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Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2008, 07:42 AM
The Trib web site has a new story (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080604-greg-walker-ozzie-guillen-chicago-sox,1,2830381.story) by Mark Gonzalez about the latest from Greg Walker and Ozzie.

It would be so great to quote one paragraph, but I understand the rules that prevent us from doing so. So I'll paraphrase:

In the third paragraph from the end, Walker is quoted as saying essentially that he thinks it is his job to get the hitters to loosen up because playing at home should be an advantage, because the park fits the Sox hitting philosophy, and therefore the Sox hitters should try to continue to implement that philosophy.

Here's my question: Is that philosophy the "Swing for the Fences" philosophy?

Discuss.

jdieter
06-05-2008, 08:19 AM
Man how long does it take to loosen them up, 1 season, 2nd half 06 till now. Walker going around OG to Reinsdorf regarding his status is chicken#$%^.

So far this week Konerko, Thome, Swisher are a combined 5/26 or .192 I'm glad Ozzie bunched them in the lineup after the KC trip, it puts the pressure where it should be for Walker to keep his job, with the bats, hiding them in the order doesn't accomplish anything.

dickallen15
06-05-2008, 08:24 AM
Chicken****, my ass. Ozzie has the power to hire and fire coaches, yet he throws Walker's name out in public leaving him twisting in the wind thinking if Walker needs to go KW will fire him, and then Ozzie goes and hangs out with Freddy while Walker spends his off day at USCF working with hitters and meeting with the guy who won't talk out of both sides of his mouth to try and find out his status.

BRDSR
06-05-2008, 08:42 AM
Chicken****, my ass. Ozzie has the power to hire and fire coaches, yet he throws Walker's name out in public leaving him twisting in the wind thinking if Walker needs to go KW will fire him, and then Ozzie goes and hangs out with Freddy while Walker spends his off day at USCF working with hitters and meeting with the guy who won't talk out of both sides of his mouth to try and find out his status.

Agreed. I was unimpressed with Ozzie's mention of Walker. Not I think Walker should necessarily stay, but this is one area where Ozzie can take action instead of talk, and he didn't.

jackbrohamer
06-05-2008, 08:52 AM
Chicago media coverage of the White Sox has descended to the level of pure gossip column. A manager and a coach are having a spat? Give me a break, I thought this was baseball

eastchicagosoxfan
06-05-2008, 08:55 AM
Chicago media coverage of the White Sox has descended to the level of pure gossip column. A manager and a coach are having a spat? Give me a break, I thought this was baseball
Well played!

Frontman
06-05-2008, 08:58 AM
Chicken****, my ass. Ozzie has the power to hire and fire coaches, yet he throws Walker's name out in public leaving him twisting in the wind thinking if Walker needs to go KW will fire him, and then Ozzie goes and hangs out with Freddy while Walker spends his off day at USCF working with hitters and meeting with the guy who won't talk out of both sides of his mouth to try and find out his status.

So, can you find for me where Don Cooper went and pouted in Jerry's office after being "thrown under the bus" (I'm so sick of that phrase, but its what's been used for this situation) last season when Ozzie raged about the Bullpen and mentioned Don Cooper in a rant?

Oh, wait. Coop knows its his job to keep the pitching staff performing, and when they aren't performing he'd be held accountable. Walker needs to look at his title, "Hitting Coach," look at what his team is doing (what I'd like to call not timely hitting) and then think before going into the big boss' office and crying about his name coming up.

Greg Walker (who really doesn't do a ton of interviews in the past) better get back to that philosophy and do what everyone says Ozzie should do.

Simply, shut up and work with your players.

dickallen15
06-05-2008, 09:27 AM
So, can you find for me where Don Cooper went and pouted in Jerry's office after being "thrown under the bus" (I'm so sick of that phrase, but its what's been used for this situation) last season when Ozzie raged about the Bullpen and mentioned Don Cooper in a rant?

Oh, wait. Coop knows its his job to keep the pitching staff performing, and when they aren't performing he'd be held accountable. Walker needs to look at his title, "Hitting Coach," look at what his team is doing (what I'd like to call not timely hitting) and then think before going into the big boss' office and crying about his name coming up.

Greg Walker (who really doesn't do a ton of interviews in the past) better get back to that philosophy and do what everyone says Ozzie should do.

Simply, shut up and work with your players.
When did he ever call out Cooper? Ozzie said he believes in Walker's philosophy and his hard work. Of course too many people think a hitting coach is the reason guys like Konerko, Thome and Swisher are hitting .200 not .300. That's simply not reality.

