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View Full Version : At what point do we (the fans) start believing in Gavin?


JermaineDye05
05-07-2008, 02:23 AM
So far this season he's been damn good. Only having one real rough outing, I believe he gave up 5 to the Yankees also walked quite a few. Aside from that though he's been great throwing no-hit stuff in 3 of his outings, I think a lot have forgotten about the one in Baltimore. So at what point do we all believe in Gavin and start having confidence in him? I know I am guilty to still being worried about him but that has started to disappear as I have seen a totally different pitcher.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 06:15 AM
As of right now KW already has won the Garcia for Floyd and Gio trade.

Gavin is top 5 in the AL and top 15 in the MLB in ERA.

It's not getting ahead of ourselves to say that at this point in the season, Floyd has been the best performing starter in this very good rotation.

jabrch
05-07-2008, 06:16 AM
I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't believe in him at this point.

grv1974
05-07-2008, 06:20 AM
We already believe in Gavin "McLeod" Floyd.

WSox597
05-07-2008, 06:27 AM
And he did this against somebody other than the Tigers, so that should prove something.

Good job, Gavin.

DrCrawdad
05-07-2008, 06:45 AM
And he did this against somebody other than the Tigers, so that should prove something.

Good job, Gavin.

He did have a very good start against the Orioles (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore;_ylt=ApoOf8BPixr2GwgDZQgzyjaFCLcF?gid=280 417101), even though he lost.

rdwj
05-07-2008, 06:48 AM
I don't think I've heard any complaints about him in a long time - I think even the dark clouds believe at this point

Bucky F. Dent
05-07-2008, 06:58 AM
After being skeptical of whether he could "take the next step" this spring, I'm on board with Gavin.

DrCrawdad
05-07-2008, 07:00 AM
Compared to (qualified) pitchers in MLB, Gavin is...

#1 in BAA
#4 in WHIP
#13 in ERA

soxinem1
05-07-2008, 07:08 AM
We already believe in Gavin "McLeod" Floyd.
http://web2.seventymm.com/images/ActorImage/13951.jpg

'I'm Gavin McLeod and I approve of this comparison!!'

The Dude
05-07-2008, 07:23 AM
I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't believe in him at this point.

Well if you know Sox fans like I do, not believing in a pitcher such as Floyd is commonplace. :D:

I bet there are still those on this website that don't believe in Javy and are still waiting for his BIG inning to destroy him. :rolleyes:

All that being said, I'm very glad we have this young kids that are finally pitching up to their capabilities! The future is bright my fellow WSIers.

grv1974
05-07-2008, 07:24 AM
http://web2.seventymm.com/images/ActorImage/13951.jpg

'I'm Gavin McLeod and I approve of this comparison!!'

LOL

Craig Grebeck
05-07-2008, 07:26 AM
He's walking too many guys, and his luck has been incredible. I believe in his ability -- but this stretch is way over his head.

moochpuppy
05-07-2008, 07:35 AM
Floyd has been the best performing starter in this very good rotation.

The pitching has surprisingly been the Sox strength early this season. We need to get this offense going in a hurry.

The Immigrant
05-07-2008, 07:50 AM
I believe in his ability -- but this stretch is way over his head.

Not necessarily. That's exactly what people were saying about Carmona last year. It could just be the long-awaited breakout year for a first round pick.

So long as he keeps throwing that Bugs Bunny curveball for strikes, I will keep believing in him. That thing is nasty.

PopsBrechtel
05-07-2008, 08:02 AM
I'm definitely on board with Gavin.
He's had a great spring so far.
I look forward to each of his starts.

Hitmen77
05-07-2008, 08:08 AM
I have always believed in him. The problem with some Sox fans is that they have no patience with rookies. If someone isn't lights-out right when he comes up - he's garbage and will never, ever amount to anything.

I agree that rookies are always a question mark, many good minor leaguers totally flop in the majors, and that Gavin could still implode. But some of the people posting here are completely ridiculous. They were already assuming Floyd was total useless garbage before he ever pitched to a single batter for the Sox.

Yeah, I know we all had a good laugh this past winter (myself included) at KW's assertion that "29 other teams" would kill to have Floyd, but it's amazing that some were so quick to repeatedly state that Floyd was worthless....easily ignoring that Floyd actually didn't look too bad after a shaky start last season.

doublem23
05-07-2008, 08:16 AM
I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't believe in him at this point.

