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guillen4life13
05-17-2008, 06:26 PM
He doesn't have a job. I think bringing him on as a coach would be a good idea. I think he could possibly be a very good hitting and baserunning coach (with Jeff Cox) if the Sox ever part ways with Walker. He's still very fit and his hitting fundamentals, at least in his playing days were as good as anyone's--high OBP and walk numbers (2nd on the all-time walks list behind Barroid) complemented by decent home run numbers as a player. IMHO Henderson was the most complete position player to play since

I know he's been accused of being a little too full of himself, but honestly I think, for the most part everything he said was true. I wonder if he would be a good communicator with the players, but he's still pretty fresh out of his playing days and seems like he misses the game.

He could fill almost any coaching job on a team except for pitching and infield/catching defense.

I'm just throwing it at the wall, wondering what you guys think. A lot of your are older than me and saw Henderson in his prime and may have a more accurate feel for his character.

Sargeant79
05-17-2008, 06:31 PM
One thing to remember is that just because someone was a great player, it doesn't mean he will automatically become a great coach. It requires a different skillset. Some great coaches have been very mediocre players, if that, and some great players have turned out to be awful coaches.

Henderson was an amazing, dynamic player when he was in his prime. He was also a character and was known for saying some really off the wall, head scratching stuff. I'm not sure what type of coach he would be, but I think he would have to start off in the minor league ranks first. He was not known as one of those coach on the field guys.

itsnotrequired
05-17-2008, 06:32 PM
I'm not sure what type of coach he would be, but I think he would have to start off in the minor league ranks first. He was not known as one of those coach on the field guys.

He was the Mets' first base coach for the second half of 2007.

Noneck
05-17-2008, 06:44 PM
They had Tim Raines and let him go. I think they would find someone that can get along with Oswaldo and whose price is right.

FedEx227
05-17-2008, 06:45 PM
He was the Mets' first base coach for the second half of 2007.

Is that a compliment?

The Mets absolutely tanked in the 2nd half of 07.

the1tab
05-17-2008, 07:02 PM
He wasn't invited back by the Mets because there were rumors that he was "taking the younger players out on the town all hours of the night" to show them how the self-proclaimed Greatest Player Ever rolls. There were stories back in October that he was seen in clubs in NYC w/ Jose Reyes after 1 AM on a number of occasions.

So not only is he a bad influence, but what value would he add to the White Sox? Is he going to teach Konerko, Thome, Dye, Uribe, AJ and Crede how to read a pitchers move so you can break on first movement and steal a base? C'mon... if we had three players who could steal a base then I might see there being a reason to care about finding a base running coach.

itsnotrequired
05-17-2008, 07:09 PM
Is that a compliment?

The Mets absolutely tanked in the 2nd half of 07.

When was the last time a team tanked because of the first base coach? I'm only 14 years old but I'm gonna say "never".

FedEx227
05-17-2008, 07:10 PM
When was the last time a team tanked because of the first base coach? I'm only 14 years old but I'm gonna say "never".

Oh no, I wasn't really saying the Rickey made them tank, I'm just saying I wouldn't ever want to be someone who associated themselves with the 2nd half of that 2007 Mets team.

guillen4life13
05-17-2008, 07:48 PM
He wasn't invited back by the Mets because there were rumors that he was "taking the younger players out on the town all hours of the night" to show them how the self-proclaimed Greatest Player Ever rolls. There were stories back in October that he was seen in clubs in NYC w/ Jose Reyes after 1 AM on a number of occasions.

So not only is he a bad influence, but what value would he add to the White Sox? Is he going to teach Konerko, Thome, Dye, Uribe, AJ and Crede how to read a pitchers move so you can break on first movement and steal a base? C'mon... if we had three players who could steal a base then I might see there being a reason to care about finding a base running coach.

I wasn't aware of the partying you mentioned in your first paragraph but that's good to know and take into consideration. That said, I'm pretty sure a guy like Reyes would be out at 1 AM regardless of whether Henderson were with him or not. I'm 20 years old (Reyes is 24), and if my class load isn't too heavy or the next day I don't have class until the afternoon, it's likely for me to be awake until 2 or 3 AM, whether studying or having fun. Most MLB games are played at night, ending around 9 or 10 PM. I don't know what time they have to be up to start prepping for the night game. What time do ballplayers generally have to wake up? I'm guessing it's generally not the standard by which most of us probably live (getting up between 6 and 8 AM). And it's not like Reyes had a bad year last year either.

