PDA

View Full Version : *OFFICIAL: Yikes! 5/12/08 Postgame Thread*


WhiteSox5187
05-13-2008, 12:15 AM
I'm shocked that after a couple of minutes this the first one...anyways, yea, tonight was bad. As bad as we looked (on just about every front) we still somehow managed to get the tying run to the plate. Let's go out and get 'em tommorrow.

FedEx227
05-13-2008, 12:18 AM
All I know is, when they finally get out of this 2 and a half year funk... teams are going to PAY!

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2008, 12:18 AM
Well, we did not tip our hat to the opposing pitcher tonight.

That's a start.

Should we get the milk cartons for Buehrle and Thome?

"Have you seen me?"

Stringer
05-13-2008, 12:18 AM
Both teams played hard

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2008, 12:20 AM
And on the post game show they're taking calls about JD pinch hitting for Thome...isn't there enough in THIS game to complain about?

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2008, 12:20 AM
All I know is, when they finally get out of this 2 and a half year funk... teams are going to PAY!

:rolling:


Hawk was at it again tonight,

What a PR machine.

He can sell a bald man hair spray, that's how good he is.

Lip Man 1
05-13-2008, 12:21 AM
Bill Melton brought up an excellent point on the postgame show. Bill said that in the past when the Sox made a mental or physical mistake behind Mark he'd be able to pitch out of it and get out of the inning.

Tonight Bill said Mark is no longer doing that.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2008, 12:23 AM
Bill Melton brought up an excellent point on the postgame show. Bill said that in the past when the Sox made a mental or physical mistake behind Mark he'd be able to pitch out of it and get out of the inning.

Tonight Bill said Mark is no longer doing that.

Lip


Wow, they are paying Bill 6 figures for this great insight?

Thanks Bill, we did not notice this.

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2008, 12:25 AM
Bill Melton brought up an excellent point on the postgame show. Bill said that in the past when the Sox made a mental or physical mistake behind Mark he'd be able to pitch out of it and get out of the inning.

Tonight Bill said Mark is no longer doing that.

Lip
Rongey just said that Buerhle has said that those things are starting to get to him a bit more this year and he doesn't know why...that's all mental stuff and a LOT harder to fix (obviously). But I can't help but wonder if the horror of last year (the bullpen being unable to hold onto a single lead and any field featuring both Luis Terrero and Andy Gonzalez) isn't having a sort of post-tramatic stress disorder thing on Buerhle. Hopefully he can turn it around.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2008, 12:29 AM
Rongey just said that Buerhle has said that those things are starting to get to him a bit more this year and he doesn't know why...that's all mental stuff and a LOT harder to fix (obviously). But I can't help but wonder if the horror of last year (the bullpen being unable to hold onto a single lead and any field featuring both Luis Terrero and Andy Gonzalez) isn't having a sort of post-tramatic stress disorder thing on Buerhle. Hopefully he can turn it around.


Wow, not the make-up you want from your "ACE."


I hope he snaps out of it.

SoxSpeed22
05-13-2008, 12:29 AM
Simply put, you can't make those kind of mistakes against a very good team like the Angels. It's only one game.

Stringer
05-13-2008, 12:35 AM
Did receiving his Golden Glove do something to OC because we was stinking it up.

SMH

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2008, 12:35 AM
Wow, not the make-up you want from your "ACE."


I hope he snaps out of it.
I'm not sure what it is...but it's not like this is the norm for Buerhle. He had a really good year on a real bad team last year (so that won't show up in the win-loss column, but his WHIP and ERA were good). I wouldn't be shocked if he turns it around, but this is getting to be unnerving. I'm not sure what he needs to do exactly.

TDog
05-13-2008, 01:01 AM
With bad teams with players that don't care, or with pitchers who put their stats first, I sometimes get the idea that unearned runs don't matter to them. There are pitchers who are losers who put up good stats, just as there are hitters who are losers who look good on paper and Royce Clayton wasn't alone in looking like a great shortstop to people who didn't see him play.

Tonight, when Buehrle was knocked out, again, as he did in his loss in Toronto, let a two-out, none-on error lead open the door to multiple runs. Tonight, however, the runs given up by the bullpen were unearned for the team but earned for the bullpen. That is, the team stats will show the Sox gave up 6 earned runs by the starter, but Wasserman's individual stats will show he gave up two earned runs. And I'm sure he cares that his ERA again is over 30.