The only thing that scares me about Floyd is he gives up a ton of flyballs (54%, 2nd highest percentage in the A.L. (http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Closing-Time-Best-Floyd-show-since-Montreal-7;_ylt=ApGJBwm0UU4YOlYgTZfaQ_NNC5kB?urn=fantasy,81 138)) and that's potentially very, very dangerous in our yard. That said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Floyd was supposed to be a 5th starter, someone who could hold down the fort at the end of the rotation and not get blown out every 5th day, instead, he's pitched like an ace. I can live with that.

spawn
05-07-2008, 08:22 AM
I'm not gonig to say I didn't always believe in him, but I did believe he deserved a chance to succeed. I thought it was funny how many people were willing to give Danks the benefit of the doubt and not Floyd because Floyd had "failed" in Philly, even though Danks didn't exactly set the wrold on fire last year. It's nice to see both of them step it up so far this season.

jenn2080
05-07-2008, 08:23 AM
So far this season he's been damn good. Only having one real rough outing, I believe he gave up 5 to the Yankees also walked quite a few. Aside from that though he's been great throwing no-hit stuff in 3 of his outings, I think a lot have forgotten about the one in Baltimore. So at what point do we all believe in Gavin and start having confidence in him? I know I am guilty to still being worried about him but that has started to disappear as I have seen a totally different pitcher.



Was their a question about his capabilities this season?

103 screwball
05-07-2008, 08:23 AM
When he began to believe in himself, I began to believe in him. When he first came to the Sox he had a look that was difficult to describe in words. I could just see it on his face that he deep down expected to fail and was really hoping it wouldn't happen. I've seen that same look with MacDougal. Now he seems to have more of an inner calmness or confidence. The way he has been pitching and having a year to become a member of the Sox family will only make that grow. Just my observation. I was yelling at my TV and rooting for him last night. I wanted him to get it so bad.

aryzner
05-07-2008, 08:27 AM
Don't stop believing

in Gavin Floyd

doublem23
05-07-2008, 08:32 AM
Was their a question about his capabilities this season?

Apparently you missed the hundreds of "what happens when/if Danks/Floyd fails miserably" posts before the season started.

soxfan21
05-07-2008, 09:11 AM
I'm really impressed with his stuff so far, hopefully he keeps this up for the rest of the season, as long as the rest of the starting staff.

Corlose 15
05-07-2008, 09:14 AM
I've believed in him since Spring Training when he started acting more confidently and had some good outings there on top of the good way he finished last season. Everyone on the team talked about how he had so much more confidence and finally believed in himself, I felt like it would come together for him this year.

PolishPower83
05-07-2008, 09:15 AM
Gavin for President!!!

Corlose 15
05-07-2008, 09:15 AM
Apparently you missed the hundreds of "what happens when/if Danks/Floyd fails miserably" posts before the season started.

You mean the type of ones where posters would say it would be a miracle for him to even finish the season in the rotation?

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 09:16 AM
Not necessarily. That's exactly what people were saying about Carmona last year. It could just be the long-awaited breakout year for a first round pick.

So long as he keeps throwing that Bugs Bunny curveball for strikes, I will keep believing in him. That thing is nasty.

Carmona had better k numbers.

I think Floyd is looking really good but there's two caveats

1.) the book's not out on him yet
2.) he's getting a lot of outs on balls in play AND he's a flyball pitcher

Nevertheless, his WHIP and BAA are great which are very encouraging signs

palehozenychicty
05-07-2008, 09:19 AM
I'd like to see the walks come down a little bit but otherwise he's stopped two losing streaks this year. We can't complain much. I'm just glad that he's getting the ball every fifth day without looking over his shoulder.

doublem23
05-07-2008, 09:23 AM
You mean the type of ones where posters would say it would be a miracle for him to even finish the season in the rotation?

Pretty much. You can put me in the camp that was silently concerned about the starting pitching going into this season, mostly because I wasn't sure if Floyd, Danks, and Contreras would all be reliable options for the entire season, and the cupboard is pretty bare after that.

It's only Week 1 of May, but the starting pitching staff has an ERA of 3.69 (3.63 if you remove Masset's emergency start)... That's bested by only 3 teams in the AL: Cleveland, Oakland, and Toronto.

