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View Full Version : If we were to send down Wasserman...


jabrch
05-19-2008, 11:27 AM
...(ERA over 29)... who would come up?

Broadway? Whisler? Russell?

TomBradley72
05-19-2008, 11:30 AM
I'd go with Russell. He's been impressing all year at Charlotte and they've been grooming him for a bullpen role. I'd move Massett to Wassermann's role, Russell in Massett's old role.

Broadway needs to stay in Charlotte as a rotation starter in case we need him (Conteras back problems?).

kittle42
05-19-2008, 11:31 AM
Flip a coin several times to decide. Could any of them perform worse than Wassermann has?

Jerko
05-19-2008, 11:35 AM
He might have had a tad less trouble yesterday if he learned how to be in better position after he releases a pitch. That one shot, while it was still a shot, went right past him.

oeo
05-19-2008, 11:54 AM
I'd go with Russell. He's been impressing all year at Charlotte and they've been grooming him for a bullpen role. I'd move Massett to Wassermann's role, Russell in Massett's old role.

Why would you move Massett out of the long relief role, and insert Russell who is going to be exclusively a relief pitcher from here on out?

Lorenzo Barcelo
05-19-2008, 12:01 PM
How about a position player from AAA?

oeo
05-19-2008, 12:03 PM
How about a position player from AAA?

Where's he going to play?

Foulke You
05-19-2008, 12:04 PM
I'd give Wasserman a few more chances to get right handers out. He proved over an extended stretch last year in '07 that he can pitch here at the big league level, especially as a right handed specialist.

kittle42
05-19-2008, 12:11 PM
How about a position player from AAA?

I wouldn't be too opposed to calling up Owens just to pinch run and maybe start once a week.

Jerko
05-19-2008, 12:13 PM
I'd give Wasserman a few more chances to get right handers out. He proved over an extended stretch last year in '07 that he can pitch here at the big league level, especially as a right handed specialist.

I agree he was decent last year but we need a guy who can pitch to more than one batter. We're going thru the bullpen faster than Pamela Anderson goes thru husbands.

Foulke You
05-19-2008, 12:24 PM
I agree he was decent last year but we need a guy who can pitch to more than one batter. We're going thru the bullpen faster than Pamela Anderson goes thru husbands.
That is a good point. We already have one specialist in Logan. If we keep using the bullpen the way we've been, everyone's arm is going to be hanging by July. This is yet another example of how the lack of offense on this team is putting stress on the pitching staff. If we would have put games out of reach like we should have during this road trip, we wouldn't need to use guys like Linebrink, Jenks, and Dotel every single day. I wonder what our total runners stranded was for this road trip. It had to be astronomical. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we went 7W-3L but there is still room for improvement on this squad.

jabrch
05-19-2008, 12:48 PM
I wouldn't be too opposed to calling up Owens just to pinch run and maybe start once a week.

With BA performing well as of late, I wouldn't bring up Owens now to take ABs from him. That's just my opinion - of course - if management decides to do it, I would understand their rationale - Owens does have some speed that really would help this team in particular during interleague play.

infohawk
05-19-2008, 01:00 PM
Flip a coin several times to decide. Could any of them perform worse than Wassermann has?
I have to admit some disappointment in Wasserman. I was in the "keep Wasserman, demote Massett" camp out of spring training. I guess that's why I'm not a paid evaluator of talent! I still think Wasserman can pitch effectively, but apparently not right now.

champagne030
05-19-2008, 01:15 PM
of course - if management decides to do it, I would understand their rationale

:shocked::thud:

JB98
05-19-2008, 06:34 PM
How about a position player from AAA?

I don't think so. Anderson and Ozuna aren't getting much PT as it is. No need to call up somebody else to rot on the bench.

SoxfaninLA
05-19-2008, 07:04 PM
I'd give Wasserman a few more chances to get right handers out. He proved over an extended stretch last year in '07 that he can pitch here at the big league level, especially as a right handed specialist.

The problem with Wasserman is that his stuff just isn't very good. He is kind of a gimmick pitcher. Some guys get by on funky deliveries and things like that for a long time, alot of other ones don't. The problem with guys like that is once their gimmick gets figured out they aren't long for the majors.

The next guy in line to get called up would seemingly be Russell since he was up once already this year but never used. After him you are shopping in the Macdougal/Dewon Day section. Macdougal is an arsonist even in AAA with a scorching 7 walks and 6 hits in 6.2 innings in Charlotte, and I don't think anyone wants to re-create the Dewon Day experience after his stint as a batting tee for us last year.

doublem23
05-20-2008, 12:41 AM
At this point, they could call MacDougal or Sisco back up and I'd be happier with them than Wassermann. Maybe Dewon Day? No, that's too far.

sox1970
05-20-2008, 12:43 AM
At this point, they could call MacDougal or Sisco back up and I'd be happier with them than Wassermann. Maybe Dewon Day? No, that's too far.