I don't believe the Sox don't have a bad team, and I don't believe Buehrle is just another in the line of players whose production decreases after signing a big contract.

kittle42
05-13-2008, 01:32 AM
Eh, around .500 - it's what I expected.

MUsoxfan
05-13-2008, 03:19 AM
Buehrle needs to be better. I don't expect him to be unhittable, but a WHIP around 1.00 would be nice

ZombieRob
05-13-2008, 03:52 AM
IMO this whole team from management down is underachieving. I just don't see an end to it. Expecting a 60 yr old man and 2 young kids to carry the load and pressure is asking alot. The clogs in the middle seem to be getting worse. and the B.P still needs some work.

alohafri
05-13-2008, 05:23 AM
:rolling:


Hawk was at it again tonight,

What a PR machine.

He can sell a bald man hair spray, that's how good he is.

I was happy when the sound went down. Is anyone else getting tired of him sounding like the lemmings at the Shrine? "Come on, stretch!" on a fly ball that doesn't even reach the warning track? Someone get this guy some glasses!

santo=dorf
05-13-2008, 06:13 AM
Bill Melton brought up an excellent point on the postgame show. Bill said that in the past when the Sox made a mental or physical mistake behind Mark he'd be able to pitch out of it and get out of the inning.

Tonight Bill said Mark is no longer doing that.

Lip
Actually I think the opposite. Look at the number of unearned runs Buehrle has given up in his career. Some aren't his fault like Jimenez dropping an infield popup with the bases loaded and 2 out, but there have been numerous times when the flood gates were opened after an error. One mother's day he was able to pitch around 7 unearned runs in the first (probably because the Sox didn't want to go to their pen so early.)

Speaking of unearned runs, I see Josh Fields' glove gave up the the difference in score AGAIN. When are we going to send him down to work on his skills or move him to 1B or DH? We should've never let Crede go to the Giants!!!:angry:

wealz07
05-13-2008, 06:18 AM
The distressing part is that Buehrle has lost some velocity (year 1 of a 4 year deal too). Throwing 85-86 instead of 87-88.

Elephant
05-13-2008, 06:32 AM
Buehrle needs to be better. I don't expect him to be unhittable, but a WHIP around 1.00 would be nice

That is about "unhittable" for a starter.

soxfanatlanta
05-13-2008, 07:14 AM
Speaking of unearned runs, I see Josh Fields' glove gave up the the difference in score AGAIN. When are we going to send him down to work on his skills or move him to 1B or DH? We should've never let Crede go to the Giants!!!:angry:

:?:

alohafri
05-13-2008, 07:28 AM
:?:

Crede is fielding so much like Josh, we must have traded Joe to the Giants.

cws05champ
05-13-2008, 08:18 AM
That was an awful game to stay up late for!! My eyes hurt this morning. How can you lose to a team that is featuring Quinlan, Sean Rodriguez and a rookie making his first start at 3B in the infield? They looked better than our IF.

Hawk: " If you are just joinging us, the Sox gave the Angels 8 GIFT RUNS".

Uhhh, hawk I know we made some errors but I think the LA hitters had a little something to do with driving in all those runs. I know there has been a whole thread on Hawk, but has he gotten worse this year? I really am tiring of him. Tell it like it is...The defense let the team down and Buehrle is not able to stop the bleeding this year.

The positives, JD, AJ and Swish got some knocks, Dotel & Thornton were solid...we got the tying run to the plate in the 9th. That's about it.

voodoochile
05-13-2008, 08:21 AM
Bill Melton brought up an excellent point on the postgame show. Bill said that in the past when the Sox made a mental or physical mistake behind Mark he'd be able to pitch out of it and get out of the inning.

Tonight Bill said Mark is no longer doing that.

Lip

Yep. I noticed this early in the season. He needs to step up and pitch like the ace he is being paid as.

October26
05-13-2008, 08:24 AM
The thing that got me about last night's game was the Buehrle was behind in the count on almost every hitter. 3-1, 2-1, 3-2 were typical counts. Mark Buehrle needs to pitch ahead in the count in order to be successful. It looked to me like the Anaheim hitters were sitting back and just waiting for a pitch to hit. Ugh! I woke up with a headache, burning eyes from lack of sleep and the reality that it is only Tuesday and I have to go to work. I hate when the Sox play on the west coast!

