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voodoochile
06-07-2008, 09:23 AM
IIRC, there is a stat that no team has ever come back to win their division after being 10 games back or 10 games under .500. I can't recall which. Well, Detroit is 10 games back and 12 games under...

I'm sure someone will correct me since I'm probably nuts...:tongue:

doublem23
06-07-2008, 09:43 AM
Someone commented on ESPN that the Tigers are the Rangers of the AL Central. Bingo.

Tragg
06-07-2008, 10:16 AM
You could see they were done in the first week....not the record, but the way they played. They need some energy. You could see the same thing with us last year in the first week.
They've been tracking us, minus 1 year (and not as good) for the past 3 seasons. Our 05 was their 06, but theirs not as good; same with our 06 and their 07 and now our 07 and their 08.

whitesox901
06-07-2008, 10:40 AM
So are we ready to call em dead?
time of death: 11:40 am EST / 10:40 am CT

TDog
06-07-2008, 11:32 AM
...
They've been tracking us, minus 1 year (and not as good) for the past 3 seasons. Our 05 was their 06, but theirs not as good; same with our 06 and their 07 and now our 07 and their 08.

It's interesting that you make that point because the Tigers seem a poor relation of the White Sox over that period. In 2006, the Tigers did collapse to lose the division lead where the White Sox put their second-place rival away at the end. When the Tigers got to the World Series anyway, they lost. In 2007, the Tigers seemed strong, though falling short of the 90 wins the White Sox got in 2006, and really didn't come close to making the postseason. This year for the Tigers, as last year was for the Sox, could best be described as dismal.

The difference is that after the Tigers went to the World Series, despite what pre-wild card baseball would have been remembered as a historic collapse, people around the country believed it was just the start of a great run. The national media wasn't picking the post-2005 White Sox to do much of anything.

It wasn't just the national media who thought the Tigers were something special. A lot of people here thought Miguel Cabrera was a bargain (although he may have better seasons left in his contract) and that locking up Curtis Granderson guaranteed the Tigers would be winners for years to come.

The slow start was blamed on the Granderson injury, of course, and he did get off to a fast start when he returned to the lineup. But after hitting .375 with three home runs in the last week of April, his average has dropped to .238. His on-base percentage, as a leadoff hitter, is .297. He has seven home runs. I wonder if Tigers fans complain about their leadoff hitter swinging for the fences. As the Sox leadoff hitter, Orlando Cabrera is hitting .282 and many at WSI consider him worthless.

palehozenychicty
06-07-2008, 11:35 AM
Cabrera, according to reports, has also regressed in his conditioning since signing that mammoth deal. Detroit is just about done. If they had any semblance of a pitching staff, I wouldn't count them out. But they don't.

DSpivack
06-07-2008, 11:36 AM
You could see they were done in the first week....not the record, but the way they played. They need some energy. You could see the same thing with us last year in the first week.
They've been tracking us, minus 1 year (and not as good) for the past 3 seasons. Our 05 was their 06, but theirs not as good; same with our 06 and their 07 and now our 07 and their 08.

So what happens next year when our 08 is their 09? :tongue:

turners56
06-07-2008, 11:41 AM
It's still a bit early to count them out (if they're still this bad by July, then it might be time to say they are done), but with their pitching, they'd need some actual magic to turn it around. The offense has guys with a bunch of talent, but most of it is old or lazy. If Jim Leyland can't get his club to play with a bit of energy, I don't know who can possibly get them to do it.

turners56
06-07-2008, 11:42 AM
So what happens next year when our 08 is their 09? :tongue:

According to him, they'll get amazing pitching, but have big hitters under perform for the first 2 months.

cws05champ
06-07-2008, 11:46 AM
The difference is that after the Tigers went to the World Series, despite what pre-wild card baseball would have been remembered as a historic collapse, people around the country believed it was just the start of a great run. The national media wasn't picking the post-2005 White Sox to do much of anything.

It wasn't just the national media who thought the Tigers were something special. A lot of people here thought Miguel Cabrera was a bargain (although he may have better seasons left in his contract) and that locking up Curtis Granderson guaranteed the Tigers would be winners for years to come.

I beleive many/most national media people were picking the White Sox to at least go back to the World Series. They had the best team in the league in 05 and added Thome and Vazquez. Not many were picking against them.

I have seen the Tigers trend following our since that 2006 season, it's pretty amazing. We should watch out next year then, their pitching may lead the league in ERA.

Corlose 15
06-07-2008, 12:27 PM
IIRC, there is a stat that no team has ever come back to win their division after being 10 games back or 10 games under .500. I can't recall which. Well, Detroit is 10 games back and 12 games under...

I'm sure someone will correct me since I'm probably nuts...:tongue:

Weren't the Twins 10 games out in 2006 and they ended up winning the division?

I don't think the Tigers have anything resembling Johan Santana and a 2006 Liriano though.:redneck

voodoochile
06-07-2008, 12:39 PM
Weren't the Twins 10 games out in 2006 and they ended up winning the division?

I don't think the Tigers have anything resembling Johan Santana and a 2006 Liriano though.:redneck

Like I said, I can't remember which it is and yes, I thought the run might have been recently broken so maybe that's it.

I am sure someone (Lip?) will know the stat I am talking about and answer eventually. At least I hope so...

TDog
06-07-2008, 01:14 PM
So what happens next year when our 08 is their 09? :tongue:

The Tigers will have to make some smart moves to rebuild as the Sox did, establishing solid pitching and bringing in young blood to bring excitement back to the team. The Sox brought in Floyd and Danks in '07, though, and I don't know if the Tigers have done anything similar to that this year.

It isn't like there is some curse on the teams. The Sox aren't about curses anyway. It's just a strange coincidence. Like how the Sox should have won the World Series in '83 and the Tigers did in '84.

Corlose 15
06-07-2008, 01:18 PM
This won't help the Tigers' chances.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080607&content_id=2861179&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

itsnotrequired
06-07-2008, 01:31 PM
Like I said, I can't remember which it is and yes, I thought the run might have been recently broken so maybe that's it.

