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nevr say dye sox
05-07-2008, 09:33 AM
If I were Ozzie last night I would have Floyd walk Mauer and hope for the double play ballto record the no hitter. Any reason why he would have faced Mauer who kills us anyways. Especially after he was already 0 for 2 you just knew he was going to get a hit. Anybody else think of this when Mauer came to the plate?

doublem23
05-07-2008, 09:35 AM
Why give the Twins free baserunners? It's the 9th, your up by 6, potential no-hitter or not, I wouldn't give them runners for free, make them earn it (which, they had not done all day yesterday).

nevr say dye sox
05-07-2008, 09:43 AM
I just thought a win and a no hitter would have really exicited this team and give Gavin a huge boost of confidence, and it would have been a easier way to have done it. Rolling the dice against Mauer who was already 0 for 2 in the bottom of the 9th with a no no on the line, I bet Mauer every time against anybody. There was all ready one out and I knew once a hiut was given up Jenks was coming in because he hasn't pitched for a while. So in my mind I give up 1 maybe 2 runs to make it easier for Floyd to get his no no.

SoxGirl4Life
05-07-2008, 09:48 AM
I think getting a win for this team with no further drama was the most important thing last night. A no-no would have been nice, but the win is above that.

regionsox73
05-07-2008, 09:56 AM
If I were Ozzie last night I would have Floyd walk Mauer and hope for the double play ballto record the no hitter. Any reason why he would have faced Mauer who kills us anyways. Especially after he was already 0 for 2 you just knew he was going to get a hit. Anybody else think of this when Mauer came to the plate?

I forgot the count... But I remember looking at my gamecast I had on with the game and saw who followed Mauer. I thought "unintentional, intentional walk"?

regionsox73
05-07-2008, 09:57 AM
I think getting a win for this team with no further drama was the most important thing last night. A no-no would have been nice, but the win is above that.

Would it be a no-no since they did score a run? Technically speaking I am not sure.

soxfan13
05-07-2008, 10:07 AM
No hits is no hits. Pitchers have pitched no hitters and lost.:o:

doublem23
05-07-2008, 10:14 AM
Would it be a no-no since they did score a run? Technically speaking I am not sure.

Yes. A no-hitter is defined as pitching at least a complete 9 innnig game and not allowing a hit during the game.

Gavin would have been credited with a no-hitter last night. Had the game gone to extra innings, and he gave up his first hit in the 10th inning, it would not be considered a no-hitter. Likewise, Andy Hawkins did not technically get a no-hitter in his 4-0 loss to the White Sox because, as the road team, he was only able to pitch 8 innings before the end of the game.

hi im skot
05-07-2008, 10:23 AM
If I were Ozzie last night I would have Floyd walk Mauer and hope for the double play ballto record the no hitter. Any reason why he would have faced Mauer who kills us anyways. Especially after he was already 0 for 2 you just knew he was going to get a hit. Anybody else think of this when Mauer came to the plate?

You're crazy.

spawn
05-07-2008, 10:26 AM
If I were Ozzie last night I would have Floyd walk Mauer and hope for the double play ballto record the no hitter. Any reason why he would have faced Mauer who kills us anyways. Especially after he was already 0 for 2 you just knew he was going to get a hit. Anybody else think of this when Mauer came to the plate?
Mauer was 0-1 with 2 walks. And even if he does walk him, Morneau was the next batter. With a 6 run lead, giving out free passes is ridiculous.

Believe It!
05-07-2008, 10:30 AM
If I were Ozzie last night I would have Floyd walk Mauer and hope for the double play ballto record the no hitter. Any reason why he would have faced Mauer who kills us anyways. Especially after he was already 0 for 2 you just knew he was going to get a hit. Anybody else think of this when Mauer came to the plate?
In the midst of a 6-game losing streak, you do not give a team you have a lead over, insurmountable or not, any chance to get back into a game. No-hitter or not. Had Ozzie done that, he should be fired on the spot.

Law11
05-07-2008, 10:44 AM
I told my wife if it was gonna end it was with Mauer. 0-2 with 2 walks. It was the 2 walks that had me nervous pitching to him. He had seen a lot of pitches in his other ABS vs Floyd and made him great choice to break it up.

skottyj242
05-07-2008, 10:47 AM
No hits is no hits. Pitchers have pitched no hitters and lost.:o:

Gavin Floyd said that he has thrown three in his career, two in the minors and one in high school and has lost all three.

