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Sockinchisox
05-24-2008, 05:51 PM
Salvage the series tomorrow.

gobears1987
05-24-2008, 05:52 PM
Bring out yer dead!


This really sucked. Our pitching did well and we lost because our offense sucked.

turners56
05-24-2008, 05:53 PM
We need to win tomorrow, a sweep here will be incredibly damning.

I'm not trying to sound like Hawk here, but the home plate umpire had one of the most inconsistent strike zones. The whole entire game had a lot of blown calls (I thought Swisher was safe and Anderson was out to be honest, but it got canceled out). But most of the calls went against the Sox.

I don't know what's so great about Jared Weaver, he had a 5.59 ERA before he saw the White Sox this season.

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 05:54 PM
Two good teams have played two good games, they just barely edged them out. Playoff type baseball. Go get them tomorrow.

turners56
05-24-2008, 05:54 PM
Two good teams have played two good games, they just barely edged them out. Playoff type baseball. Go get them tomorrow.

We've been unable to hit this entire series. The Angels have dominated us. The scores don't show it. But they've been in control the past 2 games all the way through.

Mr. White Sox
05-24-2008, 05:54 PM
We need to win tomorrow, a sweep here will be incredibly damning.

I'm not trying to sound like Hawk here, but the home plate umpire had one of the most inconsistent strike zones. The whole entire game had a lot of blown calls (I thought Swisher was safe and Anderson was out to be honest, but it got canceled out). But most of the calls went against the Sox.

I don't know what's so great about Jared Weaver, he had a 5.59 ERA before he saw the White Sox this season.

I thought the ump was consistently bad on calls to the Sox and Angels; it was an unbiased crapzone.

Player of the game aside from Weaver has to be Matthews, as those were two amazing plays.

Sockinchisox
05-24-2008, 05:55 PM
We need to win tomorrow, a sweep here will be incredibly damning.

I'm not trying to sound like Hawk here, but the home plate umpire had one of the most inconsistent strike zones. The whole entire game had a lot of blown calls (I thought Swisher was safe and Anderson was out to be honest, but it got canceled out). But most of the calls went against the Sox.

I don't know what's so great about Jared Weaver, he had a 5.59 ERA before he saw the White Sox this season.

After today's game Weaver in 4 career starts (26.2 IP) against the White Sox has given up 1 total run (It was earned).

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 05:55 PM
We've been unable to hit this entire series. The Angels have dominated us. The scores don't show it. But they've been in control the past 2 games all the way through.


Plenty of balls were hit well, just right at guys. The scores don't show that either.

turners56
05-24-2008, 05:55 PM
I thought the ump was consistently bad on calls to the Sox and Angels; it was an unbiased crapzone.

Player of the game aside from Weaver has to be Matthews, as those were two amazing plays.

Yea, he was inconsistent to both teams. But when Weaver has 6 Ks (most of them looking), I think it somewhat favors the Angels.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 05:56 PM
We need to win tomorrow, a sweep here will be incredibly damning.

I'm not trying to sound like Hawk here, but the home plate umpire had one of the most inconsistent strike zones. The whole entire game had a lot of blown calls (I thought Swisher was safe and Anderson was out to be honest, but it got canceled out). But most of the calls went against the Sox.

I don't know what's so great about Jared Weaver, he had a 5.59 ERA before he saw the White Sox this season.


Bitching about the umpires is not going to get us anywhere.

We need to see the ball and hit the damn think.

Jared Weaver is medicore vs the rest of the league yet he has shut us out for 15 innings this season.

turners56
05-24-2008, 05:57 PM
Plenty of balls were hit well, just right at guys. The scores don't show that either.

I've seen too many pop-ups to right and left field, plus the inability to drive in runners on second with one out is killing me. We've been able to get Cabrera on second in the first inning in both of these games, yet we get Dye and Quentin striking out. This is a total reversal from what we saw against Cleveland. And it's not like the Indians are bad at pitching or anything.

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 05:59 PM
I've seen too many pop-ups to right and left field, plus the inability to drive in runners on second with one out is killing me. We've been able to get Cabrera on second in the first inning in both of these games, yet we get Dye and Quentin striking out. This is a total reversal from what we saw against Cleveland. And it's not like the Indians are bad at pitching or anything.


You're going by two games. Both Angel starters, regardless of their careers or what we think of them , had good stuff on their night. Did Sox hitters help them out on occasion ? Sure, but give some credit where it's due too.

sox1970
05-24-2008, 06:02 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1902427&postcount=167

Agreed.

The Angels have a very deep lineup that can hit for average and some power. They steal bases. They have a nice bullpen.

turners56
05-24-2008, 06:03 PM
You're going by two games. Both Angel starters, regardless of their careers or what we think of them , had good stuff on their night. Did Sox hitters help them out on occasion ? Sure, but give some credit where it's due too.

