 05:37 PM
That is just crazy to think that people were predicting Cy Youngs for him back in 2003! :o:


He'd have one already if it wasn't for Juice Clemens

whitesoxfan
06-10-2008, 05:41 PM
Why did he get optioned to single A? Why not AA or AAA? That's my question.

Probably because the Tigers think that it's a mental thing with him. So let him get his confidence up, pitch inside to hitters that he should be able to dominate, and work his way back up the ranks.

gobears1987
06-10-2008, 05:44 PM
There's some EPIC buffoonery in this thread: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95317&highlight=miguel

Just another proud moment for our resident arm chair GMs.

The Kenny hate last December was so bad that I asked the mods to ban me for a weekend so that I wouldn't have the read the ****.

Daver
06-10-2008, 05:50 PM
Why did he get optioned to single A? Why not AA or AAA? That's my question.

I don't know a ton about the Tigers minor league coaches, but it may be that they feel the pitching coach they have there is the best person to work with him.

Oblong
06-10-2008, 05:52 PM
Why did he get optioned to single A? Why not AA or AAA? That's my question.

This is more for instruction and working out mechanics/mental issues. Dombrowski said he accepted the option with a spirit of optimism and a willingness to fix the problem. I was at the game last night and it was spooky. I give the guy credit for doing it. He could have refused. And to show objectivity, the day after the trade was made I called him garbage (http://www.motownsports.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1300507&postcount=57).

I'm just glad the team recognized this. Leyland can be pretty damn stubborn.

chaerulez
06-10-2008, 06:16 PM
Six runs on six hits six walks and six hit batsmen.

Is that from the movie, I've never seen, because Willis had 8 runs and 5 walks.

PKalltheway
06-10-2008, 06:17 PM
Hopefully in Willis' case, he doesn't turn into another Steve Blass. Here's to hoping that he can get it back together again (except against the Sox).

Geez, this whole season for the Tigers has been an absolute train wreck, and that's putting it lightly.

Huisj
06-10-2008, 10:37 PM
Hopefully in Willis' case, he doesn't turn into another Steve Blass. Here's to hoping that he can get it back together again (except against the Sox).

Geez, this whole season for the Tigers has been an absolute train wreck, and that's putting it lightly.

Or even Rick Ankiel. It's a little different than Ankiel because the collapse wasn't as immediate and drastic like Ankiel's wildness that first showed in the playoffs, but they way they just can't find anything close to the strikezone and the mechanics are screwed up does make it a little similar.

What's also similar is that Willis has a reputation as a good hitter and good athlete. Could he one day be a first baseman or outfielder?

WhiteSox5187
06-10-2008, 11:33 PM
I think they sent him to A ball because they believe his problems right now are simply mechanical. I'm not so sure it's that simple. It's too bad because I enjoyed watch him pitch when he was in Florida and he seemed to generally have fun out there. I hope he finds his stuff and does well against everyone except the Sox.

thomas35forever
06-10-2008, 11:58 PM
Class A is one hell of a dive. Whoever heard a of a major leaguer going that far down for non-rehab reasons other than Clemens? Yeah, he did look like Rick Vaughn out there yesterday. It also does go to show what a waste a money he has turned out to be.

soltrain21
06-11-2008, 12:10 AM
I think they sent him to A ball because they believe his problems right now are simply mechanical. I'm not so sure it's that simple. It's too bad because I enjoyed watch him pitch when he was in Florida and he seemed to generally have fun out there. I hope he finds his stuff and does well against everyone except the Sox.


I've never understood this statement. I'd prefer to see him never win a game again as opposed to him winning about 20. The more he sucks the more the Tigers suck, and that was good for us the last time I checked.

doublem23
06-11-2008, 07:16 AM
I don't know a ton about the Tigers minor league coaches, but it may be that they feel the pitching coach they have there is the best person to work with him.

Lakeland is also where the Tigers have Spring Training, so I bet that's their nicest facility.

Oblong
06-11-2008, 07:42 AM
Yes, that's the key. Lakeland is the "home" for the minor leagues and there's a ton of facilities there for what he needs. Don't read into anything about the A vs. AA or AAA. Erie and Toledo are busy trying to win.


