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Sockinchisox
06-01-2008, 04:51 PM
From Cowley:

MOD EDIT: Do not paste copyrighted text to our boards.

gogosox16
06-01-2008, 04:52 PM
From Cowley.
Who;s Ozzie furious about?

itsnotrequired
06-01-2008, 04:54 PM
Interesting...

JB98
06-01-2008, 04:54 PM
Good. I'm glad Ozzie is furious. We're two months into the season, and this offense malaise doesn't show a sign of stopping.

And, no, I don't have any corn for popping.

The Immigrant
06-01-2008, 04:55 PM
Sounds like poor Uribe is about to get waived again. :tongue:

gogosox16
06-01-2008, 04:55 PM
I would really like to see something happen to spark this team

Daver
06-01-2008, 04:55 PM
Ozzie needs to point with the thumb, he is at fault as much as anyone.

oeo
06-01-2008, 04:56 PM
Seen this one already. Multiple times, actually.

The Sox lose a few games, Cowley says changes are coming, nothing happens.

veeter
06-01-2008, 04:56 PM
Sounds like poor Uribe is about to get waived again. :tongue:Thank you. I actually laughed out loud at that one.

veeter
06-01-2008, 04:57 PM
Ozzie needs to point with the thumb, he is at fault as much as anyone.Yes, yes, yes

oeo
06-01-2008, 04:57 PM
Ozzie needs to point with the thumb, he is at fault as much as anyone.

:lol:

Please, Daver, enlighten us.

RockJock07
06-01-2008, 04:57 PM
Look Ozzie made line-up changes and it worked for awhile but when about half of your line-up is bad your hands are really tied. KW gave him TCQ, A Ram, and OC but after that besides AJ the rest of the line-up is scary bad. I think you could DL Konerko because he's hurt but I'm not sure what else he can do. Fields needs to be up right away and swisher should go down.

aryzner
06-01-2008, 04:57 PM
He should be mad. If this team could score average to above-average runs it sure seems like they'd not even have 10 losses on the year.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 04:57 PM
Sounds like poor Uribe is about to get waived again. :tongue:

:praying:

TommyGavinFloyd
06-01-2008, 04:57 PM
Who;s Ozzie furious about?

Probably a sum of it all. I'd say the only people he can't be furious at are Quentin, Ramirez, Cabrera, and Dye...everyone else is fair game, with Swisher at the top of the list

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 04:57 PM
KW should have called up and forced Ozzie to pinch hit Quentin for Swisher in the tenth. :tongue:

LITTLE NELL
06-01-2008, 04:58 PM
Ozzie needs to point with the thumb, he is at fault as much as anyone.
Why? Is he batting .203?

Sockinchisox
06-01-2008, 04:58 PM
Seen this one already. Multiple times, actually.

The Sox lose a few games, Cowley says changes are coming, nothing happens.

Those were rumors around the clubhouse that he "heard". This was during Ozzie's postgame comments.

turners56
06-01-2008, 04:58 PM
What's KW going to do? If it was our crappy hitters like Ramirez, Uribe, or Toby Hall screwing things up, KW can make moves. But what can he do with ego driven 30 year old veterans that aren't producing? Trade them? Waive them? I doubt it. We're playing KC next, it doesn't help our cause that Greinke is pitching, but the Royals are coming off a 12 game losing streak that finally ended against the dreadful Indians. We'll see on Tuesday I guess.

Mr. White Sox
06-01-2008, 04:59 PM
Look Ozzie made line-up changes and it worked for awhile but when about half of your line-up is bad your hands are really tied. KW gave him TCQ, A Ram, and OC but after that besides AJ the rest of the line-up is scary bad. I think you could DL Konerko because he's hurt but I'm not sure what else he can do. Fields needs to be up right away and swisher should go down.

The only thing I could see them doing is a Konerko DL trip and a Fields/Eldred recall, not that it changes much in the lineup; you're taking out a slumping, power-hitting, slow, strikeout-prone hitter and adding a guy who won't exactly light the world on fire with his contact ability and speed.

If Kenny Williams is seriously committed to Josh Fields at third, he probably will start taking offers for Crede.

oeo
06-01-2008, 04:59 PM
:praying:

Since Uribe is our big problem. Hell, he's in the process of losing his starting job.

EMachine10
06-01-2008, 05:02 PM
Look Ozzie made line-up changes and it worked for awhile but when about half of your line-up is bad your hands are really tied. KW gave him TCQ, A Ram, and OC but after that besides AJ the rest of the line-up is scary bad. I think you could DL Konerko because he's hurt but I'm not sure what else he can do. Fields needs to be up right away and swisher should go down.
Unfortunately, I think Josh is hurt again.

gogosox16
06-01-2008, 05:02 PM
Since Uribe is our big problem. Hell, he's in the process of losing his starting job.
I think he should already have lost his job with the way Alexei has been playing

JB98
06-01-2008, 05:02 PM
The only thing I could see them doing is a Konerko DL trip and a Fields/Eldred recall, not that it changes much in the lineup; you're taking out a slumping, power-hitting, slow, strikeout-prone hitter and adding a guy who won't exactly light the world on fire with his contact ability and speed.

If Kenny Williams is seriously committed to Josh Fields at third, he probably will start taking offers for Crede.

Fields has been out of the lineup at Charlotte again this week. I think he left Thursday's game in the sixth inning with an injury.

gogosox16
06-01-2008, 05:02 PM
is there a link to this or no?

Sockinchisox
06-01-2008, 05:02 PM
Gonzo story:

Guillen: I expect changes (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/guillen-has-eno.html)

turners56
06-01-2008, 05:03 PM
Ozzie needs to call somebody out to get their attention. Be it Swisher, Thome, or Konerko. Hey, it worked with Cabrera, why not those 3?

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 05:04 PM
Since Uribe is our big problem. Hell, he's in the process of losing his starting job.

Although it wouldn't fix all the hitting problems, dumping Uribe would be a good start. He's the worst hitter on the team by a mile. He represents the worst of the Sox offense - always swinging for homers and striking out way too much. He also represents the "old guard;" he's a veteran who's been here a while and dumping him would shake up the clubhouse. Finally, it would prevent Ozzie from ever playing him again; I fear that if he's on the team that Ozzie will move or bench Ramirez just to get Uribe in at 2B.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 05:04 PM
I think he should already have lost his job with the way Alexei has been playing
If any change has to do with that position, the Sox would release Uribe and bring up Chris Getz.

gogosox16
06-01-2008, 05:05 PM
If any change has to do with that position, the Sox would release Uribe and bring up Chris Getz.
Or they could wait a week or so longer and wait for Danny Richar to be near ready from his injury.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Gonzo story:

Guillen: I expect changes (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/guillen-has-eno.html)

That is EXACTLY how I feel about today. If it's KW's stubborness/laziness hurting the team, I'd say we're pretty ****ed.

veeter
06-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Or they could wait a week or so longer and wait for Danny Richar to be near ready from his injury.They envision a Ramirez-Richar combo up the middle, I'm sure. But for next year.

Madvora
06-01-2008, 05:08 PM
The only changes expected to be made would be Owens, and he really hasn't earned it. However, what else can you do?

The Immigrant
06-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Gonzo story:

Guillen: I expect changes (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/guillen-has-eno.html)


Jesus, it's almost like he's been reading our post-game threads.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Gonzo story:

Guillen: I expect changes (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/guillen-has-eno.html)

My big fear is that since Thome finally had a decent day at the plate and got a heads-up hustle double in the tenth, Ozzie is going to stick him back at number three in the lineup. Thome shouldn't be batting any higher than fifth in the lineup (as long as Quentin and Dye are playing) unless he wants to experiment by putting him at number two for a while.

oeo
06-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Although it wouldn't fix all the hitting problems, dumping Uribe would be a good start. He's the worst hitter on the team by a mile. He represents the worst of the Sox offense - always swinging for homers and striking out way too much. He also represents the "old guard;" he's a veteran who's been here a while and dumping him would shake up the clubhouse. Finally, it would prevent Ozzie from ever playing him again; I fear that if he's on the team that Ozzie will move or bench Ramirez just to get Uribe in at 2B.

Hey, I want Uribe to get the boot as much as the next guy, but that's not a big move that will seriously help the team. Uribe should be gone, no doubt, but something else needs to happen.

There's not much Kenny can do, though. You could trade Crede, but Fields is really struggling down at Charlotte. You could bring Richar up, and move Ramirez to CF, but Richar could use some ABs before he's brought in. You can't move Paulie, Swisher, or Thome. There's no one to even replace them in the lineup.

His hands are tied. Maybe this is the last straw for Walker?

Also, I'd like to see these big lineup changes Ozzie is talking about. What's he going to do? There's no one in Chicago, and there's no one in the farm system.

JB98
06-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Although it wouldn't fix all the hitting problems, dumping Uribe would be a good start. He's the worst hitter on the team by a mile. He represents the worst of the Sox offense - always swinging for homers and striking out way too much. He also represents the "old guard;" he's a veteran who's been here a while and dumping him would shake up the clubhouse. Finally, it would prevent Ozzie from ever playing him again; I fear that if he's on the team that Ozzie will move or bench Ramirez just to get Uribe in at 2B.

Ya know, I really don't have that fear. Judging by some of Ozzie's comments and the fact that Uribe was placed on waivers earlier this year, I don't think Uribe is considered any sort of sacred cow. Earlier in the year, Uribe kept his spot in the lineup because neither Ramirez nor Ozuna took advantage of opportunities. There were times Uribe sat even before he got hurt, but the replacements just didn't do anything. That has changed now, as Ramirez has stepped up.

With Alexei, I think we are seeing a classic case of "heating up with the weather." He couldn't do **** out there in the cold weather. Now, he looks like a ballplayer. As far as I'm concerned, he's our 2B now.

As long as Uribe is on the roster, however, you know he will get a chance to play at some point. Ozzie always uses his bench. And the minute Uribe does get one start, I'm sure the Ozzie critics will be out in full force, accusing him of favoritism toward Uribe.

I just don't see it.

Madvora
06-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Ozzie mentions that he's not protecting anyone anymore. I wonder what that means.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 05:10 PM
Ozzie finally threw Walker into the fire only its about 9 months too late. As far as Swisher goes I want him batting 5th. He starts the season leading off, not natural for him. Then because he didn't perform he gets dropped to 8th. All that tells a guy is either A) your in the lineup because of your defense or B) your in the lineup cause you have to be. All it does is add pressure. By Tuesday I see:
1) Walker fired
2) Uribe released or traded he is useless now.
3) ....

Sockinchisox
06-01-2008, 05:10 PM
Ozzie mentions that he's not protecting anyone anymore. I wonder what that means.

Probably making excuses for why they're not doing anything.

veeter
06-01-2008, 05:10 PM
Gonzo story:

Guillen: I expect changes (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/guillen-has-eno.html)
If the part about not protecting anyone anymore is true, I'll be happy. But who does he expect KW to find by tuesday? What teams want to trade good hitters away right now?

doublem23
06-01-2008, 05:11 PM
That is EXACTLY how I feel about today. If it's KW's stubborness/laziness hurting the team, I'd say we're pretty ****ed.

There's *maybe* 5-6 teams right now that are totally out of the running already. For everyone else, it's June 1 and you still have a chance at the post-season, so I don't know who KW is supposed to call and try and make a deal with. Not too mention, we don't have many tradeable pieces right now, and futhermore, we have maybe 3 guys in our farm system that can handle life in the MLB right now (and that might be too generous as Fields, Owens, and Richar are batting .244, .224, and .200 respectively).

These guys just need to ****ing hit.

Jerko
06-01-2008, 05:11 PM
No wonder we lost, according to the first line we only had 14 at bats today. Great article.

turners56
06-01-2008, 05:11 PM
Ozzie finally threw Walker into the fire only its about 9 months too late. As far as Swisher goes I want him batting 5th. He starts the season leading off, not natural for him. Then because he didn't perform he gets dropped to 8th. All that tells a guy is either A) your in the lineup because of your defense or B) your in the lineup cause you have to be. All it does is add pressure. By Tuesday I see:
1) Walker fired
2) Uribe released or traded he is useless now.
3) ....

And putting a struggling hitter in the middle of the lineup helps this team? Until Swisher shows he can get his head out of his ass, I would keep him in the bottom of the order or even out of the lineup. Because Brian Anderson is playing much better than he is right now.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 05:12 PM
Ya know, I really don't have that fear. Judging by some of Ozzie's comments and the fact that Uribe was placed on waivers earlier this year, I don't think Uribe is considered any sort of sacred cow. Earlier in the year, Uribe kept his spot in the lineup because neither Ramirez nor Ozuna took advantage of opportunities. There were times Uribe sat even before he got hurt, but the replacements just didn't do anything. That has changed now, as Ramirez has stepped up.