Of course I'm going by two games, I'm talking about this series alone. Not the entire season. There's no doubt Saunders is a good pitcher, he's shown it against everybody else too. But before Weaver saw the White Sox, he was 2-5 with a 5.59 ERA and got shelled for 8 runs in 3 innings by the Royals in his previous start, THE FREAKING ROYALS! It's obvious the Sox have an incredible discrepancy when facing Weaver. When the Sox face any pitcher with the ability to change speed and use his change up effectively, the entire teams looks lost up there.

Tragg
05-24-2008, 06:03 PM
We've been unable to hit this entire series. The Angels have dominated us. The scores don't show it. But they've been in control the past 2 games all the way through.

We've scored 1 run in 2 games. That's pretty dominant.

Perhaps reconsideration of giving the most at bats on the team to someone who gets on base 28.2% of the time might be in order.

turners56
05-24-2008, 06:04 PM
We've scored 1 run in 2 games. That's pretty dominant.

Perhaps reconsideration of giving the most at bats on the team to someone who gets on base 28.2% of the time might be in order.

Cabrera's done his job getting on base in the first these past two games. It's guys like Quentin, Dye, and Thome that haven't executed to get him in.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 06:06 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1902427&postcount=167

Agreed.

The Angels have a very deep lineup that can hit for average and some power. They steal bases. They have a nice bullpen.


Thanks for finding that quote of mine.

We have the bullpen and starting pitching to match with them. Nothing on the offensive side is similar to them nor I think or defense is as good as theirs. And all this with a bunch of good players of theirs on the DL (Kendrick, Aybar, Figgins).

I honestly think the Angels might be the best team in the AL once they get healthy.


We are light years away from having a well rounded offense like those guys.

DickAllen72
05-24-2008, 06:07 PM
Playoff type baseball.
:rolleyes:

If Pierzynski and Quentin don't get it done, nobody on this team picks them up. You can't make the playoffs relying on a couple of guys throughout the entire season. This team needs some real ballplayers in place of a couple of their all or nothing middle of the order guys.

It's a shame to waste such good pitching because of this lousy offense with it's overpaid under-producing middle of the order.

turners56
05-24-2008, 06:07 PM
Thanks for finding that quote of mine.

We have the bullpen and starting pitching to match with them. Nothing on the offensive side is similar to them nor I think or defense is as good as theirs. And all this with a bunch of good players of theirs on the DL (Kendrick, Aybar, Figgins).

I honestly think the Angels might be the best team in the AL once they get healthy.


We are light years away from having a well rounded offense like those guys.

They had their crap lineup out there today and still beat us. I mean seriously, Mathis, Wood, and Rodriguez were automatic outs down in the bottom of the order. Those guys killed two of their rallies. Imagine if they did have Aybar and Kendrick. We would of been roasted today.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 06:08 PM
We've scored 1 run in 2 games. That's pretty dominant.

Perhaps reconsideration of giving the most at bats on the team to someone who gets on base 28.2% of the time might be in order.


But who leads off then?

We don't have a lead off hitter and we are almost in June now. To be in first place right now is almost a miracle or just good luck that this division sucks right now.

turners56
05-24-2008, 06:08 PM
:rolleyes:

If Pierzynski and Quentin don't get it done, nobody on this team picks them up. You can't make the playoffs relying on a couple of guys throughout the entire season. This team needs some real ballplayers in place of a couple of their all or nothing middle of the order guys.

It's a shame to waste such good pitching because of this lousy offense with it's overpaid under-producing middle of the order.

When Quentin and Dye aren't hitting, this entire offense is as good as the Seattle Mariners.

Let's hope Minnesota loses to Detroit today so we don't lose any ground in the division.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 06:10 PM
They had their crap lineup out there today and still beat us. I mean seriously, Mathis, Wood, and Rodriguez were automatic outs down in the bottom of the order. Those guys killed two of their rallies. Imagine if they did have Aybar and Kendrick. We would of been roasted today.


Socia IMO is the best manager in baseball. He finds ways to win with crappy in-experienced players. They remind me of the Twins style.

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:10 PM
When Quentin and Dye aren't hitting, this entire offense is as good as the Seattle Mariners.

Let's hope Minnesota loses to Detroit today so we don't lose any ground in the division.


Take the 2 best hitters out of any lineup and it'd be the same story.

DickAllen72
05-24-2008, 06:11 PM
Cabrera's done his job getting on base in the first these past two games. It's guys like Quentin, Dye, and Thome that haven't executed to get him in.
Dye and especially Quentin have been doing their part but they can't be expected to come through every day, day in and day out. Thome hasn't done much all year and he's the highest paid player on the team and all he is responsible for is hitting--he plays no position in the field. He hasn't been doing his job very well at all. Ditto Konerko and Swisher so far.

turners56
05-24-2008, 06:14 PM
Socia IMO is the best manager in baseball. He finds ways to win with crappy in-experienced players. They remind me of the Twins style.

