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CubsfansareDRUNK
05-04-2008, 03:22 PM
****

JUribe1989
05-04-2008, 03:24 PM
The call had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of this game. That was embarrassing to listen to Hawk complain all damn game, just outright embarrassing. We lost the damn game because we scored in 1 inning.

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:25 PM
The call had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of this game. That was embarrassing to listen to Hawk complain all damn game, just outright embarrassing. We lost the damn game because we scored in 1 inning.

They scored in two, but should of scored in one, nice theory. You must be blind not to call interference. Sox are still sucking, but at least this was off of Halladay, bad calls didn't help, it wasn't all of the umpires' fault, but we sure as hell didn't get any breaks from them.

Domeshot17
05-04-2008, 03:25 PM
The Call sucked, but Jose gave Stairs a cookie to crush, then gives up the single to Wells, then AJ drops the ball at the plate to tag our Stairs.

And our offense still puts up 8 innings of scoreless baseball

This is bad. We need to shake up something. Swisher has to stop leading off. Even if it just switching him and OC in the order, anything

Chicken Dinner
05-04-2008, 03:25 PM
The call had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of this game. That was embarrassing to listen to Hawk complain all damn game, just outright embarrassing. We lost the damn game because we scored in 1 inning.

The call had nothing to do with Jose hanging meat to the next batter.

itsnotrequired
05-04-2008, 03:25 PM
The good news is, only three were stranded today.

:rolleyes:

Soxfest
05-04-2008, 03:26 PM
Sox got screwed bad when they needed a win most..........This one hurts bad under .500 again!

soxfanatlanta
05-04-2008, 03:26 PM
Yawn.

Some different actors, but the same ending to the damn play since 2K6. What a waste of an afternoon.

LITTLE NELL
05-04-2008, 03:26 PM
Another fine pitching performance wasted. Even though we did'nt hit, the 2b umpire gets the blame on this one. We should have won 3-1.

whitesoxfan
05-04-2008, 03:27 PM
Well at least the Twins are losing :shrug:

The Dude
05-04-2008, 03:28 PM
Well the only positive here is that we can leave that sterile environment in Canada and return to the States. That is the one and only positive about this trip down the standings.

soxfanatlanta
05-04-2008, 03:28 PM
The good news is, only three were stranded today.

:rolleyes:

Always the optimist :tongue:

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:28 PM
Well the only positive here is that we can leave that sterile environment in Canada and return to the States. That is the one and only positive about this trip down the standings.

We're not done yet, we got one more game left.

Chicken Dinner
05-04-2008, 03:28 PM
3-4-5 hitters pathetic!

Domeshot17
05-04-2008, 03:29 PM
HaHa, Hawk needs to get off the Soap Box. They made the tag the play of the game.


The play of the game was a few pitches later when Matt " I wasnt good enough to play for the Cubs" Stairs crushed a 2 run double.

NDSox12
05-04-2008, 03:29 PM
Well the only positive here is that we can leave that sterile environment in Canada and return to the States. That is the one and only positive about this trip down the standings.

Except we've got one more there tomorrow....

Jurr
05-04-2008, 03:29 PM
Actually, I am not too disappointed about today. They battled and played better baseball, but it just wasn't in the cards with Halladay pitching.

This is something to build on, and they need to just get a W tomorrow and get things back on track. This upcoming Minnesota series will be huge towards their confidence. 2 of 3 would go a long way towards getting the ship righted.

JB98
05-04-2008, 03:30 PM
Contreras, Pierzynski and Dye lost this game. Not the umpires.

Contreras made bad pitches to Stairs and Wells. Pierzynski failed to handle Swisher's throw to the plate. That fourth run should have NEVER scored. Dye struck out with runners on second and third with no outs. We needed one in and one over there. He didn't get it done.

Beer Can Chicken
05-04-2008, 03:30 PM
The call had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of this game. That was embarrassing to listen to Hawk complain all damn game, just outright embarrassing. We lost the damn game because we scored in 1 inning.

