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doublem23
05-28-2008, 02:18 PM
Won 2 of 3. Now let's get the hell out of there.

:bandance:

thomas35forever
05-28-2008, 02:18 PM
Celebrate a series win over the Tribe.:bandance:

kevingrt
05-28-2008, 02:19 PM
That series is OVAH!!!

Great series win on the road. Big clutch hitting today. Brilliant win. Nice job getting out of a jam by bobby. Alexei played his arse off today as well!

hi im skot
05-28-2008, 02:19 PM
Huge.

mccoydp
05-28-2008, 02:19 PM
I hate the Toons.

Thanks for a White Sox winner on my birthday!

:winner:

:gulp:

October26
05-28-2008, 02:20 PM
Phew! That was a nervous ending there in the 9th inning but Bad Bobby Jenks got it done! We have a great closer who is not afraid to pitch to anybody. Very happy about this Sox win and the Sox winning this series against the Indians!:bandance:

The Immigrant
05-28-2008, 02:20 PM
That was a huge win after last night's debacle. It's about time the offense picked up a starting pitcher.

MarySwiss
05-28-2008, 02:21 PM
I hate the Toons.

Thanks for a White Sox winner on my birthday!

:winner:

:gulp:

Happy birthday! And way to go, Sox!!!

sox1970
05-28-2008, 02:21 PM
Big series win going to Tampa. Now let's knock them down a notch too.

jabrch
05-28-2008, 02:21 PM
5 of 6 from Cleveland in a week and change

Foulke You
05-28-2008, 02:21 PM
Big win today. You don't want to go 1W-2L going into the red hot D-Rays house for 4 games.

October26
05-28-2008, 02:21 PM
I hate the Toons.

Thanks for a White Sox winner on my birthday!

:winner:

:gulp:


:happybday

ElevenUp
05-28-2008, 02:21 PM
Nice to see a starter get a win when he didn't have his best stuff.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 02:22 PM
:wh1tesox00

RedHeadPaleHoser
05-28-2008, 02:22 PM
Whew....take the soap opera to Tampa Bay.

kevingrt
05-28-2008, 02:22 PM
By the way can you imagine this thread if Bobby would have given up a base hit to Martinez with first base open? Holy crap this place would have exploded.

WhiteSox5187
05-28-2008, 02:22 PM
That was a pretty ugly looking series. But I'll take two out of three EVERYTIME! We have a real big series coming up against Tampa. Taking three out of four there would be huge and might convince me that this team is for real!!! :cool:

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 02:22 PM
Nice team win. Lots of contributors. On to Tampa to expose the pretenders...

:winner

:supernana:

:)

The Milkman
05-28-2008, 02:23 PM
Going to be upset when Uribe comes back...you know Alexei's going back to the pine.

MushMouth
05-28-2008, 02:23 PM
Here we come Rays!

Squish the fish!

VeeckAsInWreck
05-28-2008, 02:24 PM
Whew....take the soap opera to Tampa Bay.

I have the title already! "Rays Of Our Lives"

Chez
05-28-2008, 02:24 PM
Let's burst Tampa's bubble.

ondafarm
05-28-2008, 02:24 PM
I wonder if Jenks can pitch well without putting runners on.

jabrch
05-28-2008, 02:24 PM
By the way can you imagine this thread if Bobby would have given up a base hit to Martinez with first base open? Holy crap this place would have exploded.


Water and vinegar would abound!!!!!

Cuck the Fubs
05-28-2008, 02:25 PM
nice work............just keep winning every series!:bandance:

doublem23
05-28-2008, 02:25 PM
WHITE SOX 29-23 .558 -
Minnesota 26-25 .510 2
Cleveland 24-29 .453 5
Kansas City 21-31 .404 8
Detroit 21-31 .404 8

jabrch
05-28-2008, 02:25 PM
I wonder if Jenks can pitch well without putting runners on.

He's lost velocity....

October26
05-28-2008, 02:25 PM
I have the title already! "Rays Of Our Lives"

:rolling:

pmck003
05-28-2008, 02:25 PM
2/3 is good - Tampa's home record is 20-9.

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:26 PM
The Sox have now taken six of the last seven meetings with Cleveland. This win is huge for two reasons: 1) It erases the stink from last night's game, and 2) It was done in come-from-behind fashion. This loss is a demoralizing one for the Indians, especially since they blew a golden opportunity in the ninth.

Looking at the other teams in our division, the Tribe is still the club that worries me most. They have starting pitching, so if their offense comes around, they could go on a run. But these are head-to-head games with the Sox that they can never get back, and we have now established a 5.5-game lead on them as a result of the action in the last 10 days or so here.

Great job, Sox! :gulp:

minutia
05-28-2008, 02:27 PM
I hate the Toons.

Thanks for a White Sox winner on my birthday!

:winner:

:gulp:
:happybday

PicktoCLick72
05-28-2008, 02:27 PM
2/3 is good - Tampa's home record is 20-9.

It's a 4 game series.

nysox35
05-28-2008, 02:27 PM
Huge win today, pumped to win the series in Cleveland.

Hopefully we can keep it going and get a series win in Tampa!

sox1970
05-28-2008, 02:27 PM
Let's burst Tampa's bubble.

Interesting--if the playoffs started today, it would be White Sox at Tampa Bay.

3 out of 4 would make a damn good road trip.

Jackson-Danks
Shields-Contreras
Kazmir-Vazquez
Sonnanstine-Buehrle

White City
05-28-2008, 02:28 PM
In the three games in Cleveland, the bullpen pitched 12 innings and gave up zero earned runs, with a WHIP of less than 1.0.

They outscored us by two runs in the series, but ours counted more.

Our starting pitchers have excelled in not giving up the long ball, but Gavin made the mistake pitch today. The offense IMMEDIATELY picked him up, and in general bailed out a pitcher who was merely human for a change. :gulp:

Gotta love where this team is at right now, despite the offensive struggles.

kidmccarthy
05-28-2008, 02:29 PM
Wow, our bullpen flirts with disaster...But then farts on it time and time again. Good series win. Cleveland and Detroit are really digging a big hole. The reason. We are beating them!

doublem23
05-28-2008, 02:29 PM
I wonder if Jenks can pitch well without putting runners on.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?share=2&n1=jenksbo01&year=2007&t=p#141:153:sum

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:30 PM
By the way can you imagine this thread if Bobby would have given up a base hit to Martinez with first base open? Holy crap this place would have exploded.

Yes, it would have. And I admit that I would have ordered Jenks to walk Martinez. But Ozzie is managing, and not me. Thank goodness for that because we would probably suck ass if I were in charge.

I have the feeling Ozzie left the decision to Bobby. If your closer says, "I can get him out," then you put the trust in him. Jenks is a two-time All-Star for a reason.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-28-2008, 02:30 PM
:rolling:

Thanks! I was hoping someone caught that. :cool:

Carolina Kenny
05-28-2008, 02:30 PM
WHITE SOX 29-23 .558 -
Minnesota 26-25 .510 2
Cleveland 24-29 .453 5
Kansas City 21-31 .404 8
Detroit 21-31 .404 8


WE ARE IN FIRST FREAKING PLACE

Bob G
05-28-2008, 02:30 PM
Great win today - it's time to stop all the soap opera BS and focus on playing good White Sox winning baseball!!

doublem23
05-28-2008, 02:31 PM
I have the feeling Ozzie left the decision to Bobby. If your closer says, "I can get him out," then you put the trust in him. Jenks is a two-time All-Star for a reason.

I agree... Did Ozzie come to the mound before Martinez batted? I would hope that was the conversation.

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:32 PM
Interesting--if the playoffs started today, it would be White Sox at Tampa Bay.

3 out of 4 would make a damn good road trip.

Jackson-Danks
Shields-Contreras
Kazmir-Vazquez
Sonnanstine-Buehrle

Who would have thought this series would be between two first-place teams? Should be an interesting weekend.

BadBobbyJenks
05-28-2008, 02:33 PM
Jackson-Danks
Shields-Contreras
Kazmir-Vazquez
Sonnanstine-Buehrle

I was hoping that Javy would be against Kazmir. Scott has been dominating, we our going to need our ace there.
Shields/Contreras another great matchup.

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:33 PM
I agree... Did Ozzie come to the mound before Martinez batted? I would hope that was the conversation.

Yes, Ozzie and AJ visited the mound, and they talked about it.

spawn
05-28-2008, 02:33 PM
Anytime we can escape Cleveland with a series win is a good sign. They've owned the Sox the last couple of years, so it's nice to see them take 5 of 6. On to Tampa!

Oh, and by the way...I think I'll stay out of game threads. Some of you people make me want to put my head through a wall with all of your negativity. If I didn't know any better by the look of some of the posts, you'd think the Sox were on a nine game losing streak. You people are NUTS! And I say that with love in my heart.:redneck

White City
05-28-2008, 02:34 PM
I agree... Did Ozzie come to the mound before Martinez batted? I would hope that was the conversation.

He did.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-28-2008, 02:35 PM
Interesting--if the playoffs started today, it would be White Sox at Tampa Bay.