Without the annoyance of journeymen ball players. At least the Angels grow their crap.

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:15 PM
Without the annoyance of journeymen ball players. At least the Angels grow their crap.


Yeah it was good to see Vlad and Hunter work their way up the Halo's system with such ease.

MsSoxVixen22
05-24-2008, 06:17 PM
What an utter disappointment! Danks keeps us in the game and we can't score! :angry: We can't rely on TCQ and AJ all the time. Something needs to be done about Thome. I'm sorry but when is he going to start hitting? He stood there and LOOKED at 3 pitches and didn't even try and swing for crying out loud! As much as I like Swisher, he needs to start hitting too. Today was pretty much the same thing as last night. Gavin keeps us in the game and we couldn't score then either! With our divison the way it is, we need to win as many games as possible. We go right to Cleveland after this, IIRC. If we get swept, and I really hope we don't, it could be a major setback. Get it together boys and win tomorrow!

sox1970
05-24-2008, 06:18 PM
Yeah it was good to see Vlad and Hunter work their way up the Halo's system with such ease.

Aybar, Kotchman, Kendrick, Napoli, Mathis, Figgins, Weaver, Lackey, K-Rod, Saunders, Willits, Shields, Anderson...

Lip Man 1
05-24-2008, 06:19 PM
This number could come back to haunt the Sox big-time in September: 7 (and counting...)

That's the number of games already LOST by the Sox even though they held the opponent to THREE RUNS OR LESS.

My God, you've got to win those games...you are throwing great pitching performances right down the toilet.

Lip

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:19 PM
Aybar, Kotchman, Napoli, Mathis, Figgins, Weaver, Lackey, K-Rod, Saunders, Willits, Shields, Anderson...


Take Hunter and Vlad off and use that as your lineup and they'd finish below the Rangers.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 06:20 PM
Yeah it was good to see Vlad and Hunter work their way up the Halo's system with such ease.

Speaking of Hunter, man I wish Hunter was here rather than Swisher.

We might be going for the sweep tomorrow rather than facing sweep.

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:20 PM
This number could come back to haunt the Sox big-time in September: 7 (and counting...)

That's the number of games already LOST by the Sox even though they held the opponent to THREE RUNS OR LESS.

My God, you've got to win those games...you are throwing great pitching performances right down the toilet.

Lip


While that's an interesting stat, I wonder what other teams have in that category.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 06:21 PM
This number could come back to haunt the Sox big-time in September: 7 (and counting...)

That's the number of games already LOST by the Sox even though they held the opponent to THREE RUNS OR LESS.

My God, you've got to win those games...you are throwing great pitching performances right down the toilet.

Lip


You got that right Lip.

We just keep pissing away quality start after quality start.

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:26 PM
You got that right Lip.

We just keep pissing away quality start after quality start.


8-2 in the last 10 doesn't quite back that up.

Brian26
05-24-2008, 06:27 PM
Playoff baseball is all about pitching, and both of these games have been pitcher's duels, decided on one swing of the bat. Dye was at the plate in the 9th last night with the tying runs in scoring position. The Angels won by two lousy runs today. Hell of a job by Masset and Dotel in relief. Floyd and Danks have been more than solid. The Angels are a damn good team...let's get them tomorrow. These two losses are far from being dominated though.

Lip Man 1
05-24-2008, 06:28 PM
I see where whitesox.com has another story about Ozzie "not concerned" about the offense.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080524&content_id=2761358&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Maybe that was just a mistake by the headline writer but after what we have seen with this team since July 06 or at the very least the 2007 season how can you NOT be "concerned" with the way the offense has looked?

Maybe I'm missing something.

Lip

Tragg
05-24-2008, 06:30 PM
But who leads off then?

We don't have a lead off hitter and we are almost in June now. To be in first place right now is almost a miracle or just good luck that this division sucks right now.


Although is unfettered presence at leadoff annoys me, I can understand keeping Cabrera there - his numbers are so bad, that one figures they have to revert to his career averages (which are much better, although not leadoff quality).
I would just shake it up some. My choices would be Dye, Ramirez, Anderson. Dye because he can hit and get on base; I hesitate because he doesn't have wheels and we need him to drive in runs.
As for Ramirez and Anderson, well, they are young hitters and perhaps one might blossom at leadoff. I know that neither shows much O right now. But perhaps that would change. I don't see a lot of risk considering Cabrera isn't hitting. Ozzie's put Ozuna there before; he put Timo there before.

Our pitching's been great and we've hit some homers - that's why we're in first. It would really help if Swisher would start hitting....Paul, Jim - they're getting up there. But Nick is coming into his prime age.

One edit, the one I'd really try for sure is Richar when he returns. I was really suprised he wasn't given any time atop the order late last summer.

thomas35forever
05-24-2008, 06:38 PM
The offense was just held in check today and yesterday. I know it's still early, but I wouldn't like our chances against the Angels if we met them in the postseason. Avoid the sweep tomorrow.

regionsox73
05-24-2008, 06:43 PM
All the Kool-Aid I would like to drink... The fact remains we cannot hit. Like watching MLS Soccer where 1-0 can be insurmountable.