You're right, Hawk's schtick is getting really old. Contreras had Stairs 3-2 and gave him back to back meatballs to hit. After the bad call, there were plays to be made and we didn't make them. All losses cannot be blamed on the umps.

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:30 PM
3-4-5 hitters pathetic!

Dye was absolutely terrible today, outside of his homer and almost-double yesterday, he's looked absolutely pathetic. Thome and Konerko did drive in two runs though.

itsnotrequired
05-04-2008, 03:30 PM
3-4-5 hitters pathetic!

Combined 2-12 today but they did drive two of the three runs.

:shrug:

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:31 PM
You're right, Hawk's schtick is getting really old. Contreras had Stairs 3-2 and gave him back to back meatballs to hit.

The thing we learned today: Matt Stairs pwned Jose Contreras. Matt Stairs rarely pwns anybody.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-04-2008, 03:31 PM
Another fine pitching performance wasted. Even though we did'nt hit, the 2b umpire gets the blame on this one. We should have won 3-1.

Agreed. Yeah, Hawk got annoying with it, but it did make the difference.
Paulie's looking a little better at the plate, but what happened to the hot streaks of AJ and Joe? And Thome??

This **** has got to end some time.:angry:

JB98
05-04-2008, 03:32 PM
3-4-5 hitters pathetic!

Bull****. 5-9 were pathetic.

Thome had an RBI single. Konerko had an RBI double. Then the line stopped moving.

sox1970
05-04-2008, 03:32 PM
Here's the positive:

There is a good chance the AL Central will be within 2 losses of all five teams when this day is over. What's done is done. 5 weeks off the schedule and no harm/no foul.

The Sox starting pitching has been the best in the division all year, and there's no reason why to think it won't stay that way.

They need to change the batting order. Get Thome down to 6; and bring Quentin up to 3.

Fresh start tomorrow. Let's go get 'em.

The Dude
05-04-2008, 03:32 PM
Except we've got one more there tomorrow....

:redface:
Shows how much I've been paying attention to the schedule.
Damn studying for finals.:angry:

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:32 PM
You know what's sad? Our Pythagorean W-L record is 17-12. Our defense has really let us down this year, all of them in real big spots.

white sox bill
05-04-2008, 03:32 PM
The suckage on this team worsens by the day. By yrs end at this rate, every building,house and cornstalk in the state will all be leaning towards 35th and Shields

JermaineDye05
05-04-2008, 03:33 PM
I slept in, and woke up during the 9th. Can someone inform me about the call(s)?

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:34 PM
The suckage on this team worsens by the day. By yrs end at this rate, every building,house and cornstalk in the state will all be leaning towards 35th and Shields

They were actually better today than any of the other days, score wise that is.

Bucky F. Dent
05-04-2008, 03:34 PM
Ozzie has to shake up the order. The hitting is anemic, and has to change!

cheezheadsoxfan
05-04-2008, 03:34 PM
Contreras, Pierzynski and Dye lost this game. Not the umpires.

Dye struck out with runners on second and third with no outs. We needed one in and one over there. He didn't get it done.

We only get the long fly ball with no one on base.:(:

champagne030
05-04-2008, 03:35 PM
3-4-5 hitters pathetic!

Actually, 1-5. We had one ****ing guy in the lineup today hitting above .275. Walks are great, but somebody actually needs to get a hit to have a good inning.

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:35 PM
I slept in, and woke up during the 9th. Can someone inform me about the call(s)?

I think it was Hill who hit a grounder to Cabrera, Rios was on second, ran into Cabrera and then somehow got tagged on the knee at the same time, Cabrera got the runner out at first. So that should of been a double play, but it's only 1 out because the umpire went blind. Next batter Rolen lines a ball to Crede, who almost doubles up Zaun on 3rd, so this should of been the 3rd out, but the inning continues. Stairs crushes a 3-2 pitch to center and gave the Jays a 3-0 lead. Wells singles Stairs in on what should of been an out at the plate, but A.J. forgot how to handle a baseball. So yea, then the next inning the Sox manage 3 runs, with your boy Jermaine Dye striking out in a very big at bat with nobody out.