3 out of 4 would make a damn good road trip.

Jackson-Danks
Shields-Contreras
Kazmir-Vazquez
Sonnanstine-Buehrle

We've already seen Sonnanstine shut down our offense but I'm afraid that Kazmir will throw a freakin' no-hitter against us. He has been great since his return from the DL.

Meixner007
05-28-2008, 02:36 PM
If the only runner was on second I think he would have walked him. The fact is that if he walked Victor the bases would be loaded, and he had already walked a batter. Hawk pointed this out as well. Tough decision, but that's why he's paid the $$$.

nysox35
05-28-2008, 02:37 PM
I was hoping that Javy would be against Kazmir. Scott has been dominating, we our going to need our ace there.
Shields/Contreras another great matchup.

Agreed on both points. I think the first game sets the tone. If John goes in and gets us a win, I think we just may win 3 of 4.

Let's just hope that we don't have the free pizza fiasco for Tampa's fans like last year...:D:

White City
05-28-2008, 02:37 PM
Anytime we can escape Cleveland with a series win is a good sign. They've owned the Sox the last couple of years, so it's nice to see them take 5 of 6. On to Tampa!

Oh, and by the way...I think I'll stay out of game threads. Some of you people make me want to put my head through a wall with all of your negativity. If I didn't know any better by the look of some of the posts, you'd think the Sox were on a nine game losing streak. You people are NUTS! And I say that with love in my heart.:redneck

FYI -- I see the exact same thing on game threads for all manner of sports in all manner of fan bases, from pro sports to college sports, baseball to football to stuff like lacrosse. It's just the nature of on-the-spot emotion during a contest; the block in our brains that keeps such thoughts out in a public setting doesn't work on message boards, I guess.

I will say that college boards tend to be less ugly to the individual players, though. And rightfully so, as those players are "amateurs."

TDog
05-28-2008, 02:38 PM
Imagine how Indians fans feel. The Indians have lost five of six to the White Sox this week and last. In losing two of three games at home, the Indians in each of the defeats had more than one hitter come up in a situation where a single could have ended the game in their favor.

The Sox lost a game that wasn't close in Cleveland. Against the Twins at home, the Sox lost a game that wasn't close. I know the weekend against the Angels had a couple of close losses that frustrated, but the Sox have been doing a good job of winning close games within their division, the teams they compete with in the standings and the teams their unbalanced schedule unbalances toward.

I never disliked the Sox this year, but lately I have been liking this team increasingly more.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 02:38 PM
Who would have thought this series would be between two first-place teams? Should be an interesting weekend.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Content/Image/03-31-2008/Karl-Ravech.jpg
We swear that we did. You're talking about the Red Sox and Yankees, of course, right?

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:40 PM
FYI -- I see the exact same thing on game threads for all manner of sports in all manner of fan bases, from pro sports to college sports, baseball to football to stuff like lacrosse. It's just the nature of on-the-spot emotion during a contest; the block in our brains that keeps such thoughts out in a public setting doesn't work on message boards, I guess.

I will say that college boards tend to be less ugly to the individual players, though. And rightfully so, as those players are "amateurs."

Speaking for myself, I'm not always real rational while the game is going on. I tend to regain perspective once the outcome has been decided.

Madscout
05-28-2008, 02:40 PM
Gotta love this win. Lets the starting pitching know that we can pick them up when they need it, and they don't have to be perfect every time. Keep us in it, and we have a great chance to win...:bandance:

sox1970
05-28-2008, 02:40 PM
We've already seen Sonnanstine shut down our offense but I'm afraid that Kazmir will throw a freakin' no-hitter against us. He has been great since his return from the DL.

I'd definitely take a split in Tampa. Hopefully they'll win 2 of the first 3, so we're not sweating out Buehrle's start for a split. As sad as that is.

Pinar_del_Rio_WS
05-28-2008, 02:41 PM
Nice Win and Nice came-from-behind, they did better in the clutch today, great double from CQ in the 7th and Alexei was safe on first in 3 of 4 at bats. Im happy for him

only 6 LOB today

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:41 PM
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Content/Image/03-31-2008/Karl-Ravech.jpg
We swear that we did. You're talking about the Red Sox and Yankees, of course, right?

LOL. I rarely watch that program, unless I want to see highlights of something. Their analysis actually makes me stupider. I learn more about baseball by watching games than I do listening to that panel of "experts."

spawn
05-28-2008, 02:42 PM
FYI -- I see the exact same thing on game threads for all manner of sports in all manner of fan bases, from pro sports to college sports, baseball to football to stuff like lacrosse. It's just the nature of on-the-spot emotion during a contest; the block in our brains that keeps such thoughts out in a public setting doesn't work on message boards, I guess.

I don't see how that's possible. You have actually to make an effort to put those thoughts down on a message board.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-28-2008, 02:42 PM
Some of you people make me want to put my head through a wall with all of your negativity. If I didn't know any better by the look of some of the posts, you'd think the Sox were on a nine game losing streak. You people are NUTS! And I say that with love in my heart.:redneck

These boards have made me very bi-polar as well. :rolleyes:

Nice win tho nerve racking. Glad to see Gavin get a win when wasn't his best. :bandance:

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:43 PM
I'd definitely take a split in Tampa. Hopefully they'll win 2 of the first 3, so we're not sweating out Buehrle's start for a split. As sad as that is.

Sonnastine was horrible in his last outing too. He allowed seven runs on 10 hits in five innings last night against Texas. It will be a game between two pitchers trying to bounce back.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-28-2008, 02:44 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm not always real rational while the game is going on. I tend to regain perspective once the outcome has been decided.

Well put.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 02:44 PM
Sonnastine was horrible in his last outing too. He allowed seven runs on 10 hits in five innings last night against Texas. It will be a game between two pitchers trying to bounce back.

The Rangers' offense is *slightly* (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2008.shtml) better than ours.

Carolina Kenny
05-28-2008, 02:45 PM
How fast did we recover from yesterday's debacle?

this is a sign of a good team.

JB98
05-28-2008, 02:47 PM
The Rangers' offense is *slightly* (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2008.shtml) better than ours.

This is true.

Their hitting coach is better than ours too.


:)

The Immigrant
05-28-2008, 02:48 PM
Sign Dewayne Wise now!

jabrch
05-28-2008, 02:48 PM
The Rangers' offense is *slightly* (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2008.shtml) better than ours.

Their pitching is *slightly* (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Overall&sort=837) worse.

hawkjt
05-28-2008, 02:50 PM
a quick turnaround to get that bad taste of last nite behind you..HUGE WIN!

I felt like this was the key to the road trip today...takes pressure off of going to TB to avoid a horrible trip. Now, we can split the TB series and have a very good trip at 4-3 against our toughest rival and the hottest team in the league. Now, we do have to scrap out a couple wins in Florida..not easy. Kazmir will shut us down, we know that already. Shields also,probably. So maybe we get to Jackson making tomorrow nite the key game of that series.
I just hope they can find a way to get two.

White City
05-28-2008, 02:51 PM
I don't see how that's possible. You have actually to make an effort to put those thoughts down on a message board.

What I meant to say was ...

"You might hold your tongue when the crazies take over your brain in a social setting, but on a message board, you just let it all out."

jabrch
05-28-2008, 02:52 PM
Kazmir will shut us down, we know that already.

Might as well schedule a tee time at Copperhead - no reason to play the game. Can't beat Kasmir - it's a forgone conclusion.

HUH?


Shields also,probably.


Oh - thanks for saving me the time. I guess I will play TPC also. No reason to go to that game since hawkjt said we will get shut down by Jamie Shields.

minutia
05-28-2008, 02:53 PM
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Content/Image/03-31-2008/Karl-Ravech.jpg
We swear that we did. You're talking about the Red Sox and Yankees, of course, right?[/quote]
:rolling:[quote=doublem23;1906977]

Chez
05-28-2008, 02:53 PM
The Sox have now taken six of the last seven meetings with Cleveland. This win is huge for two reasons: 1) It erases the stink from last night's game, and 2) It was done in come-from-behind fashion. This loss is a demoralizing one for the Indians, especially since they blew a golden opportunity in the ninth.

Looking at the other teams in our division, the Tribe is still the club that worries me most. They have starting pitching, so if their offense comes around, they could go on a run. But these are head-to-head games with the Sox that they can never get back, and we have now established a 5.5-game lead on them as a result of the action in the last 10 days or so here.

Great job, Sox! :gulp:

I agree with your assessment. The Tribe's starting pitching is really good and if they pick up a couple of arms to shore up their leaky pen, they'll be awfully tough down the stretch.

Pinar_del_Rio_WS
05-28-2008, 02:53 PM
Shields also,probably.

Trust in Contreras, perhaps we get a 0-0 game :D:

The Immigrant
05-28-2008, 02:53 PM
We've done well in TB the last two years. I think we're 6-1 in the last 7 games there. We should at least split the series.

Carolina Kenny
05-28-2008, 02:56 PM
a quick turnaround to get that bad taste of last nite behind you..HUGE WIN!