That little winning streak saved Walker's job. 81-81 won't get us in the playoffs. On the current 25-man roster you have keep Quentin (oh my God a guy who can hit above .250, hit a HR and steal a base!) and the pitching. Move or get rid of the other parts. Build around that. Maybe let Dye DH- his defense is getting sub-Carl Everett at times. He is so slow. Maybe keep Swisher at full-time 1B. If Crede is a steal, sign him up if he wants to get huge money part ways. You have to do something with Thome. Keep AJ around but he is in his 30s now- what is the best case for a catcher? Start grooming one for the future. Beef up the roster up the middle. CF, SS, 2B. Those guys may very well be within the organization, but it has to be quality.

I mean I was excited with the 8 straight, but it followed losing 6 straight and preceded losing 2 straight. Last 16 we are 8-8.

Woofer
05-24-2008, 06:43 PM
This offense looks really weak right now, especially with Konerko out.

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:43 PM
The offense was just held in check today and yesterday. I know it's still early, but I wouldn't like our chances against the Angels if we met them in the postseason. Avoid the sweep tomorrow.


People said the same in 2005, when Angels Coliseum was seen as a "house of horrors".

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:44 PM
This offense looks really weak right now, especially with Konerko out.


Yeah because Paul's been killing the ball this year.

regionsox73
05-24-2008, 06:45 PM
:scratch:8-2 in the last 10 doesn't quite back that up.
8-8 in last 16.

Tragg
05-24-2008, 06:46 PM
The offense was just held in check today and yesterday. I know it's still early, but I wouldn't like our chances against the Angels if we met them in the postseason. Avoid the sweep tomorrow.
I think they are a tough matchup for us too. But we struggled with them in 05 as well. Oakland too. Both were near the top in pitching.

Brian26
05-24-2008, 06:48 PM
That little winning streak saved Walker's job. 81-81 won't get us in the playoffs.

26-22 right now, which translates to 88 wins over a 162-game schedule. That might just be enough to win the AL Central, and, as the Cardinals proved, anyone can get hot and win the World Series.

I'll take our pitching against anyone in the playoffs. Playoff baseball is all about pitching.

In fact, if I had a choice between the 2000 Sox (murder's row and no pitching) or this 2008 team, I'd take my chances with the '08 squad in the playoffs.

thomas35forever
05-24-2008, 06:49 PM
I think they are a tough matchup for us too. But we struggled with them in 05 as well. Oakland too. Both were near the top in pitching.
True. So why does everyone else on this board think these last two games are defining the season? The Angels are one of the top pitching and hitting teams in the league. I'm not saying the Sox are WS-caliber this year, so why are people acting like the Angels should be a piece of cake? Are they going to be like this again if we lose our first two games against the Red Sox? Good Lord. Calm down everybody.

Sockinchisox
05-24-2008, 06:50 PM
:scratch:
8-8 in last 16.

What are you talking about? We're 11-5 in our last 16.

regionsox73
05-24-2008, 06:51 PM
In fact, if I had a choice between the 2000 Sox (murder's row and no pitching) or this 2008 team, I'd take my chances with the '08 squad in the playoffs.

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Ugh! :)

Patrick134
05-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Ugh! :)
If the pitching is really as good as it's been so far, the Sox will be fine. if it isn't, it won't matter what the offense does.

regionsox73
05-24-2008, 06:55 PM
What are you talking about? We're 11-5 in our last 16.

My bad- I lost my train of thought. 12-12 since April 29.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 07:18 PM
In fact, if I had a choice between the 2000 Sox (murder's row and no pitching) or this 2008 team, I'd take my chances with the '08 squad in the playoffs.

Hindsight is 20/20 when you see the end result of 2000....no **** I wouldn't take that option today. I bet you and many Sox fans thought we were winning that World Series when we clinched the division that year. We had the best record in the AL.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2008, 07:21 PM
8-2 in the last 10 doesn't quite back that up.


Did you miss the point Lip was making?


We have lost 7 games already this season and lead that world in this category when our pitching only gives up 3 runs. It has nothing to do with that 8-2 run all you guys hang your hat on to defend a miserable offense.

Time to Wake up.

kevin57
05-24-2008, 07:28 PM
I completely agree. Great pitching is need #1, and we're doing okay, but a team does need to score something to win.

We need a blockbuster trade...to shed ourselves of "big name" but "no production" hitters. We are still relying on the HR to salvage us. We just don't have the "get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in."

MetroPD
05-24-2008, 07:43 PM
Weaver came in with a 4.73 ERA with an Opp BA of .266, our offense went 3 for 29........

turners56
05-24-2008, 08:02 PM
Yeah it was good to see Vlad and Hunter work their way up the Halo's system with such ease.

