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tick53
05-10-2008, 12:12 PM
Time to grade ol' Dirty 30. Give Nick his first quarter mark

palehozenychicty
05-10-2008, 12:16 PM
I want to see the batting average come up, and I think he's played well in CF, but he's worn down from playing there every day. His start was great, though, so a shift down the batting order will help him.

TomBradley72
05-10-2008, 12:39 PM
I gave him a D.

But asking him to lead off and play CF puts him in a tough position. Since he's not a lead off hitter and he's not a CF.

Maybe his best role is as a "super sub"....playing five times/week giving each OF a day off, as well as PK and Thome (against LHs).

doublem23
05-10-2008, 12:48 PM
I think it's difficult to really judge him since he's been playing out of position, both in the field and in the order so far this season.

QCIASOXFAN
05-10-2008, 12:51 PM
D+.

Lukin13
05-10-2008, 12:58 PM
The others before me have hit it on the head.

He is the best leadoff hitter we have, but that does not mean you will get the most production out of him at leadoff.

He is not a good center fielder.

I personally have always been a fan of guys that have such high OBP... turn half of Swisher's walks into base hits and most years he would be an MVP canidate.

I hope he turns it around quickly... I have confidence in him.

JUribe1989
05-10-2008, 12:59 PM
He's been an utter dissapointment and really a waste of a spot in the order. I had to give him an F. I really feel BA should continue to threaten his playing time with such a great glove as long as he's hitting about .260.

I really hope he gets better soon.

TDog
05-10-2008, 01:10 PM
The way he is playing, there seems no place for Nick Swisher on the White Sox. There is no place for him in the lineup. His talent is getting on base, and he isn't doing that often enough to lead off. He hasn't driven in runs when he's had the opportunity. In 20 at bats with runners in scoring position, he has two hits for a batting average of .100. In eight other plate appearances with runners in scoring position, he has walked. Carlos Quentin is hitting .346 in 26 hits with runners in scoring position. Jermaine Dye, for all the criticism he has taken, is hitting .308 in 26 at bats with runners in scoring position. Even Brian Anderson has had 13 at bats with runners in scoring position -- 14 if you include the failed squeeze -- and has three hits.

The White Sox are a better team defensively when Nick Swisher is not in the game. They have a weaker leadoff hitter, but they have more speed in the lineup and play better defensively. At the plate, Paul Konerko and Jim Thome have outperformed him, as you might expect, so there shouldn't be a question of Swisher moving to DH or first base.

Swisher has played like a younger, injury-free 2007 Darin Erstad.

This doesn't mean Swisher can't improve. But right now the Sox look better with Swisher on the bench.

TomBradley72
05-10-2008, 01:21 PM
The way he is playing, there seems no place for Nick Swisher on the White Sox. There is no place for him in the lineup. His talent is getting on base, and he isn't doing that often enough to lead off. He hasn't driven in runs when he's had the opportunity. In 20 at bats with runners in scoring position, he has two hits for a batting average of .100. In eight other plate appearances with runners in scoring position, he has walked. Carlos Quentin is hitting .346 in 26 hits with runners in scoring position. Jermaine Dye, for all the criticism he has taken, is hitting .308 in 26 at bats with runners in scoring position. Even Brian Anderson has had 13 at bats with runners in scoring position -- 14 if you include the failed squeeze -- and has three hits.

The White Sox are a better team defensively when Nick Swisher is not in the game. They have a weaker leadoff hitter, but they have more speed in the lineup and play better defensively. At the plate, Paul Konerko and Jim Thome have outperformed him, as you might expect, so there shouldn't be a question of Swisher moving to DH or first base.

Swisher has played like a younger, injury-free 2007 Darin Erstad.

This doesn't mean Swisher can't improve. But right now the Sox look better with Swisher on the bench.

I agree with your post. But I still think there's plenty of playing time available for him. He can sub for PK/Dye/Quentin/Anderson against tough RHs. He can sub for Thome against tough LHs (or indirectly by giving Dye, PK or Quentin a day to DH). Keeps some of our veterans fresh over the long season, gives us a little more speed when they're sitting, and provides depth against injuries.