Believe It!
05-07-2008, 09:23 AM
So far this season he's been damn good. Only having one real rough outing, I believe he gave up 5 to the Yankees also walked quite a few. Aside from that though he's been great throwing no-hit stuff in 3 of his outings, I think a lot have forgotten about the one in Baltimore. So at what point do we all believe in Gavin and start having confidence in him? I know I am guilty to still being worried about him but that has started to disappear as I have seen a totally different pitcher.


Funny, I haven't heard anyone say that they don't believe in him.

balke
05-07-2008, 09:36 AM
Last September with him getting some good outings and a 3.19 ERA that month.

MsSoxVixen22
05-07-2008, 09:52 AM
I'm not worried about him. The kid's shown great potential and he will be the future of the rotation. He's going to have a hell of a season

areilly
05-07-2008, 10:03 AM
He's walking too many guys, and his luck has been incredible. I believe in his ability -- but this stretch is way over his head.

Agreed. It may actually be possible for him to at least live up to the hype, but he's not going to be flirting with no-hitters every time out. Likewise, this season only represents 6 of his 35 starts. Baseball's too long of a season to start believing in anything on May 7th.

cws05champ
05-07-2008, 10:04 AM
Man...with Floyd and Danks going the way they are along with Buehrle and Vazquez in the fold for the next 3 years. Things look good for the rotation in the near future.

Paulwny
05-07-2008, 10:16 AM
1.) the book's not out on him yet



Exactly, wait until batters have seen him over 1-2 yrs.

soltrain21
05-07-2008, 10:19 AM
Exactly, wait until batters have seen him over 1-2 yrs.


And then he makes adjustments. If this was the case, then there would be no good pitchers in the MLB.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 10:22 AM
And then he makes adjustments. If this was the case, then there would be no good pitchers in the MLB.

Well, that's kind of the point, dude.

Some pitchers are able to make adjustments once the book is on them, some aren't.

Gavin's looked great, and I do have faith in him, but the real test will be after he's made it through the league one more time--after teams have had a chance to face him knowing that he's an elite pitcher and having seen what he can throw :shrug:

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 10:23 AM
he's getting a lot of outs on balls in play AND he's a flyball pitcher

This is a fair criticism/concern. Because I don't get to watch many Sox games, can anyone tell me approximately what percentage of the fly balls are:

1). Driven hard but die at the track (and thus have a chance to clear the fence when its warmer) or hit hard but right at one of our OFs (and often might get past an OF for an extra-base hit, like Mauer's double last night)?

2). Lazy flyouts or popups (and thus might just fly deeper into the OF, but likely still would be caught)?

Bottom line: Is he getting hit hard, or weakly?

GAsoxfan
05-07-2008, 10:58 AM
Man...with Floyd and Danks going the way they are along with Buehrle and Vazquez in the fold for the next 3 years. Things look good for the rotation in the near future.

Definitely. Hopefully Broadway can replace Contreras in '09 or '10 and be a decent #5 starter.

34 Inch Stick
05-07-2008, 11:02 AM
I believe in the lord my god and jesus christ his son...private santiago died because he had no honor.

MisterB
05-07-2008, 11:05 AM
http://web2.seventymm.com/images/ActorImage/13951.jpg

'I'm Gavin McLeod and I approve of this comparison!!'

I prefer Gavin "Count" Floyd

http://moderateleft.com/images/floyd.jpg
"Oooooooo, it's scary, kids!"

kjhanson
05-07-2008, 11:51 AM
He's walking too many guys, and his luck has been incredible. I believe in his ability -- but this stretch is way over his head.

That luck factor is entirely incredulous. Of course, the argument goes that there are a lot of balls being put into play at people this year. Over the course of the season, those balls will "even out" and his batting average against will skyrocket. It's bull**** though. How do control pitchers make a living? By making batters hit good pitches. Gavin's been doing just that this year. The control of his breaking ball has been magnificent. When batters put it in play it's impossible for them to square it up. Of course, I'd like to see the walk rate go down a bit, but it beats the hell out of him laying it down the middle. I encourage you to check out some of his game logs at Baseball Reference. The full play-by-plays are somewhat descriptive. The number of weak groundballs, foulouts, and non-deep flyballs is encouraging.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=floydga01&t=p&year=2008


1.) the book's not out on him yet

I'm still waiting for the book on Johan Santana, Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, Jake Peavy, John Smoltz, Roy Oswalt, etc, etc. Oh wait, it's probably not going to come out. Why? Because these pitchers have excellent "stuff", which is what Gavin possesses. It's not like he's a flash-in-the-pan. He was drafted third overall for a reason. His breaking ball is back to where it used to be, his changeup is a plus pitch and he's spotting his fastball well when he needs to. Plus, he's had over 200 innings in the major leagues thus far. I think the book on him has been on on the shelf for a while.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:01 PM
I'm still waiting for the book on Johan Santana, Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, Jake Peavy, John Smoltz, Roy Oswalt, etc, etc. Oh wait, it's probably not going to come out. Why? Because these pitchers have excellent "stuff", which is what Gavin possesses. It's not like he's a flash-in-the-pan. He was drafted third overall for a reason. His breaking ball is back to where it used to be, his changeup is a plus pitch and he's spotting his fastball well when he needs to. Plus, he's had over 200 innings in the major leagues thus far. I think the book on him has been on on the shelf for a while.

Jesus ****ing Christ. This is ridiculous. I'm not saying Gavin's going to fail the second round. I'm saying the second time around is going to show us what he's really made of.

For every ace pitcher you mentioned (and most of them--except for Webb--are strikeout pitchers, unlike Gavin...and Webb is a ground ball pitcher, unlike Gavin)--but for every ace pitcher there are myriad pitchers who looked great the first time through the league and then faltered once the book got out.

Gavin's had a wonderful year, and I've always been high on him, but to ignore the following truths is silly

1.) Gavin is a flyball pitcher in a hitter's park
2.) Gavin doesn't strike out a lot of people and a lot of great plays behind him have contributed to his success
3.) Most of these people he's getting out are seeing him for the first time, and players tend to hit pitchers better the second and third times they see them.

So like I said, I think Gavin has great stuff and a great approach, but the true test of how good he is (i.e. is he more like Branden Webb or Danny Wright?) will come when he starts to see guys multiple times.

After all, that's how you separate a Johan Santana from a Brandon McCarthy to begin with :rolleyes:

ohiosoxfan
05-07-2008, 12:08 PM
The thing I'm excited about with Floyd is that he seems to pitch well against teams in our division. . the teams we are going to face the most. We know he's had great success vs. the Tigers, now has pitched well vs. Minnesota. I'm looking forward to seeing him face the Indians. If he can consistently pitch well against the AL Central, he becomes extremely valuable.

jabrch
05-07-2008, 12:16 PM
I love it when people try and criticize the way he gets out as not being good enough...

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:21 PM
I love it when people try and criticize the way he gets out as not being good enough...

Who's doing this? People are just pointing out that Floyd's relied on a lot of help from his defense.

If that continues (and it very well could), WONDERFUL! However, it's just not very likely TO continue.

We're not talking about Mark Burly here, a guy who's built a whole career out of pitching to contact. We're talking about a kid who USED to be a strikeout pitcher, who is still learning how to pitch to contact, and who has had a grand total of like 10 good starts in his 4 year career.

It's hardly "people trying and criticizing the way he gets outs." It's more like "people being realistic about what Floyd's early success means, and hoping he continues it"

spawn
05-07-2008, 12:23 PM
I love it when people try and criticize the way he gets out as not being good enough...
It is quite comical.:redneck

doublem23
05-07-2008, 12:25 PM
I love it when people try and criticize the way he gets out as not being good enough...

I think your missing the point... It's not like we're upset that he's getting guys out via the flyball, but it is true that he pitches half his starts in a HR-friendly park and he gives up a lot of flyballs. He hasn't given up too many homers, but he's only had 6 starts.

:dunno:

He's got great stuff, no doubt, and I don't think he'll implode, but I do think he's pitching over his head right now. It's possible to be cautiously optimistic.

Prove my wrong, Floyd! Prove me wrong.

thomas35forever
05-07-2008, 12:29 PM
Floyd has been nothing short of impressive ever since the season began. The fact that he's on my fantasy team proves my faith in him. If he can just avoid a slide at some point, I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the All-Star team.

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 12:32 PM
I love it when people try and criticize the way he gets out as not being good enough...
What about when people criticize Thome for striking out, implying that striking out (for a hitter) is worse than making outs in some other way? Totally reasonable.

rwcescato
05-07-2008, 12:37 PM
So far this season he's been damn good. Only having one real rough outing, I believe he gave up 5 to the Yankees also walked quite a few. Aside from that though he's been great throwing no-hit stuff in 3 of his outings, I think a lot have forgotten about the one in Baltimore. So at what point do we all believe in Gavin and start having confidence in him? I know I am guilty to still being worried about him but that has started to disappear as I have seen a totally different pitcher.

now is the time. Also KW is making himself look good with the confidence in the starting pitching. I thought that was going to be our weak point. Not now hopefully it continues thru the season.:)

kjhanson
05-07-2008, 12:39 PM
I think your missing the point... It's not like we're upset that he's getting guys out via the flyball, but it is true that he pitches half his starts in a HR-friendly park and he gives up a lot of flyballs. He hasn't given up too many homers, but he's only had 6 starts.



But it's for this reason that I encouraged people in my previous post to check out the Baseball Reference play-by-play logs. He's had a very low incidence of deep fly-balls and line-drives to the outfield. A shallow flyball is an out in every single ballpark in the league.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 12:43 PM
A shallow flyball is an out in every single ballpark in the league.

Except in the 364-foot LF power alley, complete with Tru-Link "Sandberg Basket" at the Urinal. :tongue:

Corlose 15
05-07-2008, 12:45 PM
I think your missing the point... It's not like we're upset that he's getting guys out via the flyball, but it is true that he pitches half his starts in a HR-friendly park and he gives up a lot of flyballs. He hasn't given up too many homers, but he's only had 6 starts.

:dunno:

He's got great stuff, no doubt, and I don't think he'll implode, but I do think he's pitching over his head right now. It's possible to be cautiously optimistic.

Prove my wrong, Floyd! Prove me wrong.

http://www.rob-clarkson.com/duff-brewery/skinner/02.jpg
"Come on Doublem, you and I both know that Gavin Floyd HAS no future!

kjhanson
05-07-2008, 01:00 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ. This is ridiculous. I'm not saying Gavin's going to fail the second round. I'm saying the second time around is going to show us what he's really made of.


He's had multiple starts against only two American League teams - the Tigers and the Twins.

First two starts against Twins:
0-2, 7.94 ERA, 1.94 WHIP, 11.3 IP
Next two starts against Twins:
1-1, 1.88 ERA, .84 WHIP, 14.3 IP

First start against Tigers:
4.7 IP, 5 earned, 11 hits
Next five starts against Tigers:
3-0, 1.39 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 32.3 IP

The Twins didn't figure him out in the third or fourth go-arounds. And the Tigers have failed in attempts 2,3,4,5 and 6. Possible Gavin is adjusting to them instead?

There may be an additional underlying factor here: A.J. Pierzynski.

When A.J. Catches:
222 at-bats, .216 BAA, .299 OBPA, .678 OPSA
Sal Fasano Catches:
203 at-bats, .310/.393/.965
Mike Lieberthal Catches:
165 at-bats, .297/.429/.993

Tells us what we already know, right? He's a better pitcher with the Sox than with Philadelphia.....except:
Toby Hall Catches:
123 at-bats, .309/.358/.935

Three different catchers, two different teams and yet the splits are pretty similar, and yet noticeably different from when A.J. is the backstop. Start (I mean, continue,) the Toby Hall bashing here.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
He's had multiple starts against only two American League teams - the Tigers and the Twins.


Here's what I'm saying--he's starting to garner attention as "one of the best pitchers in the league"

That means teams are going to put a lot more time into scouting him.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 01:08 PM
Three different catchers, two different teams and yet the splits are pretty similar, and noticeably different from when A.J. is the backstop. Start (I mean, continue,) the Toby Hall bashing here.

Thank you for sharing that info! That's good to know! :smile:

Sox It To Em
05-07-2008, 01:23 PM
As much as I love the new Cy Young version of Gavin Floyd, a .148 BABIP is extraordinarily difficult to maintain. He's going to come back down to earth, probably sooner than later, but I think he'll still have a great year. A 3.50-4.00 ERA seems very possible.

Bob G
05-07-2008, 01:23 PM
As long as Gavin can keep throwing the curve ball for strikes I think he'll be just fine.