Frontman
06-05-2008, 09:43 AM
When did he ever call out Cooper? Ozzie said he believes in Walker's philosophy and his hard work. Of course too many people think a hitting coach is the reason guys like Konerko, Thome and Swisher are hitting .200 not .300. That's simply not reality.

When did he call out Walker? He said that Kenny needs to make a change; maybe himself (Ozzie) Greg Walker (the hitting coach) or the players. I don't see where Walker was "called out" and "singled out."

dickallen15
06-05-2008, 09:49 AM
When did he call out Walker? He said that Kenny needs to make a change; maybe himself (Ozzie) Greg Walker (the hitting coach) or the players. I don't see where Walker was "called out" and "singled out."
Why is Walker chicken**** to go ask JR about his status? The one who is chicken**** is Ozzie. He has the hiring and firing power of coaches. If Walker needs to go, he doesn't need Kenny or JR's approval. Throwing his name out there was wrong. KW wasn't too happy with what Ozzie threw his way either, why is he not just out of line?

Frontman
06-05-2008, 09:56 AM
Why is Walker chicken**** to go ask JR about his status? The one who is chicken**** is Ozzie. He has the hiring and firing power of coaches. If Walker needs to go, he doesn't need Kenny or JR's approval. Throwing his name out there was wrong. KW wasn't too happy with what Ozzie threw his way either, why is he not just out of line?

Ozzie was wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right.

By what you just posted, Greg should of talked to OZZIE not Jerry. OZZIE can fire him if he wants, he doesn't need Jerry's approval.

So it was a BS "go over your supervisor's head" end-around. Then he keeps conducting interviews with the standard "No comment." response.

Greg needs to stay away from microphones if he doesn't want to answer those questions. He shouldn't of said that he went to Jerry.

Simply put, HE'S being the turd here. Ozzie has to talk to the media, the coaching staff don't. Walker CHOSE to talk, when he could of just avoided the media for the week.

TomBradley72
06-05-2008, 10:47 AM
Ozzie wasn't wrong. The hitting sucks, he's called out the coach in charge of that, it's not a new problem, it's been going on for 2 years. He mentioned himself in the same sentence. Greg Walker is making a big mistake in reacting to this in the media. If the hitting sucks, then he's at risk. That's major league baseball. If he's fired (which I don't think solves anything) does anyone think another team is going to hire him?

As a leader...Ozzie was making sure everyone understood the urgency of what's going on, something he didn't do last year soon enough. Quit pouting Greg, shut up, and deliver the results your paid to deliver.

kevin57
06-05-2008, 11:00 AM
Of course too many people think a hitting coach is the reason guys like Konerko, Thome and Swisher are hitting .200 not .300. That's simply not reality.

I plead "guilty" to this charge...or at the very least, I won't cry tears of pity if GW goes. Managers get fired all the time for underperforming teams. The criticism is always the same, "The players should be held responsible, not the managers." Why, though, do I get this feeling that many posters here would cheer Ozzie's being fired for this team's underperformance but hiss loudly anytime anyone calls out Walker?

Fine, I ask GW's backers again...since it's really Konerko, Thome, and Swisher who are not getting the job done, when will I see your threads on trading/releasing/etc. the aforementioned disappointments?

BainesHOF
06-05-2008, 11:10 AM
Chicago media coverage of the White Sox has descended to the level of pure gossip column. A manager and a coach are having a spat? Give me a break, I thought this was baseball

In general, the media is very immature. At some point, the media took a wrong turn and just kept going.

Frontman
06-05-2008, 11:14 AM
I say Ozzie was wrong in having this go public. It should of been handled in-house; even though he's interviewed a number of times each day.

dickallen15
06-05-2008, 11:22 AM
Ozzie was wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right.

By what you just posted, Greg should of talked to OZZIE not Jerry. OZZIE can fire him if he wants, he doesn't need Jerry's approval.

So it was a BS "go over your supervisor's head" end-around. Then he keeps conducting interviews with the standard "No comment." response.

Greg needs to stay away from microphones if he doesn't want to answer those questions. He shouldn't of said that he went to Jerry.

Simply put, HE'S being the turd here. Ozzie has to talk to the media, the coaching staff don't. Walker CHOSE to talk, when he could of just avoided the media for the week.
First off, Walker's comments are nothing but professional. Maybe he would have talked to Ozzie Monday, but while Greg was working at USCF, Ozzie was partying with Freddy Garcia on South Beach. Walker wanted to know his fate. So he went straight to the top. He didn't go above Ozzie pouting.

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2008, 11:29 AM
Ozzie should have been speaking with and working with Greg Walker all of the time.

