PDA

View Full Version : This is the slowest White Sox team in a loooooong time.


It's Time
05-08-2008, 11:31 AM
This team is on pace to steal less then 45 bases. They have 8 swipes so far this year and really have no one that is a threat.

The lack of offensive balance on this club is astounding. It's like watching a softball team.

This, above all else, is the reason this team is going to struggle all year scoring runs.

doublem23
05-08-2008, 11:33 AM
This, above all else, is the reason this team is going to struggle all year scoring runs.

Probably has nothing to do with the team BA that's under .200 for the last week.

SoxGirl4Life
05-08-2008, 11:35 AM
Why am I having deja vu with this thread???

Optipessimism
05-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Probably has nothing to do with the team BA that's under .200 for the last week.
Game, set, match. This thread is ovah!

Thome25
05-08-2008, 11:48 AM
Probably has nothing to do with the team BA that's under .200 for the last week.

Sure it does. When there's baserunners that are a threat to steal it puts the opposing pitcher in a different mindset and makes him go against his gameplan.

I.E. The pitcher will throw strikes rather than junk.

That in itself could make batting averages go up.

nevr say dye sox
05-08-2008, 11:52 AM
We need a Reggie Willits type of player. Anaheim doesn't even play this guy and he could be had very easy. Put him in Center mover Swish to right, Put Dye in DH and put Thome on the bench.

Craig Grebeck
05-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Sure it does. When there's baserunners that are a threat to steal it puts the opposing pitcher in a different mindset and makes him go against his gameplan.

I.E. The pitcher will throw strikes rather than junk.

That in itself could make batting averages go up.
And that difference is tiny.

Thome25
05-08-2008, 12:03 PM
And that difference is tiny.

Well we know that having a team full of slow, plodding, station to station, hr hitting sluggers doesn't work......so why not play some good fundamental baseball (which includes hitting home runs AND stealing bases.)

Or we could go with the alternative......the same alternative we did in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008.

ondafarm
05-08-2008, 12:04 PM
And that difference is tiny.

Totally disagree with that. My batting average with men on was over .300, with nobody on under .200. I had the advantage of hitting with two guys who could steal a base ahead of me and they'd really make my day by taking off during running counts, which almost always guarenteed a nice fat high fastball to me. That I didn't hit it all the time is an indictment of my hitting.

spiffie
05-08-2008, 12:11 PM
Totally disagree with that. My batting average with men on was over .300, with nobody on under .200. I had the advantage of hitting with two guys who could steal a base ahead of me and they'd really make my day by taking off during running counts, which almost always guarenteed a nice fat high fastball to me. That I didn't hit it all the time is an indictment of my hitting.
You are one example. Over thousands of guys the difference in performance with a slow plodding guy on vs. a big stolen base threat hasn't borne out to be all that much. Most everyone does better with a man or men on base, but who that man hasn't proven to be much difference in the long run.

Lip Man 1
05-08-2008, 12:55 PM
It also matters in another way... overall team speed doesn't just manifest itself with stolen bases or changing the opposing pitchers "philosophy", it matters when trying to score runs.

How many times have we seen the Sox have to get three hits in a inning to score a run? or have guys not be able to score from second on a hit? or from first on a drive into the gap??

And the way these guys are hitting it's difficult to see them be able to put three, four, five hits together to score multiple runs.

Having guys who can run means you may not have to have as many hits in an inning to get guys home.

Lip

doublem23
05-08-2008, 12:58 PM
This is such ridiculous nonsense. The offens just totally sucks right now, regardless of what style of play they've employed. If the Sox had a bunch of speedy runts out there, everyone would be bitching we don't have any big bats in the middle to help get that "big inning."

They just ****ing suck right now, everyone.

spiffie
05-08-2008, 01:04 PM
It also matters in another way... overall team speed doesn't just manifest itself with stolen bases or changing the opposing pitchers "philosophy", it matters when trying to score runs.