So you're saying Guerrero and Hunter are crap? :scratch:

turners56
05-24-2008, 08:05 PM
Take Hunter and Vlad off and use that as your lineup and they'd finish below the Rangers.

That's the equivalent of taking Quentin and Dye out of our lineup. We'd be worse off than the Royals.

RadioheadRocks
05-24-2008, 08:10 PM
Let's hope Minnesota loses to Detroit today so we don't lose any ground in the division.


Going into the bottom of the sixth, the Twinkies are holding up their end of the bargain... Detroit's annihilating them 19-3!!!!!!

Vernam
05-24-2008, 08:11 PM
Speaking of Hunter, man I wish Hunter was here rather than Swisher.Especially because we gave away one of our best fake prospects to get Swish, whose nickname has taken on an unfortunate meaning. :cool: Rick Hahn appeared live today on the Score and WMVP, yet Levine, Coppock, and Rongey declined to ask him about the Wilder scandal. Good journalism there.

Ah, the game . . . Thome finally got a bunt hit toward third, though it was a swinging bunt. :thumbsup: Swisher hit a double but managed to get thrown out at second. Not really his fault, I guess. Anderson hit a real double.

Now that I'm done recapping our offense (didn't take long, did it?), I'll just say that another fine outing by Danks was wasted.

Hahn had the same sound bite in both interviews: "If we were winning games 8-7, I'd be worried. But our offense clearly has a huge upside," he said, because so many guys in our lineup haven't played to their capability yet. :whistle::rip: (That's called whistling past the graveyard.)

I honestly dread the prospect of Thome's release, but at this point, I dread even more the sight of him at bat. There's no way Kenny can allow his $13M 2009 option to get vested. Is there?

Vernam

turners56
05-24-2008, 08:11 PM
Going into the bottom of the sixth, the Twinkies are holding up their end of the bargain... Detroit's annihilating them 19-3!!!!!!

Good.

turners56
05-24-2008, 08:13 PM
Especially because we gave away one of our best fake prospects to get Swish, whose nickname has taken on an unfortunate meaning. :cool: Rick Hahn appeared live today on the Score and WMVP, yet Levine, Coppock, and Rongey declined to ask him about the Wilder scandal. Good journalism there.

Ah, the game . . . Thome finally got a bunt hit toward third, though it was a swinging bunt. :thumbsup: Swisher hit a double but managed to get thrown out at second. Not really his fault, I guess. Anderson hit a real double.

Now that I'm done recapping our offense (didn't take long, did it?), I'll just say that another fine outing by Danks was wasted.

Hahn had the same sound bite in both interviews: "If we were winning games 8-7, I'd be worried. But our offense clearly has a huge upside," he said, because so many guys in our lineup haven't played to their capability yet. :whistle::rip: (That's called whistling past the graveyard.)

I honestly dread the prospect of Thome's release, but at this point, I dread even more the sight of him at bat. There's no way Kenny can allow his $13M 2009 option to get vested. Is there?

Vernam

It looks like Thome can't even make contact with a off-speed pitch anymore. The Sox releasing him will almost cause as much of a stir as Big Frank getting released by Toronto. It wouldn't be the worst idea, Fields deserves a shot up here this season.

thomas35forever
05-24-2008, 08:16 PM
Going into the bottom of the sixth, the Twinkies are holding up their end of the bargain... Detroit's annihilating them 19-3!!!!!!
Good God. Are these the same Tigers we've been seeing throughout the year?:o:

RadioheadRocks
05-24-2008, 08:17 PM
Good God. Are these the same Tigers we've been seeing throughout the year?:o:

As long as they're getting it out of their system before we face them again that's fine with me! :D:

cws05champ
05-24-2008, 08:21 PM
My bad- I lost my train of thought. 12-12 since April 29.
And were 26-22 since March 30th... You can draw good or bad numbers over a certain period in a full season to skew the "results".

turners56
05-24-2008, 08:21 PM
As long as they're getting it out of their system before we face them again that's fine with me! :D:

I'm watching some of the highlights. Boof Bonser just looked bad, the Twins god forbidden, have made so many dumb plays. Miguel Cabrera over-ran the signal at 3rd and scored from first on a double down the line. Bonser threw away a bunt to 3rd that scored a run. And with the bases loaded, Inge struck out swinging, the ball gets away, Mauer couldn't find it and Polanco scored. The Twins are just having one of those nights. Magglio Ordonez also has 2 homers and 6 RBIs in this one.

spiffie
05-24-2008, 08:22 PM
26-22 right now, which translates to 88 wins over a 162-game schedule. That might just be enough to win the AL Central, and, as the Cardinals proved, anyone can get hot and win the World Series.

I'll take our pitching against anyone in the playoffs. Playoff baseball is all about pitching.