Jimmy Piersall
05-13-2008, 08:24 AM
Uribe & Cabrera stunk in the field but right now Buehrle stinks bad.We al worried about Grandpa Contreras and the Danks/Floyd combo holding
their own but our top guy has an ERA approaching 6...fix this **** now.

alohafri
05-13-2008, 08:41 AM
Hawk: " If you are just joinging us, the Sox gave the Angels 8 GIFT RUNS".

Uhhh, hawk I know we made some errors but I think the LA hitters had a little something to do with driving in all those runs. I know there has been a whole thread on Hawk, but has he gotten worse this year? I really am tiring of him. Tell it like it is...The defense let the team down and Buehrle is not able to stop the bleeding this year.

.

It is times like this I long for the Harry Caray of the mid 70s!

Jerko
05-13-2008, 08:45 AM
I was shocked to see only 1 error on the board for the Sox. Could have easily been 4. Between that, DP derby, and the "black hole" going 0-8, we're lucky to have stayed within 3 runs.

russ99
05-13-2008, 09:03 AM
The distressing part is that Buehrle has lost some velocity (year 1 of a 4 year deal too). Throwing 85-86 instead of 87-88.

Velocity loss is marginal for a pitcher like Mark. He's never burned fastballs past guys, he's a finesse pitcher. His problem is he's leaving his breaking pitches and his former out pitch, the cutter, out over the plate.

That pitch to Guerrero was simply awful. Why not giftwrap it for him, Mark?

santo=dorf
05-13-2008, 09:04 AM
:?:
All off season long I was told we can't trade Crede to the Giants because Fields' defense is so bad it will give up runs, and the only think he's good for is home runs and a low batting average. Looking at the results of our third baseman this year, it's evident it's Josh Fields dressing up in a Joe Crede uniform.
7HR, 7 errors.

palehozenychicty
05-13-2008, 09:05 AM
Anaheim is usually a dead zone, so I'm not that surprised. We did pull out some wins in '05 and '06. But you know..

Frater Perdurabo
05-13-2008, 09:07 AM
Velocity loss is marginal for a pitcher like Mark. He's never burned fastballs past guys, he's a finesse pitcher. His problem is he's leaving his breaking pitches and his former out pitch, the cutter, out over the plate.

Yes. But last year he was flirting with 89-91, particularly during his no-hitter. That added velocity, coupled with his control, made him more successful.

southsideirish71
05-13-2008, 10:36 AM
Yes. But last year he was flirting with 89-91, particularly during his no-hitter. That added velocity, coupled with his control, made him more successful.

When Buerhle is on, he drives his cutter in on the hands of righties, and then goes away with his change as the outpitch.

When Buerhle is in serve them up mode, he rarely goes in, and is away away away. This allows the hitters to extend and drive the ball.

Its more about how he pitches, and his location than his velocity. I have seen him dominate a team with an 86-87 mph fastball and break bats left and right. I have also seen him throw 89-90 and get destroyed.

For Mark to be successful he needs to get in on the hands of righties, and keep them from extending their hands. The minute he starts with away away away, they get comfortable, and then drive the ball.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-13-2008, 10:37 AM
It was a tough loss but I give the offense credit for making a run towards the end. Last year this team would have given up.

If there is one thing I can say is that I'm glad AJ is on our team. The way he avoided that tag last night has to be giving Angels fans fits. (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200805122689877) Great move by AJ.

Now it's time to focus on tonight's game and get a winning streak going.

soltrain21
05-13-2008, 10:47 AM
It was a tough loss but I give the offense credit for making a run towards the end. Last year this team would have given up.



But a moral victory is still a loss. I think this is what we are going to see all year, and we end up with a .500 record.

Swisher better pick things up, I hated him when he was on Oakland, but warmed up to him this year. My feelings are starting to become lukewarm now.

alohafri
05-13-2008, 10:53 AM
Anaheim is usually a dead zone, so I'm not that surprised. We did pull out some wins in '05 and '06. But you know..

What have you done for me lately. I'm glad 2005 happened, but I'd like another championship.

Chicken Dinner
05-13-2008, 11:38 AM
That HR pitch to Vlad was meat!

hawkjt
05-13-2008, 11:58 AM
I thought MB should have worked around Vlade...load up the bases for the double play rather than let him beat you..but no..had to give him that meatball instead.. Next guy hit a double play ball.

I did see MB hit 91 mph on one pitch..I was surprised.

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2008, 12:46 PM
I thought MB should have worked around Vlade...load up the bases for the double play rather than let him beat you..but no..had to give him that meatball instead.. Next guy hit a double play ball.