With Alexei, I think we are seeing a classic case of "heating up with the weather." He couldn't do **** out there in the cold weather. Now, he looks like a ballplayer. As far as I'm concerned, he's our 2B now.

As long as Uribe is on the roster, however, you know he will get a chance to play at some point. Ozzie always uses his bench. And the minute Uribe does get one start, I'm sure the Ozzie critics will be out in full force, accusing him of favoritism toward Uribe.

I just don't see it.

I really hope you are right. But Ozzie just made comments in the past few days, essentially saying, "We need Uribe's defense in at 2B." I don't know how to take that, other than to take it at face value. Either that, or Ozzie is trying to keep Ramirez motivated.

turners56
06-01-2008, 05:12 PM
No wonder we lost, according to the first line we only had 14 at bats today. Great article.

I think they meant with runners in scoring position.

doublem23
06-01-2008, 05:12 PM
Or they could wait a week or so longer and wait for Danny Richar to be near ready from his injury.

Danny Richar is not the answer. Who is he going to replace? Ramirez? Cabrera? Right now, those are 2 of the 3 best hitters on the team.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 05:13 PM
My big fear is that since Thome finally had a decent day at the plate and got a heads-up hustle double in the tenth, Ozzie is going to stick him back at number three in the lineup. Thome shouldn't be batting any higher than fifth in the lineup (as long as Quentin and Dye are playing) unless he wants to experiment by putting him at number two for a while.
Hell why not lead Thome off with Cabrera 2nd? Whats the worst that can happen? Even though he has done a little better Cabrera is still sucking offensively and I don't think Thome can do any worse.
1) Thome- DH
2) Cabrera- SS
3) Quentin- LF
4) Dye- RF
5) Swisher- CF
6) AJ- C
7) Paulie- 1B
8) Crede- 3B
9) Ramirez- 2B

Metalthrasher442
06-01-2008, 05:14 PM
I have no idea what the changes are going to be, but they are long over due. Imagine if we would have won every game that we lost like today.

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 05:14 PM
I'd rather see Uribe stay if the Sox can't get anything for him in a trade. If the Sox are thinking of eating his contract then just keep him as a backup IF. I don't want to see him as a starter anymore.

I think Ozzie's statement means:
1. Greg Walker is on the verge of losing his job, finally
2. Anderson is the everyday CF until further notice
3. Ramirez is the everyday 2B
4. OC is on the block
5. A ton more Brian Roberts speculation is about to occur
6. I think its possible Willy Taveras is our CF pretty soon. He's having a down year with the Rockies who are out of contention and the Sox have shown interest both after 2006 (rumored Garland deal) and after 2007 (Ed Farmer said on the radio that the Sox tried to pick him up but he wasn't available).

Tragg
06-01-2008, 05:14 PM
Ozzie wants changes? I have a suggestion....

Sockinchisox
06-01-2008, 05:14 PM
Cowley's story:

Ozzie really being Ozzie (http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2008/06/ozzie_really_being_ozzie.html)

guillen4life13
06-01-2008, 05:15 PM
I think Ozzie is trying to get a rise out of his players by saying that jobs (including his own) are on the line. We'll see. I wouldn't be surprised if a move is made soon, but I think this is more Ozzie playing the media for the team. And I doubt his job is in jeopardy. I kind of believe and hope that Walker's is. It's not a testament to his skills as a coach but a fresh coach with fresh ideas might be what the team needs right now.

I'm no expert, of course.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 05:15 PM
Hell why not lead Thome off with Cabrera 2nd? Whats the worst that can happen? Even though he has done a little better Cabrera is still sucking offensively and I don't think Thome can do any worse.
1) Thome- DH
2) Cabrera- SS
3) Quentin- LF
4) Dye- RF
5) Swisher- CF
6) AJ- C
7) Paulie- 1B
8) Crede- 3B
9) Ramirez- 2B
Swap Swisher with Crede in your lineup and I'll take it.

Jerko
06-01-2008, 05:15 PM
My prediction for the "changes"....... Uribe back at 2b, Ramirez full time in CF, Swish on the bench. Not saying I agree with that, but I can see it happening.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 05:16 PM
My prediction for the "changes"....... Uribe back at 2b, Ramirez full time in CF, Swish on the bench. Not saying I agree with that, but I can see it happening.
I'll take that too, for now.

RockJock07
06-01-2008, 05:16 PM
Ya know, I really don't have that fear. Judging by some of Ozzie's comments and the fact that Uribe was placed on waivers earlier this year, I don't think Uribe is considered any sort of sacred cow. Earlier in the year, Uribe kept his spot in the lineup because neither Ramirez nor Ozuna took advantage of opportunities. There were times Uribe sat even before he got hurt, but the replacements just didn't do anything. That has changed now, as Ramirez has stepped up.

With Alexei, I think we are seeing a classic case of "heating up with the weather." He couldn't do **** out there in the cold weather. Now, he looks like a ballplayer. As far as I'm concerned, he's our 2B now.

As long as Uribe is on the roster, however, you know he will get a chance to play at some point. Ozzie always uses his bench. And the minute Uribe does get one start, I'm sure the Ozzie critics will be out in full force, accusing him of favoritism toward Uribe.

I just don't see it.

Right, Uribe was bad but his possible replacements were just as bad. Alexei was a proven hitter in a league that is filled with guys that can play the game better then most puds in the MLB. Just watching him, you can see the talent that makes him a star in the making. His fielding is exciting, that throw he made today on that bloop hit was impressive. Yes, he's gonna struggle because he's still raw but he will end up being a very good player for this team.

oeo
06-01-2008, 05:16 PM
Danny Richar is not the answer. Who is he going to replace? Ramirez? Cabrera? Right now, those are 2 of the 3 best hitters on the team.

The plan right now would be to have him replace Swisher.

Move Ramirez to CF, and bring Richar in to play 2B. I'd say it's worth a try at this point, but I'd still like to see Richar get more AB's at Charlotte.

Daver
06-01-2008, 05:17 PM
My prediction for the "changes"....... Uribe back at 2b, Ramirez full time in CF, Swish on the bench. Not saying I agree with that, but I can see it happening.


That would prove that Ozzie is an idiot.

veeter
06-01-2008, 05:17 PM
Ozzie wants changes? I have a suggestion....yeees.

Madvora
06-01-2008, 05:18 PM
I think Ozzie's statement means:
1. Greg Walker is on the verge of losing his job, finally
2. Anderson is the everyday CF until further notice
3. Ramirez is the everyday 2B
4. OC is on the block
5. A ton more Brian Roberts speculation is about to occur
6. I think its possible Willy Taveras is our CF pretty soon. He's having a down year with the Rockies who are out of contention and the Sox have shown interest both after 2005 (rumored Garland deal) and after 2006 (Ed Farmer said on the radio that the Sox tried to pick him up but he wasn't available).
Those are all likely. I think the major changes are going to come from within the organization though. It's too early for other teams to start giving us stuff. We will see people going back and forth to AAA and changes in the batting order. I think that's as such as we can expect right now.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 05:18 PM
Swap Swisher with Crede in your lineup and I'll take it.
My reason for Swisher moved up: he is a very emotional player. He was moved from leadoff to 8th. In my opinion, all that did was take any preesure Swish put on himself already and multiply by 10. Put him somewhere in the order where he doesn't need to think and can relax and just hit.

JB98
06-01-2008, 05:19 PM
I really hope you are right. But Ozzie just made comments in the past few days, essentially saying, "We need Uribe's defense in at 2B." I don't know how to take that, other than to take it at face value. Either that, or Ozzie is trying to keep Ramirez motivated.

Give Ozzie 10 minutes, and he'll contradict himself. Before Uribe was hurt, Ozzie said that he was tired of seeing Uribe's bad ABs, but that neither Ramirez nor Ozuna had distinguished themselves. Thus, he was sticking with Uribe for defensive reasons. That was probably late, April, early May, last time we were struggling like this.

I just take a closer look at what Ozzie does, not what he says. Uribe has been back with the team for two days, which admittedly isn't much, but Ozzie has yet to put Uribe in the lineup.

Ozzie talks out his ass all the time. What action he takes is really what matters.

Madvora
06-01-2008, 05:19 PM
My reason for Swisher moved up: he is a very emotional player. He was moved from leadoff to 8th. In my opinion, all that did was take any preesure Swish put on himself already and multiply by 10. Put him somewhere in the order where he doesn't need to think and can relax and just hit.
The batting cages.

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 05:19 PM
Hell why not lead Thome off with Cabrera 2nd? Whats the worst that can happen? Even though he has done a little better Cabrera is still sucking offensively and I don't think Thome can do any worse.
1) Thome- DH
2) Cabrera- SS
3) Quentin- LF
4) Dye- RF
5) Swisher- CF
6) AJ- C
7) Paulie- 1B
8) Crede- 3B
9) Ramirez- 2B
Lead off with a strikeout or a sloth on the basepaths?

If you're going to move AJ out of the two hole, Ramirez is the only guy that makes sense. Cabrera should stay at lead-off until the Sox pick up someone who is better for that spot.

oeo
06-01-2008, 05:20 PM
My reason for Swisher moved up: he is a very emotional player. He was moved from leadoff to 8th. In my opinion, all that did was take any preesure Swish put on himself already and multiply by 10. Put him somewhere in the order where he doesn't need to think and can relax and just hit.

I say give him a few days off so he can just clear his mind. Tomorrow is one, then give him Tuesday, Wednesday, and possibly Thursday off.

He's one guy that's doing too much thinking up there. It was evident when he watched strike three today in the 10th.

RockJock07
06-01-2008, 05:21 PM
I'd rather see Uribe stay if the Sox can't get anything for him in a trade. If the Sox are thinking of eating his contract then just keep him as a backup IF. I don't want to see him as a starter anymore.

I think Ozzie's statement means:
1. Greg Walker is on the verge of losing his job, finally
2. Anderson is the everyday CF until further notice
3. Ramirez is the everyday 2B
4. OC is on the block
5. A ton more Brian Roberts speculation is about to occur
6. I think its possible Willy Taveras is our CF pretty soon. He's having a down year with the Rockies who are out of contention and the Sox have shown interest both after 2006 (rumored Garland deal) and after 2007 (Ed Farmer said on the radio that the Sox tried to pick him up but he wasn't available).

Like those all, but as long as we are in contention, oc is our SS. As far as Roberts, not gonna happen, we need middle of the order of the help, plus we don't have many things to give up. If we are gonna give up fields, you better get something back who is gonna be a middle of the order guy. Because Josh isn't a Jeremey Reed, Sweeney, or even Gio, he's as proven has any prospect will get.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2008, 05:24 PM
Part of me says, "it's about time..." Part of me says "I've heard this song and dance before."

Honestly what are the Sox going to do before Tuesday? Cut half the team? Find a sucker to take them in trade? Doubtful.

The minor leagues are barren, Fields is hurt again...no help there.

They are between a rock and a hard place in this one.

Lip

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 05:25 PM
Those are all likely. I think the major changes are going to come from within the organization though. It's too early for other teams to start giving us stuff. We will see people going back and forth to AAA and changes in the batting order. I think that's as such as we can expect right now.
You're right, but it is June 1st. Kenny will strike early on a big deal if he can, and there are some teams out there (SD, Colorado especially) that have a few players to move and might get started early. IIRC Kenny picked up Freddy mid-June in 2004.

Boondock Saint
06-01-2008, 05:25 PM
My prediction for the "changes"....... Uribe back at 2b, Ramirez full time in CF, Swish on the bench. Not saying I agree with that, but I can see it happening.

Why would you do that when you could keep Alexei where he is and just replace Swisher with Anderson?

Lillian
06-01-2008, 05:26 PM
Maybe Kenny should start by picking one of our slow, low average power hitters, and try to trade him to a team who needs a home run threat.
In return we should seek a high average, speedy player. If he has no position, use him as the DH.

The next thing would be to bring up both Fields and Richar when they are healthy. If Crede is the one to go, then Fields plays Third. If not, maybe he can DH the rest of the year.

If one change isn't enough, then maybe Kenny should find a second candidate to move.

There is only so much time that this trend can be allowed to continue before it simply becomes the norm for this group.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 05:26 PM
Part of me says, "it's about time..." Part of me says "I've heard this song and dance before."

Honestly what are the Sox going to do before Tuesday? Cut half the team? Find a sucker to them them in trade? Doubtful.