Cuck the Fubs
05-10-2008, 01:27 PM
He's been asked to do some things he's not done before, which keeps the grade from being an F in my book.

Again, his 1st quarter grade is a D.....he does bring good stuff to the clubhouse which does add something.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-10-2008, 01:28 PM
The problem with Swisher is he is playing out of position in the field and in the lineup. He is a corner outfielder and a fifth or sixth place hitter. Plus, he is being asked to be the sparkplug of the team. All those things really have to weigh on him.

The best thing is to take some of the pressure off him and move him down in the lineup. And let him rotate in the field to give some guys off, like Dye, Konerko, and Thome. Put Swisher at DH when there's a lefty on the mound, or put Dye in at DH and put Swisher in right.

He's playing so far below his career averages, that you know there must be some external factors at play here.

Tragg
05-10-2008, 01:35 PM
His talent is getting on base, and he isn't doing that often enough to lead off..
On this team, he is doing that enough - his replacement is far less capable.
But he isn't ideal and he's hitting well below his potential.
He has power, too. He could be a fine left fielder who could bat 6th or so.
We need to give Dye and Konerko and Thome rest; use Anderson more in CF and move Swisher around.

russ99
05-10-2008, 01:42 PM
First off, Nick's done better than we ever expected on defense in center field this year. For that alone, I can't grade him lower than C

Also, despite his bad overall average and recent slump (moving him out of the leadoff spot may have done more damage than good) he's done a great job of working the count, drawing walks and getting on base.

His value in the clubhouse is immeasurable, especially considering he's still doing it when other players would clam up and fold under such a slump.

Hopefully these 2 days off will get him back in the right mindset and we can expect a return to his numbers from last season.

If we had a leadoff hitter, Nick could bat 3rd (especially vs. lefties) which is his best spot to hit from in the lineup. Maybe Kenny makes a few deals to get us one...

soxfan21
05-10-2008, 08:50 PM
I'd give him a C so far. Except for the first week of the season he really hasn't impressed me. I am happy with the energy that he brings to the clubhouse each and everyday, but wish that he could get his bat going a little bit, and also wish that he could get a better jump on the ball sometimes. I am sure that once his bat gets going again he will be fine.

WhiteSox5187
05-11-2008, 02:18 AM
This is tricky for me because I really like Swish, but right now he's mired in a miserable slump and it's not like he's not hitting, he's not even getting on (he is only a career .250 hitter), but he's been asked to do a lot of things he hasn't done before, so I don't begrudge him of that. Hopefully he can turn it around, other wise he should probably be a super-sub to spell guys awhile until he DOES turn it around.

TDog
05-11-2008, 03:07 AM
This is tricky for me because I really like Swish, but right now he's mired in a miserable slump and it's not like he's not hitting, he's not even getting on (he is only a career .250 hitter), but he's been asked to do a lot of things he hasn't done before, so I don't begrudge him of that. Hopefully he can turn it around, other wise he should probably be a super-sub to spell guys awhile until he DOES turn it around.

I like everyone who plays for the Sox. I like Juan Uribe -- substantially less that I like Joe Crede or Carlos Quentin, of course.

What I don't understand is why so many White Sox fans really like Nick Swisher. He has done so little in a White Sox uniform. When I was watching him play for the A's last year, he would have ranked somewhere in triple digits among people I would want to see playing for the Sox. Maybe the day off did him some good. I hope it did. Realistically, he has played poorly enough to have lost his role as a starter on this team.

IlliniSox4Life
05-11-2008, 03:26 AM
Swisher has had an awful 2 weeks or so, but before that he got on base like crazy.

I think if he starts hitting better or walking more (as well as Cabrera), I'd be fine with either of them leading off and the other one batting 6th.

Lefty34
05-11-2008, 03:38 AM
I would just like to preface this by saying that I freely admit that Swisher is most definitely struggling and is not producing like anyone would want. However, I would just like to highlight some inconsistencies in some of the arguments against Swisher:

The way he is playing, there seems no place for Nick Swisher on the White Sox. There is no place for him in the lineup. His talent is getting on base, and he isn't doing that often enough to lead off. He hasn't driven in runs when he's had the opportunity. In 20 at bats with runners in scoring position, he has two hits for a batting average of .100. In eight other plate appearances with runners in scoring position, he has walked. Carlos Quentin is hitting .346 in 26 hits with runners in scoring position. Jermaine Dye, for all the criticism he has taken, is hitting .308 in 26 at bats with runners in scoring position. Even Brian Anderson has had 13 at bats with runners in scoring position -- 14 if you include the failed squeeze -- and has three hits.