I did see MB hit 91 mph on one pitch..I was surprised.
AJ has been saying that Buerhle's velocity has been up this year and he wonders if that is maybe why Buerhle is struggling.

chisoxfanatic
05-13-2008, 01:03 PM
Not getting any runs in a bases-loaded situation in the 6th inning after giving up 4 runs the previous inning was the telling moment of the game for me. You have to make a team pay when they're looking sloppy, which the Angels looked that inning. O-Cab REALLY needs to get it going offensively.

DickAllen72
05-13-2008, 03:22 PM
It was a tough loss but I give the offense credit for making a run towards the end. Last year this team would have given up.

If there is one thing I can say is that I'm glad AJ is on our team. The way he avoided that tag last night has to be giving Angels fans fits. (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200805122689877) Great move by AJ.

Now it's time to focus on tonight's game and get a winning streak going.
AJ is a "winner." He does things that do not show up in the stats to win ball games or at least give his team a better shot at winning.

kittle42
05-13-2008, 03:23 PM
AJ is a "winner." He does things that do not show up in the stats to win ball games or at least give his team a better shot at winning.

Is that like a "grinder?"

DickAllen72
05-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Is that like a "grinder?"
Yes, as a matter of fact it is.

A lot of people around here have given a negative connotation to that term. But a "grinder" is someone who comes to play every day and busts his ass giving every effort to win. He does the little things that winning ballplayers do day in and day out. The opposite of a guy who just swings for the fences and dogs it in the field or on the basepaths.

The problem with a lot of stat heads or some Sox related internet message board posters is that they equate guys with no baseball skills (Andy Gonzalez, e.g.) or washed up injured players (Pods, Erstad) as being the definition of "grinder."

AJ is a grinder in the true, positive sense of the word. The man plays baseball well and hard.

FedEx227
05-13-2008, 03:47 PM
Yes, as a matter of fact it is.

A lot of people around here have given a negative connotation to that term. But a "grinder" is someone who comes to play every day and busts his ass giving every effort to win. He does the little things that winning ballplayers do day in and day out. The opposite of a guy who just swings for the fences and dogs it in the field or on the basepaths.

The problem with a lot of stat heads or some Sox related internet message board posters is that they equate guys with no baseball skills (Andy Gonzalez, e.g.) or washed up injured players (Pods, Erstad) as being the definition of "grinder."

AJ is a grinder in the true, positive sense of the word. The man plays baseball well and hard.

The anti-grinder crew (of which I'm a full card-carrying member) doesn't drop grinder on any player until someone else does, that's all I've ever done. Once people here or KW start calling them grinders then it's free game.

AJ isn't a grinder though, he's a smart baseball player with a lot of skill.

kittle42
05-13-2008, 03:51 PM
AJ isn't a grinder though, he's a smart baseball player with a lot of skill.

Agreed.

Grinders are kinda like guys who generally are average to below average, but slap hit, bunt, hustle, whatever - but guys whose deficiencies are more than made up for by the better players on the team.

turners56
05-13-2008, 04:27 PM
Juan Uribe's inability to get the ball out of the glove really cost the team last night. And If it wasn't for that dreaded error by Crede in the 6th and those row of hits the Angels put up after, this game would of been a lot closer. Buehrle pitched like crap, he didn't have the control whatsoever and lost it all in the middle innings.

I liked what I saw from the bottom of the order, but the top of the lineup was atrocious. Cabrera left so many on base, including the time where it was 6-4 in the 6th with the bases juiced and 2 out. He was set down on 3 pitches, just 3. I really liked the way Crede and Uribe hit the ball, they didn't get solid hits, but they were those little bloopers or seeing-eye grounders the Twins hit off of us, I thought it was good to see us do that for once.

Plus, the magic show by Pierzynski at second was hilarious, he made Erick Aybar look so stupid TWICE. Angels fans must hate him even more now.

turners56
05-13-2008, 04:30 PM
I thought MB should have worked around Vlade...load up the bases for the double play rather than let him beat you..but no..had to give him that meatball instead.. Next guy hit a double play ball.

I did see MB hit 91 mph on one pitch..I was surprised.

I was thinking about that too. I thought walking him wouldn't be the worst idea. Especially because Hunter looked bad up there the first time and ended up grounding out anyhow.

About Buehrle's velocity, I think he's over-throwing. When he's on he throws 87-89, that's where he thrives. When he over-throws or doesn't have velocity at all, that's when he starts getting hit hard or walking guys. Buehrle was pretty erratic last night if you ask me.