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View Full Version : To BA or not to BA... That is the question/Split from May 6 Post-Game Thread


champagne030
05-06-2008, 10:42 PM
Ozzie ****ed that up for Gavin. Anderson catches that ball without so much as a slide.....Swish had a terrible jump. Oh, well....

We scored 7 ****ING runs and finally got a win. :bandance::bandance::bandance:

Over By There
05-06-2008, 10:45 PM
Ozzie ****ed that up for Gavin. Anderson catches that ball without so much as a slide.....

When will it stop. :rolleyes:

Great job, Gavin.

champagne030
05-06-2008, 11:05 PM
When will it stop. :rolleyes:



When Ozzie doesn't **** up an easy "X & O" move during the game. :scratch:

Frontman
05-06-2008, 11:10 PM
When Ozzie doesn't **** up an easy "X & O" move during the game. :scratch:

Did the move cost the team the game? No? Then its a frivilious thing to worry about.

SOX WIN BABY!!!! That's the important part.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:12 AM
When will it stop. :rolleyes:

Great job, Gavin.

Anderson wouldn't have even had to dive for it.

Ozzie cost him the no hitter, plain and simple. Go ahead and believe what you want.

Why is BA even on the team?

JB98
05-07-2008, 12:20 AM
Anderson wouldn't have even had to dive for it.

Ozzie cost him the no hitter, plain and simple. Go ahead and believe what you want.

Why is BA even on the team?

Because we need a fourth outfielder. That's why BA is on the team.

Honest to God, I despise the ground that the FOBA walk on.

Anderson himself has made some strides now and deserves his roster spot. But his legion of fans who cry because he was not used as a defensive replacement in a 7-1 game can rot in hell.

Enjoy the Sox victory and stop complaining, you ****ing morons. We've spent the last week getting our asses handed to us on a ****ing platter. We finally won a ****ing game, and I still have to read your ****ing crybaby bull****. It's ridiculous.

It's the same ****ing people every time too. I knew as soon as I logged on that this thread was going to be filled with this utter bull****. You ****ing people like Brian Anderson more than you like the White Sox. Get over it already.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:23 AM
Because we need a fourth outfielder. That's why BA is on the team.

Honest to God, I despise the ground that the FOBA walk on.

Anderson himself has made some strides now and deserves his roster spot. But his legion of fans who cry because he was not used as a defensive replacement in a 7-1 game can rot in hell.

Enjoy the Sox victory and stop complaining, you ****ing morons. We've spent the last week getting our asses handed to us on a ****ing platter. We finally won a ****ing game, and I still have to read your ****ing crybaby bull****. It's ridiculous.

It's the same ****ing people every time too. I knew as soon as I logged on that this thread was going to be filled with this utter bull****. You ****ing people like Brian Anderson more than you like the White Sox. Get over it already.

Wow. Someone feels a lot stronger about this than I do.

The problem is this incident is exemplary of a bigger problem--Ozzie's inability to coach a baseball team.

I mean..dude..

SERIOUSLY

why the capital **** wasn't BA in center for a no-hit bid in the 9th?

Get off your WSI FO-- bull**** and see the big picture. :rolleyes:

WhiteSox5187
05-07-2008, 12:29 AM
Wow. Someone feels a lot stronger about this than I do.

The problem is this incident is exemplary of a bigger problem--Ozzie's inability to coach a baseball team.

I mean..dude..

SERIOUSLY

why the capital **** wasn't BA in center for a no-hit bid in the 9th?

Get off your WSI FO-- bull**** and see the big picture. :rolleyes:
The big picture would be the win.

I was wondering why Anderson was in there, but if he was playing Mauer to hit it to right, he wouldn't have gotten either. The only hope Gavin had was that Swish MIGHT be able to get a glove on it and it would go as an error because I don't think anyone would have caught the ball.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:31 AM
The big picture would be the win.

I was wondering why Anderson was in there, but if he was playing Mauer to hit it to right, he wouldn't have gotten either. The only hope Gavin had was that Swish MIGHT be able to get a glove on it and it would go as an error because I don't think anyone would have caught the ball.


Here's the big picture: If the no-hitter isn't important than Floyd doesn't go out to start the 9th

Therefore, it's clear the no-hitter is important (not AS important as the win, but important to Ozzie nonetheless).

Since the no-hitter is important, NOW would be the time to use the best defensive arrangement (if for no other reason than to get Dye off the field!)

This was a mistake. It may or not have cost us a no-hitter, which, depending how you look at it might be worse than costing us a win (i.e. in 2007, if Ozzie had somehow cost Burly his no-no, but we still won, that would have probably been cold comfort)

That said, we won, which is pretty rad! And Gavin pitched a great game, which is also rad

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:34 AM
The big picture would be the win.

I was wondering why Anderson was in there, but if he was playing Mauer to hit it to right, he wouldn't have gotten either. The only hope Gavin had was that Swish MIGHT be able to get a glove on it and it would go as an error because I don't think anyone would have caught the ball.

You gotta be kidding. Swisher got a terrible jump and doesn't have any recovering speed, and he still came within a few feet of it.

Any good CF who got a decent enough read on that would've caught it.

It's just irritating. I'm glad we won, sure, yay, 1-6 in the last week. We're not on the team though, so there's no reason we can't harp on relevant things other than the outcome.

JB98
05-07-2008, 12:34 AM
Wow. Someone feels a lot stronger about this than I do.

The problem is this incident is exemplary of a bigger problem--Ozzie's inability to coach a baseball team.

I mean..dude..

SERIOUSLY

why the capital **** wasn't BA in center for a no-hit bid in the 9th?

Get off your WSI FO-- bull**** and see the big picture. :rolleyes:

Convincing argument. You win.

HangWiffum
05-07-2008, 12:35 AM
he was not used as a defensive replacement in a 7-1 game can rot in hell.


i'm not upset about BA not being used but the question has to be asked. would BA have cought the ball? we'll never know. great game tonight. i sat in the scout seats for the first time and let me say it the second best experience i've had at the ballpark (game 1 of the 2005 WS being the first). it's something all sox fans should experience at least once.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:35 AM
Convincing argument. You win.

Not sure what this adds to the discussion.

Do you care to take a stab at the actual issue, which is: why wasn't the best defense on the field for the chance for Gavin to be a part of history?

It's real cute and all to act like a no-hitter doesn't mean anything and that there's no reason to play for it "since it's a 7-1 game" but it's pretty clear that's bull****

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:36 AM
Convincing argument. You win.

Sorry, I couldn't come up with something like "BA is the fourth OF, that's why he's on the team."

That really helped your argument. :laff:

Marqhead
05-07-2008, 12:37 AM
If Ozzie had put BA in and he had missed that ball as well all of you would be complaining that Ozzie jinxed the no-hitter by changing the team on the field.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:37 AM
If Ozzie had put BA in and he had missed that ball as well all of you would be complaining that Ozzie jinxed the no-hitter by changing the team on the field.

Some would, but most people would probably recognize that

a.) jinxes don't exist

b.) the best way to protect a no-hitter is to put the best possible team on the field

:shrug:

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:38 AM
If Ozzie had put BA in and he had missed that ball as well all of you would be complaining that Ozzie jinxed the no-hitter by changing the team on the field.

Here's the second-guessing accusation, right on cue.

Sigh..

If BA did miss that ball (and he wouldn't have), Ozzie would have done his job. As it stands, he didn't, and it's annoying to have such a clueless manager.

JB98
05-07-2008, 12:38 AM
Here's the big picture: If the no-hitter isn't important than Floyd doesn't go out to start the 9th

Therefore, it's clear the no-hitter is important (not AS important as the win, but important to Ozzie nonetheless).

Since the no-hitter is important, NOW would be the time to use the best defensive arrangement (if for no other reason than to get Dye off the field!)

This was a mistake. It may or not have cost us a no-hitter, which, depending how you look at it might be worse than costing us a win (i.e. in 2007, if Ozzie had somehow cost Burly his no-no, but we still won, that would have probably been cold comfort)

That said, we won, which is pretty rad! And Gavin pitched a great game, which is also rad

Last year, I was at the game where Buehrle pitched his no-hitter. Anderson played LF in the late innings because Pods is a defensive liability.

No one in our outfield is a defensive liability, so there was no reason to make a move tonight.

I'm tired of hearing the FOBA lecture us about this topic.

JB98
05-07-2008, 12:39 AM
Sorry, I couldn't come up with something like "BA is the fourth OF, that's why he's on the team."

That really helped your argument. :laff:

You wanted to know why Anderson is on the team. I told you: Because we need a backup outfielder.

I stupid-ass question requires a stupid-ass answer.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:39 AM
Last year, I was at the game where Buehrle pitched his no-hitter. Anderson played LF in the late innings because Pods is a defensive liability.

No one in our outfield is a defensive liability, so there was no reason to make a move tonight.

I'm tired of hearing the FOBA lecture us about this topic.

So the only way to improve a defense is to replace a defensive liability?

I'm afraid you've lost me.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:43 AM
You wanted to know why Anderson is on the team. I told you: Because we need a backup outfielder.

I stupid-ass question requires a stupid-ass answer.

You're right, that was a stupid-ass answer.

Why is BA on the team? Because of his bat? :rolleyes:

Putting him in there is beyond a no-brainer. I'm sorry if your hatred for "FOBA" prohibits you from seeing plain logic in front of your face. I'd rather you keep it to yourself instead of acting like you have the foggiest what you're talking about.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:44 AM
I'm a FOLA--Friend of Lame Acronyms

JB98
05-07-2008, 12:47 AM
So the only way to improve a defense is to replace a defensive liability?

I'm afraid you've lost me.

I think we have a very good defensive team. We had a very good defensive team behind Gavin for the ninth inning, just as we did for the first eight innings.

I don't see what the problem is. Quentin, Swisher, Dye: All good outfielders. No need to make a change.

But, of course, we have the same cast of characters here boo-hoo-hooing about Ozzie's supposed grudge against Brian Anderson. It's so predictable. As soon as the game ended tonight, everyone in this sports department immediately started making wisecracks about how the Anderson people were going to be furious about "Ozzie costing Gavin the no-hitter."