How many times have we seen the Sox have to get three hits in a inning to score a run? or have guys not be able to score from second on a hit? or from first on a drive into the gap??

And the way these guys are hitting it's difficult to see them be able to put three, four, five hits together to score multiple runs.

Having guys who can run means you may not have to have as many hits in an inning to get guys home.

Lip
This is both true and pointless. If the Sox were playing guys with no speed over equally talented guys with speed this might be something to discuss. But right now there is no one in the wings (outside of Richar who hopefully will get the 2B spot back when healthy) who brings both speed and anything close to equal overall ability to the person they would be replacing. Of course we all wish we had a team that wasn't so damn plodding. But right now its simply talking about what we'd love on a team, rather than reasonable alternatives. And no, Jerry Owens for Nick Swisher or Carlos Quentin isn't a reasonable alternative.

TDog
05-08-2008, 02:13 PM
.... And no, Jerry Owens for Nick Swisher or Carlos Quentin isn't a reasonable alternative.

For that matter, Brian Anderson for Nick Swisher isn't a reasonable alternative, although I would like to see Swisher sit for a couple of days.

Anderson, Orlando Cabrera, Alexi Ramirez and Pablo Ozuna represent the speed on the team. Only one of them is generally in the game at any given time. At least two of them can't hit anyway.

If all of them were starting, Anderson in center and the others on the infield, you wouldn't see many stolen bases because they wouldn't be getting on base much.

RockyMtnSoxFan
05-08-2008, 08:26 PM
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Thome and Quentin were tearing up the base paths today with that double steal.

Seriously, though, I think that a lineup of either pure speedsters or pure sluggers will not be successful. You need a mix in order to have a dangerous offense. In 2005, the offense wasn't exactly Murderers' Row, but they had the threat of speed and power. Also, the Angels have been fairly successful despite ranking in the bottom third of the majors in HRs, because they have guys that can run and are good at stringing together multiple hits.

Also, it's more fun to watch when there is a speed element. Home runs are impressive, but there is less drama.

soxwon
05-08-2008, 09:47 PM
You can take your time running after hitting homers.

Lip Man 1
05-08-2008, 10:44 PM
Rocky:

Correct. You are looking for balance, someway to score runs when you aren't hitting that solo home run.

Lip

kitekrazy
05-08-2008, 11:24 PM
It also matters in another way... overall team speed doesn't just manifest itself with stolen bases or changing the opposing pitchers "philosophy", it matters when trying to score runs.

How many times have we seen the Sox have to get three hits in a inning to score a run? or have guys not be able to score from second on a hit? or from first on a drive into the gap??

And the way these guys are hitting it's difficult to see them be able to put three, four, five hits together to score multiple runs.

Having guys who can run means you may not have to have as many hits in an inning to get guys home.

Lip

Excellent observation. Slow guys can also kill a rally.

voodoochile
05-08-2008, 11:39 PM
Well we know that having a team full of slow, plodding, station to station, hr hitting sluggers doesn't work......so why not play some good fundamental baseball (which includes hitting home runs AND stealing bases.)

Or we could go with the alternative......the same alternative we did in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008.

Just so long as the pitchers keep pitching like it's 2005, sol good.

Craig Grebeck
05-09-2008, 12:00 AM
Excellent observation. Slow guys can also kill a rally.
What about the quick guys who can't hit? What do they contribute to rallies?

TomBradley72
05-09-2008, 03:03 AM
This team is on pace to steal less then 45 bases. They have 8 swipes so far this year and really have no one that is a threat.

The lack of offensive balance on this club is astounding. It's like watching a softball team.

This, above all else, is the reason this team is going to struggle all year scoring runs.

Correct.

If you look at our last few wins (Baltimore, two games vs. Twins this week)..in each case we had a lot of movement on the bases (taking the extra base, stolen base, etc.)...we're a better offense and actually put pressure on the other team when that's our game plan. It's just not easy to do every day when your lineup is full of clydesdales.

Nice add on run in today's game...Ramirez steals second..Quentin knocks him in for the 4th run. Having a few speed guys (usually from SS, 2B or CF) can put alot of additional pressure on the opposition and help you generate a run or to when you're slumping or the other pitcher is completely on his game.

It's not a debate about speed vs. hitting/power...it's about having a more diversified offense which helps you smooth out the slumps a little.

jabrch
05-09-2008, 03:37 AM
We need a Reggie Willits type of player. Anaheim doesn't even play this guy and he could be had very easy. Put him in Center mover Swish to right, Put Dye in DH and put Thome on the bench.

That's completely ****ing ridiculous.

jabrch
05-09-2008, 03:38 AM
Well we know that having a team full of slow, plodding, station to station, hr hitting sluggers doesn't work

Only when they aren't hitting or slugging

The Dude
05-09-2008, 07:19 AM
This team is on pace to steal less then 45 bases. They have 8 swipes so far this year and really have no one that is a threat.

The lack of offensive balance on this club is astounding. It's like watching a softball team.

This, above all else, is the reason this team is going to struggle all year scoring runs.

So what do you plan for your encore thread? Is it going to be, "This team has too many 30 year + players, and that's why we have a losing record!":rolleyes: It's Time for you to sit back, relax and strap it down on the unnecessary thread starting. :gulp:

MISoxfan
05-09-2008, 04:38 PM
Who are these speedy teams that never slump that everyone wants to be like?

NoNeckEra
05-09-2008, 05:26 PM
So what do you plan for your encore thread? Is it going to be, "This team has too many 30 year + players, and that's why we have a losing record!":rolleyes: It's Time for you to sit back, relax and strap it down on the unnecessary thread starting. :gulp:
What's this forum for, if not for valid discussions about the teams proficiencies and deficiencies? No, team speed is not the only reason they're in an offensive slump, but it's magnified when you don't score ANY runs.

And while I'm at it, much as I love the guy, Thome is killing this team in the three hole.

TomBradley72
05-09-2008, 05:32 PM
And while I'm at it, much as I love the guy, Thome is killing this team in the three hole.

Especially against lefties:

Jim Thome against lefties = a pitcher hitting.

Thome's 2007 OPS vs. LHs: .663 (.196 BA)

D. Willis: .856
A. Wainwright: .710
B. Penny: .618
Zambrano: .593
Tim Hudson: .594

Believe It!
05-09-2008, 05:37 PM
We need a Reggie Willits type of player. Anaheim doesn't even play this guy and he could be had very easy. Put him in Center mover Swish to right, Put Dye in DH and put Thome on the bench.
:rolleyes: Thats the last thing we need is another Of'er

ArkanSox
05-10-2008, 02:39 AM
Yeah, I was watching The Red Sox earlier 2nite--man, they can run. I think they've stolen 27 straight. With the '05 team we had guys (Podsedniks, and I miss Gooch) who could disrupt things. This year we're going to have to blast our way to wins. I miss Pods, the tension and excitement, but w/our starting pitching and our team's potential to play defense, we may be able to get it done. I think BA needs to start in center and to mature into the multi-talented player that we know he can be--sorry to some, and I actually haven't been in this dogfight b4. From what I've seen so far, I'm not all that sure that Uribe shouldn't still be playing short, but slack to Cabrera in his adjustment--he's an All-star and I like his attitude. We have the talent, now let's show the swagger. Sorry, I couldn't resist, but seriously, let's win this thing. We're off to a fairly good start--let's roll.

Yep, I had 2 :gulp:

Lip Man 1
05-10-2008, 01:19 PM
Arkan:

Pods was the running catalyst but the Sox also had five other guys who had double figures in stolen bases that season.

Lip

kitekrazy
05-10-2008, 01:27 PM
What about the quick guys who can't hit? What do they contribute to rallies?

They have a better chance of getting on base from an error or dropped 3rd strike. They can also pitch run. This is something guys like PK can't do.

Nellie_Fox
05-10-2008, 05:49 PM
They can also pitch run. It's "pinch run."