Believe It!
05-07-2008, 10:48 AM
I told my wife if it was gonna end it was with Mauer. 0-2 with 2 walks. It was the 2 walks that had me nervous pitching to him. He had seen a lot of pitches in his other ABS vs Floyd and made him great choice to break it up.
Or the the fact that he is the best hitter on their team

ondafarm
05-07-2008, 10:55 AM
Wins come first. Do I walk Mauer? No. He has to hit his way on base. Now, if I fall behind 3-0, yeah sure I put him on and start fresh.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 10:59 AM
If I were Ozzie last night I would have Floyd walk Mauer and hope for the double play ballto record the no hitter. Any reason why he would have faced Mauer who kills us anyways. Especially after he was already 0 for 2 you just knew he was going to get a hit. Anybody else think of this when Mauer came to the plate?

:scratch:

Gavin had retired him twice before already, why would he walk him and give the Twins a baserunner? On top of that you would have Mourneau up next.

What you're suggesting is like someone saying in 1983 that Britt Burns should have walked Tito Landrum.

havelj
05-07-2008, 11:01 AM
Never.
Never.
Never.

You want a no-hitter? Then beat the best hitter on their team. Period.

UofCSoxFan
05-07-2008, 11:04 AM
Yeah that sends a great confidence message to the kid. Intentionally walk this guy, when you haven't given up a hit, just so you can increase your chances of getting a no hitter. I mean if you aren't going to go after a guy with a 6 run lead, no one on, and your best stuff, how are you going to feel later in the year when you face him in a tie game? Not to mention, this would point an asterisk on the no-hitter in my and many other people's minds.

Terrible, terrible idea.

cws05champ
05-07-2008, 11:25 AM
Yeah that sends a great confidence message to the kid. Intentionally walk this guy, when you haven't given up a hit, just so you can increase your chances of getting a no hitter. I mean if you aren't going to go after a guy with a 6 run lead, no one on, and your best stuff, how are you going to feel later in the year when you face him in a tie game? Not to mention, this would point an asterisk on the no-hitter in my and many other people's minds.

Terrible, terrible idea.
And how!!! Floyd's stuff was getting better as the game went on. He was nasty in the 7th and 8th. You do not intentionally walk a guy just to get to another Sox killer and Left handed hitter. Can you imagine the fallout if he did give him the IBB and that opened the floodgates for 3-6 runs in the 9th? Improbable I know, but not out of the question either.

You pitch to Mauer and you have a 65% chance of getting him out...you take your chances. It is rediculous to even suggest walking him.

jdm2662
05-07-2008, 11:35 AM
This is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Then, what happens if Gavin hangs a curve ball to Moreanu and he crushes it into the seats? You want a no hitter? Earn it.

TDog
05-07-2008, 12:03 PM
Would it be a no-no since they did score a run? Technically speaking I am not sure.

No. It would not be a "no-no."

"No-no" is old newspaper headline shorthand for "no-hit, no-run game." This shorthand has been taken up by the ESPN crowd because it sounds cute. When Joe Cowley pitched a no-hitter for the White Sox, it wasn't a no-no because Reggie Jackson hit a sacrifice fly after Cowley loaded the bases -- in the sixth inning, I believe. I was listening to the game on Angels radio out of LA.

I find the term "no-no" irritating because it trivializes the achievement of a no-hitter. The fact that people don't seem to know what the term means supports my point.

The idea of intentionally walking a hitter with one-out in the ninth, no one on base and a six run lead against a team who didn't have any hits all night is absolutely ridiculous.

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 12:42 PM
No. It would not be a "no-no."

"No-no" is old newspaper headline shorthand for "no-hit, no-run game." This shorthand has been taken up by the ESPN crowd because it sounds cute. When Joe Cowley pitched a no-hitter for the White Sox, it wasn't a no-no because Reggie Jackson hit a sacrifice fly after Cowley loaded the bases -- in the sixth inning, I believe. I was listening to the game on Angels radio out of LA.

I find the term "no-no" irritating because it trivializes the achievement of a no-hitter. The fact that people don't seem to know what the term means supports my point.

The idea of intentionally walking a hitter with one-out in the ninth, no one on base and a six run lead against a team who didn't have any hits all night is absolutely ridiculous.
Hmm, I didn't know the origins of the term "no-no." Thanks, TDog. I'll make sure I use it properly from here on out.
:D:

I totally agree with your point about the intentional walk. It also seems like a cheap way to get a no-hitter. Would those of you advocating an IBB have been OK with Gomez bunting to break up the no-hitter in the bottom of the 8th? I suppose not.

TDog
05-07-2008, 12:47 PM
Hmm, I didn't know the origins of the term "no-no." Thanks, TDog. I'll make sure I use it properly from here on out. ...

I would be more impressed if you didn't use it at all.

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 12:57 PM
I would be more impressed if you didn't use it at all.
Fair enough. I see where you're coming from, I usually detest when cute abbreviations are used. I'm actually surprised I used it in a thread last night, though it was more to get to type "no" three words in a row.
:tongue:
...aaaaand I'm done.

I want Mags back
05-07-2008, 01:42 PM
if there is anything to 2nd guess, its why wasnt BA in CF in the 9th?

btrain929
05-07-2008, 03:52 PM
That's about as bad as a hitter trying to drop a bunt down to break up a no hitter. He's faced their entire lineup the entire night and has shut them down. If I were Gavin and Ozzie even suggested it (which he wouldn't in 1,000 years), I would call AJ out and tell him I'm not doing it and let's get this guy. If he gets a hit, oh well, you still have a shutout or CG depending on pitch count.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 04:13 PM
It would just be poor procedure to do that, and it would never happen in a real game. I know I sure wouldn't walk Mauer just to preserve my no hitter. And no pitcher with any kind of stones would either. Bring it owwn.

kittle42
05-07-2008, 04:21 PM
if there is anything to 2nd guess, its why wasnt BA in CF in the 9th?

Is this the third or fourth thread in which this has been brought up? :whiner:

turners56
05-07-2008, 04:25 PM
Walking Morneau or Mauer is stupid, it not only increases Floyd's pitch count, but also poses a threat for the Twins to score more runs.

Plus, it also makes the potential no-hitter so much weaker, it's like you're being a ***** and not trying to pitch to certain people, that's cheap.

turners56
05-07-2008, 04:27 PM
Is this the third or fourth thread in which this has
been brought up? :whiner:

It should have been done and would of been the smart thing to do, almost everybody is second guessing on that (including myself), it wasn't until Swisher missed that ball did I think, "why wasn't Anderson in center?".

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 04:28 PM
Walking Morneau or Mauer is stupid, it not only increases Floyd's pitch count, but also poses a threat for the Twins to score more runs.

Plus, it also makes the potential no-hitter so much weaker, it's like you're being a ***** and not trying to pitch to certain people, that's cheap.

Can you imagine how upset people here would be if the Twins tried to lay a bunt down in the 9th?

To that effect, Gavin and Ozzie made the right call trying to get Mauer out. Unfortunately the no-hitter didn't happen but the win was preserved.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 04:30 PM
Is this the third or fourth thread in which this has been brought up? :whiner:

The BA should have been in the game horse has been beaten to death. :rip:

doublem23
05-07-2008, 04:33 PM
Is this the third or fourth thread in which this has been brought up? :whiner:

The BA should have been in the game horse has been beaten to death. :rip:

We may have hit the double meat burrito of May.

turners56
05-07-2008, 04:34 PM
Can you imagine how upset people here would be if the Twins tried to lay a bunt down in the 9th?

To that effect, Gavin and Ozzie made the right call trying to get Mauer out. Unfortunately the no-hitter didn't happen but the win was preserved.

If Carlos Gomez got a hit on that little broken bat grounder to Cabrera, some fans might go crazy and go anti-Carlos Gomez forever, just like they did with Torii Hunter.

kittle42
05-07-2008, 04:48 PM
If Carlos Gomez got a hit on that little broken bat grounder to Cabrera, some fans might go crazy and go anti-Carlos Gomez forever, just like they did with Torii Hunter.

I was thinking about the bunt point last night...who was the team that laid the bunt down to break up the no-hitter a few years back? I remember the Diamondbacks being one of the teams.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 04:51 PM
I was thinking about the bunt point last night...who was the team that laid the bunt down to break up the no-hitter a few years back? I remember the Diamondbacks being one of the teams.

It was the Padres and DBacks. Ben Davis bunted as Curt Schilling took a perfect game into the 8th.

For further reading go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Davis_%28baseball%29

spiffie
05-07-2008, 04:53 PM
I was thinking about the bunt point last night...who was the team that laid the bunt down to break up the no-hitter a few years back? I remember the Diamondbacks being one of the teams.
I suspect most of the folks who normally would be pissed off will suddenly approve of this decision, as Ben Davis bunted to break up Curt Schilling's attempt at a perfect game a couple years back.

Lip Man 1
05-07-2008, 04:56 PM
As Double said earlier in the thread, some years ago MLB "cleaned up" the record books regarding no-hitters.

They dumped all games that the "no-hit" pitcher didn't pitch a full nine innings, all rain shortened no-hitters (aka Melido Perez in 1990 at New York) were dropped and all games that the "no-hit" pitcher lost (aka Andy Hawkins and Ken Johnson) were removed. Also Harvey Haddix is no longer credited with a no-hitter since he lost it and the game in extra innings but usually in the record book they indicate he had a no-hitter for a full nine innings before then explaining what transpired.

Lip

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 05:01 PM
As Double said earlier in the thread, some years ago MLB "cleaned up" the record books regarding no-hitters.

They dumped all games that the "no-hit" pitcher didn't pitch a full nine innings, all rain shortened no-hitters (aka Melido Perez in 1990 at New York) were dropped and all games that the "no-hit" pitcher lost (aka Andy Hawkins and Ken Johnson) were removed. Also Harvey Haddix is no longer credited with a no-hitter since he lost it and the game in extra innings but usually in the record book they indicate he had a no-hitter for a full nine innings before then explaining what transpired.

Lip
Lip, are you sure that "all games that the 'no-hit' pitcher lost" were stricken from the record? I'm not disputing it, just looking for a source. I had read that a loss didn't prevent a no-hitter, but pitching fewer than nine innings did.

Boondock Saint
05-07-2008, 05:09 PM
If Ozzie were to ask Gav to walk Mauer, it would have been like a slap in the face to Gavin. It would have been like saying, "I know you have taken down 25 guys without giving up a base hit, but I don't think you can get this guy." And you can damned sure guarantee that Gavin wasn't even thinking about walking him.

turners56
05-07-2008, 05:13 PM
I suspect most of the folks who normally would be pissed off will suddenly approve of this decision, as Ben Davis bunted to break up Curt Schilling's attempt at a perfect game a couple years back.

Total BS, they were only down 2-0, it wasn't 10-0, San Diego had every right to try and get back into the game.

turners56
05-07-2008, 05:14 PM
If Ozzie were to ask Gav to walk Mauer, it would have been like a slap in the face to Gavin. It would have been like saying, "I know you have taken down 25 guys without giving up a base hit, but I don't think you can get this guy." And you can damned sure guarantee that Gavin wasn't even thinking about walking him.

Exactly, and it would give columnists like Marioti more crap on Ozzie for distrusting his players or being a chicken or something.

doublem23
05-07-2008, 05:32 PM
Lip, are you sure that "all games that the 'no-hit' pitcher lost" were stricken from the record? I'm not disputing it, just looking for a source. I had read that a loss didn't prevent a no-hitter, but pitching fewer than nine innings did.

I don't think they took out all losses, just those such as Andy Hawkins'. Since the Sox didn't have to bat in the 9th inning, Hawkins only threw 8 innings of no-hit ball, so his doesn't count.

ws05champs
05-07-2008, 06:44 PM
If I were Ozzie last night I would have Floyd walk Mauer and hope for the double play ballto record the no hitter. Any reason why he would have faced Mauer who kills us anyways. Especially after he was already 0 for 2 you just knew he was going to get a hit. Anybody else think of this when Mauer came to the plate?

Of all the thoughts regarding last night's game (BA would have caught that ball, Ozzie should have let Floyd finish the game), this is certainly one of them.

TDog
05-07-2008, 06:57 PM
I don't think they took out all losses, just those such as Andy Hawkins'. Since the Sox didn't have to bat in the 9th inning, Hawkins only threw 8 innings of no-hit ball, so his doesn't count.

I don't believe any pitcher who ever lost a no-hitter in the major leagues pitched at least nine innings and finished the game without giving up a hit.