PDA

View Full Version : OC Called Press Box to Complain about Error?


DickAllen72
05-25-2008, 11:33 PM
I was watching CLTV's sports talk show after the game tonight and they mentioned that during a game last week Orlando Cabrera actually called up the press box twice to complain about the official scorer giving him an error on a play.

Did anyone else hear about that? This was the first I heard of it, but if it's true I don't like it.

chisoxmike
05-25-2008, 11:34 PM
I didn't hear about this. If its true, he needs to be disciplined.

itsnotrequired
05-25-2008, 11:35 PM
I didn't hear about this. If its true, he needs to be disciplined.

Agreed. Calling the pres box during the game is grounds for a beatdown.

Personally, I don't believe the claim.

oeo
05-25-2008, 11:55 PM
I didn't hear about this. If its true, he needs to be disciplined.

I don't think this is an uncommon occurence. Hawk mentioned something like this happening a lot earlier in the year (I don't remember exactly what the subject was).

Even if it's not...who cares? Disciplined? Are you serious?

chisoxmike
05-26-2008, 12:07 AM
I don't think this is an uncommon occurence. Hawk mentioned something like this happening a lot earlier in the year (I don't remember exactly what the subject was).

Even if it's not...who cares? Disciplined? Are you serious?

Players should not be calling the press box. Period.

oeo
05-26-2008, 12:26 AM
Players should not be calling the press box. Period.

You know what they should and should not be doing?

I think Cabrera is being a little bitch by doing it, but he shouldn't be disciplined.

soxfan43
05-26-2008, 01:30 AM
I think a code red a few good men style is in order for cabrera doing this.

Nellie_Fox
05-26-2008, 01:33 AM
I think a code red a few good men style is in order for cabrera doing this.Punctuation and capitalization would make this sentence much easier to decode.

gf2020
05-26-2008, 04:28 AM
This seemingly confirms it:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/968733,CST-SPT-deluca25.article

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2008, 09:02 AM
If true, I'm even less impressed and more disappointed with Cabrera.

The Immigrant
05-26-2008, 09:12 AM
I think Cabrera is being a little bitch by doing it, but he shouldn't be disciplined.

I'm not condoning what he did, but given how important the Gold Glove is to his marketability (and he is, after all, in a walk year), I can understand why he did it.

:rolleyes: at the disciplinarian above.

Lillian
05-26-2008, 09:33 AM
Last night O. C. continued to frustrate. In a close pitcher's dual, which T.C.Q. won with that amazing walk off homer, Cabrera came up with a runner at first, and no out. Instead of trying to hit behind the runner, into the big hole on the right side of the infield, or trying to lay down a bunt, he swings away and hits a fly ball to left.

I know that he did get two or the Sox' only six hits but where is his highly vaunted ability to be a great number two hitter in the lineup? I haven't seen any of that, have you?

Save McCuddy's
05-26-2008, 10:40 AM
I'm seeing a guy who used to be a dangerous pull hitter losing his bat speed and failing to come up with a fall back plan. He is a black hole in the lineup.

fquaye149
05-26-2008, 10:49 AM
Last night O. C. continued to frustrate. In a close pitcher's dual, which T.C.Q. won with that amazing walk off homer, Cabrera came up with a runner at first, and no out. Instead of trying to hit behind the runner, into the big hole on the right side of the infield, or trying to lay down a bunt, he swings away and hits a fly ball to left.

I know that he did get two or the Sox' only six hits but where is his highly vaunted ability to be a great number two hitter in the lineup? I haven't seen any of that, have you?

And one of those two hits was essentially worthless, as he did a wishy washy triple-stretch that got him gunned down by 4 steps

The Immigrant
05-26-2008, 10:53 AM
He is one of 5 black holes in the lineup.

That's more like it.

fquaye149
05-26-2008, 10:55 AM
That's more like it.

sure, but besides Uribe, he's the worst. And Uribe's not in our lineup anymore

DickAllen72
05-26-2008, 11:43 AM
This seemingly confirms it:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/968733,CST-SPT-deluca25.article
Trade him to the Cubs. He'd fit right in over there.

TomBradley72
05-26-2008, 12:14 PM
Pathetic.

OC is a big disappointment so far...I can accept the struggling batting average. But this is pathetic. Just pathetic. I'm disappointed that Ozzie is condoning this. It's about as far from a team focus during a game as you can go.