As for your statements in the second paragraph, I see this team having a few players who should be stealing bases for the Sox now or in the very near future as regular full time players: Danny Richar, Orlando Cabrera and Alexi Ramirez. I also think that plate patience is never a bad thing for a hitter to get better at, though I do understand that when men are in scoring position a hit will almost always be better than a walk. Fields will almost definitely be joining this club within a year, and Owens is somewhat likely to do the same as well. Both of them could use help with plate discipline, and both of them have the potential to steal a lot of bases.

For all of Henderson's flaws, no one could dispute that he took his job seriously. Again, I don't know about his communication skills and potential to get through to the players. If he parties with the players, I would be fine with that as long as he has a good influence on their play and isn't doing illegal things with them. As long as it's within reason, I see that as possibly being a good thing by establishing a rapport with his younger players in a mentor type of relationship.

the1tab
05-17-2008, 07:59 PM
Davey Lopes. Tim Raines. I would go as far as to say even someone who wasn't ridiculously fast but stole bases like a Doug Glanville would be a better choice than Henderson. He would want to be the show... having him in the same dugout as Ozzie could be nuclear.

Also, Richar & Fields need to get healthy to get here before they can be stolen base threats, and Cabrera needs to get on base once a night for a coach to give him something to learn.

guillen4life13
05-17-2008, 08:15 PM
Davey Lopes. Tim Raines. I would go as far as to say even someone who wasn't ridiculously fast but stole bases like a Doug Glanville would be a better choice than Henderson. He would want to be the show... having him in the same dugout as Ozzie could be nuclear.

Also, Richar & Fields need to get healthy to get here before they can be stolen base threats, and Cabrera needs to get on base once a night for a coach to give him something to learn.

Your first paragraph here makes complete sense. Rickey+Ozzie could either be the best or worst thing to ever happen to the clubhouse, depending on how well they get along.

However, Richar and Fields will be here sooner rather than later, and I'm not looking just at the situation now, but also how the situation could be at the beginning of next season, when Fields and Richar will, barring any more injuries, be healthy and playing at the major league level.

Cabrera needs to get on base. This is also something Henderson was exceptionally good at. I want to stress that, while Henderson virtually defines the stolen base, he was an exceptional player in other respects also.

Hitting fundamentals were Henderson's strongest suits. He took a lot of walks, made the pitchers throw a lot of pitches, knew how to bunt, move a runner over, etc. These are the types of things that would have actually made a great positive impact on our record thus far and helped the stellar pitching actually show in the standings.

soxfanreggie
05-17-2008, 11:14 PM
If he were to start somewhere in the minors...maybe as a roving instructor...something might be able to work. He'd have a lot of proving to do that he'd be serious about coaching.

Tragg
05-17-2008, 11:46 PM
Cabrera needs to get on base. This is also something Henderson was exceptionally good at. I want to stress that, while Henderson virtually defines the stolen base, he was an exceptional player in other respects also.


Cabrera's 34. he's a hopeless cause. Ramirez needs to learn to get on base and Richar, who has the correct instincts and some of the skills, could use a good coach in that regard as well.
Raines was exceptional at getting on base and Guillen ran him out of town. Both Guillen and Walker, as players, were particularly poor at getting on base and were impatient hitters. So I wouldn't expect Henderson here.
That said, Williams has traded for obp players, and Ozzie was talking the language in the spring, so it would be logical to bring in a coach who knows something about the concept.

fquaye149
05-18-2008, 01:25 AM
Rickey has not been, nor do I think he will ever be, a good coach

areilly
05-18-2008, 02:02 AM
I think this team is sorely lacking in nearly every department Rickey Henderson excelled in.

I also think this team needs more personnel who will refer to themselves in the third person.

There is no good reason why Rickey Henderson cannot fill both of these gaping deficiencies.

Frater Perdurabo
05-18-2008, 07:10 AM
Rickey Henderson might be able to help this offense as its leadoff hitter. :o:

guillen4life13
05-18-2008, 11:13 AM
Rickey Henderson might be able to help this offense as its leadoff hitter. :o:

You said it, not me. I *might* be nodding in agreement though. I'll be willing to bet that Rickey Henderson thinks Rickey Henderson would be able to help this offense as its leadoff hitter.

sullythered
05-18-2008, 11:25 AM
Cabrera's 34.
He's 33.

FireMariotti
05-19-2008, 01:52 AM
When was the last time a team tanked because of the first base coach? I'm only 14 years old but I'm gonna say "never".