I felt like this was the key to the road trip today...takes pressure off of going to TB to avoid a horrible trip. Now, we can split the TB series and have a very good trip at 4-3 against our toughest rival and the hottest team in the league. Now, we do have to scrap out a couple wins in Florida..not easy. Kazmir will shut us down, we know that already. Shields also,probably. So maybe we get to Jackson making tomorrow nite the key game of that series.
I just hope they can find a way to get two.

I don't know Kaz will shut us down. We got TCQ and Dye

hawkjt
05-28-2008, 02:59 PM
Trust in Contreras, perhaps we get a 0-0 game :D:

Ok...maybe I am a bit of a nervous nellie...the Sox do have a chance in any game they take the field.

But, no one can deny they struggle against Kasmir (he is just good) and Shields(last outing anyway) and that when the Sox struggle against a pitcher...they really struggle. We all know the prototype...leftys that have a good change. I never liked to face Johan Santana either.

Lip Man 1
05-28-2008, 02:59 PM
This and that:

The Sox are 5-1-1 in their last seven series. Plus Wednesday's win guaranteed them their second straight winning month. Granted they may only be one of two games over every month but if you can do that for the rest of the season you give yourself a shot.

Nice to see another fielding gaffe didn't cost them, although it certainly could have.

Kudos to the bullpen (yet again...) it's really nice to be able to say if the Sox are tied or have a lead after seven, they probably win the game.

This is the 3rd time this season the Sox have rallied in the 7th inning or later to win a game, two of those coming in the last three games.

Lip

soxpride724
05-28-2008, 03:03 PM
Great series, and another road victory! Bring on Tampa!:gulp:

kingpin_rcs
05-28-2008, 03:05 PM
TB currently has the best record in baseball. Personally, I think this is awesome. It's a shot in the arm for a franchise that badly needs it. Hopefully, this will get the people to come out, help build their fan base and eventually a new stadium.

That said, I want the Sox to play 4 well played games winning 3 if not 4 of them.


BTW. If they do get a new stadium with natural grass and MIN's new park has natural grass, would that leave Toronto as the only artificial surface left in MLB?

Craig Grebeck
05-28-2008, 03:07 PM
Their pitching is *slightly* (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Overall&sort=837) worse.
Not at all relevant to what has been said.

(unless this was tongue in cheek)

(which I highly doubt)

balke
05-28-2008, 03:08 PM
Sox are what 6-2 against Cleveland now? Not what i was expecting this season at all. Glad for it.

I like that the Sox are so strong in the bullpen right now. I know what Minnesota must feel like going into the 7th or 8th with a lead right now.

Pinar_del_Rio_WS
05-28-2008, 03:08 PM
Final R H E

Texas 3 6 0

T. Bay 5 7 0

WP: M. Garza (4-1) S: D. Wheeler (1)
LP: K. Gabbard (1-2)

So they are willing to beat us from tomorrow.

but we will never surrender.

Go, Sox, Go, dont stop believing

SoxGirl4Life
05-28-2008, 03:09 PM
This and that:

The Sox are 5-1-1 in their last seven series. Plus Wednesday's win guaranteed them their second straight winning month. Granted they may only be one of two games over every month but if you can do that for the rest of the season you give yourself a shot.

Nice to see another fielding gaffe didn't cost them, although it certainly could have.

Kudos to the bullpen (yet again...) it's really nice to be able to say if the Sox are tied or have a lead after seven, they probably win the game.

This is the 3rd time this season the Sox have rallied in the 7th inning or later to win a game, two of those coming in the last three games.

Lip

Wins like this one today and on Monday are more satisfying, IMO, than the win the Tribe got yesterday.

Carolina Kenny
05-28-2008, 03:09 PM
The Chicago White Sox have the best bullpen in all of MLB.

There, I have said it.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 03:10 PM
Their pitching is *slightly* (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Overall&sort=837) worse.

Uh, yeah, but I don't see how that relates to the Rangers O beating up on Sonnastine.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 03:11 PM
Sox are what 6-2 against Cleveland now? Not what i was expecting this season at all. Glad for it.

6-3

balke
05-28-2008, 03:13 PM
The Chicago White Sox have the best bullpen in all of MLB.

There, I have said it.

Blue Jays, Phillies, Dodgers all have better ERA's at this point.

cws05champ
05-28-2008, 03:18 PM
We've already seen Sonnanstine shut down our offense but I'm afraid that Kazmir will throw a freakin' no-hitter against us. He has been great since his return from the DL.
Normally I would say that I would rather the Sox face a hard thrower like Kazmir than a junk ball pitcher like Sonnastine. The Sox just don't do well against those junk ballers...however, since they have already seen Sonnastine this year and havn't seen Kaz it tips the scale in Kaz favor.

Todays game was one of the best games of the year IMO. Not because we played flawless, but we played flawed a lot of the game, and still battled through, came back and won on the road. Floyd did not have his command and made a fielding error, Linbrink got hit hard but with no damage, Jenks looked very hittable, but closed it out and we made a few defensive miscues.

I'm just glad the Sox responded and picked up Floyd when the Indians took the lead...that was the best part of it!

doublem23
05-28-2008, 03:18 PM
Blue Jays, Phillies, Dodgers all have better ERA's at this point.

Maybe overall, but the Big 3 of the Sox bullpen - Jenks, Linebrink, and Dotel - are pitching out of their minds right now. How many of the runs the Sox bullpen has given up were in garbage time, or were thanks to Ehren Wassermann?

Right now, I'm pretty confident that the opposition will only score a run every now and then after the sixth inning. That's a nice feeling.

cws05champ
05-28-2008, 03:19 PM
Blue Jays, Phillies, Dodgers all have better ERA's at this point.
But they don't have the " Greatest Bullpen EVER". There...I said it!

jabrch
05-28-2008, 03:21 PM
Uh, yeah, but I don't see how that relates to the Rangers O beating up on Sonnastine.

It doesn't...but it offsets some of the gap between our offense and Texas. Just saying things aren't gloomy just because we don't score as many runs as the Rangers (229 vs 286). Our pitching more than makes up for it (3.42 ERA vs 4.81)

balke
05-28-2008, 03:21 PM
Maybe overall, but the Big 3 of the Sox bullpen - Jenks, Linebrink, and Dotel - are pitching out of their minds right now. How many of the runs the Sox bullpen has given up were in garbage time, or were thanks to Ehren Wassermann?

Right now, I'm pretty confident that the opposition will only score a run every now and then after the sixth inning. That's a nice feeling.

I'm just sticking to the facts at this point. I'm not in tune with the entire leagues bullpen. I do think the Sox are and have been a top bullpen all season. What's even better to think about for me is Wasserman developing by season's end, Thornton Logan and Masset all being trustworthy to give the top studs a rest.

The bullpen is deep, has a stud closer, and 2-3 stud set-up guys.

turners56
05-28-2008, 03:24 PM
That series is OVAH!!!

Great series win on the road. Big clutch hitting today. Brilliant win. Nice job getting out of a jam by bobby. Alexei played his arse off today as well!

I saw him grabbing his hamstring coming around 3rd, any word on him?

NVM, I just saw that he nobody replaced him on the box score. Damn, I thought he was going to be out for a week after that.

whitesoxfan
05-28-2008, 03:25 PM
Games like today are fun.

If we can find a way to take 3 of 4 from Tampa, people will really start to believe that we are for real.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 03:29 PM
It doesn't...but it offsets some of the gap between our offense and Texas. Just saying things aren't gloomy just because we don't score as many runs as the Rangers (229 vs 286). Our pitching more than makes up for it (3.42 ERA vs 4.81)

Well, I don't think anyone was being gloomy, but I agree to a point. It's pure opinion but I'd be more worried about our pitching regressing than Texas's offense.

Our bats don't need to wake up, but only so long as our pitchers continue their current string of success. It'd be nice to have the arms keep up their job and have the bats join them so we could put some daylight between the division and us.

Still, there's only 2-3 teams I'd rather be right now than ours.

Tragg
05-28-2008, 03:34 PM
So how did Dewayne look?

Re Floyd, when he was flirthing with no hitters, people pointed out he had high BB and lo K rates; today he walks none and Ks 7, but his runs are up. How do you figure?

MsSoxVixen22
05-28-2008, 03:34 PM
I luvvv come from behind wins! :bandance: Now let's take 3/4 from the Rays!

SoxGirl4Life
05-28-2008, 03:37 PM
So how did Dewayne look?

0-4, 2 K's

jabrch
05-28-2008, 03:37 PM
Well, I don't think anyone was being gloomy, but I agree to a point. It's pure opinion but I'd be more worried about our pitching regressing than Texas's offense.

That's true - but at the same time I am much more confident that our hitting has room to get better given who we have on the team than I do that Texas' pitching will get better with their current roster.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 03:40 PM
So how did Dewayne look?

Eerily like Willie Harris.

Noneck
05-28-2008, 03:42 PM
So how did Dewayne look?



He looked as tho he had no reason to start in center and should never again start unless major injuries occur.

oeo
05-28-2008, 03:42 PM
So how did Dewayne look?

Re Floyd, when he was flirthing with no hitters, people pointed out he had high BB and lo K rates; today he walks none and Ks 7, but his runs are up. How do you figure?