Besides would you rather be in Toledo or Florida? Florida.

soxpride724
06-11-2008, 08:04 AM
29m well spent Detroit:rolleyes:

FedEx227
06-11-2008, 10:02 AM
Class A is one hell of a dive. Whoever heard a of a major leaguer going that far down for non-rehab reasons other than Clemens? Yeah, he did look like Rick Vaughn out there yesterday. It also does go to show what a waste a money he has turned out to be.

I know Kei Igawa of the Yankees got sent to Single A Tampa about 2-3 years ago.

A lot like Daver said, in Single A he's probably getting the best coaching/teaching. AA and AAA managers and coaches are baby sitters pretty much... Willis doesn't need a slap of the ass "stay within yourself", he needs to be treated like a new signee, a kid out of high school to sort out his mechanical problems.

TomBradley72
06-11-2008, 10:08 AM
They should make him into a left fielder (half-teal), but not before firing Dombrowski and the whole crew of clowns responsible for the Cabrera/Willis and Renteria trades.

I can't question the trades as much as the extensions for Cabrera and Willis. Why not wait until they at least prove they can be productive before committing to such long term deals? If they just waited to the All Star break the Tigers could have avoided a real mess they'll have to live with for years.

What a shame. :cool:

FedEx227
06-11-2008, 10:11 AM
I can't question the trades as much as the extensions for Cabrera and Willis. Why not wait until they at least prove they can be productive before committing to such long term deals? If they just waited to the All Star break the Tigers could have avoided a real mess they'll have to live with for years.

What a shame. :cool:

The Cabrera deal makes sense... he's still a good player.

Never understood giving a guy coming off a god-awful year in which his ERA was in the 5s... a 3 year deal.

Frontman
06-11-2008, 10:30 AM
Wow. I don't get the move all the way down to single A ball, as he does have talent. Unless that was a way to keep him from waivers? I dunno.

doublem23
06-11-2008, 10:45 AM
Wow. I don't get the move all the way down to single A ball, as he does have talent. Unless that was a way to keep him from waivers? I dunno.

I think the minor league hierarchy is pretty meaningless when you're talking about guys with proven MLB talent/results working on their game. Willis isn't a 20-year-old kid who hasn't proven himself.

As our resident Tiger fan Oblong pointed out, the best place for him right now is Lakeland as they have the best minor league facilities in their system. Plus, I don't think Detroit wants Willis taking work away from their other prospects in AA and AAA.

palehozenychicty
06-11-2008, 03:47 PM
Willis was a question mark at the time, as he really struggled last season. His downward spiral has not surprised me.

What surprised me is how poor Cabrera has been. The last few years he had come pretty close to being the best hitter in the NL, next to Pujols (and even then put up very similar numbers).

I'm hardly surprised either, as he moved from a presumably weaker league with inflated numbers to the AL.

Cabrera may just be baseball's version of Rasheed Wallace. A guy who's so immensely gifted but isn't willing to put in the consistent work to be a Hof Famer.

jabrch
06-11-2008, 04:07 PM
When Detroit made the deal, I posted something to the point that I'd have loved to have Miguel Cabrerra, but I had strong reservations about taking on Willis.

TomBradley72
06-11-2008, 04:25 PM
The Cabrera deal makes sense... he's still a good player.

But within 6 weeks...he can no longer play 3rd base...he doesn't keep himself in shape, etc...I wouldn't want him for the 7 (?) years they locked him in.

102605
06-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Maybe they should put Willis in RF at class A. If I remember correctly he is very good with the bat.

Look at Ankiel! :D:

BadBobbyJenks
06-11-2008, 05:09 PM
But within 6 weeks...he can no longer play 3rd base...he doesn't keep himself in shape, etc...I wouldn't want him for the 7 (?) years they locked him in.

Ozzie would have kicked his ass.

FedEx227
06-11-2008, 11:59 PM
But within 6 weeks...he can no longer play 3rd base...he doesn't keep himself in shape, etc...I wouldn't want him for the 7 (?) years they locked him in.

He's absolutely a career 1B/DH. No doubt. He never COULD play 3B, he was awful there and LF even before he got fat.

gobears1987
06-12-2008, 12:43 AM
He's absolutely a career 1B/DH. No doubt. He never COULD play 3B, he was awful there and LF even before he got fat.
The end point is that he doesn't take care of his body. He will likely have injury issues down the road if he keeps on his current path.