The minor leagues are barren, Fields is hurt again...no help there.

They are between a rock and a hard place in this one.

Lip
Reminds me of a scene in The Simpsons Movie.

JB98
06-01-2008, 05:27 PM
Part of me says, "it's about time..." Part of me says "I've heard this song and dance before."

Honestly what are the Sox going to do before Tuesday? Cut half the team? Find a sucker to them them in trade? Doubtful.

The minor leagues are barren, Fields is hurt again...no help there.

They are between a rock and a hard place in this one.

Lip

I'd fire the hitting coach. I know that will get me flamed here, but at some point someone has to be held accountable. If they fire Walker, that will show the players the organization is serious about changing the offensive approach. And if the players don't improve, they'll be the next ones out the door.

btrain929
06-01-2008, 05:29 PM
Ozzie needs to point with the thumb, he is at fault as much as anyone.

Because his team isn't hitting? We're you pointing at him during our winning streak? Because nothing much has changed from then to now.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 05:30 PM
I'd fire the hitting coach. I know that will get me flamed here, but at some point someone has to be held accountable. If they fire Walker, that will show the players the organization is serious about changing the offensive approach. And if the players don't improve, they'll be the next ones out the door.
Exactly. Someone has had their head up their ass for far too long though, so it should've happened already. I'm sick of all talk and no walk.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 05:30 PM
For all the Richar supporters where you put him? Ramirez to CF shouldn't be an option either he is too good with the glove at 2B.

Daver
06-01-2008, 05:31 PM
Maybe Kenny should start by picking one of our slow, low average power hitters, and try to trade him to a team who needs a home run threat.


Thome has a no trade clause, Konerko has 5 and 10 rights, that leaves Crede who has little value as a rent a player, or Swisher, who is hitting .201.

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 05:33 PM
Like those all, but as long as we are in contention, oc is our SS. As far as Roberts, not gonna happen, we need middle of the order of the help, plus we don't have many things to give up. If we are gonna give up fields, you better get something back who is gonna be a middle of the order guy. Because Josh isn't a Jeremey Reed, Sweeney, or even Gio, he's as proven has any prospect will get.
I wouldn't give up Fields for Roberts but something like Cabrera + Getz/Richar + Broadway (whose stock is rising) + Poreda would be competitive considering OC is a lock to both deny arbitration and bring Type A compensation.

Frankie5Angels
06-01-2008, 05:33 PM
Mod Edit: Don't paste copyrighted material. Just post the link and if you want to summarize.

Oh and next time can you at least look at the first few threads on the page. This one was 4th when you posted your new one. 4th...

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....en-has-eno.html (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/guillen-has-eno.html)
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/misc/progress.gif

fquaye149
06-01-2008, 05:37 PM
i agree

TheOldRoman
06-01-2008, 05:39 PM
I'd fire the hitting coach. I know that will get me flamed here, but at some point someone has to be held accountable. If they fire Walker, that will show the players the organization is serious about changing the offensive approach. And if the players don't improve, they'll be the next ones out the door.Exactly. And some people bring up (logically) the question of who would take over and what makes us think he would do a better job than Walker.

Look at the performance this year, then look at the talent this team has. There is no way possible that these hitters could perform any worse than they have been.

Other teams have had the book on Walkerball for years now. Jam them inside, then throw garbage low and/or two feet outside, and they will chase it. On the third pitch, throw a meatball over the heart of the plate, and they will take it. Part II and III are reversible. The hitters can't adjust, they can't go the other way. It is frustrating to watch because you know its coming. But after a string of terrible performances, they club 5 homers in a game and all is right with the world. It needs to change.

That being said, I didn't read the article, but I don't think Walker is in any danger of losing his job, unfortunately.

Sockinchisox
06-01-2008, 05:40 PM
If anyone is interested in hearing the audio, they're going to play it on the post game show in 5 minutes.

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 05:40 PM
For all the Richar supporters where you put him? Ramirez to CF shouldn't be an option either he is too good with the glove at 2B.
I hope Alexei either stays at 2B or moves to SS if something happens with Cabrera. Once he's moved I don't want to see him moved again. Let him get comfortable in the field so he can concentrate on his hitting.

btrain929
06-01-2008, 05:42 PM
I'll take that too, for now.

Yep. If we want to see a hitter that's actually WORSE than Swisher, Uribe is your man...

dickallen15
06-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Since Uribe is our big problem. Hell, he's in the process of losing his starting job.
Wouldn't it be ironic if Uribe was the one to take the fall even though he hasn't played in almost 3 weeks. Maybe they can call up Danny Richar and his .184 AAA average to take his place.

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Nice rant Ozzie. But the reality is....there will not be any changes to the team this week. There's no one at AAA or AA that can help us. There's very little trade bait in the farm system. Your only real move is to play the players that are producing a little. So...based on today...BA should be your CF and Alexei stays at 2nd. I'd move him up to 2nd in the order so there's a little more speed and small ball in the 2 slot. Let AJ use his power lower in the order. Sit Thome against all LH starters not named Sabbathia.

Most of your potential trade bait was used to acquire Swisher. He gets in when it makes sense (against LHs).

Oh...and one more change. When Thornton is blowing 94 mph heat by a hitter and the count is 0-2, one change to be made is....keep throwing the fastball. :angry:

btrain929
06-01-2008, 05:43 PM
My reason for Swisher moved up: he is a very emotional player. He was moved from leadoff to 8th. In my opinion, all that did was take any preesure Swish put on himself already and multiply by 10. Put him somewhere in the order where he doesn't need to think and can relax and just hit.

Sounds like the 7th/8th hole to me...

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 05:44 PM
Exactly. And some people bring up (logically) the question of who would take over and what makes us think he would do a better job than Walker.
Buddy Bell is in the organization now. I'd ask for his input.

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 05:46 PM
Buddy Bell is in the organization now. I'd ask for his input.

Some of the relatively basic offensive skills we're not capable of:

Stealing a base
Going from 1st to 3rd on a single (2/3's of line up)
Scoring from 2nd on a single (2/3's of line up)
Scoring from 1st on a double (2/3's of line up)
Laying down a bunt
Executing a hit and run
Hitting the ball to the right side to advance the runner
Scoring from 3rd on an average fly ball (2/3's of line up)Between our lack of speed and lack of bat control (ie. hackers)...our offense is very difficult to get started. I don't think a new hitting coach or Buddly Bell is the answer. The team make up needs to change.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 05:47 PM
I'd fire the hitting coach. I know that will get me flamed here, but at some point someone has to be held accountable. If they fire Walker, that will show the players the organization is serious about changing the offensive approach. And if the players don't improve, they'll be the next ones out the door.
It's interesting because Guillen said (paraphrasing so as not to post copyrighted material) that someone has to be moved whether it be me (Ozzie), Greg Walker, or the players. Then he concluded saying he's not protecting anyone anymore.

It's obvious that KW can't bring any players in that are going to drastically change things. Cutting Uribe solves nothing with the offensive woes of this team. Ozzie never has been shy about throwing his players under the bus anyway. But he's never ever said anything negative about Greg Walker.

So Ozzie's comments could be interpreted as saying, "These hitters have had a terrible approach for two years now and the hitting coach is the guy in charge of that. I'm not protecting him anymore. Either get me a coach that could get through to these hitters or fire me, because I'm tired of watching this ****!"

.....Or it could be Ozzie just venting and talking out of his ass again.....

dickallen15
06-01-2008, 05:50 PM
Some of the relatively basic offensive skills we're not capable of:

Stealing a base
Going from 1st to 3rd on a single (2/3's of line up)
Scoring from 2nd on a single (2/3's of line up)
Scoring from 1st on a double (2/3's of line up)
Laying down a bunt
Executing a hit and run
Hitting the ball to the right side to advance the runner
Scoring from 3rd on an average fly ball (2/3's of line up)Between our lack of speed and lack of bat control (ie. hackers)...our offense is very difficult to get started. I don't think a new hitting coach or Buddly Bell is the answer. The team make up needs to change.

That is it. A new hitting coach isn't going to make much of a difference when the line-up is as flawed as it is.

wealz07
06-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Don't make any changes. They're 17-17 on the road which is fine. They're built for Sox park where they can take best advantage of this walk/homer style offense.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Yep. If we want to see a hitter that's actually WORSE than Swisher, Uribe is your man...
Have you been watching the games in May? Uribe was hitting the ball better before he got hurt, and Swisher has been sucking all month.

Nobody is suggesting these particular lineup changes in this thread as permanent solutions. Just a temporary change to get the offense out of this rut.

voodoochile
06-01-2008, 05:54 PM
Some of the relatively basic offensive skills we're not capable of:
Stealing a base
Going from 1st to 3rd on a single (2/3's of line up)
Scoring from 2nd on a single (2/3's of line up)
Scoring from 1st on a double (2/3's of line up)
Laying down a bunt
Executing a hit and run
Hitting the ball to the right side to advance the runner
Scoring from 3rd on an average fly ball (2/3's of line up)Between our lack of speed and lack of bat control (ie. hackers)...our offense is very difficult to get started. I don't think a new hitting coach or Buddly Bell is the answer. The team make up needs to change.

2/3rds of lineup?

The speed issues are limited to Thome and Konerko which last I checked is 2/9 of lineup. I understand people are frustrated, but at least try to be rational if you want your point to be heard, because this is simply bull****...

RockJock07
06-01-2008, 05:56 PM
It's interesting because Guillen said (paraphrasing so as not to post copyrighted material) that someone has to be moved whether it be me (Ozzie), Greg Walker, or the players. Then he concluded saying he's not protecting anyone anymore.

It's obvious that KW can't bring any players in that are going to drastically change things. Cutting Uribe solves nothing with the offensive woes of this team. Ozzie never has been shy about throwing his players under the bus anyway. But he's never ever said anything negative about Greg Walker.

So Ozzie's comments could be interpreted as saying, "These hitters have had a terrible approach for two years now and the hitting coach is the guy in charge of that. I'm not protecting him anymore. Either get me a coach that could get through to these hitters or fire me, because I'm tired of watching this ****!"

.....Or it could be Ozzie just venting and talking out of his ass again.....

I think your right, I really think he sick and tired of Greg Walker. I think he let his emotions get the best of him because I really don't believe it's GW's fault but he and Ozzie know that he will be the first guy to go, right or wrong.

dickallen15
06-01-2008, 05:58 PM
2/3rds of lineup?

The speed issues are limited to Thome and Konerko which last I checked is 2/9 of lineup. I understand people are frustrated, but at least try to be rational if you want your point to be heard, because this is simply bull****...
AJP, Crede, Dye, are all pretty slow. Swisher runs OK, but average. Quentin is average to a little above. 5 out of 9 are station to station.

voodoochile
06-01-2008, 06:00 PM
AJP, Crede, Dye, are all pretty slow. Swisher runs OK, but average. Quentin is average to a little above. 5 out of 9 are station to station.

And all of them are capable of doing the things he said they couldn't. Those things take average speed and good awareness. All of those players have it.

TommyGavinFloyd
06-01-2008, 06:03 PM
AJP, Crede, Dye, are all pretty slow. Swisher runs OK, but average. Quentin is average to a little above. 5 out of 9 are station to station.

Agreed. It is not limited just to Thome and Konerko.

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 06:04 PM
The Sox team stats:

Runs scored: 241 (below league average of 246)
Runs per game: 4.30 (below league average of 4.38)
AVG: .246 (below league average of .259)
OBP: .326 (below league average of .331)
SLG: .402 (above league average of .397)
OPS: .727 (at league average of .727)
AVG w/ RISP: .265 (below league average of .266)

It's true that we lack balance, but looking at our lineup we shouldn't be below the league average in so many important offensive categories.

Let's just assume for a second that the Sox acquired Ichiro tomorrow to lead off and play CF. We give up nothing but a career minor leaguer so we lose nothing. We simply replace Swisher's black hole in the lineup with Ichiro, move Cabrera back to the second slot, and keep things as they are. Surely that would help us a ton, but how much is it really going to affect all those numbers above? IMO, it won't raise them enough to take blame off of the shoulders of Greg Walker.

btrain929
06-01-2008, 06:08 PM
The Sox team stats:

Runs scored: 241 (below league average of 246)
Runs per game: 4.30 (below league average of 4.38)
AVG: .246 (below league average of .259)
OBP: .326 (below league average of .331)
SLG: .402 (above league average of .397)
OPS: .727 (at league average of .727)
AVG w/ RISP: .265 (below league average of .266)

It's true that we lack balance, but looking at our lineup we shouldn't be below the league average in so many important offensive categories.