In fact, if I had a choice between the 2000 Sox (murder's row and no pitching) or this 2008 team, I'd take my chances with the '08 squad in the playoffs.
2000 Sox pitched just fine in the regular season (4th in the AL in ERA). Sadly their top two pitchers were obviously not 100% in the playoffs, as evidenced by the fact that they really never pitched again after that season. (Parque had 70.6 innings over three more seasons, Sirotka never pitched in the majors again.)

And really, the last game being lost 2-1 sounds just like this year's group.

October26
05-24-2008, 08:39 PM
The results of the last couple of Sox games have been very disappointing. The Angels have a few players out injured (Figgins, Aybar) and they still beat us. Both Floyd (Friday) and Danks (Saturday) pitched well enough to win. I feel bad for our young pitchers. Let's get 'em tomorrow.

TDog
05-24-2008, 09:33 PM
We need to win tomorrow, a sweep here will be incredibly damning. ...

That's a bit overstated. A sweep would be a third loss in a row, which wouldn't be good. It wouldn't be incredibly bad because the Angels aren't in the Sox division. The Angels likely won't be in the wild card race because they likely will finish first by a comfortable margin in their division.

Losing three to the Angels in May wouldn't be as bad as losing three games to the Indians or Twins or Tigers or Royals.

I am happy the White Sox play in the Central because I think it gives them an easier unbalanced schedule.

Lip Man 1
05-24-2008, 09:52 PM
One thing for sure, the Sox have been very streaky in May...

L4, W1, L1, W3, L3, W8, L2

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-24-2008, 09:55 PM
Spiffie:

Make that the top four pitchers.

Baldwin was never the same after his arm injury caused him to miss a month that late July / August and Eldred didn't get his screw out until the final week of the regular season after hurting his arm vs. St. Louis in July.

And that doesn't even count the injuries to the bullpen guys.

Lip

Dick Allen
05-24-2008, 10:12 PM
Spiffie:

Make that the top four pitchers.

Baldwin was never the same after his arm injury caused him to miss a month that late July / August and Eldred didn't get his screw out until the final week of the regular season after hurting his arm vs. St. Louis in July.

And that doesn't even count the injuries to the bullpen guys.

LipThe fact remains, the Sox stopped hitting in the playoffs in '00, much like they did in '83. And this year, they continue to not hit. Even during the 8-game winning streak, with a couple of exceptions, they didn't hit. I don't want to hear about how good the opposing pitchers are.

RadioheadRocks
05-24-2008, 10:21 PM
Both Magglio and Jered Weaver's pics are on the Top Performers on the ESPN MLB scoreboard page... it's pretty comical ("which one's long hair is girlier???"). :rolling:

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/5889.jpg (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3728) http://assets.espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7708.jpg (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6479)

Tragg
05-24-2008, 10:28 PM
True. So why does everyone else on this board think these last two games are defining the season? The Angels are one of the top pitching and hitting teams in the league. I'm not saying the Sox are WS-caliber this year, so why are people acting like the Angels should be a piece of cake? Are they going to be like this again if we lose our first two games against the Red Sox? Good Lord. Calm down everybody.We have scored 4 or fewer in 7 of the last 10; 3 or fewer in 5 of the last 10. That's light. Also, during the last few series, we missed a lot of aces: Ciff Lee, Linsecum (sp) and we missed Hernandez. Key hitters are having off years: Konerko, Thome and Swisher. The Sox score a lot of runs off the homer. And the Sox aren't that far removed from last year, in which we had the most impotent offense in all of baseball.
Together, the club should be nervously cautious about its run scoring.

Domeshot17
05-24-2008, 10:28 PM
Was at the game, We are so damn streaky. The offense really does live and die on the 3 run HR this year.

I really don't care we are losing to good pitching. The best teams, the playoff teams, win no matter who is on the mound. If we want to win a world series, and if we make the playoffs, we will have to hit someones number 1 and 2.

One thing I noticed, and the problem with building your team around low average high OBP guys, no one is stepping up with the big hit. Thome needs to be benched, and I have never been in favor of benching veterans, but he is hurting us right now. No other way to look at it, he just is not giving us anything.

I also think it might be time to give TCQ a rest. 2 aweful throws from RF today, bad ABs at the plate, give him a breather.

spiffie
05-24-2008, 11:02 PM
One thing I noticed, and the problem with building your team around low average high OBP guys, no one is stepping up with the big hit. Thome needs to be benched, and I have never been in favor of benching veterans, but he is hurting us right now. No other way to look at it, he just is not giving us anything.

Right now we're a team of low average, low OBP guys. If Swisher and Thome were getting on base at clips like they were last year it might be a different story. But in the month of May their OBP's are 292 for Thome and 273 for Swisher. This isn't an issue with focusing on guys who get on base the "wrong way", this is a problem with guys who can't get on base at all. Thome had a 411 OBP last year and Swisher had a 381. If they were living up to last year's numbers (along with Cabrera and Konerko, two more guys underperforming in all ways) things would be much different right now.

