PDA

View Full Version : When will it be time to scrap it?


FGarcia34
05-14-2008, 03:13 PM
Luckily thus far, Cleveland and Detroit have not met expectations. Because of that we have remained a float in this very mediocre AL Central. Our pitching has performed very well and our youngsters have been a bright surprise so far. Players like Thome, Konerko, and Cabrera have clearly hit some sort of wall. They arent and won't return to the type of players they used to be. Look at the way Minnesota and Kansas City have done things. Their young talent is coming through for them. It might not be time yet, but it's coming very soon to unload some of these underachieving veterans in some sort of fashion to make room for players like Chris Getz, Josh Fields, Jerry Owens, Lance Broadway, and even the overmatched Alexei Ramirez. Even if this offense somehow turns this atrocious slump around, they just aren't good enough to compete in the American League. I'm not saying that we should just go out and propose ridiculous trades and release our vets, I'm just clearly stating the obvious...We have young players in our farm system that we need to see what exactly we have with them. In our market and in baseball it is completely possible to have a 180 turn at any point and even next season. I am really anxious to see what we have with our young talent and am getting very impatient with some of these guys who have been "doing it for years." What do you guys think?

jenn2080
05-14-2008, 03:17 PM
I would not say they are not good enough, but I would say that something needs to be done. I cannot handle watching Paulie and Thome anymore. I am all about bringing Fields and Owens up.

voodoochile
05-14-2008, 03:23 PM
I disagree to some extent. Just because a player is showing signs of life in the minors doesn't mean they should be automatically given a chance to sink or swim in the majors immediately.

Players used to spend a lot longer in the minors and there is nothing wrong with letting some of these prospects hang on for a year or more until they show consistency and the ability to be well rounded players.

I realize it's popular for Sox fans to see the green grass growing at the AAA level and desire to see that grass grow on the south side of Chicago, but it's just not that simple.

It's not so much worrying about aging vets (especially for me (ask anyone)) but you don't want to damage the kids either.

They can get some PT in September if nothing else or if the Sox fall out of it, look for Crede, Uribe and possibly Cabrera to all get traded opening up lots of slots for some of these youngsters to get regular PT before then. End of July is as early as anything should be done unless the Sox seriously tank it in the next 30 days.

PorkChopExpress
05-14-2008, 03:28 PM
Luckily thus far, Cleveland and Detroit have not met expectations. Because of that we have remained a float in this very mediocre AL Central.

I know something else that floats.

Seriously, though. We went through this last year, and waited for some of these guys to come around for far too long. I give them the rest of this month. If nothing has changed by early June, it's time to make bigger changes than the batting order.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-14-2008, 03:29 PM
I still think it's too early to consider trading everyone, but something has to be done with Thome. I can't stand watching him strike out or walk every at bat.

peeonwrigley
05-14-2008, 03:30 PM
I know something else that floats.



:D:

doublem23
05-14-2008, 03:39 PM
The pitching has been too good so far (and the division has been too weak) to just give up. Plus, it's not like many of these guys have any trade value right now anyways. I would make some changes (like fire Greg Walker), but overall I would just see how I can ride this season out and then probably blow up the offense in the off-season and try to plug in players in holes.

Law11
05-14-2008, 03:42 PM
I'm all for energizing this team with some new blood. Somehow, someway..

Thome:
His bat is too slow and for a #3 hitter to be up there whiffing through pitch after pitch or grounding out to RF has got to be looked at by KW because something is not right.

Paulie:
will get his 30hrs 100 rbi's but we've always lived with his K's and DP balls. But to have back to back guys in the lineup doing that is just too much to watch.

I dont pretend to know about every guy in our system and the logistics in moving guys but thats what KW is paid to do and he needs to look at this club after May and if its fixed.. Great if not, time to shake some things up because this team is getting old fast. If we are going to win this division this year we need a spark. Where it comes from who knows..

BA, Jerry Owens, an unknown guy out there in a trade...
This team is 0-10 when we dont hit a HR.

So much for the getting back to the basics..