Craig Grebeck
05-26-2008, 12:17 PM
OC has been utter **** all year. I can't wait 'til we let that ******* walk and take the compensation picks.

turners56
05-26-2008, 01:06 PM
Orlando's AL leading Field% among shortstops must have him real weary of a costly error. Maybe he should be more weary of his .228 average and .285 OBP.

turners56
05-26-2008, 01:06 PM
Trade him to the Cubs. He'd fit right in over there.

He and Kent Mercker could be best buddies. Oh wait, where is Mercker now?

hawkjt
05-26-2008, 01:34 PM
I refuse to believe he could hit .301 with 86 rbis last year and be this bad all year this year. I think the other nite he seemed pissed about an error he was given so I do think he is very aware of that.
Now, according to Hawk and DJ he is a good leader in the clubhouse for the latin players so maybe he has some intangible stuff going on. But at the plate he has been very suspect...swings so hard every time..seems like he used to be more of a all-field contact hitter with a line drive swing.
If he does not pick it up, I will be surprised and very disapointed. As for re-signing him...Joe come first. Alexi can move over next year.

Domeshot17
05-26-2008, 02:34 PM
I think part of Orlando's problem is the weather. He has usually been on warm weather teams (played in a dome in Montreal for most his career, > half a year in boston, then 2 with the Angels). He also comes from a warm weather country. To him these 60* nights might be the coolest he is used too. I think he will heat up with the weather.

BadBobbyJenks
05-26-2008, 03:08 PM
I like Orlando Cabrera:shrug:

dickallen15
05-26-2008, 03:18 PM
I think part of Orlando's problem is the weather. He has usually been on warm weather teams (played in a dome in Montreal for most his career, > half a year in boston, then 2 with the Angels). He also comes from a warm weather country. To him these 60* nights might be the coolest he is used too. I think he will heat up with the weather.
He played most of his career in Montreal. There was no dome it was open at the top.

TommyGavinFloyd
05-26-2008, 03:21 PM
I don't see what the big deal is about this. In fact, I kind of like it.

Gavin
05-26-2008, 03:25 PM
Bush

BadBobbyJenks
05-26-2008, 03:50 PM
He played most of his career in Montreal. There was no dome it was open at the top.

Well actually it was a retractable roof.

The Immigrant
05-26-2008, 05:37 PM
It's so nice to see another Chris De Luca hatchet job get a predictable response from some Sox fans. Really, who gives a **** if he called the official scorer to complain? The article gives the impression that he called the broadcasters (hence the references to Mercker earlier in the thread), but that wasn't the case - and I will guarantee you that he's not the first, or the last, Sox player to complain to the official scorer.

I hope that De Luca bait tasted better than it smelled.

Brian26
05-26-2008, 05:53 PM
How does one, while playing a major league baseball game, have:

a.) access to a telephone?
b.) the direct phone number to the press box?
c.) time to actually make a call?

Are the dugouts in Toronto wired to call directly to the press box? I can't imagine they are. The questions on this could go on forever. Did Cabrera use a Rogers Centre phone or his own mobile phone? If he made the call from Toronto, does he get charged international minutes, or does his calling plan cover that? Does his have all 30 MLB press boxes on speed dial on his cell phone? Wasn't Farmio the resident official scorer bully? If Farmio didn't take care of this, does that mean he doesn't like Cabrera?

I don't have a problem with Cabrera caring about his stats. Frank Thomas was notorious for reading the paper everyday before the game to check his average and rbi totals. What's troubling, if this story is true, is that Cabrera was doing this during the game. That's insane. He should be studying the pitcher and focusing on ways to get on base. Save the scorer-bullying for after the game.

TomBradley72
05-26-2008, 06:03 PM
It's so nice to see another Chris De Luca hatchet job get a predictable response from some Sox fans. Really, who gives a **** if he called the official scorer to complain? The article gives the impression that he called the broadcasters (hence the references to Mercker earlier in the thread), but that wasn't the case - and I will guarantee you that he's not the first, or the last, Sox player to complain to the official scorer.

I hope that De Luca bait tasted better than it smelled.

If it's true I don't see how it's a hatchet job. Focusing on ANYTHING other than winning the game being played is bull****. When you're paid millions of dollars, 100% focus for a few hours each day is not too much to ask.