JB98
05-24-2008, 11:24 PM
Was at the game, We are so damn streaky. The offense really does live and die on the 3 run HR this year.

I really don't care we are losing to good pitching. The best teams, the playoff teams, win no matter who is on the mound. If we want to win a world series, and if we make the playoffs, we will have to hit someones number 1 and 2.

One thing I noticed, and the problem with building your team around low average high OBP guys, no one is stepping up with the big hit. Thome needs to be benched, and I have never been in favor of benching veterans, but he is hurting us right now. No other way to look at it, he just is not giving us anything.

I also think it might be time to give TCQ a rest. 2 aweful throws from RF today, bad ABs at the plate, give him a breather.

Bench these guys in favor of whom? We are already without Konerko and Uribe because of injury. That forces Ramirez and Anderson into the everyday lineup.

We have a bench of Wise, Hall and Ozuna. Do you see any great offensive help there? I don't.

We CANNOT afford to take Quentin out of the lineup under any circumstances. As much as Thome is struggling, I can't justify taking him out of the lineup either. At least there's a threat that Thome might do something big, which is more than I can say for hitters like Wise and Ozuna.

LoveYourSuit
05-25-2008, 12:17 AM
Bench these guys in favor of whom? We are already without Konerko and Uribe because of injury. That forces Ramirez and Anderson into the everyday lineup.

We have a bench of Wise, Hall and Ozuna. Do you see any great offensive help there? I don't.

We CANNOT afford to take Quentin out of the lineup under any circumstances. As much as Thome is struggling, I can't justify taking him out of the lineup either. At least there's a threat that Thome might do something big, which is more than I can say for hitters like Wise and Ozuna.

Exactly right. I probably have the fastest trigger on this board when it comes to screaming out for a firing or benching but look in the bench and down in Charlottte and this team/franchise is as thin as a sheet of paper. There is nothing better right now there. We have backed ourselves into a corner here and must allow and pray for these veterans to break out and start producing.

Way too much stock was put on this slow aging bunch and now Dye, Konerko, & Thome all have the right to reject any trade. They are not going anywhere.

Only change I will make from here out is to play Anderson every day and start using Swisher as that super-sub for 1B/DH/OF the rest of the way. Swisher has become neck and neck to Thome as the biggest offensive liability on this team. Jerry Owens right now should be slamming his head on a brick wall for not taking advantage of this huge Window which was opened for him since this offense is so bad right now. He is so bad in the minors that the Sox have not made the call to get him up here, that is sad considering how bad the lead off situation on this team is right now.

FarWestChicago
05-25-2008, 07:23 AM
This number could come back to haunt the Sox big-time in September: 7 (and counting...)

That's the number of games already LOST by the Sox even though they held the opponent to THREE RUNS OR LESS.

My God, you've got to win those games...you are throwing great pitching performances right down the toilet.

LipLip, it's good to see you inventing yet another doomsday stat. The usual hand wringing in this thread was pretty pedestrian. :cool:

CWSRULE
05-25-2008, 08:59 AM
[COLOR=Teal]Rick Hahn appeared live today on the Score and WMVP, yet Levine, Coppock, and Rongey declined to ask him about the Wilder scandal. Good journalism there.


Might have something to do with that line in the press release saying the White Sox can't talk about it because the feds are involved. Kind of tough to fault ESPN and the Score for that (and kind of ridiculous to think they didn't think of asking him.)

Vernam
05-25-2008, 09:15 AM
Lip, it's good to see you inventing yet another doomsday stat. The usual hand wringing in this thread was pretty pedestrian. :cool:Hey, I put some moderately serious effort into my hand wringing! We just came off an 8-game win streak, so what do you expect? :tongue:

Might have something to do with that line in the press release saying the White Sox can't talk about it because the feds are involved. Kind of tough to fault ESPN and the Score for that (and kind of ridiculous to think they didn't think of asking him.)Journalists are not bound by the fact that the Sox don't want to talk about a subject. Often, that's exactly what distinguishes between a journalist and whatever the hell Bruce Levine and Chet Coppock are. (I'll exempt Rongey, because he's good at what he does, is the Sox's official post-game host, and doesn't seem to have pretensions to journalism, unlike the other two.)

If it were an interview with one of the presidential candidates, would you think it's acceptable for the reporter to ignore a messy topic because he/she "doesn't want to talk about it?" I didn't question why Hahn wasn't discussing it -- that's damn obvious. But sports journalists seem not to have learned a lesson from their head-in-the-sand years of ignoring steroids.

Don't get me wrong, because I'd love for the Wilder story to go away. But it's amazing that the local media haven't dug further into it. I'd be surprised if someone isn't quietly working on a story, because it's just not like them to overlook a juicy mess like this one.

Vernam

Lip Man 1
05-25-2008, 11:55 AM
Vernam:

I asked Chet about this and the first thing he said was "ground-rules" then he said the reason it wasn't done was because it wouldn't be fair to Hahn as a friend of Williams as well as his right hand guy to "spring" that situation on him during an interview. He said it was simply common courtesy.