Chicken Dinner
05-14-2008, 03:44 PM
It's May 14th and we're only 2 games out. :scratch:

soxpride724
05-14-2008, 03:51 PM
While I'm all for bringing up some youth to see what it can do, this team needs more time before we go that route. I would say that if the Sox vetern bats are still in this slump after the all star break, that we should then revamp the lineup with youth.

LoveYourSuit
05-14-2008, 03:53 PM
It's May 14th and we're only 2 games out. :scratch:


And we are bad.

Chicken Dinner
05-14-2008, 03:58 PM
And we are bad.

Underachieving.

AnkleSox
05-14-2008, 04:01 PM
Underachieving.

Like last year?

Law11
05-14-2008, 04:02 PM
It's May 14th and we're only 2 games out. :scratch:

And thats awesome considering how bad the offense has been.
In June we'll be saying what we did last year. They'll come around..

Maybe they will but Id rather not sit around waiting for what might happen.
If we win this division this year it'll come down to the last week because we arent pulling away with the horses we have..

All the more reason to get the ship above 500 now and not wait until we are 6-7 under heading into the break and about 8-9 back..

We can win this thing! We have the pitching. If we get some breaks in the field
and the offensive collectively wakes up we can do this... But we cant go through May and interleague like we did last year or we're toast.

RockJock07
05-14-2008, 04:08 PM
I'm all for energizing this team with some new blood. Somehow, someway..

Thome:
His bat is too slow and for a #3 hitter to be up there whiffing through pitch after pitch or grounding out to RF has got to be looked at by KW because something is not right.

Paulie:
will get his 30hrs 100 rbi's but we've always lived with his K's and DP balls. But to have back to back guys in the lineup doing that is just too much to watch.

I dont pretend to know about every guy in our system and the logistics in moving guys but thats what KW is paid to do and he needs to look at this club after May and if its fixed.. Great if not, time to shake some things up because this team is getting old fast. If we are going to win this division this year we need a spark. Where it comes from who knows..

BA, Jerry Owens, an unknown guy out there in a trade...
This team is 0-10 when we dont hit a HR.

So much for the getting back to the basics..

Not sure about that. I would say that Thome is just a lost cause, he may still get his 25 HR but couple that with all the K's and GIDP's, his HR's won't mean as much. Same goes for Paulie.

I'm just sick and tired of watching this team piss away pitching performances like this. I know Konerko and Thome are fan favs, but they need to go, they aren't performing and they haven't played well for awhile now.

KW is gonna have to eat salary on Paulie but someone will take him, it just feels like he needs a new start. Swis at first and let BA or JO handle CF the rest of the season.

voodoochile
05-14-2008, 04:13 PM
Like last year?

Man, this is one tired refrain...

Please list the players from this year's squad who like last year are severely underachieving.

There are like 5 new starters this year from the team that played most of last season and while Dye, THome and Konerko all had below average seasons last year, neither PK nor Thome were this shade of bad.

The comparisons to last years team are as silly as the ones to the 2005 team...

jabrch
05-14-2008, 04:14 PM
I realize it's popular for Sox fans to see the green grass growing at the AAA level and desire to see that grass grow on the south side of Chicago, but it's just not that simple.


Wasserman?

PorkChopExpress
05-14-2008, 04:18 PM
Man, this is one tired refrain...

Please list the players from this year's squad who like last year are severely underachieving.

There are like 5 new starters this year from the team that played most of last season and while Dye, THome and Konerko all had below average seasons last year, neither PK nor Thome were this shade of bad.

The comparisons to last years team are as silly as the ones to the 2005 team...

I don't know that the comparison is properly between the players from this year and last as it is between the decision to ride it out this year like we did last year. Last year we waited too long for players to get hot that we assumed would get hot. It doesn't matter who those players were. This year, I would rather not wait for players to get hot that we assume will get hot and wind up missing out on an opportunity to take the lead in what is turning out to be a weak division. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, or whatever.

I_Liked_Manuel
05-14-2008, 04:24 PM
Players like Thome, Konerko, and Cabrera have clearly hit some sort of wall. They arent and won't return to the type of players they used to be.

what? it's the middle of May right now. if you're going throw out something like that - back it up.

we have to at least give it until mid june until we start thinking about dumping guys

voodoochile
05-14-2008, 04:24 PM
I don't know that the comparison is properly between the players from this year and last as it is between the decision to ride it out this year like we did last year. Last year we waited too long for players to get hot that we assumed would get hot. It doesn't matter who those players were. This year, I would rather not wait for players to get hot that we assume will get hot and wind up missing out on an opportunity to take the lead in what is turning out to be a weak division. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, or whatever.

But that's the whole point. Last year's team has been turned over and the division is far more up for grabs at present than it was last year too boot.

It's different players - and this time it's players most of us expect to perform on some level. I mean show me the people who expected Thome to falter this badly. Konerko? Cabrera? Swisher? This isn't Cintron, Terrero, Erstadt and Mackowiak. These are players who until this season have performed at an All-Star level for at least some portion of their previous MLB career. Some of them have done nothing but perform at AS levels.

You have to evaluate the individual circumstances not rely on "well it didn't work last year, so we should use that to make our decision."

It's not remotely close to being that simple...

RockJock07
05-14-2008, 04:27 PM
I don't know that the comparison is properly between the players from this year and last as it is between the decision to ride it out this year like we did last year. Last year we waited too long for players to get hot that we assumed would get hot. It doesn't matter who those players were. This year, I would rather not wait for players to get hot that we assume will get hot and wind up missing out on an opportunity to take the lead in what is turning out to be a weak division. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, or whatever.

I agree, I would rather not wait for Thome, Konerko, and Uribe to figure it out because by then we could be out of it. 2 games is doable, but 7-8 which could happen in the span of 10 days is gonna kill this team. Because if they are 7 games out, they are gonna press and they will continue to struggle.

I would love for this pitching to continue but I'm just not sure it will and Ozzie and KW need to do everything they can to put us in 1st and create some ground. We have the pitching to do so let's not wait on fan favs to turn it around because they might not do it.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 04:28 PM
You have to evaluate the individual circumstances not rely on "well it didn't work last year, so we should use that to make our decision."

EXACTLY!

"It didn't work last year" doesn't mean crap to me.

Is it good logic this year - that's what is important.

LITTLE NELL
05-14-2008, 04:31 PM
Its time to get rid of some of these slow home run or nothing guys. This has been going on since the 06 All Star break. Something needs to be done otherwise its another 72-90 season.

whitesox901
05-14-2008, 04:32 PM
First off, Its great to be back! :D:

I wouldnt scrap the Sox just yet, lets still wait it out some more. I think when the time is right, we'll know.

spiffie
05-14-2008, 04:32 PM
Man, this is one tired refrain...

Please list the players from this year's squad who like last year are severely underachieving.

There are like 5 new starters this year from the team that played most of last season and while Dye, THome and Konerko all had below average seasons last year, neither PK nor Thome were this shade of bad.

The comparisons to last years team are as silly as the ones to the 2005 team...
Konerko is pretty much right where he was last year at this point in time. After the game of 5/13/07 he had a line of 194/284/333. This year he has 213/338/378. On the same date Dye was at 203/277/382. This year he has 288/341/512 so he's actually doing better. Pierzynski and Crede are also outperforming where they were last year (Crede was still in the lineup every day at this point). Uribe is doing significantly worse than last season (amazing he could find a way to go down) as he went from 255/321/447 on 5/13/07 to being at 202/269/339. Thome is also significantly down from last year.

Surprisingly, there are only 3 new people in the normal every day lineup this year from the every day lineup starting last year at this point. Swisher, Cabrera and Quentin. Konerko, Uribe, Crede, Dye, Thome, Pierzynski are still holdovers.

Also, last year Thome had about as good a year as you are going to get from a guy his age without the benefit of BALCO technology. He exceeded his career averages in BA, OBP, and SLG. He was fifth in the AL in OPS. Jim Thome had a damn good year last year.

Law11
05-14-2008, 04:32 PM
The comparisons to last years team are as silly as the ones to the 2005 team...


I dont think its so much comparing teams as comparing the mindset of they'll come out of it. It's deja vu all over again. and again..

To have one of the worst hitting teams in the AL two years running is just not acceptable.

JB98
05-14-2008, 04:34 PM
I would not say they are not good enough, but I would say that something needs to be done. I cannot handle watching Paulie and Thome anymore. I am all about bringing Fields and Owens up.

You might be all about that, but you shouldn't be. Fields is on the DL. He was hitting .240 with an asinine amount of strikeouts before he got hurt. Owens has seen his batting average dip into the .220s.

The calvary isn't coming from Charlotte.

voodoochile
05-14-2008, 04:39 PM
I dont think its so much comparing teams as comparing the mindset of they'll come out of it. It's deja vu all over again. and again..

To have one of the worst hitting teams in the AL two years running is just not acceptable.

But that's the point, it's not the same team. It's not the same players. Thus, it's not the same decision.

It feels the same, sure, but that's why emotions can mislead you. Making an emotionally based decision in mid-May to dismantle the team is a bad way to run a sports franchise, period.

We're fans, of course every loss is magnified every DP grounder with the bases loaded losing by a run tears into us. In the end you either believe this team will start to hit like it has historically (or at least better than it currently is) or you don't, but last year's team has been rebuilt into this team with new players and new expectations. You have to give THIS year's team a chance to climb out of this horrible slump. Any talk of dismantling before the end of June is simply silly.

Daver
05-14-2008, 04:41 PM
Tuesday.

October26
05-14-2008, 04:41 PM
You might be all about that, but you shouldn't be. Fields is on the DL. He was hitting .240 with an asinine amount of strikeouts before he got hurt. Owens has seen his batting average dip into the .220s.

The calvary isn't coming from Charlotte.

Oh boy! Reading this has really put things into perspective for me. Your facts (Fields on DL and Owens .220) suggest that we don't have anything in the minor leagues to bring up so even if Kenny wanted to, he has nothing to "scrap it" and start over with ?!? Yikes!

areilly
05-14-2008, 04:48 PM
It's May 14th and we're only 2 games out. :scratch:

And we are bad.

Underachieving.

Given this team's mediocrity in so many areas, I'd actually call two games out overachieving.

PorkChopExpress
05-14-2008, 04:52 PM
But that's the whole point. Last year's team has been turned over and the division is far more up for grabs at present than it was last year too boot.

It's different players - and this time it's players most of us expect to perform on some level. I mean show me the people who expected Thome to falter this badly. Konerko? Cabrera? Swisher? This isn't Cintron, Terrero, Erstadt and Mackowiak. These are players who until this season have performed at an All-Star level for at least some portion of their previous MLB career. Some of them have done nothing but perform at AS levels.

You have to evaluate the individual circumstances not rely on "well it didn't work last year, so we should use that to make our decision."

It's not remotely close to being that simple...

I don't think the team is that "turned over." We weren't, or at least I wasn't expecting Cintron, Terrero, Erstad or Mackowiak to break out last year. Well, maybe Erstad, a little. It was PK, Thome, Dye, Crede, and Pierzynski last year that we/I waited too long for, and things got away from us.

But again, I don't think it is important who sucked last year. There were at least five players on the team unerachieving for whom we waited too long to play to their expected level. This year - PK, Thome, Crede, Swisher, OC - that's five players underacheiving for whom we should not wait too much longer to play up to their expected levels. And because the division is up for grabs is why we should not wait. While everyone else in our division is struggling we should be taking the lead and running with it with the pitching we have had this year. So far, though, we have squandered a golden opportunity.

spiffie
05-14-2008, 04:53 PM
Given this team's mediocrity in so many areas, I'd actually call two games out overachieving.
I would say how many games out we are has little or nothing to do with us. The fact that other teams are also playing mediocre baseball simply means that we still have a chance to turn things around. But this team is about where it should be given the way they've played, and that's a couple games below .500.

JB98
05-14-2008, 04:56 PM
Oh boy! Reading this has really put things into perspective for me. Your facts (Fields on DL and Owens .220) suggest that we don't have anything in the minor leagues to bring up so even if Kenny wanted to, he has nothing to "scrap it" and start over with ?!? Yikes!

I understand the frustration that people have. My emotional side wants to see the Sox do something to shake it up too. Shake the lineup, shake the roster, shake the coaching staff, whatever.

But I also have a rational side, and I realize the Sox need to make a move only if it is prudent. You don't want to harm 2009 and 2010 by desperately trying to save 2008. Even though we are just two games out of first, we cannot expect to win our division playing this type of baseball.

They can't continue on this path, but what way do they turn? Fields is the only potential impact guy in Charlotte, and he's hurt. We don't have a particularly strong bench at the big-league level. Can we really afford to sit any of our regulars? Should we scapegoat the hitting coach?

I don't know. I don't have a good answer. It's KW and Ozzie's problem. I'm glad it's not mine.

Cuck the Fubs
05-14-2008, 05:00 PM
I would not say they are not good enough, but I would say that something needs to be done. I cannot handle watching Paulie and Thome anymore. I am all about bringing Fields and Owens up.

You don't want to swap Paulie & Thome for Owens & Fields........you have to be kidding right?:?:

areilly
05-14-2008, 05:04 PM
I would say how many games out we are has little or nothing to do with us. The fact that other teams are also playing mediocre baseball simply means that we still have a chance to turn things around. But this team is about where it should be given the way they've played, and that's a couple games below .500.

I was thinking only in terms of "the Sox being only slightly less bad than the team in first" as opposed to "wow, the Sox are really still in it?" as overachieving, but I agree - the way some of these teams are going, the Sox would hopefully capitalizing on that rather than joining them in it.

doublem23
05-14-2008, 05:14 PM
I would not say they are not good enough, but I would say that something needs to be done. I cannot handle watching Paulie and Thome anymore. I am all about bringing Fields and Owens up.

Fields is on the DL and was raking a .240 BA before he got hurt.

oeo
05-14-2008, 05:19 PM
I would not say they are not good enough, but I would say that something needs to be done. I cannot handle watching Paulie and Thome anymore. I am all about bringing Fields and Owens up.

The same Owens that is batting .228 in Charlotte? Pass.

spiffie
05-14-2008, 05:31 PM
Honestly, rather than scrapping it the way the pitching has been so far makes me inclined to trade anything we have left in the system to try and find a bat to jump start the offense. Is it time to start the yearly Carl Crawford rumors yet?

TDog
05-14-2008, 05:32 PM
I disagree to some extent. Just because a player is showing signs of life in the minors doesn't mean they should be automatically given a chance to sink or swim in the majors immediately.

Players used to spend a lot longer in the minors and there is nothing wrong with letting some of these prospects hang on for a year or more until they show consistency and the ability to be well rounded players.

I realize it's popular for Sox fans to see the green grass growing at the AAA level and desire to see that grass grow on the south side of Chicago, but it's just not that simple.

It's not so much worrying about aging vets (especially for me (ask anyone)) but you don't want to damage the kids either.

They can get some PT in September if nothing else or if the Sox fall out of it, look for Crede, Uribe and possibly Cabrera to all get traded opening up lots of slots for some of these youngsters to get regular PT before then. End of July is as early as anything should be done unless the Sox seriously tank it in the next 30 days.

I agree for the most part. I can recall sitting above the bullpen in 2002 people (usually intoxicated and angry with me for some reason when I told them I drove down from Wisconsin) talking about shifting this or that outfielder away and bringing in Joe Borchard. And more recently there was a large group that wanted to trade Aaron Rowand so that Brian Anderson could shine as a star.

I do think it's possible the Sox will deal before the end of July -- not to tear the team apart, but to strengthen it. What I would like to see is a package involving Nick Swisher for major-league talent, but I don't believe that is going to happen. I have never believed Swisher was a good fit for the White Sox.

People still complain about the "White Flag Trade," and that White Sox team really wasn't any better than this on. The national marketing nightmare it created by reaction to the trade I think will make it harder to make similar
trades in the future, which is just as well.

The AL Central isn't a strong division. I don't know if anyone is going to get hot. If so, I hope it's the White Sox. Suddenly, the Indians seem to be playing the best baseball. Cleveland's pitching has been coming around. But they haven't been hitting much at all.

JB98
05-14-2008, 05:33 PM
Honestly, rather than scrapping it the way the pitching has been so far makes me inclined to trade anything we have left in the system to try and find a bat to jump start the offense. Is it time to start the yearly Carl Crawford rumors yet?

Tampa Bay is in first place. I don't think they're sellers.

Lip Man 1
05-14-2008, 05:38 PM
Voodoo brings up an excellent point about rushing kids to the majors and ruining them. The Sox have had their share as does all of the rest of MLB.

It's called trying to get an immediate return on your investment and that short term outlook often causes long term disaster.

You need to be smart about it and it not just the physical end of the game but the mental one as well. It takes a special type of person to play MLB because of both of those areas.

In the past when guys like Gary Peters and Joe Horlen would spend five years in the minor leagues before getting a decent shot, they'd be able to hone their craft, learn what they were doing, how to pitch...that's not the case in MLB anymore and in many ways it's a damn shame.

Lip

TDog
05-14-2008, 05:57 PM
Fields is on the DL and was raking a .240 BA before he got hurt.

Before going on the DL, Fields was striking out in 31 percent of his plate appearances against AAA pitching. Thome was striking out in 27 percent of his plate appearances against major league pitching. Fields has homered in 3.6 percent of his plate appearances, and Thome has homered in 4.5 percent of his plate appearances.

People seem to think on-base percentage is important, but Fields' is only .309. Thome's is .350. That doesn't mean Thome wouldn't be doing better if he were in the majors. Sometimes players perform better in the majors because the lighting is better, travel isn't as difficult and they eat better. It's also possible his injury has affected his performance this season and that he wouldn't be injured had he been playing in Chicago. I don't know the nature of his injury. I'm not really all about stats anyway.

But my guess is that if Fields had started the season as the White Sox designated hitter, people would start threads about how they are sick of seeing Fields strike out. Even last year I didn't think much of him as a hitter.

It's Time
05-14-2008, 06:44 PM
Where this team sits at the break will answer the question of this thread. KW will bust it open if the White Sox are sitting out of contention. He'll have no choice.

It's a very unbalanced team and it's showing.

areilly
05-14-2008, 06:47 PM
Where this team sits at the break will answer the question of this thread. KW will bust it open if the White Sox are sitting out of contention. He'll have no choice.

It's a very unbalanaced team and it's showing.

Reminds me of what everyone thought a certain executive would sensibly do for a certain team during a certain baseball season that happened last year.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the speeches in June and July about "this team is built to win" and "there is no doubt in my mind that this White Sox team will be in it all the way," regardless of how true those statements actually are.

It's Time
05-14-2008, 06:56 PM
Reminds me of what everyone thought a certain executive would sensibly do for a certain team during a certain baseball season that happened last year.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the speeches in June and July about "this team is built to win" and "there is no doubt in my mind that this White Sox team will be in it all the way," regardless of how true those statements actually are.

And again, where they sit in the standings at the break will determine what they say and do.

Law11
05-14-2008, 06:59 PM
But that's the point, it's not the same team. It's not the same players. Thus, it's not the same decision.

It feels the same, sure, but that's why emotions can mislead you. Making an emotionally based decision in mid-May to dismantle the team is a bad way to run a sports franchise, period.

We're fans, of course every loss is magnified every DP grounder with the bases loaded losing by a run tears into us. In the end you either believe this team will start to hit like it has historically (or at least better than it currently is) or you don't, but last year's team has been rebuilt into this team with new players and new expectations. You have to give THIS year's team a chance to climb out of this horrible slump. Any talk of dismantling before the end of June is simply silly.

I do see your point.. Im looking at it like you said from an emotional standpoint more than the actual players on the team.

its easy for us me included to say 2 years of this because in my mind its the same ol same ol when in fact there are different players to evaluate.

its just tiring to see from a casual fan point a view the offense struggling
again this year. You would hope with the new blood added that it just clicks
before too much longer.

But your point is dead on.

Tragg
05-14-2008, 07:36 PM
This year, I would rather not wait for players to get hot that we assume will get hot and wind up missing out on an opportunity to take the lead in what is turning out to be a weak division. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, or whatever.
I don't know what can be done about it - dealing what few prospects we have for more veteran talent isn't a plan.

I do see similarities in last year - the team is structured similarly, with a bench that lacks a big bat but has plenty of utility level talent. A lineup with Uribe at 2nd was begging for trouble - dealing oneself 1/2 a hand. In addition, when the struggles began, Ozzie, just as he did last year, turns to his comfort zone - players who swing at everything. Erstad should have been on the bench in 07, but he was Ozzie's main man; this year, Cabrera is absolutely horrible, but Ozzie actually promotes him - he swats, lunges and slaps at it. Cabrera also doesn't get days off. RAmirez was deemed "fearless" and, incredibly, a better hitter than Carlos Quentin.
Anderson who plays the best D on this team and has some upside, isn't good enough, but a grizzled veteran like Uribe is called "a kid", his D is lauded and he is otherwise coddled to excuse his .200 batting average (my favorite were that Uribe's spring stats were deemed relevant). Guillen's boss has to cut Uribe to get him out of the lineup. We've seen this story before - it's been going on since 2006.

I see many similarities with last year's team.

Frontman
05-14-2008, 07:57 PM
I know something else that floats.

Seriously, though. We went through this last year, and waited for some of these guys to come around for far too long. I give them the rest of this month. If nothing has changed by early June, it's time to make bigger changes than the batting order.

Depending on your bran intake, that is.

I'm all for Ozzie to continue to tweak the lineup as we move forward; as the Sox really need something to change. I just don't see a AAA guy in the Sox system and go "Yeah, he's what they need."

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2008, 08:13 PM
It's not time to scrap it. It's way too early.

But I'm not opposed to making a trade to change the dynamics of this lineup with the hopes of making it more productive.

areilly
05-14-2008, 08:17 PM
And again, where they sit in the standings at the break will determine what they say and do.

I don't know if recent history agrees with that. In 2005, while in first place, they acquired yet another utility player who provided an awesome moment but really didn't win Game 3. In 2006, the Sox were either a bat or an arm away from the playoffs but wouldn't give up Brandon McCarthy to get Alfonso Soriano. In 2007, the Sox were out of it but held on to their two biggest trading chips.

Yes, I was happy for the mid-2003 and mid-2004 acquisitions, but my gut tells me nothing happens either way, but I've also come to the conclusion that my guts have **** for brains sometimes.

Noneck
05-14-2008, 08:20 PM
In 2007, the Sox were out of it but held on to their two biggest trading chips.



Who? Jenks and Fields.

areilly
05-14-2008, 08:59 PM
Who? Jenks and Fields.

MB and JD.

Noneck
05-14-2008, 09:04 PM
MB and JD.


Players in last year of contract and going into FA are never worth much in the trade market.

It's Dankerific
05-14-2008, 09:06 PM
Players in last year of contract and going into FA are never worth much in the trade market.

Except if its a player we want to acquire...

Noneck
05-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Except if its a player we want to acquire...
My comment was in reference to trading chips.

Daver
05-14-2008, 09:21 PM
Maybe Wednesday.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 04:59 PM
Maybe Wednesday.Let' see, the Sox just won a series in Seattle something they do about once a century and are getting ready to split on the road with the Angels, one of the best teams in the league...
I don't think we should scrap anything just yet.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2008, 08:27 PM
Nada:

Let's hope they get a split.

Lip

btrain929
05-15-2008, 08:38 PM
Players in last year of contract and going into FA are never worth much in the trade market.

The Padres got a nice haul for Linebrink.

delben91
05-15-2008, 08:44 PM
Maybe Wednesday.

I want to make sure...do you mean this Wednesday just past, or next Wednesday...

I want "June 3rd" in the "When will it be time to scrap it?" pool.

Thanks.

Daver
05-15-2008, 09:24 PM
I want to make sure...do you mean this Wednesday just past, or next Wednesday...

I want "June 3rd" in the "When will it be time to scrap it?" pool.

Thanks.


Prolly the Wednesday after that.