I am sure someone (Lip?) will know the stat I am talking about and answer eventually. At least I hope so...

The 2006 Twins were as far back as 12.5 games in 2006 but were never more than 8 games under .500.

DSpivack
06-07-2008, 01:40 PM
The 2006 Twins were as far back as 12.5 games in 2006 but were never more than 8 games under .500.

Is there any other in which they'd play? :tongue:

oeo
06-07-2008, 01:47 PM
Where oh where have all the Tigers' fans gone? Back to where they were pre-2006?

voodoochile
06-07-2008, 02:18 PM
Where oh where have all the Tigers' fans gone? Back to where they were pre-2006?

They're all talking to lawyers trying to get a class action suit going to recover their season ticket money...:tongue:

DeadMoney
06-07-2008, 03:07 PM
8-8 against the AL East
10-8 against the AL West
1-2 against the NL

5-18 against the AL Central

At this point, that number above hurts a lot more than being 10 games back or 12 games under (even though that's how they got there). I mean, how do you turn THAT around. They've lost over 70% of their games inside the division!

It's funny to me ... very funny. And the news of Bonderman going out makes it even worse. Now, it appears they have a somewhat aging offense, a weak starting staff, a weak bullpen (although Rodney and Zumaya are coming back soon), and a depleted minor league system (due to the Cabrera/Willis trade). Very strange considering people were picking them to be the best team ever ('27 Yankees, '01 Mariners like).

I mean, NO ONE saw this coming, but sometimes baseball is a very fickle sport ... and I love it!
:smile:

EDIT: Before anyone takes it the wrong way ... they're on-field problems are what's funny to me. The Bonderman thing is not funny, and that really sucks for both them and him ... I actually feel bad for Bonderman and the Tigers about this.

Tragg
06-07-2008, 05:51 PM
So what happens next year when our 08 is their 09? :tongue:
Next year they're going retro....They're going to start emultating the Sox teams of the late 80s....

cws05champ
06-07-2008, 05:55 PM
8-8 against the AL East
10-8 against the AL West
1-2 against the NL

5-18 against the AL Central

At this point, that number above hurts a lot more than being 10 games back or 12 games under (even though that's how they got there). I mean, how do you turn THAT around. They've lost over 70% of their games inside the division!

It's funny to me ... very funny. And the news of Bonderman going out makes it even worse. Now, it appears they have a somewhat aging offense, a weak starting staff, a weak bullpen (although Rodney and Zumaya are coming back soon), and a depleted minor league system (due to the Cabrera/Willis trade). Very strange considering people were picking them to be the best team ever ('27 Yankees, '01 Mariners like).

I mean, NO ONE saw this coming, but sometimes baseball is a very fickle sport ... and I love it!
:smile:

EDIT: Before anyone takes it the wrong way ... they're on-field problems are what's funny to me. The Bonderman thing is not funny, and that really sucks for both them and him ... I actually feel bad for Bonderman and the Tigers about this.

:KW
"cough cough...uh, I remember saying something on this? Oh yeah, the Miguel Cabrera deal only puts the Tigers in a better position to compete with us".
You may bow at my feet now....

chisoxfanatic
06-07-2008, 05:58 PM
Well, they just beat Cleveland today after a big comeback! Good for them. As Sox fans, we should want Cleveland to be knocked a little further back at this moment.

Next week, we face both Robertson and Verlander, with our two aces taking them on!

FloridaTigers
06-07-2008, 06:49 PM
Well, they just beat Cleveland today after a big comeback! Good for them. As Sox fans, we should want Cleveland to be knocked a little further back at this moment.

Next week, we face both Robertson and Verlander, with our two aces taking them on!

Well, Robertson is far from being an ace...

Chilli Palmer
06-07-2008, 06:55 PM
Sucks period.

Daver
06-07-2008, 07:02 PM
How long before Miguel Cabrera eats himself out of baseball?

whitesox901
06-07-2008, 07:19 PM
this makes attending thursdays game all the better!

sox1970
06-07-2008, 07:21 PM
How long before Miguel Cabrera eats himself out of baseball?

That's just sad if he does. All that talent and all that money, he owes it to everyone to get in shape and stay in shape.

chisoxfanatic
06-07-2008, 07:27 PM
Well, Robertson is far from being an ace...

I didn't say he was an ace, but mentioned that you'll be facing OUR two aces.

PKalltheway
06-07-2008, 08:06 PM
IIRC, there is a stat that no team has ever come back to win their division after being 10 games back or 10 games under .500. I can't recall which. Well, Detroit is 10 games back and 12 games under...

I'm sure someone will correct me since I'm probably nuts...:tongue:
Not too sure about the 10 games under .500 stat, but here are the teams in the divisional era that have come back from being 10 games behind to win the division:
2006 Twins: 12.5 games back on May 27th (22-26 at the time)
2002 A's: 10 games back on May 30th (24-28 at the time)
1995 Mariners: 13 games back on August 2nd (43-46)
1987 Tigers: 11 games back on May 5th (9-16)
1979 Reds: 10.5 games back on July 4th (41-41)
1978 Yankees: 14 games back on July 19th (48-42)
1969 Mets: 10 games back on August 13th (62-51)

I'm sure someone else will fill in the gaps if I left any...it should be noted that none of these teams were 10 games under .500...even though it's a long season, I really believe that the Tigers have dug themselves too big of a hole to get out of. I think that even if their hitting rebounds, their bullpen will keep them from seeing any sort of real contention.

turners56
06-07-2008, 09:11 PM
No team in there is as bad as the Tigers are right now though.

voodoochile
06-07-2008, 09:20 PM
Not too sure about the 10 games under .500 stat, but here are the teams in the divisional era that have come back from being 10 games behind to win the division:
2006 Twins: 12.5 games back on May 27th (22-26 at the time)
2002 A's: 10 games back on May 30th (24-28 at the time)
1995 Mariners: 13 games back on August 2nd (43-46)
1987 Tigers: 11 games back on May 5th (9-16)
1979 Reds: 10.5 games back on July 4th (41-41)
1978 Yankees: 14 games back on July 19th (48-42)
1969 Mets: 10 games back on August 13th (62-51)

I'm sure someone else will fill in the gaps if I left any...it should be noted that none of these teams were 10 games under .500...even though it's a long season, I really believe that the Tigers have dug themselves too big of a hole to get out of. I think that even if their hitting rebounds, their bullpen will keep them from seeing any sort of real contention.