JB98
05-04-2008, 03:38 PM
Actually, 1-5. We had one ****ing guy in the lineup today hitting above .275. Walks are great, but somebody actually needs to get a hit to have a good inning.

5-9 were 0-for-16 today.

Let's not act like the bottom of the order is getting anything done.

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:41 PM
5-9 were 0-for-16 today.

Let's not act like the bottom of the order is getting anything done.

The whole team sucks right now, defense is atrocious, offense is anemic, and the pitching is the only thing keeping the team in games. I haven't actually paid this much attention to a team with this big of slump (sorry, I dozed off last year, I had enough of that crap by June).

TFLEM33
05-04-2008, 03:42 PM
First of all, the blown call definitely cost us this game, BUT our offense still looks horrible. Thome is NOT a 3 hitter and Swisher is NOT a leadoff hitter. Have we even tried batting Thome anywhere besides #3 since we acquired him? Ozzie needs to shake up the lineup a bit I believe. I'm not one of these people who think our bench players/minor leaguers are going to be our savior, but geez, try something different. Drop Thome in the order until he shows that he's not going to strike out every other at bat and give someone else an opportunity in the leadoff spot.

Soxman219
05-04-2008, 03:43 PM
This sucks!:angry: That's all I can say.

Chicken Dinner
05-04-2008, 03:46 PM
First of all, the blown call definitely cost us this game, BUT our offense still looks horrible. Thome is NOT a 3 hitter and Swisher is NOT a leadoff hitter. Have we even tried batting Thome anywhere besides #3 since we acquired him? Ozzie needs to shake up the lineup a bit I believe. I'm not one of these people who think our bench players/minor leaguers are going to be our savior, but geez, try something different. Drop Thome in the order until he shows that he's not going to strike out every other at bat and give someone else an opportunity in the leadoff spot.

Problem identified.......solution still a mystery.

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:48 PM
First of all, the blown call definitely cost us this game, BUT our offense still looks horrible. Thome is NOT a 3 hitter and Swisher is NOT a leadoff hitter. Have we even tried batting Thome anywhere besides #3 since we acquired him? Ozzie needs to shake up the lineup a bit I believe. I'm not one of these people who think our bench players/minor leaguers are going to be our savior, but geez, try something different. Drop Thome in the order until he shows that he's not going to strike out every other at bat and give someone else an opportunity in the leadoff spot.

I agree, Thome is not a 3rd spot hitter (in this stage of his career) and Swisher is definitely not a lead off man. What's he doing swinging first pitch up there today? When you can't hit, take pitches.

Thome's strikeout in the 8th was absolutely terrible to watch, it seems like he has no clue what he's doing up there at times against lefties. I really think you either leadoff Ozuna the next game or you put Cabrera in there. Ozuna is the only qualified leadoff man on this team and Cabrera is a career .245 leadoff hitter.

spiffie
05-04-2008, 03:50 PM
Hey, we're still in first second place!

spiffie
05-04-2008, 03:52 PM
I keep seeing people wanting Cabrera in leadoff, and I'm wondering what exactly about his 219/299/264 line is making people clamor for him in the leadoff position? I know people want Swisher to hit more, but I fail to see how getting someone who hits just as badly and gets on base less into the leadoff spot makes things better.

turners56
05-04-2008, 03:56 PM
I keep seeing people wanting Cabrera in leadoff, and I'm wondering what exactly about his 219/299/264 line is making people clamor for him in the leadoff position? I know people want Swisher to hit more, but I fail to see how getting someone who hits just as badly and gets on base less into the leadoff spot makes things better.