Those are extremely small sample-sizes.

Although, Swisher has not AVGed as well as some might want, however he has a career OBP of .361 with RISP and .372 with men on, which isn't exactly setting the world on fire, but it is not horrible either.

Hopefully these days off will help him, but the idea that people getting on base rather than "hitting" in situations with men on is a little bit shortsighted.

Overall I would be fine with giving Swisher a C- or a D+

Nellie_Fox
05-11-2008, 03:43 AM
I'm not normally a big "intangibles" guy, but I think Swisher brings that to the Sox. He's a guy who can help keep the team loose. There were no "fun" guys on the team last year; the leaders were all very stoic personalities. Swisher's a goof ball, and I think that's a good thing.

oeo
05-11-2008, 04:20 AM
He's been an utter dissapointment and really a waste of a spot in the order. I had to give him an F. I really feel BA should continue to threaten his playing time with such a great glove as long as he's hitting about .260.

I really hope he gets better soon.

I really hope this was supposed to be in teal. Come talk to me when BA has a track record. Swish will be fine.

TDog
05-11-2008, 01:54 PM
I would just like to preface this by saying that I freely admit that Swisher is most definitely struggling and is not producing like anyone would want. However, I would just like to highlight some inconsistencies in some of the arguments against Swisher:



Those are extremely small sample-sizes.

Although, Swisher has not AVGed as well as some might want, however he has a career OBP of .361 with RISP and .372 with men on, which isn't exactly setting the world on fire, but it is not horrible either. ...

I know it's a small sample this year, but Nick Swisher hasn't come through this year and wasn't a big-hit guy when he played for Oakland. He was a favorite whipping boy on local talk radio.

On-base percentage with runners in scoring position is less important than RBIs with runners in scoring position. I am impressed that last night when he came up with a man on third and two out he didn't walk. He would have helped the team more by giving Joe Crede a chance to drive in the run instead of ending the inning, but at least he swung the bat.

Paul Konerko should have hit the fly ball to get the run home. And that would have hurt his on-base percentage with runners in scoring position as much as his strikeout did.

turners56
05-11-2008, 02:01 PM
He gets a C for what he did earlier in the year. He still has a .350 OBP, so it's not all bad.

chisoxmike
05-11-2008, 11:35 PM
D

It's Time
05-11-2008, 11:47 PM
That snickering we are hearing?
v
v
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070103/070103_beane_vmed_4p.widec.jpg

voodoochile
05-12-2008, 12:02 AM
That snickering we are hearing?
v
v
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070103/070103_beane_vmed_4p.widec.jpg

Why exactly would he be laughing? I mean what did he get back that is looking so amazing?

Cuck the Fubs
05-12-2008, 12:05 AM
Why exactly would he be laughing? I mean what did he get back that is looking so amazing?

He got nothing to snicker over that's for sure...........Swish has hit a bump in the road.

I say review this issue at the all star break.

He'll be fine......May 11th is for to early to get geeked up or down about any team or player just yet.

It's Time
05-12-2008, 12:09 AM
Voodoo,

Who??

Gio is someone I would have like to kept. He led the Minor leagues in K's. We also gave up De Los Santos.

And Sweeney may or may not amount to anything. That said, to give up three very young prospects for what Swish has done thus far is not sitting well.

WhiteSox5187
05-12-2008, 12:11 AM
Why exactly would he be laughing? I mean what did he get back that is looking so amazing?
Kenny sent him a real funny email at the time of the trade and whenever he sees Swish on the TV Beane can't help but think of that email.


I really hope that Swish can turn it around here, but like I said, so far I'm very disappointed in him. He seems like a great guy, but he can't (hasn't is the better word perhaps) produced.

