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Mohoney
05-11-2008, 07:42 AM
Would anyone be willing to send Alexei Ramirez to AAA to get regular at bats and add Ray King to the bullpen, once King gets about 2 weeks of regular work in at Charlotte?

He's a solid veteran LOOGY that, along with Boone Logan, can really play into Ozzie's preference for playing lefty-lefty matchups. With Linebrink and Jenks solidified as the 8th and 9th inning guys, we would then have 3 leftys and 3 rightys to cover the rest of the ground. Masset is the long man and gets a few short outings here and there to keep from getting rusty, Thornton and Dotel get the bulk of the work in close ballgames, and King, Logan, and Wasserman are used as one or two out specialists.

We can save mileage on Floyd and Danks by going this way, and I would like to see anything feasible be done to keep those guys successful, since so much depends on them. If the pitch count is piling up after 5 innings, we can let them leave with a lead and not have to worry too much.

Scottiehaswheels
05-11-2008, 07:54 AM
I'm all for sending Ramirez down but right now I think we have a plethora of BP not getting much work every night... If they start to struggle I might be leaning towards bringing up another arm but right now I'd personally rather have a another position player up in Ramirez's place if he is sent down.

Mohoney
05-11-2008, 08:05 AM
I'm all for sending Ramirez down but right now I think we have a plethora of BP not getting much work every night... If they start to struggle I might be leaning towards bringing up another arm but right now I'd personally rather have a another position player up in Ramirez's place if he is sent down.

Did you have a specific player or position in mind?

Scottiehaswheels
05-11-2008, 08:07 AM
Did you have a specific player or position in mind?Honestly I'm not sure who. I'd prefer to have someone that can handle the infield as I think our outfield is fine with the 4 we have up now. Could Getz cover SS as well as 2B? Maybe Bourgeouis, he's certainly talented enough to cover multiple positions.

Mohoney
05-11-2008, 08:16 AM
Honestly I'm not sure who. I'd prefer to have someone that can handle the infield as I think our outfield is fine with the 4 we have up now. Could Getz cover SS as well as 2B?

So we're both ruling out superfluous 25th man candidates like a 3rd C or a 5th OF. Your preference would be a 7th IF over an 8th RP, and preferably one that can play in the middle infield.

I would venture to say that, even with a few guys in the bullpen not getting in all that often (which you are correct on, BTW), an 8th RP would see more action than a 7th IF unless the IF was a true backup 1B like we had with Ross Gload.

I think Ozzie is going to play the hell out of Cabrera and Uribe, and on the rare occasions when they're not in there, Pablo Ozuna will get that time to get him some needed at bats. A guy like Gets would practically collect cobwebs.

voodoochile
05-11-2008, 08:40 AM
So we're both ruling out superfluous 25th man candidates like a 3rd C or a 5th OF. Your preference would be a 7th IF over an 8th RP, and preferably one that can play in the middle infield.

I would venture to say that, even with a few guys in the bullpen not getting in all that often (which you are correct on, BTW), an 8th RP would see more action than a 7th IF unless the IF was a true backup 1B like we had with Ross Gload.

I think Ozzie is going to play the hell out of Cabrera and Uribe, and on the rare occasions when they're not in there, Pablo Ozuna will get that time to get him some needed at bats. A guy like Gets would practically collect cobwebs.

Who are the 7? If Ramirez gets sent down the Sox have one player who can backup 2nd, SS and 3rd - Pablo Ozuna. That makes PH real tough because like backup C you'd need to hold on to him in case of emergency. Before I'd have 8 RP or really even 7, I'd like to see another bat on the bench.

With thornton and Dotel settling down, the main relief pattern is established. Logan does the Loogy thing and Masset stays where he is. One more guy sitting on his ass in the bullpen does the team no good at all.

Tragg
05-11-2008, 08:55 AM
"Solid" is awfully generous to describe King. He's had 1 good year this century and a couple of so-so ones. Can he absorb an inning or so every other day - sure, but so can plenty of pitchers.
Boone Logan has had 1 bad outing this season and his role has been expanded from that of a situational left.

Mohoney
05-11-2008, 09:23 AM
Who are the 7? If Ramirez gets sent down the Sox have one player who can backup 2nd, SS and 3rd - Pablo Ozuna.

He was talking about bringing up Getz to replace Ramirez. Getz would be the 7th guy. I'm technically calling Thome a 1B, but if something were to happen to Konerko, I would assume that Swisher would be the 1B and another OF would be brought in. If there was a real emergency, or if we were playing interleague and didn't want Thome sitting for a whole week, Thome could hypothetically play a bit at 1B.

