PDA

View Full Version : Official 5/5/08 *WOW!* Postgame Thread


chisoxfanatic
05-05-2008, 08:51 PM
One word sums this up: WOW!

spiffie
05-05-2008, 08:51 PM
Well, at least Pablo was swinging, instead of trying to work a walk against a pitcher who had walked 3 straight guys. Sure it didn't work out well, but it will make certain people here happy.

Blueprint1
05-05-2008, 08:52 PM
I can't even get mad anymore.

The Immigrant
05-05-2008, 08:52 PM
Thanks for the memories Pablo, but you should be DFA'd by tomorrow.

MCHSoxFan
05-05-2008, 08:52 PM
Sox F-ing Suck!!!! Who Want My Season Tickets?!?! No 2 Year In A Row!!!! No You Don't!!!! F-u White Sox!!! Pitching? That's Gonna Suck!!! Hell Noooo!!! Our Pitching Will Blow Your Butt Off! Our Offense If Just Crap!!! My Life If Over!!! No, I Am Gonna Here It As School!!! Wow!!! F These White Sox!!! Tired Of The Crap!!! F-ing Bases Load And Then What!!! A Damn Dp!! Our Pitchers Cannot Give Up One F-ing Run?!?! Damn!!! When I Go To My Next Game, O Am Going To Scream My Head Off And I Do Not Care What The Hell I Say!!! Bull Stuff White Sox!!! Bull Stuff!!!

Mod Edit: I highlighted the several language filter violations in your post. Next time you get a rip.

aryzner
05-05-2008, 08:52 PM
If I wanted to watch suckage of this magnitude, I'd have rented a pornographic film. :angry:

soxwon
05-05-2008, 08:52 PM
Sad- Does anyone else feel like crying? LOL

mealfred13
05-05-2008, 08:53 PM
Beautifully pitched game by Javy, and another lack of situational hitting for the loss... Have at it.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2008, 08:53 PM
God damn base-cloggers! ****ing swing!

Vernam
05-05-2008, 08:53 PM
I can't even get mad anymore.Tha's okay, I'm mad enough for both of us. :angry::angry::angry::angry:

Javy, you deserved way better.

Vernam

Corlose 15
05-05-2008, 08:53 PM
Pablo Ozuna has no business being on this team. He can't field, he can't throw, he can't hit and provides absolutely no spark off the bench.

Release him demote him whatever, get Owens up here and let Uribe be the backup 3B with Ramirez spelling him at 2B.

He can't even make solid contact. He hasn't been useful since 2006.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 08:53 PM
Where was the squeeze with Pablo up?

skobabe8
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
I can't even get mad anymore.

White Sox Baseball: So Bad That You'll Get To The Point Where You Can't Get Mad Anymore!

Dick Allen
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Heads need to roll, and fast. And I don't give a **** who. This has been going on since 2H of '06 and getting progressively worse. Yeah, Joe, we're all getting migraines from this.

Etownsox13
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Cue dark clouds

RTI_SoxFan
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Deleted for language filter violations.

Your posts are as annoying as watching the Sox offense! We Suck Bad!:angry::angry:

cleanwsox
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Glad we called Russell up for this series.

JB98
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
It's looking like it will be another long year.

I feel sorry for Javy. One mistake is one too many. As soon as Stairs hit the HR, I knew we would lose 1-0.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
xJdCglISowo

The White Sox are poo-poo heads.

soltrain21
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Terrible at bat by Pablo, but then again - it has been terrible AB after terrible AB for the last two weeks.

assrevolution
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
I was sick this morning with a 100 degree fever. after the last 2:45 of watching this team, I am violently ill. The only thing to make this game worse would have been to have the bases loaded with 0 outs and do nothing.

Guillen's right. but this team is Chicago's bitch because they play like bitches.

look like both the sox and cubs had bases loaded in the 9th with 1 out on the road, and both come up empty.

gsang
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
and if not, why the heck wasn't he pinch hitting for a terrible ozuna!? And, I think I've seen enough of Pablo- he used to be clutch, now he's got nothing.

sox1970
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Ozuna is a fraud.

Why he's on this team is beyond me. Bring up Getz. Keep Uribe on the bench.

TDog
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
The only three walks the Sox have taken since Friday, I think, came in the ninth inning today. It was unfortunate that Crede wasn't available to hit in that situation.

Fortunately, the Sox play in a soft division. The Indians and Tigers right now look almost as bad as the White Sox do.

MCHSoxFan
05-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Alright, I have settle down. Only 2 out after this crap. Now, we are gonna play the Twins...who are ahead of us. We CAN beat the Twins at home. So, let's do it White Sox. 2/3 without even trying!!!

veeter
05-05-2008, 08:55 PM
I'm stunned.

chisoxfanatic
05-05-2008, 08:55 PM
This was an even worse 4-game series than last year's at home against Boston. At least those Red Sox were an outstanding team; but, these Blue Jays are average at best. There's no reason not to get at least one win out of this series.

You have ducks on the pond and NOBODY out and can't score? That gave me the sign of what would become of tonight's game.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 08:56 PM
Rant deleted for language filter violationsThis is my favorite post ever.

russ99
05-05-2008, 08:56 PM
That was the worst. Where was Crede in the 9th? Is he hurt again??

Hopefully this is rock bottom. Kenny's not going to put up with this much longer.

Since a roster move has to be made tomorrow with Ramirez coming off the restricted list, maybe bring up Fields and Owens? Give Walker the heave-ho? You can't blame Greg entirely for this, but he's gotta be on a short leash now.

NSSoxFan
05-05-2008, 08:56 PM
Alright, I have settle down. Only 2 out after this crap. Now, we are gonna play the Twins...who are ahead of us. We CAN beat the Twins at home. So, let's do it White Sox. 2/3 without even trying!!!

Seek clinical guidance.

Tragg
05-05-2008, 08:56 PM
Why was Ozuna even batting? Was Crede hurt?
The most infuriating thing about Ozzie's hackers is that they can't even do the thing at which they are reputedly are so skilled: make an out where they are supposed to make an out.
Good thing that Ozuna didn't waste another at bat by walking....I was thinking to myself beffore the 9th that the team quit walking as well as quit hitting (no coincidence).

They've got to do something. Ozzie has a legitimate coach in charge of the pitching (which may be why young pitchers develop better than young hitters), but how about replacing one of the others whose main credential seems to be being a yes man. (the ones who weren't, like Raines, were sent packing years ago),

soltrain21
05-05-2008, 08:56 PM
This is my favorite post ever.


Bull stuff indeed.

Soxman219
05-05-2008, 08:57 PM
The offense needs to buy every starting pitcher on that team a watch. In the words of the Comic Book Guy, "WORST. ROAD TRIP. EVER!." Our pitching as been great but the offense only scored 9 runs the ENTIRE road trip. I just don't know what is wrong.:scratch:

Let's get them tomorrow I guess.:(:

KyWhiSoxFan
05-05-2008, 08:57 PM
As bad as the team is playing and scuffling for runs ... you have to have Ozuna squeeze to get in the tying run. If they could do that, at least they're back in the game and have a chance. Ozuna is one of the best on the team bunting. Ozzie needed to use him that way. Heck, that's about all Ozuna can do.

This is pathetic.

Corlose 15
05-05-2008, 08:57 PM
and if not, why the heck wasn't he pinch hitting for a terrible ozuna!? And, I think I've seen enough of Pablo- he used to be clutch, now he's got nothing.

Crede is out with a migraine.

assrevolution
05-05-2008, 08:57 PM
and if not, why the heck wasn't he pinch hitting for a terrible ozuna!? And, I think I've seen enough of Pablo- he used to be clutch, now he's got nothing.

Crede was out with a migraine.

thomas35forever
05-05-2008, 08:57 PM
What else can I say? We ****ing suck, plain and simple.:angry:

slowlearner
05-05-2008, 08:57 PM
I almost wish they would just get blown out. Watching them waste all these find starts just makes me doubly nauseous.

I think I'm gonna go throw up.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 08:58 PM
Wow...man, it's going to be a LONG year. I was hoping that a win today could maybe get something going for us, but we look dead. ****, we probably are dead. This team is just bad. Something needs to be done. Someone should either be cut or fired...this is just ****ing silly. On the plus side the post game show should be entertaining.

DickAllen72
05-05-2008, 08:58 PM
Thanks for the memories Pablo, but you should be DFA'd by tomorrow.
I'm probably Pablo's biggest fan here, but sadly I think it's time to say adios. He seems to have lost a half step and speed was one of his greatest assets.

Oh yeah, and Thome sucks too. I wish they could get rid of him but they're probably stuck with his contract.

At this point I'd rather see Anderson and Owens in the lineup in place of Thome and Konerko. Getz in place of Uribe too.

soltrain21
05-05-2008, 08:58 PM
Cue dark clouds

Are they dark clouds when they are making points that are actually valid?

JDub35
05-05-2008, 08:59 PM
http://photos-445.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v111/140/56/14800445/n14800445_35884194_2214.jpg

:angry::angry:

35th and Shields
05-05-2008, 08:59 PM
Why didn't he drop down a squeeze bunt?]

Tragg
05-05-2008, 08:59 PM
and if not, why the heck wasn't he pinch hitting for a terrible ozuna!?
Exactly. Why in th world is Ozuna even batting....or why is he on this team?

QCIASOXFAN
05-05-2008, 08:59 PM
Alright, I have settle down. Only 2 out after this crap. Now, we are gonna play the Twins...who are ahead of us. We CAN beat the Twins at home. So, let's do it White Sox. 2/3 without even trying!!!
I wouldn't get my hopes up about beating up on the Twins at home. The Twins pitchers puzzle our offense and they can manufacture runs very well.

veeter
05-05-2008, 09:00 PM
As I'm reluctant to compare '07 to this year, the one similar thing, is how they top their suckiness from the day before, by finding new and inventive ways to lose, the next day. I'm 40 years old and I never remember these things happening before.

regionsox73
05-05-2008, 09:00 PM
There is a silver lining... with this team being straight awful there are positives...

1. More half-price Mondays.
2. Return of half-price Tuesdays.
3. I can go to a game and watch from the batter's eye fan deck thing again.
4. "C" Lot will be a cash lot again.
5. Return of Dollar Dog Thursday.

It also might allow an implosion of sorts so we can get rid of some dead weight.

assrevolution
05-05-2008, 09:01 PM
not scoring via the homerun the last few days can bring up the same point that this team is too damn slow, but I didn't see lack of speed costing the sox this weekend. it was lack of execution. as usual on offense for the past year plus. this offensive lineup has proven nothing but being able to hit a lot of homers. can't bunt, move runners over, or directionaly hit. i'm taking a week off from this tragedy.

Parrothead
05-05-2008, 09:01 PM
One word sums this up: WOW!

I thought the word would be "stink"

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:01 PM
I wouldn't get my hopes up about beating up on the Twins at home. The Twins pitchers puzzle our offense and they can manufacture runs very well.
Right now, I could puzzle our hitters and I throw about fifty.

JB98
05-05-2008, 09:01 PM
I'm probably Pablo's biggest fan here, but sadly I think it's time to say adios. He seems to have lost a half step and speed was one of his greatest assets.

Oh yeah, and Thome sucks too. I wish they could get rid of him but they're probably stuck with his contract.

At this point I'd rather see Anderson and Owens in the lineup in place of Thome and Konerko. Getz in place of Uribe too.

That's only a reasonable statement if you are prepared to mail in this season. I guarantee you adding Anderson, Owens and Getz to the lineup at the expense of Thome, Konerko and Uribe will NOT get us anywhere near the postseason this year.

Are you as a Sox fan willing to surrender 30 games into the season? If veterans were dumped for young players would you complain about JR being cheap?

I don't think this club is going anywhere either, but I think it's a little too early to say that definitively.

Parrothead
05-05-2008, 09:02 PM
Rant Deleted

How do you really feel?

russ99
05-05-2008, 09:03 PM
Wow...man, it's going to be a LONG year. I was hoping that a win today could maybe get something going for us, but we look dead. ****, we probably are dead. This team is just bad. Something needs to be done. Someone should either be cut or fired...this is just ****ing silly. On the plus side the post game show should be entertaining.

The issue isn't that it's going to be a long year, since the pitching is excellent, if not awesome.

It's more what Kenny has to do to get the offense scoring runs, since it's apparent to me it's not something the current players and coaching staff can readily fix.

JB98
05-05-2008, 09:03 PM
As I'm reluctant to compare '07 to this year, the one similar thing, is how they top their suckiness from the day before, by finding new and inventive ways to lose, the next day. I'm 40 years old and I never remember these things happening before.

To be honest with you, I think we are losing the same way every day. Good pitching and ****ty play from our position players.

Look at the scores on this trip: 3-1, 4-3, 2-0, 5-2, 4-3, 1-0.

All well-pitched games by the Sox. Not a single win among them. It's not a new and inventive way to lose. It's the same ****, just a different day.

tstrike2000
05-05-2008, 09:04 PM
I have to say that these last 6 games displayed an even worse offense than any 6 game stretch in the second half of '06 or all of last year when we were fielding a AAAA team.

regionsox73
05-05-2008, 09:04 PM
Dearest Mr. Walker:

I would like to thank you for all your years of hard work and dedication to the Chicago White Sox. You were one of my 3 favorite players (Luzinski and Fisk) when I went to my first game in June 1984. I felt awful when you had the seizure before a game and had to spend time in the hospital. I was happy to see you hired as hitting coach and am proud and thank you for brining a World Series title to Chicago. Unfortunately this is some of the worst hitting I have seen at certain points and since we can't get rid of 9 guys, we have to blame someone. Fair or not, it was your time to move on. You will be back in baseball by next season so enjoy fishing in Georgia for the remainder of the summer.

Best to you and thanks again.

SoxandtheCityTee
05-05-2008, 09:05 PM
What, no comments on Uribe's failure to score from third with none out on a ball hit to the SS who had no play except to first? If your offense is slumping the least you can do is run the bases properly.

TDog
05-05-2008, 09:05 PM
...

Oh yeah, and Thome sucks too. I wish they could get rid of him but they're probably stuck with his contract. ....

Thome doesn't suck worse than anyone else on this team. Swisher probably didin't have anything he could have driven for a clean hit during his at bat in the ninth, but he unfortunately came up in one of those RBI situations where a walk isn't as good as a hit. If Crede had been hitting behind him, the Sox would have had a better chance.

I don't know what has happened to Ozuna. Since coming back from his injury he hasn't been the same hitter. He wasn't on the team for his glove, of course.

GBORN
05-05-2008, 09:05 PM
Crede was out with a migraine.

Migraine...Migraine? Crede take two aspirin and get your ass in the game. I've got a migraine watching this crap the past 6 days.

russ99
05-05-2008, 09:06 PM
To be honest with you, I think we are losing the same way every day. Good pitching and ****ty play from our position players.

Look at the scores on this trip: 3-1, 4-3, 2-0, 5-2, 4-3, 1-0.

All well-pitched games by the Sox. Not a single win among them. It's not a new and inventive way to lose. It's the same ****, just a different day.

The difference on offense is we were taking more walks and hitting more homers earlier on. This team hasn't been able to score RISPs since day one. Which is both a personnel and coaching issue.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:06 PM
What, no comments on Uribe's failure to score from third with none out on a ball hit to the SS who had no play except to first? If your offense is slumping the least you can do is run the bases properly.

Never make the first out at home.....NEVER!

MCHSoxFan
05-05-2008, 09:06 PM
How do you really feel?

EXACTLY what the post said.

Vernam
05-05-2008, 09:06 PM
It's looking like it will be another long year. Yep, it is. But this is ****ing May 5! What are paying fans supposed to think about a team that has yielded to futility this early? I'm not even talking about the pathetic lack of hitting. I mean the quotes by Ozzie, where he's defiant -- this is the team we have, there's nothing I can change, get used to it, folks. What the **** is that?

No accountability = No success.

Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Vernam

Jurr
05-05-2008, 09:07 PM
I remember saying that I would trade one WS win for the next five years, but I rrreaallly hate this.

JB98
05-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Exactly. Why in th world is Ozuna even batting....or why is he on this team?

Crede was the only one left on the bench, and he has a migraine.

We really don't have much off the bench this year.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Migraine...Migraine? Crede take two aspirin and get your ass in the game. I've got a migraine watching this crap the past 6 days.

I can't argue there. A migraine is better than Ozuna.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:08 PM
The issue isn't that it's going to be a long year, since the pitching is excellent, if not awesome.

It's more what Kenny has to do to get the offense scoring runs, since it's apparent to me it's not something the current players and coaching staff can readily fix.
I just wonder how long the pitching can hold up like this...but, yea, if they do keep pitching like this we're in OK shape...but really, I don't think they will. And as for the offense, I have no idea what the **** we can do to make things any better. We need some speed here or some ability to manufacture runs, but who the hell can give you that?

GlassSox
05-05-2008, 09:08 PM
Good game Javy, too bad you a get a loss tonight because the offense can't get to home plate.

Time for a new batting coach?:scratch:

35th and Shields
05-05-2008, 09:08 PM
Migraine...Migraine? Crede take two aspirin and get your ass in the game. I've got a migraine watching this crap the past 6 days.

I'm pretty sure crede wanted to bat in that situation as much as we wanted him too

sox1970
05-05-2008, 09:08 PM
I'd love to see Ozuna released tomorrow.

#1-He's not useful

#2-It'll send a message to the team that if you don't get the job done, you're gone.

veeter
05-05-2008, 09:08 PM
To be honest with you, I think we are losing the same way every day. Good pitching and ****ty play from our position players.

Look at the scores on this trip: 3-1, 4-3, 2-0, 5-2, 4-3, 1-0.

All well-pitched games by the Sox. Not a single win among them. It's not a new and inventive way to lose. It's the same ****, just a different day.But it's like the one thing Pablo couldn't do there,..he did. I don't know. You're right though, the pitching has been stellar. On a positive note, the division is bunched up. They can still contend for a long while.

Corlose 15
05-05-2008, 09:09 PM
Never make the first out at home.....NEVER!

He wouldn't have been out, the Jays were conceding the run and there's no way Eckstein throws him out.

Harry Potter
05-05-2008, 09:09 PM
Interesting to hear the crowd response tomorrow

thomas35forever
05-05-2008, 09:09 PM
I remember saying that I would trade one WS win for the next five years, but I rrreaallly hate this.
So does everyone else. How are we supposed to put up with this **** all year? If no lineup or personnel changes are going to be made, just trade the entire rotation to clubs that could actually use them. I'd rather have crappy starters than crappy hitting. Fire Greg Walker now!

GBORN
05-05-2008, 09:09 PM
Bill Melton just said the Sox couldn't hit Bozo the Clown right now.

SoxandtheCityTee
05-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Never make the first out at home.....NEVER!

OK, but Uribe wouldn't have been out; all four announcers agreed.

And there were other gaffes in that inning. Uribe just seemed out of it.

Jerko
05-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Crede was the only one left on the bench, and he has a migraine.

We really don't have much off the bench this year.

That kills me. A 1-0 game and we're out of players.

Soxman219
05-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Rant Deleted

WOW! Someone is angry, but I can't complain. On Friday, I posted something like this too. This is a bad time to be a white sox fan.:(:

It's Time
05-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Lots of Pablo hating but the whole team sucks.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:11 PM
Never make the first out at home.....NEVER!
Yea but with the shortstop playing deep and when that shortstop's arm is as bad as Eckstein, you HAVE to go. It's not like the infield was in, they were conceding a run (perhaps out of pity) on the infield. It was a stupid player by Uribe, but Uribe is not exactly what one would call a "head's up" player.

regionsox73
05-05-2008, 09:11 PM
I'd love to see Ozuna released tomorrow.

#1-He's not useful

#2-It'll send a message to the team that if you don't get the job done, you're gone.

We have no one else on the roster, AAA, AA, etc. No other good infielder types.

Tragg
05-05-2008, 09:11 PM
This team is better than 2007 - a lot better in terms of talent. The pitching is clearly better.
The concern is that the dips from the veteran core (Thome, Dye, PK, AJ, Crede) are real and lasting, and not blips.
It looks like that Cabrera trade was horrible, unless the draft picks are there for us (does someone actually have to sign Cabrera for the Sox to get comp?).
The bench contains 2 utility infielders (one is enough) and the starting lineup contains 2 not-too-good hitting SS (Uribe and Cabrera). That's an unabalanced roster. With Ozzie as manager, there will simply always be a few (too many) slap hitting swing at everything types hanging around - to Ozzie they are aggressive and fearless; and they will be an offensive anchor.

russ99
05-05-2008, 09:11 PM
He wouldn't have been out, the Jays were conceding the run and there's no way Eckstein throws him out.

And why not force a throw and try to fire up the team.

TheOldRoman
05-05-2008, 09:12 PM
To be honest with you, I think we are losing the same way every day. Good pitching and ****ty play from our position players.

Look at the scores on this trip: 3-1, 4-3, 2-0, 5-2, 4-3, 1-0.

All well-pitched games by the Sox. Not a single win among them. It's not a new and inventive way to lose. It's the same ****, just a different day.I knew the exact number in my head, but reading it from your post just reinforces it. 9 runs. 9 ****ing runs over six games. The hitters need to watch more highlights of themselves hitting tape-measured homers. That will really fix their swings.

And the worst part is that this team looks every bit as gutless as the team at the end of 06. They get punched in the mouth - they cower. The other team takes a lead - they mope around the dugout because they know the game is over.

sox1970
05-05-2008, 09:12 PM
We have no one else on the roster, AAA, AA, etc. No other good infielder types.

Chris Getz can play second. Uribe can stay on the bench.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:12 PM
He wouldn't have been out, the Jays were conceding the run and there's no way Eckstein throws him out.

That's hindesite. Obviously they were not running on contact. Put the blame on Cox, not Uribe.

cws05champ
05-05-2008, 09:13 PM
Crede was the only one left on the bench, and he has a migraine.

We really don't have much off the bench this year.
We would have had Owens available if management wasn't so stupid and called up a long man that we didn't need with the Thursday day off. Owens could have pinch run for Paulie and BA could have hit there in the 9th.

Harry Potter
05-05-2008, 09:13 PM
And why not force a throw and try to fire up the team.

and if he did run, and was thrown out at the plate, everyone here would be bitching

JB98
05-05-2008, 09:14 PM
Yep, it is. But this is ****ing May 5! What are paying fans supposed to think about a team that has yielded to futility this early? I'm not even talking about the pathetic lack of hitting. I mean the quotes by Ozzie, where he's defiant -- this is the team we have, there's nothing I can change, get used to it, folks. What the **** is that?

No accountability = No success.

Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Vernam

As paying customer (I have partial season-tickets), my biggest concern with the organization is they seem to think they are above reproach. KW, Ozzie, the players, everybody seems to think they have an unlimited amount of political capital because of their success in 2005.

If I was doing poorly at my job today, I would be fired, even if I did my job exceptionally well three years ago. The world is "What have you done for me lately?" place. All this ranting about the media and the fans turning their backs on the Sox, it's a bunch of phooey. I'm still watching every game. I'm still cheering for my team. That doesn't mean I think they are doing their jobs well. If I was doing so poorly at my job, I would be held accountable, and I'm sure it is the same way for most folks here.

russ99
05-05-2008, 09:14 PM
This team is better than 2007 - a lot better in terms of talent. The pitching is clearly better.
The concern is that the dips from the veteran core (Thome, Dye, PK, AJ, Crede) are real and lasting, and not blips.
It looks like that Cabrera trade was horrible, unless the draft picks are there for us (does someone actually have to sign Cabrera for the Sox to get comp?).
The bench contains 2 utility infielders (one is enough) and the starting lineup contains 2 not-too-good hitting SS (Uribe and Cabrera). That's an unabalanced roster. With Ozzie as manager, there will simply always be a few (too many) slap hitting swing at everything types hanging around - to Ozzie they are aggressive and fearless; and they will be an offensive anchor.

I have no problem with slap hitters. We have a much bigger problem with these sluggers trying to do too much and yank one each at bat. When I see Paulie or Thome shorten their swings and go opposite field to drive in a guy, then I'll start ripping on the slap hitters.

tstrike2000
05-05-2008, 09:14 PM
On a positive note, the division is bunched up. They can still contend for a long while.

Without consistent offense, for how long?

JB98
05-05-2008, 09:14 PM
We would have had Owens available if management wasn't so stupid and called up a long man that we didn't need with the Thursday day off. Owens could have pinch run for Paulie and BA could have hit there in the 9th.

Personally, I would have recalled Fields for this weekend. Still, I understand why the Sox recalled Russell. It just backfired.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:14 PM
Bill Melton just said the Sox couldn't hit Bozo the Clown right now.
They might be able to hit Bozo, but I doubt they'd be able to hit Cookie.

gobears1987
05-05-2008, 09:15 PM
I have had enough of this ****. These guys are professional players. They better ****ing learn how to hit the ****ing ball. Another wasted start.

ElevenUp
05-05-2008, 09:15 PM
I really appreciate what he did in the 9th inning of game 4 in the WS, but I am sick of watching what Uribe has brought to the table for the last 2 years.

Elephant
05-05-2008, 09:15 PM
The WHite SOX just blowed my butt of

35th and Shields
05-05-2008, 09:15 PM
tonight = perfect example of why fields should be on this team. WE HAVE NO BENCH. who are our pinch hitters in most situations? Alexi, Toby, BA

russ99
05-05-2008, 09:16 PM
and if he did run, and was thrown out at the plate, everyone here would be bitching

True. :D:

But our other runner would have moved up on the throw.

MCHSoxFan
05-05-2008, 09:16 PM
I have no problem with slap hitters. We have a much bigger problem with these sluggers trying to do too much and yank one each at bat. When I see Paulie or Thome shorten their swings and go opposite field to drive in a guy, then I'll start ripping on the slap hitters.


They why do people Jerry Owens?!?!

Tragg
05-05-2008, 09:16 PM
I have no problem with slap hitters. We have a much bigger problem with these sluggers trying to do too much and yank one each at bat. When I see Paulie or Thome shorten their swings and go opposite field to drive in a guy, then I'll start ripping on the slap hitters.
The problem is that the Sox' slap hitters don't walk and work the bat poorly.
If Owens could get on base, he would have been up here.

southsideirish71
05-05-2008, 09:16 PM
4 game series, your pitchers as a whole give you a 1.96 ERA. And we get swept.

In the last week we have a 2.93 ERA.

Tomorrow, Walker/Gellinger should be unemployed. Baines should be the hitting coach interm, with Hrniak brought in as a special assistant. Pablo should be DFA'd. Getz should be brought up, as well as Owens. Ramirez should go from the restricted list to AAA.

Crede was dressed on the bench correct, then his butt should of been at the plate instead of Pablo.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 09:16 PM
They why do people Jerry Owens?!?!


Huh?

guillen4life13
05-05-2008, 09:17 PM
If you get a really bad migraine, you get a really bad migraine. I wouldn't want to have a migraine and have to react to a 95 mph baseball and having to deal with bright lighting and loud noise.

I've never been operated on or anything but I've broken a few bones, and I'll still say that I'd prefer the pain from breaking a bone (if it were to last for for 6-8 hours) over a migraine for that time period.

I can't blame Crede for not being able to play.

Dick Allen
05-05-2008, 09:17 PM
Huh?Verbs are overrated.:D:

Domeshot17
05-05-2008, 09:18 PM
They have about another 2 weeks of this crap before you really have to start 2nd guessing if OZzie is the right man to manage this team.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:18 PM
They why do people Jerry Owens?!?!
Are you so angry you're not going to use verbs?

MCHSoxFan
05-05-2008, 09:18 PM
I have no problem with slap hitters. We have a much bigger problem with these sluggers trying to do too much and yank one each at bat. When I see Paulie or Thome shorten their swings and go opposite field to drive in a guy, then I'll start ripping on the slap hitters.


They why do people HATE Jerry Owens?!?!

thomas35forever
05-05-2008, 09:18 PM
:tomatoaward

Parrothead
05-05-2008, 09:19 PM
Interesting to hear the crowd response tomorrow

What crowd? The only sound you are hearing is people jumping off the bandwagon.

SoxandtheCityTee
05-05-2008, 09:19 PM
True. :D:

But our other runner would have moved up on the throw.

I don't think everyone would be bitching. But that's right, there would've been one out and another runner at third.

That's assuming Eckstein would've thrown Uribe out from deep in the hole. Which is not the case.

It's Time
05-05-2008, 09:19 PM
Bill Melton just said the Sox couldn't hit Bozo the Clown right now.


http://500hats.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/03/bozo.jpg
"Not a chance".

35th and Shields
05-05-2008, 09:19 PM
Does anyone else notice that everytime Thome swings it looks he's pulling his head and not even looking at the pitch? He just doesn't appear to be following the ball all the way in lately

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:19 PM
They have about another 2 weeks of this crap before you really have to start 2nd guessing if OZzie is the right man to manage this team.
I think it's fair to second guess Ozzie NOW. I think it is equally fair to question whether or not the guy who built this team should be allowed to construct future Sox teams.

Corlose 15
05-05-2008, 09:20 PM
This team is better than 2007 - a lot better in terms of talent. The pitching is clearly better.
The concern is that the dips from the veteran core (Thome, Dye, PK, AJ, Crede) are real and lasting, and not blips.
It looks like that Cabrera trade was horrible, unless the draft picks are there for us (does someone actually have to sign Cabrera for the Sox to get comp?).
The bench contains 2 utility infielders (one is enough) and the starting lineup contains 2 not-too-good hitting SS (Uribe and Cabrera). That's an unabalanced roster. With Ozzie as manager, there will simply always be a few (too many) slap hitting swing at everything types hanging around - to Ozzie they are aggressive and fearless; and they will be an offensive anchor.

Its too early to judge the Cabrera trade and even so Garland's ERA was over 5 last I saw.

russ99
05-05-2008, 09:20 PM
The problem is that the Sox' slap hitters don't walk and work the bat poorly.
If Owens could get on base, he would have been up here.

That's the rub. We'd plug in an unproven player who could either do well or he could stink. It's a crapshoot.

But at this point, Why not give it a shot? If he looks bad he can be a PH/PR and if he does well he could spark the offense like Pods did when he was healthy. Can't be any worse than Ozuna or Ramirez.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:20 PM
I really appreciate what he did in the 9th inning of game 4 in the WS, but I am sick of watching what Uribe has brought to the table for the last 2 years.

Yeah 2 for 3 tonight and tying up the Oriole game the other night really makes him suck. Look at the rest of the line-up. He's working on a better batting avg. then the "big guns".

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:21 PM
They why do people HATE Jerry Owens?!?!
He struggled a lot last year...his speed is useless if he doesn't get on and he has NO arm in the OF...he looked OK in September and I don't think he can't be any worse than anyone else on this team right now.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 09:21 PM
They have about another 2 weeks of this crap before you really have to start 2nd guessing if OZzie is the right man to manage this team.

Ozzie's average with runners in scoring position is lousy.

whitesoxfan
05-05-2008, 09:22 PM
Disgusting.

I feel so bad for Javy, Mark, John, Gavin, and Jose for having to put up with this garbage. What an embarassment.

:hawk

"Well, they'll start hitting sooner or later." Probably when we're 15 games under .500.

Vernam
05-05-2008, 09:22 PM
Yea but with the shortstop playing deep and when that shortstop's arm is as bad as Eckstein, you HAVE to go. It's not like the infield was in, they were conceding a run (perhaps out of pity) on the infield. It was a stupid player by Uribe, but Uribe is not exactly what one would call a "head's up" player.I agree. Juan definitely misread the play. Once he did, it would've been dumb to go. But that's a far cry from saying he made a heads-up play.

Vernam

TheOldRoman
05-05-2008, 09:22 PM
Does anyone else notice that everytime Thome swings it looks he's pulling his head and not even looking at the pitch? He just doesn't appear to be following the ball all the way in latelyWell, that is all on Thome. He is a professional hitter. You can't expect anyone to give him tips or help him fix his swing. He needs to be a big boy.

JB98
05-05-2008, 09:23 PM
Does anyone else notice that everytime Thome swings it looks he's pulling his head and not even looking at the pitch? He just doesn't appear to be following the ball all the way in lately

Don't worry, Walker will fix it.

Thome's timing is all messed up. There might be a mental issue too. He looks like he's guessing at the plate. Impossible to know that for sure, though, without talking to him.

Sometimes I wish I was covering the White Sox. I would ask better questions than the group of beat writers we have in Chicago.

35th and Shields
05-05-2008, 09:23 PM
Yeah 2 for 3 tonight and tying up the Oriole game the other night really makes him suck. Look at the rest of the line-up. He's working on a better batting avg. then the "big guns".

I'll take my chances with the big guns over uribe any day

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:24 PM
Yeah 2 for 3 tonight and tying up the Oriole game the other night really makes him suck. Look at the rest of the line-up. He's working on a better batting avg. then the "big guns".
He made a stupid play today which cost us a run, Uribe is only on this team because we have no other alternative at second base and is usually (he's hitting about .100, so about 9/10) an automatic out...as soon as we get someone who can play second base, Uribe should be gone.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:27 PM
He made a stupid play today which cost us a run, Uribe is only on this team because we have no other alternative at second base and is usually (he's hitting about .100, so about 9/10) an automatic out...as soon as we get someone who can play second base, Uribe should be gone.

Once again, blaming Uribe for tonight's lose is asinine.

southsideirish71
05-05-2008, 09:27 PM
If you get a really bad migraine, you get a really bad migraine. I wouldn't want to have a migraine and have to react to a 95 mph baseball and having to deal with bright lighting and loud noise.

I've never been operated on or anything but I've broken a few bones, and I'll still say that I'd prefer the pain from breaking a bone (if it were to last for for 6-8 hours) over a migraine for that time period.

I can't blame Crede for not being able to play.

BJ Ryan is topping out around 88/89 coming off of his injury.

I have had a compound fracture and I have had migranes before. Sign me up for the migrane over the compound fracture.

35th and Shields
05-05-2008, 09:29 PM
He made a stupid play today which cost us a run, Uribe is only on this team because we have no other alternative at second base and is usually (he's hitting about .100, so about 9/10) an automatic out...as soon as we get someone who can play second base, Uribe should be gone.
:worship::praying:
Dear God, please make Richar our savior and relieve us of future years of our current "defensive specialist"

southsideirish71
05-05-2008, 09:29 PM
Once again, blaming Uribe for tonight's lose is asinine.

Toronto concedes the run by playing back on ball. A ground ball is hit, and he freezes. It was a team effort for this turd from the offensive standpoint, but Uribe's baserunning was Mustang league-ish.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:30 PM
Once again, blaming Uribe for tonight's lose is asinine.
I'm not blaming him, but to deny that he didn't play a part in our loss (especially with that bad baserunning play) would be equally asinine, perhaps naieve is the better word.

Soxman219
05-05-2008, 09:31 PM
4 game series, your pitchers as a whole give you a 1.96 ERA. And we get swept.

In the last week we have a 2.93 ERA.

Tomorrow, Walker/Gellinger should be unemployed. Baines should be the hitting coach interm, with Hrniak brought in as a special assistant. Pablo should be DFA'd. Getz should be brought up, as well as Owens. Ramirez should go from the restricted list to AAA.

Crede was dressed on the bench correct, then his butt should of been at the plate instead of Pablo.

Are you serious! That low of an ERA! :tantrum::angry:.

When is Walker going to get fired?

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:32 PM
I'm not blaming him, but to deny that he didn't play a part in our loss (especially with that bad baserunning play) would be equally asinine, perhaps naieve is the better word.

He had 2 of the whopping 4 hits we had tonight. He was on and no one could get him in.

Blueprint1
05-05-2008, 09:34 PM
Are you serious! That low of an ERA! :tantrum::angry:.

When is Walker going to get fired?


Jerry is very loyal so people he likes and I think Walker might be one of these people.

Woofer
05-05-2008, 09:36 PM
I know everyone who gets migraines has different symptoms. If Crede has migraines like I've always had them, with blind spots and crazy flashing going in and out of your field of vision, he probably could not see a pitched ball well enough to even time his swing, let alone make contact. Migraines are no fun and leave you physically drained even after the pain subsides.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 09:37 PM
aEmsjyUrslk

GPYOf-P4Hlo

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:37 PM
He had 2 of the whopping 4 hits we had tonight. He was on and no one could get him in.
Cabrera would have driven him in had Uribe decided to go...he didn't. It still doesn't excuse the lack of offense, but it shouldn't let Uribe off the hook either.

DickAllen72
05-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Interesting to hear the crowd response tomorrow
What crowd? :cool:

SoxandtheCityTee
05-05-2008, 09:38 PM
Toronto concedes the run by playing back on ball. A ground ball is hit, and he freezes. It was a team effort for this turd from the offensive standpoint, but Uribe's baserunning was Mustang league-ish.

Yes. I didn't blame Uribe (alone) for tonight's loss. I commented on his baserunning, which was bad. And that is not assinine.

voodoochile
05-05-2008, 09:39 PM
What crowd? :cool:

Why'd you use the cool smilie for that reply? :dunno:

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:39 PM
Jerry is very loyal so people he likes and I think Walker might be one of these people.
I think it's more Ozzie's choice than Jerry's.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2008, 09:40 PM
I'm sure that Uribe's base running freeze was caused in part by the team wide slump. He probably thought for a brief nano-second, "what if I get thrown out?"

When you are playing well and aren't under the gun, you don't think, you react.

Not saying the loss was his fault just saying that under different circumstances he probably breaks on the swing and scores but right now the pressure is like an 800 pound weight on all of them.

Lip

TheCommander
05-05-2008, 09:40 PM
They might be able to hit Bozo, but I doubt they'd be able to hit Cookie.

What about Wizzo?

Lip Man 1
05-05-2008, 09:41 PM
Or Ray Rayner.

Lip

Soxman219
05-05-2008, 09:41 PM
Jerry is very loyal so people he likes and I think Walker might be one of these people.

What about the fans? We've been watching bad baseball since the 2nd half of 2006! That's almost two years! When will we see changes that will help the team and put us to perninial contenders?:(:

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:41 PM
What about Wizzo?
They'd have no prayer with Wizzo on the bump. We'd beat Santana before we'd beat Wizzo.

Vernam
05-05-2008, 09:41 PM
As paying customer (I have partial season-tickets), my biggest concern with the organization is they seem to think they are above reproach. KW, Ozzie, the players, everybody seems to think they have an unlimited amount of political capital because of their success in 2005.That's exactly what I was getting at. No right-thinking fan wants knee-jerk changes every time the team hits a rough patch. But this core has been failing to get it done for three years. Enough. I don't know what else Ozzie and Kenny need to see, what else they're waiting for. I don't think those two are dumb, so arrogance is a reasonable explanation.

If I was doing poorly at my job today, I would be fired, even if I did my job exceptionally well three years ago. The world is "What have you done for me lately?" place. All this ranting about the media and the fans turning their backs on the Sox, it's a bunch of phooey. I'm still watching every game. I'm still cheering for my team. That doesn't mean I think they are doing their jobs well. If I was doing so poorly at my job, I would be held accountable, and I'm sure it is the same way for most folks here.Also exactly what I was getting at. These guys are not dogging it, and I'm sure it's killing them. But too bad. People who work hard are held accountable every day in ways far harsher than getting platooned or benched outright on an MLB roster. I've got no sympathy whatsoever for them at this point. The fans paying for tickets are the only ones to feel sorry for right now.

Vernam

kittle42
05-05-2008, 09:42 PM
Congrats, Sox. It took until late June last season for me not to care, but you've got me over half way there already!

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:42 PM
What about the fans? We've been watching bad baseball since the 2nd half of 2006! That's almost two years! When will we see changes that will help the team and put us to perninial contenders?:(:
Jerry doesn't make his descions based upon fan's opinions. He will do what HE thinks is best for the team, sometimes it works out other times it doesn't. But Jerry isn't going to fire a guy just because a bunch of people are calling for his head.

RadioheadRocks
05-05-2008, 09:43 PM
What about Wizzo?

He needs to wave the Stone of Zanzibar over this team right about now.

A. Cavatica
05-05-2008, 09:43 PM
Right now, I could puzzle our hitters and I throw about fifty.

Is that you, Shingo?

Woofer
05-05-2008, 09:44 PM
What crowd? :cool:
Well my family and I will be there tomorrow. We will probably spend alot of our time in the Pontiac Fundamentals deck, where hopefully we will see some of the Sox trying to get some practice in. (Teal)

TomBradley72
05-05-2008, 09:44 PM
Coming into tonight's game...over the past seven days (Twins/Jays series) our team ERA was 2.82..4th best in the American League...our record? 0-5, now 0-6 while having a combined ERA of probably 2.40 after tonight's debacle.

Our hitting? .184 team average., w/12 runs scored with a .256 OBP and 1 stolen base. Riveting.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:45 PM
Is that you, Shingo?
I'd KILL to throw as hard as Shingo did!

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:46 PM
Coming into tonight's game...over the past seven days (Twins/Jays series) our team ERA was 2.82..4th best in the American League...our record? 0-5, now 0-6 while having a combined ERA of probably 2.40 after tonight's debacle.

Our hitting? .184 team average., w/12 runs scored with a .256 OBP and 1 stolen base. Riveting.
That's Chicago tough!

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:46 PM
Coming into tonight's game...over the past seven days (Twins/Jays series) our team ERA was 2.82..4th best in the American League...our record? 0-5, now 0-6 while having a combined ERA of probably 2.40 after tonight's debacle.

Our hitting? .184 team average., w/12 runs scored with a .256 OBP and 1 stolen base. Riveting.

So why are people bashing Juan, the offensive leader of the game? :scratch:

Jerko
05-05-2008, 09:47 PM
Coming into tonight's game...over the past seven days (Twins/Jays series) our team ERA was 2.82..4th best in the American League...our record? 0-5, now 0-6 while having a combined ERA of probably 2.40 after tonight's debacle.

Our hitting? .184 team average., w/12 runs scored with a .256 OBP and 1 stolen base. Riveting.

If we could just start hitting BAD we'd be ok. :o: This is other-worldly.

Soxman219
05-05-2008, 09:48 PM
Coming into tonight's game...over the past seven days (Twins/Jays series) our team ERA was 2.82..4th best in the American League...our record? 0-5, now 0-6 while having a combined ERA of probably 2.40 after tonight's debacle.

Our hitting? .184 team average., w/12 runs scored with a .256 OBP and 1 stolen base. Riveting.

I think I'm going to be sick!
:puking:

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 09:48 PM
So why are people bashing Juan, the offensive leader of the game? :scratch:
Because he made a poor baserunning descion and he has played CONSISTENTLY unsound baseball since the second half of '06...for what it's worth Rongey recieved a text from someone on the team (he wouldn't say who) that said "Except a change for tommorrow. There are whispers of change" and mentioned Uribe. What that means? Who knows. But it will be interesting to see.

BadBobbyJenks
05-05-2008, 09:49 PM
What a ****ing joke.

You cant waste pitching performances like this even occasionally let alone back to back starts from Javy.

JB98
05-05-2008, 09:51 PM
That's exactly what I was getting at. No right-thinking fan wants knee-jerk changes every time the team hits a rough patch. But this core has been failing to get it done for three years. Enough. I don't know what else Ozzie and Kenny need to see, what else they're waiting for. I don't think those guys are dumb, so arrogance is about the only explanation.

To be fair, though, I don't think they can make changes right now. Not a lot of trades to be made in May.

I think Kenny and Ozzie are stubborn. Sometimes, being stubborn is a good thing. But when you're stubborn, you better be right. Otherwise, you dig yourself a hole.

Maybe this club will turn it around in the next couple months. I wouldn't bank on it, but I've been watching baseball long enough to know that surprising things can happen. I'm not going to give up on them.

However, if we find ourselves below .500 in July, I will call for major changes. I don't think Kenny and Ozzie are dumb either. In fact, I think they are quite the opposite. They are smart men, but they are stubborn. They will exhaust every option to try to prove their critics wrong.

Soxfest
05-05-2008, 09:51 PM
The White Sox are 7-for-61 (.115) with runners in scoring position over the past nine games.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:52 PM
Because he made a poor baserunning descion and he has played CONSISTENTLY unsound baseball since the second half of '06...for what it's worth Rongey recieved a text from someone on the team (he wouldn't say who) that said "Except a change for tommorrow. There are whispers of change" and mentioned Uribe. What that means? Who knows. But it will be interesting to see.

So I guess we'll see. Enough said.

DickAllen72
05-05-2008, 09:52 PM
Why'd you use the cool smilie for that reply? :dunno:
It's the closest one I could find with a smirk indicating sarcasm without the use of teal. I figured teal is more the type of sarcasm of which you type something that is the opposite of what you believe to be true, whereas the smirk indicates you are stating something that is probably true out of disgust. The point being that the way they are playing I doubt they will draw a big crowd and I'm pretty depressed about the way this is panning out, hence the sarcastic smirk.

I probably should have used the rolleyes but I didn't want to come across as being insulting or condescending to the poster.

Edit: On second thought, I probably should have just used :(: but I wanted to keep it light.

soltrain21
05-05-2008, 09:53 PM
They have about another 2 weeks of this crap before you really have to start 2nd guessing if OZzie is the right man to manage this team.

The team is poorly constructed no matter who the manager is.

Frankfan4life
05-05-2008, 09:55 PM
Crede is out with a migraine.I can figure out how he got one.

CLR01
05-05-2008, 09:56 PM
Because he made a poor baserunning descion and he has played CONSISTENTLY unsound baseball since the second half of '06...for what it's worth Rongey recieved a text from someone on the team (he wouldn't say who) that said "Except a change for tommorrow. There are whispers of change" and mentioned Uribe. What that means? Who knows. But it will be interesting to see.

*Later on at the airport*

:KW
"Did you guys here that? I think we have a flat tire, Juan go outside and check."

:uribe:

"Okay"

:KW

"GO...go...goooooo.....



:praying:

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:56 PM
I can figure out how he got one.

:gulp:are stronger in Canada.

Vernam
05-05-2008, 09:57 PM
Because he made a poor baserunning descion and he has played CONSISTENTLY unsound baseball since the second half of '06...for what it's worth Rongey recieved a text from someone on the team (he wouldn't say who) that said "Except a change for tommorrow. There are whispers of change" and mentioned Uribe. What that means? Who knows. But it will be interesting to see.Josh Fields at 2B!

Vernam

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 09:59 PM
I guess bringing that extra bullpen pitcher helped.

Viva Medias B's
05-05-2008, 09:59 PM
How the hell do we lose three consecutive games in which our pitcher pitched a complete game? I think the last time we had that many consecutive complete games was the 2005 ALCS, and I recall the outcome of those games rather positive.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 09:59 PM
How the hell do we lose three consecutive games in which our pitcher pitched a complete game? I think the last time we had that many consecutive complete games was the 2005 ALCS, and I recall the outcome of those games rather positive.

Vazquez didn't pitch a complete game.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 10:00 PM
*Later on at the airport*

:KW
"Did you guys here that? I think we have a flat tire, Juan go outside and check."

:uribe:

"Okay"

:KW

"GO...go...goooooo.....



:praying:
:gulp:

as I said earlier and as is being discussed in WTS, Rongey said there are "whispers of change" regarding Uribe. Presumably this info came from Cowley however.

jdm2662
05-05-2008, 10:02 PM
*Later on at the airport*

:KW
"Did you guys here that? I think we have a flat tire, Juan go outside and check."

:uribe:

"Okay"

:KW

"GO...go...goooooo.....



:praying:

That's a clever way of doing it. Quite honostly, I'd like half of the line-up to got with him, but that's not fesible...

TheOldRoman
05-05-2008, 10:04 PM
The team is poorly constructed no matter who the manager is.I completely disagree. This team is playing terribly right now. The pitching has been very good, but they can't hit a lick. Brining Swisher, Quentin, and Cabrera were good moves. Swisher has been ice cold lately, but he was really big for us earlier on. Cabrera is a good player, and didn't suddenly fall off the face of the earth. Nobody is hitting right now. If you are clamoring for Fields, you might want to check his stats against AAA competition. Toby Hall probably shouldn't be on the team, but he has actually been hitting lately. Buffet tables need to be flipped, Walker needs to be fired, and cages need to be rattled. This team may not be a champion, but it is not poorly constructed.

kittle42
05-05-2008, 10:08 PM
So why are people bashing Juan, the offensive leader of the game? :scratch:

This is a bogus argument. Two hits in a game does not take a guy from being the worst player on the team and possibly the worst starting player in the AL to being free from criticism.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2008, 10:09 PM
I completely disagree. This team is playing terribly right now. The pitching has been very good, but they can't hit a lick. Brining Swisher, Quentin, and Cabrera were good moves. Swisher has been ice cold lately, but he was really big for us earlier on. Cabrera is a good player, and didn't suddenly fall off the face of the earth. Nobody is hitting right now. If you are clamoring for Fields, you might want to check his stats against AAA competition. Toby Hall probably shouldn't be on the team, but he has actually been hitting lately. Buffet tables need to be flipped, Walker needs to be fired, and cages need to be rattled. This team may not be a champion, but it is not poorly constructed.
I think the only argument that I can make towards it being poorly constructed is that this is a team that can't execute the fundamentals and can't manufacture runs...all the moves Kenny has made over the off season were good ones (even though there were some other moves I wish he'd made)...Kenny can flip as many tables as he wants and he can rattle some cages but at the end of the day that isn't going to make this team any better. I think that Kenny is just as accountable for this team's struggles as Ozzie is.

russ99
05-05-2008, 10:10 PM
I completely disagree. This team is playing terribly right now. The pitching has been very good, but they can't hit a lick. Brining Swisher, Quentin, and Cabrera were good moves. Swisher has been ice cold lately, but he was really big for us earlier on. Cabrera is a good player, and didn't suddenly fall off the face of the earth. Nobody is hitting right now. If you are clamoring for Fields, you might want to check his stats against AAA competition. Toby Hall probably shouldn't be on the team, but he has actually been hitting lately. Buffet tables need to be flipped, Walker needs to be fired, and cages need to be rattled. This team may not be a champion, but it is not poorly constructed.

And while Ozzie and Kenny are sometimes perceived as arrogant, neither wants a repeat of last year. While a knee-jerk reaction probably won't be coming yet, some improvement has to happen during the Twins series or Walker will be gone and moves will be made.

Viva Medias B's
05-05-2008, 10:10 PM
Vazquez didn't pitch a complete game.

Rongey must have misled me. When I got into the car after work which was after the game ended, I thought I heard him say we had three consecutive complete games.

soxwon
05-05-2008, 10:11 PM
Glad we called Russell up for this series.

alexi woulda won us 2 of these games-no doubt.

A. Cavatica
05-05-2008, 10:14 PM
The team is poorly constructed no matter who the manager is.

Just 'cause the team is poorly constructed doesn't make Ozzie a good manager. I figure a manager should:

- make good personnel/lineup decisions
- make good tactical moves
- be a steadying, positive influence in the clubhouse
- hire good coaches who can help players improve
- win games

Does Ozzie make good personnel decisions? No, he's awful. Mackowiak in center, Anderson at DH, Ozuna/Gload/Fields in the outfield, Andy Gonzalez having a job come to mind.

Does he make good tactical moves? Sometimes, but he's pretty bad. Calling for a sac bunt with none out with the Sox down two on the road (a couple of days ago) was pure idiocy.

Is he a steadying influence? No. He was a breath of fresh air after Jerry Manuel, but he's very inconsistent and a bit wacky. He can be loyal to his players, but he can throw them under the bus too. The rants about the Cubs and the media and the fans don't help.

Has he hired good coaches? Apparently not. He's hired cronies like Walker, Cora, Baines. The team sucks at fundamentals, even though Ozzie pays lip service to them every spring. They can't bunt, they can't run the bases, they can't execute a rundown.

As for winning, the team's gone downhill very fast since 2005.

Ozzie still has his job only because JR is loyal to him. He doesn't deserve it.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 10:14 PM
alexi woulda won us 2 of these games-no doubt.

Da Rev has been slacking. If he had blessed us with one of his sermons, we'd still be in first place...


:redneck

soxwon
05-05-2008, 10:18 PM
Da Rev has been slacking. If he had blessed us with one of his sermons, we'd still be in first place...


:redneck

in all honesty, it'll take more than Da Rev to get this team going.
Maybe tommorow.

BadBobbyJenks
05-05-2008, 10:18 PM
You remember when we were talking about Gavin Floyd, Contreras and Danks being the question marks that need answering.

A month later and look at what we have, a rotation doing more than just keeping us in every game, they are dominating.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 10:19 PM
This is a bogus argument. Two hits in a game does not take a guy from being the worst player on the team and possibly the worst starting player in the AL to being free from criticism.

Unfortunately Chase Utley is not available.

hi im skot
05-05-2008, 10:19 PM
in all honesty, it'll take more than Da Rev to get this team going.
Maybe tommorow.

We need Da Rev, now more than ever.

Hitmen77
05-05-2008, 10:25 PM
Tomorrow will be NINE days since the Sox last won a game.....(and it feels like 9 weeks to me:(:).

:angry: and :whiner: is how I feel.

MetroPD
05-05-2008, 10:30 PM
Well its sure is nice to have Pablo playing third everyonce in awhile instead of that scrub Josh Fields......

AZChiSoxFan
05-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Tha's okay, I'm mad enough for both of us. :angry::angry::angry::angry:



Vernam

You know, I'm not even mad anymore. I have simply come to EXPECT this team to never score, so I'm not the least bit surprised when they do. And if the powers that be don't seem to care, then why should I? BTW, who was that GM who stated that one more outburst out of OG and he was gone? I could have sworn his initials were KW?

DickAllen72
05-05-2008, 10:32 PM
So, uh we gonna bring back Carl Everett or what?
I'd like to see Carl come back as a coach and give this team a needed kick in the ass.

Vernam
05-05-2008, 10:33 PM
You remember when we were talking about Gavin Floyd, Contreras and Danks being the question marks that need answering.

A month later and look at what we have, a rotation doing more than just keeping us in every game, they are dominating.In a nutshell, that's why this season is worth salvaging. If the pitching were less than stellar, I'd probably accept a rebuilding phase starting next month, assuming our lineup doesn't do a 180-degree reversal that few of us think is likely.

But at the moment, our rotation can hang with anyone's. They deserve way better than what they've been getting out of this offense.

Vernam

AZChiSoxFan
05-05-2008, 10:34 PM
I'm sure that Uribe's base running freeze was caused in part by the team wide slump. He probably thought for a brief nano-second, "what if I get thrown out?"

When you are playing well and aren't under the gun, you don't think, you react.

Not saying the loss was his fault just saying that under different circumstances he probably breaks on the swing and scores but right now the pressure is like an 800 pound weight on all of them.

Lip

Then why do we hear ad naseum about how Ozzie's "style" leads to a loose clubhouse?

Hitmen77
05-05-2008, 10:37 PM
Sorry if it was mentioned already, but is there any reason why Crede wasn't brought in to PH for Ozuna in the 9th?

itsnotrequired
05-05-2008, 10:37 PM
Sorry if it was mentioned already, but is there any reason why Crede wasn't brought in to PH for Ozuna in the 9th?

migraine

PhillipsBubba
05-05-2008, 10:47 PM
Boys, boys, boys...don't you remember...Hawkeroo said Pablo was the guy we missed most of all last year...:scratch:

GlassSox
05-05-2008, 10:51 PM
Boys, boys, boys...don't you remember...Hawkeroo said Pablo was the guy we missed most of all last year...:scratch:

"Come on ball 4 base hit.......dag gummit"

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2008, 11:16 PM
Boys, boys, boys...don't you remember...Hawkeroo said Pablo was the guy we missed most of all last year...:scratch:


Add that one to the list of pathetic crap Ass Clown Hawk keeps mumbling in that booth.

Right next to another one:

"DJ, big key to this team is what the Sox can get out Mike MacDougal this year"

jabrch
05-05-2008, 11:39 PM
Boys, boys, boys...don't you remember...Hawkeroo said Pablo was the guy we missed most of all last year...:scratch:

Wow...

You blame Pablo for today? That's just pathetic. Put the blame where it belongs. Our 6 best hitters combined for 1 hit. It isn't Pablo's fault.

sox1970
05-05-2008, 11:43 PM
Wow...

You blame Pablo for today? That's just pathetic. Put the blame where it belongs. Our 6 best hitters combined for 1 hit. It isn't Pablo's fault.

Yeah, nevermind that Ozuna swung at the first pitch after Ryan walked the bases loaded, can't bunt for a hit worth a ****, and can't field ANY position very well. He really brings a ton to the team.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 11:43 PM
Wow...

You blame Pablo for today? That's just pathetic. Put the blame where it belongs. Our 6 best hitters combined for 1 hit. It isn't Pablo's fault.

I would have liked to at least try a squeeze tonight. And that lays in Ozzies lap.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2008, 11:45 PM
Wow...

You blame Pablo for today? That's just pathetic. Put the blame where it belongs. Our 6 best hitters combined for 1 hit. It isn't Pablo's fault.


Pablo should not be blamed because everyone in their right mind other than management and Hawk realize that he sucks at baseball.

kittle42
05-05-2008, 11:45 PM
Yeah, nevermind that Ozuna swung at the first pitch after Ryan walked the bases loaded, can't bunt for a hit worth a ****, and can't field ANY position very well. He really brings a ton to the team.

Actually, he took a called strike first pitch.

JB98
05-05-2008, 11:45 PM
I would have liked to at least try a squeeze tonight. And that lays in Ozzies lap.

No.

On the road, you play to take the lead. Not to tie the game.

jabrch
05-05-2008, 11:46 PM
Yeah, nevermind that Ozuna swung at the first pitch after Ryan walked the bases loaded, can't bunt for a hit worth a ****, and can't field ANY position very well. He really brings a ton to the team.

So YOU blame Pablo for a loss on a day when OC, Quentin, Thome, Konerko, Dye and Swisher combine for 1 freaking hit?

That's assinine. Simply assinine.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2008, 11:46 PM
I would have liked to at least try a squeeze tonight. And that lays in Ozzies lap.


We saw that crap once already, no thanks.

sox1970
05-05-2008, 11:47 PM
So YOU blame Pablo for a loss on a day when OC, Quentin, Thome, Konerko, Dye and Swisher combine for 1 freaking hit?

That's assinine. Simply assinine.

Plenty of blame to go around, but Ozuna needs to go.

You spelled asinine wrong, by the way.

jabrch
05-05-2008, 11:51 PM
Plenty of blame to go around, but Ozuna needs to go.

You spelled asinine wrong, by the way.

So I spell poorly...thanks

Did you see Pablo in 2006? I'm not sure why you think he needs to go. Before getting hurt, he was pretty effective, in particular against LHP as a PH. He's not a good defender, but for a guy who comes off the bench once a week, and PH a few times, he can be effective.

I can't see Pablo being anywhere close to the top 10 of this team's problems and I see no way to blame him for today when every single regular starter on our team except Uribe completely sucked.

Chicken Dinner
05-05-2008, 11:52 PM
We saw that crap once already, no thanks.

And it appears Ozzie agrees.

It's Dankerific
05-06-2008, 02:29 AM
I was told on that other post game that its very easy and simple to execute the low risk squeeze play. If it was so easy to squeeze, the fact we did not do that is a HUGE mistake.

WhiteSox5187
05-06-2008, 02:33 AM
I was told on that other post game that its very easy and simple to execute the low risk squeeze play. If it was so easy to squeeze, the fact we did not do that is a HUGE mistake.
If we were at home, we might have seen Ozzie do that but most baseball logic dictates that when you're on the road you play to win the game, at home you play for the tie and try and push it into extras.

It's Dankerific
05-06-2008, 02:35 AM
If we were at home, we might have seen Ozzie do that but most baseball logic dictates that when you're on the road you play to win the game, at home you play for the tie and try and push it into extras.

When scoring a single run seems to be a herculean task for your team, you score the ****ing run.

BadBobbyJenks
05-06-2008, 02:39 AM
Oddly enough I remember hearing how easy it was to score from third with less than 2 outs with out risking the squeeze:redneck

It's Dankerific
05-06-2008, 02:48 AM
Oddly enough I remember hearing how easy it was to score from third with less than 2 outs with out risking the squeeze:redneck

thats damn right. we hear that .280 (this season) Brian Anderson should be bunting because its easy, and Pablo Ozuna who cant hit a ****ing softball this season (but is a decent bunter) shouldnt have laid it down. what a bunch of hypocrites. you can't think the squeeze was the right play a few days ago and not the right play now.

I think its a risky play to squeeze, at any time. but if its not "high risk" and its so easy to bunt, it should have been done. It just shows how many people here are illogical. they pick a position (ie BA sucks, Ozzie and KW are beyond reproach) and run with it.

But ****, we just lost 6 straight while getting phenomenal pitching. one play doesnt matter.

TDog
05-06-2008, 05:10 AM
thats damn right. we hear that .280 (this season) Brian Anderson should be bunting because its easy, and Pablo Ozuna who cant hit a ****ing softball this season (but is a decent bunter) shouldnt have laid it down. what a bunch of hypocrites. you can't think the squeeze was the right play a few days ago and not the right play now. ....


Actually, you can. The squeeze bunt a week ago would have won the game at home. Getting the bunt down in that situation gives you just as much as a home run would. A squeeze bunt last night would have -- if successful -- tied the game on the road. A defensive misplay could have put the Sox in the lead, but when you're losing on the road in your last at bat, you don't design a risky play where the best-case scenario, barring a defensive misplay, only ties the game and leaves you with two outs and needing a base hit or defensive misplay to take the lead. You could have one more runner in scoring position than you would with a sacrifice fly, but if you are swinging away, you have a chance for a hit that would have given you the lead.

In Toronto, it would have had to have been a suicide squeeze, increasing the risks of bunting with the bases loaded, because there was a force at home. You have the inherent risks of a suicide squeeze that begin with the hitter missing the sign and continue with the chance for a missed bunt or a popped-up bunt. (I will bold the following because it is so very, very important for anyone second-guessing the non-bunt call to understand.) There can be no infield fly rule called on a bunt, so a fielder can let a fair popped drop to have a shot at a doubleplay. The squeeze that ended the 2000 ALDS against the White Sox came with the bases loaded and none out, of course, but the score was tied. There is less margin for error on the bunt, as well, because with one out and the bases loaded, a ball bunted back at the pitcher has the potential for a game-ending doubleplay. If the pitcher doesn't have a play at the plate, he still could have a play at third or second.

I can't believe anyone would have argued before the fact that Ozuna should have been bunting even if (like me) they liked the suicide squeeze call but hated the execution a week earlier.

Two points need to be made.

1: A manager should never be criticized for NOT calling a suicide squeeze.

2: The situation in Toronto Monday was so different from the situation against Baltimore that people who professes to believe a suicide squeeze should have been called in the most recent Sox loss risk embarrassing themselves by demonstrating a lack of baseball knowledge.

It's Dankerific
05-06-2008, 05:41 AM
Ozuna is a professional hitter, he should be able to get a bunt down and probably get a bunt single.

I get what you are saying about the inherent risks, but the chances of a DP would have to only be home to first since everyone should be running on the pitch.

I just don't quite understand this: people want the suicide bunt when there are no force plays and therefore you are guaranteed 2 batters to win. in this situation with a possible GIDP and a free swinger, you don't want a bunt. I don't see a quantifiable risk difference. in fact, we need to score one run in that situation MORE than we needed it in baltimore. a missed opportunity in baltimore means another inning, a missed opportunity in toronto means game over.

you made some good logical points, but when you assume a) bunting is easy, b) a squeeze play is not high risk and c) every professional hitter should be able to get the bunt down then the difference is zero. however, in the real world where both plays are HIGH risk and as mentioned before, in baltimore you had 2 chances to score, the first chance without benefit of a hit, the bunt play is bad baseball in both situations.

santo=dorf
05-06-2008, 06:27 AM
Oh, so that's why the Blue Jays decided to keep Matt Stairs. I see despite a .250ish BA Shannon Stewart still kills the Sox.

LITTLE NELL
05-06-2008, 06:43 AM
This team has not done a thing since July of 06, we are 28 games under .500 in that span. Its time to make drastic changes. Fire the mansager, fire the players, fire the GM, fire the coaches. DO SOMETHING. The sad part is the great starting pitching. dont fire them.

turners56
05-06-2008, 07:07 AM
White Sox Baseball: So Bad That You'll Get To The Point Where You Can't Get Mad Anymore!

I think I'm depressed more than mad...

turners56
05-06-2008, 07:08 AM
This team has not done a thing since July of 06, we are 28 games under .500 in that span. Its time to make drastic changes. Fire the mansager, fire the players, fire the GM, fire the coaches. DO SOMETHING. The sad part is the great starting pitching. dont fire them.

Lol fire the players. How bad the team is right now is beyond any words I can say, they're finding every single way not to score. It's like Uribe's feet were stuck in cement and Ozuna wanted to hit the ball right back at B.J. Ryan, I've never seen a team suck this much. Even last year's team scored at least a couple of runs per game, this team can't even score one right now.

The sad as hell thing is, this team can win all these games. The pitching has been great, if a team can't score a run for their pitcher in order to get a ND, I don't know what to say, it's just sad. It isn't like McGowan is unhittable, he's the kind of guy the Sox should feed off of, instead we make him look like Cy McGowan. Jeff Cox and especially Juan Uribe screwed that 3rd inning over and then went on to screw the Sox because McGowan got a boat load of confidence after that and mowed us down. Did I forget to mention it's time Owens comes up here? Cabrera saw a total of like 10 pitches yesterday in 4 at bats. What kind of a leadoff hitter is that?

alohafri
05-06-2008, 07:15 AM
Ozuna is a fraud.

Why he's on this team is beyond me. Bring up Getz. Keep Uribe on the bench.

Ozzie loves guys who can play 6 different positions! If he had his way, we would have Ryan Freel as well!

Ozuna and Uribe both need to be gone!

asg2003ws2005
05-06-2008, 07:23 AM
Don't quote posts which caused warnings to be issuedi thought grandma bought those tix for you?

Tragg
05-06-2008, 07:55 AM
Ozzie loves guys who can play 6 different positions!
That's exactly right.
All of these utility players are really 3rd string talent at any one position. You need 1 of them, not 3.

During the slump, the players we have with patience aren't showing much patience. I wonder if "being aggressive" is wearing off on them. Sure hope not.

alohafri
05-06-2008, 08:10 AM
Cue dark clouds

Are you kidding me? Have you watched this team for the past year and a half?

sox1970
05-06-2008, 08:13 AM
Are you kidding me? Have you watched this team for the past year and a half?

Since July 7, 2006 the Sox are 120-149.

alohafri
05-06-2008, 08:15 AM
Migraine...Migraine? Crede take two aspirin and get your ass in the game. I've got a migraine watching this crap the past 6 days.

A migraine is not just a bad headache where you can take two aspirin and go on with your job.

MushMouth
05-06-2008, 09:31 AM
Great game by Javy.


There was a point where I thought our 3-4-5 of Thome/Paulie/Dye was the best in the league. Now they really might be the least effective in the American league. Pretty sad state of affairs on offense (and I'm not putting all the blame on those guys, but it's just indicative of how badly things have turned out).

MsSoxVixen22
05-06-2008, 10:33 AM
I just wanted to :whiner:after last night's game. Pablo can't even get a base hit and Javy pitches a hell of a game and doesn't get the win. Javy, this one's for you ! :gulp:Let's hope coming home for a series against the Twinkies will bring them out of it!

VeeckAsInWreck
05-06-2008, 10:38 AM
xJdCglISowo

The White Sox are poo-poo heads.

That video always cracks me up. Thanks for posting this I needed a laugh.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-06-2008, 10:49 AM
Pablo Ozuna should not have to take the brunt of it all for the whole team. If it was AJ who made the last out would everyone be packing his bags? I don't think so.

Last night sucked. Javy pitched his butt off and got nothing to show for it. Our "offense" is making all opposing pitchers look like Jake Peavy. This has just been one ugly week for the Sox. I can only hope that they are putting it behind them and bust out the bats tonight.

In the meantime I want to dedicate this song to all the folks who are taking last night's loss way too hard.

0l-GpISGBFY

TDog
05-06-2008, 01:56 PM
Ozuna is a professional hitter, he should be able to get a bunt down and probably get a bunt single.

I get what you are saying about the inherent risks, but the chances of a DP would have to only be home to first since everyone should be running on the pitch.

I just don't quite understand this: people want the suicide bunt when there are no force plays and therefore you are guaranteed 2 batters to win. in this situation with a possible GIDP and a free swinger, you don't want a bunt. I don't see a quantifiable risk difference. in fact, we need to score one run in that situation MORE than we needed it in baltimore. a missed opportunity in baltimore means another inning, a missed opportunity in toronto means game over.

you made some good logical points, but when you assume a) bunting is easy, b) a squeeze play is not high risk and c) every professional hitter should be able to get the bunt down then the difference is zero. however, in the real world where both plays are HIGH risk and as mentioned before, in baltimore you had 2 chances to score, the first chance without benefit of a hit, the bunt play is bad baseball in both situations.

If you are sending all three runners on a suicide squeeze -- essentially putting on the triple steal -- the play is even riskier. While you stay out of the doubleplay on a ground ball, you run the risk of running into a doubleplay on a missed bunt. I have never seen all three runners going on a bases-loaded suicide squeeze, probably because if the runner on third misses the sign and the runner on second does not, you have big problem.

I once heard Art Kusnyer say that in the minor leagues, he saw a tripleplay that began without anyone hitting the ball. A few months later, I saw the Phillies swing and miss into a tripleplay. Bad things can happen when you send runners and the hitter doesn't execute.

Obviously, swinging away with the bases loaded and one out held a high enough risk that it ended the game. Risk is balanced by potential reward. The bunt was a better call against Baltimore because it didn't risk losing the game at that point. It isn't even a question of bunting it fair, as many have noted, because the hitter is supposed to foul it off if he can't get it done fair. The play against Baltimore had greater potential reward and lower risk.

If you are still criticizing the play call against Baltimore, get over it. With the outfielders playing shallow in a game-ending situation they are cutting off bloopers and any caught fly ball can become an inning-ending doubleplay.

In Toronto, both the Jays and White Sox failed to get runners home from third with no one out. Scoring runners from third with one out isn't automatic. It certainly hasn't been this week for the White Sox. Opponents seem to be better at scoring them from third with two outs than with none out, but the White Sox can't seem to do that at all.

fuzzy_patters
05-06-2008, 02:06 PM
Reading this thread, I have seen a lot of complaining about the Ozuna at bat at the end of the game. Our utility infielder grounded into a game-ending double play against their closer. It happens. In fact, it is expected to happen. There is a reason why Ozuna is a role player and Ryan is a closer. Besides, even the best hitters ground into double plays. It is part of baseball.

On the other hand, the real story of this game was Uribe failing to score from third on the groundball to shortstop in the third inning. While Ozuna's failure was tied to ability, Uribe's failure was caused by a mental error. Even major leaguers will ground into double plays, but I cannot accept a major league player making mental errors on the bases. It is even more unacceptable when the guy making the mistakes is only hitting .181 after a 2 for 3 night.

DickAllen72
05-06-2008, 03:40 PM
Reading this thread, I have seen a lot of complaining about the Ozuna at bat at the end of the game. Our utility infielder grounded into a game-ending double play against their closer. It happens. In fact, it is expected to happen. There is a reason why Ozuna is a role player and Ryan is a closer. Besides, even the best hitters ground into double plays. It is part of baseball.

On the other hand, the real story of this game was Uribe failing to score from third on the groundball to shortstop in the third inning. While Ozuna's failure was tied to ability, Uribe's failure was caused by a mental error. Even major leaguers will ground into double plays, but I cannot accept a major league player making mental errors on the bases. It is even more unacceptable when the guy making the mistakes is only hitting .181 after a 2 for 3 night.
Good post.

I don't blame Ozuna at all for yesterday's loss. In fact, I've been one of his biggest fans since he's been with the Sox. It does seem to me, however, that he has lost maybe a half step since his injury and maybe he's just rusty but it seems as if it may be time to move him along, especially if they are also planning on keeping Ramirez on the bench with the big club. His defense has seemed to slip, he's not quite as fast as he was and he hasn't been hitting in his limited ABs. Can't afford both him and Ramirez on the bench at the same time.