I didn't see the other inning that he gave up runs, but the first inning was flukey (BTW, I thought he handled himself very well getting out of that). I'm not worried about it. The walks were down, and that will be a good thing in the end.

Tragg
05-28-2008, 03:43 PM
He looked as tho he had no reason to start in center and should never again start unless major injuries occur.

Well, it's unanimous.
Ozzie will have to play Anderson then.

kevingrt
05-28-2008, 03:44 PM
On Ramirez's slide home on the sac fly by Quentin early in the game, watching the Injuns broadcast their announcers thought he clearly missed the plate. I thought he definitely got the back corner of the plate. What do you guys think?

Noneck
05-28-2008, 03:45 PM
Well, it's unanimous.
Ozzie will have to play Anderson then.


Or Swish or Ramirez

SoxGirl4Life
05-28-2008, 03:45 PM
On Ramirez's slide home on the sac fly by Quentin early in the game, watching the Injuns broadcast their announcers thought he clearly missed the plate. I thought he definitely got the back corner of the plate. What do you guys think?


I think the ump got the call right.. it looked like Alexei swiped the tippy part of the plate before the tag was put on.

Soxman219
05-28-2008, 03:46 PM
I didn't see the game but I love the result! :bandance:

Let's expose the Rays this weekend.

Pinar_del_Rio_WS
05-28-2008, 03:47 PM
So how did Dewayne look?

more lost than a cow in a cinema, hopeless

kevingrt
05-28-2008, 03:48 PM
more lost than a cow in a cinema, hopeless

I was gonna say like Rob M.

Tragg
05-28-2008, 03:48 PM
mlb.com has a nice montage of all 7 of Gavin's Ks. His curveball is absolutely nasty.

TomBradley72
05-28-2008, 03:52 PM
Ramirez is looking more and more comfortable each day at 2nd base. He's starting to drive the ball a little, he's all over the field on defense, and giving us a little bit of a spark on the basepaths. Still a little raw and making some rookie mistakes, but if he keeps progressing I think we'll start seeing some gappers from him in the next 2-3 weeks.
Nice to see Crede starting to drive the ball, spectacular diving play on that line drive.
Paulie showing a few flickers of life with the bat.
Bullpen is incredible Just incredible. Linebrink's ERA is headed towards < 1.00 territory.
Nice to see Floyd get a W even though he struggled.We're on pace to win 90 games. We're in 1st place. And I don't think we're playing anywhere near our potential.

Tragg
05-28-2008, 03:53 PM
On Ramirez's slide home on the sac fly by Quentin early in the game, watching the Injuns broadcast their announcers thought he clearly missed the plate. I thought he definitely got the back corner of the plate. What do you guys think?
I just watched it on mlb.com...it looked to me like he touched it, but you can't really tell for sure one way or the other. The ump was right there.
checking out the other highlights, that was a great catch by Crede; he actually moved left at first, adjusted, and then dove right for that ball. That dude can cover some ground at 3b. It won't be easy replacing him.

The Milkman
05-28-2008, 03:57 PM
So nobody cares that Uribe is about to take over Alexei's WELL-EARNED and WELL-DESERVED starting 2B job?

doublem23
05-28-2008, 03:59 PM
So nobody cares that Uribe is about to take over Alexei's WELL-EARNED and WELL-DESERVED starting 2B job?

Link, please? :dunno:

Tragg
05-28-2008, 04:01 PM
So nobody cares that Uribe is about to take over Alexei's WELL-EARNED and WELL-DESERVED starting 2B job?
Uribe needs to take over Ozuna's utility positioon.
I'd like to see Ramirez learn SS.

WhiteSox5187
05-28-2008, 04:01 PM
So nobody cares that Uribe is about to take over Alexei's WELL-EARNED and WELL-DESERVED starting 2B job?
I don't think Ozzie or Kenny are big fans of Uribe...once he gets back I think he'll be moved for whatever they can get for him or he'll play off the bench.

The Milkman
05-28-2008, 04:10 PM
Link, please? :dunno:

No link. We're the White Sox. $4.5MM doesn't ride pine.

Daver
05-28-2008, 04:16 PM
Uribe needs to take over Ozuna's utility positioon.
I'd like to see Ramirez learn SS.

He played SS in Cuba on a regular basis.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 04:17 PM
No link. We're the White Sox. $4.5MM doesn't ride pine.

Ah, so this is just an accusation leveled at Ozzie with no known basis in reality?

:thumbsup:

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 04:24 PM
Uribe needs to take over Ozuna's utility positioon.
I'd like to see Ramirez learn SS.

If he keeps hitting, then move him to CF when Richar is ready. Re-sign Cabrera and next year Swish moves to RF as Dye goes to DH.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 04:25 PM
Ah, so this is just an accusation leveled at Ozzie with no known basis in reality?

:thumbsup:

Does that surprise you?

Nevermind that Uribe was destined for waivers before Richar hurt his back at the beginning of the season.

Noneck
05-28-2008, 04:26 PM
No link. We're the White Sox. $4.5MM doesn't ride pine.
I felt the same as you in spring training and said Uribe will start if he is on club instead of Richar because the Sox want players to earn their salary. Others disagreed. Maybe soon we will find out who is correct.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 04:28 PM
I felt the same as you in spring training and said Uribe will start if he is on club instead of Richar because the Sox want players to earn their salary. Others disagreed. Maybe soon we will find out who is correct.

:gah:

Okay, nice and slow...

Uribe...

Was...

Waived...

Until...

Richar...

Hurt...

His...

Back...

Noneck
05-28-2008, 04:29 PM
:gah:

Okay, nice and slow...

Uribe...

Was...

Waived...

Until...

Richar...

Hurt...

His...

Back...
Can you show a link or evidence of that?

whitesox901
05-28-2008, 04:31 PM
We're on pace to win 90 games. We're in 1st place. And I don't think we're playing anywhere near our potential.

I can drink to that! :gulp:

The Milkman
05-28-2008, 04:31 PM
Indeed. I think that 25+ years of this current ownership group is a strong enough sample period to pass judgment in matters related to things they have done on a consistent basis...like play guys who make $4.5MM even though they can't hit and may or may not have shot someone.

btrain929
05-28-2008, 04:32 PM
I agree with your assessment. The Tribe's starting pitching is really good and if they pick up a couple of arms to shore up their leaky pen, they'll be awfully tough down the stretch.

I can see them maybe trading some of their young talent to get someone like Brian Fuentes, Jon Rauch, etc.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 04:34 PM
I can drink to that! :gulp:

Here's a 489 post thread on the subject from late in spring training. Search it for links if you want to...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98811

Tragg
05-28-2008, 04:34 PM
If he keeps hitting, then move him to CF when Richar is ready. Re-sign Cabrera and next year Swish moves to RF as Dye goes to DH. Greater long term need at SS. IF is his natural position. I don't think he'll ever bring an OF bat to the party.
We actually have a lockdown defensive CF who's O is actually improving and might continue to do so given consistent playing time.

Noneck
05-28-2008, 04:38 PM
Here's a 489 post thread on the subject from late in spring training. Search it for links if you want to...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98811


Players are put on waivers constantly for the purpose of seeing what teams may be interested in them for a trade. Who knows what other players have been put on waivers and been pulled back. Until Uribe is waived and not pulled back, it means nothing.

munchman33
05-28-2008, 04:41 PM
Ah, so this is just an accusation leveled at Ozzie with no known basis in reality?

:thumbsup:

You know, there's a lot of baseless assumptions thrown around here, but this is FAR from it. I'd be shocked, SHOCKED, if Uribe didn't automatically get his job back.

doublem23
05-28-2008, 04:43 PM
You know, there's a lot of baseless assumptions thrown around here, but this is FAR from it. I'd be shocked, SHOCKED, if Uribe didn't automatically get his job back.

Well, unless someone has some proof that this is the plan, can we please wait to see what happens before we start freaking out?

SoxGirl4Life
05-28-2008, 04:46 PM
Well, unless someone has some proof that this is the plan, can we please wait to see what happens before we start freaking out?


Surely, you jest... lol

doublem23
05-28-2008, 04:50 PM
Surely, you jest... lol

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/lang_whitaker/07/31/the.links/p1_perry.jpg
Don't stop believing...

DickAllen72
05-28-2008, 04:57 PM
Going to be upset when Uribe comes back...you know Alexei's going back to the pine.
Uribe should return as the starting SS.

Either that or move Ramirez to SS and put Uribe back at 2B.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 05:12 PM
Uribe should return as the starting SS.

Either that or move Ramirez to SS and put Uribe back at 2B.

Yeah, that makes sense, bench the guy with the batting average 40 points higher than Uribe who's hitting leadoff, showing signs of really putting it together and playing gold glove defense on a first place team for a guy everyone wanted gone last summer...

Post of the weak...

DickAllen72
05-28-2008, 05:35 PM
Yeah, that makes sense, bench the guy with the batting average 40 points higher than Uribe who's hitting leadoff, showing signs of really putting it together and playing gold glove defense on a first place team for a guy everyone wanted gone last summer...