As for pinch hitting, how often do we pinch hit anyway? I'm guessing not much, and I can't recall Cabrera or Uribe being lifted for a pinch hitter at all.

Ozzie was a SS, and thus far, he has shown a great reluctance to sacrifice defense for offense in the IF. Barring injury, I don't think even Ozuna will play all that much, and I still think that another lefty in the pen fits Ozzie's style of managing (I've seen him use 3 or even 4 pitchers in an inning quite a few times) more than a 2nd backup IF that won't ever play.

Mohoney
05-11-2008, 09:37 AM
"Solid" is awfully generous to describe King. He's had 1 good year this century and a couple of so-so ones. Can he absorb an inning or so every other day - sure, but so can plenty of pitchers.
Boone Logan has had 1 bad outing this season and his role has been expanded from that of a situational left.

LHB facing Ray King in his career:
AVG is .214, OBP is .284, SLG is .314

That's pretty solid for a lefty specialist, which is all I was lobbying for him to be, and I never complained at all about what Boone Logan has done this year.

kittle42
05-11-2008, 11:46 AM
LHB facing Ray King in his career:
AVG is .214, OBP is .284, SLG is .314

LBS is 320.

California Sox
05-11-2008, 11:54 AM
Wow. I never thought I'd live to see the 13 man pitching staff. I'm not in favor of Alexei riding the pine in the majors. It's a decision that is indefensible, but 13 pitchers and a DH (Thome) who can't really play a position? That's three bench players a back-up catcher, a 4th outfielder, and Ozuna. I don't think you can do that. If we feel like we need another lefty then send Wasserman down or trade Masset, but I can't go there.

I say send down Ramirez and bring up Bourgeois who can play some second, some OF and pinch run.

jabrch
05-11-2008, 11:57 AM
With interleague play quickly approaching, I'd rather keep Alexi for a bit longer...

turners56
05-11-2008, 11:59 AM
Why do we need bullpen help again? Thornton, Dotel, Linebrink, and Jenks are doing fine.

Mohoney
05-11-2008, 12:03 PM
LBS is 320.

The concept of a fat guy having success at the major league level is not unheard of. Ray King has had success at the major league level.

For the record, I'm just offering a suggestion for a stopgap 25th man so Alexei Ramirez can get regular work in at Charlotte. I'm not trying to paint Ray King out to be some kind of savior. In fact, the bullpen has done the job for the most part.

JB98
05-11-2008, 12:08 PM
So we're both ruling out superfluous 25th man candidates like a 3rd C or a 5th OF. Your preference would be a 7th IF over an 8th RP, and preferably one that can play in the middle infield.

I would venture to say that, even with a few guys in the bullpen not getting in all that often (which you are correct on, BTW), an 8th RP would see more action than a 7th IF unless the IF was a true backup 1B like we had with Ross Gload.

I think Ozzie is going to play the hell out of Cabrera and Uribe, and on the rare occasions when they're not in there, Pablo Ozuna will get that time to get him some needed at bats. A guy like Gets would practically collect cobwebs.


I would rather have a guy like Getz collecting cobwebs than Ramirez. I think Ramirez needs to play in Charlotte. The Sox organization needs to find out whether he can replace Cabrera at SS next year.

Really, does anyone on Ozzie's bench ever collect cobwebs? Our manager does a pretty good job of getting everyone playing time. In fact, WSI posters have often complained about his "Sunday lineups."

champagne030
05-11-2008, 12:16 PM
I would rather have a guy like Getz collecting cobwebs than Ramirez. I think Ramirez needs to play in Charlotte. The Sox organization needs to find out whether he can replace Cabrera at SS next year.

Really, does anyone on Ozzie's bench ever collect cobwebs? Our manager does a pretty good job of getting everyone playing time. In fact, WSI posters have often complained about his "Sunday lineups."

As, oeo, pointed out in another thread, he's managing different this season. He's not playing the "Sunday lineup" twice a week. I think Tubby has only played one game where it wasn't a day game following a night game deal and BA, Alexei, and Paco have rode the pine for long stretches. This isn't like past seasons with a Timo getting 250 AB's.

santo=dorf
05-11-2008, 12:18 PM
Really, does anyone on Ozzie's bench ever collect cobwebs? Our manager does a pretty good job of getting everyone playing time. In fact, WSI posters have often complained about his "Sunday lineups."
So playing the same group of scrubs or rookies once a week is doing a good job of getting everyone playing time?