It's Time
05-12-2008, 12:18 AM
Granted, the prospects given up have not done much yet in the minors for Oakland. However, they are very young. At this point, I expected Swisher to be hitting .290 with at least 20 RBI.

This is not what KW was expecting from Swisher, that I am sure of.

Yes, it's early but he has been slumping for a solid 3 weeks now. He needs to turn it on.

rdwj
05-12-2008, 08:27 AM
C+. We owe much of our hot start to Swish. He's cooled off quite a bit lately, but not enough to say his overall performance is below C level. I fully expect him to turn it on and pull that grade WAY up very soon.

soxrme
05-12-2008, 11:31 AM
D

balke
05-12-2008, 12:04 PM
As an optimist and supporter, I still have to give him a D- or F. He's not very clutch with what little hitting he has, and at some points I'd rather see BA out there on certain days.

I do think he'll rebound, but with 129 at-bats so far this is a pretty crap performance so far from Swish.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-12-2008, 12:29 PM
I gave him a D now but I think he'll improve this upcoming semester. However Nick has shown that he plays well with others.

ondafarm
05-12-2008, 12:30 PM
Keep in mind, Swish never played a lot of CF before this season. In Oakland he played LF, RF and 1B.

kaufsox
05-12-2008, 12:38 PM
C at the moment but angling down. He still has a high OBP and he was playing CF which isn't his best position. More importantly, he was leading off and he had NEVER done that at any level, kind of a lot to expect from the guy.

Sad
05-12-2008, 12:56 PM
D for disappointing...

TDog
05-12-2008, 01:03 PM
Keep in mind, Swish never played a lot of CF before this season. In Oakland he played LF, RF and 1B.

Swisher played center against the Sox in Oakland and in Chicago last year. He played 59 games in center for the A's after playing only a couple of major league games in center before that. He played 57 in right and 44 at first with six more games at DH. In 2006, his outfield play was almost exclusively in left. In 2005 he was the regular rightfielder. With Mark Kotsay last year being limited to just 56 games, Swisher was the closest the A's had to a regular centerfielder.

FedEx227
05-12-2008, 01:07 PM
Swisher played center against the Sox in Oakland and in Chicago last year. He played 59 games in center for the A's after playing only a couple of major league games in center before that. He played 57 in right and 44 at first with six more games at DH. In 2006, his outfield play was almost exclusively in left. In 2005 he was the regular rightfielder. With Mark Kotsay last year being limited to just 56 games, Swisher was the closest the A's had to a regular centerfielder.

Not to mention his primary college position at Ohio State was CF.

KingXerxes
05-12-2008, 01:09 PM
C- to D+.

Not a bad OBP, but certainly not a great one - and he has been forced to play out of position.

He seems consumed with his facial hair and "having fun". While this all plays well when you're winning, I do wish at times that he would just be quiet and play baseball.

The Comcast segments with him in the dugout with a microphone are an F-.

MushMouth
05-12-2008, 01:21 PM
Maybe I expected more, maybe hitting and fielding in "new" spots has affected his game, but pretty disappointed so far.

I thought the walks and high OBP would eventually be buttressed by some hits, but he's just not swinging the bat well. Hope he can grind a few extra hits a week out the rest of the year.

ondafarm
05-12-2008, 01:24 PM
Swisher played center against the Sox in Oakland and in Chicago last year. He played 59 games in center for the A's after playing only a couple of major league games in center before that. He played 57 in right and 44 at first with six more games at DH. In 2006, his outfield play was almost exclusively in left. In 2005 he was the regular rightfielder. With Mark Kotsay last year being limited to just 56 games, Swisher was the closest the A's had to a regular centerfielder.

I was in the Bay Area for parts of two seasons but was here (Chicagoland) for 2007. Kotsay being out would put him in CF. Apologies, I should have qualified my statement.

ondafarm
05-12-2008, 01:27 PM
Not to mention his primary college position at Ohio State was CF.

College ball and professional ball are two different animals. In college you are in college. (Obvious, but not, hope my meaning is clear.) In the pros, even minors, you are playing guys who aren't studying for a biochemistry exam, or even a "rocks for jocks" exam. Everybody is working full-time (or should be) on playing baseball. In college, guys with greater baseball ability or greater baseball experience, like Swish, get to play.