Thanks. I do remember this being posted a few years ago, so it must be the other. And that makes more sense.

jabrch
06-07-2008, 10:09 PM
The best part about this is the $ they are now stuck invested in some pretty risky/bad contracts players.

$14mm in 2009 to Sheff - it's not too risky - like Andruw Jones - because it is only one more year - but it is $14mm essentially down the crapper.

8 years and over $150mm to Miguel Cabrera - now we aren't expecting him to be a bust - but for that money he is expected to be a beast. So far, he's been horrendously mediocre.

Another $25mm over 2 years to Bonderman - that's a lot of $ for a #4.

Another $22mm over 2 years to Dontrelle - that's a lot of $ for a #5.

Another $17mm over 2 years to Nate Robertson - that's a lot of money for a 2nd #5.

Another $12mm over 2 years to Inge. (and people complain about Uribe?)

Add to that the fact that Verlander and Zumaya will be arbitration eligible this offseason and that they traded the best of their farm this year to Florida and Atlanta...

Muuaaahahahahahahahaa

Scottiehaswheels
06-07-2008, 10:14 PM
Another $12mm over 2 years to Inge. (and people complain about Uribe?)

I'd take Inge over Uribe in a heartbeat, with the higher price tag.

Tragg
06-07-2008, 10:16 PM
Not too sure about the 10 games under .500 stat, but here are the teams in the divisional era that have come back from being 10 games behind to win the division:
2006 Twins: 12.5 games back on May 27th (22-26 at the time).
And the Twins looked hopelessly overmatched too at the time. And Cleveland in 2005 was under .500 around that time and they gave it a good run. The Tribe very well may make a strong run this year...I just don't think Detroit will.
I think the Renteria trade was really misguided. The price of a SS like Renteria is always higher than their value...better off just taking Uribe and accepting SS as an offensive hole. As it is, Atlanta traded a top prosepct for him, used him a couple of years, and then got a top prospect for him...not bad.

jabrch
06-07-2008, 10:19 PM
I'd take Inge over Uribe in a heartbeat, with the higher price tag.

You'd take 2 years and 12mm tied to Inge over 1 year and 4mm to Uribe? Seriously?

Inge is hitting .224/.317/.424

Scottiehaswheels
06-07-2008, 10:28 PM
You'd take 2 years and 12mm tied to Inge over 1 year and 4mm to Uribe? Seriously?

Inge is hitting .224/.317/.424I prefer his versatility to Uribe and I know Inge won't half-ass anything.

jabrch
06-07-2008, 10:30 PM
I prefer his versatility to Uribe and I know Inge won't half-ass anything.

I'm glad we will be free of Uribe's deal next year. I think the Tigers will be unhappy to still be stuck with Inge. To me, playing 3 spots, but hitting poorly, is only slightly more valuable than hitting poorly in 2 spots.

cws05champ
06-07-2008, 10:33 PM
You'd take 2 years and 12mm tied to Inge over 1 year and 4mm to Uribe? Seriously?

Inge is hitting .224/.317/.424
I think Inge will be traded this year...even if the Tigers have to pick up a bit of the salary. He plays 3B well, plays OF and C and can be productive if given AB's. Maybe to a team like the Cards if they stay in contention.

jabrch
06-07-2008, 10:43 PM
I think Inge will be traded this year...even if the Tigers have to pick up a bit of the salary. He plays 3B well, plays OF and C and can be productive if given AB's. Maybe to a team like the Cards if they stay in contention.

I'm glad we won't have to pick up much of Juan's salary this offseason. It's unfortunate that the OC deal didn't happen a few days earlier - the 4mm would have been useful for....churros.

In any case - the Tigers are hosed - unless Illitch has another $150mm or so he wants to pour into the team.

Tragg
06-07-2008, 11:39 PM
I'm glad we won't have to pick up much of Juan's salary this offseason. It's unfortunate that the OC deal didn't happen a few days earlier - the 4mm would have been useful for....churros.


Next year we'll save, what, $12 million, with neither Cabrera nor Uribe? That money should come to good use in other areas.

Evman5
06-08-2008, 08:09 AM
How long before Miguel Cabrera eats himself out of baseball?


Not until atleast 2015. Unless of course he eats his contract.

Vernam
06-08-2008, 09:02 AM
5-18 against the AL CentralOne thing that pisses me off is when reporters say the Sox are in first place because their division turned out to be surprisingly weak. There's obviously some truth in it, but we're 5-1 against the Tigers and 6-3 against the Indians (not to mention 5-3 against the Twins). If you reverse those numbers, the division race is considerably tighter. IOW, our divisional competition is weak partly because we keep kicking Detroit's and Cleveland's sorry, over-rated asses.

Vernam

jabrch
06-08-2008, 10:59 AM
we keep kicking Detroit's and Cleveland's sorry, over-rated asses.

Winning our division games will go a long way to building up a lead come this fall.

Whitesox029
06-08-2008, 11:18 AM
I didn't say he was an ace, but mentioned that you'll be facing OUR two aces.
Which two? By my count we currently have four, and the fifth one seems to be on his way back.

ondafarm
06-08-2008, 11:19 AM
One thing that pisses me off is when reporters say the Sox are in first place because their division turned out to be surprisingly weak. There's obviously some truth in it, but we're 5-1 against the Tigers and 6-3 against the Indians (not to mention 5-3 against the Twins). If you reverse those numbers, the division race is considerably tighter. IOW, our divisional competition is weak partly because we keep kicking Detroit's and Cleveland's sorry, over-rated asses.

Vernam

I agree big V. If anything, I believe that the White Sox are still significantly underrated by most sportswriters. Several games we have squandered away if turned around, the White Sox would be right there with the Angels and Red Sox for best record in the league. I think the ALWD is the pitifully weak division. The Yankee$ are nearly .500 they'd be barely .400 if they'd not played Seattle.

