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MCHSoxFan
06-01-2008, 06:44 PM
I know people hate this. However, I will say it anyway. Bring Jerry Owens up. All we have to do is just let Swisher sit out. I mean, what is the worse thing that could happen. Swisher cannot get on base anymore and he has no speed. Also, OC is really meant for the 2-spot because he feels better there. Why don't we just try it? Please do not tell me because JO can't get on base. As I said, Swish can't either so why don't we just try it?

Daver
06-01-2008, 06:49 PM
Why not leave Owens where he is and lead off with Ramirez as the second baseman, and sit Swisher for Anderson?

Madvora
06-01-2008, 06:50 PM
I figured that Ramirez at leadoff might be one of the options Guillen is thinking about.

MCHSoxFan
06-01-2008, 06:51 PM
I figured that Ramirez at leadoff might be one of the options Guillen is thinking about.

Thanks! I really did not know that. So, A-Ram in CF and Jaun @ 2B. Alright, let's do it!

kevingrt
06-01-2008, 06:53 PM
Why not leave Owens where he is and lead off with Ramirez as the second baseman, and sit Swisher for Anderson?

I kinda like the idea, however Ramirez and his inability to hit or see a good curveball kind of scares me. I will admit he is getting better at it since Opening Day but it is still scary.

I would almost rather have BA bat second with OC first.

Personally, I'm with MCH on this one. Bring up Jerry and say Swisher has "I cannot play baseball" sickness.

Daver
06-01-2008, 06:54 PM
I kinda like the idea, however Ramirez and his inability to hit or see a good curveball kind of scares me. I will admit he is getting better at it since Opening Day but it is still scary.

I would almost rather have BA bat second with OC first.

Personally, I'm with MCH on this one. Bring up Jerry and say Swisher has "I cannot play baseball" sickness.

Jerry Owens isn't very good at baseball either.

MCHSoxFan
06-01-2008, 06:55 PM
I kinda like the idea, however Ramirez and his inability to hit or see a good curveball kind of scares me. I will admit he is getting better at it since Opening Day but it is still scary.

I would almost rather have BA bat second with OC first.

Personally, I'm with MCH on this one. Bring up Jerry and say Swisher has "I cannot play baseball" sickness.

Thanks for saying this. I know people just have hate Owens. However, it is nice to see a person agree we should try it. Thanks!

MCHSoxFan
06-01-2008, 06:56 PM
Jerry Owens isn't very good at baseball either.

As I said. Just give it it a try. Jerry Owens on offense cannot be worse than Swish as of NOW.

Lillian
06-01-2008, 06:58 PM
DeWayne Wise would have been a better candidate than Owens, but he was just D.F.A'd. Pretty pathetic, in any case.

Sox
06-01-2008, 07:00 PM
How about just letting swish work his way out of his slump.......nothing more deflating to a ballplayer than a vote of no-confidence......

wealz07
06-01-2008, 07:06 PM
Why not leave Owens where he is and lead off with Ramirez as the second baseman, and sit Swisher for Anderson?

They won't win anything if Swisher doesn't hit. You have to play him. DL Konerko maybe, but you can't tell me that Anderson will hit better than Konerko over the next two weeks either.

soltrain21
06-01-2008, 07:07 PM
How about just letting swish work his way out of his slump.......nothing more deflating to a ballplayer than a vote of no-confidence......

He isn't in a slump; it is way too long to be a slump. Plus, this isn't preschool, Nick is a big boy and should be able to handle the, "You don't perform you sit" idea.

Bill Naharodny
06-01-2008, 07:13 PM
Thanks for saying this. I know people just have hate Owens. However, it is nice to see a person agree we should try it. Thanks!

I like your idea, too -- although I'm partial to Paul Konerko visiting the DL, as someone else mentioned in this thread.

And, by the way, though Owens's lack of success at AAA this year isn't a great endorsement, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him hit better up here -- same with Richar.

Daver
06-01-2008, 07:22 PM
I like your idea, too -- although I'm partial to Paul Konerko visiting the DL, as someone else mentioned in this thread.

And, by the way, though Owens's lack of success at AAA this year isn't a great endorsement, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him hit better up here -- same with Richar.


Yeah. MLB pitching isn't nearly as good as AAA pitching is.

DSpivack
06-01-2008, 07:24 PM
If Richar starts hitting well in a few weeks, any chance we see him at 2B and Alexei in CF?.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 07:55 PM
Why not leave Owens where he is and lead off with Ramirez as the second baseman, and sit Swisher for Anderson?

I like this idea.

Soxzilla
06-01-2008, 08:17 PM
Yeah. MLB pitching isn't nearly as good as AAA pitching is.

Right, because no matter what, your average goes down when you come up to the majors.

Being someone who played sports (a hockey goalie at that), I can say I certainly performed better when the spotlight was on me facing better teams/players/competition.