Sockinchisox
05-27-2008, 02:03 AM
Ozzie is ticked, and Cowley says the Sox and Cabrera will most likely part ways after this season.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/971582,CST-SPT-sox27.stng

Ranger
05-27-2008, 03:39 AM
How does one, while playing a major league baseball game, have:

a.) access to a telephone?
b.) the direct phone number to the press box?
c.) time to actually make a call?

Are the dugouts in Toronto wired to call directly to the press box? I can't imagine they are. The questions on this could go on forever. Did Cabrera use a Rogers Centre phone or his own mobile phone? If he made the call from Toronto, does he get charged international minutes, or does his calling plan cover that? Does his have all 30 MLB press boxes on speed dial on his cell phone? Wasn't Farmio the resident official scorer bully? If Farmio didn't take care of this, does that mean he doesn't like Cabrera?


There are two phones in the dugout and I think it's pretty standard. One wired to the bullpen, the other is a general phone which can call the press box. That's how the media relations guys will often times get injury info to pass on to the media members in the box. During the time when BP is going on, I've seen the PR guys us it to call the audio/video control room for stuff or call the front desk if they need someone paged.

As for scorekeeper decisions, you'll often times see disagreements about a ruling in the press box. It's actually quite funny. A play will happen, the scorer will announce to the press box his ruling, and then all of the writers will immediately start grumbling and some will even do some yelling their objections. Then you might see him watch the replay and then change his decision. Happens fairly frequently. I've seen it in more than one park.

TDog
05-27-2008, 04:24 AM
...
a.) access to a telephone?
b.) the direct phone number to the press box?
c.) time to actually make a call? ...

Players have been making telephone calls from the dugout and the bullpen for years. If you're resourceful, numbers are available. At the Cell, the press box might be an inside call with a three- or four-digit extension. In the 1960s, Moe Drabowsky, who later worked as a White Sox minor league instructor, was notorious for making prank calls from the bullpen. I read years ago that he ordered pizza, called Sophia Loren long distance and called the opposing bullpen with instructions to get a pitcher up. Some of that might have been exaggeration, but well-documented was an incident after his retirement when he called the Orioles bullpen from outside and imitated Earl Weaver demanding to get a pitcher up.

Over the years, I've heard of other players calling the pressbox during the game to complain about the official scoring. I can't recall who they were. It sounds like something Royce Clayton would do. I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Thomas had done such a thing. As a designated hitter, he would have been able to go to the clubhouse when his team was on defense.

Other players doing it doesn't make it right, of course. And it would irk writers, who would, well, write about it. The incident doesn't upset me as much as it upsets the media.

Ziggy S
05-27-2008, 08:41 AM
Orlando Cabrera meet Royce Klayton

Lillian
05-27-2008, 09:39 AM
I'm glad he's going to be a F.A., and I hope that his apparent selfishness will be sufficient motivation to assure that he puts up good numbers in this his contract year.

I hope his production will be good enough to merit retaining his Type A status. The Sox could gamble on offering arbitration. If he accepts it would mean that we have him for one year at about $7 million. If not we get the draft picks.

In either case, I would expect that the projected #8 pick Gordon Beckham will be at short by around 2010. In the meantime I would like to see how Alexi would do there.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2008, 11:54 AM
As you all probably know that does happen where a player will call the press box and talk to the official scorer, I'm not saying it's a good thing to do in any case but it does happen. Not often but it does.

To me what I found most interesting was Joe Cowley's 'conclusion' (for want of a better word) that talks between Cabrerra and the Sox are dead and that he'll be leaving after the season.

The Sox may be looking for a shortstop next off season since Ramirez looks to be headed to second and there is no one ready in the minors.

I wonder if any shortstops will be available via free agency.

Lip

mweflen
05-27-2008, 12:05 PM
This is what we gave up Jon Garland for? An aging, weak-stick stat hound who makes $10 mil and will walk after the season?

I'd rather have a season of Garland at $12 mil plus his compensation picks if he were truly to have walked after this season.

skottyj242
05-27-2008, 12:07 PM
I think a code red a few good men style is in order for cabrera doing this.