MacDougal sucks, and Sisco is out until mid-2009.

Adam Russell would probably get the next callup, but I think they'll give Wassermann some more time.

balke
05-20-2008, 12:53 AM
MacDougal sucks, and Sisco is out until mid-2009.

Adam Russell would probably get the next callup, but I think they'll give Wassermann some more time.

He was sent down with a 2.08 ERA. I'm pretty sure he'd be the first one called back up. I don't see too much of a problem with Wasserman right now though. Even if he's getting knocked around, having that different delivery might be helping those around him. Maybe a little major league EXP can help him better prepare himself for later in this season, or to make a true impact next season.

sox1970
05-20-2008, 12:55 AM
He was sent down with a 2.08 ERA. I'm pretty sure he'd be the first one called back up. I don't see too much of a problem with Wasserman right now though. Even if he's getting knocked around, having that different delivery might be helping those around him. Maybe a little major league EXP can help him better prepare himself for later in this season, or to make a true impact next season.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mike%20MacDougal&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=213680

He's not good.

balke
05-20-2008, 12:58 AM
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mike%20MacDougal&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=213680

He's not good.


Seen it, and in 6IP (3 ER of 5 coming in his last start) that doesn't mean too much to me. They might try Russell, but beyond that Macdougal.

TomBradley72
05-20-2008, 12:59 AM
He was sent down with a 2.08 ERA. I'm pretty sure he'd be the first one called back up.

6.78 ERA, 1.95 WHIP at Charlotte

Domeshot17
05-20-2008, 01:06 AM
The first problem with Wasserman is he throws with Shino like velocity. Good High School pitchers throw harder than he does. I am not saying all good pitchers have high velocity, but mid 80s straight gets shelled, especially when it is right down the middle.

I would bring up Russell and give him a shot, he has such a big arm.

cards press box
05-20-2008, 01:12 AM
I wouldn't be too opposed to calling up Owens just to pinch run and maybe start once a week.

I agree that some speed of the bench would be helpful. I would also be o.k. with the Sox bringing in a veteran bat for the bench. Right now, the Sox' bench lacks a Smokey Burgess/Jerry Hairston type of veteran pinch hitter. I don't know who that would be but a pinch hitter or a speedster like Owens is preferrable to an ineffective 12th pitcher.

Let me add one more question -- does anyone else think that Wasserman's delivery looks more labored than it has in the past? It makes me wonder if he is nursing some kind of injury.

Tragg
05-20-2008, 01:30 AM
What about Broadway? Let him work long relief and move Masset up to a later inning role.
I know Broadway's a starter, but he's pitched a while in AAA and maybe some ML experience would help him.

Foulke You
05-20-2008, 01:55 AM
The problem with Wasserman is that his stuff just isn't very good. He is kind of a gimmick pitcher. Some guys get by on funky deliveries and things like that for a long time, alot of other ones don't. The problem with guys like that is once their gimmick gets figured out they aren't long for the majors.
I agree that he is somewhat of a gimmick pitcher but it is still too soon to say that the league has "figured him out". I think he is just not hitting the spots he was hitting last year. He used to do a good job of hitting the corners on both righties and lefties in 2007. Now, his stuff is catching too much of the plate and you're right, when you are throwing only 86 or so, it is going to get hit hard. There are plenty of successful gimmick pitchers like Chad Bradford, Mike Myers (before he was old), and Pat Neshek so it isn't out of the ordinary for a gimmick pitcher to have sustained success. Heck, even Kelly Wunsch had about 3 good years before injuries caught up to him. I'd give Wasserman a few more outings with a short leash. If he gets lit a few more times, then yeah, let's take a look at Russell.

RadioheadRocks
05-20-2008, 02:02 AM
At this point, they could call MacDougal or Sisco back up and I'd be happier with them than Wassermann. Maybe Dewon Day? No, that's too far.

Trade all of them for what's behind the curtain, Monty.

October26
05-20-2008, 09:15 AM
Let me add one more question -- does anyone else think that Wasserman's delivery looks more labored than it has in the past? It makes me wonder if he is nursing some kind of injury.