Lefty34
05-11-2008, 04:51 PM
LHB facing Ray King in his career:
AVG is .214, OBP is .284, SLG is .314

That's pretty solid for a lefty specialist, which is all I was lobbying for him to be, and I never complained at all about what Boone Logan has done this year.

First of all, those are career numbers for a pitcher who is now 34, so how about we confine ourselves to his last couple of years. With his last 3 teams for who King pitched 20+ innings, he had ERA+ of 93 (2007), 89 (2007) and 111 (2006). He performed below the league average for both of his 2007 teams, and in 2006 while pitching for the Rockies he had a WHIP of 1.701. And, since 2003, his DERA has been higher than his NRA by a considerable amount for 5 of the 7 teams he has played for, making it safer to assume that the more acceptable aspects of King's numbers are products of him playing in front of a good defense.

Please, can we dispense with the need for "veteran leadership" maxim for awhile? Most of the guys flagged as "veterans" and "veteran leaders" turn out to suck (I recently read a thread where David Wells was deemed an acceptable acquisition because he is a "veteran"). Where is young talent going to come from if people keep bottling it up in the minors while older, fatter, equally-sub-par pitchers continue to get multi-million dollar contracts?

y2j2785
05-12-2008, 11:34 AM
I didnt see this posted but the sox did sign him. Per Rotoworld:

White Sox signed LHP Ray King to a minor league contract and assigned him to Triple-A Charlotte.

russ99
05-12-2008, 11:42 AM
The only way I send down Alexei at this point is if we can bring up an experienced major league pinch hitter, as that's the only thing our bench is lacking. The problem is that few of those guys are infielders, and we have too many outfielders already to need another one.

Nice under the radar pickup by Kenny, but I think the guys we have here now are doing the job good enough. If Thornton or Logan falter, King's a decent enough insurance policy.

KingXerxes
05-12-2008, 12:13 PM
I would bring King up if it meant Wasserman was out.

kittle42
05-12-2008, 12:51 PM
I would bring King up if it meant Wasserman was out.

Hey, remember a few weeks ago when Wasserman was some folks' answer to all the bullpen woes? I hope people stop equating minor league performance to major league results.

Ray King has sucked for years, by the way. But if he causes less food to be available for my own consumption in the city of Chicago, I shall welcome him with open arms.

PaleHoser
05-12-2008, 01:11 PM
Ray King? What, Felix Heredia wasn't available? :scratch:

The only way I want to see him at a Sox game is if he buys a ticket.

Regarding Ramirez, it's obvious he can't hit major league breaking stuff. He needs to be sent down.

ChiTownTrojan
05-12-2008, 01:53 PM
Send Ramirez down, bring up Fields. I want Crede's back to get plenty of rest as the season wears on. And Fields can serve as the big RH pinch-hit threat that we need, as well as getting some starts at DH against tough lefties. He's the only guy down at Charlotte that can add anything to this team.

PorkChopExpress
05-12-2008, 02:37 PM
Send Ramirez down, bring up Fields. I want Crede's back to get plenty of rest as the season wears on. And Fields can serve as the big RH pinch-hit threat that we need, as well as getting some starts at DH against tough lefties. He's the only guy down at Charlotte that can add anything to this team.

I believe Fields is on the DL right now.

jcw218
05-12-2008, 03:59 PM
Send Ramirez down, bring up Fields. I want Crede's back to get plenty of rest as the season wears on. And Fields can serve as the big RH pinch-hit threat that we need, as well as getting some starts at DH against tough lefties. He's the only guy down at Charlotte that can add anything to this team.

I believe Fields is on the DL right now.

Yes, Josh Fields is currently on th DL

TomBradley72
05-12-2008, 05:22 PM
King's not a bad "spare part" to have at AAA...if Logan or Thornton go down he may be able to give us 4-6 weeks of decent help. But a proactive strategy to add him to the major league roster doesn't make sense.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-12-2008, 05:34 PM
Unless Ray King has found the fountain of youth I would want nothing to do with him on the Sox. He has the potential to be the left-handed version of Mike Jackson.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-27-2008, 03:34 PM
Well we won't have to worry about King on the Sox, as it looks like he was released and is no longer on Charlotte's roster. Instead, Scott Sauerbeck is on there...

turners56
05-27-2008, 03:39 PM
Well we won't have to worry about King on the Sox, as it looks like he was released and is no longer on Charlotte's roster. Instead, Scott Sauerbeck is on there...

One journeyman replacing another. Ah, that's Minor League Baseball alright.