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View Full Version : AJ ruined the Giants?


HomeFish
05-17-2008, 07:35 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=ArVLQsk4WGLTICfQ_N9oDRERvLYF?gid=280516 126

In the middle of this article, there is a bizarre story about a comment a member of the Giants organization allegedly made to AJ on this roadtrip. I'm sure AJ got a huge kick out of it.

soxfanatlanta
05-17-2008, 07:44 AM
I love Ozzie's comment about the team booing AJ during batting practice. :smile:

Tragg
05-17-2008, 08:19 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=ArVLQsk4WGLTICfQ_N9oDRERvLYF?gid=280516 126

In the middle of this article, there is a bizarre story about a comment a member of the Giants organization allegedly made to AJ on this roadtrip. I'm sure AJ got a huge kick out of it. They boo AJ because they can't boo Sabean.
It would be like Swisher keeps hitting like he is hitting, we start losing, some players get miffed at him for trying to rile the team up to win, and then the Sox foolishly release him after the season. Also next year, DLS becomes an all star closer and Gio a viable starter. And in the meantime, the Sox go on to several straight seasons in which they can't get out of the 70s in win totals. In the meantime, Swisher signs on with some other team next year, and they win a WS, with Swish's savvy playing a large role in the run through the playoffs.
We'd be looking for someone to boo too.

roylestillman
05-17-2008, 08:55 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=ArVLQsk4WGLTICfQ_N9oDRERvLYF?gid=280516 126

In the middle of this article, there is a bizarre story about a comment a member of the Giants organization allegedly made to AJ on this roadtrip. I'm sure AJ got a huge kick out of it.

I wonder if this is the arguement AJ had with one of the Giants' staff members that's referenced in this morning's paper. Sounds like that organizaton was wrecked before he got there, and hasn't gotten any better. Magowan stepping down might be a clue here - I think the Zito signing may have been it for him.

Vernam
05-17-2008, 09:07 AM
Sure, the Giants gave up too much to get AJ, but maybe their current hangover has more to do with how they sold their souls to Barry Bonds?

Reading AJ's lips as he pulled into third base last night, I thought it looked like he was yelling to no fan in particular: "There's a ****in' triple. Go ahead and boo!" Ozzie may be right -- AJ plays better when he's getting heckled.

Vernam

SoxGirl4Life
05-17-2008, 09:35 AM
Sure, the Giants gave up too much to get AJ, but maybe their current hangover has more to do with how they sold their souls to Barry Bonds?

Reading AJ's lips as he pulled into third base last night, I thought it looked like he was yelling to no fan in particular: "There's a ****in' triple. Go ahead and boo!" Ozzie may be right -- AJ plays better when he's getting heckled.

Vernam


ding ding ding...you get the gold star!

But, its easier to blame a player that was there for one season, 4 years ago. Not like AJ had any control over who the Giants gave up to get him!

ondafarm
05-17-2008, 09:43 AM
It was a bad deal for the Giants but bad deals are a part of baseball. I agree that the Giants woes are more to do with Bonds than AJ, but in San Fran, you can't boo Bonds. Or at least when I resided in the Bay Area.

Corlose 15
05-17-2008, 10:24 AM
They boo AJ because they can't boo Sabean.
It would be like Swisher keeps hitting like he is hitting, we start losing, some players get miffed at him for trying to rile the team up to win, and then the Sox foolishly release him after the season. Also next year, DLS becomes an all star closer and Gio a viable starter. And in the meantime, the Sox go on to several straight seasons in which they can't get out of the 70s in win totals. In the meantime, Swisher signs on with some other team next year, and they win a WS, with Swish's savvy playing a large role in the run through the playoffs.
We'd be looking for someone to boo too.

The problem is AJ had a pretty good year in San Francisco. .272 11 HR 28 2B 77RBI. I'd take that from my catcher.

The fact that they can blame him for what's happening to the organization and boo him when he played there and support that POS Bonds for so many years proves what a joke the Giants and their fans are.:rolleyes:

the1tab
05-17-2008, 10:46 AM
The San Francisco Giants have become a cautionary tale to any GM that thinks you can exclusively play to win today at the complete expense of your farm system. All of the teams that have won in the past two decades have had a nice mix of veterans and young, home grown (or acquired minor league) talent. Sabean & MacGowan thought they could live on an all over 35 team and win because they would have a former All Star at every position (Moises Alou, Omar Vizquel, etc). They completely neglected their scouting dept. and lef their minor league system to dry up with the mediocre players nobody else would take in a trade. The once in a while they struck gold they traded it away, ex. the AJ Deal w/ Minnesota. I'm not saying AJ was washed up like Alou & Omar when he got to San Francisco at all... but they traded away younger talent for an established veteran and, in the minds of most Bay Area fans, overpaid for a guy they kept almost long enough to learn how to spell his last name.