Yes, I do think there is something different from last year in his delivery. I hope that Wasserman is not injured. Wasserman is really falling off the mound and his delivery looks more herky-jerky to me than usual, almost like MacDougal's. The good news is that we have a great pitching coach in Don Cooper. I am confident that Coop will do everything he can to help Wasserman get back on track. :cool:

SoxfaninLA
05-20-2008, 11:32 AM
I agree that he is somewhat of a gimmick pitcher but it is still too soon to say that the league has "figured him out". I think he is just not hitting the spots he was hitting last year. He used to do a good job of hitting the corners on both righties and lefties in 2007. Now, his stuff is catching too much of the plate and you're right, when you are throwing only 86 or so, it is going to get hit hard. There are plenty of successful gimmick pitchers like Chad Bradford, Mike Myers (before he was old), and Pat Neshek so it isn't out of the ordinary for a gimmick pitcher to have sustained success. Heck, even Kelly Wunsch had about 3 good years before injuries caught up to him. I'd give Wasserman a few more outings with a short leash. If he gets lit a few more times, then yeah, let's take a look at Russell.

No, I agree a gimmick pitcher can be successful, the guys you listed are perfect examples of that. The problem is that most of these guys, in addition to having a real funky motion, need to have REAL good control. Wasserman is straying too far from the corners, which is there he needs to live. Once he comes back over the plate the ball ends up in the seats or in the gap. You probably don't need to send him down today, although I wouldn't be opposed to it, but he had better be on an extremely short leash. If he has another bad game or two they have to bring up Russell, we can't piss games away letting Wasserman figure out his problems up here.

alohafri
05-20-2008, 12:09 PM
I don't think so. Anderson and Ozuna aren't getting much PT as it is. No need to call up somebody else to rot on the bench.

I'd rather have another bat on the bench than another pitcher for Ozzie to bring in to face one batter.

Gammons Peter
05-20-2008, 12:33 PM
I don't want him sent down, I want him released!

oeo
05-20-2008, 12:33 PM
I don't want him sent down, I want him released!

This makes a ton of sense.

Gammons Peter
05-20-2008, 12:35 PM
He is not nor will he ever be a Major League pitcher

oeo
05-20-2008, 12:36 PM
He is not nor will he ever be a Major League pitcher

Even if this was true...why release him?

Should we just release our entire farm? I mean, most of them don't have a shot anyway, so there's no point in keeping them around.

Gammons Peter
05-20-2008, 12:40 PM
he has zero value

btrain929
05-20-2008, 12:50 PM
What about Broadway? Let him work long relief and move Masset up to a later inning role.
I know Broadway's a starter, but he's pitched a while in AAA and maybe some ML experience would help him.

Masset is not a late inning guy, and Broadway is not a long reliever. The only thing that would come out of that is bad, bad, and more bad.

No.

JB98
05-20-2008, 01:26 PM
I'd rather have another bat on the bench than another pitcher for Ozzie to bring in to face one batter.

Ozzie hasn't been doing that much this year. Dotel and Linebrink are being allowed to face both left-handed and right-handed batters.

Further, we don't have "another bat" in the minors that is worth anything. So, I'd rather keep 12 pitchers.

As an aside, I hope we never see MacDougal in a Sox uniform again. The guy can't find the plate, not even at the triple-A level. He cannot be trusted in key situations. Therefore, he has no business on the roster.

If Wassermann is sent down, recall Russell.

Tragg
05-20-2008, 01:50 PM
Masset is not a late inning guy, and Broadway is not a long reliever.

Why not?
Why not?
Plenty oof good starters have done relief work before hitting the rotation.
Masset pitched pretty well late the other day.

sox1970
05-20-2008, 01:56 PM
Why not?
Why not?
Plenty oof good starters have done relief work before hitting the rotation.
Masset pitched pretty well late the other day.

Agreed on both. If Ozzie could do it over, I think he would have used Masset instead of Dotel whenever he brought in Dotel.

As for Broadway, there's a chance the Sox will have the exact same rotation in 09. I think Broadway could be a valuable long reliever in the second half.

kittle42
05-20-2008, 01:59 PM
Masset pitched pretty well late the other day.

Yes. Once. People get overly excited about one game (i.e. don't rip Juan Uribe - he had 2 hits and 2 RBI today!), and forget that, generally, said player has sucked.

Masset's been throwing well enough. Should he continue to do so in his current role, maybe he will spell the 7th/8th guys a little more. But he needs to establish consistency first.

nedlug
05-20-2008, 06:53 PM
Plenty oof good starters have done relief work before hitting the rotation.

:burly
"Hello?"

rowand33
05-20-2008, 09:54 PM
I'd sooner see MacDougal on the mound than Wasserman.

Even at his worst, MacDougal was never this bad.

FedEx227
05-20-2008, 10:07 PM
:burly
"Hello?"

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/images/headshot_1513.jpg
"What's up?"

BRDSR
05-21-2008, 12:29 PM
...(ERA over 29)... who would come up?

Broadway? Whisler? Russell?

No one. People have been winning with 25 men on their rosters for years. It's time to show that the White Sox can win with 24.