Post of the weak...
You misspelled "week."

Uribe plays better defense than Cabrera and doesn't cause problems in the clubhouse or in the media. Cabrera hasn't been impressive in the field, on the basepathsnor at the plate, not to mention the clubhouse. Yes, he has had a few hits recently, but he botched a couple of sac bunt attempts again today and still hasn't shown this great "bat handling" ability he was supposed to have.

Consider the source and take it with a grain of salt, but Rongey today said that more than a few White Sox personnel told him "off the record" that Cabrera is not their best defensive shortstop--he claimed they thought Ramirez was actually the best defensive SS followed by Uribe second. I never really saw Alexei play much SS so I don't know about that one, but I do know that Juan is a much better defensive SS than Cabrera.

Noneck
05-28-2008, 05:46 PM
You misspelled "week."

Uribe plays better defense than Cabrera and doesn't cause problems in the clubhouse or in the media. Cabrera hasn't been impressive in the field, on the basepathsnor at the plate, not to mention the clubhouse. Yes, he has had a few hits recently, but he botched a couple of sac bunt attempts again today and still hasn't shown this great "bat handling" ability he was supposed to have.

Consider the source and take it with a grain of salt, but Rongey today said that more than a few White Sox personnel told him "off the record" that Cabrera is not their best defensive shortstop--he claimed they thought Ramirez was actually the best defensive SS followed by Uribe second. I never really saw Alexei play much SS so I don't know about that one, but I do know that Juan is a much better defensive SS than Cabrera.

This will turn into a very interesting situation when Uribe and Richar are both well and ready to play. I don't want to play GM on this one, considering the stakes.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 05:47 PM
This will turn into a very interesting situation when Uribe and Richar are both well and ready to play. I don't want to play GM on this one, considering the stakes.

Bring up Richar and cut Uribe. It's pretty simple...

Frater Perdurabo
05-28-2008, 05:47 PM
Consider the source and take it with a grain of salt, but Rongey today said that more than a few White Sox personnel told him "off the record" that Cabrera is not their best defensive shortstop--he claimed they thought Ramirez was actually the best defensive SS followed by Uribe second. I never really saw Alexei play much SS so I don't know about that one, but I do know that Juan is a much better defensive SS than Cabrera.

Interesting and exciting if true.

Noneck
05-28-2008, 05:52 PM
Bring up Richar and cut Uribe. It's pretty simple...
Not that simple to see millions of $$$$ and experience walk when you are in 1st place, for an unproven kid.

Actually 2 unproven kids.

chisoxfanatic
05-28-2008, 05:54 PM
:wh1tesox00

Absolutely outstanding picture, doub! I just loathe the Indians, and setting the tone against them, taking command is the best thing that could happen. I'm loving our season series against them. We must continue doing the same things to them next time around.

Cleveland decided they wanted to challenge our Sox to a battle of the bullpens, and they lost...again! Bad Bobby almost gave me a heart attack there in the 9th, but he effectively got out of it, like any all-star would.

I must give Ramirez some major credit for staying in the game even after he seemingly pulled his groin. That displays great character and will power.

It's nice that our hitters were able to help Floyd out a little here and get him that win.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 05:58 PM
Not that simple to see millions of $$$$ and experience walk when you are in 1st place, for an unproven kid.

Actually 2 unproven kids.

I think Ramirez development since he has been starting at 2B makes it less of a concern. The team is winning with Ramirez in and he not only hasn't cost the team anything defensively he's been outhitting Juan by a ton Richar gives the team a fallback plan in case Ramirez falters or vice versa.

gobears1987
05-28-2008, 06:00 PM
We are dominating Cleveland this year. Just like 2005.


This team is doing well. We are dominating the Central Division, and that is all that will matter in the end. We haven't even gotten to play the Royals once yet. Just look at our Central record after we play them.:D:

ms620
05-28-2008, 06:03 PM
While its always fun to win games 10-0, games like this build character. You give up 3 to fall behind, and you come right back and score 3 of your own. That is great baseball.

Noneck
05-28-2008, 06:04 PM
I think Ramirez development since he has been starting at 2B makes it less of a concern. The team is winning with Ramirez in and he not only hasn't cost the team anything defensively he's been outhitting Juan by a ton Richar gives the team a fallback plan in case Ramirez falters or vice versa.
And you think these 2 kids can handle a stretch drive with a loose canon like Cabrera? I really don't know and am happy I am not the decision maker on this one.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-28-2008, 06:39 PM
A couple of things about this game ...
Still concerned about Crede. He's making too many errors. He now has ten on the year.

I'm not sure why Wise played CF instead of Anderson. I can't believe Anderson is tired and needs a rest.

Thome and Konerko can't keep going 1-for-7 all year and expect this team to continue to win the division. They're making it hard on everyone else in the lineup.

The pitching has been great, both starting and relief. If they keep that up, the Sox will be in it all year because pitching keeps you in the game.

Keep calling the press box OC. The fewer errors Cabrera has the better chance the Sox have in getting two compensation picks for him when they let him walk at the end of the year.

Railsplitter
05-28-2008, 07:13 PM
When the Sox win, bananas dance. I like it when bananas dance.
:bandance:

doublem23
05-28-2008, 07:18 PM
Absolutely outstanding picture, doub! I just loathe the Indians, and setting the tone against them, taking command is the best thing that could happen. I'm loving our season series against them. We must continue doing the same things to them next time around.

While I would love to take credit for it, that was designed by one of our former posters. The tag bears his old WSI screen name. I agree, it rules. Now that the Brew Crew bolted for the N.L., the Jndjans are easily my least favorite division rival. They can go suck it.

http://agoldenworld.files.wordpress.com/2006/06/Triple_H_Backlash.jpg

soxfan21
05-28-2008, 07:22 PM
Glad to see us win this game, was pretty worried in the beginning, and most of this game I was on the edge of my seat. Glad to see TCQ come through in the clutch again. Now let's go to Tampa Bay and try to win at least 2 out of 4 :D:.

cws05champ
05-28-2008, 07:27 PM
Bring up Richar and cut Uribe. It's pretty simple...
I'm a big Richar fan (and I want him to do well)but unless he starts tearing up AAA in his rehab I just can't see him bringing the versatility that Uribe could off the bench. Uribe can play 2B, 3B and SS well and has made plays in pressure situations. I think Ramirez should start at 2B right now even when Uribe returns.

chisoxfanatic
05-28-2008, 07:50 PM
While I would love to take credit for it, that was designed by one of our former posters. The tag bears his old WSI screen name. I agree, it rules. Now that the Brew Crew bolted for the N.L., the Jndjans are easily my least favorite division rival. They can go suck it.

Let me take a stab at it and guess that it was the whole Wisconsin-hate thing there with your loathing of the Brewers when they were in our division, like we have for the Packers as well?

I have to say that the Tribe has always been my most-hated. A lot of that has to do with the days of Vizquel, Manny Ramirez, Thome, and Belle where they would absolutely tee off on us.

Glad to see us win this game, was pretty worried in the beginning, and most of this game I was on the edge of my seat. Glad to see TCQ come through in the clutch again. Now let's go to Tampa Bay and try to win at least 2 out of 4 :D:.

I was on the edge of my seat a lot as well. But, I got extremely happy after Bobby got the save, which helped me absolutely kick some butt at my job interview this afternoon! If I get this job, I'll have to credit the Sox for helping me out a little bit by winning today's game!

Tragg
05-28-2008, 07:53 PM
Of all the infielders, Richar could develop into a leadoff hitter.
Somehow we need to milk Cabrera for some high draft choices...don't know how, but I hope it happens.

Ava83
05-28-2008, 08:16 PM
I hate the Toons.

Thanks for a White Sox winner on my birthday!

:winner:

:gulp:


Happy Birthday to you! And Yeah to the WIN! Its a combo platter of happy!

TomBradley72
05-28-2008, 08:18 PM
Of all the infielders, Richar could develop into a leadoff hitter.


He might develop...but all this love for Richar (25 y.o. who hit .230 with a .289 OBP in extended time last year (.205 vs. LHs), w/1 SB...I'd have him (at best) 3rd on the depth chart behind Alexei and Uribe. A team with a goal of getting to the World Series does not want Richar as their starting 2nd baseman.

Thome_Fan
05-28-2008, 08:44 PM
A couple of things about this game ...
Still concerned about Crede. He's making too many errors. He now has ten on the year.

I'm not sure why Wise played CF instead of Anderson. I can't believe Anderson is tired and needs a rest.

Thome and Konerko can't keep going 1-for-7 all year and expect this team to continue to win the division. They're making it hard on everyone else in the lineup.

The pitching has been great, both starting and relief. If they keep that up, the Sox will be in it all year because pitching keeps you in the game.

Keep calling the press box OC. The fewer errors Cabrera has the better chance the Sox have in getting two compensation picks for him when they let him walk at the end of the year.

Judging by the things I've heard him say recently, I highly doubt he would resign with the Sox even if they offered. He sounds itching to get back to his darling Scoscia (not that I dislike Scoscia at all, he's a great manager.)

doublem23
05-28-2008, 08:49 PM
Let me take a stab at it and guess that it was the whole Wisconsin-hate thing there with your loathing of the Brewers when they were in our division, like we have for the Packers as well?

