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View Full Version : It is a shame our hitting has been bad...out pitching has been amazing


jabrch
05-06-2008, 11:59 PM
3 starters under 3.30, 4 with WHIPs under 1.25, 4 with opp avg of .253 or less. Only Buehrle, who we assume will get better, has struggled. The pen has been generally fairly effective also.

It gives reason to be optimistic if the hitters can get a bit more aggressive and start hitting the ball more.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 12:00 AM
Amen

LoveYourSuit
05-07-2008, 12:42 AM
3 starters under 3.30, 4 with WHIPs under 1.25, 4 with opp avg of .253 or less. Only Buehrle, who we assume will get better, has struggled. The pen has been generally fairly effective also.

It gives reason to be optimistic if the hitters can get a bit more aggressive and start hitting the ball more.


Exactly.

This is why this slump got me more wound up and angry because I hate when great pitching gets wasted.

The cushion we would have in this division right now had our offense only been average instead of suck bad.... well let's get rolling in this series. So far very good.

doublem23
05-07-2008, 01:09 AM
If the offense could just be average, the Sox would be kicking ass and taking names. Hopefully the bats wake up and the arms stay this incredible.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/pressbox/photos/headshots_players_coaches/112653_90x135.jpg
I better get my number retired.

TDog
05-07-2008, 01:50 AM
In 1967, the White Sox had a team batting average of .225, a team on-base percentage of .291 and a team slugging percentage of .320. They scored only 531 runs. And some people will tell you they should have gone to the World Series. If they had won three of five games to the two worst teams in the league in the last week of the season, instead of losing five straight, they would have forced a playoff with the Red Sox, in any case.

The important thing was that as bad as their offense was, their opponents offense was worse.

As good as the White Sox pitching has been this year, it could have been better. They are perhaps five or six key pitches away from having a comfortable lead in the division. That isn't even taking offensive problems into consideration. I am one of those who believe the Sox hitting won't be as bad as it was during the recent road trip. If the pitching holds up, the solo home runs people find frustrating might be enough.

Tragg
05-07-2008, 07:12 AM
IF the pitching stays this way, we'll be okay even if we hit badly.
But unless Konerko, Dye and Thome are permanently finished, there's no reason to not to expect and offensive improvement....
Even after last season's disaster, Ozzie insists on having his hackers in the lineup and in key positions.
Get well soon, Richar. I realize Cabrera got a few hits last night, but his lifetime OBP is bad, his OBP this year is horrible. That's as silly as Erstad batting 1 and 2, which Ozzie insisted on last year.
Hopefully, they make some roster moves.

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 07:15 AM
Hawk said it best during Monday night's game (never thought I'd utter that phrase): if the pitching continues like this, the Sox will win the World Series. So far, the rotation has brought back memories of '05.
:gulp:

Hitmen77
05-07-2008, 08:16 AM
3 starters under 3.30, 4 with WHIPs under 1.25, 4 with opp avg of .253 or less. Only Buehrle, who we assume will get better, has struggled. The pen has been generally fairly effective also.

It gives reason to be optimistic if the hitters can get a bit more aggressive and start hitting the ball more.

Agreed! I just hope the pitching holds up WHEN the hitting comes around.

Konerko, Thome, Cabrera, and Swisher can't all (or any of them for that matter) hit .210 for much longer, can they?

October26
05-07-2008, 09:17 AM
3 starters under 3.30, 4 with WHIPs under 1.25, 4 with opp avg of .253 or less. Only Buehrle, who we assume will get better, has struggled. The pen has been generally fairly effective also.

It gives reason to be optimistic if the hitters can get a bit more aggressive and start hitting the ball more.

Great post. Like many other Sox fans, I have been watching and cringing during every loss (all 6 of them) this past week before last night. Each of our starters impressed me during the 6 game losing streak. The complete games were terrific - except for the losses, of course.

I agree with you that there is reason to be optimistic if the hitters can make contact. The upcoming schedule for the month of May is really brutal for the Sox - that west coast trip starting Friday is really going to be tough. Now is the time for the Sox hitters to step up! Hopefully, the pitching will remain as good as they have been to date!

voodoochile
05-07-2008, 10:17 AM
What wins championships?

itsnotrequired
05-07-2008, 10:20 AM
What wins championships?

Nice hair.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 10:24 AM
What wins championships?

Pitching and DEFENSE

Free Brian Anderson!!!!

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 10:47 AM
Pitching and DEFENSE

Free Brian Anderson!!!!

I was wondering how many posts into this thread until we heard BA getting a mention.

Anyway, we all know that the hitters on this team can hit better than they've been showing. As long as our pitchers keep it up we'll be in good shape.

Danks and Floyd are looking much more confident this year. Maybe last year was what they needed.

34 Inch Stick
05-07-2008, 10:52 AM
What wins championships?

Blow up dolls with wood infused intestines?

voodoochile
05-07-2008, 11:00 AM
Pitching and DEFENSE

Free Brian Anderson!!!!

Defense is pitching.

Pitching and the 3-run bomb win championships...

VeeckAsInWreck
05-07-2008, 11:04 AM
Defense is pitching.

Pitching and the 3-run bomb win championships...

Earl Weaver would agree with you!

http://fingerfood.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/earlweaver.jpg

voodoochile
05-07-2008, 11:08 AM
Earl Weaver would agree with you!

http://fingerfood.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/earlweaver.jpg

"Do you have any gum?"

Smart man that Earl...

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 11:12 AM
Defense is pitching.

Pitching and the 3-run bomb win championships...

Sorry Voodoo, I'll take my team full of strong pitchers and great fielders who can execute the fundamentals, over your team of equally strong pitchers that has Manny Ramirez in CF and a keystone combo Jim Thome and Frank Thomas.

:tongue:

voodoochile
05-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Sorry Voodoo, I'll take my team full of strong pitchers and great fielders who can execute the fundamentals, over your team of equally strong pitchers that has Manny Ramirez in CF and a keystone combo Jim Thome and Frank Thomas.

:tongue:

Ah, I never said I would play a team out of position, but given the choice between two players who can both actually field a position, I'll take the one with the better bat almost every time (exception when one player is light years ahead of the other defensively and the offensive difference is minimal).

Big Lar
05-07-2008, 11:21 AM
Agreed! I just hope the pitching holds up WHEN the hitting comes around.

Konerko, Thome, Cabrera, and Swisher can't all (or any of them for that matter) hit .210 for much longer, can they?

I'm thinking Paulie and Thome are done. Swisher and Cabrera are not in the right spot in the lineup, so it's not fair to judge them yet. But it's time to get our speed at the top of the lineup and sit Paulie & Thome. How about moving Swisher to first, putting Jerry Owens in Center Field to lead off, Josh Fields in Left Field, and let Qentin DH? And before you bash that idea please note Carlos is leading us in HR's and at the top in BA. I don't think this hurts us too much defensively, except in left field. But it gets us quicker and better bats in the lineup.

Just a thought.

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 11:27 AM
Sorry Voodoo, I'll take my team full of strong pitchers and great fielders who can execute the fundamentals, over your team of equally strong pitchers that has Manny Ramirez in CF and a keystone combo Jim Thome and Frank Thomas.

:tongue:
Obviously, you've taken it to an extreme case, as playing Frank Thomas at SS and Jim Thome at 2B (he's even left-handed!) would be horrible.

However, under less extreme circumstances, I agree with voodoochile. On a team with great pitching, I'd say having an elite defense matters less, as the pitchers will have most likely have high strikeout totals and will induce hitters into easy fly balls and ground balls. Unless you have absolute butchers in the field (which Manny Ramirez is not, though Thomas and Thome are), you'll still get your outs.

On the other hand, you always need hitting (as evidenced by recent events in Minnesota and Toronto). If you can't score, you can't win. Filling a team with defensive specialists like Juan Uribe and Adam Everett (now I've given an extreme example) is equally as horrible as playing Thomas and Thome up the middle. There's a happy medium, and if the choice is between an average-hitting, good-fielding SS and a good-hitting, average-fielding one, I'll take the latter.

voodoochile
05-07-2008, 11:28 AM
I'm thinking Paulie and Thome are done. Swisher and Cabrera are not in the right spot in the lineup, so it's not fair to judge them yet. But it's time to get our speed at the top of the lineup and sit Paulie & Thome. How about moving Swisher to first, putting Jerry Owens in Center Field to lead off, Josh Fields in Left Field, and let Qentin DH? And before you bash that idea please note Carlos is leading us in HR's and at the top in BA. I don't think this hurts us too much defensively, except in left field. But it gets us quicker and better bats in the lineup.

Just a thought.

My thought is why wouldn't you simply let Fields DH since Quentin actually can pay LF?

Oh and I hate this idea. Sorry, but that's a recipe for a 85 win team, IMO. The Sox can win 90+ and make a run at the playoffs if Thome and PK come around. If they don't we're screwed.

Eddo144
05-07-2008, 11:38 AM
I'm thinking Paulie and Thome are done. Swisher and Cabrera are not in the right spot in the lineup, so it's not fair to judge them yet. But it's time to get our speed at the top of the lineup and sit Paulie & Thome. How about moving Swisher to first, putting Jerry Owens in Center Field to lead off, Josh Fields in Left Field, and let Qentin DH? And before you bash that idea please note Carlos is leading us in HR's and at the top in BA. I don't think this hurts us too much defensively, except in left field. But it gets us quicker and better bats in the lineup.

Just a thought.
First, Quentin is at least average in the field, and has a good arm. I'd put him in RF and Dye at DH in your scenario. Actually, I'd probably keep Quentin in LF, Dye in RF, and put Fields at DH. Just because a player is your best hitter doesn't mean he has to be your DH. He can be your best hitter and contribute in the field, which Quentin is doing right now.

Second, even though they're performing below expectations, Thome and Konerko are far from being bench-quality players. Top 10 sluggers? Not anymore. But you'll likely get 30+ HR from each of them (like last year), with 25+ guaranteed. I'd have no problem moving them from the third and fourth spot in the order, but you don't improve a lineup by removing two of your four or five best hitters. Replacing them with Fields and Owens is not the way to go.
Now, Fields definitely has a future, but is going to have all the qualities people (myself not included) rip on Thome for ("all-or-nothing"; lots of strikeouts; lack of speed). However, if you're grooming Fields to play 3B for the next 10+ years, moving him up now is not the right answer. As long as Crede's on the team and playing effectively, Fields should stay in AAA to get as many PAs and as much experience at 3B as possible.
As for Owens, he has one tool: speed. He's not much of a CF, has no power, and didn't show much ability to get on base when he was up last year.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 11:48 AM
Now, Fields definitely has a future, but is going to have all the qualities people (myself not included) rip on Thome for ("all-or-nothing"; lots of strikeouts; lack of speed).

I agree with most of your post, and even much of what I quoted here. Fields will be a high-power/high strikeout guy. But Fields does have pretty good speed on the basepaths. He's no Pods/Owens/Pierre/Crawford, but he's much faster than Thome, Konerko and Dye. I think in a full season he could steal 20 bases and often go from first to third on a single to RF.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 11:57 AM
Defense is pitching.

Pitching and the 3-run bomb win championships...


There are eight other people involved with defense. None as important as the pitcher, but "defense is pitching" is a patently false claim.

fquaye149
05-07-2008, 11:58 AM
Ah, I never said I would play a team out of position, but given the choice between two players who can both actually field a position, I'll take the one with the better bat almost every time (exception when one player is light years ahead of the other defensively and the offensive difference is minimal).

That will be great for your fantasy team, but in real life, putting lousy defense out there makes your pitching WORSE.

Just ask the 2006 White Sox pitching staff what it's like having a stumblebum playing the most important position on the field.

voodoochile
05-07-2008, 12:07 PM
Ah, I never said I would play a team out of position, but given the choice between two players who can both actually field a position, I'll take the one with the better bat almost every time (exception when one player is light years ahead of the other defensively and the offensive difference is minimal).

That will be great for your fantasy team, but in real life, putting lousy defense out there makes your pitching WORSE.

Just ask the 2006 White Sox pitching staff what it's like having a stumblebum playing the most important position on the field.

Did you actually read what I said or just go off half-cocked and start screaming Mackowiak?

Here, I'll highlight the relevent parts of the post you responded to...

Actually, I mistyped and meant player instead of team in the first sentence, but show me where I said I'd play a poor defender based on offensive capability.

Given a choice between a minor upgrade on defense or a minor upgrade on offense, I'll take the offense.

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 12:39 PM
Given a choice between a minor upgrade on defense or a minor upgrade on offense, I'll take the offense.

It all depends.

Aramis Ramirez has been a better hitter over his career than Joe Crede. But I wouldn't bench Crede just to make room for Ramirez because Ramirez would be a significant defensive downgrade.

Joe Crede is a marginally better fielder at 3B than A-Rod (a natural SS), but because A-Rod is a much better hitter and the defensive loss would be quite small, I would take A-Rod over Crede.

Back in 2006, given who was on the roster, I wanted BA in CF instead of Mackowiak. I thought the difference in their fielding was greater than the difference in their hitting (and both sides cited stats and "scouting" observations to support their argument). But if Erstad or Rowand were on the 2006 Sox, I absolutely would have been OK with benching BA because Erstad and Rowand actually could have played a decent CF, unlike Mackowiak.

Again, it all depends on the situation and who we have on the roster.