On top of selling their souls for Bonds and allowing his circus to take over the team, they're the worst run organization in professional sports.

Footnote: I take great pride in saying the Giants are the worst run team in sports, because 9 months ago I would have said the Chicago Blackhawks. God bless Rocky Wirtz for what he's done to that team and this city... every franchise would be lucky to have someone that 'gets it' half as much as Rocky does. He's a Chicago Man's Man, truly a man of the people, and I respect that.

turners56
05-17-2008, 12:40 PM
Well, in a sense, A.J. did ruin the Giants, mostly because Brian Sabean was an idiot. So really, Brian Sabean ruined the Giants. Sabean wanted Pierzynski so much that he traded an incredible closer, an ace for a season, and a solid number 3 for a catcher they had for one season. I don't know about you guys, but soon, the same representative that talked to A.J. will say the same thing to Aaron Rowand when he's off the team, mostly because Brian Sabean gave Aaron too much money.

getonbckthr
05-17-2008, 12:52 PM
AJ didn't ruin the Giants nor did Barry Bonds. Sabean ruined management by what he sent to Minnesota, the contract he gave Zito, the contract he gave Rowand, retaining Ray Durham, signing Omar Vizquel, acquiring Alou. Anyone who blames Bonds or AJ is nuts.

turners56
05-17-2008, 12:54 PM
AJ didn't ruin the Giants nor did Barry Bonds. Sabean ruined management by what he sent to Minnesota, the contract he gave Zito, the contract he gave Rowand, retaining Ray Durham, signing Omar Vizquel, acquiring Alou. Anyone who blames Bonds or AJ is nuts.

The Giants are nuts, 'nuff said.

oeo
05-17-2008, 12:57 PM
It sounds like the Giants organization is just oozing professionalism.

JB98
05-17-2008, 01:40 PM
AJ didn't ruin the Giants nor did Barry Bonds. Sabean ruined management by what he sent to Minnesota, the contract he gave Zito, the contract he gave Rowand, retaining Ray Durham, signing Omar Vizquel, acquiring Alou. Anyone who blames Bonds or AJ is nuts.

That pretty much sums it up. The Giants have made a number of bad moves, and that's why they are what they are today.

voodoochile
05-17-2008, 01:58 PM
You know what's sad is the Giants used to year in and year out be one of the best run franchises in baseball.

From 1997-2004 they never won less than 86 games and made the playoffs 4 times.

Yeah, that's the heart of the Dusty Baker and BALCO era, but still, they were just one of those teams you expected to be in the thick of the playoff hunt, year in and year out.

gobears1987
05-17-2008, 02:06 PM
This couldn't happen to a finer franchise. When you lie in bed with the devil (Bonds), expect to get burned.

Of course Barry isn't at fault. As has been said earlier, Sabean is at fault, but the way they acted with Bonds just makes me so happy to see the Giants in shambles.

People can bitch and moan about Kenny not making certain signings, but the best signings are the ones you don't make. I can see many cases where people complained when Kenny got outbid only for the other team to be stuck with a lemon. Andruw Jones, Barry Zito, etc.

slowlearner
05-17-2008, 02:25 PM
They boo AJ because they can't boo Sabean.
It would be like Swisher keeps hitting like he is hitting, we start losing, some players get miffed at him for trying to rile the team up to win, and then the Sox foolishly release him after the season. Also next year, DLS becomes an all star closer and Gio a viable starter. And in the meantime, the Sox go on to several straight seasons in which they can't get out of the 70s in win totals. In the meantime, Swisher signs on with some other team next year, and they win a WS, with Swish's savvy playing a large role in the run through the playoffs.
We'd be looking for someone to boo too.

Good point. I honestly can't think of a worse way to properly handle a player personnel decision that how the Giants handled AJ. They pay through the nose for him, then let him walk after a solid year all because, if I remember correctly, a few journeymen pitchers (Brett Tomko?) didn't particularly like his attitude. Anytime I get a little down on Sox management, SF is one of those organizations that stands as a shining example of how bad it really could be.

The Immigrant
05-17-2008, 03:17 PM
Footnote: I take great pride in saying the Giants are the worst run team in sports...