Nah, the Brewers have always rubbed me the wrong way. It didn't hurt their minions are the same minions who (for the most part) root for the Evil Tundra Empire, but I would have disliked the Brewers growing up without the Packer connection.

A. Cavatica
05-28-2008, 08:56 PM
All we have to do is bribe the Dominican investigators to reopen the case and convict Uribe. Then (I assume) his contract would be voided because of the usual "conduct unbecoming" clause.

asindc
05-28-2008, 09:14 PM
Anytime we can escape Cleveland with a series win is a good sign. They've owned the Sox the last couple of years, so it's nice to see them take 5 of 6. On to Tampa!

Oh, and by the way...I think I'll stay out of game threads. Some of you people make me want to put my head through a wall with all of your negativity. If I didn't know any better by the look of some of the posts, you'd think the Sox were on a nine game losing streak. You people are NUTS! And I say that with love in my heart.:redneck

You beat me to the punch. I have been thinking about posting a new thread addressing this, but eventually decided not to because I don't think it would have any impact. Looking at the title of last night's post game thread says it all.

I love coming here and comiserating with fellow Sox fans, but some of you please remind me to never watch a game with you! :o: You would think that our beloved Sox are playing like San Diego or Seattle right now! Perspective, people!

jabrch
05-28-2008, 09:29 PM
You beat me to the punch. I have been thinking about posting a new thread addressing this, but eventually decided not to because I don't think it would have any impact. Looking at the title of last night's post game thread says it all.

I love coming here and comiserating with fellow Sox fans, but some of you please remind me to never watch a game with you! :o: You would think that our beloved Sox are playing like San Diego or Seattle right now! Perspective, people!

No kidding...

MarySwiss
05-28-2008, 09:39 PM
You beat me to the punch. I have been thinking about posting a new thread addressing this, but eventually decided not to because I don't think it would have any impact. Looking at the title of last night's post game thread says it all.

I love coming here and comiserating with fellow Sox fans, but some of you please remind me to never watch a game with you! :o: You would think that our beloved Sox are playing like San Diego or Seattle right now! Perspective, people!

No kidding...

And?

I do believe this is what postgame threads are for. Venting. When we win, it's good venting. When we lose, not so much.

But I'm not sure why some of us feel like venting against venting. :?:

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 09:48 PM
And?

I do believe this is what postgame threads are for. Venting. When we win, it's good venting. When we lose, not so much.

But I'm not sure why some of us feel like venting against venting. :?:

Have you read the game day threads recently?

champagne030
05-28-2008, 09:48 PM
I think Ramirez development since he has been starting at 2B makes it less of a concern. The team is winning with Ramirez in and he not only hasn't cost the team anything defensively he's been outhitting Juan by a ton Richar gives the team a fallback plan in case Ramirez falters or vice versa.

What games have you been watching?

Crede makes a bad throw, but because he uses the wrong foot to receive the throw and the ump blows the call the runner is safe.

He fails to charge a routine double play and Durham beats the relay throw.

Dotel, ****s up by throwing to second, but he fails to catch the ball on a play he still could've nailed the runner at first.

All in the last 10 days.

He is extremely raw and lacks fundamental play at 2B, at this point.

Maybe you're saying that we haven't lost any games because of his "errors" or his offense makes up for the blunders, but he cannot sniff Juan's jock as a defensive second baseman.

Tragg
05-28-2008, 10:38 PM
He might develop...but all this love for Richar (25 y.o. who hit .230 with a .289 OBP in extended time last year (.205 vs. LHs), w/1 SB...I'd have him (at best) 3rd on the depth chart behind Alexei and Uribe. A team with a goal of getting to the World Series does not want Richar as their starting 2nd baseman. It wasn't that extended, and he was mired at the bottom of the order, surrounded by the worst hitters on the league's worst offensive team. He SHOULD have been given a position at the top of the order at least part of the time, but that honor went to Erstad (and Owens) to the bitter end.
He hit for OBP in the minors, showed some pop in his bat and it appears that he has patience, although it didn't show in his numbers.


On a different topic, I never liked the Brewers when they were in the AL either.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 10:41 PM
What games have you been watching?

Crede makes a bad throw, but because he uses the wrong foot to receive the throw and the ump blows the call the runner is safe.

He fails to charge a routine double play and Durham beats the relay throw.

Dotel, ****s up by throwing to second, but he fails to catch the ball on a play he still could've nailed the runner at first.

All in the last 10 days.

He is extremely raw and lacks fundamental play at 2B, at this point.

Maybe you're saying that we haven't lost any games because of his "errors" or his offense makes up for the blunders, but he cannot sniff Juan's jock as a defensive second baseman.

Those are errors that can be fixed though. So long as he continues to work at improving his knowledge he'll be fine.

This team needs offensive help and Uribe doesn't bring that element. Ramirez may not be experienced, but he has all the range, speed and arm that Uribe does so it's mostly a matter of practice. I'd take my chances knowing I had Richar as a backup who can play fine defense at 2B and won't cost us anything over Uribe offensively if Ramirez falls off the face of the planet.

Vernam
05-28-2008, 10:47 PM
Have you read the game day threads recently?Well, bless MarySwiss for defending our right to vent, but I also understand Voodoo's point about the game threads. I checked in there the other day and was, um, put off by some of the outright hate going on. :o: Despite a lot of frustration with our 3-4 (now 5-6) hitters, I still think Ozzie and Kenny are amazing to have put and kept this team together. KW is right about OG -- he covers his players' asses to a fault, which makes Cabrera's criticism ring pretty hollow. When Kenny told Cabrera to ask his "neighbors," he needn't look any farther than those former 3-4 hitters. That's the kind of manager any guy should want to play for. If Scioscia really is the best, it's a shame he didn't reciprocate Orlando's opinion, otherwise he'd still be playing SS in Anaheim. Get over it, dude.

But back to the game . . . OK, so the paranoids have new ammunition with the Trib's headline tonight: "White Sox bats pick up shaky Floyd, take series from Indians (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080528-chicago-white-sox-cleveland-indians,0,7143441.story)." Bull****, the kid pitched his ass off after that silly error he made in the first. (If you don't believe me, see their own statistical analysis (http://chicagosports.inside-edge.com/whitesoxPRCPG.aspx?TeamID=12&dt=052808) that gives Gavin a B+ for the day.) I love watching him and Danks pitch through a little adversity. Eventually it's got to pay off with their W-L record, and it was great to see Gavin get the W today without having to pitch a near-no-hitter. Shaky my ****ing ass.

Re: Quentin, that PoS Steve Rosenbloom already paid him the ultimate compliment, so what could I possibly add? Whatever whiskey Carlos is drinking, get a case for all our other hitters.

And last but by no means least, our bullpen is cause for extreme optimism if not outright giddiness. Linebrink and Dotel are worth a few two-homer hitting foreign phenoms, and then some.

I hope Alexei is okay.

Vernam

BadBobbyJenks
05-28-2008, 11:22 PM
Joe Crede's catch was the number one web gem and the crew was gushing over Carlos Quentin after the game highlights. Damn those White Sox haters!

roadrunner
05-29-2008, 12:22 AM
sniff Juan's jock

:chunks

cws05champ
05-29-2008, 08:05 AM
Joe Crede's catch was the number one web gem and the crew was gushing over Carlos Quentin after the game highlights. Damn those White Sox haters!
The same BBTN crew that last night said: "Quentin, here's your one white sox All star" and when talking about him; " You have to give credit to KW, he only traded a minor league pitcher for Quentin". Also, they had him as #1 in HR and # 1 in RBI's in the AL. Uh, good research considering Josh Hamilton has 11 more RBI than Quentin.
ESPN and BBTN blows....

SoxGirl4Life
05-29-2008, 08:23 AM
The same BBTN crew that last night said: "Quentin, here's your one white sox All star" and when talking about him; " You have to give credit to KW, he only traded a minor league pitcher for Quentin". Also, they had him as #1 in HR and # 1 in RBI's in the AL. Uh, good research considering Josh Hamilton has 11 more RBI than Quentin.
ESPN and BBTN blows....


I caught that too.. that's why you take everything from them with a grain of salt, good or bad.

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2008, 08:28 AM
I caught that too.. that's why you take everything from them with a grain of salt, good or bad.

It's really ridiculous. You'd think that a show called Baseball Tonight, which only claims to cover Major League Baseball, would get its facts straight. I guess it's more important to cut the number of producers, reporters and fact checkers in order to maximize Disney shareholder profits.
:(:

Tragg
05-29-2008, 08:29 AM
Joe Crede's catch was the number one web gem

That catch matches with the best of Brooks Robinson or of Greg Nettles in that world series (77 or 78) for those who remember back then. Is the back healed?

balke
05-29-2008, 08:42 AM
Those are errors that can be fixed though. So long as he continues to work at improving his knowledge he'll be fine.