Let's just assume for a second that the Sox acquired Ichiro tomorrow to lead off and play CF. We give up nothing but a career minor leaguer so we lose nothing. We simply replace Swisher's black hole in the lineup with Ichiro, move Cabrera back to the second slot, and keep things as they are. Surely that would help us a ton, but how much is it really going to affect all those numbers above? IMO, it won't raise them enough to take blame off of the shoulders of Greg Walker.

Would I take Ichiro in a heartbeat? Absolutely. But he would get on base for us. We need someone with balls that can knock people in when people are on base. A solid #5-6 hitter.

guillen4life13
06-01-2008, 06:10 PM
I wouldn't give up Fields for Roberts but something like Cabrera + Getz/Richar + Broadway (whose stock is rising) + Poreda would be competitive considering OC is a lock to both deny arbitration and bring Type A compensation.

NO!

Paulwny
06-01-2008, 06:13 PM
People, people what happened to the "CHEMISTRY" BS that we heard about being such a BIG factor in turning this team around.
Having a happy family doesn't help you hit a baseball.

roadrunner
06-01-2008, 06:14 PM
And all of them are capable of doing the things he said they couldn't. Those things take average speed and good awareness. All of those players have it.

AJP, Crede and Dye all have below average speed even for their positions.

Additionally, Swisher is even more below the average for his position.

It's Time
06-01-2008, 06:14 PM
4 runs in 3 games? Yes, time for changes. However, what can be done? The chemistry seems good and if you start benching players, how will that play with the chemistry?

A trend would have been maybe a month long slump, not a 1.5 YEAR slump.

It's not a good situation. The pitching is certain to cave under the enormous pressure of having to be nearly damned near perfect almost every outing.

Boondock Saint
06-01-2008, 06:14 PM
HELL NO!

Fixed it for ya. We DO have to keep a farm system of some sort.

voodoochile
06-01-2008, 06:18 PM
AJP, Crede and Dye all have below average speed even for their positions.

Additionally, Swisher is even more below the average for his position.

Actually AJ is moving better this year.

And of course none of that changes that all of them are capable of doing what TB claimed they can't.

btrain929
06-01-2008, 06:19 PM
AJP, Crede and Dye all have below average speed even for their positions.

Additionally, Swisher is even more below the average for his position.

Am I the only one who thinks AJ has pretty good speed for a catcher? He's turned a lot of routine singles into doubles by good instincts and decent speed.

Paulwny
06-01-2008, 06:23 PM
Am I the only one who thinks AJ has pretty good speed for a catcher? He's turned a lot of routine singles into doubles by good instincts and decent speed.

No, I agree. AJ has good baseball instincts because he's a product of the Twins farm system.

Optipessimism
06-01-2008, 06:23 PM
NO!

Fixed it for ya. We DO have to keep a farm system of some sort.
Those guys don't look like future superstars or anything. I doubt any one of those players have the type of value that Gio or DLS had when they were traded for Swisher. And even Sweeney must have been thought of pretty highly by some people because aside from a couple trips to the DL he's been a brilliant acquistion by Beane.

I like Richar but I'd give him up for Roberts any day of the week, same with Getz. Poreda is a one-pitch pitcher with hardly any secondary stuff and that's probably why he's been getting rocked recently. Broadway is the only prospect mentioned that would be hard to lose IMO but even he's probably just a future back end of the rotation guy and I assume KW could find a similar prospect somewhere without a whole lot of trouble.

Tragg
06-01-2008, 06:27 PM
While this offense could use Roberts, he just isn't that great a player. .350 obp and 4 homers, 14 steals....that's nice, but not worth trading every piece we have for - or Baltimore's inflated price; there is no shortage of 430+ year olds on this team.

Get Richar up here....let's see what he can do. Let Ramirez play SS or LF. Leave Anderson in CF - let's see if he's improved enough to be an everyday p layer.

gogosox16
06-01-2008, 06:28 PM
While this offense could use Roberts, he just isn't that great a player. .350 obp and 4 homers, 14 steals....that's nice, but not worth trading every piece we have for - or Baltimore's inflated price; there is no shortage of 430+ year olds on this team.

Get Richar up here....let's see what he can do. Let Ramirez play SS or LF. Leave Anderson in CF - let's see if he's improved enough to be an everyday p layer.
If you were to have Alexei play left, then where does Quentin go:scratch:

btrain929
06-01-2008, 06:31 PM
No, I agree. AJ has good baseball instincts because he's a product of the Twins farm system.

That wasn't my question.

soxwon
06-01-2008, 06:31 PM
It's all in the plan, its going perfectly.
We want the league to think we are struggling, but we're in first place people.
and we havent hit our stride yet, when we do no lookin back, full throtle to the Series.
Im so psyched for us winning it all again.
Am I the only believer? Looks that way to me.
Wise up people, we are the team to beat.
We have all the ingredients, and we will bake the biggest cake, at the end.
I for one KNOW its our year, who's with me? Or all you dark clouds?

KyWhiSoxFan
06-01-2008, 06:32 PM
The Sox need to:
1) Fire Walker.
2) Don't put in the lineup more than one of the following three for awhile: Thome, Konerko, Swisher.
3) Trade Crede. The Sox may be able to get something for him (they can't get anything for Thome and they can't trade Konerko). After the first month, Crede has not done much as far as I'm concerned. Plus, he has ten errors. While his average has been okay, he has not been productive. He batted in 22 in April but only 7 in May. They're going to lose Crede anyway by year end. I'd put Fields or Uribe at third.

soxwon
06-01-2008, 06:40 PM
The Sox need to:
1) Fire Walker.
2) Don't put in the lineup more than one of the following three for awhile: Thome, Konerko, Swisher.
3) Trade Crede. The Sox may be able to get something for him (they can't get anything for Thome and they can't trade Konerko). After the first month, Crede has not done much as far as I'm concerned. Plus, he has ten errors. While his average has been okay, he has not been productive. He batted in 22 in April but only 7 in May. They're going to lose Crede anyway by year end. I'd put Fields or Uribe at third.

ive heard crede's signing, fields will be traded.

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 06:49 PM
2/3rds of lineup?

The speed issues are limited to Thome and Konerko which last I checked is 2/9 of lineup. I understand people are frustrated, but at least try to be rational if you want your point to be heard, because this is simply bull****...

The 5 slow players in my mind:

Konerko
Thome
Crede
AJ
DyeYou're right it's 56% of the starters not 67%. If you don't consider AJ, Crede and Dye as slow....you're not being rational and that's bull****.

Daver
06-01-2008, 06:50 PM
The 5 slow players in my mind:
Konerko
Thome
Crede
AJ
DyeYou're right it's 56% of the starters not 67%. If you don't consider AJ, Crede and Dye as slow....you're not being rational and that's bull****.

You don't have to be fast to run the bases well.

No, really, it's true.

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 06:51 PM
And all of them are capable of doing the things he said they couldn't. Those things take average speed and good awareness. All of those players have it.

You CANNOT count on them to score from 1st on a double, from 2nd on a single, etc. I've watched almost every game this season....it almost never happens on this team with these players.

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 06:52 PM
AJP, Crede and Dye all have below average speed even for their positions.

Additionally, Swisher is even more below the average for his position.

Good point...we actually needed to pinch run for our CF the other night. If you're pinch running for your CF...there's a problem.

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 06:54 PM
Let Ramirez play SS or LF. Leave Anderson in CF - let's see if he's improved enough to be an everyday p layer.

So you want to bench Quentin?

Frankie5Angels
06-01-2008, 06:57 PM
Interesting comments from KW


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/981956,soxearly060108.article

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 06:57 PM
You don't have to be fast to run the bases well.

No, really, it's true.

I didn't say they don't run the base well (Greg Luzinski was a great example of slow guy who ran the bases VERY well)...but in watching the games this year...the 5 player's I've referred to: do not score from 2nd on singles, do not go from 1st to 3rd on base hits to right, etc.

A few guys like that can be expected...but I think 5/9 is choking our ability to score runs.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 07:00 PM
Interesting comments from KW


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/981956,soxearly060108.article
KW basically throwing the ball back in Ozzie's court: You want to fire Walker--you do it!

That means Ozzie will not do it. He has always been squeamish about cutting guys face to face. He usually has KW or someone else do it for him.

munchman33
06-01-2008, 07:00 PM
And all of them are capable of doing the things he said they couldn't.

Sorry Voodoo, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. They might be able to do it SOME of the time, but not near nearly frequent enough to say that they're the kind of players that do those things.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 07:02 PM
Interesting comments from KW


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/981956,soxearly060108.article
Sounds like he's daring Ozzie to make lineup changes. Don't be surprised to see Walker out of a job on Tuesday if KW doesn't do anything.

Soxfest
06-01-2008, 07:04 PM
Nobody wants to make what I see is a no brainer decision in firing Walker!:angry:

Quentin08
06-01-2008, 07:11 PM
What a horrible article! The very last paragraph was already written in the middle of that article.. don't these "journalists" at the Sun Times edit before they post?

As for the comments by KW, I'm more disappointed in his comments that "Ozzie is throwing him under the bus". Back up your coach! Don't make it public that you're once again disappointed in Ozzie, it's getting old. KW's comments seem to be much more divisive, and it just leaves me shaking my head!. :scratch:

Madvora
06-01-2008, 07:11 PM
Interesting comments from KW


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/981956,soxearly060108.article
Pretty interesting. I didn't take this as Ozzie throwing KW under the bus at all. I don't know why KW did.
I see it more as a message to the players... "we have a GM who can drop you like that if you are not performing."

Actually it seemed like those two already had a plan in mind by the way Guillen was talking, but with KW's response... I guess not.

TheOldRoman
06-01-2008, 07:13 PM
Sounds like he's daring Ozzie to make lineup changes. Don't be surprised to see Walker out of a job on Tuesday if KW doesn't do anything.Yep, Kenny basically said he isn't going to do anything in the next two days. That is reasonable, since teams aren't having fire sales on June 1. Also, Kenny sounded really pissed about Ozzie going after him.

I don't think either one of then will fire Walker. I think Ozzie will do something ridiculous with the lineup, such as take the exact lineup from today and reverse it 1 through 9. Oh, the possibilities!

It's Time
06-01-2008, 07:13 PM
KW should have signed Jim Edmonds. :roflmao:

Actually, maybe he should have with the garbage that is out there right now.

soxjim
06-01-2008, 07:14 PM
This offensive has been stuck in neutral for about a season and a half. Ozzie did tinker with the line up and it worked for a while. A possibility is split up Konerko and Thome in the batting order.

TheOldRoman
06-01-2008, 07:16 PM
Pretty interesting. I didn't take this as Ozzie throwing KW under the bus at all. I don't know why KW did.
I see it more as a message to the players... "we have a GM who can drop you like that if you are not performing."
I think it is because Ozzie pointed the finger at Kenny. Kenny put a good team together. They are all slumping, and a big part of the reason is the hitting coach. A talented bunch of players struggle, so it is Kenny's fault? These guys aren't performing, so Kenny has to get a bunch of new guys?
From reading that article, maybe Kenny wanted to fire Walker, and Ozzie stuck up for him. No lineup changes can be made the make them magically hit. Walker needs to go.

Madvora
06-01-2008, 07:18 PM
I think it is because Ozzie pointed the finger at Kenny. Kenny put a good team together. They are all slumping, and a big part of the reason is the hitting coach. From reading that article, maybe Kenny wanted to fire Walker, and Ozzie stuck up for him. No lineup changes can be made the make them magically hit. Walker needs to go.
I really think that's the first option and most likely thing to happen. After this much crap, it's finally time already.
Hopefully that's the first step and there are more to come.

voodoochile
06-01-2008, 07:18 PM
The 5 slow players in my mind:
Konerko
Thome
Crede
AJ
DyeYou're right it's 56% of the starters not 67%. If you don't consider AJ, Crede and Dye as slow....you're not being rational and that's bull****.

Being "slow" and being unable to score from second on a single or go first to third on a ball hit to RF are entirely different issues.

Lukin13
06-01-2008, 07:20 PM
Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

Save Cabrera and TCQ, our lineup is streaky and very one dimensional.

It was the hand KW was dealt coming into '08 but he didn't do anything to change it.

Fields will only make it worse...

The only good thing is the boys are about to get hot again.

Quick question.... who is our "organization wide" hitting coach? I have had a hard time coming to grips recently with how two extremely well rounded, athletic prospects in Josh Fields and Chris B Young who possess talent that would project more like 30/100/.300 guys are 45/100/.210 guys that strike out twice a game.... They are both anomalies, and it is pretty screwy that they both came out of the same organization. Just want to know if we are breeding these free swinging, streaky, rally killers???