Surprise, surprise. That's exactly what happened.

I'm done for the night.

Frontman
05-07-2008, 12:48 AM
Why is Brian Anderson on the team?

To give Sox fans something to complain about after a win.


http://adweek.blogs.com/adfreak/images/king_3.jpg

"Next question."

JB98
05-07-2008, 12:48 AM
You're right, that was a stupid-ass answer.

Why is BA on the team? Because of his bat? :rolleyes:

Putting him in there is beyond a no-brainer. I'm sorry if your hatred for "FOBA" prohibits you from seeing plain logic in front of your face. I'd rather you keep it to yourself instead of acting like you have the foggiest what you're talking about.

Then put me on your ignore list. I'll extend you the same courtesy now.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:50 AM
Last year, I was at the game where Buehrle pitched his no-hitter. Anderson played LF in the late innings because Pods is a defensive liability.

No one in our outfield is a defensive liability, so there was no reason to make a move tonight.

Last line edited out for irrelevance

LOL. Swisher is a stopgap CF at best. He's done an adequate job, and hasn't cost us any games.

HOWEVER, this kind of decision is what can and does cost you games. Kind of like using BA to squeeze when there's a man on third and two hacks left.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:50 AM
I think we have a very good defensive team. We had a very good defensive team behind Gavin for the ninth inning, just as we did for the first eight innings.

I don't see what the problem is. Quentin, Swisher, Dye: All good outfielders. No need to make a change.

But, of course, we have the same cast of characters here boo-hoo-hooing about Ozzie's supposed grudge against Brian Anderson. It's so predictable. As soon as the game ended tonight, everyone in this sports department immediately started making wisecracks about how the Anderson people were going to be furious about "Ozzie costing Gavin the no-hitter."

Surprise, surprise. That's exactly what happened.

I'm done for the night.


Swisher, Quentin and Dye are SOLID outfielders. Very few analysts would say that's more than an "acceptable" defense.

Dye, particularly, should be replaced in late innings. At the very least there ought to have been that gesture. It's not even about Anderson for me, since I'm not going to claim he "would have made that catch" (though I suspect he probably would have).

It's just mind-boggling why Ozzie wouldn't put the absolute best defense available to protect a no-hitter, especially since, as you pointed out yourself, the game was more or less out of reach

Tell your "sports department" that as soon as Ozzie stops making ridiculously illogical lineup decisions, there won't be any complaints from "the usual cast of characters"

Frontman
05-07-2008, 12:51 AM
Swisher, Quentin and Dye are SOLID outfielders. Very few analysts would say that's more than an "acceptable" defense.

Dye, particularly, should be replaced in late innings. At the very least there ought to have been that gesture. It's not even about Anderson for me, since I'm not going to claim he "would have made that catch" (though I suspect he probably would have).

It's just mind-boggling why Ozzie wouldn't put the absolute best defense available to protect a no-hitter, especially since, as you pointed out yourself, the game was more or less out of reach

Because Ozzie hates Floyd more than Anderson.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:53 AM
Because Ozzie hates Floyd more than Anderson.

TEAL!

I just think it didn't occur to Ozzie to change the defense.

Which is too bad for Gavin, who pitched his butt off :shrug:

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:53 AM
I think we have a very good defensive team. We had a very good defensive team behind Gavin for the ninth inning, just as we did for the first eight innings.

I don't see what the problem is. Quentin, Swisher, Dye: All good outfielders. No need to make a change.

But, of course, we have the same cast of characters here boo-hoo-hooing about Ozzie's supposed grudge against Brian Anderson. It's so predictable. As soon as the game ended tonight, everyone in this sports department immediately started making wisecracks about how the Anderson people were going to be furious about "Ozzie costing Gavin the no-hitter."

Surprise, surprise. That's exactly what happened.

I'm done for the night.

I see one good outfielder. Swisher is merely adequate at that position. Dye is straight up below average.

Hey, if you don't want to hear negative analysis, don't be a White Sox fan, and especially don't post on the internet. You really don't seem to understand baseball anyway.

Frontman
05-07-2008, 12:55 AM
I see one good outfielder. Swisher is merely adequate at that position. Dye is straight up below average.

Hey, if you don't want to hear negative analysis, don't be a White Sox fan, and especially don't post on the internet. You really don't seem to understand baseball anyway.

Pot, meet Kettle.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:57 AM
Pot, meet Kettle.

Meet other kettle....

Elephant
05-07-2008, 12:57 AM
TEAL!

I just think it didn't occur to Ozzie to change the defense.

Which is too bad for Gavin, who pitched his butt off :shrug:

It doesn't have anything to do with BA other than the fact that HIS BEST ASSET TO THIS TEAM IS HIS SUPERIOR DEFENSE IN CENTER FIELD SO IF HE'S NOT OUT THERE TO PROTECT A NO HITTER THAN WHY THE HOLY HELL IS HE EVEN ON THE TEAM?

But again, sorry for knowing what I'm talking about just because what someone thought would be brought up, was, and therefore must be wrong.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:58 AM
It doesn't have anything to do with BA other than the fact that HIS BEST ASSET TO THIS TEAM IS HIS SUPERIOR DEFENSE IN CENTER FIELD SO IF HE'S NOT OUT THERE TO PROTECT A NO HITTER THAN WHY THE HOLY HELL IS HE EVEN ON THE TEAM?

But again, sorry for knowing what I'm talking about just because what someone thought would be brought up, was, and therefore must be wrong.

The only argument I've heard against this is that a no-hitter isn't all that important in a 7-1 game or something.

I don't really get that one.

Frontman
05-07-2008, 01:00 AM
It doesn't have anything to do with BA other than the fact that HIS BEST ASSET TO THIS TEAM IS HIS SUPERIOR DEFENSE IN CENTER FIELD SO IF HE'S NOT OUT THERE TO PROTECT A NO HITTER THAN WHY THE HOLY HELL IS HE EVEN ON THE TEAM?

But again, sorry for knowing what I'm talking about just because what someone thought would be brought up, was, and therefore must be wrong.


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/11701abf-ad45-4e00-957b-8a3b85de770e.hmedium.jpg
"Asked and answered your honor."

Elephant
05-07-2008, 01:02 AM
How did Sox fans get this reputation of being knowledgeable? I'm not seeing it.

Nellie_Fox
05-07-2008, 01:03 AM
Ozzie ****ed that up for Gavin. Anderson catches that ball without so much as a slide.....Swish had a terrible jump.

Where the Hell was Brian? How does he sit on the bench in the ninth?
Our best defensive outfielder, and he isn't in the game to try to save that No Hitter. Swisher should have been in right, and Quentin in Left.
B. A. might have had that ball.
Anderson wouldn't have even had to dive for it.

Ozzie cost him the no hitter, plain and simple. Go ahead and believe what you want.

Why is BA even on the team? I KNEW I'd come in here tonight and find these type of posts. That ball was slicing away from Swisher. You don't know that Anderson would have gotten to it; he might have been frozen until he picked up the slice as well.

But I supposed he could have done like Superman always did, which was fly around the world, east to west, at super speed, to go back in time and catch the ball. After all, his is Brian Anderson.

Frontman
05-07-2008, 01:05 AM
How did Sox fans get this reputation of being knowledgeable? I'm not seeing it.

We were doing great, then the intelligence level of the board dropped recently.

Probably is the newer members dragging it down.

Nellie_Fox
05-07-2008, 01:05 AM
Everybody, knock of the personal attacks.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:06 AM
I KNEW I'd come in here tonight and find these type of posts. That ball was slicing away from Swisher. You don't know that Anderson would have gotten to it; he might have been frozen until he picked up the slice as well.

But I supposed he could have done like Superman always did, which was fly around the world, east to west, at super speed, to go back in time and catch the ball. After all, his is Brian Anderson.

He certainly would have been more likely to catch it.

It's impossible to say with any degree of certainty whether he would have. Who knows where he would have been playing, whether he would have got a good jump, etc, but consistently, BA has had better range than Swisher, and this is a ball that Swisher barely missed.

:shrug:

Frontman
05-07-2008, 01:07 AM
He certainly would have been more likely to catch it.

It's impossible to say with any degree of certainty whether he would have. Who knows where he would have been playing, whether he would have got a good jump, etc, but consistently, BA has had better range than Swisher, and this is a ball that Swisher barely missed.

:shrug:

Barely? He layed out fully and still was a good yard or two away, and even if he was closer; there is nothing to say he'd get the glove up in time.

It's schmantics, and as Nellie said; this is going to go ugly sooner rather than later.

Sorry Nellie.

DumpJerry
05-07-2008, 01:09 AM
I KNEW I'd come in here tonight and find these type of posts. That ball was slicing away from Swisher. You don't know that Anderson would have gotten to it; he might have been frozen until he picked up the slice as well.
I know this won't shut up the FOBA crowd, but I was sitting in 115 which is on a direct line from where the ball fell (if you drew a line from where the ball fell to my seat, it would be perpendicular to the LF wall). I was able to see where Quentin and Swisher were when the hit dropped. Nobody, I mean NOBODY, playing Center or Left would have gotten that ball playing where they were positioned. Not Willie Mays, not Torii Hunter. Not even Aaron Rowand.

It was not a cheap hit.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:10 AM
Barely? He layed out fully and still was a good yard or two away, and even if he was closer; there is nothing to say he'd get the glove up in time.



You're right--there's nothing to say he WOULD. But who would have a better opportunity to make the play?

Of course, this is assuming BA wasn't busy scoping babes or beating up Ozney to make a stab at it :shrug:

Frontman
05-07-2008, 01:12 AM
And the simple fact that Mauer won the batting title not too long ago makes it a bit easier to handle the hit getting through. If it was Gerald Laird last year? This board would of shut down in frustration.

jabrch
05-07-2008, 01:12 AM
I know this won't shut up the FOBA crowd, but I was sitting in 115 which is on a direct line from where the ball fell (if you drew a line from where the ball fell to my seat, it would be perpendicular to the LF wall). I was able to see where Quentin and Swisher were when the hit dropped. Nobody, I mean NOBODY, playing Center or Left would have gotten that ball playing where they were positioned. Not Willie Mays, not Torii Hunter. Not even Aaron Rowand.