The few remaining Pirates fans strongly disagree with you. At least the Giants have had a few winning seasons in the last 10 years.

spiffie
05-17-2008, 04:03 PM
AJ didn't ruin the Giants nor did Barry Bonds. Sabean ruined management by what he sent to Minnesota, the contract he gave Zito, the contract he gave Rowand, retaining Ray Durham, signing Omar Vizquel, acquiring Alou. Anyone who blames Bonds or AJ is nuts.
Can we at least wait until Rowand isn't the NL CF with the highest BA and OBP, and second highest SLG before we proclaim that a bad contract?

Frontman
05-17-2008, 04:21 PM
The San Francisco Giants have become a cautionary tale to any GM that thinks you can exclusively play to win today at the complete expense of your farm system.

When precisely did the Giants "play to win?" Are we talking about prior to AJ being there? It certainly hasn't been the past few seasons; as it was more of an amusement park for the Barry Bonds slug-fest than actual baseball being played there.

Frontman
05-17-2008, 04:21 PM
Can we at least wait until Rowand isn't the NL CF with the highest BA and OBP, and second highest SLG before we proclaim that a bad contract?

Agreed. As much I as I've enjoyed Swisher; I would trade him in a hearbeat to get Rowand and the numbers he's putting up right now.

TheVulture
05-17-2008, 05:33 PM
Sabean ruined management by... the contract he gave Rowand.

.328/.397/.530

Seems like he's earning his keep to me. I can think of a heck of a lot of guys producing less for 12 mil/year.

gamblinkenny
05-17-2008, 05:57 PM
I would be more inclined to assert barry bonds has done more damage to the franchise overall. it's funny how they call aj a clubhouse cancer, well, if aj was a cancer what was bonds?

that barry zito deal was special too.

DickAllen72
05-17-2008, 06:11 PM
.328/.397/.530

Seems like he's earning his keep to me. I can think of a heck of a lot of guys producing less for 12 mil/year.
JT?

chisoxfanatic
05-17-2008, 06:57 PM
Agreed. As much I as I've enjoyed Swisher; I would trade him in a hearbeat to get Rowand and the numbers he's putting up right now.

I really think Swisher's gonna break out of it soon.

cards press box
05-17-2008, 07:09 PM
.328/.397/.530

Seems like he's earning his keep to me. I can think of a heck of a lot of guys producing less for 12 mil/year.

Rowand has played great so far but isn't the real question about the length of the contract?

turners56
05-17-2008, 07:40 PM
Can we at least wait until Rowand isn't the NL CF with the highest BA and OBP, and second highest SLG before we proclaim that a bad contract?

Aaron's a great player, but he got over-paid for too many years. And let's face it, he's not going to hit .330 for the rest of the year.

getonbckthr
05-17-2008, 08:58 PM
.328/.397/.530

Seems like he's earning his keep to me. I can think of a heck of a lot of guys producing less for 12 mil/year.
Talk to me in 5 years about how he earned that contract.
I would be more inclined to assert barry bonds has done more damage to the franchise overall. it's funny how they call aj a clubhouse cancer, well, if aj was a cancer what was bonds?

that barry zito deal was special too.
Bonds is the reason the franchise is still in SF and not TB. He was the main draw and the reason that team made any money.

gamblinkenny
05-17-2008, 09:04 PM
if you equate making money with team success...ok, you are right.

bonds in the epitome of a clubhouse cancer. say what you want about team chemistry, but there could never be any with bonds on that squad.

getonbckthr
05-17-2008, 09:07 PM
if you equate making money with team success...ok, you are right.

bonds in the epitome of a clubhouse cancer. say what you want about team chemistry, but there could never be any with bonds on that squad.
Thats funny cause the only guy to have a problem with Bonds, documented, was Jeff Kent. Everyone else says Bonds wasn't a bad clubhouse guy because he kept to himself and minded his own business.

getonbckthr
05-17-2008, 09:10 PM
You wanna bash Bonds for his steroid use, fine. You wanna bash him for how he handles the media, fine. However to say he didn't produce to benefit the team is crazy. To say he was a bad clubhouse guy when everyone else but 1 guy says different is irresponsible. To blame Bonds for the fact that Giant upper management made absolutely brutal decisions is moronic.

Jjav829
05-17-2008, 10:03 PM
Thats funny cause the only guy to have a problem with Bonds, documented, was Jeff Kent. Everyone else says Bonds wasn't a bad clubhouse guy because he kept to himself and minded his own business.

You've never read Love Me, Hate Me by Jeff Pearlman, have you?

Hitmenof77
05-17-2008, 11:13 PM
You've never read Love Me, Hate Me by Jeff Pearlman, have you?


Do you believe everything you read by a pissed off writer?