So you think the a couple of the players should kill him? :scratch:

hawkjt
05-27-2008, 12:39 PM
Based on just what I have seen, Orlando has not really played like he was anything but a hired gun,albeit one that needs to have a good year for his next contract. I hope he catches fire at the plate and no one will care about the phone calls if he never does it again. But I do not think he likes the cold weather and so he will look to move on. I think we can get a good year out of him which makes it a push with Garland ,imo. They both are FA's and we let OC walk and put Alexei in there. Re-sign Joe, cheap guys like Alexei and Richar in the middle, and away we go.

Stoky44
05-27-2008, 12:41 PM
So you think the a couple of the players should kill him? :scratch:

Code reds do not imply death. Infact a code red should never end in death.

LoveYourSuit
05-27-2008, 01:27 PM
This is what we gave up Jon Garland for? An aging, weak-stick stat hound who makes $10 mil and will walk after the season?

I'd rather have a season of Garland at $12 mil plus his compensation picks if he were truly to have walked after this season.



I still wanted Garland traded.

If Galrand was not traded we would never know how good Gavin or Danks can be.


Cabrera better put up allstar numbers the rest of the way if he plans to win my heart again, I can't stand this kind of crap. I played in college with a bunch of stat freaks and I wanted to punch each and one of them in the face.

Swisher and Cabrera have been mega dissapointments.

Craig Grebeck
05-27-2008, 01:49 PM
For the record, Cabrera will net us Type A compensation, something Garland would never. He would get Type B.

turners56
05-27-2008, 03:29 PM
Ozzie is ticked, and Cowley says the Sox and Cabrera will most likely part ways after this season.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/971582,CST-SPT-sox27.stng

Cowley says a lot of things. He said Uribe was going to get waived, it never happened.

turners56
05-27-2008, 03:32 PM
For the record, Cabrera will net us Type A compensation, something Garland would never. He would get Type B.

To add on about this whole trade. Garland has a ERA in the 4s and is not that impressive the last time we saw him. If the Sox kept Garland, either Floyd or Danks would not be pitching right now. So, in a way, getting a gold glove shortstop who is leading the league in Fielding% to make way for two young phenoms, plus a Type A compensation is not a bad deal. And it looks like Orlando is starting to hit the ball now. I swear, he loves hot weather and those high knee socks or something. He went 2-4 with them on Sunday and 4-6 yesterday.

TomBradley72
05-27-2008, 04:22 PM
The Sox may be looking for a shortstop next off season since Ramirez looks to be headed to second and there is no one ready in the minors.

I wonder if any shortstops will be available via free agency.

Lip

My guess is they're tabbing Ramirez for SS in 2009 with Getz/Richar getting a shot at 2B. Getz is having a great year at Charlotte.

Side note: With Quentin, Anderson, Swisher, Fields, Ramirez, Getz, Richar + Danks, Floyd, Logan....KW might have pulled off a pretty nice transformation to a young (and inexpensive) "core" of players.

Sockinchisox
05-27-2008, 04:29 PM
Cabrera is boycotting talking to all newspapers but the Tribune, from Cowley.

turners56
05-27-2008, 04:30 PM
Cabrera is boycotting talking to all newspapers but the Tribune, from Cowley.

I guess he and Mark Gonzalez must be buddies.

Stoky44
05-27-2008, 04:32 PM
Another thing that bugs me about Cabrera is why the second the last out is made his jersey is untucked. Watch him after every game they win. Before he even gets to the mound to celebrate with the team he has his jersey untucked.
I don't know why but it drives me nuts. He looks ridiculous.

Sockinchisox
05-27-2008, 04:33 PM
Another thing that bugs me about Cabrera is why the second the last out is made his jersey is untucked. Watch him after every game they win. Before he even gets to the mound to celebrate with the team he has his jersey untucked.
I don't know why but it drives me nuts. He looks ridiculous.

That's been his routine for as long as I can remember watching him play.

turners56
05-27-2008, 05:42 PM
That's been his routine for as long as I can
remember watching him play.

Most likely superstition.

SoxGirl4Life
05-27-2008, 05:46 PM
Cabrera is boycotting talking to all newspapers but the Tribune, from Cowley.


He's also reporting that Cabrera was overheard talking to the Tribune saying that he (Cabrera) doesn't feel that Ozzie has his back--and that Kenny has addressed the situation face-to face with him.

Ummm... i don't like this.

turners56
05-27-2008, 05:48 PM
He's also reporting that Cabrera was overheard talking to the Tribune saying that he (Cabrera) doesn't feel that Ozzie has his back--and that Kenny has addressed the situation face-to face with him.