I don't disagree with you...but more importantly, I don't care. I'm glad to see Gavin look good. No-Nos are nice - but wins are much better. I'm not shocked to see some of the usual suspects complaining about crap. But I don't care. I'm glad to see hitters hitting and pitchers pitching. I hope we keep this up!

Elephant
05-07-2008, 01:12 AM
I KNEW I'd come in here tonight and find these type of posts.

Probably because it was such an obviously bad managerial decision.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 01:15 AM
It's schmantics, and as Nellie said; this is going to go ugly sooner rather than later.



As long as people who don't know baseball continue to post in it, yeah, probably.

You don't think BA has a yard of range on Swisher? Please.

Frontman
05-07-2008, 01:16 AM
As long as people who don't know baseball continue to post in it, yeah, probably.

You don't think BA has a yard of range on Swisher? Please.

You really don't know when to quit, do you?

Elephant
05-07-2008, 01:20 AM
You really don't know when to quit, do you?

Am I about to get pistol whipped?

Elephant
05-07-2008, 01:24 AM
Okay, to recap, I said it was stupid not to use your CF specialist in a critical defensive situation. The retorts:

- quit complaining
- I KNEW I'd hear this stuff
- FOBA!
- Swisher is not a defensive liability

And I've

- never remotely been a "dark cloud"
- never been whatever "FOBA" means

Looks like we got a lot accomplished. It must be nice to be right in one's own head and never have to listen to reason. I'll continue to keep a positive attitude just because we won, because, as an average slob sitting here on my computer, it means so much that I don't **** up team chemistry with my negative analysis.

:kukoo:

BadBobbyJenks
05-07-2008, 01:24 AM
It is frustrating to see Ozzie continue to not use Brian Anderson in the role he is here for.

I think you treat a no hitter as if the game is a one run game which means Brian should be in center and Swisher in right. I really dont see an argument against that.

We needed the win, but as people have said it would have been nice to see history.

oeo
05-07-2008, 01:33 AM
Where the Hell was Brian? How does he sit on the bench in the ninth?
Our best defensive outfielder, and he isn't in the game to try to save that No Hitter. Swisher should have been in right, and Quentin in Left.
B. A. might have had that ball.

Brian is a good centerfielder, but Superman he is not.

oeo
05-07-2008, 01:45 AM
It is frustrating to see Ozzie continue to not use Brian Anderson in the role he is here for.

I think you treat a no hitter as if the game is a one run game which means Brian should be in center and Swisher in right. I really dont see an argument against that.

He should have, but Brian isn't catching that ball either. Mauer hit the ball in the right spot...let's get over it.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 01:51 AM
Brian is a good centerfielder, but Superman he is not.

That's two Superman references now. Why does it take Superman to catch that ball? Because a left fielder who got a bad jump had to full-out dive to come within 5 feet of it?

WhiteSox5187
05-07-2008, 01:52 AM
I haven't been here THAT long but I've posted in a number of post game threads and I don't think I've ever seen THIS much animosity in a post game thread after a WIN! Jesus Christ!

doublem23
05-07-2008, 02:04 AM
Rock out everyone. Argue about Ozzie, Brian, and Swisher all you like, keep the name-calling at a minimum.

BadBobbyJenks
05-07-2008, 02:08 AM
He should have, but Brian isn't catching that ball either. Mauer hit the ball in the right spot...let's get over it.


This is a bigger issue then the possibility of keeping the no hitter tonight. Ozzie continues to ignore using his best defense out there in the late innings and many of us dont get it.

TDog
05-07-2008, 03:16 AM
Why stop at blaming Ozzie Guillen? Kenny Williams should bear more of the blame. If he had kept Aaron Rowand on the team or signed him during the off-season, Rowand would have caught that ball. In fact, in Floyd's first major league shutout, Aaron Rowand preserved the shutout with a bases-loaded catch on a Xavier Nady drive that became famous because he broke his nose in the process.

As someone who would probably be starting Brian Anderson in place of Nick Swisher, especially with Swisher moved out of the leadoff spot and into the bottom third of the order, I have no problem with leaving Swisher in the game n that situation.

I can see where people would have thought Anderson would have caught the ball. As good as he is in center, he's even better when he's sitting on the bench. I'm surprised people aren't blaming Guillen and his coaches for not positioning the outfield better.

It's Dankerific
05-07-2008, 03:17 AM
I've read all the posts, I like the idea that BA wouldnt have even really needed to catch the ball, just get touch the ball so our hometown scorer could call it an error. Since it would mean free beers for life, I'm sure BA would take the error gladly =)

If you don't believe in jinxes, BA should have been in center. Thats pretty much solid baseball.

I'm a little disappointed that some fans "don't care" that Gavin missed a no hitter. Yes, I love that we won the game. But I damn well do care about a young starter on our team and the confidence (AND ****ING HISTORY) a no hitter would give him. I wish all the possible personal and team accomplishments possible on the members of the White Sox. The cycle, the no no, the perfect game, the shutout, the CG, the consecutive scoreless innings, stealing home, etc. etc. most times, those accomplishments go along with a win.

A no hitter is damn well more impressive than a 500th HR in a lost season, thats for sure.

oeo
05-07-2008, 03:23 AM
I KNEW I'd come in here tonight and find these type of posts. That ball was slicing away from Swisher. You don't know that Anderson would have gotten to it; he might have been frozen until he picked up the slice as well.

Ah...you must not know that Brian Anderson catches everything.

With where Swish was playing (for the pull, slightly), I don't see any centerfielder making that catch. It was hit in the perfect spot...get over it.

doublem23
05-07-2008, 03:42 AM
A no hitter is damn well more impressive than a 500th HR in a lost season, thats for sure.

It's at most, debatable. Even with the Juiced Ball Era inflating home run counts like crazy, there are still only 23 members of the 500-HR club (likely to jump to 25 this year if Manny Ramirez and Gary Sheffield hit 4 and 18 more HRs this year respectively).

In MLB history, there have been 255 no-hitters, 213 if you want to only start at the Modern Era (1900-current). That count doesn't include the 40-50 games that don't count because of shortened innings, or were broken up later in extra innings.

Essentially, for every 500-HR guy, there's 10 no-hitters.

Domeshot17
05-07-2008, 03:42 AM
Well this was a fun 4 pages.

The problem isn't so much the hit but the IDEA of the hit. You have a no hitter, being up 7-1, the win is in the bag, so by protecting the no hitter you are ultimately protecting the win.

Since most people here hate Brian Anderson and won't admit he is the best defensive OF we have had in the last 5 years +, I will use a hypothetical.

Say Fields was up, and Gavin took a no hitter into the 9th. Say Mauer sends a shot down the 3rd base line. Fields dives, but its past him into the corner. How many people would be bitching and hooting and hollering why wasn't Crede at 3rd in the 9th for his DEFENSE. They would say Crede has faster reactions and a better glove, and he comes up with it. If he does or doesn't at this point is completely immaterial. The real point is the best team was not out there protecting both the win and the no hitter.

I don't think Ozzie is a bad manager because he didn't put Brian in. If Mauer gets a little under that ball no one, not 1 person, comments about BA not in. It was a solid shot. It sucked. In hindsight Brian needed to be out there, with Swish in right. The hit may or may not have happened. But it did, we won, and really, does Gavin want to throw his first big league No No in a game he gave up a run?

Lets relish in the fact this is the 2nd time Gavin has flirted with a no hitter after 7 IP. This Kid might just be for real. If you are mad at Ozzie over Brian and not drooling over Danks and Floyd instead, you have to check your priorities.

Domeshot17
05-07-2008, 03:45 AM
It's at most, debatable. Even with the Juiced Ball Era inflating home run counts like crazy, there are still only 23 members of the 500-HR club (likely to jump to 25 this year if Manny Ramirez and Gary Sheffield hit 4 and 18 more HRs this year respectively).

In MLB history, there have been 255 no-hitters, 213 if you want to only start at the Modern Era (1900-current). That count doesn't include the 40-50 games that don't count because of shortened innings, or were broken up later in extra innings.

Essentially, for every 500-HR guy, there's 10 no-hitters.

Its almost impossible to judge a single game record vs a career one. You would have to find out how many games have ever been played, then divide total games into no hitters. Then find out how many hitters ever played, and divide that into the home run club and see which is more rare.

oeo
05-07-2008, 03:47 AM
Since most people here hate Brian Anderson and won't admit he is the best defensive OF we have had in the last 5 years +, I will use a hypothetical.

It's not about 'hating' Brian Anderson...most people will tell you he's without a doubt the best defensive outfielder we have.

That said, he's not a miracle worker. You can't say, BA would catch this, BA would catch that. It was hit in the perfect spot, and that's that.

Domeshot17
05-07-2008, 03:54 AM
It's not about 'hating' Brian Anderson...most people will tell you he's without a doubt the best defensive outfielder we have.

That said, he's not a miracle worker. You can't say, BA would catch this, BA would catch that. It was hit in the perfect spot, and that's that.

I will agree with that, I think that was more aimed at the anti BA crowd saying Swisher is just as good as Anderson. Any team takes Swisher over Anderson all around, but defense only Anderson might be top 10 in the league.

and like I said, this wasn't a blooper. This wasn't even the ball Renteria hit to dye were a better OF might get a better jump. This was a good hit. Maybe he gets it, maybe not, he still threw a hell of a game.

The ANTI-OZZIE crowd is getting bad though, worse than the ANTI-BA. After the game I ran out for Dog Food for my Dogs, and Ranger actually had to hang up on a guy who was argueing is Floyd should have stayed in and finished the game. He said since everyone was booing Ozzie they needed to leave him in for the Crowd. He did not want to listen to the truth that Gavin was gassed, and if Morneau hits a 2 run homer next AB it turns a great game into a good one.
I know we are all on edge because last year sucked, but we aren't even 40 games (or 25%) into the season. There is a lot of baseball left to be played.

Grzegorz
05-07-2008, 05:34 AM
We scored 7 ****ING runs and finally got a win.

That's right; wins are all that matter at this point.

santo=dorf
05-07-2008, 06:31 AM
What's weird is Ozzie used Brian as a defensive replacement in the 8th inning when Mark Buehrle threw his no-hitter. Coincidentally Mark was up by 6 runs at the time.

2007!

turners56
05-07-2008, 07:24 AM
BA probably wouldn't of had that ball either, good jump or no good jump, that ball just kept slicing and slicing and slicing, you can't help it. What mattered was the win, it was great to see JD and Crede attempt for base hits rather than home runs, the Dye single in the 1st and Crede's single in the 2nd were very good signs. Juan Uribe was actually useful and Cabrera proved that he can indeed take more than 10 pitches as a leadoff man. Great game, but we need to take care of business in the next two, a sweep is pretty much necessary here, we need to take revenge for them sweeping us at the Hump Dome.

Ragator43
05-07-2008, 07:29 AM
Last year, I was at the game where Buehrle pitched his no-hitter. Anderson played LF in the late innings because Pods is a defensive liability.


Podsednik never saw the field in Buehrle's no-no. He was sent to the DL two days before. Mackowiak made the start and BA came in later in the game to close it out.

Tragg
05-07-2008, 08:05 AM
How is there a debate? Putting Anderson in there is an obvious move that, to no suprise, our always objective manager failed to make.
Gee, if Anderson would only act appropriately maturely - like Ozzie acts - he might get some playing time.

rdwj
05-07-2008, 08:07 AM
I was a little suprised BA wasn't in the game in the 9th. That being said, I'm not about to call Ozzie a bad manager because of it. Floyd looked excellent again - that's my biggest take-away from the game.

Lillian
05-07-2008, 09:04 AM
The defensive replacement which I suggested when this whole topic got started was directed at getting Dye out of there, as much as it was getting Brian in Center. Dye has been nursing that groin pull, and he simply should not have been in there, no hitter or not. It would have given the team the best defense, and protected Dye's health.

The defensive alignment of Quentin in Right, Anderson in Center and Swisher in Left was what I originally suggested, and I haven't read anything here that gives me pause to rethink that position.

As many have said, this is just a routine managerial move. I love Ozzie, but I just think that it was an oversight. I'll bet he would be the first to admit that he probably should have made the move, if anyone had the nerve to ask him. Or then again maybe he would quote Lou: "Of course I though about it. What da ya think, I'm stupid, or something?"

ebit
05-07-2008, 09:17 AM
Ah...you must not know that Brian Anderson catches everything.

With where Swish was playing (for the pull, slightly), I don't see any centerfielder making that catch. It was hit in the perfect spot...get over it.

Quoted for posterity.

regionsox73
05-07-2008, 09:54 AM
If only the dirty cat would have drank a few more Monsters, played some Megadeth, ridden a dirtbike out to CF, dyed his chest hair blond, THEN he would have caught it.

Red Barchetta
05-07-2008, 10:00 AM
Heck, why stop with Ozzie?! Let's blame KW. If he would have offered more money to Hunter, Hunter would have been in the game and caught the ball.

Jeesh, we won! Finally! We won! That's all that matters.

Our pitching is carrying us and Floyd showed up big time. Good job! Nice try Swish! :smile:

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 10:17 AM
Heck, why stop with Ozzie?! Let's blame KW. If he would have offered more money to Hunter, Hunter would have been in the game and caught the ball.

Jeesh, we won! Finally! We won! That's all that matters.

Our pitching is carrying us and Floyd showed up big time. Good job! Nice try Swish! :smile:


That's ridiculous. Yeah--we won, and that's great.

But to pretend protecting a no-hitter is meaningless, win or not, is pretty silly

spawn
05-07-2008, 10:21 AM
This thread has been a ****ing riot to read. As has been mentioned above, I can't believe the White Sox end a 6 game losing streak, and people are still bitching. Regarding a defensive replacement: I always thought you made a replacement to protect a lead, not a no-hitter. I guess Ozzie should've been a little more clairvoyant, and realized Mauer would hit the ball exactly where he did. But then if that was the case, he could've still kept BA on the bench and positioned Swish or Quentin in that spot to make the catch easily. Good God people, lighten up.

I head Gavin being interviewed after the game by Chuck Garfein. Garfein asked him what he thought after the hit. Floyd's response? "They got a hit. Jenks came in and did a great job. We got the win." Now, before anyone says "of course he said that. He's not going to bitch about it." His body language and the way he answered the question were extremely nonchalant. It's amazing reading these responses and people getting up in arms about Ozzie not putting in BA, when the guy who almost threw the no-hitter wasn't exactly pissed off. This just seems like yet another excuse to bitch about Ozzie. These are probably the same people that were bitching before the season about Gavin even being in the rotation, and now you're pissed because he didn't get the no-no and blame Ozzie for it. Sox fans are one of a kind.

Trav
05-07-2008, 10:27 AM
If only the dirty cat would have drank a few more Monsters, played some Megadeth, ridden a dirtbike out to CF, dyed his chest hair blond, THEN he would have caught it.


haha I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Swisher's fake hustle is annoying. I'm not sure how anyone thinks Swisher is a good CF let alone a better one than Anderson, but if Quintin had not impressed the way he has I am sure Swisher would have moved to left and Anderson would play center. At least I would hope so. Either way, Swisher is not terrible in center and Quintin has created a log jam in the OF when you consider Owens in AAA. It is nice to have this problem.

regionsox73
05-07-2008, 10:31 AM
haha I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Swisher's fake hustle is annoying. I'm not sure how anyone thinks Swisher is a good CF let alone a better one than Anderson, but if Quintin had not impressed the way he has I am sure Swisher would have moved to left and Anderson would play center. At least I would hope so. Either way, Swisher is not terrible in center and Quintin has created a log jam in the OF when you consider Owens in AAA. It is nice to have this problem.

I like Quentin because he keeps his mouth shut and plays. Doesn't laugh when he makes a bonehead play. Doesn't show up an umpire. Plus he looks like young Jose Canseco.

markopat
05-07-2008, 10:32 AM
Wow...I haven't been here to read for about 30 days because of the idiotic banter on this site, and this is the first pile of crap that I jump in to...

CYA in another 30 days....maybe.

doublem23
05-07-2008, 10:37 AM
Wow...I haven't been here to read for about 30 days because of the idiotic banter on this site, and this is the first pile of crap that I jump in to...

CYA in another 30 days....maybe.

Thanks for you constructive criticism, but we like our idiotic banter. :tiphat:

balke
05-07-2008, 10:38 AM
What also would've been nice is if Floyd would've not let up a double type hit for the no-hitter. I was a little perplexed to see Anderson wasn't in CF, but that doesn't mean he would've gotten the ball. Doesn't mean Floyd would've had a no hitter either. If it were the very last out of the game, then I'd be a little more upset.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 10:45 AM
Swisher was in CF for the first 8 1/3 of Gavin's outing and there were no hits so why should have Ozzie made a change?

No one knew that Mauer was going to hit it where he did. It's pointless to go on and on about whether or not Brian Anderson would have caught it. Even if I were to say that yeah BA would have caught it, it would change nothing.

So until someone here shares the secret to time travel then I say let's stop the fighting and enjoy a Sox victory. It was 8 excruciating days between victories. :gulp:

Jerko
05-07-2008, 10:45 AM
Honestly I never even thought about bringing BA in.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Honestly I never even thought about bringing BA in.

I didn't either.

Everyone acts as if it was a routine fly ball but it was a gapper that was very well placed for Mauer. It sucked to see the no hitter disappear but maybe that will keep Gavin driven in his next start.

Either way, Sox win!

roylestillman
05-07-2008, 10:49 AM
Thanks for you constructive criticism, but we like our idiotic banter. :tiphat:

Actually I consider it an enormous step forward that Rowand's name wasn't brought up.

MsSoxVixen22
05-07-2008, 10:49 AM
Unbelievable. Some people are never happy. We win the game and Gavin gives an outstanding performance, 2 outs short of a no hitter, and people bitch. If Gavin got lit up last night and we lost, people would bitch. Some people always have to point out the negative. :rolleyes: There was NO reason to boo Ozzie for taking Gavin out and to blame Swisher and say he didn't hustle. If BA was in center when Mauer got that double, he might've missed the catch too! There's no way to know. Gavin has come close to a no hitter twice now. I say, 3rd times a charm. Everyone stop your bitching and take last night for what it was-a great outing by Gavin and a WIN. I swear some Sox fans are never happy no matter who's on the field or what happens.

Jerko
05-07-2008, 10:51 AM
Unbelievable. Some people are never happy. We win the game and Gavin gives an outstanding performance, 2 outs short of a no hitter, and people bitch. If Gavin got lit up last night and we lost, people would bitch. Some people always have to point out the negative. :rolleyes: There was NO reason to boo Ozzie for taking Gavin out and to blame Swisher and say he didn't hustle. If BA was in center when Mauer got that double, he might've missed the catch too! There's no way to know. Gavin has come close to a no hitter twice now. I say, 3rd times a charm. Everyone stop your bitching and take last night for what it was-a great outing by Gavin and a WIN. I swear some Sox fans are never happy no matter who's on the field or what happens.

I feel like I've just been grounded! I wasn't watching the game so I didn't know the pitch count or anything, but after the hit I did say to myself "leave him in Ozzie". I'm just glad they won!

Paulwny
05-07-2008, 11:10 AM
Whether BA catches the ball isn't important. Why Oz didn't put BA in cf and move to Swish to rf is the question. Both cf and rf become stronger defensively.

kittle42
05-07-2008, 11:21 AM
This is perhaps the lamest, most pointless, and ultimately most embarassing thread I've seen since I joined WSI in mid-2003. The Sun-Times' extensive four-article coverage of the blow-up dolls was a better discussion.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 11:23 AM
This is perhaps the lamest, most pointless, and ultimately most embarassing thread I've seen since I joined WSI in mid-2003. The Sun-Times' extensive four-article coverage of the blow-up dolls was a better discussion.

Thanks for sharing!

It's no 300-400 posts correcting people's grammar, but it's a start!

chisoxfanatic
05-07-2008, 11:24 AM
Aaron Rowand would've made the catch!!! :cool:

The trajectory of the ball didn't allow for much time to camp underneath it, so I don't think a defensive substitution would've made much effect on the play. As one of the better hitters in the league the last few years, you had to think that there would've been a huge possibility of Joe Mauer getting a hit there. Securing the no-hitter would've been great; but, hey, he pitched a damn great game!

spawn
05-07-2008, 11:31 AM
Honestly I never even thought about bringing BA in.
If Mauer hits a routine fly ball that is caught, no one mentions Swish being out there.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 11:35 AM
I do not think it makes me a FOBA to have thought, just after Mauer got the hit, that BA would have had a better chance of catching it. But I'll trust Dump's personal live observation over my listening to the game on XM.

Still, I think that with Dye still recovering from a little nagging injury, and given that throughout his career Dye has had many little nagging injuries, and given the decline of Dye's range in the OF, whenever the Sox have a lead in the ninth inning, they ought to go with the best OF defense available. And given who is on this roster, that means BA in CF and Quentin and Swisher in the corners.

chaerulez
05-07-2008, 11:47 AM
A lot of people seem to be missing the point here. The hit itself isn't the issue. Really to me it doesn't matter if the ball was catchable or not, although Swisher was a few feet away after a full dive and he doesn't nearly have the range BA does...

But anyway, the point is the best defensive set up should've been out on the field. Our starters at 3B, SS, and 2B are our best defensive options. I think Swisher should've been moved to RF and BA put in at CF. We don't have anyone at 1B that jumps out defensively that merits Paulie being taken out and we can't put Swisher there because he needs to be in RF.

It's just misusing your personnel, like when BA was told to squeeze with one out...

And for those saying hey at least we got the win, give me a break, who doesn't want to see history?

FedEx227
05-07-2008, 11:58 AM
A lot of people seem to be missing the point here. The hit itself isn't the issue. Really to me it doesn't matter if the ball was catchable or not, although Swisher was a few feet away after a full dive and he doesn't nearly have the range BA does...

But anyway, the point is the best defensive set up should've been out on the field. Our starters at 3B, SS, and 2B are our best defensive options. I think Swisher should've been moved to RF and BA put in at CF. We don't have anyone at 1B that jumps out defensively that merits Paulie being taken out and we can't put Swisher there because he needs to be in RF.

It's just misusing your personnel, like when BA was told to squeeze with one out...

And for those saying hey at least we got the win, give me a break, who doesn't want to see history?

Yeah that's the thing, it doesn't have to be Anderson persay. Like a poster said many pages ago, if Ozuna started the game at 3rd by the 8th and 9th inning you'd about 100% believe Crede would be out there for the ninth. Ditto if Ramirez was at 2B going to Uribe in the late innings.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 11:58 AM
And for those saying hey at least we got the win, give me a break, who doesn't want to see history?

I don't think anyone has said that they didn't want to see history. The point is this, everyone can cry about BA getting into the game until they're blue in the face. But the matter of fact is, the game is over, Floyd pitched a gem and the Sox won.

This argument is moot, but there are people here who want to blame Swish for the no-hitter being lost and it's not fair. That was a well hit ball that fell "where they ain't".

If you guys want BA to play so bad. Go start a picket line in front of Gate 4 and start chanting: BA he's OK, Ozzie please play him today!

Jerko
05-07-2008, 12:00 PM
My god it was 7 to ****in 1. I think we could "put up" with our starting outfield for 3 more outs. Jesus Christ.

FedEx227
05-07-2008, 12:01 PM
My god it was 7 to ****in 1. I think we could "put up" with our starting outfield for 3 more outs. Jesus Christ.

You do realize it was a no-hitter, right? Just making sure. They don't happen all that often and sometimes you'd like to make a little history. Sorry.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 12:01 PM
My god it was 7 to ****in 1. I think we could "put up" with our starting outfield for 3 more outs. Jesus Christ.

The same outfielders that were there for the first 8 1/3 innings of the game too.

You can please some of the people some of the time but never at all at WSI.

spawn
05-07-2008, 12:03 PM
Like a poster said many pages ago, if Ozuna started the game at 3rd by the 8th and 9th inning you'd about 100% believe Crede would be out there for the ninth. Ditto if Ramirez was at 2B going to Uribe in the late innings.
That's because Ozuna is a defensive liabilty at 3rd base, and Ramirez is playintg 2nd base for the first time. Those are obvious defensive replacements. Swisher is not a liability in CF, so there really was no need to remove him. I'm guessing not too many posters here were questioning why Swisher was still in CF until Mauer got the hit.

ondafarm
05-07-2008, 12:04 PM
Do I wish Gavin had gotten his no-hitter? Sure do. Do I think BA might have made that play? Yes, I do. Do I buy the arguement that Dye is gimpy and old and lost a step and that BA has greater range than Swish? Yeah, sure. Do I think Ozzie was purposely saboutaging Gavin's try? Sorry, no. In retrospect, it would have been better to sub BA for Dye and change the fields, but big deal. That's hindsight.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 12:06 PM
Do I think Ozzie was purposely saboutaging Gavin's try? Sorry, no.

I don't think anyone else thinks that, either.

spawn
05-07-2008, 12:08 PM
And for those saying hey at least we got the win, give me a break, who doesn't want to see history?
I saw history with Buehrle's no-no last year. Does it suck that Gavin didn't get one? Yes. Am I happier that we broke a six game losing streak? Most definitely.

SoxfaninLA
05-07-2008, 12:13 PM
I don't think anyone is honestly going to say that Swisher is just as good or a better outfielder than Anderson. Anderson is our best defensive outfielder, no question about that, but Swisher is no butcher out there, he plays a decent outfield. I don't think he takes hits away from the other team but he also doesn't cost the team extra outs like a certain someone we had in CF from time to time in 2006 and 2007. I had TIVOd the game and watched it last night and I don't think anyone gets to that ball, it was just in a perfect spot.

The most important thing here is Floyd has taken 2 no hitters deep into ballgames so far this year and has looked fantastic overall. If we continue to get efforts like this from him and the other guys on the staff we will be right in the thick of this thing in September as long as the bats don't go totally comatose like the last roadtrip.....

Jerko
05-07-2008, 12:14 PM
You do realize it was a no-hitter, right? Just making sure. They don't happen all that often and sometimes you'd like to make a little history. Sorry.

I was responding to posts that said "whenever the sox have the lead in the 9th inning, the best defensive team should take the field". Yeah, can't win without BA in center with a 6 run lead. Yes I wanted to see the no-hitter but this is ridiculous.

TomBradley72
05-07-2008, 12:30 PM
Putting BA in was a 100% "no brainer". 5 run lead, between simply avoiding the big inning and protecting the no hitter...BA goes in to CF, Swisher moves to RF. There's not a single reason you don't make the move.

He's made the move pretty regularly all season...I can't remotely understand why he didn't do it last night.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 12:35 PM
I had TIVOd the game and watched it last night and I don't think anyone gets to that ball, it was just in a perfect spot.

Thank you! :thumbsup:

That's what I thought too. I give Swish kudos for diving even when he knew that he had no chance in hell to get to that one.

Let's just face it, Gavin got beat by a good hitter. Mauer after all did win a batting title. With that said it was still a tremendous outing by him and we should be excited for the next game.

TomBradley72
05-07-2008, 12:36 PM
Whether BA catches the ball isn't important. Why Oz didn't put BA in cf and move to Swish to rf is the question. Both cf and rf become stronger defensively.

If Swisher can get within one of his patented "belly flops" of getting to the ball....I feel pretty good about BA's chances. He's faster, gets better jumps...he may not have caught the ball...but he gives us better range in CF than Swisher does (and Swisher gives us better range in RF than Dye does)...there is ZERO downside and some upside by inserting BA in for the 9th. There's not a single reason you DO NOT make that move in the 9th.

Carolina Kenny
05-07-2008, 12:37 PM
Putting BA in was a 100% "no brainer". 5 run lead, between simply avoiding the big inning and protecting the no hitter...BA goes in to CF, Swisher moves to RF. There's not a single reason you don't make the move.

He's made the move pretty regularly all season...I can't remotely understand why he didn't do it last night.

Same reason as Lou. You don't take your superstar out of the game.

TomBradley72
05-07-2008, 12:40 PM
Same reason as Lou. You don't take your superstar out of the game.

Teal....right?

EndemicSox
05-07-2008, 12:42 PM
A no hitter has a huge element of luck involved, and the defense behind the pitcher certainly deserves some props for the support given to Gavin. While the pitcher deserves the vast majority of the praise, the starting defense earned the right to close that out as well...

TDog
05-07-2008, 12:43 PM
I once read a story about Don Larsen's perfect game in the 1956 World Series. Mickey Mantle reportedly in the ninth inning was thinking to himself, "Please don't hit it to me." At least that didn't seem to be Nick Swisher's attitude last night.

I'm no fan of Nick Swisher, but he isn't Pablo Ozuna on defense. It's too bad Gavin Floyd gave up a deep drive in the gap that Swisher couldn't get too. It's too bad Carlos Quentin dropped a fly ball earlier in the game to set up the first run. Sarcastically, I'll say it's even too bad that ESPN jinxed it by talking about it.

It's too bad this seems to be the hot WSI thread since last night.

BadBobbyJenks
05-07-2008, 12:45 PM
Everyone acts as if it was a routine fly ball but it was a gapper that was very well placed for Mauer. It sucked to see the no hitter disappear but maybe that will keep Gavin driven in his next start.

Either way, Sox win!
Not one person has said it was a routine flyball. Why are people turning this into a different argument?