BTW when Bonds and Kent got into that fight in the SD dugout, it was because Bonds was taking up for David Bell, who Kent was chewing out.
I guess the press didn't bother to tell you that or you choosed not to listen.

oeo
05-17-2008, 11:16 PM
Can we at least wait until Rowand isn't the NL CF with the highest BA and OBP, and second highest SLG before we proclaim that a bad contract?

Because Rowand sucks...he's just a grinder.

Rockin Robin
05-18-2008, 12:18 AM
Do you believe everything you read by a pissed off writer?

BTW when Bonds and Kent got into that fight in the SD dugout, it was because Bonds was taking up for David Bell, who Kent was chewing out.
I guess the press didn't bother to tell you that or you choosed not to listen.

So how long were you a teammate of Barry's?

Mohoney
05-18-2008, 01:08 AM
The Giants sold their souls to the almighty dollar and rode the Bonds fraud as long as they could. IMO, they deserve what they get.

I hope they make 50 more bumbleheaded trades and NEVER win a World Series in my lifetime.

fquaye149
05-18-2008, 01:19 AM
You've never read Love Me, Hate Me by Jeff Pearlman, have you?

Jeff Pearlman's a frequent commenter on my blog. He's kind of a pooder.

That proves it!

fquaye149
05-18-2008, 01:20 AM
So how long were you a teammate of Barry's?

But wait! Don't all Barry's teammates hate him!? So why would a teammate defend him? I think you meant "so what's it like being the mother of Barry Bonds, BARRY'S MOTHER?!?!?!?"

fquaye149
05-18-2008, 01:22 AM
if you equate making money with team success...ok, you are right.

bonds in the epitome of a clubhouse cancer. say what you want about team chemistry, but there could never be any with bonds on that squad.

No, that would be Sammy Sosa, who played obnoxious music in the clubhouse and played by his own rules.

Bonds merely didn't LIKE many players on his team and didn't fool around with them or the press. By that defintion, Roger Maris and Frank Thomas would be clubhouse cancers

fquaye149
05-18-2008, 01:24 AM
Rowand has played great so far but isn't the real question about the length of the contract?

It is. And about Rowand's injury problems. But don't let that get in the way of people who still want Rowand back yakking about how a 5 year deal was worth it for an oft-injured, aging, inconsistent player

Mr. White Sox
05-18-2008, 01:51 AM
The few remaining Pirates fans strongly disagree with you. At least the Giants have had a few winning seasons in the last 10 years.

At least the Pirates have some young talent coming up in their system (McCutcheon in particular). The Giants? Ehhh... they're going to be really, really bad for a really, really long time, thanks to the Zito contract.

gamblinkenny
05-18-2008, 10:22 AM
hahaha...just jeff kent? hahahaha.

gamblinkenny
05-18-2008, 10:28 AM
No, that would be Sammy Sosa, who played obnoxious music in the clubhouse and played by his own rules.

Bonds merely didn't LIKE many players on his team and didn't fool around with them or the press. By that defintion, Roger Maris and Frank Thomas would be clubhouse cancers


are you serious? he didn't like the other players? wow. if you dont think bonds played by his own rules, you have problems. he put himself and his concerns above those of the teams.

Jjav829
05-18-2008, 10:33 AM
Do you believe everything you read by a pissed off writer?

BTW when Bonds and Kent got into that fight in the SD dugout, it was because Bonds was taking up for David Bell, who Kent was chewing out.
I guess the press didn't bother to tell you that or you choosed not to listen.

I have no idea what this means. So you agree that no teammate, other than Jeff Kent, has ever had a problem with Bonds? Do you believe that Pearlman made up everything in that book? :?:

gamblinkenny
05-18-2008, 11:32 AM
im shocked by the presence of bonds apologists. in my opinion in says a lot when neither farmio nor DJ will mention him by name.

fquaye149
05-18-2008, 12:25 PM
im shocked by the presence of bonds apologists. in my opinion in says a lot when neither farmio nor DJ will mention him by name.

Yep. That says it all.

Drillrod Indiana
05-18-2008, 08:32 PM
Our bats couldn't come alive at a better time. This next series is huge! The lineup changes have sparked the team. Is Uribe hurt? Keep the hot bats warm, and the cubs suck.

doublem23
05-18-2008, 08:42 PM
im shocked by the presence of bonds apologists. in my opinion in says a lot when neither farmio nor DJ will mention him by name.

Farmio and DJ are the epitome of baseball genius.

Jjav829
05-18-2008, 09:49 PM
Our bats couldn't come alive at a better time. This next series is huge! The lineup changes have sparked the team. Is Uribe hurt? Keep the hot bats warm, and the cubs suck.

:roflmao: Epic first(?) post.

fquaye149
05-18-2008, 09:49 PM
oh my!