From what I've seen so far is his confidence is probably the biggest difference compared to last year - he needs to continue to believe in himself.

ondafarm
05-07-2008, 01:42 PM
He's walking too many guys, and his luck has been incredible. I believe in his ability -- but this stretch is way over his head.

Thanks for that.

rdwj
05-07-2008, 02:06 PM
He's walking too many guys, and his luck has been incredible. I believe in his ability -- but this stretch is way over his head.

Isn't flirting with two no-hitters in a handful of starts pretty much over EVERYONE'S head?

areilly
05-07-2008, 02:08 PM
What about when people criticize Thome for striking out, implying that striking out (for a hitter) is worse than making outs in some other way? Totally reasonable.

Thome striking out
Keeps runners from advancing
And drives in no runs

That is way worse than
Number 25 producing
But hey, whatever

areilly
05-07-2008, 02:11 PM
I love it when people try and criticize the way he gets out as not being good enough...

I don't think it's a matter of being good enough as much as it's a matter of being reliable enough. As mentioned throughout this thread already, being a flyball pitcher at USCF has almost never been a recipe for success, unless your name was Brad Radke.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 02:14 PM
Thome striking out
Keeps runners from advancing
And drives in no runs

That is way worse than
Number 25 producing
But hey, whatever

Thome's batted outs very rarely move runners over

areilly
05-07-2008, 02:16 PM
Thome's batted outs very rarely move runners over

True, but the times they do are still supreme to the times they don't. Or substitute any player for Thome and reread my haiku. You know what I meant.

oeo
05-07-2008, 02:19 PM
Carmona had better k numbers.

I think Floyd is looking really good but there's two caveats

1.) the book's not out on him yet
2.) he's getting a lot of outs on balls in play AND he's a flyball pitcher

Nevertheless, his WHIP and BAA are great which are very encouraging signs

The book isn't out on him? :scratch:

He's struggled for two years...there's a pretty big book on him.

I think Gavin's biggest key has been his confidence, which seems to be growing even more with every start. His breaking ball last night looked the best I've seen it since he's been here, and he was able to throw it for a strike when he needed to. Hopefully he keeps on rolling, and that confidence keeps growing...then I think we could see the K's start going up.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 02:19 PM
True, but the times they do are still supreme to the times they don't. Or substitute any player for Thome and reread my haiku. You know what I meant.

But Thome's, it seems, even less. His batted outs tend more to be flyouts than groundouts

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 02:22 PM
True, but the times they do are still supreme to the times they don't. Or substitute any player for Thome and reread my haiku. You know what I meant.
Well, of course. And the times he hits HR are still supreme to the times he doesn't.

What is different, though, is that while a batted out can possibly move a runner over, it can also possibly result in a double play.

In most cases, for a hitter, strikeout == groundout == flyout.

Sox It To Em
05-07-2008, 02:25 PM
A strikeout can't advance a runner, but it also can't result in a double play. Obviously, there are certain situations when a batted ball is preferable to a strikeout, and vice versa, but it's largely a wash.

Harry Chappas
05-07-2008, 02:41 PM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't Gavin only 25? While I don't expect to see flirtations with no-hitters on a regular basis, I'm not sure we have even seen his best at this point.

The fact that he struggled in Philly is hardly evidence that his recent success is an aberration. He pitched a whopping 125 innings over three seasons, which began when he was only 21. Yes, he got knocked around a bit but there were some good starts mixed in. I can think of easier places to begin your career as a highly-touted prospect than Philly.

SoxNation05
05-07-2008, 03:41 PM
He's walking too many guys, and his luck has been incredible. I believe in his ability -- but this stretch is way over his head.
I despise Craig Grebeck.

Carolina Kenny
05-07-2008, 03:53 PM
We have very good luck with players named Floyd as opposed to bad luck with players named Bell.

erob3833
05-07-2008, 04:16 PM
i believe! if you don't allow me to dropkick you!

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 04:23 PM
The book isn't out on him? :scratch:

He's struggled for two years...there's a pretty big book on him.

I think Gavin's biggest key has been his confidence, which seems to be growing even more with every start. His breaking ball last night looked the best I've seen it since he's been here, and he was able to throw it for a strike when he needed to. Hopefully he keeps on rolling, and that confidence keeps growing...then I think we could see the K's start going up.


Posts like this display a certain ignorance--

Floyd has completely changed the way he pitched since he got here. The book isn't out on him at all.

But nice try.

turners56
05-07-2008, 04:26 PM
I despise Craig Grebeck.

Like it or not, that's true. Gavin is walking way too many guys for his record and ERA. I don't know if he's really lucky because he's getting guys out with good pitches. Buehrle must be the luckiest man alive if you use that logic. But yea, his walks need to go down, free base runners is a death trap to pitchers. The only run that scored last night was from a walk...

kjhanson
05-07-2008, 04:58 PM
Posts like this display a certain ignorance--

Floyd has completely changed the way he pitched since he got here. The book isn't out on him at all.

But nice try.

I've been following him for six years and from what I can tell, here's what's changed since his days in Philadelphia:

Changeup is greatly improved.
Curveball is much tighter with better lateral movement and better control.
A.J. is better behind the plate than either Fasano or Lieberthal.
Confidence in his stuff has grown -- throwing first pitch breaking balls and getting them over is an enormous leap.

He really looks sharp this year.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 05:08 PM
I've been following him for six years and from what I can tell, here's what's changed since his days in Philadelphia:

Changeup is greatly improved.
Curveball is much tighter with better lateral movement and better control.
A.J. is better behind the plate than either Fasano or Lieberthal.
Confidence in his stuff has grown -- throwing first pitch breaking balls and getting them over is an enormous leap.

He really looks sharp this year.

Also, his pitching philosophy has changed. He's more willing to throw the ball over the plate, hence him having only 18 walks so far.

He's gone from a power pitcher to more of a White Sox approach--i.e. you don't have to strike guys out, but you have to make them hit YOUR pitch

soltrain21
05-07-2008, 05:22 PM
I've believed in him since he was immaculately conceived about 25 years ago.

Craig Grebeck
05-07-2008, 09:25 PM
I despise Craig Grebeck.
Tell me how I'm wrong. There's no factual basis for a disagreement -- he has been absurdly fortunate.

soltrain21
05-07-2008, 10:01 PM
Tell me how I'm wrong. There's no factual basis for a disagreement -- he has been absurdly fortunate.



There is no factual evidence FOR it, either. He is getting out of jams...that is how much pitchers are succcessful.

fquaye149
05-08-2008, 01:02 AM
There is no factual evidence FOR it, either. He is getting out of jams...that is how much pitchers are succcessful.

There's plenty of evidence for it.

DIPS is a good place to start

EastCoastSoxFan
05-08-2008, 09:57 AM
Having also followed Floyd since his Philadelphia days, I'd say his development is right about on schedule.
There are very few prodigies among starting pitchers.
Most starters need two or three full seasons to develop into bona fide starting pitchers.
Of course there have been exceptions -- Mark Buehrle, Dwight Gooden, and Fernando Valenzuela come to mind as pitchers who established themsleves as big-league starters within a year of breaking into the majors.

Another thing I've noticed is that some pitchers seem to function better when expectations are dialed back.
In Philadelphia Floyd had the #1 draft pick expectations always hanging around his neck, which meant that every move he made was under incredible scrutiny and if he didn't dominate the opposition every time he pitched the Philly dark clouds were ready to swarm in like vultures.
In Chicago all he's being asked to do is to take the mound every fifth day, make his pitches, let the defense help him, and give the team a chance to win the game.
Going into the season the consensus of opinion around here seemed to be that we needed big seasons out of Buehrle, Vazquez, and Contreras, and anything we got from Danks and Floyd was gravy.
Sounds eerily similar to Garland in '05 and Loiaza in '03, and we know how those pitchers' seasons turned out.

As long as Floyd keeps doing what he's doing and learns to adjust to the inevitable adjustments that hitters will make to him, he'll be fine.

Stringer
05-10-2008, 04:23 AM
I've believe in Pretty Boy Floyd since the end of last season

Also, Pretty Boy Floyd as a potential nickname, yay or nay???

Tragg
05-10-2008, 07:37 AM
DIPS is a good place to start
If you believe that DIPS is a meaningful metric.
You said it above - the Sox don't as there basiclaly is no such thing as hitting your pitch (or defense) in DIPS analysis.

turners56
05-10-2008, 09:53 AM
I've believe in Pretty Boy Floyd since the end of last season

Also, Pretty Boy Floyd as a potential nickname, yay or nay???

Swish gave him that one.

fquaye149
05-10-2008, 10:02 AM
pretty boy floyd?

http://www.rockdetector.com/assets/resized/img/artists/7000-0-220-0-300.jpg

:no:

tick53
05-10-2008, 11:17 AM
As of right now KW already has won the Garcia for Floyd and Gio trade.

BINGO!

tick53
05-10-2008, 11:19 AM
If the singer Pink married Gavin Floyd, she'd be Pink Floyd.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

santo=dorf
05-10-2008, 12:02 PM
Isn't this around the same time last year everyone started believing in David Aardsma?:scratch:

Sockinchisox
05-10-2008, 12:14 PM
I've been more impressed with Danks than I have with Gavin.

That being said, obviously it's hard to not like what Gavin has done this far. But I don't think he'll end up anywhere near that sparkling 2.50 ERA he has, I'm think more about 4ish.

fquaye149
05-10-2008, 12:33 PM
I've been more impressed with Danks than I have with Gavin.

That being said, obviously it's hard to not like what Gavin has done this far. But I don't think he'll end up anywhere near that sparkling 2.50 ERA he has, I'm think more about 4ish.

Danks's K numbers have been lovely :)

JB98
05-10-2008, 12:42 PM
I will believe in Gavin after he makes 30 starts in the big leagues for the first time in his career.

He has been a pleasant surprise to this point. Hopefully, Gavin believes in himself. That's more important than what the hell I think about him.

slavko
05-10-2008, 05:21 PM
The only thing that scares me about Floyd is he gives up a ton of flyballs (54%, 2nd highest percentage in the A.L. (http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Closing-Time-Best-Floyd-show-since-Montreal-7;_ylt=ApGJBwm0UU4YOlYgTZfaQ_NNC5kB?urn=fantasy,81 138)) and that's potentially very, very dangerous in our yard. That said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Floyd was supposed to be a 5th starter, someone who could hold down the fort at the end of the rotation and not get blown out every 5th day, instead, he's pitched like an ace. I can live with that.

This is a good thing in case your "ace" is pitching like....oh, never mind.

Stringer
05-11-2008, 03:07 AM
If the singer Pink married Gavin Floyd, she'd be Pink Floyd.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

I'm be sure to tip my waitress

:lol:

sox1970
05-11-2008, 10:35 AM
When he's at Yankee Stadium in July.

jabrch
05-11-2008, 11:14 AM
I think your missing the point... It's not like we're upset that he's getting guys out via the flyball, but it is true that he pitches half his starts in a HR-friendly park and he gives up a lot of flyballs. He hasn't given up too many homers, but he's only had 6 starts.

:dunno:

He's got great stuff, no doubt, and I don't think he'll implode, but I do think he's pitching over his head right now. It's possible to be cautiously optimistic.

Prove my wrong, Floyd! Prove me wrong.

I just make it a habit to not complain about an out. It is one thing to hope it can continue. It is another thing to try and manipulate that into a negative for a guy throwing so well.

jabrch
05-11-2008, 11:20 AM
But I don't think he'll end up anywhere near that sparkling 2.50 ERA he has,

I think that is obvious

I'm think more about 4ish.

I am not sure you have any basis to draw that conclusion...

Mohoney
05-11-2008, 12:23 PM
If he goes out there and shuts Seattle down today, getting us a much needed sweep, it could be the start of something really big for this guy.

His biggest problems have always been in his head.

TheVulture
05-11-2008, 06:37 PM
I won't believe in him until he actually finishes off a no-hitter. Just needs to focus a little more next time.:cuss:

Daver
05-11-2008, 06:45 PM
Maybe after he wins his second Cy Young award.







Maybe.

whitesoxfan1986
05-14-2008, 11:42 PM
I was wondering something about Gavin, and if anyone else has noticed the same observation I have. Last year when Gavin came up to the big club, he was throwing a straight 93-94 mph fastball and a 90-91 mph two seamer. This year I haven't seen his fastball above 91 mph, but it has had more movement. Is it possible that they told him to sacrifice the 3 mph of his fastball for movement, and if that is the case, could that be contributing to his success? BTW when Gavin got shelled against the Mariners, his curve was very flat, it was the worst I'd seen him have, no bite whatsoever.