Take it for whatever that's worth to you. I infer from the "ground-rules" remark that Hahn said before hand he wouldn't answer any questions about that situation and that the hosts (Coppock, Levine and probably Chris) agreed to that stipulation.

And JB is right, it's not like the Sox have any real options. They are stuck with what they have at least until the trade deadline comes closer. They are between a rock and a hard place on this with little help in the minor leagues and not many options at the big league level. Maybe in a few years things will change down on the farm.

Lip

Crede24Thome25
05-25-2008, 07:27 PM
can anyone explain tome why Ozzie continues to put Thome in when he has been struggling this bad why not put Konerko at DH:angry:.

voodoochile
05-25-2008, 07:31 PM
can anyone explain tome why Ozzie continues to put Thome in when he has been struggling this bad why not put Konerko at DH:angry:.

Because it's the hitting that PK needs a break from. That's what is affected by and aggravates the hand injury.

jabrch
05-25-2008, 07:34 PM
can anyone explain tome why Ozzie continues to put Thome in when he has been struggling this bad why not put Konerko at DH:angry:.

1) Konerko is out of the lineup getting rest for an injured hand.

2) Thome is a proven solid slugger - there is reason to believe he will work his way out of it.

3) Good MLB teams don't make kneejerk reactions. Look at the dimwits than run the Jays - they quit on a struggling .167/.306/.333 Frank Thomas, cut him, and the As have a slugging .306/.412/.506 Frank Thomas. You don't quit on Jim Thome. You support him and know that if he improves, you will benefit.

jabrch
05-25-2008, 07:37 PM
We need to win tomorrow, a sweep here will be incredibly damning.

I'm not trying to sound like Hawk here, but the home plate umpire had one of the most inconsistent strike zones. The whole entire game had a lot of blown calls (I thought Swisher was safe and Anderson was out to be honest, but it got canceled out). But most of the calls went against the Sox.

I don't know what's so great about Jared Weaver, he had a 5.59 ERA before he saw the White Sox this season.

:chickenlittle


Don't you think that's a bit much?

fusillirob1983
05-25-2008, 09:50 PM
Quick question - I may have missed something during the game yesterday. I was at the game in right field and was really confused about Ozzie being ejected. I just read in ESPN's box score that he was ejected for arguing balls and strikes. If AJ struck out swinging, then what pitches was Ozzie arguing about?

gogosox16
05-25-2008, 09:53 PM
Quick question - I may have missed something during the game yesterday. I was at the game in right field and was really confused about Ozzie being ejected. I just read in ESPN's box score that he was ejected for arguing balls and strikes. If AJ struck out swinging, then what pitches was Ozzie arguing about?
I was at the game also and Ozzie was arguing about the overall game calling cause of the incosistency that was going on and the way his players were reacting to the calls, and zone

Brian26
05-25-2008, 09:58 PM
If AJ struck out swinging, then what pitches was Ozzie arguing about?

The second (called) strike in AJ's at-bat. It looked way off the outside corner. K-Rod is difficult enough to face, but the difference between 1-1 and 0-2 is almost insurmountable. AJ had no chance trying to protect against K-Rod hook at that point. That's what upset both AJ and OG.

MeanFish
05-25-2008, 10:22 PM
1) 2) Thome is a proven solid slugger - there is reason to believe he will work his way out of it.

Thome is also 37 years old and one of the most strikeout-prone players pretty much ever. If he's not seeing the ball as well as he once did (which wasn't all that well in the first place), it's not all that unlikely that his performance would resemble this year.

gogosox16
05-25-2008, 10:24 PM
Thome is also 37 years old and one of the most strikeout-prone players pretty much ever. If he's not seeing the ball as well as he once did (which wasn't all that well in the first place), it's not all that unlikely that his performance would resemble this year.
Just wondering, but does anyone have a clue if Thome wears contacts or anything. Just thinking maybe getting older is making vision worse. Just a thought

MeanFish
05-25-2008, 10:47 PM
Just wondering, but does anyone have a clue if Thome wears contacts or anything. Just thinking maybe getting older is making vision worse. Just a thought

It's not an eyesight thing, it's more of a reaction time thing. Ideally, a hitter will be able to get an idea of what pitch has been thrown and where it's going before they start their swing. However, if your reaction time diminishes ever so slightly, that removes a bit of your ability to react to pitches and you instead have to rely more on anticipation -- which leads to some ugly strikeouts when you keyed on the wrong pitch speed or spot.

itsnotrequired
05-25-2008, 11:39 PM
Just wondering, but does anyone have a clue if Thome wears contacts or anything. Just thinking maybe getting older is making vision worse. Just a thought

:rolleyes:

What is this, the Lenscrafters (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79109&highlight=lenscrafters) thread all over agin?