Ummm... i don't like this.

Remember, Cowley and his incredibly inaccurate reporting over these past months is not credible! For all we know, he could be trying to sell more papers.

southsideirish71
05-27-2008, 05:50 PM
Remember, Cowley and his incredibly inaccurate reporting over these past months is not credible! For all we know, he could be trying to sell more papers.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/

Well Gonzales also says something similar, so maybe its not just conjecture after all.

SoxGirl4Life
05-27-2008, 05:51 PM
Remember, Cowley and his incredibly inaccurate reporting over these past months is not credible! For all we know, he could be trying to sell more papers.


True. 'cept that Mark Gonzales also has a blurb about "Team turmoil" quoting the same thing.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/05/team-turmoil.html

cheezheadsoxfan
05-27-2008, 05:54 PM
Dotel has an argument with the conditioning coach and it's Team Turmoil:scratch:

TomBradley72
05-28-2008, 09:42 AM
Thanks for bringing your awesome leadership to the White Sox OC. Enjoy wherever you land in 2009 (some nice warm city where your manager whipes your nose, tucks you in at night and makes sure your precious fielding percentage isn't damaged by the big mean official scorers).

I'm sure your pitching staff loves how their ERA goes up after your lobbying efforts.

Thome25
05-28-2008, 11:08 AM
Cabrera seems like a real pud and he's not playing all that great on top of it. The sooner he leaves the better. At the end of 2008 hopefully KW says to him "See ya Orlando don't let the door hit you on the way out."

TDog
05-28-2008, 11:47 AM
Cabrera seems like a real pud and he's not playing all that great on top of it. The sooner he leaves the better. At the end of 2008 hopefully KW says to him "See ya Orlando don't let the door hit you on the way out."

If the White Sox win their division and go deep in the postseason this year, Cabrera will be a big part of it. The Sox could deal a couple of players to improve the team. Swisher and Fields wouldn't hurt the Sox with their departure and could probably bring the Sox players that could help in the future. But the Sox aren't going to find a better shortstop or a better lead off hitter than Cabrera this year, pud or not.

btrain929
05-28-2008, 11:52 AM
If the White Sox win their division and go deep in the postseason this year, Cabrera will be a big part of it. The Sox could deal a couple of players to improve the team. Swisher and Fields wouldn't hurt the Sox with their departure and could probably bring the Sox players that could help in the future. But the Sox aren't going to find a better shortstop or a better lead off hitter than Cabrera this year, pud or not.

You don't trade 3 of your top prospects for a guy, then trade him when his value is at an all-time low. He'll turn it around, and he's going to be here for a long time. Now if we can somewhat sign Crede to an extension, Fields would be a great trading chip, but I don't think you can do that until an extension is finalized. If that doesn't happen, Crede might be the one traded to fill a hole. His stellar defense, which is the main reason people rave about him and where a lot of his value comes, has been absent this year.

thomas35forever
05-28-2008, 12:04 PM
If the White Sox win their division and go deep in the postseason this year, Cabrera will be a big part of it. The Sox could deal a couple of players to improve the team. Swisher and Fields wouldn't hurt the Sox with their departure and could probably bring the Sox players that could help in the future. But the Sox aren't going to find a better shortstop or a better lead off hitter than Cabrera this year, pud or not.
True, just like the Sox might not have won the World Series without Crazy Carl. Every rose has its thorn I guess.

DickAllen72
05-28-2008, 05:08 PM
True, just like the Sox might not have won the World Series without Crazy Carl. Every rose has its thorn I guess.
Carl was a positive force in the clubhouse. He was one of the team leaders in 2005. Cabrera apparently has been a negative in the clubhouse and he has not shown much good on the field.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 05:42 PM
Carl was a positive force in the clubhouse. He was one of the team leaders in 2005. Cabrera apparently has been a negative in the clubhouse and he has not shown much good on the field.

Link?

Source?

Cabrera is having one heck of a defensive season - one of his best ever with numbers or near and in some cases above his career highs in most major defensive categories and better than Uribe put up last year or any year since joining the Sox.

Add in the fact that Cabrera is currently outhitting Juan by a WIDE margin and leads the team in stolen bases, I simply cannot fathom what you are thinking.

fquaye149
05-28-2008, 06:19 PM
Link?

Source?