This team needs offensive help and Uribe doesn't bring that element. Ramirez may not be experienced, but he has all the range, speed and arm that Uribe does so it's mostly a matter of practice. I'd take my chances knowing I had Richar as a backup who can play fine defense at 2B and won't cost us anything over Uribe offensively if Ramirez falls off the face of the planet.

Like last season with Richar, I don't see where the great offense is in the new guy. I like Ramirez' potential, but .229 avg. with .253 OBP isn't anything more than Uribe can do with the bat. He did make a great play yesterday with his slide, but that doesn't make him offensively better.

That's a higher avg. so far for Ramirez, but a lower OBP. and SLG %. When Juan comes back I think he should still be the starter. I say deal with the 2B debacle at seasons end, or at the deadline if the Sox feel like dealing. Right now, there's two or 3 2Bman with near equal talent, but Uribe is giving just slightly more overall as a veteran. The Sox are in championship mode again, not development mode.

But you are right, Richar or Ramirez isn't a big deal at this point. The only thing that is going to suck is if they bring up Richar there will be controversy over the starting 2Bman. Its the same as bringing up Jerry Owens, as there will be debate all the time as to whether the Sox should use him or Anderson.

spawn
05-29-2008, 09:00 AM
And?

I do believe this is what postgame threads are for. Venting. When we win, it's good venting. When we lose, not so much.

But I'm not sure why some of us feel like venting against venting. :?:
I have no problem with people venting in post game threads because, as you said, that's what they are for. It's the gameday threads I was talking about staying out of. The hate for a player while the game is still going on is unbelieveable. The hate for players not even playing in the game is ridiculous. For example, Dwayne Wise gets his first start and is ripped mercilously. It's the guys first start in the bigs this season. Is it necessary to blast him him? And then someonwe chimes in with "Even Swisher's replacement sucks." *****.

There was also a comment predicting a double play based on... :dunno:

Now before anyone says it, I know that if i don't want to read things like that then I should stay out of the gameday threads, and that's exactly what I was saying in my post. The pessimism and negativity displayed in these threads even though the team is in first place is mind boggling. I really found it funny that people were constantly bitching about the offense while ignoring the fact that Gavin kept us in the game until the offense picked him up.

OK...my rant is over. :redneck

voodoochile
05-29-2008, 09:16 AM
Like last season with Richar, I don't see where the great offense is in the new guy. I like Ramirez' potential, but .229 avg. with .253 OBP isn't anything more than Uribe can do with the bat. He did make a great play yesterday with his slide, but that doesn't make him offensively better.

That's a higher avg. so far for Ramirez, but a lower OBP. and SLG %. When Juan comes back I think he should still be the starter. I say deal with the 2B debacle at seasons end, or at the deadline if the Sox feel like dealing. Right now, there's two or 3 2Bman with near equal talent, but Uribe is giving just slightly more overall as a veteran. The Sox are in championship mode again, not development mode.

But you are right, Richar or Ramirez isn't a big deal at this point. The only thing that is going to suck is if they bring up Richar there will be controversy over the starting 2Bman. Its the same as bringing up Jerry Owens, as there will be debate all the time as to whether the Sox should use him or Anderson.

Is Uribe still capbable of putting up better offensive numbers? He was hitting .194 before getting hurt. Ramirez in his first regular stint as a starter ever in the majors is hitting .300/.321/.400/.721. Those are his May numbers - 50 AB. He's also got speed to burn - something many people feel the Sox need. Even if Uribe comes back to the team and Richar stays in AAA, Ramirez should be the starting 2B, IMO. I don't have an objection to Juan being a supersub, I just don't think he brings a good enough bat to give up the bench space for.

SoxGirl4Life
05-29-2008, 09:18 AM
I have no problem with people venting in post game threads because, as you said, that's what they are for. It's the gameday threads I was talking about staying out of. The hate for a player while the game is still going on is unbelieveable. The hate for players not even playing in the game is ridiculous. For example, Dwayne Wise gets his first start and is ripped mercilously. It's the guys first start in the bigs this season. Is it necessary to blast him him? And then someonwe chimes in with "Even Swisher's replacement sucks." *****.

There was also a comment predicting a double play based on... :dunno:

Now before anyone says it, I know that if i don't want to read things like that then I should stay out of the gameday threads, and that's exactly what I was saying in my post. The pessimism and negativity displayed in these threads even though the team is in first place is mind boggling. I really found it funny that people were constantly bitching about the offense while ignoring the fact that Gavin kept us in the game until the offense picked him up.

OK...my rant is over. :redneck

I'm with you. I was hanging around the game day thread during the beginning of Tuesday's loss, and the thread was actually more aggravating than the game itself.

balke
05-29-2008, 09:25 AM
Is Uribe still capbable of putting up better offensive numbers? He was hitting .194 before getting hurt. Ramirez in his first regular stint as a starter ever in the majors is hitting .300/.321/.400/.721. Those are his May numbers - 50 AB. He's also got speed to burn - something many people feel the Sox need. Even if Uribe comes back to the team and Richar stays in AAA, Ramirez should be the starting 2B, IMO. I don't have an objection to Juan being a supersub, I just don't think he brings a good enough bat to give up the bench space for.


If he keeps up the numbers from one month of baseball, yes. But overall he is actually hitting .229/.253/.313 in 83 at-bats. That looks pretty Juan Uribesque to me, except Juan has better D and more power so far. Is Juan capable of a hot streak like that? Last Sept/Oct he was .309/.358/.526/.884 in 97 ABs

voodoochile
05-29-2008, 09:25 AM
I'm with you. I was hanging around the game day thread during the beginning of Tuesday's loss, and the thread was actually more aggravating than the game itself.

The "experts" certainly can **** up a good baseball game now can't they?

oeo
05-29-2008, 09:25 AM
The same BBTN crew that last night said: "Quentin, here's your one white sox All star" and when talking about him; " You have to give credit to KW, he only traded a minor league pitcher for Quentin". Also, they had him as #1 in HR and # 1 in RBI's in the AL. Uh, good research considering Josh Hamilton has 11 more RBI than Quentin.
ESPN and BBTN blows....

That was #1 in HR and RBIs on the Sox, not the AL.

kittle42
05-29-2008, 09:51 AM
I have no problem with people venting in post game threads because, as you said, that's what they are for. It's the gameday threads I was talking about staying out of. The hate for a player while the game is still going on is unbelieveable. The hate for players not even playing in the game is ridiculous. For example, Dwayne Wise gets his first start and is ripped mercilously. It's the guys first start in the bigs this season. Is it necessary to blast him him? And then someonwe chimes in with "Even Swisher's replacement sucks." *****.

There was also a comment predicting a double play based on... :dunno:

Now before anyone says it, I know that if i don't want to read things like that then I should stay out of the gameday threads, and that's exactly what I was saying in my post. The pessimism and negativity displayed in these threads even though the team is in first place is mind boggling. I really found it funny that people were constantly bitching about the offense while ignoring the fact that Gavin kept us in the game until the offense picked him up.

OK...my rant is over. :redneck


I'm that way even when I'm watching at the park! :D:

MisterB
05-29-2008, 10:05 AM
If he keeps up the numbers from one month of baseball, yes. But overall he is actually hitting .229/.253/.313 in 83 at-bats. That looks pretty Juan Uribesque to me, except Juan has better D and more power so far. Is Juan capable of a hot streak like that? Last Sept/Oct he was .309/.358/.526/.884 in 97 ABs

So you'd rather put more stock in Ramirez's crappy first 30 AB's in the majors than Uribe's 3000+ AB's worth of crappiness? :?:

Uribe is a known quantity. He's already firmly established what he can (and more importatnly, can't) do at the Major League level. Ramirez (and Richar for that matter) are still adjusting to the Major League game and have the potential to get better, which Uribe obviously doesn't have at this point.

balke
05-29-2008, 10:26 AM
So you'd rather put more stock in Ramirez's crappy first 30 AB's in the majors than Uribe's 3000+ AB's worth of crappiness? :?:

Uribe is a known quantity. He's already firmly established what he can (and more importatnly, can't) do at the Major League level. Ramirez (and Richar for that matter) are still adjusting to the Major League game and have the potential to get better, which Uribe obviously doesn't have at this point.


I try not to get sucked in with the Luis Terrero effect as much as possible. I think people freak out about 2B way too much this season. The problem is not 2B, its that 1B, DH, CF are hitting like 2Bman or worse. I have a lot more faith in Ramirez than Richar at this point with potential at being a better offensive 2Bman than Uribe. But to me its a bit early to say it as if its a fact.

Both Ramirez and Uribe can play multiple positions. I think it is best to keep both of them around in the event of injury to anyone. Uribe is the primary starter, with Ramirez getting significant time as a bench player, with the opportunity to take over that position if he's going to hit .300 for an extended period of time and prove he's not just on a decent string of 50 at-bats. If that is his peak, its a pretty mild peak.

Craig Grebeck
05-29-2008, 10:28 AM
I am confident that Richar is the best 2B in this organization. Uribe is a great utility IF to have and Ramirez really could benefit from some time in the minors.

kitekrazy
05-29-2008, 10:36 AM
Imagine how Indians fans feel. The Indians have lost five of six to the White Sox this week and last. In losing two of three games at home, the Indians in each of the defeats had more than one hitter come up in a situation where a single could have ended the game in their favor.