TDog
06-08-2008, 11:46 AM
One thing that pisses me off is when reporters say the Sox are in first place because their division turned out to be surprisingly weak. There's obviously some truth in it, but we're 5-1 against the Tigers and 6-3 against the Indians (not to mention 5-3 against the Twins). If you reverse those numbers, the division race is considerably tighter. IOW, our divisional competition is weak partly because we keep kicking Detroit's and Cleveland's sorry, over-rated asses.

Vernam

I know it was a source of pride for Sox fans to say they played in the toughest division in baseball (especially for those who minimized the Cubs success with the assertion they played in the weakest division in baseball), but the AL Central really was only had three 90-win teams in 2006. Last season, the division had just two teams finishing above .500.

I don't know if reporters who want to demean the Sox success by labeling them them a leader of a soft division were similarly demeaning the Cubs success last year. When the Sox were "the only .500 team in the AL West" in 1983, they weren't just a .500 team. They won 99 games in a league with a balanced schedule.

One of the reasons the Sox play in a soft division this year, as I posted in February and March would be the case, is that they match up well against most of the rest of the division. The Twins play them tough year in and year out (Sox are 5-4 against them this year with nine more to play, seven in the Metrodome), but more teams in the East and West play them tougher.

Part of the Tigers slow start can be attributed to losing five of six against the White Sox. People (not surprisingly even at WSI) were saying this was the Indians division to lose and that the Indians would knock the Sox out of their slim first place, but instead the Sox swept the Indians in Chicago and took two of three in Cleveland. Friday and Saturday, the Sox surprised some people by the way they handled the Twins.

If the Sox weren't playing good-at-times-and-great-at-other-times baseball this season, they wouldn't be the only team in the AL Central only .500 this Sunday morning.

TheOldRoman
06-08-2008, 11:55 AM
One thing that pisses me off is when reporters say the Sox are in first place because their division turned out to be surprisingly weak. There's obviously some truth in it, but we're 5-1 against the Tigers and 6-3 against the Indians (not to mention 5-3 against the Twins). If you reverse those numbers, the division race is considerably tighter. IOW, our divisional competition is weak partly because we keep kicking Detroit's and Cleveland's sorry, over-rated asses.

VernamExactly. As someone posted, they are .500 against the East and 2 games over against the West. If they hadn't played any games against the Central at this point, they would be right in the thick of things. They have held their own outside of the division, but gotten absolutely steamrolled in intradivision play. Their record speaks for the ALC being good, not bad.

Law11
06-09-2008, 12:05 PM
Nobody is counted out this early. Hell, The 05 September wasn't one to right home about in case you forgot that headache.

Its good too see them and Cleveland beat up but all it takes is a bad break to even things out. And fast..

areilly
06-09-2008, 01:19 PM
I agree big V. If anything, I believe that the White Sox are still significantly underrated by most sportswriters. Several games we have squandered away if turned around, the White Sox would be right there with the Angels and Red Sox for best record in the league. I think the ALWD is the pitifully weak division. The Yankee$ are nearly .500 they'd be barely .400 if they'd not played Seattle.

My guess is that they're looking at how the Sox have done against perceived superior teams - Tampa Bay (3-4), Toronto (0-4), and LAAAAAAAA (3-4). In that context, the Sox from a distance look like a contender but not a champion, i.e. they can win but can't beat the teams they are supposed to beat to truly be the best. But it's still early, and this will be a long summer.

Iwritecode
06-09-2008, 02:14 PM
IIRC, there is a stat that no team has ever come back to win their division after being 10 games back or 10 games under .500. I can't recall which. Well, Detroit is 10 games back and 12 games under...

I'm sure someone will correct me since I'm probably nuts...:tongue:

Are you thinking of the no team has ever made the playoffs after starting out the season 0 - 7 stat?

voodoochile
06-09-2008, 02:19 PM
Are you thinking of the no team has ever made the playoffs after starting out the season 0 - 7 stat?

Nope, It was a 10 game thingy, but that works for me too...

Corlose 15
06-09-2008, 07:03 PM
For people worried about Detroit's rotation, Willis isn't doing anything to help matters.

He couldn't get out of the 2nd inning tonight.

1.1 IP 3H 8R 8ER 5BB 2Ks 2HR ERA 10.32

Its 8-0 Cleveland in the bottom of the 2nd.

The Tigers are in trouble.

thedudeabides
06-09-2008, 07:04 PM
For people worried about Detroit's rotation, Willis isn't doing anything to help matters.

He couldn't get out of the 2nd inning tonight.

1.1 IP 3H 8R 8ER 5BB 2Ks 2HR ERA 10.32

Its 8-0 Cleveland in the bottom of the 2nd.

The Tigers are in trouble.


:o:

doublem23
06-09-2008, 07:06 PM
It's too bad, since Dontrelle has always seemed like a genuinely nice guy, but he's got nothing right now.

SoxGirl4Life
06-09-2008, 07:19 PM
For people worried about Detroit's rotation, Willis isn't doing anything to help matters.

He couldn't get out of the 2nd inning tonight.

1.1 IP 3H 8R 8ER 5BB 2Ks 2HR ERA 10.32

Its 8-0 Cleveland in the bottom of the 2nd.

The Tigers are in trouble.

Damn, I was hoping we would see Dontrelle this time around.

And, if taking Dontrelle was the hitch on the Cabrera deal, man, does Kenny look genius on that too.

FedEx227
06-09-2008, 07:27 PM
I feel bad for the guy... but can someone rework his mechanics PLEASE. What is their pitching coach doing? I doubt Willis is just forgetting everything once he comes to the mound, but there comes a time when you need to stop shouting "THROW STRIKES" "STAY WITHIN YOURSELF" "DON'T AIM THE BALL" and start adjusting your mechanics.

His front side is flying open right now, all of his pitches are flying WAY outside. As much as it would have sucked for Willis I might have left him in today... basically let him know that you need to figure your stuff out today, his mechanics are not going to get better or get refined sitting on the bench, taking a trip to the DL or anything. He has to be throwing whether in the bullpen or on the mound.