A 14 year old who has already downed 17 beers at the park this year.:gulp:

Scottiehaswheels
05-19-2008, 01:56 AM
A 14 year old who has already downed 17 beers at the park this year.:gulp:Gotta have something to wash down the .5 peanut, brat, and large fry... :tongue:

SOXPHILE
05-20-2008, 09:52 AM
Ricky Henderson is as dumb as a bag of hammers.

There's a story about how when he was with the Mariners, he noticed John Olerud wearing the batting helmet while playing first base. He went up to him and said that it was kind of funny, because when he was with Toronto, he played with a guy there who also wore his helmet on the field. John Olerud looked at him and said something to the affect of "Yeah, I know. It was me, you stupid *******. We played on the Blue Jays together too".

areilly
05-20-2008, 10:18 AM
Ricky Henderson is as dumb as a bag of hammers.

There's a story about how when he was with the Mariners, he noticed John Olerud wearing the batting helmet while playing first base. He went up to him and said that it was kind of funny, because when he was with Toronto, he played with a guy there who also wore his helmet on the field. John Olerud looked at him and said something to the affect of "Yeah, I know. It was me, you stupid *******. We played on the Blue Jays together too".

Great story, but you've been had:

http://archive.salon.com/people/bc/2001/10/09/henderson/print.html

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=105;t=000001;p=1

Rickey Henderson knows where Rickey Henderson played and who Rickey Henderson played with.

kobo
05-20-2008, 10:23 AM
“Well, you know, Rickey Henderson has to do what’s best for Rickey Henderson, you know. I mean, if Rickey Henderson feels that Rickey Henderson needs to tape his bat up higher, to be the best Rickey Henderson that Rickey Henderson can be, then Rickey Henderson is going to tape his bat higher in a way that Rickey Henderson can perceive, as Rickey Henderson can, to be the best Rickey Henderson that Rickey Henderson can or will or want to be as Rickey Henderson qualifying in a Rickey Henderson-esque type of way to be a Rickey Henderson for which all Rickey Hendersons around us, being one Rickey Henderson to speak through Rickey Henderson as vessel to reach all Rickey Hendersons out there in the world in a qualitative Rickey Henderson-esque magnanimous display of Rickey Henderson-tude and quality that you can find only in Rickey Henderson as Rickey Henderson as want to do for Rickey Henderson being Ricky Henderson as Rickey Henderson.”

guillen4life13
05-20-2008, 10:59 AM
Ricky Henderson is as dumb as a bag of hammers.

There's a story about how when he was with the Mariners, he noticed John Olerud wearing the batting helmet while playing first base. He went up to him and said that it was kind of funny, because when he was with Toronto, he played with a guy there who also wore his helmet on the field. John Olerud looked at him and said something to the affect of "Yeah, I know. It was me, you stupid *******. We played on the Blue Jays together too".

Rickey Henderson is one of the smartest, savviest baseball players ever. That's all I have to say.

fquaye149
05-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Rickey Henderson is one of the smartest, savviest baseball players ever. That's all I have to say.

Yeah no ****. People confuse eccentric/scatterbrained with dumb. Babe Ruth thought Waite Hoyt's name was Walter, and they played TOGETHER for ten years. Connie Mack called Lou Boudreau, "Mr. Bordiere" and Lefty Grove "Lefty Groves".

I guess those guys were dumb as a bag of hammers too :rolleyes:

asindc
05-20-2008, 11:16 AM
Rickey Henderson is one of the smartest, savviest baseball players ever. That's all I have to say.

True that. If he had been an exceptional defensive player, I would definitely rate him in the top 10 all-time. Getting on base and scoring runs in whatever way possible is unfortunately underrated in baseball today. Blame it on 'roided-up HR hitters.

voodoochile
05-20-2008, 11:20 AM
True that. If he had been an exceptional defensive player, I would definitely rate him in the top 10 all-time. Getting on base and scoring runs in whatever way possible is unfortunately underrated in baseball today. Blame it on 'roided-up HR hitters.

I know LF isn't known for it's defense, but Ricky played the position as well as anyone.

fquaye149
05-20-2008, 11:20 AM
you could make a very very solid argument for Rickey as one of the top 10 players ever to play the game.

Especially if you're just talking about position players

voodoochile
05-20-2008, 11:31 AM
you could make a very very solid argument for Rickey as one of the top 10 players ever to play the game.

Especially if you're just talking about position players

Absolutely. IMO he's the starting LF and leadoff hitter on the All MLB team

SOXPHILE
05-20-2008, 12:22 PM
Great story, but you've been had:

http://archive.salon.com/people/bc/2001/10/09/henderson/print.html

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=105;t=000001;p=1

Rickey Henderson knows where Rickey Henderson played and who Rickey Henderson played with.