I've never played in the minors. I've never played in the majors. I can certainly see there being a correlation in baseball concerning my experiences, though.

God forgive that poster for suggesting something, though.

GlassSox
06-01-2008, 08:21 PM
MCH,

Good thoughts, I like the idea, why not try it. There certainly needs to be somehting done and I don't see it being any worse than what has been going on.

Glass

MCHSoxFan
06-01-2008, 08:23 PM
MCH,

Good thoughts, I like the idea, why not try it. There certainly needs to be somehting done and I don't see it being any worse than what has been going on.

Glass


Thank you! I am glad I have even more supporters than I thought there would be.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:42 PM
How will Owens or Richar help driving in runs? Speed is not the issue, the issue is failing to get the men on base to cross the dish. SO fine replace Swisher in the order with Owens or Richar how is that gonna get Thome, PK, Dye and Crede to start driving these men in?

bryPt
06-01-2008, 08:47 PM
So replace swish, okay. How do we solve the rest of the team not hitting, let Thome and PK?

This team would be 40 and 16 if they had ANY hitting.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 08:51 PM
How will Owens or Richar help driving in runs? Speed is not the issue, the issue is failing to get the men on base to cross the dish. SO fine replace Swisher in the order with Owens or Richar how is that gonna get Thome, PK, Dye and Crede to start driving these men in?

As far as Paulie, Thome, Dye, Crede and AJ are concerned, it takes two hits (or an extra base hit) to score them from second. It takes three hits/walks (or an extra base hit and a walk/hit) to score any of them from first base. Given that there really aren't any high average hitters on this team, it's going to remain hard to get these guys to score without a homer.

There were lots of times last year when Thome, Paulie and Dye all would hit consecutive singles, and then would get stranded on base. But if any of those guys could go first-to-third or second-to-home on a single, then those situations would result in runs instead of so many LOBs.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:53 PM
As far as Paulie, Thome, Dye, Crede and AJ are concerned, it takes two hits (or an extra base hit) to score them from second. It takes three hits/walks (or an extra base hit and a walk/hit) to score any of them from first base. Given that there really aren't any high average hitters on this team, it's going to remain hard to get these guys to score without a homer.

There were lots of times last year when Thome, Paulie and Dye all would hit consecutive singles, and then would get stranded on base. But if any of those guys could go first-to-third or second-to-home on a single, then those situations would result in runs instead of so many LOBs.
Ok but i'm looking today 1 and 2 get on base 1st and 3rd, we got 3-4-5 coming up and we get 3 straight pop-ups. We have seen so much of this. I just don't see where Richar or Owens helps this out.

MCHSoxFan
06-01-2008, 08:57 PM
Ok but i'm looking today 1 and 2 get on base 1st and 3rd, we got 3-4-5 coming up and we get 3 straight pop-ups. We have seen so much of this. I just don't see where Richar or Owens helps this out.


I TOTALLY 100% agree. I am just saying, why not try it if we got NOTHING to lose. If it works, GREAT! If not or it is the same result, wait a little and then put Swish back in.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 08:58 PM
Ok but i'm looking today 1 and 2 get on base 1st and 3rd, we got 3-4-5 coming up and we get 3 straight pop-ups. We have seen so much of this. I just don't see where Richar or Owens helps this out.

I don't think Owens helps either.

I think Richar could help the team once it's shown that he's healthy. He's got decent extra base power and runs the bases well. The problem is that he plays 2B, and Ramirez is acquitting himself well there right now. You could move Ramirez to SS, and I think he'd do equally well there (if not better since it's his natural position). But to do that, you have to move Cabrera, and after a slow start he's gotten hot lately.

Here's a wild idea: Maybe move Cabrera to 1B (like Carlos Guillen with Detroit) to make room for Richar and Ramirez in the middle infield?

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:01 PM
I TOTALLY 100% agree. I am just saying, why not try it if we got NOTHING to lose. If it works, GREAT! If not or it is the same result, wait a little and then put Swish back in.
I see what your saying but the problem isn't the speed and finesse guys its the power and run producers and until those guys either wake up or we by miracle acquire someone else to do it our offense will be in trouble.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:02 PM
I don't think Owens helps either.

I think Richar could help the team once it's shown that he's healthy. He's got decent extra base power and runs the bases well. The problem is that he plays 2B, and Ramirez is acquitting himself well there right now. You could move Ramirez to SS, and I think he'd do equally well there (if not better since it's his natural position). But to do that, you have to move Cabrera, and after a slow start he's gotten hot lately.

Here's a wild idea: Maybe move Cabrera to 1B (like Carlos Guillen with Detroit) to make room for Richar and Ramirez in the middle infield?
OC is just so good and rangy at SS I would hate to waste it.

wealz07
06-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Here's a wild idea: Maybe move Cabrera to 1B (like Carlos Guillen with Detroit) to make room for Richar and Ramirez in the middle infield?