Cabrera is having one heck of a defensive season - one of his best ever with numbers or near and in some cases above his career highs in most major defensive categories and better than Uribe put up last year or any year since joining the Sox.

Add in the fact that Cabrera is currently outhitting Juan by a WIDE margin and leads the team in stolen bases, I simply cannot fathom what you are thinking.

And he gets even better with each call to the scorer's table!!!!!!

Are you kidding me? Look--I can understand a generic support for our current players, but Cabrera is a poor player with the stick this year, and is not playing by most accounts, outstanding SS. He's also quite clearly a bit of a ********er, between his scorer's booth bull****, his crap with Renteria, his claim that Scioscia is head and shoulders above all other managers (including his current manager), and this latest tiff between him and Ozzie.

Why does everything have to be spin zone with you, in terms of allowing no negative things to be said about current players or management no matter how accurate?

Lip Man 1
05-28-2008, 06:43 PM
Well remember Royce Clayton had a great fielding percentage as well.

:D:

Lip

Noneck
05-28-2008, 06:48 PM
This whole situation blows my mind. I have been following baseball for about 1/2 a century and I have never heard about players or managers talking to official scorers to change their calls. How long has this been going on?

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 06:56 PM
And he gets even better with each call to the scorer's table!!!!!!

Are you kidding me? Look--I can understand a generic support for our current players, but Cabrera is a poor player with the stick this year, and is not playing by most accounts, outstanding SS. He's also quite clearly a bit of a ********er, between his scorer's booth bull****, his crap with Renteria, his claim that Scioscia is head and shoulders above all other managers (including his current manager), and this latest tiff between him and Ozzie.

Why does everything have to be spin zone with you, in terms of allowing no negative things to be said about current players or management no matter how accurate?

It doesn't.

His RF and ZR are also excellent - in line or better than the alternative. Oh and his stick isn't great (though improving recently) but compared to Uribe it's not even close. I don't see this other crap mattering that much to the team and last I checked said team was doing just fine.

This other stuff is overblown until OG or KW says differently...

Brian26
05-28-2008, 07:45 PM
Carl was a positive force in the clubhouse. He was one of the team leaders in 2005. Cabrera apparently has been a negative in the clubhouse and he has not shown much good on the field.

Link?

Source?

Carl doesn't get a lot of credit for what he did, but there are several stories floating around. I've mentioned this one in particular here before. Supposedly down the stretch in 2005 when the Sox were struggling, Everett walked into the clubhouse and saw AJ and someone else watching a college football game. He turned off the tv and told them to get to work.

There's the story about how he paid for the entire team's steak dinner together in Minnesota on the first road trip that year. He even called Kenny Williams in to join the team when he saw him walking down the street by himself.

Everett took Willie Harris under his wing after he got called back up from Charlotte and helped instill some confidence in him.

Maybe the best documented example was when he went after Garner in the World Series.

fquaye149
05-28-2008, 07:51 PM
It doesn't.

His RF and ZR are also excellent - in line or better than the alternative.


Defensive metrics are ****ty measures of a player's ability.

My opinion from watching him play is he is quite rusty at SS. Many "experts" agree that he hasn't looked particularly good.

Obviously you are of a different opinion...but Fielding PCT and RF are poor argumentative bases for Cabrera's supposed defensive superiority, especially when the pudding seems to have very little proof (i.e. what I've seen from actually watching games)


Oh and his stick isn't great (though improving recently) but compared to Uribe it's not even close.what the **** are you talking about?

Uribe 2007 #'s: .234/.284/,394

OCAB 2008 #'s: .246/.304/.329

I think that's about the definition of "pretty close" :rolleyes:


I don't see this other crap mattering that much to the team and last I checked said team was doing just fine.Did you check last this afternoon when this team was having a hard time finding consistent hitting and was only up a 2 and a half games in a weak division? Because that's when I checked, and they seemed to have plenty of areas of improvement to the extent that douchebags like Cabrera shouldn't be calling up the scorer's box during a ****ing game or feuding with his ****ing manager.... but you know, we might have checked at different times :shrug:


This other stuff is overblown until OG or KW says differently...
Except that Cabrera is the one bitching about Ozzie and KW HAS addressed that :rolleyes:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080527-orlando-cabrera-ozzie-guillen-white-sox,1,2111738.story

as we're not allowed to quote, let me direct you to the part where Ozzie says something along the lines of that calling the scorer's box during games is something that can cause significant problems among the team, or the last couple paragraphs, right after the part where the writer says that KW seems weary of Cabrera

DickAllen72
05-28-2008, 07:56 PM
Link?