Soxman219
06-01-2008, 07:23 PM
KW basically throwing the ball back in Ozzie's court: You want to fire Walker--you do it!

That means Ozzie will not do it. He has always been squeamish about cutting guys face to face. He usually has KW or someone else do it for him.

So he's not afraid to speak his mind but he's afraid to fire someone. If Ozzie is smart, he would fire Walker. Send a message to everyone that he's not taking it anymore.:angry:

I just can't believe that we are talking about firing people even though we are a first place team.

btrain929
06-01-2008, 07:24 PM
The Sox need to:
1) Fire Walker.
2) Don't put in the lineup more than one of the following three for awhile: Thome, Konerko, Swisher.
3) Trade Crede. The Sox may be able to get something for him (they can't get anything for Thome and they can't trade Konerko). After the first month, Crede has not done much as far as I'm concerned. Plus, he has ten errors. While his average has been okay, he has not been productive. He batted in 22 in April but only 7 in May. They're going to lose Crede anyway by year end. I'd put Fields or Uribe at third.

So you're saying that Thome shouldn't play anymore this year, because Konerko and Swisher are our only options for 1B. If only one of them plays, the other, along with Thome, sits? Get real.

TheOldRoman
06-01-2008, 07:28 PM
BTW, I don't put any credence in Ozzie mentioning Walker's name. Ozzie was doing the same thing he always does. He often says how he should be fired, they can fire him any time they want, or the organization should fire him if the team struggles, etc. I'm guessing this was just an effort to give the players a wake-up call.

infohawk
06-01-2008, 07:38 PM
If Kenny Williams is seriously committed to Josh Fields at third, he probably will start taking offers for Crede.
I'm absolutely convinced that the bane of this offense is having all three of Konerko, Thome and Crede in the lineup. I think you can have two of them in the lineup, but not all three because none of them are very good at situational hitting.

Konerko is prone to lengthy slumps. Thome is in decline. He can still help a contender needing a power lefty bat, but again, I come back to the "we can't have all three of these guys in the lineup" argument. Crede has a great glove, but he has never, ever been able to handle pitches on the outer half of the plate. These are the pitches he pops up. The pitches he drives are middle-in, and pitchers must know not to throw anything middle-in. This makes him a limited offensive player.

Swisher isn't hitting, but he doesn't have a history of slumping, and he is a future cornerstone. I'm frustrated with him at the moment, but he's a great addition to this team for the future. Crede won't be here next year, so KW might as well see what he can get for him and bring up Fields. Fields isn't nearly as good with the glove, but is a better offensive player.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 07:40 PM
ive heard crede's signing, fields will be traded.
That would be stupid as Fields is a better option at DH than Thome and at 1B than Konerko right now.

Noneck
06-01-2008, 07:49 PM
That would be stupid as Fields is a better option at DH than Thome and at 1B than Konerko right now.

Even tho he has never played 1B? You are advocating bringing up and playing someone at a position for the 1st time at the major league level? (on a team that is currently in 1st place.) WOW

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 07:52 PM
Being "slow" and being unable to score from second on a single or go first to third on a ball hit to RF are entirely different issues.

The problem is that the Sox don't have much speed, AND many of their hitters lack the ability to score from second on a single or go from first to third on a ball hit to RF.

Daver
06-01-2008, 07:55 PM
Even tho he has never played 1B? You are advocating bringing up and playing someone at a position for the 1st time at the major league level? (on a team that is currently in 1st place.) WOW

The team did it last year.

soxfan21
06-01-2008, 07:56 PM
I just wonder what is going to happen before Tuesday. Don't know if Kenny has something up his sleeve or if it will just be a lineup shuffle. I just hope he does something. It just really sucked to watch these last three games when we had a chance to take at least 2 if not all three of these games. Hopefully we come back Tuesday ready to play and take at least 2 out of 3 from Kansas City.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 07:57 PM
The team did it last year.

Daver, serious question: Do you think Fields could handle 1B defensively?

fquaye149
06-01-2008, 07:58 PM
The problem is that the Sox don't have much speed, AND many of their hitters lack the ability to score from second on a single or go from first to third on a ball hit to RF.

:shrug:

Juan Pierre is probably the answer

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 07:59 PM
Even tho he has never played 1B? You are advocating bringing up and playing someone at a position for the 1st time at the major league level? (on a team that is currently in 1st place.) WOW
Considering the post I was responding too indicated that the organization beyong this season will only have 1 of Crede and Fields. What I was saying was that is rediculous. I would much rather next season have Fields as the DH or 1B with Crede at 3B.

Noneck
06-01-2008, 07:59 PM
The team did it last year.

I don't remember who. Was it in an emergency situation?

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 08:00 PM
:shrug:

Juan Pierre is probably the answer

We don't need another Pierre debate.

Don't you think the overall lack of team speed and its inability to run the bases well is a problem? If so, what would you do about it? If not, why not?

Daver
06-01-2008, 08:01 PM
I don't remember who. Was it in an emergency situation?

Fields in left, and no, there was no emergency.

Noneck
06-01-2008, 08:02 PM
Considering the post I was responding too indicated that the organization beyong this season will only have 1 of Crede and Fields. What I was saying was that is rediculous. I would much rather next season have Fields as the DH or 1B with Crede at 3B.


Ok , I thought you meant now.

Daver
06-01-2008, 08:02 PM
Daver, serious question: Do you think Fields could handle 1B defensively?

Yes.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:03 PM
Daver, serious question: Do you think Fields could handle 1B defensively?
I don't wanna speak for Daver here but considering guys in the past such as Thomas, Thome and Ortiz and currently Pujols and Fielder why couldn't he? 1B/DH is a position you stick guys like Fields.

Noneck
06-01-2008, 08:04 PM
Fields in left, and no, there was no emergency.

I thought he had minor league experience in the OF but you know more than me.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 08:05 PM
Yes.

Do you think Fields could become a better defensive first baseman than Paulie? If so, how much time do you think he'd need to get to that level?

Domeshot17
06-01-2008, 08:09 PM
Fields at first will hurt the rest of the defense if he tries to learn it on the fly at the major league level. He doesn't have the soft hands PK does for digging throws out of the dirt, and he has proven at 3rd he doesnt have a great first step or reaction.

Im not saying he can't learn it, but he will be Mike Piazza bad at first for a while.

slavko
06-01-2008, 08:09 PM
Tell me how fast we can expect the turnaround after Walker is fired. Tell me why we don't have a leadoff man. Tell me how we won a WS by losing power and running and wound up with a bunch of power hitters who can't run 3 years later.

Can PK be traded if he approves? You'ld get something for him. Can Thome be kept on the bench enough so future contracts don't kick in? Can Crede be traded for anything that can run even if it means Uribe plays 3B? Can Dye play a little 1B? That might be his spot. You've got a closer who would get you big talent and a deep bullpen which might contain a replacement. No, I won't apologize for that one.

I don't want to see this kind of pitching go to waste after last year's pitching was so bad.

Daver
06-01-2008, 08:12 PM
Do you think Fields could become a better defensive first baseman than Paulie? If so, how much time do you think he'd need to get to that level?

Hard to say, I doubt it, Paul spent a lot of time wearing the tools, which really helps with balls in the dirt. You don't need great defense at first though, you need someone that is not a liability, and a SS 2B combo that throw well.

Daver
06-01-2008, 08:13 PM
I thought he had minor league experience in the OF but you know more than me.

Not even an inning.

It's Time
06-01-2008, 08:16 PM
Yeesh! It honestly sounds like KW was sending a message to Ozzie that OZZIE is the one who should be worried about job security.

The: "It's never good to throw your boss under the bus" and the: "I expect more from the guy leading the team on the field" comments do not bode well for Ozzie at all.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:17 PM
Tell me how fast we can expect the turnaround after Walker is fired. Tell me why we don't have a leadoff man. Tell me how we won a WS by losing power and running and wound up with a bunch of power hitters who can't run 3 years later.

Can PK be traded if he approves? You'ld get something for him. Can Thome be kept on the bench enough so future contracts don't kick in? Can Crede be traded for anything that can run even if it means Uribe plays 3B? Can Dye play a little 1B? That might be his spot. You've got a closer who would get you big talent and a deep bullpen which might contain a replacement. No, I won't apologize for that one.

I don't want to see this kind of pitching go to waste after last year's pitching was so bad.
Walker- It can't get any worse.
Leadoff- We had one but he got hurt and Quentin has been a beast.
PK- Value is about as low as it has ever been.
Thome- If you want him out of lineup, trade him or release him.
Crede- He, like PK doesn't have much value.
Uribe/3B- Hopefully he won't be here come Tuesday.
DYe/1B- Only if PK and Swisher aren't in the lineup.
Jenks- You need to get such a rediculous return where saying no should cost someone their job.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:19 PM
Hard to say, I doubt it, Paul spent a lot of time wearing the tools, which really helps with balls in the dirt. You don't need great defense at first though, you need someone that is not a liability, and a SS 2B combo that throw well.
We definately have that aspect.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 08:20 PM
Hard to say, I doubt it, Paul spent a lot of time wearing the tools, which really helps with balls in the dirt. You don't need great defense at first though, you need someone that is not a liability, and a SS 2B combo that throw well.

I know you will let me know if I exhaust my quota of questions. :smile:

Do you see Fields' best "position" to be DH?

Shifting gears here: Assuming for a second that Cabrera and Uribe are gone in 2009, do you think Ramirez and Richar would be a good defensive pairing at SS/2B; turning the double play, throwing well to first, good range, etc.?

QCIASOXFAN
06-01-2008, 08:21 PM
Yeesh! It honestly sounds like KW was sending a message to Ozzie that OZZIE is the one who should be worried about job security.

The: "It's never good to throw your boss under the bus" and the: "I expect more from the guy leading the team on the field" comments do not bold well for Ozzie at all.
I don't think this will end well... for somebody, not sure who yet though.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:22 PM
I know you will let me know if I exhaust my quota of questions. :smile:

Do you see Fields' best "position" to be DH?

Shifting gears here: Assuming for a second that Cabrera and Uribe are gone in 2009, do you think Ramirez and Richar would be a good defensive pairing at SS/2B; turning the double play, throwing well to first, good range, etc.?
Not saying they would be as good both defensively and offensively but I can picture a poor mans Alomar/Vizquel after a couple of seasons of working together.

Sockinchisox
06-01-2008, 08:22 PM
This could get ugly in a hurry.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:24 PM
As far as the Ozzie/KW beef right now I think its essentially 2 passionate guys who see what can be done this season and are frustrated to see what the offense is doing. The pitching has been good enough where an average offense is sitting with no more than 15 losses.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2008, 08:25 PM
Tuesday is going to be interesting that's for sure.

Sounds to me like both Kenny and Ozzie have been worn thin but the struggles of this club offensively for the past year and a half and that both are frustrated because they haven't been able to change things despite the best efforts of both.

It's not supposed to be easy to hit a baseball, but it's also not supposed to be as hard as the Sox are making things.

And unfortunately as Kenny said, the options are limited by the calendar and a poor minor league system.

Lip

Daver
06-01-2008, 08:26 PM
I know you will let me know if I exhaust my quota of questions. :smile:

Do you see Fields' best "position" to be DH?

Shifting gears here: Assuming for a second that Cabrera and Uribe are gone in 2009, do you think Ramirez and Richar would be a good defensive pairing at SS/2B; turning the double play, throwing well to first, good range, etc.?

His best position right now is 3rd base, he just ain't very good at it, and probably never will be.

I don't see a real bad side to Ramirez and Richar, but I haven't seen enough of either of them to be confident of that.

Brian26
06-01-2008, 08:26 PM
Buddy Bell is in the organization now. I'd ask for his input.

The way this offense is going, I'd stick him at 3rd and let him bat cleanup.

GlassSox
06-01-2008, 08:27 PM
Sounds like poor Uribe is about to get waived again. :tongue:

I'd like to continue to wave (goodbye) to Uribe. :tongue:

fquaye149
06-01-2008, 08:33 PM
We don't need another Pierre debate.

Don't you think the overall lack of team speed and its inability to run the bases well is a problem? If so, what would you do about it? If not, why not?


Team speed is not a problem. Inability to run the bases is.

That can be handled by better coaching, not by acquiring (or promoting) a weak hitting speedster

whitesoxfan
06-01-2008, 08:37 PM
I am so glad Ozzie finally decided to say something. Me (being the idiot that I am) probably would've snapped a couple of weeks ago, before the 8 game winning streak. We have wasted FAR too many amazing pitching performances by our starters because of this garbage offense. There needs to be something done.