What about the story of the Oakland A's accounting department not being able to reconcile some finances. After some investigating, it was discovered that Ricky had never cashed a $1 million signing bonus check from them, but had instead, had it framed and hanging on a wall in his home ?


Who was the player who was going to give up a seat for him on the team bus to the airport, saying he had tenure, to which Ricky replied "Ten years ? Ricky got 16, 17 years !!"

Eddo144
05-20-2008, 12:38 PM
Absolutely. IMO he's the starting LF and leadoff hitter on the All MLB team
Ted Williams on line 2. :redneck

In all seriousness, though, I'd for sure take Rickey on said team. Probably as a reserve, but on the team nonetheless.

102605
05-20-2008, 12:47 PM
He can hit leadoff!

asindc
05-20-2008, 12:49 PM
He can hit leadoff!

So could Willie Mays.

fquaye149
05-20-2008, 01:05 PM
Ted Williams on line 2. :redneck

In all seriousness, though, I'd for sure take Rickey on said team. Probably as a reserve, but on the team nonetheless.


OF is very crowded

Hell, CF alone has three players who could be considered in the top 5 of all time (Mays, Mantle, Dimaggio)

areilly
05-20-2008, 01:11 PM
Who was the player who was going to give up a seat for him on the team bus to the airport, saying he had tenure, to which Ricky replied "Ten years ? Ricky got 16, 17 years !!"

Steve Finley, when they were teammates in San Diego. Apparently when Rickey Henderson wrote Rickey Henderson's Wikipedia page, Rickey Henderson took that whole section from the Salon profile about what makes Rickey Henderson the Rickey Henderson Rickey Henderson is.

voodoochile
05-20-2008, 02:33 PM
OF is very crowded

Hell, CF alone has three players who could be considered in the top 5 of all time (Mays, Mantle, Dimaggio)

And some guy named Ruth. First name escapes me, but for some reason the last name sticks with me...

Edit: You know I always thought of Ruth as a CF. I don't know why. Obviously he played the majority of his games in the corner slots. Learn something new everyday...

voodoochile
05-20-2008, 02:53 PM
Ted Williams on line 2. :redneck

In all seriousness, though, I'd for sure take Rickey on said team. Probably as a reserve, but on the team nonetheless.

Good point. What can I say, I had a brain cramp...

fquaye149
05-20-2008, 05:44 PM
Put Teddy Ballgame at DH.

Of course, then you probably would have a tough decision whether to go with Rickey, Musial, or Cobb.

voodoochile
05-20-2008, 05:57 PM
Put Teddy Ballgame at DH.

Of course, then you probably would have a tough decision whether to go with Rickey, Musial, or Cobb.

I think players should have had to play the position for them to be eligible, otherwise you've got problems in the OF and you are ripping off some of the greatest DH in history.

Daver
05-20-2008, 06:00 PM
And some guy named Ruth. First name escapes me, but for some reason the last name sticks with me...

Edit: You know I always thought of Ruth as a CF. I don't know why. Obviously he played the majority of his games in the corner slots. Learn something new everyday...

Ruth could also be on your pitching staff.

fquaye149
05-20-2008, 06:09 PM
I think players should have had to play the position for them to be eligible, otherwise you've got problems in the OF and you are ripping off some of the greatest DH in history.

Eh, but Williams pretty much just played the position of "hitter"

I'll play your game, rube

C: Bench (or Berra)
1B: Foxx (or Gehrig)
2B: Morgan (or Hornsby)
SS: Wagner (or A-Rob)
3B: Schmidt
LF: Williams (or Musial or Cobb)
CF: Mays (or Mantle or Dimaggio)
RF: Ruth (or Aaron...but probably just Ruth)

DH: Frank!

guillen4life13
05-20-2008, 06:21 PM
Eh, but Williams pretty much just played the position of "hitter"

I'll play your game, rube

C: Bench (or Berra)
1B: Foxx (or Gehrig)
2B: Morgan (or Hornsby)
SS: Wagner (or A-Rob)
3B: Schmidt
LF: Williams (or Musial or Cobb)
CF: Mays (or Mantle or Dimaggio)
RF: Ruth (or Aaron...but probably just Ruth)

DH: Frank!

TBQH, if not simply for how good the guy was in the clutch, I'd put Edgar Martinez in the same category as Frank. Roberto Alomar could mix it up with Morgan/Hornsby. A-Rod to me clearly wins out at SS. In a few years, barring any substantial evidence of PED use, A-Rod will be referred to as the best position player ever.