If Swisher is no longer getting on base, he's not a leadoff hitter. He was a great leadoff man with a .450 OBP, but at .357 and slumping like a mad man, he just doesn't fit. I seriously don't know what we can possibly do, the whole team is struggling, this isn't just on a single person in this lineup, outside of maybe Quentin, the whole team just can't hit and when they do actually hit the ball, it's right at somebody. They're not going to break out of this slump unless they get a wake up call. Fire Greg Walker, at the least Ozzie needs to light a fire under their ass to get them to stop sucking. This is just so frustrating to watch.

infohawk
05-04-2008, 03:58 PM
I think the sentiment about this being the same play we've seen since 2006 is correct - at least where the offense is concerned. No doubt the offense will improve eventually, but the real issue is the lack of consistency. This team may score buckets of runs for stretches at a time, maybe enough stretches to contend, but will remain prone to slump for extended periods, too. This is simply what they are.

I really think that one, perhaps two, of Thome, Konerko, and Dye need to be moved. They're too similar in that they are plodding, aging, pull-hitters on the backside of their careers. Additionally, having three of these players prevents the team from having the flexibility to bring in more speed. It's goes back to Hawk's adage, "where's he gonna play?" I do believe that two of the Thome-Konerko-Dye troika will likely be moved next year, maybe sooner if the team isn't in contention by the break. I still think they might remain in contention.

Of the three, I would keep Paulie. I'd make him a part-time DH. I'd move Swisher to first and give Jerry Owens an extended opportunity in center. I'd have Paulie DH most of the time, but would rotate Quinton and Swisher in there on occasion. I see this team moving to a DH-by committee system in the next year or two. That's fine by me, because it creates some additional roster flexibility.

I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I think that the Thome-Konerko-Dye segment of the order limits the team's options when they're not hitting homers. I know I'm not breaking any new ground here, just adding to some of the sentiment I've read on this board.

JB98
05-04-2008, 03:59 PM
I keep seeing people wanting Cabrera in leadoff, and I'm wondering what exactly about his 219/299/264 line is making people clamor for him in the leadoff position? I know people want Swisher to hit more, but I fail to see how getting someone who hits just as badly and gets on base less into the leadoff spot makes things better.

That's the real issue. WSI posters weep that Thome is not a No. 3 hitter anymore. They complain that Swisher is not a leadoff hitter.

Well, maybe there is some truth in that, but who exactly on this club is a leadoff hitter? A No. 3 hitter? I'm not seeing one. I'm not seeing a single hitter swinging the bat well right now. We had four ****ing hits today.

By changing the batting order, all we'd be doing is changing the order in which people make easy outs.

spiffie
05-04-2008, 03:59 PM
If Swisher is no longer getting on base, he's not a leadoff hitter. He was a great leadoff man with a .450 OBP, but at .357 and slumping like a mad man, he just doesn't fit. I seriously don't know what we can possibly do, the whole team is struggling, this isn't just on a single person in this lineup, outside of maybe Quentin, the whole team just can't hit and when they do actually hit the ball, it's right at somebody. They're not going to break out of this slump unless they get a wake up call. Fire Greg Walker, at the least Ozzie needs to light a fire under their ass to get them to stop sucking. This is just so frustrating to watch.
Like I said, I recognize Swisher is in a slump. I just fail to see how having a guy in even more of a slump, one that has basically been the entire 2008 season, take over the spot is an improvement. About the only person I could see making a difference at leadoff right now is Quentin, but I feel like moving him up there could screw with him right now. Cabrera though brings nothing to leadoff except an even lower BA and OBP.

LITTLE NELL
05-04-2008, 03:59 PM
I hate to say this but Thome, Konerko and Dye are in the twi-light of their careers, AJ and Crede also. I know its early but some how we have to break up this team. This team has not done much at all since the 2nd half of 06. Its not a fluke that we our about 30 games under .500 since late 06. We have to start rebuilding around Quentin, Swisher, Fields and Richar when he gets back. Send Ramirez down so he can get some playing time and be ready to take over SS next year, Ive seen enough of Cabrerra, and Uribe has got to go right now. Ive never seen such a slow team in all my years of following baseball, this team has no idea on how to manufacture a run or two. Mercy!

Paulwny
05-04-2008, 04:00 PM
The lack of run support will eventually get into the psyche of the starting pitchers. The'll start to think that the'll need to pitch a shut out every outing, every pitch will be critical, the fear of an error behind them, bad call by an ump, etc, not a good situation.