To the people who think Walker shouldn't be fired: I understand this is a professional league. I understand that these are professional hitters. But the approach that those said professional hitters have is pretty ridiculous. It's hard NOT to score at least a run when you have runners at 1st and 3rd and nobody out. It's hard not to score a run when you have a runner at 3rd and 1 out. These repeated occurences, along with some of the supposedly "better" hitters in the lineup having averages lower than .215 is reason enough to can his ass. He should be a gone goose by Tuesday, period. End of discussion.

As far as the lineup goes, I can't wait till Crede is gone. Unfortunately, it appears Fields is hurt again, so the official Josh Fields era will have to wait; for now. Let someone else pay for a 3B with his production (and his 10 errors) while we have a 3B in the minors that should easily outproduce what Crede is currently doing. Alexi needs to be in the lineup every single day. I really wouldn't be opposed to seeing Alexi in CF and Richar called up to play 2nd. Heck, I really wouldn't mind Uribe at 2B as long as Alexi is playing. Just get Nick Swisher on the bench, please. If you can find a way to limit the ABs that Thome and Konerko are getting, the better.

I may be overreacting a little bit, but enough is enough. We all want to see the Sox win the division and hopefully do better than that come October. However, a shakeup is needed and I'm glad Ozzie has brought this problem to the forefront. There's no doubt in my mind that if I had just a mediocre offense, we'd be absolutely running away with this division. Like I said, I wish he would've said this sooner, but Ozzie already made a huge lineup change and now we've lost 3 of 4 where our offense looked stagnant in all 3 of those losses.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:38 PM
Team speed is not a problem. Inability to run the bases is.

That can be handled by better coaching, not by acquiring (or promoting) a weak hitting speedster
I'll do you 1 better. Its not so much speed or running the bases its the inability to get runners in when they are on base. Today if I remember correctly we had 1st and 3rd, 0 outs with our 3-4-5 hitters coming up and we had 3 pop-ups go a toal of maybe 250 feet. Pathetic!

hawkjt
06-01-2008, 08:41 PM
Call me crazy but are we not still in first place? I think they should not panic. Home cooking for the next month could make all the difference. If they continue to not hit vs KC and Minny...then maybe fire walker. The warning shot has been fired by Ozzie....players are on notice that walker is on thin ice if they do not pick it up...warm weather, home cooking...time to go,Sox.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 08:42 PM
Call me crazy but are we not still in first place? I think they should not panic. Home cooking for the next month could make all the difference. If they continue to not hit vs KC and Minny...then maybe fire walker. The warning shot has been fired by Ozzie....players are on notice that walker is on thin ice if they do not pick it up...warm weather, home cooking...time to go,Sox.
We're only up by one game now. Twins win tomorrow and it's half a game. We better beat the crap out of the Royals and remind them that they suck.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:43 PM
Call me crazy but are we not still in first place? I think they should not panic. Home cooking for the next month could make all the difference. If they continue to not hit vs KC and Minny...then maybe fire walker. The warning shot has been fired by Ozzie....players are on notice that walker is on thin ice if they do not pick it up...warm weather, home cooking...time to go,Sox.
We are 1 game up, with the pitching we have had we should be about 11 games up right now. When I was younger I was taught a mindset in football, "when they are down, bury them!" Unfortunately we have kept the AL central on life support and its only a matter of time before 1 of the 4 come back to life.

whitesoxfan
06-01-2008, 08:45 PM
Call me crazy but are we not still in first place? I think they should not panic. Home cooking for the next month could make all the difference. If they continue to not hit vs KC and Minny...then maybe fire walker. The warning shot has been fired by Ozzie....players are on notice that walker is on thin ice if they do not pick it up...warm weather, home cooking...time to go,Sox.

You have to make a move now. No more waiting.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 08:45 PM
Team speed is not a problem. Inability to run the bases is.

That can be handled by better coaching, not by acquiring (or promoting) a weak hitting speedster

I agree that good coaching can help. But if your players are just plain slow - and Crede, Paulie, Thome, Dye and AJ are just plain slow - no amount of coaching is going to make/help/teach them to score from second on a single, from first on a double, or go first to third on a single to RF.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:46 PM
I agree that good coaching can help. But if your players are just plain slow - and Crede, Paulie, Thome, Dye and AJ are just plain slow - no amount of coaching is going to make/help/teach them to score from second on a single, from first on a double, or go first to third on a single to RF.
If our pitching was as bad as our hitting Cooper's head would be on a silver platter as well.

Rocky Soprano
06-01-2008, 08:47 PM
As far as the lineup goes, I can't wait till Crede is gone. Unfortunately, it appears Fields is hurt again, so the official Josh Fields era will have to wait; for now. Let someone else pay for a 3B with his production (and his 10 errors) while we have a 3B in the minors that should easily outproduce what Crede is currently doing.

Fields is not even outproducing Crede in AAA, but he will easily do it in the majors? :scratch:

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 08:48 PM
Fields is not even outproducing Crede in AAA, but he will easily do it in the majors? :scratch:
In Fields defense if I remember correctly he has been banged up pretty badly all year.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 08:49 PM
In Fields defense if I remember correctly he has been banged up pretty badly all year.
That's also why we can't bring up Richar if we get rid of Uribe. He's in the same boat as Fields even though he just got back from his own injury.

whitesoxfan
06-01-2008, 08:50 PM
Fields is not even outproducing Crede in AAA, but he will easily do it in the majors? :scratch:

22 homers in about half a season's worth of at-bats? Yeah, I'll take my chances with Fields.

It's all for naught as of now anyway because Fields hasn't played in four days and it appears he's hurt again. But Crede shouldn't be back after this year. Thanks for 2005 and everything you've done Joe, but you're not worth the contract that Borass is going to hand you in the offseason. Take that to the bank.

Vernam
06-01-2008, 08:51 PM
Ah, talent evaluation in the late aughts . . . What a crap shoot. Kenny's worked some miracles, and I don't fault him for not foreseeing what's happened with Thome, Konerko, and Swisher.

The whole concept that guys are "proven hitters" seems barely reliable anymore. In the past couple of years, we've seen serious droughts from this team before. But back then, there'd be outbursts of impressive power between the droughts. Now, for whatever reason, no more outbursts, and the droughts are worse. MUCH worse.

You could say it's a function of age, and that's part of it. Remember when 35 was considered ancient? Maybe it is again. After all.

And then you've got a guy like Swisher, who isn't old by any standard, yet is on a path this year to dramatically undershoot his "proven" numbers. I sure don't know what to make of that.

Does anyone here honestly expect Thome to return to form? Maybe Konerko. Maybe Swisher. But I've never seen so many flat-out horrible at bats from a group of "proven" guys like that.

I can hardly blame Ozzie for going off. It's about time someone with the team reflected the disgust that a lot of us have been feeling. You've got three significant cogs of our offense who are nowhere close to their career numbers, and several others who are flying under the radar only because those three are so off-the-charts terrible. I don't expect any explanation from those guys -- **** happens, and for whatever embarrassment they might feel about getting paid millions to bat .200, they're not likely to issue any detailed mea culpas.

But I think Ozzie's smart enough to pretty much see the situation now for what it is. Age not withstanding, "proven hitters" don't suddenly fall off the face of the Earth like this. But they have, and it's time to move on.

He knows this pitching staff is good enough to win the division with just a little professional production, say, with a runner on third with less than two outs. That's not asking too much. Doesn't have much to do, in fact, with the ability to hit 30 or 40 homers. None of these guys is capable of hitting that this year, so how about if we scrounge around to find a couple who can put the ball in play with a man on third? Is that really such a tall order?

Vernam

kittle42
06-01-2008, 08:53 PM
Yeesh! It honestly sounds like KW was sending a message to Ozzie that OZZIE is the one who should be worried about job security.

The: "It's never good to throw your boss under the bus" and the: "I expect more from the guy leading the team on the field" comments do not bold well for Ozzie at all.

They don't bode well, either.

ktsmith09
06-01-2008, 09:00 PM
This team needs to move on from Thome and Konerko. These two guys have done nothing for 2 months. This isn't the 1st time Konerko has done this kind of thing. I also don't like Konerko's attitude. ("You Win 60, You Lose 60, it's what you do with the other 42 that make a difference") Hey Paulie, how about not conceding 60 games each season. He's a mental midget and he's our Captain, and Sox fans can't get over his 2005 "Heroics". Remember, Dye got the World Series MVP.

You all can sit around and strategize moving A. Ramirez here, trade Crede, etc., but Paulie and Big Jim are the cancers of this team. We have great pitching and two guys hitting .205 as our 5th and 6th hitters. No other team in the major's would accept this, but KW is about 4 months behind the GM's who have a brain. Do you think the Yankees would leave Fields in the Minors after the season he had last year? Would they let PK and JT bat 5th and 6th while they bat .205 all season? Figure it out, or get left in the dust by Major League teams who know how to win and utilize their personnel

itsnotrequired
06-01-2008, 09:02 PM
This team needs to move on from Thome and Konerko. These two guys have done nothing for 2 months. This isn't the 1st time Konerko has done this kind of thing. I also don't like Konerko's attitude. ("You Win 60, You Lose 60, it's what you do with the other 42 that make a difference") Hey Paulie, how about not conceding 60 games each season. He's a mental midget and he's our Captain, and Sox fans can't get over his 2005 "Heroics". Remember, Dye got the World Series MVP.

You all can sit around and strategize moving A. Ramirez here, trade Crede, etc., but Paulie and Big Jim are the cancers of this team. We have great pitching and two guys hitting .205 as our 5th and 6th hitters. No other team in the major's would accept this, but KW is about 4 months behind the GM's who have a brain. Do you think the Yankees would leave Fields in the Minors after the season he had last year? Would they let PK and JT bat 5th and 6th while they bat .205 all season? Figure it out, or get left in the dust by Major League teams who know how to win and utilize their personnel

Read it and weep.

*plays Alice in Chains "Angry Chair" on guitar*

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:03 PM
A 3-4 of Quentin and Bonds would look awesome right now.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 09:04 PM
This team needs to move on from Thome and Konerko. These two guys have done nothing for 2 months. This isn't the 1st time Konerko has done this kind of thing. I also don't like Konerko's attitude. ("You Win 60, You Lose 60, it's what you do with the other 42 that make a difference") Hey Paulie, how about not conceding 60 games each season. He's a mental midget and he's our Captain, and Sox fans can't get over his 2005 "Heroics". Remember, Dye got the World Series MVP.

You all can sit around and strategize moving A. Ramirez here, trade Crede, etc., but Paulie and Big Jim are the cancers of this team. We have great pitching and two guys hitting .205 as our 5th and 6th hitters. No other team in the major's would accept this, but KW is about 4 months behind the GM's who have a brain. Do you think the Yankees would leave Fields in the Minors after the season he had last year? Would they let PK and JT bat 5th and 6th while they bat .205 all season? Figure it out, or get left in the dust by Major League teams who know how to win and utilize their personnel
What an insightful first post.:rolleyes:

http://www.devotedfansnetwork.com/forums/images/smilies/welcome.gif

Daver
06-01-2008, 09:09 PM
This team needs to move on from Thome and Konerko. These two guys have done nothing for 2 months. This isn't the 1st time Konerko has done this kind of thing. I also don't like Konerko's attitude. ("You Win 60, You Lose 60, it's what you do with the other 42 that make a difference") Hey Paulie, how about not conceding 60 games each season. He's a mental midget and he's our Captain, and Sox fans can't get over his 2005 "Heroics". Remember, Dye got the World Series MVP.

You all can sit around and strategize moving A. Ramirez here, trade Crede, etc., but Paulie and Big Jim are the cancers of this team. We have great pitching and two guys hitting .205 as our 5th and 6th hitters. No other team in the major's would accept this, but KW is about 4 months behind the GM's who have a brain. Do you think the Yankees would leave Fields in the Minors after the season he had last year? Would they let PK and JT bat 5th and 6th while they bat .205 all season? Figure it out, or get left in the dust by Major League teams who know how to win and utilize their personnel

Now there is some fine insight.