For once I have to give ESPN credit, Orel was breaking Willis down perfectly and doing a good job of explaining it in simple terms and in pitching terms. Kudos to ESPN for having his services.

BadBobbyJenks
06-09-2008, 07:40 PM
For people worried about Detroit's rotation, Willis isn't doing anything to help matters.

He couldn't get out of the 2nd inning tonight.

1.1 IP 3H 8R 8ER 5BB 2Ks 2HR ERA 10.32

Its 8-0 Cleveland in the bottom of the 2nd.

The Tigers are in trouble.

Add a rain delay and using all of their pen tonight going into the series with us and we should have no problem at the very least extending this streak to 8 games with Jose on the hill tomorrow. :bandance:

MCHSoxFan
06-09-2008, 07:46 PM
Add a rain delay and using all of their pen tonight going into the series with us and we should have no problem at the very least extending this streak to 8 games with Jose on the hill tomorrow. :bandance:


I am feeling soooo damn good!!! Man, oh man!!! I'm gonna call up my rep and pay off those October Baseball ticket right now!!!
:bandance::bandance::bandance:

MCHSoxFan
06-09-2008, 07:47 PM
8-2 going into the top of the 5th inning.

MCHSoxFan
06-09-2008, 07:55 PM
So, Indians WIN? :?: Or delay?

BadBobbyJenks
06-09-2008, 07:55 PM
And there is the severe weather delay.

Tragg
06-09-2008, 08:10 PM
And there is the severe weather delay.
Doesn't mater...the Tigers were asleep all game anyway.

BadBobbyJenks
06-09-2008, 08:15 PM
Doesn't mater...the Tigers were asleep all game anyway.

I was thinking along the lines that I would not mind the game being played into the night though.

MCHSoxFan
06-09-2008, 08:15 PM
Doesn't mater...the Tigers were asleep all game anyway.

Stay asleep tomorrow, the next day, and the day after that. Then, your alarm can ring! :redneck

MCHSoxFan
06-09-2008, 08:51 PM
Game is back on.

MCHSoxFan
06-09-2008, 08:52 PM
I hope they end it in the 5th. Do you think it will? I guess it will go all 9 if they do not have more bad weather.

MCHSoxFan
06-09-2008, 08:58 PM
Game IS going past the 5th.

BadBobbyJenks
06-09-2008, 09:00 PM
I hope they end it in the 5th. Do you think it will? I guess it will go all 9 if they do not have more bad weather.


Go all 9, hell go 10, 11, 12, 18...

SoxGirl4Life
06-09-2008, 09:02 PM
The way this looks, they'll split the 4 game series. Both will be the same place they were Friday, except the Sox will have gained 2 games on both of them.

Very nice.

chisoxfanatic
06-09-2008, 09:05 PM
The way this looks, they'll split the 4 game series. Both will be the same place they were Friday, except the Sox will have gained 2 games on both of them.

Very nice.

Could this weekend have gone any better, seriously? Let's hope that we can beat the struggling Verlander for the third time this season!

Vernam
06-09-2008, 09:06 PM
And, if taking Dontrelle was the hitch on the Cabrera deal, man, does Kenny look genius on that too.Agreed. That still doesn't explain why Detroit re-signed him at $29M for three years. :?:

Vernam

SoxGirl4Life
06-09-2008, 09:07 PM
Could this weekend have gone any better, seriously? Let's hope that we can beat the struggling Verlander for the third time this season!


The monsters in Verlander's dreams must wear Sox caps.

UofCSoxFan
06-09-2008, 10:10 PM
Very long day for the Tigers bullpen. 7 and 2/3 pitched. Bautista goes 2 and 2/3 (40 pitches), Rapada goes 3 (30 pitches) and Seay goes 2 (24 pitches). While Bautista is probably the only one that won't be available tomorrow, this definitely bodes well for the Sox entering the Tigers series.

PeteWard
06-09-2008, 10:13 PM
Go all 9, hell go 10, 11, 12, 18...

A late night finish to an uninspiring rout leaves them 11 back....and there must have been like 17 fans left in the ninth inning. Plus they have to drive through Detroit to get home.

Meanwhile Jose is in the hotel and probably already in dreamland.

I like the Sox' chances tomorrow. :tongue:

soxwon
06-09-2008, 10:17 PM
detroit is toast, clevelands giving up, minnesota is shell shocked.
its ours to runaway with, i say by 15 games.

chisoxfanatic
06-09-2008, 11:20 PM
detroit is toast, clevelands giving up, minnesota is shell shocked.
its ours to runaway with, i say by 15 games.

I truly hope if they run away with this division and aren't put into a scare like they were in 2005 (I think Cleveland's surge was a huge motivating factor in their doing so well during the playoffs that year) that they will be completely primed for the post season. There's still over 3.5 months left in this season, I know; but, I just would want them entering October on the same roll as in '05.

whitesox901
06-10-2008, 12:32 AM
Maybe I can leave Detroits game on thursday, with the witnessing of two sweeps my belt within the last 7 days

Nellie_Fox
06-10-2008, 12:50 AM
For once I have to give ESPN credit, Orel was breaking Willis down perfectly and doing a good job of explaining it in simple terms and in pitching terms. Kudos to ESPN for having his services.That was some of the best TV analysis I ever heard. Of course, I have no idea if he was right, but he sure seemed to have a good explanation of what's going on with Willis.

FedEx227
06-10-2008, 01:54 AM
That was some of the best TV analysis I ever heard. Of course, I have no idea if he was right, but he sure seemed to have a good explanation of what's going on with Willis.

Yeah... then again he got fired from Texas, but hey he definitely sold me.

Oblong
06-10-2008, 08:09 AM
I will be downright shocked if the Tigers win even one game this series. Watching Dontrelle last night was actually sad. Someone compared it to the onslaught of Alzheimer's Disease in a loved one.

If the Tigers get runners on 1st and 2nd and nobody out... don't worry. You'll get a pop up and a GIDP.

I do expect low scoring games. 4 runs ought to do it.

doublem23
06-10-2008, 08:24 AM
Watching Dontrelle last night was actually sad.

Yeah, I had to turn the Indian/Tiger game off in the 2nd inning, I couldn't watch him any more. Does anyone remember Miguel Asencio's MLB debut against the Sox a few years ago (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/KCA/KCA200204060.shtml)? He walked all 4 batters he faced on 16 straight balls. By the end, it was actually a little painful to watch.

voodoochile
06-10-2008, 10:15 AM
I truly hope if they run away with this division and aren't put into a scare like they were in 2005 (I think Cleveland's surge was a huge motivating factor in their doing so well during the playoffs that year) that they will be completely primed for the post season. There's still over 3.5 months left in this season, I know; but, I just would want them entering October on the same roll as in '05.

I agree. It's the same theory behind college teams playing a playoff series or game before the post season starts - so they get used to playing high pressure games. I think the extra tough run to clinch the division acted in our favor. When push came to shove in the playoffs, the Sox did whatever it took to win the game they were in. That doesn't come naturally, it has to be learned.

Not saying I wouldn't prefer to lock up the division in early September this year, but sometimes having a belly full of want to can really help.

Tragg
06-10-2008, 10:18 AM
I truly hope if they run away with this division and aren't put into a scare like they were in 2005 (I think Cleveland's surge was a huge motivating factor in their doing so well during the playoffs that year) .
I think it was a huge confidence factor. The pressure in NOT being the team that coughed up the largest lead in ML history was far greater than the pressure to win the WS. The media was on that "choking" motif constantly (even though it was more a factor of Cleveland surging than the sox choking). The Sox withstood the toughest pressure situation that there could possibly be and the pressure in the playoffs was nothing close too that.

jabrch
06-10-2008, 10:19 AM
but sometimes having a belly full of want to can really help.

Other times, it is important to have a belly full of Churros.

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2008, 05:22 PM
Nope, It was a 10 game thingy, but that works for me too...

'73 Mets (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/1973_sched.shtml) were 13 games under .500 on 8/17. I haven't checked many others.

voodoochile
06-10-2008, 05:46 PM
'73 Mets (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/1973_sched.shtml) were 13 games under .500 on 8/17. I haven't checked many others.

Well, hell, I don't know. Guess I'm just having a brain fart... Nothing new there...

Maybe it's only under current division/playoff system. Oh well, either way, Tigers suck...

soxwon
06-12-2008, 07:34 PM
Detroit is still toast, despite sweeping us.

whitesox901
06-13-2008, 09:42 PM
Detroit is still toast, despite sweeping us.

fo sho

FloridaTigers
06-14-2008, 01:09 PM
Keep telling yourself that. Its just June. If it were August, sure, the Tigers would be "toast". But you know that the Tigers are lurking, and have a shot still. Very long shot, but hey, its been done before in baseball.

MarySwiss
06-14-2008, 01:42 PM
Keep telling yourself that. Its just June. If it were August, sure, the Tigers would be "toast". But you know that the Tigers are lurking, and have a shot still. Very long shot, but hey, its been done before in baseball.

I agree, sort of. But then again, I got an e-mail from a Tigers fan friend (Hi, Scott!) crowing about the sweep. Prior to the season, we made a modest AL Central wager. He took the Tigers, I got everybody else. So in my response, I offered to double, triple, quadruple, or even quintuple our bet.

No reply yet. :smile: Maybe his computer crashed. :scratch:

Huisj
06-14-2008, 09:33 PM
Keep telling yourself that. Its just June. If it were August, sure, the Tigers would be "toast". But you know that the Tigers are lurking, and have a shot still. Very long shot, but hey, its been done before in baseball.

I was actually at the game today (a good friend of mine grew up in California as a Dodgers fan and wanted to see them). The stadium suddenly felt very alive. It was packed (42000+ fans), and their offense was in full gear. The pitcher they brought up, Bonine, really didn't look so great, but the way Cabrera is starting to swing the bat seems to have woken up a lot of their lineup. They may be ready to bust out offensively the way lots of people predicted--I just still don't think they have the pitching to be successful enough the rest of the year to get back to the top.

turners56
06-14-2008, 09:35 PM
We woke up Detroit. Admit it. Now we're playing like crap.

Sockinchisox
06-14-2008, 09:54 PM
We woke up Detroit. Admit it. Now we're playing like crap.

Ya, it sure seems that way.

sox1970
06-14-2008, 10:10 PM
If anyone thinks Detroit is out of it, they're sorely mistaken.

The Sox need to keep going and get a 12-6 interleague record and go from there.

FarWestChicago
06-14-2008, 10:58 PM
Ya, it sure seems that way.Do you always worship trolls or is this a new dementia for you?

Sockinchisox
06-14-2008, 11:04 PM
Do you always worship trolls or is this a new dementia for you?

Worship? That's a little over the top.

Detroit is not out of it, if we keep playing the way we are they might catch up.

FarWestChicago
06-14-2008, 11:14 PM
Worship? That's a little over the top.No, it's not.

Sockinchisox
06-14-2008, 11:17 PM
No, it's not.

Yes it is, I was simply agreeing that we need to play better.

LoveYourSuit
06-14-2008, 11:59 PM
Do you always worship trolls or is this a new dementia for you?


Sorry West, I do agree that Detroit is not out this thing, trolling or not.

They have two very good bullpen keys coming back and their offense can be as good as anyone's. Their starting pitchg looked very good against us earlier this week, but I wouldn't use our offense as a measuring stick for other pitching staffs.

Besides, we have quite a few more games left with them the rest of the way.

chisoxfanatic
06-15-2008, 12:09 AM
Besides, we have quite a few more games left with them the rest of the way.

Those are among the most important games of the season from here on out. I wouldn't think Detroit would have much of a chance of coming back in this division if they couldn't win at least 6 or 7 of those remaining games. The division truly still is ours to take.

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2008, 12:13 AM
Those are among the most important games of the season from here on out. I wouldn't think Detroit would have much of a chance of coming back in this division if they couldn't win at least 6 or 7 of those remaining games. The division truly still is ours to take.

Indeed.

If we could just cut the crap and go for the throat now in June and July, I think all us would be happy.

FarWestChicago
06-15-2008, 08:17 AM
Sorry West, I do agree that Detroit is not out this thing, trolling or not.It doesn't matter if you agree with them or not. The best way to deal with trolls is to not feed them. :smile:

FloridaTigers
06-16-2008, 12:43 AM
Posting makes me a troll? :scratch:

SoxSpeed22
06-16-2008, 01:00 AM
Posting makes me a troll? :scratch:I think it was aimed at those people who are jumping ship over this week. The Tigers are not out of this yet, it's only June.

voodoochile
06-16-2008, 08:40 AM
Posting makes me a troll? :scratch:

Sigh... the sad fact is you're less of a troll than some of the "Sox fans" who post around here.

jabrch
06-16-2008, 09:02 AM
Sigh... the sad fact is you're less of a troll than some of the "Sox fans" who post around here.


As I have said before - if you HONESTLY don't know if you are trolling, you probably aren't. But the majority of our trolls are completely aware that they are trolling. Either that - or they completely don't understand what trolling is.

jabrch
06-16-2008, 09:04 AM
I think it was aimed at those people who are jumping ship over this week. The Tigers are not out of this yet, it's only June.

Jumping ship does not make one a troll. Jumping ship on a first place team makes you weak, fair weathered and bandwaggony. TROLLING is what makes one a troll.

Oblong
06-16-2008, 10:22 PM
NOt trying to troll and it doesn't really deserve it's own thread but should be of interest to baseball fans.

Marcus Thames has 2 HR tonight, both off Lincecum. His last 7 hits, covering just over 7 days have all been HR's. I don't know if that's close to a record or not.

TDog
06-16-2008, 10:27 PM
Of course the Tigers are not out of the race. If the White Sox had the Tigers record, they would not be out of the race.

If the Tigers were the White Sox, things would be ugly, at WSI, however. Marcus Thames, who some called a "nobody" after he homered against Vazquez last week, has two homers off of Lincecum in his first two at bats tonight. The Giants announcers said he is working on a streak where his last seven hits have been home runs. That isn't seven consecutive home runs, but I don't know how many strike outs, foul outs ground outs etc. he has during that streak.

I wonder if Tigers fans are complaining that he shouldn't be swinging for the fences. Maybe not, considering at this point Thames has driven in the Tigers' only runs.

jabrch
06-16-2008, 11:08 PM
Of course the Tigers are not out of the race. If the White Sox had the Tigers record, they would not be out of the race.

If the Tigers were the White Sox, things would be ugly, at WSI, however. Marcus Thames, who some called a "nobody" after he homered against Vazquez last week, has two homers off of Lincecum in his first two at bats tonight. The Giants announcers said he is working on a streak where his last seven hits have been home runs. That isn't seven consecutive home runs, but I don't know how many strike outs, foul outs ground outs etc. he has during that streak.

I wonder if Tigers fans are complaining that he shouldn't be swinging for the fences. Maybe not, considering at this point Thames has driven in the Tigers' only runs.


Nice post...sad - but nice.

sox1970
06-16-2008, 11:31 PM
Welcome back, Fernando Rodney!

CHISOXFAN13
06-16-2008, 11:31 PM
Where are Oblong and FloridaTigers to report that Rodney served up a three-run homer to his first batter?

6-4 San Fran in the 8th.

LOL.

thomas35forever
06-16-2008, 11:33 PM
Welcome back, Fernando Rodney!
Amen. In the words of the All-American Rejects, it ends tonight.:cool:

Oblong
06-16-2008, 11:37 PM
Where are Oblong and FloridaTigers to report that Rodney served up a three-run homer to his first batter?

6-4 San Fran in the 8th.

LOL.

I was coming here to post that.

Leyland said he didn't want to use him in a pressure situation for his first game. First and second, 1 run lead in the 8th on the road and all...
:bandance:

CHISOXFAN13
06-16-2008, 11:40 PM
I was coming here to post that.

Leyland said he didn't want to use him in a pressure situation for his first game. First and second, 1 run lead in the 8th on the road and all...
:bandance:

I was just giving you a hard time. You are a straight shooter and good poster.

But I'm certainly enjoying this inning... :)

TDog
06-16-2008, 11:53 PM
The best thing about watching this game (aside from the possible outcome -- Brian Roberts has the tying run to the plate in the ninth) is the announcing. The Giants got absolutely screwed on a play at the plate where Rodriguez should have been called out. The announcers showed the replays, lamented the call that gave the Tigers a 4-3 lead, but they didn't whine about it thereafter.

The Immigrant
06-17-2008, 01:52 AM
The announcers showed the replays, lamented the call that gave the Tigers a 4-3 lead, but they didn't whine about it thereafter.

:hawk

"Your what hurts?"



:wink:

whitesox901
06-17-2008, 04:23 PM
I'm still not sold on Detroit, so they had a good week, not penciled them out yet, but not saying there in contention yet

PeteWard
06-18-2008, 04:30 AM
I'm still not sold on Detroit, so they had a good week, not penciled them out yet, but not saying there in contention yet

I hate to say it but I think they are in it to stay. :(:

jabrch
06-18-2008, 10:53 AM
I hate to say it but I think they are in it to stay. :(:

Over the course of time, that rotation is going to struggle to keep them in games no matter how many runs they can score. I'm not saying they are out of it - that couldn't be further from the truth. That's just not a COMPLETE baseball club even with Rodney and Zumaya back in the pen.

FloridaTigers
06-18-2008, 12:40 PM
I was coming here to post that.

Leyland said he didn't want to use him in a pressure situation for his first game. First and second, 1 run lead in the 8th on the road and all...
:bandance:

Classic Leyland. Say something and do the opposite. Not smart at all to bring in Rodney. He's let Dolsi pitch out of jams all year long, why not let him try to get out of it?

Over the course of time, that rotation is going to struggle to keep them in games no matter how many runs they can score.