JB98
05-04-2008, 04:06 PM
I hate to say this but Thome, Konerko and Dye are in the twi-light of their careers, AJ and Crede also.

Hyperbole. Thome and Dye perhaps are in the twilight of their careers, but AJ and Crede are 30 years old. Paul is 32.

In the case of Paul, AJ and Joe, each has at least three good years left in them. Thome is only going to play another year or two. Dye, with all the injuries he has had, is an old 34. I don't think it's fair to lump those other three into that category.

soxfanatlanta
05-04-2008, 04:10 PM
In the case of Paul, AJ and Joe, each has at least three good years left in them. Thome is only going to play another year or two. Dye, with all the injuries he has had, is an old 34. I don't think it's fair to lump those other three into that category.

I will give you Joe, but I disagree about AJ. Catchers historically have a significant drop in production once they hit their 30's.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-04-2008, 04:12 PM
I hate to say this but Thome, Konerko and Dye are in the twi-light of their careers, AJ and Crede also. I know its early but some how we have to break up this team. This team has not done much at all since the 2nd half of 06. Its not a fluke that we our about 30 games under .500 since late 06. We have to start rebuilding around Quentin, Swisher, Fields and Richar when he gets back. Send Ramirez down so he can get some playing time and be ready to take over SS next year, Ive seen enough of Cabrerra, and Uribe has got to go right now. Ive never seen such a slow team in all my years of following baseball, this team has no idea on how to manufacture a run or two. Mercy!

AJ & Crede are both relatively young men who started out hot this year and are in a slump. I'd hardly call them at the twilight. Paulie seems to be doing his usual slow warmup. Thome and Dye, I agree. With those two the hot streaks are becoming the exception, not the rule.

Noneck
05-04-2008, 04:13 PM
I hate to say this but Thome, Konerko and Dye are in the twi-light of their careers, AJ and Crede also. I know its early but some how we have to break up this team.

This breakup you are referring to, I assume you mean after the season is over. Because the only guy that will be gone this season is Crede. A replacement is needed for AJ before a decision can be made about him and Thome and Dye couldn't be given away at this point.

JB98
05-04-2008, 04:13 PM
I will give you Joe, but I disagree about AJ. Catchers historically have a significant drop in production once they hit their 30's.

AJ is still performing at his career norms though. Granted, there has been slippage in his batting average from his Minnesota days. But like most players who come to the Sox, he's trying to hit for more power now. That's going to cost 15-20 points on a batting average.

LITTLE NELL
05-04-2008, 04:20 PM
This breakup you are referring to, I assume you mean after the season is over. Because the only guy that will be gone this season is Crede. A replacement is needed for AJ before a decision can be made about him and Thome and Dye couldn't be given away at this point.
I know with contracts and no trade clauses it would be tough but something has to be done before this winds up like 07. At least bring up Owens and lead him off, move Swish to right and platoon Dye and Thome at DH.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2008, 04:25 PM
AJ is still performing at his career norms though. Granted, there has been slippage in his batting average from his Minnesota days. But like most players who come to the Sox, he's trying to hit for more power now. That's going to cost 15-20 points on a batting average.

Yes, and I also think that not playing half his games on turf has hurt his batting average. He's a contact hitter ground ball hitter, and the turf in the Humpdome probably allowed 10-12 of his ground balls to poke their way out to the outfield. Point taken, though.

SoxSpeed22
05-04-2008, 04:26 PM
You can say as you like about the blown call, but Contreras had plenty of chances to get out of that inning. Other than that, he had a good outing. Hate to keep beating the dead horse, but the offense sucks. If they don't do something soon, this could go to the ****ter ala 2007.

Noneck
05-04-2008, 04:27 PM
I know with contracts and no trade clauses it would be tough but something has to be done before this winds up like 07. At least bring up Owens and lead him off, move Swish to right and platoon Dye and Thome at DH.
I'd like to see that but I think Quentin should be the future in RF, not Swisher.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2008, 04:28 PM
I'm becoming more convinced the thing to do is to trade both Thome and Dye, before their respective values fall even further.