Can someone tell me why there is a disproportional percentage of Sox fans that are insane?

ktsmith09
06-01-2008, 09:10 PM
Why haven't the mental midgets considered moving Konerko to another team and having Fields play first, other teams have players play 1st, 3rd, Catcher. Other teams with management with 1/2 a brain. KW's biggest problem is he just can't utilize his personnel. HE CAN'T DO IT. He got lucky in 2005, and then turned a potential dynasty into a joke. He said over and over again that the 2005 Sox couldn't win the World Series in 2006. WHY THE H*** not? They were only a year older. So, KW trades Rowand, retools the team with players that don't perform, and the franchise tanks. KW is an idiot and he should have been gone after '06. Let Ozzie have player/ personnel control and send KW packing. I can't wait to get this joke of a GM out of town. Of course the owner is an idiot too, so KW will probably be here another 10 years.

itsnotrequired
06-01-2008, 09:12 PM
Why haven't the mental midgets considered moving Konerko to another team and having Fields play first, other teams have players play 1st, 3rd, Catcher. Other teams with management with 1/2 a brain. KW's biggest problem is he just can't utilize his personnel. HE CAN'T DO IT. He got lucky in 2005, and then turned a potential dynasty into a joke. He said over and over again that the 2005 Sox couldn't win the World Series in 2006. WHY THE H*** not? They were only a year older. So, KW trades Rowand, retools the team with players that don't perform, and the franchise tanks. KW is an idiot and he should have been gone after '06. Let Ozzie have player/ personnel control and send KW packing. I can't wait to get this joke of a GM out of town. Of course the owner is an idiot too, so KW will probably be here another 10 years.

HATE THE MEDIA

Daver
06-01-2008, 09:12 PM
Why haven't the mental midgets considered moving Konerko to another team and having Fields play first, other teams have players play 1st, 3rd, Catcher. Other teams with management with 1/2 a brain. KW's biggest problem is he just can't utilize his personnel. HE CAN'T DO IT. He got lucky in 2005, and then turned a potential dynasty into a joke. He said over and over again that the 2005 Sox couldn't win the World Series in 2006. WHY THE H*** not? They were only a year older. So, KW trades Rowand, retools the team with players that don't perform, and the franchise tanks. KW is an idiot and he should have been gone after '06. Let Ozzie have player/ personnel control and send KW packing. I can't wait to get this joke of a GM out of town. Of course the owner is an idiot too, so KW will probably be here another 10 years.

You can come back when you prove to be sane.

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:13 PM
Why haven't the mental midgets considered moving Konerko to another team and having Fields play first, other teams have players play 1st, 3rd, Catcher. Other teams with management with 1/2 a brain. KW's biggest problem is he just can't utilize his personnel. HE CAN'T DO IT. He got lucky in 2005, and then turned a potential dynasty into a joke. He said over and over again that the 2005 Sox couldn't win the World Series in 2006. WHY THE H*** not? They were only a year older. So, KW trades Rowand, retools the team with players that don't perform, and the franchise tanks. KW is an idiot and he should have been gone after '06. Let Ozzie have player/ personnel control and send KW packing. I can't wait to get this joke of a GM out of town. Of course the owner is an idiot too, so KW will probably be here another 10 years.
PK has 5/10 protection we cant move him without his permission per labor agreement. The 05 team couldn't win in 06 for the simple reason if you aren't making your team better you are getting worse. Standing pat never works.

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 09:14 PM
Why haven't the mental midgets considered moving Konerko to another team and having Fields play first, other teams have players play 1st, 3rd, Catcher. Other teams with management with 1/2 a brain. KW's biggest problem is he just can't utilize his personnel. HE CAN'T DO IT. He got lucky in 2005, and then turned a potential dynasty into a joke. He said over and over again that the 2005 Sox couldn't win the World Series in 2006. WHY THE H*** not? They were only a year older. So, KW trades Rowand, retools the team with players that don't perform, and the franchise tanks. KW is an idiot and he should have been gone after '06. Let Ozzie have player/ personnel control and send KW packing. I can't wait to get this joke of a GM out of town. Of course the owner is an idiot too, so KW will probably be here another 10 years.
Do you know how tough it is to build a dynasty in baseball these days? Contracts get more bloated with every passing year, so it's almost impossible to keep good teams intact for that long unless you have the money to spend. Only the Red Sox have won the World Series twice this decade, and they have a ****load of money. If you honestly think KW went Krause after we won the WS, you're confusing yourself.

itsnotrequired
06-01-2008, 09:16 PM
PK has 5/10 protection we cant move him without his permission per labor agreement.

What does that have to do with anything? I just traded him last week on XBox for Troy Glaus and a ten foot tall mechanical Ron Kittle.

:angry:

Cuck the Fubs
06-01-2008, 09:17 PM
Wow........loads of insight here.

Tell ya what's gonna happen.............not a damn thing.

These are the guys we got.......who the hell is going to want the "dead wieght".....nobody that who.

Ozzie needs to start making some better choices, and he's got to pray that any one of the 3 guys hovering around .200 turn it on real soon.

As bad as the offense is I think that if any one of the three pick it up we'll be okay.

I'm just glad somebody exploded finally, because this offense has been pretty much hor**** shince July 2006:angry:

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:17 PM
What does that have to do with anything? I just traded him last week on XBox for Troy Glaus and a ten foot tall mechanical Ron Kittle.

:angry:
Did XBOX Barry Bonds give Ronny an autograph?:D:

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:19 PM
Wow........loads of insight here.

Tell ya what's gonna happen.............not a damn thing.

These are the guys we got.......who the hell is going to want the "dead wieght".....nobody that who.

Ozzie needs to start making some better choices, and he's got to pray that any one of the 3 guys hovering around .200 turn it on real soon.

As bad as the offense is I think that if any one of the three pick it up we'll be okay.

I'm just glad somebody exploded finally, because this offense has been pretty much hor**** shince July 2006:angry:
Ya but what better choices are there? The pitching has dominated. If we were in the NL I can understand PH decisions, who bats ahead of the pitcher and double switches. However in the AL lineups are pretty cut and dry.

itsnotrequired
06-01-2008, 09:19 PM
Did XBOX Barry Bonds give Ronny an autograph?:D:

That isn't until the 2009 version. Do you even know anything about baseball?

:eatingahamsandwich:

thomas35forever
06-01-2008, 09:23 PM
That isn't until the 2009 version. Do you even know anything about baseball?

:eatingahamsandwich:
I don't why, but that part made me laugh.:roflmao:

Chicken Dinner
06-01-2008, 09:25 PM
Wow........loads of insight here.

Tell ya what's gonna happen.............not a damn thing.

These are the guys we got.......who the hell is going to want the "dead wieght".....nobody that who.

Ozzie needs to start making some better choices, and he's got to pray that any one of the 3 guys hovering around .200 turn it on real soon.

As bad as the offense is I think that if any one of the three pick it up we'll be okay.


Agreed, it's just another Ozzie rant. There is no magic cure for what's happening, especially in Charlotte. Mix the lineup again and let Swish ride the pine for a week. A nice helping of KC, COL, and PIT at home could be the answer. IF the pitching continues, I think the team will be OK.

Cuck the Fubs
06-01-2008, 09:25 PM
Ya but what better choices are there? The pitching has dominated. If we were in the NL I can understand PH decisions, who bats ahead of the pitcher and double switches. However in the AL lineups are pretty cut and dry.

Nothing major, he's just missed on some minor moves that maybe could have turned into wins.

Getting Anderson in of defense as needed, and today leaving Quentin on the bench was really mind blowing.

Swisher is really struggling badly right now, Carlos should have hit for him. I'm sure that maybe Ozzie felt doing that would totally screw up Swish, but honestly how much worse can he really get at this point.

I should have been a little more clear on what I meant....and I personally love Ozzie & Kenny. Both of these guys have a tremendouse passion for the White Sox, just like us.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2008, 09:26 PM
Based on Ozzie's comments to the mainstream media the past two years it seems to me there is a "disconnect" between the type of team he wants and the type of team Kenny wants.

I base that on the published remarks in the summer of 2007 regarding wanting to play more Ozzie-Ball but not having the players who can do it, as well as the "I won't lie to the fans" remark.

Then this off season on at least three different occasions he was quoted as saying "I'm tired of the strike outs and I'm tired of waiting for a home run to score runs."

Ozzie can only work with what he is given.

I can honestly see one of the two individuals leaving the organization at the end of the year if common ground isn't found.

Ultimately JR may have to make the call on who stays and who goes.

Lip

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:27 PM
Nothing major, he's just missed on some minor moves that maybe could have turned into wins.

Getting Anderson in of defense as needed, and today leaving Quentin on the bench was really mind blowing.

Swisher is really struggling badly right now, Carlos should have hit for him. I'm sure that maybe Ozzie felt doing that would totally screw up Swish, but honestly how much worse can he really get at this point.

I should have been a little more clear on what I meant....and I personally love Ozzie & Kenny. Both of these guys have a tremendouse passion for the White Sox, just like us.
Ya I see what your saying. I think tCQ was on a no matter what your off today and tommorow cause your playin everyday til the All Star Break.

Cuck the Fubs
06-01-2008, 09:28 PM
Agreed, it's just another Ozzie rant. There is no magic cure for what's happening, especially in Charlotte. Mix the lineup again and let Swish ride the pine for a week. A nice helping of KC, COL, and PIT at home could be the answer. IF the pitching continues, I think the team will be OK.

The heaping of teams upcoming may actually worsen the problem.....if our offense pours it on these lower tier teams, Ozzie & Kenny might be fooled into thinking the offense is okay, when in actuallity, it clearly is not.

On the other hand, it is possible that the struggling guys get a big confidence boost by feasting off some bad pitching.....but god help us all if those teams come into the Cell and shut us down.:whiner:

getonbckthr
06-01-2008, 09:28 PM
Agreed, it's just another Ozzie rant. There is no magic cure for what's happening, especially in Charlotte. Mix the lineup again and let Swish ride the pine for a week. A nice helping of KC, COL, and PIT at home could be the answer. IF the pitching continues, I think the team will be OK.
Don't sleep on Pittsburgh.
Based on Ozzie's comments to the mainstream media the past two years it seems to me there is a "disconnect" between the type of team he wants and the type of team Kenny wants.

I base that on the published remarks in the summer of 2007 regarding wanting to play more Ozzie-Ball but not having the players who can do it, as well as the "I won't lie to the fans" remark.

Then this off season on at least three different occasions he was quoted as saying "I'm tired of the strike outs and I'm tired of waiting for a home run to score runs."

Ozzie can only work with what he is given.

I can honestly see one of the two individuals leaving the organization at the end of the year if common ground isn't found.

Ultimately JR may have to make the call on who stays and who goes.

Lip
Ozzie vision, I believe, is the correct vision in the post enhancer age of baseball.

Cuck the Fubs
06-01-2008, 09:31 PM
Ya I see what your saying. I think tCQ was on a no matter what your off today and tommorow cause your playin everyday til the All Star Break.

Man I sure hope that's the plan.

Lip, I think you hit the nail on the head with what is coming at the end of the season.

If I had to choose tween Ozzie Ball and Kenny Ball, I myself, would pick Ozzie ball every single time.

The White Sox remind me of my softball team, without the long ball we get smoked by teams that single us to death. Come to think of it, I may want to fire myself as I am the GM & Manager of the team:redface:

GlassSox
06-01-2008, 09:39 PM
......Come to think of it, I may want to fire myself as I am the GM & Manager of the team:redface:

Want to try being a big league hitting coach? :cool:

TomBradley72
06-01-2008, 09:40 PM
Being "slow" and being unable to score from second on a single or go first to third on a ball hit to RF are entirely different issues.

From what I've seen this year...in most cases..they can't.

The problem these base cloggers cause is compounded by not having ANY speed threats in the line up and is compounded again by the inability to get bunts down, hit to the right side, etc.

Cuck the Fubs
06-01-2008, 09:41 PM
Want to try being a big league hitting coach? :cool:

Does it pay well? :redneck

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2008, 09:43 PM
Does it pay well? :redneck

It's not as hard as it looks. All you have to do is play cards, refill the sunflower seed bucket, and wash the manager's car.

Chicken Dinner
06-01-2008, 09:44 PM
From what I've seen this year...in most cases..they can't.

The problem these base cloggers cause is compounded by not having ANY speed threats in the line up and is compounded again by the inability to get bunts down, hit to the right side, etc.

Even if the base cloggers get on, there's K's, pop outs, and GIDP's.

gobears1987
06-01-2008, 09:45 PM
The plan right now would be to have him replace Swisher.

Move Ramirez to CF, and bring Richar in to play 2B. I'd say it's worth a try at this point, but I'd still like to see Richar get more AB's at Charlotte.