Interesting. If the idea is a way to get worse I think you nailed it. This offense is designed to win games by walking and hitting homers. I suspect they'll start doing that at home this week against the Royals and Twins.

Soxzilla
06-01-2008, 10:11 PM
How will Owens or Richar help driving in runs? Speed is not the issue, the issue is failing to get the men on base to cross the dish. SO fine replace Swisher in the order with Owens or Richar how is that gonna get Thome, PK, Dye and Crede to start driving these men in?

Yeah but remember what Podsednik did for the hitters behind him? I can't imagine Owens will be any worse of a hitter than Pods was, and he's even faster. I seriously don't understand the harm.

And I propose, if you bring Owens up, you only have 1 of the 3 uglies in the lineup at one time (Swisher, Konerko, Thome). You have to figure at least one of them will heat up enough to not be a detriment to the lineup.

If they all heat up, you have more flexibility with your lineup. Owens becomes a pinch runner or an alternate or just gets sent down.

Harry Chappas
06-01-2008, 10:24 PM
Yeah but remember what Podsednik did for the hitters behind him? I can't imagine Owens will be any worse of a hitter than Pods was, and he's even faster. I seriously don't understand the harm.

And I propose, if you bring Owens up, you only have 1 of the 3 uglies in the lineup at one time (Swisher, Konerko, Thome). You have to figure at least one of them will heat up enough to not be a detriment to the lineup.

If they all heat up, you have more flexibility with your lineup. Owens becomes a pinch runner or an alternate or just gets sent down.

Didn't Owens hit .267 last year? He also stole 32 bases. This notion that he can't play worth a damn seems a little misguided. I like the idea too. Frankly, I don't care about hurting Swish's confidence. We're battling for the division so I don't think 'staying the course at all costs' is the right move.

MCHSoxFan
06-01-2008, 10:29 PM
Didn't Owens hit .267 last year? He also stole 32 bases. This notion that he can't play worth a damn seems a little misguided. I like the idea too. Frankly, I don't care about hurting Swish's confidence. We're battling for the division so I don't think 'staying the course at all costs' is the right move.

You are the man! So, it Soxzilla! :D: For real, though.

Bill Naharodny
06-01-2008, 10:50 PM
Right, because no matter what, your average goes down when you come up to the majors.

Being someone who played sports (a hockey goalie at that), I can say I certainly performed better when the spotlight was on me facing better teams/players/competition.

I've never played in the minors. I've never played in the majors. I can certainly see there being a correlation in baseball concerning my experiences, though.

God forgive that poster for suggesting something, though.

Glad you had my back here. I was actually curious how long it would take one of The Great Men to condescend to me. When one of them did, you noted that you understood my comment, and I'm grateful.

Madscout
06-01-2008, 10:57 PM
As I said. Just give it it a try. Jerry Owens on offense cannot be worse than Swish as of NOW.
Except his defense and candy ass arm can be. BA is your answer. A speedy guy, who will just about never get on base, coupled with that same guy costing your pitchers who have to be perfect in the field? No thanks. In BA, you may not get an offensive explosion, but he will hit some HRs, he will hit some doubles, and he will come through for you some times. If he gets a rhythm going, who knows... he might get hot and have some big hits. But you know he will make some great plays on D and pump his team, pitchers and hitters, to get it going.

Soxzilla
06-02-2008, 06:15 PM
Glad you had my back here. I was actually curious how long it would take one of The Great Men to condescend to me. When one of them did, you noted that you understood my comment, and I'm grateful.

Any time.

Craig Grebeck
06-03-2008, 12:47 AM
I am seriously at a loss for words right now. I'm not sure which is a more heinous idea: Cabrera to 1B or Owens to anywhere but AAA?

Tragg
06-03-2008, 01:34 AM
Let Anderson play every day before bringing up Owens. Anderson actually has talent.

Call up Richar; dump Ozuna or Uribe.

TDog
06-03-2008, 02:30 AM
Yeah. MLB pitching isn't nearly as good as AAA pitching is.

There are some people who hit for higher averages in the majors than they do in the minors. Frank Thomas might have hit better in the majors, for example. I read that the pitchers in AA didn't give him anything to hit and he walked most of the time. In the majors the ballparks have better lighting, players don't have long bus rides etc. If memory serves Bucky Dent was one of those players who hit for higher averages in the majors.

But if a player hits .302 in the majors after hitting .289 in the minors, the numbers don't really tell you how well he was hitting. They only tell you the percentage of at bats in which he reached base on hits.

Generally, if a player is struggling at AAA, you shouldn't expect him to be able to handle major league pitching.

Save McCuddy's
06-03-2008, 10:17 AM
No matter what solution is offered up on this thread, I'm tired of seeing it typed that Swisher is in a slump. This is much more than a slump. Outside of Paul Konerko, major leaguers don't slump for 200 AB's at a time. Perfectly legitimate to sit him for a week in favor of Anderson if we continue to struggle.