Source?

http://www.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050409&content_id=1010130&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-08-31-majors_x.htm

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-63877.html

TomBradley72
05-28-2008, 08:20 PM
Cabrera is having one heck of a defensive season - one of his best ever with numbers or near and in some cases above his career highs in most major defensive categories and better than Uribe put up last year or any year since joining the Sox.

Add in the fact that Cabrera is currently outhitting Juan by a WIDE margin and leads the team in stolen bases, I simply cannot fathom what you are thinking.

He might be having a great season defensively based on the stats. But watching him play every day...he has not been that impressive. Slightly above average is how I would rate him.

TDog
05-28-2008, 08:29 PM
You don't trade 3 of your top prospects for a guy, then trade him when his value is at an all-time low. He'll turn it around, and he's going to be here for a long time. Now if we can somewhat sign Crede to an extension, Fields would be a great trading chip, but I don't think you can do that until an extension is finalized. If that doesn't happen, Crede might be the one traded to fill a hole. His stellar defense, which is the main reason people rave about him and where a lot of his value comes, has been absent this year.

Ideally you don't trade three of your top prospects for Nick Swisher, but that is what the general manager of the White Sox did. I expressed concerns four months ago that Nick Swisher might never hit in a White Sox uniform, and I'm still waiting.

If the White Sox don't re-sign Crede, the general manager will have to resign himself to finding another third baseman. If the Sox want to win, it won't be Josh Fields. (I wanted to show off the fact that I am a minority on this board in that I know the difference between "re-sign" and "resign.")

For this year, they have a very good defensive shortstop who can provide some offense, a very good third baseman in the majors, an overrated prospect playing third in the minors and an offensive black hole wearing Nick Swisher's uniform.

chaerulez
05-28-2008, 08:31 PM
Cabrera seems to be a bit of a tool. Ozzie stated that he finds calling to the press box personally to complain about stats is a bit selfish, that they have teams reps that will do that for you. Cabrera seems there is nothing wrong with that because numbers don't lie or whatever. You know his OBP that hovers around .300 is a number I'm more concerned about, yet he is too busy whining about errors and whatnot.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 09:04 PM
Defensive metrics are ****ty measures of a player's ability.

My opinion from watching him play is he is quite rusty at SS. Many "experts" agree that he hasn't looked particularly good.

Obviously you are of a different opinion...but Fielding PCT and RF are poor argumentative bases for Cabrera's supposed defensive superiority, especially when the pudding seems to have very little proof (i.e. what I've seen from actually watching games)

Okay, but I don't see the one viable replacement to be a big enough of an upgrade defensively to be worth the drop in offense.

what the **** are you talking about?

Uribe 2007 #'s: .234/.284/,394

OCAB 2008 #'s: .246/.304/.329

I think that's about the definition of "pretty close" :rolleyes:

Did you check last this afternoon when this team was having a hard time finding consistent hitting and was only up a 2 and a half games in a weak division? Because that's when I checked, and they seemed to have plenty of areas of improvement to the extent that douchebags like Cabrera shouldn't be calling up the scorer's box during a ****ing game or feuding with his ****ing manager.... but you know, we might have checked at different times :shrug: I figure Ozzie can handle it and last I checked the clubhouse atmosphere seemed just fine

Nice stats - last year's Uribe is almost as productive as this year's Cabrera and Cabrera is on the rise.

Just curious, have you checked this year's Uribe or last year's Cabrera stats? Any way I look at those same year or even career stats, I'll take Cabrera.

Got a different alternative that doesn't include using Uribe, I'll listen.


Except that Cabrera is the one bitching about Ozzie and KW HAS addressed that :rolleyes:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080527-orlando-cabrera-ozzie-guillen-white-sox,1,2111738.story

as we're not allowed to quote, let me direct you to the part where Ozzie says something along the lines of that calling the scorer's box during games is something that can cause significant problems among the team, or the last couple paragraphs, right after the part where the writer says that KW seems weary of Cabrera
We interpret that article differently. Ozzie seems fine. The words have been spoken, now you see how it goes.

fquaye149
05-28-2008, 09:12 PM
Okay, but I don't see the one viable replacement to be a big enough of an upgrade defensively to be worth the drop in offense.