If there was an issue, Ozzie should handled it with Walker well before Sunday.

It is horse-puckey for a manager/head coach to call out any of his assistants in the media. Mike Ditka was as volatile and opinionated and loud-mounted as Ozzie ever was, and often screamed at his coaches on the sidelines, but I never remember Ditka saying anything negative about any of his assistant coaches through the media.

It's also not cool for Walker to go talk to Reinsdorf. If JR and Walker are "good friends," does that mean that Ozzie really doesn't have the authority to fire Walker? Did Walker go to JR to clarify his status? If so, does that mean JR has ultimate veto power over who gets hired and fired on the coaching staff? Is loyalty so strong that incompetence is accepted?

KW is the one who put together this lineup, so he too deserves some blame.

There's enough blame to go around here. Everyone is wrong: the media, JR, KW, Ozzie, Walker and the slumping hitters.

Frontman
06-05-2008, 11:54 AM
First off, Walker's comments are nothing but professional. Maybe he would have talked to Ozzie Monday, but while Greg was working at USCF, Ozzie was partying with Freddy Garcia on South Beach. Walker wanted to know his fate. So he went straight to the top. He didn't go above Ozzie pouting.

We'll agree to disagree, but Walker wasn't professional. A professional goes to his supervisor's immediate supervisor, IE Kenny if there is that huge of an issue. Greg's name was mentioned ONCE by Ozzie. Ozzie isn't picking on him, he mentioned his name ONCE in two years of bad hitting.

Walker also could of chose to contact Ozzie himself, even to say, "We need to talk tomorrow to straighten this out" but instead, he ran to Jerry.

Ultimately, this whole mess should of remained in house. Ozzie screwed it up by going public. Kenny made it worse with his "He should mind what he says/throw me under the bus" thin-skinned routine on Monday. Walker has gone further by going on both radio stations in town, to say "No comment out of respect to Jerry Reisndorf."

Anyone else get the feeling Jerry told all 3 to settle down and do their jobs?

Lip Man 1
06-05-2008, 01:24 PM
The best line from all the stories that I read on this today was Ozzie saying "when we don't hit well for two years who should I blame, my wife?"

Can't argue with his logic. (although the players he has been given have to accept part of the blame.)

Lip

gamblinkenny
06-05-2008, 01:29 PM
i still don't understand why kenny and walker were mad to begin with. I don't think he threw either of them under the bus to begin with, but even if he did, he threw himself under there too. Before he even mentioned walkers name he said the changes, "could be me, could be greg walker..." ozzie was clearly taking responsibility, and walker should too.

also, kenny needs to CEASE AND DESIST with this, "we have the horses" BS. Clearly we do not. the sox won a world series with freakin crazy carl everett as the DH. not to say he is better than Thome, obviously, but he moved runners over and didn't strike out like a beast.

russ99
06-05-2008, 02:36 PM
Walker didn't need to say anything, it was written all over his face in the interview. I'm glad Ozzie didn't pull punches or mouth a fake apology to Greg in the press yesterday, it would have only made things worse.

The fact Walker went to the top in Reinsdorf instead of Ozzie and/or Kenny - like he should have - makes me wonder if Ozzie really does have the power to fire this specific coach...

Plus, it's a ridiculous move on Greg's part. He's supposedly a professional in a results-driven business. After last season he should expect some questioning of his work and know how to handle it, especially coming from someone as boisterous and over-the-top as Ozzie. It's not like we haven't heard any of this kind of stuff before.

Out of respect for Reinsdorf, gimme a break. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

voodoochile
06-05-2008, 02:46 PM
First off, Walker's comments are nothing but professional. Maybe he would have talked to Ozzie Monday, but while Greg was working at USCF, Ozzie was partying with Freddy Garcia on South Beach. Walker wanted to know his fate. So he went straight to the top. He didn't go above Ozzie pouting.

Do you have actual proof that Walker was putting in extra time at the ballpark on a team off day while Ozzie was partying with Freddie in Miami or did you just toss that out there to make Walker look better and make Ozzie look worse.

Pray do tell, who was the hard working, decent, honorable Walker working with on Monday while Ozzie was enjoying the beach?

Is there a link to substantiate all of these claims of the ant and the grasshopper? Is Ozzie Scrooge, getting ready to chow down on the Xmas Goose while poor Greg "Bob Pratchett" Walker has to try to get Tiny Tim to walk without the aid of crutches?

Oh the humanity...