I like this idea. Or we can move Ramirez to RF and DH Dye. I'm no fan of Anderson, but he'd be better in the line-up than either Swisher or Thome right now. He adds decent speed and his crappy batting average still beats either of the pair. Plus he of course has his glove that FOBAs reminds us of.

Then again I'm only being an armchair manager here and don't see the players day in and day out like Ozzie does so my ideas mean nothing.

Noneck
06-01-2008, 09:46 PM
Ozzie can only work with what he is given.

I can honestly see one of the two individuals leaving the organization at the end of the year if common ground isn't found.

Ultimately JR may have to make the call on who stays and who goes.

Lip

This is a tough situation. I don't see what Williams could have done after 2007 to make the team the way Ozzie supposedly wants it. And I don't see what Ozzie could do with the type of team he has that he hasn't already tried. If this is truly a deep rift between the two, I don't see common ground being reached between the two.

GlassSox
06-01-2008, 09:47 PM
It's not as hard as it looks. All you have to do is play cards, refill the sunflower seed bucket, and wash the manager's car.

Wash the manager's car.....maybe he should should try some WAX ON - WAX OFF.

gobears1987
06-01-2008, 09:47 PM
Reminds me of a scene in The Simpsons Movie.
D'oh

PeoriaSoxFan
06-01-2008, 09:48 PM
I haven't read this whole thread due to its length, so I apologize if I am belaboring old points, but....

1. Why in the hell wasn't TCQ playing today? Our solution to fix the offense is to give our best hitter a day off?? At least pinch hit him for Swisher.

2. Understatement here...I sure hope Swisher starts hitting! He is wearing very thin on me. I don't want to give up on him, but I am sick to death of him. His fiery attitude and other anticss are just great, when he can back them up.

3. I love Guillen as our manager, despite him royally ticking me off by giving TCQ a day off today, in front of a team off day. With that said, I wish the guy would be quiet. There is no doubt he is going to eventually get himself fired with his mouth. I am not sure he said it quite right today and I am not sure he meant to call KW out with what he said, but who can blame him? We are all sick of this offense. We are in 1st place, but they sure haven't been much fun to watch of late, with this routine of leaving runners in scoring position, with less than 2 outs.

4. KW is obviously as big a hot head as Ozzie. He should do some self refection right now and start losing his blind faith in all of these players. There are some definite trends developing that don't look good. Some of his decisions over the past year are scary right now.

5. We are in 1st place at the end of May and we haven't really played to our potential. With the pitching we have had, we should be 5+ games better in my opinion. How tough was it to not win 1 of the last 3? But, we did play the best team in the AL who is red hot at home. Lets hope this ship rights itself and doesn't sink. Maybe the Royals are just what we need right now.

fquaye149
06-01-2008, 09:49 PM
I agree that good coaching can help. But if your players are just plain slow - and Crede, Paulie, Thome, Dye and AJ are just plain slow - no amount of coaching is going to make/help/teach them to score from second on a single, from first on a double, or go first to third on a single to RF.


AJ and Dye already do.

Crede can if he becomes a better baserunner.

Konerko and Thome never will, but that's 2 players out of 9 who can't--no worse than any team in baseball

Vernam
06-01-2008, 09:50 PM
Ozzie vision, I believe, is the correct vision in the post enhancer age of baseball.Today will be remembered as the day when Ozzie revealed that he, in fact, has been a Dark Cloud all along. :wink:

Vernam

PeoriaSoxFan
06-01-2008, 09:52 PM
This is a tough situation. I don't see what Williams could have done after 2007 to make the team the way Ozzie supposedly wants it. And I don't see what Ozzie could do with the type of team he has that he hasn't already tried. If this is truly a deep rift between the two, I don't see common ground being reached between the two.

Good points. I hope there isn't a rift. I don't think Ozzie was really trying to call him out with what he said. I wish his message meant..fire Greg Walker. As far as what KW could have done, I wish he could have traded PK and signed Rowand vs. trading for Swisher. Hindsight is 20-20 though.

kittle42
06-01-2008, 09:53 PM
What does that have to do with anything? I just traded him last week on XBox for Troy Glaus and a ten foot tall mechanical Ron Kittle.

:angry:

That would be ten feet of awesomeness.

HebrewHammer
06-01-2008, 09:54 PM
It sounds like Greg Walker forgot to bring the potato chips to the poker game. Any guess on a possible replacement? I hear Ivan Calderon doesn't go anywhere without his pringles.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 09:58 PM
It sounds like Greg Walker forgot to bring the potato chips to the poker game. Any guess on a possible replacement? I hear Ivan Calderon doesn't go anywhere without his pringles.
Walt Hriniak.

If not, move Baines to hitting coach and hire Carl Everett as 1B coach.

Daver
06-01-2008, 10:02 PM
Walt Hriniak.

If not, move Baines to hitting coach and hire Carl Everett as 1B coach.


You just made the problem worse. Swisher might be the only person in this lineup with the patience to implement Walt's approach.

They'd be better off bringing back Von Joshua.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2008, 10:08 PM
Hebrew:

Maybe you didn't know this but Ivan Calderon was murdered in Puerto Rico around Christmas a few years ago.

I know you were just trying to be funny but still...

Lip

jabrch
06-01-2008, 10:09 PM
1) Walker fired
2) Uribe released or traded he is useless now.
3) ....

I'm not sure either of those moves would have any impact.

Chicken Dinner
06-01-2008, 10:15 PM
http://www.homevideos.com/freezeframes33/kellysheros89-b.jpg
All these negative waves man!

soxwon
06-01-2008, 10:15 PM
Leave everything alone, we are in first place with Kc coming in.
All problems will solve themselvs. on our way to the Title Folks.

WhiteSox5187
06-01-2008, 10:16 PM
Well, to me it seems like Ozzie just let off a rant that said "We need some help on this team." And Kenny said "No you don't." I don't think any changes will be made. It has been said before, but as constructed this is a very one dimensional offensive team. One dimensional teams tend to struggle.

TheOldRoman
06-01-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm not sure either of those moves would have any impact.Well, then we have to do them anyway and take that chance. Regardless of anything else, Walker is not getting results as a hitting coach. Anyone who performs that poorly will be fired. He ain't helping. Look at the stats, his replacement couldn't possibly be worse. There is no way our hitters could perform worse than they have.

WhiteSox5187
06-01-2008, 10:18 PM
This is a tough situation. I don't see what Williams could have done after 2007 to make the team the way Ozzie supposedly wants it. And I don't see what Ozzie could do with the type of team he has that he hasn't already tried. If this is truly a deep rift between the two, I don't see common ground being reached between the two.

Ozzie loves teams built around speed and defense, Kenny did go out and get him a guy like that at short and Alexei. But other wise he continued to stock up on the power hitters like Swisher...if it reaches the point where JR has to choose between the two, Ozzie is gone.

guillen4life13
06-01-2008, 10:19 PM
It sounds like Greg Walker forgot to bring the potato chips to the poker game. Any guess on a possible replacement? I hear Ivan Calderon doesn't go anywhere without his pringles.


I vote for Walt Hriniak or Rickey Henderson.

Viva Medias B's
06-01-2008, 10:20 PM
I vote for Da Coach.

fquaye149
06-01-2008, 10:20 PM
I'm not sure either of those moves would have any impact.


they certainly couldn't hurt

FedEx227
06-01-2008, 10:21 PM
Can people drop this first place stuff?

We get it, yes we're in first place. But this team is VERY, very flawed and if you can't see that, then you're hopeless. We're in first place because of amazing pitching, we haven't allowed ourselves any breathing room if Danks and Floyd have 2-3 weeks of bad outings.

Yeah, maybe we can skate along this year, get to the playoffs as a result of a down division and get our asses handed to us first round, then next year we have a repeat of 2007.

This team is flawed and being in first place doesn't justify allowing a team to continue to be as severely flawed as we are.

WhiteSox5187
06-01-2008, 10:24 PM
Can people drop this first place stuff?

We get it, yes we're in first place. But this team is VERY, very flawed and if you can't see that, then you're hopeless. We're in first place because of amazing pitching, we haven't allowed ourselves any breathing room if Danks and Floyd have 2-3 weeks of bad outings.

Yeah, maybe we can skate along this year, get to the playoffs as a result of a down division and get our asses handed to us first round, then next year we have a repeat of 2007.

This team is flawed and being in first place doesn't justify allowing a team to continue to be as severely flawed as we are.
Dark cloud!!!

RadioheadRocks
06-01-2008, 10:24 PM
Can people drop this first place stuff?

We get it, yes we're in first place. But this team is VERY, very flawed and if you can't see that, then you're hopeless. We're in first place because of amazing pitching, we haven't allowed ourselves any breathing room if Danks and Floyd have 2-3 weeks of bad outings.

Yeah, maybe we can skate along this year, get to the playoffs as a result of a down division and get our asses handed to us first round, then next year we have a repeat of 2007.

This team is flawed and being in first place doesn't justify allowing a team to continue to be as severely flawed as we are.

Amen!

Noneck
06-01-2008, 10:24 PM
Ozzie loves teams built around speed and defense, Kenny did go out and get him a guy like that at short and Alexei. But other wise he continued to stock up on the power hitters like Swisher...if it reaches the point where JR has to choose between the two, Ozzie is gone.
"Like Swisher" or just Swisher?

TheOldRoman
06-01-2008, 10:26 PM
Well, to me it seems like Ozzie just let off a rant that said "We need some help on this team." And Kenny said "No you don't." I don't think any changes will be made. It has been said before, but as constructed this is a very one dimensional offensive team. One dimensional teams tend to struggle.No. Ozzie said Kenny needs to make changes, and Kenny said "I can't magically call a GM and force him to trade me all-star players. It is June 1, and no team is selling yet. This team is extremely talented, but has been under-performing. I am not going to fire Greg Walker for you. If you want him gone, you do it."

Chicken Dinner
06-01-2008, 10:27 PM
Can people drop this first place stuff?

We get it, yes we're in first place. But this team is VERY, very flawed and if you can't see that, then you're hopeless. We're in first place because of amazing pitching, we haven't allowed ourselves any breathing room if Danks and Floyd have 2-3 weeks of bad outings.

Yeah, maybe we can skate along this year, get to the playoffs as a result of a down division and get our asses handed to us first round, then next year we have a repeat of 2007.

This team is flawed and being in first place doesn't justify allowing a team to continue to be as severely flawed as we are.

And what team doesn't have flaws? It's easy to identify problems, whats the solution?

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 10:29 PM
You just made the problem worse. Swisher might be the only person in this lineup with the patience to implement Walt's approach.

That's an interesting take on it. I'm thinking a guy like Hriniak would teach/preach/encourage the hitters to be more patient and go with the pitch. You're thinking is that most of these hitters are not able to do it if they tried.

I don't know which would turn out to be the case but at this point I wouldn't mind finding out. I definitely don't see how it could get much worse.

Viva Medias B's
06-01-2008, 10:29 PM
In an Ozzie-Kenny power struggle, who survives?

KyWhiSoxFan
06-01-2008, 10:29 PM
Today will be remembered as the day when Ozzie revealed that he, in fact, has been a Dark Cloud all along. :wink:

Vernam

I wonder what username Ozzie has been posting under in these threads!

voodoochile
06-01-2008, 10:30 PM
In an Ozzie-Kenny power struggle, who survives?

:reinsy
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry..."

WhiteSox5187
06-01-2008, 10:31 PM
In an Ozzie-Kenny power struggle, who survives?

Kenny, easily. Kenny would have to kill a member of JR's family before he fires him...JR dumped Ozzie once before, he'd do it again.

Daver
06-01-2008, 10:32 PM
That's an interesting take on it. I'm thinking a guy like Hriniak would teach/preach/encourage the hitters to be more patient and go with the pitch. You're thinking is that most of these hitters are not able to do it if they tried.

I don't know which would turn out to be the case but at this point I wouldn't mind finding out. I definitely don't see how it could get much worse.

My thinking is you are not going to force veteran players to change their routine, that is not a hitting coaches job.

DickAllen72
06-01-2008, 10:37 PM
My thinking is you are not going to force veteran players to change their routine, that is not a hitting coaches job.
I hear what you're saying and I agree to a point. However it seems as if the Sox have guys who are stuggling that have had success in the past when they have cut down on their swings and went to the opposite field/up the middle. Konerko, Crede, and Uribe for example have had success in the past with this approach. In fact, Uribe hit very well in the latter half of '05 after working with Hriniak.

AJ has shown the ability to use this approach as well and as you stated Swisher is certainly able to follow this approach.

fquaye149
06-01-2008, 10:38 PM
:reinsy
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry..."
what happens when he's angry? does he cell sorry sell?