Unbelievable. Some people are never happy. We win the game and Gavin gives an outstanding performance, 2 outs short of a no hitter, and people bitch. Everyone stop your bitching and take last night for what it was-a great outing by Gavin and a WIN. I swear some Sox fans are never happy no matter who's on the field or what happens.

Nobody here is not happy about Gavin continuing to throw the ball real well. Some of us are just confused why BA was not in there. This is coming from an Ozzie defender and a guy who has thrown Brian under the bus quite a few times mind you.

If Mauer hits a routine fly ball that is caught, no one mentions Swish being out there.
I cant imagine the witch hunt that would follow if that did happen. It Doesn't change the fact that it was the smart baseball move that should have been made, but wasnt. Like I said before I would have treated a no hitter like a run one ball game which means Brian should be in center and Dye out every single time.

Carolina Kenny
05-07-2008, 12:51 PM
No teal. You never take your superstar out of the game.

Swisher is our superstar in center and you just don't move him around for the ninth inning. Your dealing with actual PEOPLE here, not a video game.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:52 PM
No teal. You never take your superstar out of the game.

Swisher is our superstar in center and you just don't move him around for the ninth inning. Your dealing with actual PEOPLE here, not a video game.

Who the **** said anything about taking him out?

People who wanted BA in wanted DYE taken out.

PS: Swisher isn't exactly putting up superstar numbers or playing superstar defense, so I'm not exactly sure how HE'S our superstar :shrug:

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:54 PM
I was responding to posts that said "whenever the sox have the lead in the 9th inning, the best defensive team should take the field". Yeah, can't win without BA in center with a 6 run lead. Yes I wanted to see the no-hitter but this is ridiculous.

Who's saying that? Point out one person who has said that.

People are upset because Ozzie doesn't put the best defensive unit on the field WHEN IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE GOOD DEFENSE OUT THERE

i.e.: when it is a CLOSE game or when we have a...you know...NO HITTER GOING

Carolina Kenny
05-07-2008, 12:58 PM
Who's saying that? Point out one person who has said that.

People are upset because Ozzie doesn't put the best defensive unit on the field WHEN IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE GOOD DEFENSE OUT THERE

i.e.: when it is a CLOSE game or when we have a...you know...NO HITTER GOING

A no hitter is more important to the fans than to the team. If a no-hitter occurs great, but you don't make any defensive moves than you would with any other six run lead.

the problem with the "put your best defensive team" crowd in this case is that they are thinking like fans and not like a MLB manager.

Iwritecode
05-07-2008, 12:59 PM
Who's saying that? Point out one person who has said that.

People are upset because Ozzie doesn't put the best defensive unit on the field WHEN IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE GOOD DEFENSE OUT THERE

i.e.: when it is a CLOSE game or when we have a...you know...NO HITTER GOING

I do not think it makes me a FOBA to have thought, just after Mauer got the hit, that BA would have had a better chance of catching it. But I'll trust Dump's personal live observation over my listening to the game on XM.

Still, I think that with Dye still recovering from a little nagging injury, and given that throughout his career Dye has had many little nagging injuries, and given the decline of Dye's range in the OF, whenever the Sox have a lead in the ninth inning, they ought to go with the best OF defense available. And given who is on this roster, that means BA in CF and Quentin and Swisher in the corners.

:shrug:

champagne030
05-07-2008, 01:01 PM
A no hitter is more important to the fans than to the team. If a no-hitter occurs great, but you don't make any defensive moves than you would with any other six run lead.

the problem with the "put your best defensive team" crowd in this case is that they are thinking like fans and not like a MLB manager.

So you were complaining about Ozzie during Buehrle's no hitter that he substituted Anderson into the game for defensive purposes and had a six run lead?

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
Not one person has said it was a routine flyball. Why are people turning this into a different argument?

If you read what I wrote, I said "people here act like it was a routine fly" Although no one has said it, posters here are acting as if Swish botched a play that anyone could make. But no one could have gotten that ball.

It's a shame that the game has been over for more than 12 hours and people are still harping about whether or not Ozzie made a mistake by not bringing BA in the game.

To quote (paraphrase) Lou Brown in Major League II:

"We won today, and if we win tomorrow that's 2 in a row. It's called a winning streak it has happened before."

BadBobbyJenks
05-07-2008, 01:09 PM
If you read what I wrote, I said "people here act like it was a routine fly" Although no one has said it, posters here are acting as if Swish botched a play that anyone could make. But no one could have gotten that ball.

It's a shame that the game has been over for more than 12 hours and people are still harping about whether or not Ozzie made a mistake by not bringing BA in the game.


I can only speak for myself, but I imagine many posters share my feelings that they are dissapointed the best defense was not out there to protect the no hitter. BUT more importantly it is a bigger picture problem, Ozzie has continually chose to ignore this defensive replacement changes late in games and I dont understand why.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:11 PM
If you read what I wrote, I said "people here act like it was a routine fly" Although no one has said it, posters here are acting as if Swish botched a play that anyone could make. But no one could have gotten that ball.

It's a shame that the game has been over for more than 12 hours and people are still harping about whether or not Ozzie made a mistake by not bringing BA in the game.

To quote (paraphrase) Lou Brown in Major League II:

"We won today, and if we win tomorrow that's 2 in a row. It's called a winning streak it has happened before."

Except no one is acting like that. People are upset because

a.) Gavin's no-hitter was broken up by a defensive non-play (makeable or not)

b.) that calls attention to the fact that Ozzie did not have the best defensive unit on the field

c.) that causes people to question WHY Ozzie did not have the best defensive unit on the field when a no-hitter is at stake.

I doubt anyone here really believes BA WOULD have made that play. But no one can dispute that BA WOULD HAVE HAD A BETTER CHANCE TO make that play. Which brings us back to the main question:

Why didn't Ozzie put the best defense on the field with a no-hitter on the line?

a:
:ozzie:
"Because I make the ****ing lineups"
:shrug:

spawn
05-07-2008, 01:14 PM
I can't believe people are still bitching about a game the Sox won.

Why didn't Ozzie put the best defense on the field with a no-hitter on the line?

Because he cared more for winning the game than the no-hitter? With a 6-run lead, there's really no need to make defensive changes. He's done it so far this season and no one has bitched about it. Now all of a sudden, it's an issue. :shrug:

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:14 PM
I can't believe people are still bitching about a game the Sox won.

You mean the first game we won in 7 games, and a game in which our manager--the manager of a team that has been quite bad for quite some time now--made a characteristically bad personnel decision?

Yeah, I'm not sure why everyone wouldn't be all sunshine and roses

spawn
05-07-2008, 01:17 PM
You mean the first game we won in 7 games, and a game in which our manager--the manager of a team that has been quite bad for quite some time now--made a characteristically bad personnel decision?

A bad decision by who's account? Yours? Please. :rolleyes:

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:19 PM
A bad decision by who's account? Yours? Please. :rolleyes:

Mine and the other people in this thread upset by the decision.

But you don't think it was a bad decision not to put the best defensive unit out in the 9th during a no-hit bid, so apparently my opinion (one shared by quite a few people) is irrelevent.

Especially since we got the win! Never mind that excepting this game we've scored 9 runs in the past 6 games! Never mind that Ozzie constantly misuses the bullpen and bench! WE WON ONE GAME THIS WEEK!

Time to celebrate!!!:bandance:

spawn
05-07-2008, 01:21 PM
Mine and the other people in this thread upset by the decision.

But you don't think it was a bad decision not to put the best defensive unit out in the 9th during a no-hit bid, so apparently my opinion (one shared by quite a few people) is irrelevent.

Especially since we got the win! Never mind that excepting this game we've scored 9 runs in the past 6 games! Never mind that Ozzie constantly misuses the bullpen and bench! WE WON ONE GAME THIS WEEK!

Time to celebrate!!!:bandance:
Glad we got that straightened out. :wink:

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:22 PM
Glad we got that straightened out. :wink:

:gulp:

kobo
05-07-2008, 01:24 PM
We can debate forever on whether BA would have caught the ball. I don't think it's a given he would have considering how Swisher and Q were positioned at the time. Mauer hit it in the place nobody could get to, have to give him props for that.

The big picture here is that the Sox offense finally came alive last night, and Gavin pitched a hell of a game. As the game went on he got better, and once he found his curve he was unstoppable. It was a great team win last night, and that's what we should be focusing on.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 01:25 PM
I'm over the loss of the no-hitter. I'm also over Ozzie's bone-headed move not to put BA in CF and Swisher in RF and remove Dye in the ninth inning to protect a lead with the best defense on the field. Quite frankly I'm accustomed to Ozzie making dumb moves from time to time; just like I'm accustomed to him making great moves from time to time, too.

Most of all, I'm glad the Sox won!

Stepping outside of myself and trying to view from an "objective" perspective, this is just another opportunity for those who like BA, and those who hate BA and/or hate those who like him, to continue their two-year war.

ondafarm
05-07-2008, 01:31 PM
No teal. You never take your superstar out of the game.

Swisher is our superstar in center and you just don't move him around for the ninth inning. Your dealing with actual PEOPLE here, not a video game.

Where are the teal police when you need them?

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:32 PM
I'm over the loss of the no-hitter. I'm also over Ozzie's bone-headed move not to put BA in CF and Swisher in RF and remove Dye in the ninth inning to protect a lead with the best defense on the field. Quite frankly I'm accustomed to Ozzie making dumb moves from time to time; just like I'm accustomed to him making great moves from time to time, too.

Most of all, I'm glad the Sox won!

Stepping outside of myself and trying to view from an "objective" perspective, this is just another opportunity for those who like BA, and those who hate BA and/or hate those who like him, to continue their two-year war.

you've got me all wrong.

I dont' particularly like BA, I just hate Ozzie!

SoxfaninLA
05-07-2008, 01:33 PM
The big picture here is that the Sox offense finally came alive last night, and Gavin pitched a hell of a game. As the game went on he got better, and once he found his curve he was unstoppable. It was a great team win last night, and that's what we should be focusing on.

Exactly.

I knew the minute that ball fell that some people were going to to nuts that Anderson was not put in the game. I am indifferent to Anderson, I don't hate him and I don't think he is a great young player who hasn't succeded purely because of some personal vendetta Guillen has against him because Anderon ran over his dog, beat up his kid, slashed Ozzie's tires, etc.

I've been closely following the Sox since about 1990, and for the life of me I can't ever remember a player that so divided a fanbase like Brian Anderson does. The most important thing about last night is that we won the game and broke a losing streak that was really getting unbearable to watch. Here is to making it 2 in a row tonight :gulp:

doublem23
05-07-2008, 01:33 PM
Stepping outside of myself and trying to view from an "objective" perspective, this is just another opportunity for those who like BA, and those who hate BA and/or hate those who like him, to continue their two-year war.

Pretty much. This BA thing is almost as good as the old Clayton/Valentin arguments we used to have around here. Man, those were epic.

Heffalump
05-07-2008, 01:34 PM
Same reason as Lou. You don't take your superstar out of the game.

I sincerely hope you meant to use Teal here.

Jerko
05-07-2008, 01:35 PM
This is a bigger issue then the possibility of keeping the no hitter tonight. Ozzie continues to ignore using his best defense out there in the late innings and many of us dont get it.


IWC also pointed out a post that backs up what I said earlier. I don't make **** up and I wasn't just talking about last night. I don't think "defensive replacements in a Sox blowout for one inning" is going to be the downfall of this team. Should BA have been out there yesterday? Probably. Did I want to see the no hitter? Yes I did. Am I more happy with a win? Yes I am.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:36 PM
Pretty much. This BA thing is almost as good as the old Clayton/Valentin arguments we used to have around here. Man, those were epic.

But here's the thing about those:

Clayton was a ****ty ball player and had no business being on a baseball field :shrug:

ChiSoxFan35
05-07-2008, 01:38 PM
Not sure what this adds to the discussion.

Do you care to take a stab at the actual issue, which is: why wasn't the best defense on the field for the chance for Gavin to be a part of history?

It's real cute and all to act like a no-hitter doesn't mean anything and that there's no reason to play for it "since it's a 7-1 game" but it's pretty clear that's bull****

It doesn't mean ****. Oh man, it would've been awesome to hear Hawk screaming like a moron! Cliche, but all that matters is the damn win. Last year was ****ing embarrassing, it's too bad management was able to spin some 'positive moments' with these dumb milestones. Especially a no-hitter, plenty of irrelevant guys have had one (or maybe we should start counting the guys who lose it after 8 and 2/3). Lead the league in ERA or something, help the team long-term instead of being a one hit wonder. I'm sure Floyd isn't crying too much, he's cost the team plenty of wins, it balances out

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 01:40 PM
It doesn't mean ****. Oh man, it would've been awesome to hear Hawk screaming like a moron! Cliche, but all that matters is the damn win. Last year was ****ing embarrassing, it's too bad management was able to spin some 'positive moments' with these dumb milestones. Especially a no-hitter, plenty of irrelevant guys have had one (or maybe we should start counting the guys who lose it after 8 and 2/3). Lead the league in ERA or something, help the team long-term instead of being a one hit wonder. I'm sure Floyd isn't crying too much, he's cost the team plenty of wins, it balances out

Here's the thing: it's not like it was either "get a no-hitter or a win". We could have done both. It's not like anyone's advocating that we should have HURT OUR CHANCES for a win for the chance at a no-no. Or even hurt our chances for future wins. The win is the #1 priority, yes, but as so many people have pointed out (somehow to defend Ozzie's decision) the win was already in hand. Why not take your best shot at the ****ing no-hitter:rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 01:41 PM
Pretty much. This BA thing is almost as good as the old Clayton/Valentin arguments we used to have around here. Man, those were epic.

But here's the thing about those:

Clayton was a ****ty ball player and had no business being on a baseball field :shrug:

Paul Konerko said Clayton was the best shortstop with whom he had ever played! What a stupid-head!
:tongue:

doublem23
05-07-2008, 01:42 PM
Clayton was a ****ty ball player and had no business being on a baseball field :shrug:


http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_435042.jpg
I resemble that remark.

:wink:

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 01:44 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_435042.jpg
I resemble that remark.

:wink:

At least he takes better routes than "Crash." :tongue:

doublem23
05-07-2008, 01:46 PM
At least he takes better routes than "Crash." :tongue:

:cool:

Royce Clayton? Aaron Rowand? Brian Anderson? We're tearing off a few years worth of scabs right now.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 01:49 PM
:cool:

Royce Clayton? Aaron Rowand? Brian Anderson? We're tearing off a few years worth of scabs right now.

Yeah, and the Big Hurt hits better when he plays the field, and GIDPK should be benched because he's having a terrible year, and Daubach should DH.
:tongue:

rdwj
05-07-2008, 01:50 PM
You know, part of me is sort of glad BA wasn't out there. If he would have missed that ball, this board would be lit up with at least twice the nonsense that it is now.

This is really starting to get silly. A no-hitter gets us no closer to the World Series than we are right now. Get over it! If I had a choice between a no-hitter and a couple more wins, I'd take the wins easy.

ChiSoxFan35
05-07-2008, 01:54 PM
Here's the thing: it's not like it was either "get a no-hitter or a win". We could have done both. It's not like anyone's advocating that we should have HURT OUR CHANCES for a win for the chance at a no-no. Or even hurt our chances for future wins. The win is the #1 priority, yes, but as so many people have pointed out (somehow to defend Ozzie's decision) the win was already in hand. Why not take your best shot at the ****ing no-hitter:rolleyes:

So what's my response to you supposed to be? Why not take your best shot at ****ing manager? Because your last sentence sounds just as dumb as that

Yeah, if you care that much about a no-hitter, then you're probably orgasming about the second guessing. I don't see how Gavin Floyd's life changes either way. For all the crap on this site about Red Sox fans, people hardly overreacted when their rookie threw one and it was like his second ****ing start.

doublem23
05-07-2008, 01:59 PM
Yeah, if you care that much about a no-hitter, then you're probably orgasming about the second guessing. I don't see how Gavin Floyd's life changes either way. For all the crap on this site about Red Sox fans, people hardly overreacted when their rookie threw one and it was like his second ****ing start.

:rolling:

Sure they didn't. Sure they didn't.

I'm not even on the "Ozzie should have played BA in center field," but even I can appreciate how special a no-hitter is.

This is from Deadspin (http://deadspin.com/sports/baseball/theres-nothing-quite-like-a-no-hitter-253571.php), talking about Mark Buehrle's no-hitter last year. I couldn't agree with it more:

We love no-hitters; we're kind of obsessed with them, actually. It's one of the reasons we love baseball more than any other sport; any time you show up at a game, there's a chance you'll see one, which is their appeal. They're rare enough to be spectacular, but they're common enough that they seem conceivable. The otherwise forgettable names of Bud Smith and Jose Jimenez are chiseled into our brain solely because they threw no-hitters. We've never seen a no-hitter in person, but every game we attend, we let out a silent sigh of disappointment whenever both teams have a hit. Not tonight ... maybe next time.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 02:02 PM
So what's my response to you supposed to be? Why not take your best shot at ****ing manager? Because your last sentence sounds just as dumb as that

Yeah, if you care that much about a no-hitter, then you're probably orgasming about the second guessing. I don't see how Gavin Floyd's life changes either way. For all the crap on this site about Red Sox fans, people hardly overreacted when their rookie threw one and it was like his second ****ing start.

your what hurts?

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 02:03 PM
Yeah, and the Big Hurt hits better when he plays the field, and GIDPK should be benched because he's having a terrible year, and Daubach should DH.
:tongue:

I heard Konerko has a bad hip

bnech him

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 02:04 PM
You know, part of me is sort of glad BA wasn't out there. If he would have missed that ball, this board would be lit up with at least twice the nonsense that it is now.

This is really starting to get silly. A no-hitter gets us no closer to the World Series than we are right now. Get over it! If I had a choice between a no-hitter and a couple more wins, I'd take the wins easy.

But it doesn't get us any further, either. And since we're almst certainly not going to the Series this year, I'll take a no-hitter...

TDog
05-07-2008, 02:04 PM
...
It's a shame that the game has been over for more than 12 hours and people are still harping about whether or not Ozzie made a mistake by not bringing BA in the game. ...

Imagine how upset people would be if it had taken the Sox until the ninth inning to get a hit against the Twins.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 02:05 PM
bnech him

Bench him, too. :tongue:

kittle42
05-07-2008, 02:50 PM
But it doesn't get us any further, either. And since we're almst certainly not going to the Series this year, I'll take a no-hitter...

Hey, I found something we can agree about! :tongue:

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 02:51 PM
Imagine how upset people would be if it had taken the Sox until the ninth inning to get a hit against the Twins.

They would be demanding that Greg Walker be sent to the guillotine before the start of the game.

Like I said before. You can please some of the people some of the time but never at all at WSI.

It's Dankerific
05-07-2008, 02:56 PM
It makes me wonder about the supreme hate of some people that they can't see the reasoning of putting your best defense on the field to protect a no hitter in the ninth (if you don't believe in jinxes, and as has been pointed out, BA came in during Mark's no no). Even some people who have skewered mr. BA have said "its a no doubter he should be in there." I respect them for speaking up.

That said, the main issue isn't would BA have caught the ball, but why not put the best defense on the field, just in case the difference between swish and BA or swish and dye would have been the difference. if it falls in front of BA, then we know we could do no more.

Reiterated point : we just needed BA to get a glove on it and take the hometown error for Gavin

Second point : BA hates listening to coaches. 10-1 he doesnt listen when they tell him to position himself for the pull. Lot less space to run that one down, if some hunny wasn't screamin' for him from the bleachers.

Elephant
05-07-2008, 02:57 PM
I doubt anyone here really believes BA WOULD have made that play. But no one can dispute that BA WOULD HAVE HAD A BETTER CHANCE TO make that play. Which brings us back to the main question:



I am saying BA would have made that catch. Barring a bad read on his part, he would've gotten it standing.

The main issue is that Ozzie is an idiot for not using a guy whose sole purpose was screaming for attention at that time. What adds salt to the wound is that BA likely would have caught the damn ball. And I don't buy the "we'll never know," bull****. IF BA gets a BA jump, it's out number 2.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 02:58 PM
I am saying BA would have made that catch. Barring a bad read on his part, he would've gotten it standing.

I take it back.

Some people believe BA WOULD have made that catch. :shrug:

IlliniSox4Life
05-07-2008, 03:14 PM
In the grand scheme of things, it's not a huge deal, but this is what I don't get:


Doesn't having the best defense in the field in the 9th with a 6 run lead, no-hitter or not, give us the best chance to with the game? Regardless of the no-hitter, why wasn't BA put out there?

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 04:04 PM
http://images.zap2it.com/20040709/davidletterman_240_002.jpg

This is from the home office in Butte, MT

Top Ten Reasons Why BA was not playing in the 9th inning of last night's game

10. Ozzie was too busy playing his copy of Grand Theft Auto IV

9. Harold Baines was talking Ozzie's ear off.

8. Ozzie was about to win his game of "Operation" against Herm Schneider.

7. Ozzie was in another part of the park trying to fix PA system.

6. Greg Walker was showing Ozzie his newest book "Hitting For Dummies"

5. Ozzie was too distraught over having the losing pizza in the Connie's pizza race.

4. Ozzie wanted to hear Chris Rongey take more stupid calls on the post game show.

3. Ozzie was too busy calling his family so they could tune in the game to see Gavin pitch a no-hitter.

2. Brian Anderson has no incriminating pictures of Ozzie.

1. Ozzie wanted to infuriate the FOBA!


Lighten up folks! Sox are 1 game out of first.

turners56
05-07-2008, 04:45 PM
http://images.zap2it.com/20040709/davidletterman_240_002.jpg

This is from the home office in Butte, MT

Top Ten Reasons Why BA was not playing in the 9th inning of last night's game

10. Ozzie was too busy playing his copy of Grand Theft Auto IV

9. Harold Baines was talking Ozzie's ear off.

8. Ozzie was about to win his game of "Operation" against Herm Schneider.

7. Ozzie was in another part of the park trying to fix PA system.

6. Greg Walker was showing Ozzie his newest book "Hitting For Dummies"

5. Ozzie was too distraught over having the losing pizza in the Connie's pizza race.

4. Ozzie wanted to hear Chris Rongey take more stupid calls on the post game show.

3. Ozzie was too busy calling his family so they could tune in the game to see Gavin pitch a no-hitter.

2. Brian Anderson has no incriminating pictures of Ozzie.

1. Ozzie wanted to infuriate the FOBA!


Lighten up folks! Sox are 1 game out of first.

xD

russ99
05-07-2008, 04:49 PM
I am saying BA would have made that catch. Barring a bad read on his part, he would've gotten it standing.

The main issue is that Ozzie is an idiot for not using a guy whose sole purpose was screaming for attention at that time. What adds salt to the wound is that BA likely would have caught the damn ball. And I don't buy the "we'll never know," bull****. IF BA gets a BA jump, it's out number 2.

You're obviously not watching the same player I am. Anderson has good range but by no means is he a burner. His arm and throwing accuracy are the real reasons he would get in as a defensive replacement. If he is so fast, where are the SB's throughout his career? The most he's had is 10 his first year in the minors...

Case in point is the catch Brian made this year vs. Detroit. He was much closer to that ball than he would have been in last night's play, and only a dive enabled him make that catch. He would have had to dive for this one as well, and while he would have gotten closer than Swisher going all-out, odds are it would have fallen in too. Lofton in his prime is the only one I can think of who'd make that play standing up.

Jerry Owens, positioned properly, would be the only Sox player with foot speed enough to have a shot at it, but only a shot as the ball was tailing away. IMO: Rowand wouldn't have gotten it either.

champagne030
05-07-2008, 05:09 PM
You're obviously not watching the same player I am. Anderson has good range but by no means is he a burner. His arm and throwing accuracy are the real reasons he would get in as a defensive replacement. If he is so fast, where are the SB's throughout his career? The most he's had is 10 his first year in the minors...

Case in point is the catch Brian made this year vs. Detroit. He was much closer to that ball than he would have been in last night's play, and only a dive enabled him make that catch. He would have had to dive for this one as well, and while he would have gotten closer than Swisher going all-out, odds are it would have fallen in too. Lofton in his prime is the only one I can think of who'd make that play standing up.

Jerry Owens, positioned properly, would be the only Sox player with foot speed enough to have a shot at it, but only a shot as the ball was tailing away. IMO: Rowand wouldn't have gotten it either.

Owens wouldn't have come as close to the ball as Swisher. He's abysmal at reading the ball off the bat.

I believe you're putting way too much emphasis on foot speed. Swisher got a horrible jump on the ball and still only missed it by 3 feet. I cannot recall a White Sox OF, that I've seen, who had better reads/jumps than Anderson.

TomBradley72
05-07-2008, 05:28 PM
No teal. You never take your superstar out of the game.

Swisher is our superstar in center and you just don't move him around for the ninth inning. Your dealing with actual PEOPLE here, not a video game.

Lou was wrong...what's best for the team comes first, not what's best for the alleged superstar.

Swisher=Superstar? He's a career .250 hitter....solid player...good guy in the clubhouse...but superstar centerfielder? No way.

Ozzie has been bringing in BA as a late inning replacement all season. It's not like this is a new concept.

TomBradley72
05-07-2008, 05:39 PM
You're obviously not watching the same player I am. Anderson has good range but by no means is he a burner. His arm and throwing accuracy are the real reasons he would get in as a defensive replacement. If he is so fast, where are the SB's throughout his career? The most he's had is 10 his first year in the minors...

Case in point is the catch Brian made this year vs. Detroit. He was much closer to that ball than he would have been in last night's play, and only a dive enabled him make that catch. He would have had to dive for this one as well, and while he would have gotten closer than Swisher going all-out, odds are it would have fallen in too. Lofton in his prime is the only one I can think of who'd make that play standing up.

Jerry Owens, positioned properly, would be the only Sox player with foot speed enough to have a shot at it, but only a shot as the ball was tailing away. IMO: Rowand wouldn't have gotten it either.

The point is not who steals the most bases...we're not debating a decision to pinch run someone.

The point is overall range...an an outfield of Quentin/Anderson/Swisher has much greater overall range than Quentin/Swisher/Dye. Plus Anderson gets great jumps. He may or may not have reached the ball, but we didn't have our best defensive outfield on the field to defend the last 3 outs of a no hit bid with a 7-1 lead.

santo=dorf
05-07-2008, 06:02 PM
My god it was 7 to ****in 1. I think we could "put up" with our starting outfield for 3 more outs. Jesus Christ.
Brian Anderson came in when it was 6 to ****ing 0 with 6 outs to go during Buehrle's no-hitter.

Just sayin'.

turners56
05-07-2008, 07:09 PM
Dagamit why couldn't Kenny sign Torii Hunter to that ridiculous contract this off-season? He would of easily had that ball!

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 07:14 PM
xD

Thanks, I was wondering if anyone appreciated the list. :smile:

turners56
05-07-2008, 07:25 PM
Thanks, I was wondering if anyone appreciated the list. :smile:

I loved #7.

#10 might actually happen if Ozzie knows what GTA IV is. Ozzie would be the kind of guy to play GTA IV.

"OMG guy, this is so ****ing awesome, **** yea, I pretend that guy was Jay Marioti, yea, he dead! I kill that *** with a rocket launcher, yea!"

Brian26
05-07-2008, 08:03 PM
I thought Anderson should have been put in CF for the 9th and Swish moved over to RF. I was hoping Ozzie would make that move but wasn't surprised when it didn't happen.

That said, I think the tv shot was a little deceiving. Unless you are sitting in the leftfield bleachers, its hard to judge the slice on a ball like that. I'm not sure Anderson could have caught up to it. There's no guarantee he would have had a better jump than Swisher either.

santo=dorf
05-07-2008, 08:06 PM
I loved #7.

#10 might actually happen if Ozzie knows what GTA IV is. Ozzie would be the kind of guy to play GTA IV.

"OMG guy, this is so ****ing awesome, **** yea, I pretend that guy was Jay Marioti, yea, he dead! I kill that *** with a rocket launcher, yea!"
Slezak would write an article ripping the White Sox for allowing such a video game to be in the clubhouse. :rolleyes:

turners56
05-07-2008, 09:39 PM
Slezak would write an article ripping the White Sox for allowing such a video game to be in the clubhouse. :rolleyes:

Add Slezak to Ozzie's pretend hit-list on GTA IV.

roadrunner
05-07-2008, 10:37 PM
I would like that move (or with Owens) made more often. The Toronto outfield looked huge with swisher running around out there. By contrast, Toronto outfielders seemed like they were on top of every ball hit out there.

I think Swisher is a probably a plus corner outfielder but not a great CF because of his speed. Either Anderson or Owens in center with Quentin and Swisher on the corners would give us a really solid, fast defensive outfield. We're getting great pitching so let's fortify the defense and hope we get just enough from the offense. Thome, Dye and Konerko all rotate bench time with my plan.

FedEx227
05-07-2008, 11:17 PM
Add Slezak to Ozzie's pretend hit-list on GTA IV.

I'll add her to mine too.

Soon she'll realize shes a journalist not a crusader. Just shutup already.

Frater Perdurabo
05-08-2008, 07:30 AM
Either Anderson or Owens in center with Quentin and Swisher on the corners would give us a really solid, fast defensive outfield.

If defense in CF is what you seek, Owens is not the answer. He certainly is fast, but he hasn't played baseball for many years and therefore lacks the instincts and ability to get good reads off the bat to put himself in proper position to get good jumps. This is why Anderson is the better defensive CF even if he doesn't have Owens' speed.