I wonder if fans are asking for the firing of their hitting coach. I think they are below the Sox in team avg.

palehozenychicty
05-29-2008, 10:59 AM
If he keeps hitting, then move him to CF when Richar is ready. Re-sign Cabrera and next year Swish moves to RF as Dye goes to DH.


Not too sure if that'll happen unless some hugs take place between him and Ozzie.

Pear-Zin-Ski
05-29-2008, 11:02 AM
On Ramirez's slide home on the sac fly by Quentin early in the game, watching the Injuns broadcast their announcers thought he clearly missed the plate. I thought he definitely got the back corner of the plate. What do you guys think?

Comcast replayed an angle that clearly showed where the home plate ump was looking from and year Alexi clearly came away with the run...he did infact touch the very rear end of the plate....

Nice to see Alexi go all out on that play...he is impressing me more and more even though his swing looks SO akward....

palehozenychicty
05-29-2008, 11:02 AM
Not that simple to see millions of $$$$ and experience walk when you are in 1st place, for an unproven kid.

Actually 2 unproven kids.


C'mon. Uribe's salary in today's revenue structure is chump change. I know that the Sox are ultra-conscious of their pennies, but Uribe is hardly worth what he's receiving and shouldn't block Ramirez nor Richar from playing regularly.

kittle42
05-29-2008, 02:13 PM
I am confident that Richar is the best 2B in this organization.

Tallest midget.

voodoochile
05-29-2008, 02:18 PM
Tallest midget.

You have NO clue whether that is true or not. Both Richar and Ramirez are seeing their first extended time in the majors. Both have great pedigrees and both of them have fantastic athletic ability.

It's one thing to say, Uribe sucks. He's had plenty of time to prove his suckiness, but this desire to be the first guy to jump on the "so and so sucks" bandwagon is weak sauce.

kittle42
05-29-2008, 02:31 PM
You have NO clue whether that is true or not. Both Richar and Ramirez are seeing their first extended time in the majors. Both have great pedigrees and both of them have fantastic athletic ability.

It's one thing to say, Uribe sucks. He's had plenty of time to prove his suckiness, but this desire to be the first guy to jump on the "so and so sucks" bandwagon is weak sauce.

OK. Right now, tallest midget.

Generally, I am with you, voodoo. Uribe is the worst option of the three, as at least the other two have potential. I'm just saying that I never understood why anyone saw anything in Richar from last year. I feel Ramirez can be good. He's raw, though, and thus, for right now, I include him in the "midget" group.

But, yes, unless we can snag a Brian Roberts or some such player, Ramirez/Richar should be playing every day.

TDog
05-29-2008, 02:45 PM
On Ramirez's slide home on the sac fly by Quentin early in the game, watching the Injuns broadcast their announcers thought he clearly missed the plate. I thought he definitely got the back corner of the plate. What do you guys think?

The umpire called him safe and the run counted. There is no appeal to a higher authority. The replay isn't going to take the run away. Homer announcers will whine about the umpiring if their team losess whether or not they are justified. The point is moot.

voodoochile
05-29-2008, 02:48 PM
OK. Right now, tallest midget.

Generally, I am with you, voodoo. Uribe is the worst option of the three, as at least the other two have potential. I'm just saying that I never understood why anyone saw anything in Richar from last year. I feel Ramirez can be good. He's raw, though, and thus, for right now, I include him in the "midget" group.

But, yes, unless we can snag a Brian Roberts or some such player, Ramirez/Richar should be playing every day.

Richar looked pretty solid last year in his time in the majors or a guy seeing his first MLB action ever. He ended up with 18 XB hits in 187 AB and posted a .756 OPS in September. Now whether that's all due to facing inferior pitching or he started to get comfortable or a combination of the two we won't know until he gets more time in non-callup months. He certainly deserves a chance to show what he can do because he didn't look completely lost. Heck any player who can average 60-65 XBH over the course of a season deserves a chance to play their way off the team.

His glove and instincts are as good as Uribe from what I recall too. If Ramirez can beat him out, then great, one less thing to worry about, but I'd be perfectly happy giving Richar a shot at the job once he is healthy. He was supposed to open the season as our starting 2B, so like it or not, eventually he's going to see some PT there. Hopefully he makes the most of that time.

Kogs35
05-29-2008, 02:50 PM
Richar looked pretty solid last year in his time in the majors or a guy seeing his first MLB action ever. He ended up with 18 XB hits in 187 AB and posted a .756 OPS in September. Now whether that's all due to facing inferior pitching or he started to get comfortable or a combination of the two we won't know until he gets more time in non-callup months. He certainly deserves a chance to show what he can do because he didn't look completely lost. Heck any player who can average 60-65 XBH over the course of a season deserves a chance to play their way off the team.

His glove and instincts are as good as Uribe from what I recall too. If Ramirez can beat him out, then great, one less thing to worry about, but I'd be perfectly happy giving Richar a shot at the job once he is healthy. He was supposed to open the season as our starting 2B, so like it or not, eventually he's going to see some PT there. Hopefully he makes the most of that time.

richard was optioned to aaa today per the sox website

chaotic8512
05-29-2008, 02:51 PM
So you'd rather put more stock in Ramirez's crappy first 30 AB's in the majors than Uribe's 3000+ AB's worth of crappiness? :?:

Uribe is a known quantity. He's already firmly established what he can (and more importatnly, can't) do at the Major League level. Ramirez (and Richar for that matter) are still adjusting to the Major League game and have the potential to get better, which Uribe obviously doesn't have at this point.

Totally agreed.

The only reason that Uribe even had a shot of playing 2B in the first place was because there was no way this team was going to swallow his salary. I don't care how good his glove his, seasons and seasons of being below .240 AVG, .300 OBP is, in every way, unacceptable. And, like the above poster has alluded to, he's going to find it miraculously at any point.

Seeing as how Alexei is improving when comparing the April and May numbers, I think we should just stick with Ramirez as a starter when Uribe comes off the DL, but keep Juan on the bench for the experience, occasional pop aspect.

And if Richar begins to tear up in AAA, that's when we address where he fits.

FielderJones
05-29-2008, 03:01 PM
richard was optioned to aaa today per the sox website

BB Richard came out of retirement?

October26
05-29-2008, 03:57 PM
BB Richard came out of retirement?



Wow. There is a name from my baseball memory vault.

gobears1987
05-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Reading the crap in the Gameday threads makes me feel like I'm on the MLB forums. Now there are some very intelligent contributors to the Gameday threads, but there are also some less than intelligent posters. Half of the crap that gets written in those threads belongs in the roadhouse.

balke
05-30-2008, 09:36 AM
Totally agreed.

The only reason that Uribe even had a shot of playing 2B in the first place was because there was no way this team was going to swallow his salary. I don't care how good his glove his, seasons and seasons of being below .240 AVG, .300 OBP is, in every way, unacceptable. And, like the above poster has alluded to, he's going to find it miraculously at any point.

Seeing as how Alexei is improving when comparing the April and May numbers, I think we should just stick with Ramirez as a starter when Uribe comes off the DL, but keep Juan on the bench for the experience, occasional pop aspect.

And if Richar begins to tear up in AAA, that's when we address where he fits.


I disagree for this team. Uribe you know what you have. Its crappy, but its not enough to cripple the team. He's a veteran with solid D, he's got power, and he gets hot streaks.

This is a winning team right now. You have 2 guys who can play SS at 2B. They both can play additional positions beyond that. If they bring up Richar, he's pretty limited to 2B. I agree with keeping him in AAA. Let Ramirez and Uribe do what they are doing, and give yourself flexibility to rest all your starters.

I think Ramirez has more potential than Richar at this point, mainly since he was the HR king of Cuba. Instead of rolling the dice on 2B with two young guys, you keep the Vet IMO. I think you keep Pablo too since he's so good against Lefties in his career and is faster than Richar.

If Richar ends up hitting .320 in the minors with 6 HRs by the all-star break, bring him on up. Seeing how poorly he did in winter league ball, I think its pretty unlikely.

jabrch
05-30-2008, 09:43 AM
Half of the crap that gets written in those threads belongs in the roadhouse.

And the other half belongs on a Yahoo message board.

BadBobbyJenks
05-30-2008, 04:12 PM
Reading the crap in the Gameday threads makes me feel like I'm on the MLB forums. Now there are some very intelligent contributors to the Gameday threads, but there are also some less than intelligent posters. Half of the crap that gets written in those threads belongs in the roadhouse.

You don't think people calling Paulie a douche bag is intelligent? The craziest part is a lot that non sense is said while the Sox are winning.

voodoochile
05-30-2008, 04:24 PM
You don't think people calling Paulie a douche bag is intelligent? The craziest part is a lot that non sense is said while the Sox are winning.

No you don't understand if the Sox don't grab the lead in their first at bat and then extend it ever at bat thereafter, they suck...

It's weak, timid sauce is what it is and the fools fall all over each other trying to one up themselves for biggest fool in the thread.