When Bonderman was lost to the injury, the Tigers were 11 games out and figured "Well, this sucks, but it won't matter now..." but of course, now it looks like a huge deal. Atleast Rogers and Verlander are finally back to their old selves. Galaragga, if he keeps pitching the way he is has an outside shot at the ROY. Robertson is giving his team a chance to win everytime out. What worries me is the 5th spot in the rotation. Willis might never be the same pitcher he was with Florida. Rumor has it the Tigers are interested in Freddy Garcia...

Lip Man 1
06-18-2008, 06:37 PM
As horrific a start as they had, to me, it is unbelievable that they are only four under and six out (at the moment.)

What have they won, like 9 of 11?

I'm hoping we're not talking a run of Indians proportions circa August / September 2005.

Lip

cards press box
06-18-2008, 06:40 PM
As horrific a start as they had, to me, it is unbelievable that they are only four under and six out (at the moment.)

What have they won, like 9 of 11?

I'm hoping we're not talking a run of Indians proportions circa August / September 2005.

Lip

I don't think so. The 2005 Indians got great pitching down the stretch. So far, this Tiger pitching staff has been pretty inconsistent. With Bonderman out, Zumaya out, Rodney out until recently (and ineffective in his first game back) and Willis in the minors, I find it difficult to imagine the Tigers going on a run of 33 out 44 (or whatever the Indians did in August/September '05).

Oblong
06-18-2008, 06:50 PM
I don't think so. The 2005 Indians got great pitching down the stretch. So far, this Tiger pitching staff has been pretty inconsistent. With Bonderman out, Zumaya out, Rodney out until recently (and ineffective in his first game back) and Willis in the minors, I find it difficult to imagine the Tigers going on a run of 33 out 44 (or whatever the Indians did in August/September '05).

The team ERA over the last month is under 4. The pitchers have kept the team in many games. The offense has been inconsistent.

Kenny Rogers, last 5 starts, 5 ER in 36 IP.
Verlander, last 7 starts, 14 ER in 48 IP
Galarraga, all 11 games. 3.31 ERA

The pitching will be servicable. If the team doesn't make any noise the rest of the year it'll be due to the offense continuing to shut down.

I guess my point is if you are banking on the pitching being the reason the Tigers don't do well I think you'll be disappointed. I see the offense and the defense as being likely culprits. The pitching won't be top caliber but should be enough for a lineup like that.

EndemicSox
06-18-2008, 07:06 PM
We all knew this would eventually happen. Should be a fun summer!

cards press box
06-19-2008, 01:14 AM
The team ERA over the last month is under 4. The pitchers have kept the team in many games. The offense has been inconsistent.

Kenny Rogers, last 5 starts, 5 ER in 36 IP.
Verlander, last 7 starts, 14 ER in 48 IP
Galarraga, all 11 games. 3.31 ERA

The pitching will be servicable. If the team doesn't make any noise the rest of the year it'll be due to the offense continuing to shut down.

I guess my point is if you are banking on the pitching being the reason the Tigers don't do well I think you'll be disappointed. I see the offense and the defense as being likely culprits. The pitching won't be top caliber but should be enough for a lineup like that.

I am not surprised that Verlander is pitching closer to form. I haven't seen Gallaraga pitch, so I don't have an opinion about him. The AL hasn't adjusted to him yet; we'll see how he performs over the long run.

Kenny Rogers is 43. I have no idea what to expect from him during the remainder of this season.

Look, I never thought that the Tigers would continue to play as poorly as they did in April. I just doubt that the current state of Tiger pitching is reflective of a 90-100 win team, as many (including Sports Illustrated) initially predicted. And my original point was this: while the Tigers have been hot lately, it's a long way from two excellent weeks to the type of run that the Indians had from mid-August 2005 through the last week of September 2005.

High Mileage
06-19-2008, 01:57 AM
Any day now they'll have Freddy Garcia...

The Dude
06-19-2008, 09:34 AM
I said this last week to some fellow Sox fans and mark my words, the Tigers are going to be our major competition for the division. The Twins just won't be able to hang on and the Tigers are too talented with the bats to not compete with us.

asindc
06-19-2008, 09:45 AM
I had thought Cleveland would make a big run, but since Hafner looks like he will be done for awhile (I drafted him 4th round in my fantasy league:angry:), Detroit seems most capable. At least I picked up Galarraga for my team. He has been pitching lights out. I still don't think Rogers will hold up all season, but they should be able to bash their way to at least 85-86 wins. I think the Sox will need 92 wins to take the division.

JB98
06-20-2008, 11:21 PM
A second consecutive bad outing for Rodney tonight. San Diego has scored two in the eighth so far to take a 4-2 lead.

CHISOXFAN13
06-20-2008, 11:24 PM
Here comes Zumaya...

JB98
06-20-2008, 11:38 PM
Here comes Zumaya...

He didn't do too well either. Gave up a two-run single and walked a guy to reload the bases.

San Diego leading 6-2 right now.

CHISOXFAN13
06-20-2008, 11:39 PM
He didn't do too well either. Gave up a two-run single and walked a guy to reload the bases.

San Diego leading 6-2 right now.

They still have a lot of problems no question. Hopefully the Pads can take two of three, and the Sox can leave Wrigley with no ground gained by the Tigers.

FloridaTigers
06-21-2008, 02:16 PM
Zumaya didn't do too bad. He wasn't a total disaster as Rodney was. Zumaya got a strike out.

Leyland just can't manage a bullpen. Rodney returns, and you put him in a close game situation? Where he was wild before? No, throw him into a blowout game, whether winning or losing, or in a non pressure situation first. Let him get a feel of things. Then put him in a tight game. But after putting him in a tight game n San Fran, there were plenty of opportunities the next night to put in Rodney...but he doesn't. So he throws him back into the fire. Stupid managing. The loss is on Leyland's bullpen handling. Why does he bring out Fossum instead of Seay?

whitesox901
06-21-2008, 02:53 PM
Zumaya had the speed, just seemed like he didnt have any control, should of left him in AAA Toledo a bit longer