Frankfan4life
06-05-2008, 04:32 PM
Ozzie wasn't wrong. The hitting sucks, he's called out the coach in charge of that, it's not a new problem, it's been going on for 2 years. He mentioned himself in the same sentence. Greg Walker is making a big mistake in reacting to this in the media. If the hitting sucks, then he's at risk. That's major league baseball. If he's fired (which I don't think solves anything) does anyone think another team is going to hire him?

As a leader...Ozzie was making sure everyone understood the urgency of what's going on, something he didn't do last year soon enough. Quit pouting Greg, shut up, and deliver the results your paid to deliver.Your comments are spot on. Ozzie did what he had to do to shake this team up. It was about time. Walk and the hitters needed to feel a bit uncomfortable (like the fans have been feeling lately). Obviously, Ozzie's rant has had some positive results.

dickallen15
06-05-2008, 04:47 PM
Do you have actual proof that Walker was putting in extra time at the ballpark on a team off day while Ozzie was partying with Freddie in Miami or did you just toss that out there to make Walker look better and make Ozzie look worse.

Pray do tell, who was the hard working, decent, honorable Walker working with on Monday while Ozzie was enjoying the beach?

Is there a link to substantiate all of these claims of the ant and the grasshopper? Is Ozzie Scrooge, getting ready to chow down on the Xmas Goose while poor Greg "Bob Pratchett" Walker has to try to get Tiny Tim to walk without the aid of crutches?

Oh the humanity...

Yes. On one of the channels I was watching at my health club on Monday, Walker was at USCF with a microphone in his face biting his tongue. Ozzie was quoted as saying he was with Freddy in South Beach wanting to relax but the firestorm was not letting him do it. Poor Ozzie. Guess who caused the storm?

CLR01
06-05-2008, 05:21 PM
Do you have actual proof that Walker was putting in extra time at the ballpark on a team off day while Ozzie was partying with Freddie in Miami or did you just toss that out there to make Walker look better and make Ozzie look worse.

Pray do tell, who was the hard working, decent, honorable Walker working with on Monday while Ozzie was enjoying the beach?

Is there a link to substantiate all of these claims of the ant and the grasshopper? Is Ozzie Scrooge, getting ready to chow down on the Xmas Goose while poor Greg "Bob Pratchett" Walker has to try to get Tiny Tim to walk without the aid of crutches?

Oh the humanity...


Psst....Bob Cratchit. :wink:

Frontman
06-05-2008, 05:55 PM
Yes. On one of the channels I was watching at my health club on Monday, Walker was at USCF with a microphone in his face biting his tongue. Ozzie was quoted as saying he was with Freddy in South Beach wanting to relax but the firestorm was not letting him do it. Poor Ozzie. Guess who caused the storm?

Let me guess, let me guess. Here's my top 3 choices:

Swisher
Thome
Konerko


DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

So, what prize do I win?

russ99
06-05-2008, 06:05 PM
Is Ozzie Scrooge, getting ready to chow down on the Xmas Goose while poor Greg "Bob Pratchett" Walker has to try to get Tiny Tim to walk without the aid of crutches?

Psst....Bob Cratchit. :wink:

Yeah, but it's still damn funny. Potential X-mas card material?? We should get Carl (palehose 8) on it right away. Would Tiny Tim be Paul or Jim? :D:

Frontman
06-05-2008, 06:10 PM
Well, I did do a bit of digging, and it seems that the Sox were off on Monday. So, if the Sox were off and Greg Walker was "working hard at USCF" I guess he was working by himself.

Per the Tribune.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/cs-080603-greg-walker-ozzie-guillen-white-sox,0,1589370.story

Says that he spent the day with Jerry Reisndorf and that the Sox were off on Monday.

TheOldRoman
06-05-2008, 07:39 PM
Well, I did do a bit of digging, and it seems that the Sox were off on Monday. So, if the Sox were off and Greg Walker was "working hard at USCF" I guess he was working by himself.

Per the Tribune.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/cs-080603-greg-walker-ozzie-guillen-white-sox,0,1589370.story

Says that he spent the day with Jerry Reisndorf and that the Sox were off on Monday.LIES!
Guess who caused the storm?Hmm, possibly the man who is paid a few hundred thousand dollars with his only task being to prepare guys to hit well. That same guy who has failed miserably for at least the past two years, and more likely, the huge majority of his tenure.

And, once again, Ozzie wasn't throwing Walker under the bus. He mentioned his name once. He was doing his normal "they can fire me if they want" routine, and he threw Walk's name in with his. You can't expect a coach to not get scrutinized with the way his hitters have performed.

Frontman
06-05-2008, 09:21 PM
Well, it was the Tribune reporting on the Sox, Roman. I guess there's the possibility that they lied........

:D: