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View Full Version : How is it possible Arizona lost $66 million last year?


BackInBlack
05-01-2002, 09:00 PM
I read that during Arizona's chase for the World Series title, they actually lost $66 million that season. I could understand losing a few million, but $66 million, where the hell did all that money go? Probably to fill that pool in right field I know water goes at a premium in the desert, but geesh!



Checking ESPN's stats, the D-Backs finished No. 14 in the league last year in attendance with 33,000+ per game. Not so bad. This year, they rank No. 2 in MLB with about 40,000 per game. Man, the Sox win the World Series and we might draw more than 30 G's per game! :-I

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

BackInBlack
05-01-2002, 09:08 PM
Speaking of revenue... I'm wondering how much extra revenue Seattle receives from the Pacific Rim with all their Asian stars. That's gotta be something of a competitive advantage. Has anybody heard any numbers thrown out there? The opportunity to tap into a massive market has me wondering if the Bulls should draft Yao Ming. I mean, the entire country of China would tune in to watch every Bulls game and they'd all be wearing Ming jerseys. The Bulls would have so much money they'd be able to spend well above the cap and not even think about it.

RedPinStripes
05-01-2002, 09:27 PM
If you win the series and lose 66 mill, you're eithr lying terribly, or doing something very wrong.

Daver
05-01-2002, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
If you win the series and lose 66 mill, you're eithr lying terribly, or doing something very wrong.

Or you are an expansion team that signed an agreement that pays you no TV revenue from the pool for four years.

RedPinStripes
05-01-2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by daver


Or you are an expansion team that signed an agreement that pays you no TV revenue from the pool for four years.

Last year was the 4th year right? If they keep drawing like they did, they should not lose that much money. I don't believe any team when they say they lost al this money. If they're all losing money, what are they in it for?

:tool
Baseabll is running out of money. We have to contract teams so i can cash in.

BackInBlack
05-01-2002, 10:41 PM
Isn't it true that despite the Sox's "average" attendance figures, they actually rank No. 5 or 6 in MLB revenue? What are the major sources of income besides attendance? I realize TV is a HUGE part of it, but do the Sox really get that much $$$ from WGN? Everybody gets on FSN, so that's not much of an advantage (although the Sox get more for being in the Chicago market). Merchandise-wise, I could see the Sox finishing in the top 3rd of the league. But where's all this supposed money coming from?



C'mon Sox, hold on for the win.

baggio202
05-01-2002, 11:54 PM
its called bud selig accounting 101 :)

kermittheefrog
05-02-2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by daver


Or you are an expansion team that signed an agreement that pays you no TV revenue from the pool for four years.

That's not entirely accurate. I think it's no TV revenue for two years and then reduced revenue for another two. According to MLB the D-Backs got about 18.5 mil from TV revenue while that 28 non-expansion teams got 24.5. So they are only missing out on 6 million, 1/6 of their suppsed debt. Their debt that is in actuality BS becase teams that win the World Series MAKE lots of money.

RedPinStripes
05-02-2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Their debt that is in actuality BS becase teams that win the World Series MAKE lots of money.

That's what i was thinking.

MisterB
05-02-2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
Isn't it true that despite the Sox's "average" attendance figures, they actually rank No. 5 or 6 in MLB revenue? What are the major sources of income besides attendance? I realize TV is a HUGE part of it, but do the Sox really get that much $$$ from WGN? Everybody gets on FSN, so that's not much of an advantage (although the Sox get more for being in the Chicago market). Merchandise-wise, I could see the Sox finishing in the top 3rd of the league. But where's all this supposed money coming from?

According to Doug Pappas' series in Baseball Prospectus looking at the 'official' revenue & expense numbers, the Sox are 21st in gate reciepts (c. $30.9 m), 5th in local broadcast revenue (c. $30 m), and 19th in 'Other' local revenue (Skyboxes, parking, concessions - c. $26.3 m). Plus they got about $24.4 m as their cut of national revenue (broadcast & merchandise) .

BackInBlack
05-02-2002, 09:24 AM
Good info, guys (especially Mister B). I can't believe how resourceful this place is.

As far as national revenue goes with merchandise, does MLB pool together all merchandise sales and divide it up evenly between 30 teams? That doesn't seem fair.

Either way, the Sox's payroll is something $60-some million, right? I have no idea what they're paying for Comiskey, the cost of the farm system, employee salaries or any licenses, etc... but by looking at the numbers B provided, it would seem the Sox couldn't be too much in the red:

$30.9 - Gate Receipts +
$30.0 - Local Broadcast Rev +
$26.3 - Other Local Rev +
$24.4 - National Revenue
--------------------------------
$111.6 million total revenue


Hey B, I'd be interested in checking out that link if you'd be so kind. Thanks!

Randar68
05-02-2002, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
Speaking of revenue... I'm wondering how much extra revenue Seattle receives from the Pacific Rim with all their Asian stars. That's gotta be something of a competitive advantage. Has anybody heard any numbers thrown out there? The opportunity to tap into a massive market has me wondering if the Bulls should draft Yao Ming. I mean, the entire country of China would tune in to watch every Bulls game and they'd all be wearing Ming jerseys. The Bulls would have so much money they'd be able to spend well above the cap and not even think about it.

The NBA has a different system of licensing. The NBA controls team logos and jerseys and such, to a certain extent. I'm not sure how much individual teams would benefit. Also, I think international TV contracts a significant cut goes to the League.

Like the NFL, when there is the salary cap system, a lot of league-wide reveune is controlled/distributed by the league.

MisterB
05-02-2002, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
Hey B, I'd be interested in checking out that link if you'd be so kind. Thanks!

The Numbers (Part 8) (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20020403pappas.shtml)
This is a link to the last article in the series, which has links to the first 7. I plugged in the numbers from the series into a spreadsheet, and figure the Sox 'officially' lost about $7.6 mil last season.

OKCSoxFan
05-02-2002, 11:02 PM
So if I understood all that correctly, Arizona lost no more than $36 mil even with bonuses and other crap thrown in. According to Forbes, the actual operating loss was only about $3-4 mil.