I'm not saying Cabrera's not an improvement. I'm saying he's a ******** and a mediocre player. He may be an improvement over Uribe on both sides of the ball but JUST BARELY. And that's pretty ****ing sad.


I figure Ozzie can handle it and last I checked the clubhouse atmosphere seemed just fine

Last you checked? Last you checked you know **** about the clubhouse. The fact that anything is coming out in the press even hitting at clubhouse problems should be a red flag to you. All may be well, but signs point otherwise. Ozzie will handle it,sure, I agree, but that doesn't mean that OC isn't a piece of **** and disruptive to the clubhouse--Ozzie has even hinted that himself.


Nice stats - last year's Uribe is almost as productive as this year's Cabrera and Cabrera is on the rise.

So what's your point? You said Cabrera's bat has been BY FAR better than Uribe. It isn't an improvement over Uribe last year, and it isn't even better than Uribe this year. Certainly not "BY FAR" :rolleyes:


Just curious, have you checked this year's Uribe or last year's Cabrera stats? Any way I look at those same year or even career stats, I'll take Cabrera.

What does last year have to do with anything re: Cabrera. We have what we have now. He might get better he might not. But he hasn't represented any kind of significant improvement over Uribe offensively, even though you said his bat has been better BY FAR :rolleyes:


Got a different alternative that doesn't include using Uribe, I'll listen.


I don't. But I didn't say I did. What I said is that your constant spin that Cabrera isn't a problem is ridiculous.

Cabrera is a huge problem for us on the field right now.

He seems to be a considerable problem off the field.

That is an embarrassingly ****ty combination and I'm pretty disappointed that Kenny traded for someone who turned out to be a piece of **** on and off the field. It seems like Kenny is kind of disappointed OC turned out to be a ****head as well.


We interpret that article differently. Ozzie seems fine. The words have been spoken, now you see how it goes.


I didn't say Ozzie doesn't seem fine. Ozzie seems to recognize that OC is pulling some bush **** and that his teammates might be (rightfully) pissed off that Cabrera is being a bush league ****head dip**** who can't pull his weight on the field either.

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 09:49 PM
I'm not saying Cabrera's not an improvement. I'm saying he's a ******** and a mediocre player. He may be an improvement over Uribe on both sides of the ball but JUST BARELY. And that's pretty ****ing sad.



Last you checked? Last you checked you know **** about the clubhouse. The fact that anything is coming out in the press even hitting at clubhouse problems should be a red flag to you. All may be well, but signs point otherwise. Ozzie will handle it,sure, I agree, but that doesn't mean that OC isn't a piece of **** and disruptive to the clubhouse--Ozzie has even hinted that himself.



So what's your point? You said Cabrera's bat has been BY FAR better than Uribe. It isn't an improvement over Uribe last year, and it isn't even better than Uribe this year. Certainly not "BY FAR" :rolleyes:



What does last year have to do with anything re: Cabrera. We have what we have now. He might get better he might not. But he hasn't represented any kind of significant improvement over Uribe offensively, even though you said his bat has been better BY FAR :rolleyes:



I don't. But I didn't say I did. What I said is that your constant spin that Cabrera isn't a problem is ridiculous.

Cabrera is a huge problem for us on the field right now.

He seems to be a considerable problem off the field.

That is an embarrassingly ****ty combination and I'm pretty disappointed that Kenny traded for someone who turned out to be a piece of **** on and off the field. It seems like Kenny is kind of disappointed OC turned out to be a ****head as well.




I didn't say Ozzie doesn't seem fine. Ozzie seems to recognize that OC is pulling some bush **** and that his teammates might be (rightfully) pissed off that Cabrera is being a bush league ****head dip**** who can't pull his weight on the field either.

:prozac:

fquaye149
05-28-2008, 09:53 PM
:shrug:

keep defending Cabrera like he's not playing like **** or acting like a jackass and I'll keep being frustrated by his performance on and off the field.

I don't think it has anything to do with depressing

voodoochile
05-28-2008, 09:55 PM
:shrug:

keep defending Cabrera like he's not playing like **** or acting like a jackass and I'll keep being frustrated by his performance on and off the field.

I don't think it has anything to do with depressing

It helps with the manic cycles too...:tongue: