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kittle42
05-13-2008, 11:47 PM
Screw you, Hawk. Screw you, Walker. Screw you, 1-9 hitters.

Can we trade our lineup for Pittsburgh's and keep our pitchers? That would be a great team.

Two winnable games. 0-2.

itsnotrequired
05-13-2008, 11:48 PM
I ****ing hate this offense right now. What a bunch of chodes.

Sockinchisox
05-13-2008, 11:48 PM
At least the postgame show will be entertaining.

Parrothead
05-13-2008, 11:49 PM
I did not see the game tonight, did the Sox not use thier bats again? OH MY THE HITTING BLOWS. This is no slump, it is a trend. Time to launch people, it don't matter who.

doublem23
05-13-2008, 11:49 PM
http://www.carolinamidlands.com/photogallery/Gamecocks/WeSuckAss-vi.jpg

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry:

ChicagoHoosier
05-13-2008, 11:49 PM
Does WCIU have a post-game show?

Scottiehaswheels
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
We should have someone with a radar gun and another person with a Taser behind home plate. Weak pop up with a runner in scoring position, your ass is tasered.

sox1970
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
Jim Thome Against Relief Pitching Update:

4-41 (.098), with 20 K's

JUribe1989
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
Wonderful Swisher acquisition!

How long are we going to carry on this 3-4-5 of slow station-to-station ridiculous baseball. NO OTHER TEAM PLAYS WITH AS LITTLE SPEED AS WE HAVE!

kittle42
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
This is no slump, it is a trend. Time to launch people, it don't matter who.

Even The Moron realizes this is true - how can't the Sox?

soltrain21
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
...And we haven't even hit our stride yet.

Trav
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
The defense in the 8th lost this game. Can Swisher hit the cutoff man instead of airmailing it halfway up the first base line trying to throw out a runner tagging from third? Letting those runners move up killed us.

whitesoxfan
05-13-2008, 11:51 PM
This is really starting to look like 2007 all over again. Then once the hitting will get it going, the pitching will be giving up 8-9 runs a game.

regionsox73
05-13-2008, 11:51 PM
Ranger's Rubes will be excellent calls... midnight so you will get truckers, graveyard shifters, and the unemployed who don't have to be up in 5 hours. I am staying up to hear him defend people.

itsnotrequired
05-13-2008, 11:51 PM
The defense in the 8th lost this game. Can Swisher hit the cutoff man instead of airmailing it halfway up the first base line trying to throw out a runner tagging from third? Letting those runners move up killed us.

Get real. Those clowns with the bats should be flogged, flogged and ridiculed.

kittle42
05-13-2008, 11:52 PM
I seriously am not going to watch another game til next week, and that's only if they beat the snot out of SF. I am emotionally crushed enough by work every day. I don't need to be emotionally crushed by my recreational activities.

CLR01
05-13-2008, 11:52 PM
Uribe can't do it all.

Go get 'em tomorrow.

Scottiehaswheels
05-13-2008, 11:52 PM
Can Coop work with the pitchers on hitting for interleague instead of Walker?

JB98
05-13-2008, 11:52 PM
Wonderful Swisher acquisition!

How long are we going to carry on this 3-4-5 of slow station-to-station ridiculous baseball. NO OTHER TEAM PLAYS WITH AS LITTLE SPEED AS WE HAVE!

Maybe our lack of speed would hurt us if, ya know, we actually got someone on base for a change.

Any inability to take the extra base is inconsequential right now because we don't have anybody on the basepaths to begin with.

SoxSpeed22
05-13-2008, 11:53 PM
This should be interesting...
Blaming any of the pitchers or the defense is pointless because last time I checked, you have to score a run to win. Everyone knows where I stand with the offense and Walker.

Trav
05-13-2008, 11:53 PM
Did you see how they scored those two runs? Those were preventable. Sloppy defense doesn't help a struggling offense.

Get real. Those clowns with the bats should be flogged, flogged and ridiculed.

kittle42
05-13-2008, 11:53 PM
The defense in the 8th lost this game. Can Swisher hit the cutoff man instead of airmailing it halfway up the first base line trying to throw out a runner tagging from third? Letting those runners move up killed us.

That really didn't matter, unless MLB rules have changed so that 0-0 games after 9 innings are ties.

oeo
05-13-2008, 11:53 PM
The defense in the 8th lost this game. Can Swisher hit the cutoff man instead of airmailing it halfway up the first base line trying to throw out a runner tagging from third? Letting those runners move up killed us.

kittle42 may be making a visit to your house tonight.

JB98
05-13-2008, 11:53 PM
...And we haven't even hit our stride yet.

When this club gets in a rhythm, somebody is going to pay.

doublem23
05-13-2008, 11:54 PM
kittle42 may be making a visit to your house tonight.

I hope you have these handy:

http://www.xtremesled.com/newtemplate/catalog/images/balls%20of%20steel%20hood%20sized%20copy.jpg

kittle42
05-13-2008, 11:55 PM
kittle42 may be making a visit to your house tonight.

My bat is in hand...but I won't wear a Sox jersey, or I'd swing and miss.

hi im skot
05-13-2008, 11:55 PM
What a waste of time. This team should be ashamed.

roadrunner
05-13-2008, 11:55 PM
Jim Thome Against Relief Pitching Update:

4-41 (.098), with 20 K's

wow

Has a player as washed up as Thome ever hit in the three hole for as long as he has?

Has a player as bad as Swisher ever had as many radio and TV spots?

Other than Guillen, Cora and Martin has a team ever had a lighter hitting, lower OBP trio of middle infielders than Uribe, Ozuna and Ramirez?

JB98
05-13-2008, 11:56 PM
My bat is in hand...but I won't wear a Sox jersey, or I'd swing and miss.

Unless a runner is on first base, in which case you would hit a roller to the shortstop.

Noneck
05-13-2008, 11:56 PM
When this club gets in a rhythm, somebody is going to pay.
Is the carnival barker preachin that tune again?

kittle42
05-13-2008, 11:56 PM
Other than Guillen, Cora and Martin has a team ever had a lighter hitting, lower OBP trio of middle infielders than Uribe, Ozuna and Ramirez?

Ozzieball.

MetroPD
05-13-2008, 11:56 PM
And yet another pathetic display of run support. Danks good job buddy, Dotel great job, Quentin excellent play, everyone else-grab some straws, cause you guys suck.

pudge
05-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Quite simply this is a mediocre team at best.

JB98
05-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Is the carnival barker preachin that tune again?

Yes, he is. I'm starting to fear the Sox organization believes its own propaganda. :o:

Tragg
05-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Cabrera has reached base 9 times in 35 plate appearances as Sox leadoff hitter, for an OBP of .257. He's been "aggressive", walking a grand total of 1 time.

Has he gotten a single day off all year? One would think that as bad as Cabrera and Uribe hit (and lately field) that they'd get some regular time off....Nope. As predicted, not a thought given to replacing either of Ozzie's hackers.

We are back where we were after the Toronto series.....weren't some changes supposed to be made.

kittle42
05-13-2008, 11:58 PM
Is the carnival barker preachin that tune again?

No, tonight was it's not Greg Walker's fault.."that man is a wonderful hitting coach...hitting coach is the toughest uniformed position in baseball."

regionsox73
05-13-2008, 11:58 PM
Jim Thome reminds me of Robert Redford in the Natural, before Glen Close stood up and he shattered the clock.

sox1970
05-13-2008, 11:59 PM
I'd fire Greg Walker and not hire anyone. Let Gellinger show them the video they want, and let the ****ers figure it out themselves.

regionsox73
05-14-2008, 12:00 AM
I'd fire Greg Walker and not hire anyone. Let Gellinger show them the video they want, and let the ****ers figure it out themselves.

Tom Emanski

itsnotrequired
05-14-2008, 12:00 AM
Has a player as washed up as Thome ever hit in the three hole for as long as he has?

Dude is coming off a 35 HR, 96 RBI campaign. A month and a half of poor ball does not justify a "washed up" label.

JB98
05-14-2008, 12:01 AM
No, tonight was it's not Greg Walker's fault.."that man is a wonderful hitting coach...hitting coach is the toughest uniformed position in baseball."

Yeah, you're right. The "someone is going to pay" crap was last night.

The only people who are going to pay this season are Sox fans.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 12:02 AM
Dude is coming off a 35 HR, 96 RBI campaign. A month and a half of poor ball does not justify a "washed up" label.

I tend to agree, but it's how he's looking up there...it's not a "tough-luck" .220 he's hitting.

It's Time
05-14-2008, 12:02 AM
:hawk
"Someone is going to pay when this team hits it's stride":rolleyes:

sox1970
05-14-2008, 12:03 AM
Dude is coming off a 35 HR, 96 RBI campaign. A month and a half of poor ball does not justify a "washed up" label.

I beg to differ. If Thome ever has a good month the rest of his career I'd be very surprised.

Scottiehaswheels
05-14-2008, 12:03 AM
Holy hell?! Indians actually have a worse team batting average than us? I didn't think it was possible.

It's Time
05-14-2008, 12:03 AM
Dude is coming off a 35 HR, 96 RBI campaign. A month and a half of poor ball does not justify a "washed up" label.

Have you watched Thome this year?

kittle42
05-14-2008, 12:04 AM
Yeah, you're right. The "someone is going to pay" crap was last night.

The only people who are going to pay this season are Sox fans.

I already paid for 27 games last season and this season. I may not next season. It sucks that we have to re-up in November, before we see what Williams the genius does to "fix" things. I have fun going to ballgames, but not since I actually started expecting this team to win. I haven't had all that much fun at the park since late 2006.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:04 AM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:mmkrTT_0SojFWM:http://www.bway.net/~modcult/rb7m.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bway.net/~modcult/rb7m.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.randysrodeo.com/features/pistols/07.php&h=1460&w=985&sz=298&hl=en&start=8&tbnid=mmkrTT_0SojFWM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJohnny%2BRotten%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%2 6safe%3Doff)

To quote PiL: "Words are useless."

The first caller here on the post game show is making a lot of sense...boy oh boy...this team is just awful. Just awful. Wow.

JB98
05-14-2008, 12:05 AM
I tend to agree, but it's how he's looking up there...it's not a "tough-luck" .220 he's hitting.

I don't think Thome is "washed up" either, but that swing is a mess right now. Ditto Konerko. Ditto Swisher. Ditto Cabrera.

This is awful. I think you have the right idea about not watching for a week.

Tragg
05-14-2008, 12:06 AM
The sad thing is that the Angels came into this series on a losing streak....and they promptly put us on a losing streak.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 12:06 AM
This is awful. I think you have the right idea about not watching for a week.

I used to do that when I was a kid, because I'd get so worked up. I think it's time to revisit my childhood. Maybe Kelly Paris and Don Wakamatsu will show up, too!

itsnotrequired
05-14-2008, 12:07 AM
I beg to differ. If Thome ever has a good month the rest of his career I'd be very surprised.

Who are you, Kreskin?

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:08 AM
I already paid for 27 games last season and this season. I may not next season. It sucks that we have to re-up in November, before we see what Williams the genius does to "fix" things. I have fun going to ballgames, but not since I actually started expecting this team to win. I haven't had all that much fun at the park since late 2006.
I think that there will be a lot of people who don't re-up their season tix this year and they make you re-up in November so you don't decide to ditch in February after Kenny "I've only got fifty cents" Williams makes his moves...this gives me solace though, this team last year we were 20-18, we are now 18-20. So maybe we'll wind up finishing the season 90-72 instead of 72-90.

sox1970
05-14-2008, 12:08 AM
Who are you, Kreskin?

Yes, I'm Kreskin.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 12:09 AM
I think that there will be a lot of people who don't re-up their season tix this year and they make you re-up in November so you don't decide to ditch in February after Kenny "I've only got fifty cents" Williams makes his moves...this gives me solace though, this team last year we were 20-18, we are now 18-20. So maybe we'll wind up finishing the season 90-72 instead of 72-90.

I like it! But I won't get my hopes up.

I have $1.50. I can outspend the Yankees and KW!

JB98
05-14-2008, 12:10 AM
I already paid for 27 games last season and this season. I may not next season. It sucks that we have to re-up in November, before we see what Williams the genius does to "fix" things. I have fun going to ballgames, but not since I actually started expecting this team to win. I haven't had all that much fun at the park since late 2006.

I'd hate to give up my 27-game plan. But if the bad baseball continues and the economy continues to blow, I may have to consider it.

thomas35forever
05-14-2008, 12:10 AM
2008 Chicago White Sox present Craptacular Offense. Coming soon to a ballpark near you.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 12:12 AM
I'd hate to give up my 27-game plan. But if the bad baseball continues and the economy continues to blow, I may have to consider it.

I actually split season tix 3 ways...I just see no point in keeping my tickets if I end up selling/not using half my games and I could get into the ballpark any time I want, anyway.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:13 AM
I like it! But I won't get my hopes up.

I have $1.50. I can outspend the Yankees and KW!
Outspend? ****, you can BUY the Yankees and most of the AL East with a buck fifty.

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 12:14 AM
and that's only if they beat the snot out of SF

There may be some SF fans who say....cool, we can beat the Sox.

Scottiehaswheels
05-14-2008, 12:16 AM
There may be some SF fans who say....cool, we can beat the Sox.I'm looking forward to it. I'll bet our pitchers hit about .250 during the series which, sadly, helps raise the team batting average.

JB98
05-14-2008, 12:17 AM
I actually split season tix 3 ways...I just see no point in keeping my tickets if I end up selling/not using half my games and I could get into the ballpark any time I want, anyway.

I figure I can afford to attend about 18-20 games a year. That means I need to sell the other 7-9 to balance my budget. In 2005-06, that was no problem at all. People called me wanting tickets. Last year, I had to eat a few games because the Sox were so bad and I couldn't find any takers for my tickets.

I haven't run into that problem yet this year. YET. Hopefully, the team will be competitive enough that I won't have to deal with that. But I'm concerned.

I'm concerned about how the Sox are playing, and I'm concerned about possibly of having to bite the bullet and eat tickets the second half of the season.

Sockinchisox
05-14-2008, 12:17 AM
Cowley says Ozzie said changes are coming to the lineup tomorrow.

Scottiehaswheels
05-14-2008, 12:18 AM
Cowley says Ozzie said changes are coming to the lineup tomorrow.B.A. prolly starting in center for one. Thome benched. Dye prolly DH.

hi im skot
05-14-2008, 12:18 AM
Cowley says Ozzie said changes are coming to the lineup tomorrow.

I've heard that song and dance before.

oeo
05-14-2008, 12:18 AM
Cowley says Ozzie said changes are coming to the lineup tomorrow.

Cowley is a joke. I'll believe it when I see it.

And really, what can Ozzie do anyway? Moving the guys around won't do **** when Quentin is the only guy that's consistently swinging a good bat. You can drop guys, but who takes their spot...you can bench them, but who's on the bench to replace them? The lineup is just a mess right now.

It's time for the Sox to actually take action. Send a message: whether it's Walker getting the boot, Uribe getting cut...anything. The season is not a lost cause yet...let's not sit around and act like there's nothing wrong again.

AZChiSoxFan
05-14-2008, 12:19 AM
Tom Emanski

LOL.

Maybe we should all pitch in to order a copy of Tom's Instructional video and send it to the Sox.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 12:20 AM
Cowley says Ozzie said changes are coming to the lineup tomorrow.

Unless those changes involve people (1) not on the 25-man roster, and (2) not in Charlotte, I don't feel it's gonna help. Unless, of course, the Sox can convince MLB to allow Quentin to hit for everyone.

roadrunner
05-14-2008, 12:20 AM
Dude is coming off a 35 HR, 96 RBI campaign. A month and a half of poor ball does not justify a "washed up" label.

Way to cherry pick my question. I believe the full text was "Has a player as washed up as Thome ever hit in the three hole for as long as he has?

Even if you think he's not washed up (I don't know what you're watching), how can you justify hitting him third?

Not to mention sitting him against lefties and pinch hitting for him against LOOGEYS (and perhaps against any reliever based on the previously mentioned statistic).

I'm sure plenty of fans would like to identify with him because he's from Peoria and he's a nice guy but that doesn't change the fact that he's a completely one dimensional player with rapidly diminishing/vanishing skills.

sox1970
05-14-2008, 12:21 AM
Cowley says Ozzie said changes are coming to the lineup tomorrow.

Care to speculate what they could do?

As long as the "changes" don't involve Ozuna or Ramirez starting and leading off, I'm not sure what they can do.

It's getting to the point where they should just put Swisher back to 1, and tell him he's staying there.

I'd just go Swisher, Cabrera, Quentin, Dye, Pierzynski, Konerko, Thome, Crede, Uribe

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 12:22 AM
I'm looking forward to it. I'll bet our pitchers hit about .250 during the series which, sadly, helps raise the team batting average.

That was a good one. Good to see some humor in these posts.

Whatever happened to that corpseball picture?

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:22 AM
Cowley says Ozzie said changes are coming to the lineup tomorrow.
Just like how Uribe was supposed to be cut in Toronto?

The problems with this team are way beyond a simple shakeup of the lineup.

AZChiSoxFan
05-14-2008, 12:22 AM
I've heard that song and dance before.

Exactly. I agree with the other poster in this thread who said that the Sox brass is starting to believe their own propaganda.

I guess they honestly believe that nothing is wrong with this team. Heck, they don't even have enough sense to start sitting Thome so that he won't be on the team next year.

itsnotrequired
05-14-2008, 12:23 AM
Way to cherry pick my question. I believe the full text was "Has a player as washed up as Thome ever hit in the three hole for as long as he has?

Even if you think he's not washed up (I don't know what you're watching), how can you justify hitting him third?

Not to mention sitting him against lefties and pinch hitting for him against LOOGEYS (and perhaps against any reliever based on the previously mentioned statistic).

I'm sure plenty of fans would like to identify with him because he's from Peoria and he's a nice guy but that doesn't change the fact that he's a completely one dimensional player with rapidly diminishing/vanishing skills.

You would make a terrible baseball manager/GM.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:24 AM
Care to speculate what they could do?

As long as the "changes" don't involve Ozuna or Ramirez starting and leading off, I'm not sure what they can do.

It's getting to the point where they should just put Swisher back to 1, and tell him he's staying there.

I'd just go Swisher, Cabrera, Quentin, Dye, Pierzynski, Konerko, Thome, Crede, Uribe
Good god no...the problem with the lineup is the players in aforementioned lineup, not what position they are hitting in.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 12:24 AM
I guess they honestly believe that nothing is wrong with this team. Heck, they don't even have enough sense to start sitting Thome so that he won't be on the team next year.

They will come June/July. Or will Williams stand pat and not get rid of the unneeded vets for a second straight season? That, to me, was THE most maddening thing to occur last season. It made ZERO sense, and, to me, solidified that Williams is not as smart as he thinks he is.

RockJock07
05-14-2008, 12:25 AM
Thome is bad, Konerko is bad, why do we make excuses for them? Thome is washed up, Konerko MAY have some value left. Also 3 SB off of a LHP is bull****. Bad game, taking the rest of the week off.

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 12:25 AM
Unless those changes involve people (1) not on the 25-man roster, and (2) not in Charlotte, I don't feel it's gonna help. Unless, of course, the Sox can convince MLB to allow Quentin to hit for everyone.

Well Barry Bonds is looking for work. Maybe he can introduce the club to some of that "magic" he's used for years. With the Sox luck the only thing would change is their hat sizes.

sox1970
05-14-2008, 12:27 AM
Good god no...the problem with the lineup is the players in aforementioned lineup, not what position they are hitting in.

This offense is screwed no matter what. If Swisher is supposed to be the leadoff guy, then let him play through it. At least he'll probably bounce back and start getting the OBP up.

Quentin is the best hitter. He should be batting 3rd.

Thome needs to buried down the lineup as far as possible.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:27 AM
They will come June/July. Or will Williams stand pat and not get rid of the unneeded vets for a second straight season? That, to me, was THE most maddening thing to occur last season. It made ZERO sense, and, to me, solidified that Williams is not as smart as he thinks he is.
If we're still playing this way in June we should be out of it, so yea, then there's no reason not to just say "We're awful, we're going to try and get young." Problem is I'm not so sure if I want Kenny heading up a youth movement, it's not like he's stacked the farm with studs...and I'm not so sure I'd want Ozzie managing that team either. If we're this bad in June it might be time for a purge of the front office.

Noneck
05-14-2008, 12:28 AM
Exactly. I agree with the other poster in this thread who said that the Sox brass is starting to believe their own propaganda.

I guess they honestly believe that nothing is wrong with this team. Heck, they don't even have enough sense to start sitting Thome so that he won't be on the team next year.


Don't believe they don't know the problems out there. They have dug themselves a hole that is difficult and next to impossible this year to get out of. All they can do now is turn on the propaganda machine at full blast..

roadrunner
05-14-2008, 12:29 AM
You would make a terrible baseball manager/GM.

I can see why you are a member of the WSI "Writing Staff."

Scottiehaswheels
05-14-2008, 12:30 AM
That was a good one. Good to see some humor in these posts.

Whatever happened to that corpseball picture?You think I'm kidding? I started a post awhile back calling for Ozzie to let the pitchers hit for a week or so and bench Thome. I'm serious.. They quite honestly can't do a helluva lot worse (as long as Walker doesn't "coach" them).

oeo
05-14-2008, 12:30 AM
They will come June/July. Or will Williams stand pat and not get rid of the unneeded vets for a second straight season? That, to me, was THE most maddening thing to occur last season. It made ZERO sense, and, to me, solidified that Williams is not as smart as he thinks he is.

He put guys on the trading block, and there was close to no interest. Relief pitching was the only thing that brought a return worthwhile at the deadline last year.

I can't fault Kenny for refusing to just give guys away. We would not be standing in a better position right now...it would be much, much worse.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:30 AM
Don't believe they don't know the problems out there. They have dug themselves a hole that is difficult and next to impossible this year to get out of. All they can do now is turn on the propaganda machine at full blast..
The problem is they keep digging the SAME hole! They keep getting a bunch of guys who swing for the fences and play station to station baseball. How long before they realize "Jeez...maybe a bunch of guys who are only capable of hitting homeruns is not the way to go."

MetroPD
05-14-2008, 12:30 AM
Our lineup should look like this

Thome
Crede
Cabrerra
Uribe
Swisher
Dye
Konerko
AJ
Quentin

Lets shake some things up.

itsnotrequired
05-14-2008, 12:30 AM
I can see why you are a member of the WSI "Writing Staff."

I had to bribe a lot of people.

PhillipsBubba
05-14-2008, 12:31 AM
This lineup is woeful...I can't believe KW will let this go on too long...or will he???

Geez Hawkeroo...now that we have Pablo Ozuna back, I expected so much more.:scratch:

jabrch
05-14-2008, 12:31 AM
B.A. prolly starting in center for one. Thome benched. Dye prolly DH.

When did this become a word? What is it actually saving people? 2 keystrokes? And why does it have 2 Ls? Probably only has one L. Why waste an L for an imaginary word?

I know the internet isn't the home of the greatest use of the English language...but

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:31 AM
I can see why you are a member of the WSI "Writing Staff."
Jesus the tension on this board! We should be mad at the damned team and bitching at them, not each other! Jesus!

itsnotrequired
05-14-2008, 12:32 AM
Jesus the tension on this board! We should be mad at the damned team and bitching at them, not each other! Jesus!

You don't hear much about Jesus these days...

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:32 AM
Our lineup should look like this

Thome
Crede
Cabrerra
Uribe
Swisher
Dye
Konerko
AJ
Quentin

Lets shake some things up.
It really can't get a whole lot worse.

Scottiehaswheels
05-14-2008, 12:32 AM
Our lineup should look like this

Thome
Crede
Cabrerra
Uribe
Swisher
Dye
Konerko
AJ
Quentin

Lets shake some things up.
Nah forget that.

Uribe
Quentin
Dye
A.J.
Crede
Pitcher
Swisher
Konerko
Cabrera

:)

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2008, 12:33 AM
You don't hear much about Jesus these days...
He's our big prospect in A Ball I hear.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 12:33 AM
You don't hear much about Jesus these days...

Are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball?

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 12:33 AM
Problem is I'm not so sure if I want Kenny heading up a youth movement, it's not like he's stacked the farm with studs...

There lies the problem. They might have some studs but they need ball players.

Sockinchisox
05-14-2008, 12:34 AM
Our lineup should look like this

Thome
Crede
Cabrerra
Uribe
Swisher
Dye
Konerko
AJ
Quentin

Lets shake some things up.

Don't drink and post.

Nellie_Fox
05-14-2008, 12:34 AM
When did this become a word? What is it actually saving people? 2 keystrokes? And why does it have 2 Ls? Probably only has one L. Why waste an L for an imaginary word?Because if he only used one L, you'd have to pronounce it with a long O sound. :tongue:

roadrunner
05-14-2008, 12:34 AM
The problem is they keep digging the SAME hole! They keep getting a bunch of guys who swing for the fences and play station to station baseball. How long before they realize "Jeez...maybe a bunch of guys who are only capable of hitting homeruns is not the way to go."

All the catch phrases and slogans and alleged philosophies they keep harping on only compound this frustration. The team couldn't be more unlike any of them.

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 12:36 AM
You think I'm kidding? I started a post awhile back calling for Ozzie to let the pitchers hit for a week or so and bench Thome. I'm serious.. They quite honestly can't do a helluva lot worse (as long as Walker doesn't "coach" them).

Yeah but this will be a time we'll miss Garland. I think he was the best hitter.

Scottiehaswheels
05-14-2008, 12:37 AM
Yeah but this will be a time we'll miss Garland. I think he was the best hitter.Vazquez has a .212 career batting average. I looked it up a week ago or so... Right now that would look pretty good in the 4th/5th spot.

peeonwrigley
05-14-2008, 12:42 AM
Its really disheartening to watch Swisher, Konerko, and Thome hit right now (amongst others).

I mean, they are just so bad.

What the ****, hit the ball.

RockJock07
05-14-2008, 12:43 AM
Its really disheartening to watch Swisher, Konerko, and Thome hit right now (amongst others).

I mean, they are just so bad.

What the ****, hit the ball.

Swisher at least gives good ab's, Konerko and Thome are bad and it must be addressed now.

peeonwrigley
05-14-2008, 12:46 AM
I figure I can afford to attend about 18-20 games a year. That means I need to sell the other 7-9 to balance my budget. In 2005-06, that was no problem at all. People called me wanting tickets. Last year, I had to eat a few games because the Sox were so bad and I couldn't find any takers for my tickets.

I haven't run into that problem yet this year. YET. Hopefully, the team will be competitive enough that I won't have to deal with that. But I'm concerned.

I'm concerned about how the Sox are playing, and I'm concerned about possibly of having to bite the bullet and eat tickets the second half of the season.

I opted out of my group of splitting season tix this season. I ate way too many games last year, and its so easy to just do the walk up thing, or snag some from a broker for cheap on game day.

Plus, the Sox never win when I go. I think I was like 3 for 18 or something ridiculous last year.

Beer Can Chicken
05-14-2008, 12:55 AM
Dude is coming off a 35 HR, 96 RBI campaign. A month and a half of poor ball does not justify a "washed up" label.

35 HR, 96 RBIs look like awesome #3 hitter stats....in 1986

JB98
05-14-2008, 12:59 AM
I opted out of my group of splitting season tix this season. I ate way too many games last year, and its so easy to just do the walk up thing, or snag some from a broker for cheap on game day.

Plus, the Sox never win when I go. I think I was like 3 for 18 or something ridiculous last year.

Sox record with me in attendance during the Ozzie era:
2004: 14-5
2005: 16-8
2006: 19-10
2007: 8-12
2008: 3-0
Total: 60-35

I actually think the team needs me. :D:

A. Cavatica
05-14-2008, 01:12 AM
I can't fault Kenny for refusing to just give guys away.

:ray :mack: :iguchi:

I can think of some bettter second basemen than Uribe that he did just give away...

Frankfan4life
05-14-2008, 01:15 AM
Well, once again, another game that was pretty much predictable from start to finish. Absolutely no surprises. Well, one surprise... We didn't get no hit.

This team is consistently failing to:

:angry: Get timely hits.
:angry: Throw out base stealers.
:angry: Field the ball.
:angry: Execute steals.
:angry: Execute bunts.

I could go on but I'm too tired.

michned
05-14-2008, 01:33 AM
Because if he only used one L, you'd have to pronounce it with a long O sound.

You mean like Mike Proly (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/prolymi01.shtml)?

SluggersAway
05-14-2008, 01:47 AM
When did this become a word? What is it actually saving people? 2 keystrokes? And why does it have 2 Ls? Probably only has one L. Why waste an L for an imaginary word?

I know the internet isn't the home of the greatest use of the English language...but

Because language evolves and you knew exactly what he meant so you did not need to go on a 130 letter rant. Or are you still lamenting the decline of the indo-european language?

Go Sox and get the Halos tomorrow!

Konerko05
05-14-2008, 02:35 AM
Fire Walker. Fire Walker now!

I don't think I will be able to stomach another season like 2007. I mean isn't it about time management starts to question this guy?

I realize Walker can not go up there and hit for our guys, but the thing that kills me is their approach. After seeing teams like the Twins and Angels execute their way to victory against us, you have to start looking at our coaches.

Why isn't Walker making our struggling players go opposite field? Especially during all these bases loaded/two men on, no out situations? We have like 5 starters hitting .220, but yet they still go up there hitting fly balls to left, or pulling weak ground balls to the short stop.

I always thought the best way to get out a slump was to start focusing on the hitting the ball opposite field. Going opposite field will help them stay closed and will also help them see the ball better. Walker should be making every player hitting .220 do this until their average is at least respectable.
I mean seriously, what is he doing with these guys? Have you seen any change in their hitting approach since the beginning of the season?

I really like the fact that the White Sox are preaching seeing more pitches and taking walks, but I think this approach is coming from Kenny Williams. I was thrilled when Kenny acquired a big OBP guy (Swisher) and to actually hear Kenny talk about OBP and taking pitches at the beginning of the season. I had no idea that the Sox would actually be drawing walks, but not getting hits. You're not going to score many runs by drawing walks with the bases loaded. Walker is just not the right man to execute William's plan.

Also wanted to add.....

How long are we going to let Swisher's defense in Center hurt us? I'd be able to live with mediocre defense if the guy could actually hit .250. He is not hitting, and it is making his defense much more noticeable.

If Guillen is going to start Swisher in Center, then he should at least consider putting BA in as a defensive replacement in the bottom of the 8th in a 0-0 game. At least BA has a chance of throwing out a runner tagging from third base. I mean at the very least he wouldn't have to lollipop the ball 50 feet in the air just to make it into the infield. Seriously, that throw was emabarassing. If you have the arm of a 12 year old girl, hit the ****ing cut of man!!!!!

Grzegorz
05-14-2008, 04:48 AM
I always thought the best way to get out a slump was to start focusing on the hitting the ball opposite field.

I thought it was trying to get greater bat control by shortening your swing and hitting the ball up the middle.

Going opposite field will help them stay closed and will also help them see the ball better. Walker should be making every player hitting .220 do this until their average is at least respectable. I mean seriously, what is he doing with these guys? Have you seen any change in their hitting approach since the beginning of the season?

What do you do when you fire Walker and these guys continue to struggle?

Also wanted to add.....


How long are we going to let Swisher's defense in Center hurt us? I'd be able to live with mediocre defense if the guy could actually hit .250. He is not hitting, and it is making his defense much more noticeable.

Maybe play BA should play more. Roll out different combinations at first base and DH maybe that gets BA some more at bats.

It's really a shame since the pitching, thought to be the weak link of the squad in '08, has done more than their part.

Ziggy S
05-14-2008, 04:53 AM
http://www.carolinamidlands.com/photogallery/Gamecocks/WeSuckAss-vi.jpg

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry:

Hmmm, this doesn't give me any perverted ideas now, right?

Ziggy S
05-14-2008, 04:56 AM
We should have someone with a radar gun and another person with a Taser behind home plate. Weak pop up with a runner in scoring position, your ass is tasered.

Don't tase me bro!

WSox597
05-14-2008, 05:54 AM
Way to cherry pick my question. I believe the full text was "Has a player as washed up as Thome ever hit in the three hole for as long as he has?

Even if you think he's not washed up (I don't know what you're watching), how can you justify hitting him third?

Not to mention sitting him against lefties and pinch hitting for him against LOOGEYS (and perhaps against any reliever based on the previously mentioned statistic).

I'm sure plenty of fans would like to identify with him because he's from Peoria and he's a nice guy but that doesn't change the fact that he's a completely one dimensional player with rapidly diminishing/vanishing skills.

Sounds like Frank Thomas, well except for the 'nice guy' part. :D:

It looks like a real bad stretch for Thome, but I think he'll bounce back. He's even hit several homers against lefties this year.

itsnotrequired
05-14-2008, 06:07 AM
35 HR, 96 RBIs look like awesome #3 hitter stats....in 1986

Hafner hit in the three hole for nearly all of last season:24 HR, 100 RBIs. Ortiz hit 35/117 but had 131 more PAs. Abreu hit 16/101 in 160 more PAs. Vlad hit 27/125 but had two .345+ OBP guys hitting ahead of him. Thome didn't have that advantage. Out of all these guys, only Ortiz had a higher OBP than Thome.

How is Thome's 2007 season not considered good again?

Viva Medias B's
05-14-2008, 07:00 AM
If this is how we are going to be this season, by that I mean a repeat of the 2007 mediocrity, I think we need to clean house from top to bottom (and not cling to the 2005 World Series glory to justify keeping certain underachievers on board).

Viva Medias B's
05-14-2008, 07:04 AM
You don't hear much about Jesus these days...

We certainly could use His help.

Bucky F. Dent
05-14-2008, 07:06 AM
Dude is coming off a 35 HR, 96 RBI campaign. A month and a half of poor ball does not justify a "washed up" label.


I'd like to think so, but at a certain age when it goes away, it goes away quickly.

Bucky F. Dent
05-14-2008, 07:10 AM
You don't hear much about Jesus these days...


What's his .obp?

turners56
05-14-2008, 07:10 AM
Once again, I am left thinking: If the Royals can score 8 runs off Weaver in 3.1 innings why the hell can't we? Hell, we got a hit off the guy in 7 freaking innings. The offense is making me sick, Danks pitched so well. Couldn't we flip-flop the offensive performances this series? When we score, our starter pitches like crap. When we don't, they get screwed. This is not the forumula for winning baseball.

rdwj
05-14-2008, 07:19 AM
You don't hear much about Jesus these days...

http://lanceseymour.com/jesus.jpg

Nobody ****s with the Jesus!

Lillian
05-14-2008, 07:21 AM
I was perhaps the strongest advocate of trying to break up this slow, all or nothing offense, over the winter. I thought that trading Konerko would have been the most feasible move, especially after we acquired Swisher. Now that seems like a remote possibility, considering his poor start, and his newly acquired no trade status.
I also vehemently advocated platooning Thome with anyone who could hit Lefties. At the time Fields seemed like the best choice, but that is temporarily out of the question.

At this point I think the best thing they can do is the following:
1) Put Konerko on the DL until his thumb heals
2) Play Brian in Center. At least he would bring defense, energy and hope for the future.
3) Move Quentin to Right, and Dye to Left.
4) Swisher moves to First
5) Find anyone who can get on base and run and bat him leadoff. If he's not a good defensive player, or has no position, let him DH. We sure aren't getting anything out of the DH now, especially vs. Lefties.

Until they can get some other players, the lineup should look like this:
1 Swisher should go back to leadoff, until they find a true leadoff hitter.
2 Cabrera goes back to the two hole, and better start to demonstrate that tauted ability to move up runners.
3 Quentin is the best choice given his OBP, willingness to hit to right, and his better than average speed.
4 Dye bats clean up
5 Thome
6 Crede
7 A. J. bats 5th, as long as he continues to hit
8 Anderson
9 Uribe

Next year:
Don't resign Cabrera, or Thome.
Use the money to get some speed, and decent batting average.

I feel better. Thanks

Thome25
05-14-2008, 07:58 AM
I can't stand watching this offense......the makeup of our lineup is terrible....I actually smile when we lose because I know changes will have to be made if things keep going this way.......relief for my aching head is coming if we keep losing!!:bandance:

jenn2080
05-14-2008, 08:05 AM
Oh I am so glad I do not stay up and watch this crap. The offense could not hit a 16 in softball right now.

October26
05-14-2008, 08:09 AM
I was perhaps the strongest advocate of trying to break up this slow, all or nothing offense, over the winter. I thought that trading Konerko would have been the most feasible move, especially after we acquired Swisher. Now that seems like a remote possibility, considering his poor start, and his newly acquired no trade status.
I also vehemently advocated platooning Thome with anyone who could hit Lefties. At the time Fields seemed like the best choice, but that is temporarily out of the question.

At this point I think the best thing they can do is the following:
1) Put Konerko on the DL until his thumb heals
2) Play Brian in Center. At least he would bring defense, energy and hope for the future.
3) Move Quentin to Right, and Dye to Left.
4) Swisher moves to First
5) Find anyone who can get on base and run and bat him leadoff. If he's not a good defensive player, or has no position, let him DH. We sure aren't getting anything out of the DH now, especially vs. Lefties.

Until they can get some other players, the lineup should look like this:
1 Swisher should go back to leadoff, until they find a true leadoff hitter.
2 Cabrera goes back to the two hole, and better start to demonstrate that tauted ability to move up runners.
3 Quentin is the best choice given his OBP, willingness to hit to right, and his better than average speed.
4 Dye bats clean up
5 Thome
6 Crede
7 A. J. bats 5th, as long as he continues to hit
8 Anderson
9 Uribe

Next year:
Don't resign Cabrera, or Thome.
Use the money to get some speed, and decent batting average.

I feel better. Thanks

You make some excellent points, here Lillian. I agree with most of them. Like all of you, I am angry and disappointed with the Sox play so far this year. Things started off so well in April, and then what, it's 2007 all over again!?! It seems like the hitting slump has infected almost everybody on the team. Most teams would kill for the kind of pitching that our starters have been giving us. But how long will the good pitching continue? This is a Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde team - they score 7 runs one game and 0 runs the next. I know one thing, my headache from yesterday and the day before continues.

One last thing - why is it that players look so good in other uniforms, come over to the Sox and then play horrible (see Swisher and Cabrera). Jeez!

doublem23
05-14-2008, 08:10 AM
:ray :mack: :iguchi:

I can think of some bettter second basemen than Uribe that he did just give away...

Is that Rob Mackowiak?

:rolling:

I know the going's tough right now, everyone, but let's not be crazy. He was terrible.

doublem23
05-14-2008, 08:13 AM
They will come June/July. Or will Williams stand pat and not get rid of the unneeded vets for a second straight season? That, to me, was THE most maddening thing to occur last season. It made ZERO sense, and, to me, solidified that Williams is not as smart as he thinks he is.

I disagree... Before the season we were all whining and complaining about the starting pitching and how it would never be good enough to hang with the juggernauts in Detroit and Cleveland, and yet, KW stuck to his guns, and has assembled one of the best staffs in the American League. If these guys could just be below average offensively, the Sox would be rocking everyone.

Instead, they're absymal.

We need a Fire Walker tag ASAP. The time has come. I don't care if it's just symbolic, this nonsense has been going on for way too long.

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2008, 08:17 AM
If this is how we are going to be this season, by that I mean a repeat of the 2007 mediocrity, I think we need to clean house from top to bottom (and not cling to the 2005 World Series glory to justify keeping certain underachievers on board).

I agree. But Buehrle has the NTC and PK has 10-5 rights, so it's hard to deal either. But Contreras, Thome, Dye, Cabrera and Uribe all are fair game. Crede should be re-signed; Fields can DH and occasionally back up 3B & LF.

That yields a solid nucleus of Paulie, AJ, Crede, Quentin, Swisher, Fields, Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Linebrink, Ramirez, BA and Richar. Supplement with a few smart free agent acquisitions and I think the team is faster, still has solid power, hits for a decent average, plays good defense, and pitches well.

Viva Medias B's
05-14-2008, 08:19 AM
I agree. But Buehrle has the NTC and PK has 10-5 rights, so it's hard to deal either. But Contreras, Thome, Dye, Cabrera and Uribe all are fair game. Crede should be re-signed; Fields can DH and occasionally back up 3B & LF.

That yields a solid nucleus of Paulie, AJ, Crede, Quentin, Swisher, Fields, Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Linebrink, Ramirez, BA and Richar. Supplement with a few smart free agent acquisitions and I think the team is faster, still has solid power, hits for a decent average, plays good defense, and pitches well.

I do agree with that in principle, but can we trust KW to do what you suggest?

alohafri
05-14-2008, 08:29 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/Carnac.jpg

"I don't see Jim Thome having another good month."

SOXPHILE
05-14-2008, 08:37 AM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31DRSMJHB8L._AA262_.jpg

"Hello ! I'd like to introduce myself to you, White Sox players. Please feel free to hit the ball, circle the bases, and touch me as many times as possible. That IS the object of this game you know !"

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2008, 08:39 AM
I do agree with that in principle, but can we trust KW to do what you suggest?

I think KW out-thought himself after 2005. He traded for Thome and then re-signed Paulie.

Since then he's tried to re-make the rotation. In large measure he's succeeded, with the offense carrying the team in 2006.

After the offense failed in 2007 and again in 2008, I think KW is smart enough to realize that he needs a legitimate leadoff hitter and a bit more speed throughout the lineup. I think he wanted to try to sign Ichiro, but the Mariners locked him up before he even reached free agency.

Unfortunately, I think Crede will leave and we'll have Fields at 3B. But that will open up the DH spot, and that would allow the Sox to plug in a leadoff hitter there, or have a leadoff hitter play LF and use the DH to "rest" the outfielders and Paulie. Maybe Juan Pierre would be an option?

alohafri
05-14-2008, 08:52 AM
I Maybe Juan Pierre would be an option?

Isn't he 75?

The Dude
05-14-2008, 08:55 AM
I beg to differ. If Thome ever has a good month the rest of his career I'd be very surprised.

*****:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You are worse than "It's Time"

jabrch
05-14-2008, 09:12 AM
We must be 18 games out with 19 to go. Season is over. You guys are right...

Oh - wait... Are you serious? We are only two games out and the season is 75% in front of us? Really? Crap - from all the pissing and moaning here, you'd think the season is over.


Well, it must be a complete disaster then - where nobody can do anything right.

Oh - wait...really? Is that true? We have 4 SP with ERAs under 3.75, including one under 2.75?

That must mean our bullpen has sucked - majorly - and can't get anyone out. Are you serious? Really? The four top guys in the pen (Dotel, Linebrink, Boone Logan and Jenks) have all shown various degrees of success? They have 3 losses combined in 80 appearances? Our team ERA in one of the most hitter friendly parks is under 4.00.

For as miserable as these past few weeks have been offensively, the world has yet to come to an end and I see no reason why people would are always so damn negative about everything. Some folks here just seem so miserable about this... I don't get it.

southside rocks
05-14-2008, 09:19 AM
I did not see the game tonight, did the Sox not use thier bats again? OH MY THE HITTING BLOWS. This is no slump, it is a trend. Time to launch people, it don't matter who.

I feel the same way, and I maintained optimism to a ridiculous point in the 2007 season. I can't do it again this year.

The defense in the 8th lost this game. Can Swisher hit the cutoff man instead of airmailing it halfway up the first base line trying to throw out a runner tagging from third? Letting those runners move up killed us.

Farmio and Stoney absolutely reamed Swish for this, and then JD did the same thing -- threw to the plate with no chance to cut off the 2nd run, allowing the batter to take second. Those moves didn't lose the game, but they were just STUPID defensive baseball. This is Ozzie Guillen's team?!?! :angry:

I was perhaps the strongest advocate of trying to break up this slow, all or nothing offense, over the winter. I thought that trading Konerko would have been the most feasible move, especially after we acquired Swisher. Now that seems like a remote possibility, considering his poor start, and his newly acquired no trade status.
I also vehemently advocated platooning Thome with anyone who could hit Lefties. At the time Fields seemed like the best choice, but that is temporarily out of the question.

At this point I think the best thing they can do is the following:
1) Put Konerko on the DL until his thumb heals
2) Play Brian in Center. At least he would bring defense, energy and hope for the future.
3) Move Quentin to Right, and Dye to Left.
4) Swisher moves to First
5) Find anyone who can get on base and run and bat him leadoff. If he's not a good defensive player, or has no position, let him DH. We sure aren't getting anything out of the DH now, especially vs. Lefties.

Until they can get some other players, the lineup should look like this:
1 Swisher should go back to leadoff, until they find a true leadoff hitter.
2 Cabrera goes back to the two hole, and better start to demonstrate that tauted ability to move up runners.
3 Quentin is the best choice given his OBP, willingness to hit to right, and his better than average speed.
4 Dye bats clean up
5 Thome
6 Crede
7 A. J. bats 5th, as long as he continues to hit
8 Anderson
9 Uribe

Next year:
Don't resign Cabrera, or Thome.
Use the money to get some speed, and decent batting average.

I feel better. Thanks

I agree with you. There was a mention in a news story today that Konerko's hand has bothered him since the last Baltimore game. It's time to DL him, he's not helping the team by trying to play through this. And Swish is out of place in CF, and Anderson has earned the right to play there this year, IMO. I loved BA in 2006, I loathed him in 2007, and I hope that we're now seeing the mature Anderson, and that he will get a chance to play every day.

Good gosh, I'm so sick of crappy baseball! :whiner:

Thome25
05-14-2008, 09:24 AM
We must be 18 games out with 19 to go. Season is over. You guys are right...

Oh - wait... Are you serious? We are only two games out and the season is 75% in front of us? Really? Crap - from all the pissing and moaning here, you'd think the season is over.


Well, it must be a complete disaster then - where nobody can do anything right.

Oh - wait...really? Is that true? We have 3 SP with ERAs under 3.75, including one under 2.75?

That must mean our bullpen has sucked - majorly - and can't get anyone out. Are you serious? Really? The four top guys in the pen (Dotel, Linebrink, Boone Logan and Jenks) have all shown various degrees of success? They have 3 losses combined in 80 appearances? Our team ERA in one of the most hitter friendly parks is under 4.00.

For as miserable as these past few weeks have been offensively, the world has yet to come to an end and I see no reason why people would are always so damn negative about everything. Some folks here just seem so miserable about this... I don't get it.

The sunny/optimist approach is reserved for the other side of town. This fanbase knows when it's looking at a trend with this offense.

This has been going on for almost 2 years now.....why should we expect any different?

Besides, KW has been building offenses like this one ( the hot-and-cold, slow, plodding, slump prone type.) for the better part of the new millenium.

We're smart enough to know when our team looks like crap.....and right now this team does with no end in sight.

If it looks like a steaming pile of crap and smells like a steaming pile of crap....then it must be crap....and that's called being a realist which is what being a Sox fan is all about. (NOT being a chicken little or pants pisser.)

doublem23
05-14-2008, 09:26 AM
For as miserable as these past few weeks have been offensively, the world has yet to come to an end and I see no reason why people would are always so damn negative about everything. Some folks here just seem so miserable about this... I don't get it.

It's hard to stay positive when this is nearly the exact same formula the Sox followed last year. I don't remember how long I kept chanting, if they could only start hitting, everything would be OK.

The only solace to take right now, IMO, is that even with 2+ weeks of terrible play, the Sox are still only 2 GB Minnesota, who is far less than than threatening, but every game the Indians put between them and us is concerning.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 09:34 AM
If it looks like a steaming pile of crap and smells like a steaming pile of crap....then it must be crap....and that's called being a realist which is what being a Sox fan is all about. (NOT being a chicken little or pants pisser.)

It looks two game out of first place to me...

Thome25
05-14-2008, 09:41 AM
It looks two game out of first place to me...

You might be looking at things through rose-colored glasses.....look at the bigger picture with this team and you might see things on the other side of the coin.

Right now, this team is LUCKY to only be 2 games back.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 09:46 AM
It's hard to stay positive when this is nearly the exact same formula the Sox followed last year. I don't remember how long I kept chanting, if they could only start hitting, everything would be OK.

The only solace to take right now, IMO, is that even with 2+ weeks of terrible play, the Sox are still only 2 GB Minnesota, who is far less than than threatening, but every game the Indians put between them and us is concerning.


I agree with you doublem - on both points.

It is hard to stay positive in the wake of such poor offense. But the truth is that while it is possible we hit this poorly all year, players have a long standing history of hitting within 10% of their 3 year moving avgs. If our guys do that, we will be just fine given how good our pitching has been.

To your second point, I agree 100% that Minny really isn't my biggest worry. Those guys are getting thinner and thinner. Losing Neshek hurts... and they were already thinner. Cleveland is who scares me most - they are similar to us in many ways. They are hitting worse than us (avg, obp and slg) but pitching better than us. (Cliff Lee has been downright sick)

If they get started hitting, (Hafner, Garko, Blake, Michaels, Perralta, etc.) they can be dangerous...but the same is true about us...

kittle42
05-14-2008, 09:47 AM
If we're still playing this way in June we should be out of it, so yea, then there's no reason not to just say "We're awful, we're going to try and get young." Problem is I'm not so sure if I want Kenny heading up a youth movement, it's not like he's stacked the farm with studs...and I'm not so sure I'd want Ozzie managing that team either. If we're this bad in June it might be time for a purge of the front office.

That would be a good thing for this team. Guillen's managing is questionable. Williams is hit or miss, and the hits aren't really that big.

roadrunner
05-14-2008, 09:47 AM
It looks two game out of first place to me...

In two weeks it will look like four. In a month it will be six. Etc.

You'll be saying the same thing all along the way even though the team is under 500 and looking like crap. "We're only ___ games out".

jabrch
05-14-2008, 09:49 AM
You might be looking at things through rose-colored glasses.....look at the bigger picture with this team and you might see things on the other side of the coin.

Right now, this team is LUCKY to only be 2 games back.

While it is true that we are lucky that Minny, Detoilet and Cleveland have all played poorly, it is just the facts. Sorta reminds me of BP saying we had an 95% chance of making the post season after we clinched...

Of course I look at it through rose colored glasses. But I am still looking at FACTS. I could choose to be more negative, but that's not required to be a good fan. I'm not distorting facts to make a point. We have some of the best pitching in the AL, in a hitters park. We have guys who have a history of producing offensively much better than they have this season. There is reason to believe things will get better. Who knows? Maybe they won't. But to bury this team before May 15th when they are two games out is silly. People complained about the White Flag trade...this attitude is much worse.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-14-2008, 09:51 AM
I regret staying up last night to watch The Southside No-Hitmen.

Jered Weaver had gotten shelled in his last start against the Royals and our offense can muster up only 1 hit against him. :angry:

I've been defending this team as much as I can but last night was all I could handle. I know that there is plenty of season left and that's what scares me because if we have more outings like last night I'm going to have gray hair this summer.

I do want to give kudos to Danks for pitching the way he did. If anyone deserved to beat up a heater it was him. Actually I thought he was going to, did anyone hear read his lips as he made his way to the dugout?

kittle42
05-14-2008, 09:52 AM
Because language evolves and you knew exactly what he meant so you did not need to go on a 130 letter rant. Or are you still lamenting the decline of the indo-european language?

If this is the evolution of language, it's not long before we go back to grunts and pointing - after all, you knew what he meant!

People are lazy and stupid.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 09:54 AM
What do you do when you fire Walker and these guys continue to struggle?

I hate this argument...fire the ****er, anyway. You don't keep employing coaches when they get no results from their players, then say "well, what are they going to do, the players suck." Sports just doesn't work like that. Fire the great Walker now and deal with the players later.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 09:58 AM
For as miserable as these past few weeks have been offensively, the world has yet to come to an end and I see no reason why people would are always so damn negative about everything. Some folks here just seem so miserable about this... I don't get it.

Because even with *some* small level of offensive consistency, the Sox would have 4-5 more wins, maybe more. You have to take control of the division while the other teams are down. Your premise is based on the assumption that the Sox will get better and everyone else will stay the same. You can't say "it's early." In the end, a win on May 13 is just as significant as a win on September 13.

doublem23
05-14-2008, 10:00 AM
I hate this argument...fire the ****er, anyway. You don't keep employing coaches when they get no results from their players, then say "well, what are they going to do, the players suck." Sports just doesn't work like that. Fire the great Walker now and deal with the players later.

Yes. Walker's offense has been sporadic, at best since sometime in 2006. Just give someone a chance. How much worse can it get right now? While we wait for Greg Walker to figure something out, the Sox pitching staff has been kicking major ass; if these guys could find a way to score 4-5 runs consistently, we'd be running away with the Central division. Instead, we're twiddling our thumbs, waiting for Walker to finally show some results, and slowly getting buried in mediocre offense.

Fire Walker, try someone else, if these guys don't hit by the end of this year, blow up the whole line-up and try a new approach, but don't just sit there and let this pitching staff go to waste because someone might, in theory do as bad a job as Greg Walker has been doing.

This team can compete, but they NEED TO HIT THE MOTHER****ING BALL.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 10:02 AM
Fire Walker, try someone else, fi these guys don't hit by the end of this year, blow up the whole line-up and try a new approach, but don't just sit there and let this pitching staff go to waste because someone might, in theory do as bad a job as Greg Walker has been doing.

I am still fuming over Hawk and DJ's comments re: Walker and hitting coaches in general last night, hence my titling of this thread. Hawk has said some DUMB, DUMB bull**** is his time, but that took the cake. Worse than anything. If I wrote a newspaper column, they would have needed two pages to print everything I'd have to say about it.

peeonwrigley
05-14-2008, 10:11 AM
Yes. Walker's offense has been sporadic, at best since sometime in 2006. Just give someone a chance. How much worse can it get right now? While we wait for Greg Walker to figure something out, the Sox pitching staff has been kicking major ass; if these guys could find a way to score 4-5 runs consistently, we'd be running away with the Central division. Instead, we're twiddling our thumbs, waiting for Walker to finally show some results, and slowly getting buried in mediocre offense.

Fire Walker, try someone else, if these guys don't hit by the end of this year, blow up the whole line-up and try a new approach, but don't just sit there and let this pitching staff go to waste because someone might, in theory do as bad a job as Greg Walker has been doing.

This team can compete, but they NEED TO HIT THE MOTHER****ING BALL.


:hawk

"You just don't understand baseball these days. Walk can tell them how to approach the game, but the hitters don't have to listen. And they won't. Hardest uniform job in baseball. Players too concerned with their own stats."

:rolleyes:

ondafarm
05-14-2008, 10:12 AM
At the risk of taking another six month long "vacation" . . .

perhaps we should fire Guillen?

fquaye149
05-14-2008, 10:22 AM
We must be 18 games out with 19 to go. Season is over. You guys are right...

Oh - wait... Are you serious? We are only two games out and the season is 75% in front of us? Really? Crap - from all the pissing and moaning here, you'd think the season is over.


Well, it must be a complete disaster then - where nobody can do anything right.

Oh - wait...really? Is that true? We have 4 SP with ERAs under 3.75, including one under 2.75?

That must mean our bullpen has sucked - majorly - and can't get anyone out. Are you serious? Really? The four top guys in the pen (Dotel, Linebrink, Boone Logan and Jenks) have all shown various degrees of success? They have 3 losses combined in 80 appearances? Our team ERA in one of the most hitter friendly parks is under 4.00.

For as miserable as these past few weeks have been offensively, the world has yet to come to an end and I see no reason why people would are always so damn negative about everything. Some folks here just seem so miserable about this... I don't get it.

Oh totally. You're right. This is definitely a team that has earned any amount of optimism from its fans.

:rolleyes:

doublem23
05-14-2008, 10:23 AM
At the risk of taking another six month long "vacation" . . .

perhaps we should fire Guillen?

Maybe, but he's doing a damn good job with 1/2 the team.

If someone would have told me in March that Mark Buehrle would be the worst starter on this team, I'd have either though we'd be totally screwed (like worst record in baseball bad), or running away with the division.

fquaye149
05-14-2008, 10:26 AM
Maybe, but he's doing a damn good job with 1/2 the team.

If someone would have told me in March that Mark Buehrle would be the worst starter on this team, I'd have either though we'd be totally screwed (like worst record in baseball bad), or running away with the division.

That's what's truly scary about this team, though--the pitchers are playing out of their minds, beyond our wildest dreams, and we're still losing.

Yes, the lineup MIGHT start picking up the slack, but it's a lot more likely that Danks, Floyd, and Contreras's ERA's will creep up towards 4.00+ than our lineup suddenly starts hitting WHILE they keep pitching out of their mind.

Most likely what will happen is by the time our hitters start doing their ****ing jobs, the pitching will have settled back down to earth and we will have missed a golden ****ing opportunity to win some games early on in an increasingly crappy division

Optipessimism
05-14-2008, 10:30 AM
At the risk of taking another six month long "vacation" . . .

perhaps we should fire Guillen?

Firing Ozzie isn't going to raise anyone's batting average. Besides, Ozzie isn't the hitting coach. He's not a pitching coach either. So if you're going to blame the offense on him which he isn't instructing then you have to praise him for his pitching staff, which he isn't instructing either.

The problem with this offense is the lack of balance once again. We have a much better offense than last year, but there still isn't balance. We can only win in one fashion- the home run. We need a guy at the top and a couple guys at the bottom who can get on and make something happen. We need better contact as well in contact situations.

That does not mean I'm advocating Jerry Owens in the OF. Hell no. But I think the priority should be finding a lead-off man and rearranging the lineup. Obviously Brian Roberts would be perfect, but that's unlikely. For the short term I'd like to see Thome the hell out of the 3 spot and Quentin stuck in there, which is a spot he could solidify for the next 5-6 years or more. A top 5 of Cabrera-AJ-Quentin-Dye-Konerko would be where I'd start. At least there's some contact there.

AZChiSoxFan
05-14-2008, 10:42 AM
People are lazy and stupid.

Don't forget fat, too.

sox1970
05-14-2008, 10:43 AM
At the risk of taking another six month long "vacation" . . .

perhaps we should fire Guillen?

Guillen won't get fired. He'll quit, if anything.

I'd be interested to see if Kenny Williams sticks around. To have Konerko, Thome, Dye, Crede, Uribe, and Pierzynski on the same team in 2008 is ridiculous. They're paying for it. Thome is done. Konerko is on the way down. Dye can't play outfield anymore. Crede and Pierzynski are aging quickly--and Crede should have been moved for anything in March.

Personally, I'd like to see this offense blown up. I'll accept a bad and young team for a couple years a lot more than a bad veteran team for a couple years.

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 10:46 AM
One last thing - why is it that players look so good in other uniforms, come over to the Sox and then play horrible (see Swisher and Cabrera). Jeez!

I guess that maybe it is the hitting coach.

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 10:47 AM
Well, one surprise... We didn't get no hit.


I wouldn't be surprised if that happens this year.

AZChiSoxFan
05-14-2008, 10:48 AM
At the risk of taking another six month long "vacation" . . .

perhaps we should fire Guillen?

I've been reading through this thread wondering when you would chime in.

For the record, I totally agree with you. I don't believe that OG is necessarily a bad coach, I just think he's worn out his welcome with this team and it's time to move in a new direction. Actually, let me clarify my position. If the Sox are only going to "tweak" the roster next year, then I would like to see a new skipper. If they decide to clean house and bring in several new players, then I think OG might be alright.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 10:50 AM
Because even with *some* small level of offensive consistency, the Sox would have 4-5 more wins, maybe more. You have to take control of the division while the other teams are down. Your premise is based on the assumption that the Sox will get better and everyone else will stay the same. You can't say "it's early." In the end, a win on May 13 is just as significant as a win on September 13.

I agree - we have squandered an opportunity. But so has Minny, Detroit and Cleveland.

AZChiSoxFan
05-14-2008, 10:54 AM
Firing Ozzie isn't going to raise anyone's batting average.

I'm with Kittle42. I hate this line of "reasoning." Well then, let's just not change anything and hope for the best.

Besides, there's no history of a team changing managers and suddenly taking off in the right direction.....(as long as we want to exclude the 82 Brew Crew, 2004 Astros, D-backs from 2000 to 2001, etc.)

Harry Chappas
05-14-2008, 10:58 AM
Guillen won't get fired. He'll quit, if anything.

I'd be interested to see if Kenny Williams sticks around. To have Konerko, Thome, Dye, Crede, Uribe, and Pierzynski on the same team in 2008 is ridiculous. They're paying for it. Thome is done. Konerko is on the way down. Dye can't play outfield anymore. Crede and Pierzynski are aging quickly--and Crede should have been moved for anything in March.

Personally, I'd like to see this offense blown up. I'll accept a bad and young team for a couple years a lot more than a bad veteran team for a couple years.

I agree completely. As much as I appreciate the '05 season, I'm sick and tired of this brand of baseball. Frankly, I hope to see Fields, Richar, Anderson, Ramirez, and Quentin in the starting lineup next year. After staying up last night, I would go so far as to say that I HATE this team right now. I would rather watch a group of young guys learn on the job than a bunch of aging veterans with quickly eroding skills.

Taliesinrk
05-14-2008, 11:14 AM
You don't hear much about Jesus these days...

Heck, I'd put Jesus in the line-up if it weren't for the fact that I once heard he couldn't hit a curveball.

EDIT: Jabrch beat me to it...

Jurr
05-14-2008, 11:14 AM
I agree completely. As much as I appreciate the '05 season, I'm sick and tired of this brand of baseball. Frankly, I hope to see Fields, Richar, Anderson, Ramirez, and Quentin in the starting lineup next year. After staying up last night, I would go so far as to say that I HATE this team right now. I would rather watch a group of young guys learn on the job than a bunch of aging veterans with quickly eroding skills.
This brand of baseball wasn't featured in '05. It was featured from '00 to the current day, with '05 being the exception. After getting pissed on by the Twins for years, they finally emphasized fundamentals and team baseball. They won. This style doesn't.

I'm SICK AND ****ING TIRED of having a pretty good feeling by May that this team is destined for third place (or worse). Every night you expect this team is going to lose and have to be convinced otherwise, and it's such a sad deal. Dammit!!!:angry:

SoxyStu
05-14-2008, 11:18 AM
:hawk

"You just don't understand baseball these days. Walk can tell them how to approach the game, but the hitters don't have to listen. And they won't. Hardest uniform job in baseball. Players too concerned with their own stats."

:rolleyes:

Hehe - I was out with some friends last night and I heard this crap, too.

Then, this ****ing dumbass continues on and says that teams should "hire 2 hitting coaches!!!!" :rolling: Great...so the organization can tie up money on two worthless pieces of **** who players won't listen to. What an excellent method of spending the team's resources...

kittle42
05-14-2008, 11:26 AM
I hope to see Fields, Richar, Anderson, Ramirez, and Quentin.

I hope to see better players than that, though different than the ones we have.

kitekrazy
05-14-2008, 11:36 AM
:hawk

"You just don't understand baseball these days. Walk can tell them how to approach the game, but the hitters don't have to listen. And they won't. Hardest uniform job in baseball. Players too concerned with their own stats."

:rolleyes:

This is why I can't stand to watch the Sox on TV anymore. I don't know which is worse, the Sox hitting or listening to Hawk and DJ.

Optipessimism
05-14-2008, 11:37 AM
I'm with Kittle42. I hate this line of "reasoning." Well then, let's just not change anything and hope for the best.

Besides, there's no history of a team changing managers and suddenly taking off in the right direction.....(as long as we want to exclude the 82 Brew Crew, 2004 Astros, D-backs from 2000 to 2001, etc.)
I know what you're saying but I think Ozzie is a special case, and his firing should only come as a result of bad decisions on the baseball field. When he's making Jerry Manuel-like Buehrle-vs.-the-Tigers-and-Cotts-vs.-the-Yankees type decisions then it's time to call for his head.

With Ozzie though, the man bleeds black and white. Some of his best friends are Sox fan favorites, like Robin Ventura, Harold Baines, etc. and he respects the owner and GM to a degree that is probably greater than a lot of FO relationships around baseball. Sometimes he says some really stupid ****, but he always defends the team and he's passionate about it.

I just think that what we're going through now, and what we've went through since the second half of '06 is NOT at all uncommon. This happens to every baseball team sooner or later. It happened to us for what, 88 years prior to 2005?

If we fire Ozzie and hire someone else, yeah, maybe we'd go on a little win streak or whatever, but I highly doubt we'd end up with another manager that is as visibly passionate about this franchise. Sooner or later we'd have another Manuel and fans would be calling for Ozzie again, saying we need someone who will say what needs to be said, someone with some fire who will speak his mind and go nuts from time to time.

And let's just face it. On paper, we have a good bullpen. The offense is capable of being a murder's row, but there's no balance and, as we've seen before, most recently in 2003 and 2006, without the right balance it is prone to go through mighty struggles. And even though the starting rotation, aside from Buehrle, is fantastic right now, we still have two rookies and a guy coming off a horrible year in our rotation. The SP isn't going to be as good as it's been all year, and it won't be long before people are calling for upgrades in that area too.

We just don't have the type of team that is so damn good that you could expect it to run away with the division. Most columnists picked the Sox for 3rd or lower before this season and many, if not most, Sox fans did the same thing. Our chances of running away with this thing were never very good from the start.

If you think the hitters need to be motivated, then look to the hitting coach. If you think the manager should be motivating the hitters, then who you you suggest bringing in? Why does Ozzie have to go? Is it because he's too firey? Should we bring in a coddler? I don't want a coddler. Or does Ozzie make the clubhouse too loose and carefree? Should we bring in a tightwad? I don't want a tightwad in here either.

If Ozzie should go, then who do you bring in and why? Or what type of personality do you bring in and why? What are your expectations of this team as it is on paper, and are your expectations so high that it is almost inconceivable to you that the Sox could be this bad? Because to me, we didn't exactly have the best team in the division before the season started and we still don't now.

oeo
05-14-2008, 11:41 AM
Besides, there's no history of a team changing managers and suddenly taking off in the right direction.....(as long as we want to exclude the 82 Brew Crew, 2004 Astros, D-backs from 2000 to 2001, etc.)

That's totally dependent on who you bring in...

You fire the manager right now, and I think you're throwing in the towel on the season. Yes, it is possible that whoever replaces him could get the team playing well, but that's a risky move.

There are other moves that can be made, rather than having a knee-jerk firing of Ozzie. I think Ozzie is having his best year of managing this year. It's not his fault no one is hitting. Yes, I'm biased because I think Ozzie is the right man for the job at this point in time, but so are many of you that think he's not.

MushMouth
05-14-2008, 11:44 AM
God I miss the Pods-Iguchi 1-2 of 2005

(NOT ADVOCATING BRINGING THEM BACK, just an observation)

kittle42
05-14-2008, 11:45 AM
God I miss the Pods-Iguchi 1-2 of 2005

(NOT ADVOCATING BRINGING THEM BACK, just an observation)

It was nice, but that team still had a generally ****ty offense.

southside rocks
05-14-2008, 11:51 AM
There are other moves that can be made, rather than having a knee-jerk firing of Ozzie. I think Ozzie is having his best year of managing this year. It's not his fault no one is hitting.

I'd agree with you on this. And the team has no speed, and doesn't have stellar defense -- two things, besides pitching, that he swears by. I'd like to see Ozzie get the players who play his brand of baseball, but that's not very likely to happen ... OTOH, Ken Williams was really steamed last year, and I believe he meant it when he said "last year didn't sit well with any of us and I'll be damned if we go through that again" this spring. He'll sink this ship himself before he'll watch it founder through the season.

Jurr
05-14-2008, 11:54 AM
God I miss the Pods-Iguchi 1-2 of 2005

(NOT ADVOCATING BRINGING THEM BACK, just an observation)
Nobody ever mentions the fact that the team had a DH that was the real catalyst behind the fast start. The man would change his approach when down in the count, maximize contact, hit behind runners, and could lace singles all over the place to knock in runs.

His value to a balanced offense, one capable of producing runs against many different types of pitcher, was immeasurable.

Apparently the Sox front office digs the long ball. Everett was blasted for ripping the Sox for not keeping the philosophy intact from '05 to '06, and he was spot on.

Jimmy Piersall
05-14-2008, 11:55 AM
It was nice, but that team still had a generally ****ty offense.

Yeah,it wasn't the '27 Yankees but the '05 bunch new
how to move runners over and get 'em in when needed.
The way the pitching staff has performed this year,as
a whole that is,if the offense could do even a little of
that "05 approach we'd be in a lot better shape...oh
yeah,we have to get on base first.

kittle42
05-14-2008, 11:59 AM
Yeah,it wasn't the '27 Yankees but the '05 bunch new
how to move runners over and get 'em in when needed.
The way the pitching staff has performed this year,as
a whole that is,if the offense could do even a little of
that "05 approach we'd be in a lot better shape...oh
yeah,we have to get on base first.

You are correct. 2-4 runs a game is ceratinly better than 0-1 like we see now.

Scottiehaswheels
05-14-2008, 12:01 PM
If this is the evolution of language, it's not long before we go back to grunts and pointing - after all, you knew what he meant!

People are lazy and stupid.

You are correct. 2-4 runs a game is certainly better than 0-1 like we see now.Fixed it for ya, gotta hate being corrected by stupid, lazy people.

ondafarm
05-14-2008, 12:15 PM
Heck, I'd put Jesus in the line-up if it weren't for the fact that I once heard he couldn't hit a curveball.


What? Are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

PaleHoser
05-14-2008, 12:17 PM
Thome will get three days off in San Francisco. If he can't find his swing after some time off, it will be time to bench him. I question whether he could hit with a three pound tennis racket right now.

Konerko should go on the DL. If his hand is bothering him to the point he can't hit, why's he playing? Move Swisher to first and call up Owens for CF and leadoff and bump remainder of lineup down one slot, and have Konerko DH when he comes off DL.

ondafarm
05-14-2008, 12:19 PM
. . . I think Ozzie is having his best year of managing this year. It's not his fault no one is hitting. . .

So it's not to his credit that in 2005 guys were hitting?

Lip Man 1
05-14-2008, 12:34 PM
Stu:

Well remember when Hawk was G.M. he had two pitching coaches, one specifically for the bullpen!

Lip

fquaye149
05-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Fixed it for ya, gotta hate being corrected by stupid, lazy people.

hoisted by one's own petard!

Huisj
05-14-2008, 12:39 PM
Thome will get three days off in San Francisco. If he can't find his swing after some time off, it will be time to bench him. I question whether he could hit with a three pound tennis racket right now.

Konerko should go on the DL. If his hand is bothering him to the point he can't hit, why's he playing? Move Swisher to first and call up Owens for CF and leadoff and bump remainder of lineup down one slot, and have Konerko DH when he comes off DL.

Owens is hitting pretty crappy at AAA right now. BA deserves a shot at regular playing time over him right now I think (Guillen may think differently though I suppose).

alohafri
05-14-2008, 12:45 PM
Owens is hitting pretty crappy at AAA right now. BA deserves a shot at regular playing time over him right now I think (Guillen may think differently though I suppose).

Despite it all, I still think Anderson can be a part of the future of this team. He isn't going to improve sitting on the bench. If Paul goes DL, I agree, move Swisher to 1st and put Anderson in center.

FedEx227
05-14-2008, 12:47 PM
So it's not to his credit that in 2005 guys were hitting?

You're forgetting Rule #1 of WSI: Every coach and figurehead (Ozzie, KW, Walker, Coop) gets credit for 2005, however anything since then is completely not their fault and only the players wrong-doing because they are veteran players.

alohafri
05-14-2008, 12:56 PM
You're forgetting Rule #1 of WSI: Every coach and figurehead (Ozzie, KW, Walker, Coop) gets credit for 2005, however anything since then is completely not their fault and only the players wrong-doing because they are veteran players.

The young millionaires need to share in the blame and the credit.

MushMouth
05-14-2008, 01:15 PM
Nobody ever mentions the fact that the team had a DH that was the real catalyst behind the fast start. The man would change his approach when down in the count, maximize contact, hit behind runners, and could lace singles all over the place to knock in runs.

His value to a balanced offense, one capable of producing runs against many different types of pitcher, was immeasurable.

Apparently the Sox front office digs the long ball. Everett was blasted for ripping the Sox for not keeping the philosophy intact from '05 to '06, and he was spot on.

you are right there - it wasn't the best offense in the world, but with good pitching, they knew how to approach AB's and manufacture a run or two (think how many games that would won this year, very similar to '05 in terms of pitching).

ondafarm
05-14-2008, 01:18 PM
You're forgetting Rule #1 of WSI: Every coach and figurehead (Ozzie, KW, Walker, Coop) gets credit for 2005, however anything since then is completely not their fault and only the players wrong-doing because they are veteran players.

You are correct, I forgot that.

Bob G
05-14-2008, 01:20 PM
I was perhaps the strongest advocate of trying to break up this slow, all or nothing offense, over the winter. I thought that trading Konerko would have been the most feasible move, especially after we acquired Swisher. Now that seems like a remote possibility, considering his poor start, and his newly acquired no trade status.
I also vehemently advocated platooning Thome with anyone who could hit Lefties. At the time Fields seemed like the best choice, but that is temporarily out of the question.

At this point I think the best thing they can do is the following:
1) Put Konerko on the DL until his thumb heals
2) Play Brian in Center. At least he would bring defense, energy and hope for the future.
3) Move Quentin to Right, and Dye to Left.
4) Swisher moves to First
5) Find anyone who can get on base and run and bat him leadoff. If he's not a good defensive player, or has no position, let him DH. We sure aren't getting anything out of the DH now, especially vs. Lefties.

Until they can get some other players, the lineup should look like this:
1 Swisher should go back to leadoff, until they find a true leadoff hitter.
2 Cabrera goes back to the two hole, and better start to demonstrate that tauted ability to move up runners.
3 Quentin is the best choice given his OBP, willingness to hit to right, and his better than average speed.
4 Dye bats clean up
5 Thome
6 Crede
7 A. J. bats 5th, as long as he continues to hit
8 Anderson
9 Uribe

Next year:
Don't resign Cabrera, or Thome.
Use the money to get some speed, and decent batting average.

I feel better. Thanks

Lillian you are right on. With PK on the DL I would give Brad Eldred a shot. He's hitting .298 with 36 RBI's and a 1.035 OPS. I know it's AAA but let's see what he can do- we don't have anything to lose.

Tragg
05-14-2008, 01:28 PM
. I think Ozzie is having his best year of managing this year. . Sounds like JR last year.
Not substituting the best outfielder on the team, even to protect a no hitter.
Putting the worst hitter on the team at leadoff - nice.

MetroPD
05-14-2008, 01:34 PM
Nobody ever mentions the fact that the team had a DH that was the real catalyst behind the fast start. The man would change his approach when down in the count, maximize contact, hit behind runners, and could lace singles all over the place to knock in runs.

His value to a balanced offense, one capable of producing runs against many different types of pitcher, was immeasurable.

Apparently the Sox front office digs the long ball. Everett was blasted for ripping the Sox for not keeping the philosophy intact from '05 to '06, and he was spot on.
Carl for all his crazed madness, was a smart man when it came to the game of baseball. We need another leader on this team, its readily apparent that this team does not have anyone even close to that.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/InFALaBill/5073.jpg
"Dinosaurs, Bahhhhh!!! But I know baseball..."

kittle42
05-14-2008, 01:34 PM
Fixed it for ya, gotta hate being corrected by stupid, lazy people.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

santo=dorf
05-14-2008, 01:35 PM
Sounds like JR last year.
Not substituting the best outfielder on the team, even to protect a no hitter.
Putting the worst hitter on the team at leadoff - nice.
LOL. Agreed completely
We must be 18 games out with 19 to go. Season is over. You guys are right...

Oh - wait... Are you serious? We are only two games out and the season is 75% in front of us? Really? Crap - from all the pissing and moaning here, you'd think the season is over.


Well, it must be a complete disaster then - where nobody can do anything right.

Oh - wait...really? Is that true? We have 4 SP with ERAs under 3.75, including one under 2.75?

That must mean our bullpen has sucked - majorly - and can't get anyone out. Are you serious? Really? The four top guys in the pen (Dotel, Linebrink, Boone Logan and Jenks) have all shown various degrees of success? They have 3 losses combined in 80 appearances? Our team ERA in one of the most hitter friendly parks is under 4.00.

For as miserable as these past few weeks have been offensively, the world has yet to come to an end and I see no reason why people would are always so damn negative about everything. Some folks here just seem so miserable about this... I don't get it.
Yawn. We're heard this ****ty song last year.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=88462

How did that work out for you? You think the Sox pitching staff will continue to pitch like this and the other 4 teams in the AL Central will continue to play at the same level?

kittle42
05-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Yawn. We're heard this ****ty song last year.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=88462

How did that work out for you? You think the Sox pitching staff will continue to pitch like this and the other 4 teams in the AL Central will continue to play at the same level?

Exactly.

champagne030
05-14-2008, 01:55 PM
LOL. Agreed completely

Yawn. We're heard this ****ty song last year.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=88462

How did that work out for you? You think the Sox pitching staff will continue to pitch like this and the other 4 teams in the AL Central will continue to play at the same level?

We won the World Series last year in his world.........

doublem23
05-14-2008, 02:02 PM
You're forgetting Rule #1 of WSI: Every coach and figurehead (Ozzie, KW, Walker, Coop) gets credit for 2005, however anything since then is completely not their fault and only the players wrong-doing because they are veteran players.

You're right, none of us have ever said anything nice about any of the guys for their performance in 2005.

:rolleyes:

Generalizations, by definition, are stupid, but when you're throwing around a stupid generalization, you've entered a brave new world world of stupid.

Noneck
05-14-2008, 02:02 PM
LOL. Agreed completely

Yawn. We're heard this ****ty song last year.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=88462

How did that work out for you? You think the Sox pitching staff will continue to pitch like this and the other 4 teams in the AL Central will continue to play at the same level?

Yes, its a song that just keeps playing over and over again, kinda like the TV pbp carnival barker.

SoxyStu
05-14-2008, 02:04 PM
Stu:

Well remember when Hawk was G.M. he had two pitching coaches, one specifically for the bullpen!

Lip

That's right...I did forget that...or rather deeply repressed the Hawk G.M. era.

Taliesinrk
05-14-2008, 02:04 PM
What? Are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

Up yours Jo-Boo..

Taliesinrk
05-14-2008, 02:06 PM
Nobody ever mentions the fact that the team had a DH that was the real catalyst behind the fast start. The man would change his approach when down in the count, maximize contact, hit behind runners, and could lace singles all over the place to knock in runs.

His value to a balanced offense, one capable of producing runs against many different types of pitcher, was immeasurable.

Apparently the Sox front office digs the long ball. Everett was blasted for ripping the Sox for not keeping the philosophy intact from '05 to '06, and he was spot on.

Also spot on is this post. I think that many around here are quick to point out or cirtisize those who make incorrect (negative) comments/predictions about the Sox. Few, however, actually give credit when they are correct... and Carl Everett was right on.

jenn2080
05-14-2008, 02:11 PM
LOL. Agreed completely

Yawn. We're heard this ****ty song last year.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=88462

How did that work out for you? You think the Sox pitching staff will continue to pitch like this and the other 4 teams in the AL Central will continue to play at the same level?


Word. It is almost June. This **** will stil be going on until at least Aug. It is only August. We will snap out of it.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 02:27 PM
Word. It is almost June. This **** will stil be going on until at least Aug. It is only August. We will snap out of it.


Down 2 in June is a bad time to quit. Ask the 07 Rockies (down 7.5). Ask the 05 Astros (down 14). Ask the 04 Cardinas (down 2.5). Ask the 03 Marlins (down 12). Ask the 02 Giants (down 3.5) or the 02 Angels (down 3)....and we can go further back if we need to.

Those are just teams that made the World Series. If we look at teams that made the playoffs, there are TONS of them.

Jenn - You quit on May 15th. That's fine. And you very well may be right. This team may be dead in the water. But don't compare May 15 to August. That's a totally different story. (for that matter, down 2 on August 1 is also a bad time to be quitting...)


Word.

ondafarm
05-14-2008, 02:44 PM
Word. It is almost June. This **** will stil be going on until at least Aug. It is only August. We will snap out of it.

Quit? White-flag it? No, I won't. But that doesn't mean I don't think change is needed either.

kobo
05-14-2008, 03:00 PM
Down 2 in June is a bad time to quit. Ask the 07 Rockies (down 7.5). Ask the 05 Astros (down 14). Ask the 04 Cardinas (down 2.5). Ask the 03 Marlins (down 12). Ask the 02 Giants (down 3.5) or the 02 Angels (down 3)....and we can go further back if we need to.

Those are just teams that made the World Series. If we look at teams that made the playoffs, there are TONS of them.

Jenn - You quit on May 15th. That's fine. And you very well may be right. This team may be dead in the water. But don't compare May 15 to August. That's a totally different story. (for that matter, down 2 on August 1 is also a bad time to be quitting...)


Word.
Why is it always all or nothing with some of you? I'm sorry, but this team is in a huge rut right now, and after spending the last 1 1/2 years watching this same bull**** day in and day out some of us are ****ing tired of it. That doesn't mean we have completely given up, but it's hard to remain positive right now. The fact is the offense sucks once again, and this is the same **** we saw last year and in the 2nd half of 06. You'd think that guys like Cabrera and Swisher wouldn't be affected by what happened last year, but they somehow have caught the bug as well. And that's what is frustrating right now. I hope they can snap out of this and perform better and get somewhat back on track. But I'm tired of waiting and hearing the same stuff as last year. As my Mom would say, it's time to **** or get off the pot.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 03:06 PM
That doesn't mean we have completely given up, but it's hard to remain positive right now.

That's a totally different story than what others are saying. "It is hard to remain positive" is not the same as "this **** will be going on at least until August".

The fact is the offense sucks once again

Well - it didn't the first three weeks of the season. Is it even remotely possible that we play better going forward than we have in the past two weeks? Any chance?


You'd think that guys like Cabrera and Swisher wouldn't be affected by what happened last year, but they somehow have caught the bug as well.

It's a leap of faith that I am not willing to make to call it a "bug" and say that new guys "caught it". They are just not hitting well.

it's time to **** or get off the pot.

May 15th is not the time to get off the pot. Certainly not down 2 games.

jenn2080
05-14-2008, 03:08 PM
Down 2 in June is a bad time to quit. Ask the 07 Rockies (down 7.5). Ask the 05 Astros (down 14). Ask the 04 Cardinas (down 2.5). Ask the 03 Marlins (down 12). Ask the 02 Giants (down 3.5) or the 02 Angels (down 3)....and we can go further back if we need to.

Those are just teams that made the World Series. If we look at teams that made the playoffs, there are TONS of them.

Jenn - You quit on May 15th. That's fine. And you very well may be right. This team may be dead in the water. But don't compare May 15 to August. That's a totally different story. (for that matter, down 2 on August 1 is also a bad time to be quitting...)


Word.


Im not quitting, but I am also not see some of our guys "snapping" out of it. Not saying that Thome, Paulie, and Dye are going to riding this **** average all year, but I do not see them having an awesome year or anything. They were average last year and they are showing signs of being average this year.

FedEx227
05-14-2008, 03:08 PM
You're right, none of us have ever said anything nice about any of the guys for their performance in 2005.

:rolleyes:

Generalizations, by definition, are stupid, but when you're throwing around a stupid generalization, you've entered a brave new world world of stupid.

I'm not making generalizations, I think blame goes to players and coaches. Unfortunately with today's modern contract system sometimes the coaches need to take the fall before the players, it's a harsh reality that some of you seemingly can't grasp.

There is no reason for Greg Walker to still be our hitting coach, if he's with any other organization he's gone after last year, if your entire team slumps you have to be held accountable. THEN, we could have seen what happened this year, if the guys are still slumping then okay, you start working on some player moves because it's finally clear now what the problem is.

That's really not a hard concept to understand guys, it's the business of modern baseball and the White Sox are stuck in 1985.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 03:09 PM
Im not quitting, but I am also not see some of our guys "snapping" out of it. Not saying that Thome, Paulie, and Dye are going to riding this **** average all year, but I do not see them having an awesome year or anything. They were average last year and they are showing signs of being average this year.

If they hit their 3 year averages, we will be just fine...

ShoelessJoeS
05-14-2008, 03:10 PM
Man....too bad the offense blows.

Our pitching staff is really, really good.

santo=dorf
05-14-2008, 03:11 PM
If they hit their 3 year averages, we will be just fine...
You said the same thing last year Mr. I Hate Stats, and it didn't happen.

Just **** already.

Konerko05
05-14-2008, 03:44 PM
I thought it was trying to get greater bat control by shortening your swing and hitting the ball up the middle.

Ok... have it your way.... do you see our hitters shortening up their swings and hitting the ball up the middle? My point still stands.

What do you do when you fire Walker and these guys continue to struggle?


I don't think this is a valid argument. Walker hasn't produced results. At some point he should be held accountable. If our guys still struggle after that, I guess the Sox have a lot of work to do.

kobo
05-14-2008, 04:01 PM
Well - it didn't the first three weeks of the season. Is it even remotely possible that we play better going forward than we have in the past two weeks? Any chance?


Of course there's a chance. There's always a chance.


May 15th is not the time to get off the pot. Certainly not down 2 games.
After 1 1/2 years of the same thing when is it time?

If they hit their 3 year averages, we will be just fine...
If, if, if. Again, same thing we all said last year. It's sickening.

Harry Chappas
05-14-2008, 04:05 PM
Im not quitting, but I am also not see some of our guys "snapping" out of it. Not saying that Thome, Paulie, and Dye are going to riding this **** average all year, but I do not see them having an awesome year or anything. They were average last year and they are showing signs of being average this year.


If only they WERE average. The problem is that, with the exception of Dye, they aren't in the same zipcode as average.

Is it just me, or do the Sox hitters seem to be among the streakiest in all of baseball. Even if some of these guys pull their average up to respectability, we could be buried by then. The only reason we're not already is because the rest of the division started poorly and we've gotten strong pitching.

doublem23
05-14-2008, 04:08 PM
I'm not making generalizations,

You're joking, right? This is exactly what you typed:

You're forgetting Rule #1 of WSI: Every coach and figurehead (Ozzie, KW, Walker, Coop) gets credit for 2005, however anything since then is completely not their fault and only the players wrong-doing because they are veteran players.

generalization, noun, a proposition asserting something to be true of all members of a certain class or an indefinite part of that class.

I think blame goes to players and coaches. Unfortunately with today's modern contract system sometimes the coaches need to take the fall before the players, it's a harsh reality that some of you seemingly can't grasp.

I don't know who you're referring to. I haven't read one post that isn't frustarted with both our coaches and players, but you're right, coaches are easier to jettison than players. Plus, this team could be very competitive if they were even just average offensively. They're terrible, so yeah, that does lay at the feet of Greg Walker, but no one here is delusional enough to believe that a new hitting coach would magically make these guys collectively hit .280. I would just like .250-.260. That's not too much to ask for, is it? The A.L. average is .259... I don't want a miracle, right now, I just want consistency. Or maybe, I would just not like to be embarrassed to watch most of our big bats at the plate right now. Aside from Quentin, Dye, and for the most part, AJ, I don't have any faith in anyone right now.

FedEx227
05-14-2008, 04:18 PM
generalization, noun, a proposition asserting something to be true of all members of a certain class or an indefinite part of that class.


Well then I'm sorry sir.

Next time I'll say...

Rule #1 of approximately 75% of WSI is:

Or I'll just actually count?

Does majority work for you?

Thanks for the heads up.

And to answer your last point I've seen very few people being critical of the coaches outside of the usual bunch (I didn't do an exact count, sorry) that gets berated for saying such.

All I'm seeing for the majority (is that alright?) is "It's fine, we're 2 games out, whatever man we'll be fine, our pitching is good the offense will come around, these are veterans, etc." and it's just sickening. This team is a completely offensive piece of **** right now with no signs of turn around. We got OLD real fast, and guys are continuing to show bad habits. I'm sorry, but a team in the top 10 of payroll should not have this many problems.

doublem23
05-14-2008, 04:20 PM
All I'm seeing for the majority (is that alright?) is "It's fine, we're 2 games out, whatever man we'll be fine, our pitching is good the offense will come around, these are veterans, etc." and it's just sickening. This team is a completely offensive piece of **** right now with no signs of turn around. We got OLD real fast, and guys are continuing to show bad habits. I'm sorry, but a team in the top 10 of payroll should not have this many problems.

:?:

Did you even read this thread? :scratch:

oeo
05-14-2008, 04:22 PM
:?:

Did you even read this thread? :scratch:

Has he read this forum over the past week?

The majority of people are not happy. There are only a select few that think everything is a-okay.

Frankie5Angels
05-14-2008, 04:23 PM
Put CQ at Leadoff, Swisher 2nd, Dye 3rd, AJ 4th, Crede 5th, PK 6th, Thome 7th, OC 8th and Uribe 9th. Try that for a game and see what happens. What do we have to lose, It can't be any worse than what we have been seeing.

Konerko05
05-14-2008, 04:28 PM
Put CQ at Leadoff, Swisher 2nd, Dye 3rd, AJ 4th, Crede 5th, PK 6th, Thome 7th, OC 8th and Uribe 9th. Try that for a game and see what happens. What do we have to lose, It can't be any worse than what we have been seeing.

As I just stated in another thread, why put our most productive player in the leadoff spot? Quentin is leading the league in homeruns, and has the highest OPS on the team by a large margin. Quentin should be batting in the 3 spot.

PorkChopExpress
05-14-2008, 04:30 PM
As I just stated in another thread, why put our most productive player in the leadoff spot? Quentin is leading the league in homeruns, and has the highest OPS on the team by a large margin. Quentin should be batting in the 3 spot.

I'll take a crack at this.

Swisher
AJ
Quentin
Dye
Konerko
Thome
Crede
Uribe
Cabrera

FedEx227
05-14-2008, 04:31 PM
As I just stated in another thread, why put our most productive player in the leadoff spot? Quentin is leading the league in homeruns, and has the highest OPS on the team by a large margin. Quentin should be batting in the 3 spot.

I'd say throw him in the 3 or 5 spot as well.

Maybe do a:

Swisher
Cabrera
Dye
Quentin
Konerko
Thome
AJ
Crede
Uribe

Lip Man 1
05-14-2008, 04:31 PM
It is also a possibility, along with the hitters snapping out of things, that the past year and a half are now the "norm" for some of the guys and that they may not get much better. They may in fact, have begun the slide downwards into their careers.

This is in reference to Jab's comment on the three year averages.

I don't know what's going to happen but I assume the chances of hitters snapping out of a year and a half funk are greater if they are 28 then 34.

Lip

oeo
05-14-2008, 04:33 PM
I'd say throw him in the 3 or 5 spot as well.

Maybe do a:

Swisher
Cabrera
Dye
Quentin
Konerko
Thome
AJ
Crede
Uribe

I even hop AJ up two spots. Quentin, Dye, and AJ are our three best hitters right now...they should be batting 3-4-5. Maybe pushing Paulie and Thome down will take some pressure off, and they will start producing.

It's Dankerific
05-14-2008, 04:34 PM
We must be 18 games out with 19 to go. Season is over. You guys are right...

Oh - wait... Are you serious? We are only two games out and the season is 75% in front of us? Really? Crap - from all the pissing and moaning here, you'd think the season is over.


Well, it must be a complete disaster then - where nobody can do anything right.

Oh - wait...really? Is that true? We have 4 SP with ERAs under 3.75, including one under 2.75?

That must mean our bullpen has sucked - majorly - and can't get anyone out. Are you serious? Really? The four top guys in the pen (Dotel, Linebrink, Boone Logan and Jenks) have all shown various degrees of success? They have 3 losses combined in 80 appearances? Our team ERA in one of the most hitter friendly parks is under 4.00.

For as miserable as these past few weeks have been offensively, the world has yet to come to an end and I see no reason why people would are always so damn negative about everything. Some folks here just seem so miserable about this... I don't get it.


I assume you mostly cut and pasted from some 2007 posts there? Its early, thats when its possible to CHANGE things. Or, we can sit on our hands and watch another craptacular season.

LoveYourSuit
05-14-2008, 04:35 PM
I did not post last night because I had so much anger in me that I might have been banned from not only this site but the entire internet.

That said, if we don't see a major shake up with this line up tonight then it all means that management just doesn't give a **** about anything.

These games cause more damage to my liver than alcahol, I am not going to let the Sox ruin my happiness. If they don't care then let's all not care about them either. And if Ozzie, Kenny, Hawk, the fans dare bitch one more time about the lack of coverage on this team, then shame on all of them also and each one of them should be punched in the mouth.


Everyone grow up. Hit the ****ing ball and win a ****ing game. Plain and Simple.

:angry::angry::angry:

thomas35forever
05-14-2008, 04:36 PM
Here's how I'd do it:

Cabrera
Swisher
Quentin
Dye
Thome
Konerko
Pierzynski
Crede
Uribe

Paulie's number six because of his hand.

JB98
05-14-2008, 04:38 PM
I'd try this:

Cabrera
Quentin
Pierzynski
Dye
Thome
Crede
Konerko
Swisher
Uribe

FedEx227
05-14-2008, 05:01 PM
I even hop AJ up two spots. Quentin, Dye, and AJ are our three best hitters right now...they should be batting 3-4-5. Maybe pushing Paulie and Thome down will take some pressure off, and they will start producing.

I would definitely be fine with that as well, to hell with Paulie and Thome and their established spots, gotta go with our bats that are producing IMO.

It's Dankerific
05-14-2008, 05:04 PM
I would definitely be fine with that as well, to hell with Paulie and Thome and their established spots, gotta go with our bats that are producing IMO.

At least Paulie established himself HERE with the WHITESOX. I don't give two ****s about what Thome has done with other teams.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 05:30 PM
Of course there's a chance. There's always a chance.

Then why would people propose dumping the players that we need to perform to get there?


After 1 1/2 years of the same thing when is it time?

It was time last august. It very well may be time again this august. But May, is not the time. The season is about 6 weeks old, not 1.5 years old.


If, if, if. Again, same thing we all said last year. It's sickening.

And in May, IF made sense. By August, we were toast. But why give up in May of 2008 just because we tried in May of 2007 and it didn't work?

I just don't get the surrender here...it's freaking May 14th and we are 2 fricking games out of first place for frigging sake?

fquaye149
05-14-2008, 05:33 PM
BA should be pitching.

It's Dankerific
05-14-2008, 05:35 PM
And in May, IF made sense. By August, we were toast. But why give up in May of 2008 just because we tried in May of 2007 and it didn't work?

I just don't get the surrender here...it's freaking May 14th and we are 2 fricking games out of first place for frigging sake?

There is a difference between giving up on the team and giving up on :

Thome in the 3 hole
PK not resting his hand or whatever his problem is
Not playing our best defensive CF when everyone else is hitting like crap (can't blame his lack of "offense" then)
etc.

Giving up on the modus operandi of this no hitting lineup does NOT mean giving up on the White Sox and wanting them to change while there is still time is being a good fan too. (Not just hoping and praying everything will fix itself because of the "great management team" we have in place). Pretty soon, our rolling 3 year average win-loss percentage is going to be ****.

DickAllen72
05-14-2008, 05:38 PM
Care to speculate what they could do?

As long as the "changes" don't involve Ozuna or Ramirez starting and leading off, I'm not sure what they can do.

It's getting to the point where they should just put Swisher back to 1, and tell him he's staying there.

I'd just go Swisher, Cabrera, Quentin, Dye, Pierzynski, Konerko, Thome, Crede, Uribe
I'd go:

Cabrera
Quentin
Dye
Crede
Pierzynski
Uribe
Konerko
Thome
Swisher

jabrch
05-14-2008, 05:41 PM
Has he read this forum over the past week?

The majority of people are not happy. There are only a select few that think everything is a-okay.

I haven't even seen anyone say things are "a-okay"...

I'm just not ready to curl up in a ball and cry, run away, dump the team, fire everyone, trade our veteran proven players or bitch until my aorta explodes when we are...

...2 games out of first place...

...on May 14th

That's anyone's choice to do it...but it makes little sense to me. I'll play no part in that game. I'll root for my team who is...

...2 games out of first place...

...and hope for the best. When they are out of it - and we know they are toast, then I'll hope we dump players. Heck - I was one of the few who wanted to unload Buehrle to Boston before we resigned him and build for the future. I'll be happy to bail once we are out of it.

But on May 14th, when we are...

...2 games out of first place...

... I am not going to quit on this team.

Call me an optimist - but I see no reason despite the craptacular play, to quit yet.

jabrch
05-14-2008, 05:42 PM
It is also a possibility, along with the hitters snapping out of things, that the past year and a half are now the "norm" for some of the guys and that they may not get much better. They may in fact, have begun the slide downwards into their careers.

This is in reference to Jab's comment on the three year averages.

I don't know what's going to happen but I assume the chances of hitters snapping out of a year and a half funk are greater if they are 28 then 34.

Lip

That's true Lip - there is certainly a possibility of that. But right now, it makes no sense to just fold it up, dump vets for nothing, and start playing the kids. Not now.

In August - down 12 games - that's a whole different story.

But today, aren't we committed to going down this road, like it or not?

DickAllen72
05-14-2008, 05:43 PM
Jim Thome Against Relief Pitching Update:

4-41 (.098), with 20 K's
That says it all.

DickAllen72
05-14-2008, 05:46 PM
Nobody ever mentions the fact that the team had a DH that was the real catalyst behind the fast start. The man would change his approach when down in the count, maximize contact, hit behind runners, and could lace singles all over the place to knock in runs.

His value to a balanced offense, one capable of producing runs against many different types of pitcher, was immeasurable.

Apparently the Sox front office digs the long ball. Everett was blasted for ripping the Sox for not keeping the philosophy intact from '05 to '06, and he was spot on.
Quoted for truth! :thumbsup:

DickAllen72
05-14-2008, 05:48 PM
Carl for all his crazed madness, was a smart man when it came to the game of baseball. We need another leader on this team, its readily apparent that this team does not have anyone even close to that.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/InFALaBill/5073.jpg
"Dinosaurs, Bahhhhh!!! But I know baseball..."


More truth. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Noneck
05-14-2008, 06:22 PM
I read this "2 games out of 1st place" crap written like a child, multiple times in large bold font and I realize how very short sighted some are.

I don't see anyone giving up. People want changes. Putting a Thome down in lineup or platooning him is not giving up, putting PK on the DL is not giving up, getting rid of Walker is not giving up, getting Anderson more playing time is not giving up, playing Ramirez at 2nd or SS is not giving up, bringing up Owens is not giving up, moving Dye to left is not giving up, constantly rearranging a lineup until you find one that works is not giving up.


These are called adjustments in order to win. You can't wait too long to adjust or it is too late. And the same old **** isn't working now and didn't before so adjustments have to be made now.

doublem23
05-14-2008, 06:32 PM
Pining for Carl Everett? A guy who didn't play last year and had a robust .227/.297/.360 his last year?

Awesome.

fquaye149
05-14-2008, 06:36 PM
Pining for Carl Everett? A guy who didn't play last year and had a robust .227/.297/.360 his last year?

Awesome.

I miss Crazy Carl more than anyone else from 05. Am I not man?

fquaye149
05-14-2008, 06:37 PM
I read this "2 games out of 1st place" crap written like a child, multiple times in large bold font and I realize how very short sighted some are.

I don't see anyone giving up. People want changes. Putting a Thome down in lineup or platooning him is not giving up, putting PK on the DL is not giving up, getting rid of Walker is not giving up, getting Anderson more playing time is not giving up, playing Ramirez at 2nd or SS is not giving up, bringing up Owens is not giving up, moving Dye to left is not giving up, constantly rearranging a lineup until you find one that works is not giving up.


These are called adjustments in order to win. You can't wait too long to adjust or it is too late. And the same old **** isn't working now and didn't before so adjustments have to be made now.

:rolling:

so true!!!

DickAllen72
05-14-2008, 06:41 PM
Pining for Carl Everett? A guy who didn't play last year and had a robust .227/.297/.360 his last year?

Awesome.
I'd take the 2005 Everett over the 2008 Thome for sure.

I'd take the 1972 Dick Allen over anybody on the Sox in recent history.

Right now, I'd take the 2008 Brian Anderson in CF with the 2008 Dye moving to DH over the 2008 Thome. Heck, at this point I'd take Alexie Ramirez at DH over Thome--at least the kid would get his needed ABs and it would keep Thome from getting enough PAs for his 2009 option to kick in!

DickAllen72
05-14-2008, 06:43 PM
I miss Crazy Carl more than anyone else from 05. Am I not man?
Carl was cool and he used to kill the Twins.

A. Cavatica
05-14-2008, 08:22 PM
Is that Rob Mackowiak?

:rolling:

I know the going's tough right now, everyone, but let's not be crazy. He was terrible.

He's not a great defensive 2B, but he's adequate, and he's a much better hitter than Uribe. And KW did give him away. But yes, I stuck him in there to see if you were paying attention (couldn't find the D'Angelo tag).

santo=dorf
05-14-2008, 08:35 PM
Mackowiak never played second for the Sox.
Carl was cool and he used to kill the Twins.
Define "kill."
Difficulty: No "Chris Farley Show" like selective memories to prove your case.

fquaye149
05-14-2008, 08:41 PM
Mackowiak never played second for the Sox.

Define "kill."
Difficulty: No "Chris Farley Show" like selective memories to prove your case.

Given what I saw you try to pull in a certain Burly thread, you're one to talk:wink:

jabrch
05-14-2008, 08:46 PM
I don't see anyone giving up.

Then we read some of this very differently - which is your choice. But it is a statement of fact that we are only 2 games behind - and that all is not hopeless.

Your choice for how you choose to look at it.