I know I'll take lumps for saying this, but I'd rather have Fields at DH and BA in CF (with Quentin in RF and Swisher in LF). There would be a drop-off in power, but an increase in speed and better defense in the OF, which would help the pitchers.

DickAllen72
05-04-2008, 04:28 PM
3-4-5 hitters pathetic!
Absolutely. I dread seeing Thome come up in a key situation late in a game.

Noneck
05-04-2008, 04:30 PM
I'm becoming more convinced the thing to do is to trade both Thome and Dye, before their respective values fall even further.


Trade? You couldn't give them away without a salary pick up.

LITTLE NELL
05-04-2008, 04:30 PM
Maybe its time for Ozzie to have a temper tantrum and call out these underachievers much like the guy who manages the team 8 miles north of USCF.

TomBradley72
05-04-2008, 04:30 PM
Jim Thome hit .223 in late inning/close game situations 2006-2007. This year he's 0/7.

By comparison:

Ozuna: .407
Dye: .333
Crede: .300
Fields: .300
Iguchi: .299
Richar: .286
Cintron: .263
Konerko: .253The only players with significant ABs that had lower averages:

Podsednik: .219
Mackowiak: .211
Erstad: .207
Anderson: .161

DickAllen72
05-04-2008, 04:37 PM
I agree, Thome is not a 3rd spot hitter (in this stage of his career)

Thome's strikeout in the 8th was absolutely terrible to watch, it seems like he has no clue what he's doing up there at times against lefties.

Thome knows exactly what he's doing--trying to hit a home run with every swing.

Sox should try Quentin in the three hole. They really don't have a legit number three hitter, but Quentin looks like he may have the potential to be one.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-04-2008, 04:41 PM
I'm becoming more convinced the thing to do is to trade both Thome and Dye, before their respective values fall even further.

I know I'll take lumps for saying this, but I'd rather have Fields at DH and BA in CF (with Quentin in RF and Swisher in LF). There would be a drop-off in power, but an increase in speed and better defense in the OF, which would help the pitchers.

No lumps from me, I like the idea except who do we get to take them?

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2008, 04:47 PM
No lumps from me, I like the idea except who do we get to take them?

A team looking for a veteran slugger? :tongue:

cheezheadsoxfan
05-04-2008, 04:48 PM
A team looking for a veteran slugger? :tongue:

Who is currently not slugging.

Noneck
05-04-2008, 04:49 PM
A team looking for a veteran slugger? :tongue:
Yea and that uses $100 bills to light cigars. Good luck finding that guy.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2008, 04:53 PM
Who is currently not slugging.

Yea and that uses $100 bills to light cigars. Good luck finding that guy.

In all seriousness we may just have to hope that the bats wake up this year (with or without a Walker firing) and make the move this offseason.

If Thome's option vests based on him getting the necessary number of plate appearances, I'd buy out his option.

We ought to be able to find a taker for Dye this offseason, but we likely won't get much in return. I'm OK with bullpen help and the salary relief.

spiffie
05-04-2008, 04:54 PM
Yea and that uses $100 bills to light cigars. Good luck finding that guy.
And that Thome would agree to go to, since I believe he has an NTC.

Noneck
05-04-2008, 04:57 PM
And that Thome would agree to go to, since I believe he has an NTC.
Yea and I thought Dye does also this year. But if they were traded (highly unlikely tho) to some sort of contender, They would be crazy not to accept it.

kitekrazy
05-04-2008, 05:00 PM
I think the sentiment about this being the same play we've seen since 2006 is correct - at least where the offense is concerned. No doubt the offense will improve eventually, but the real issue is the lack of consistency. This team may score buckets of runs for stretches at a time, maybe enough stretches to contend, but will remain prone to slump for extended periods, too. This is simply what they are.

I really think that one, perhaps two, of Thome, Konerko, and Dye need to be moved. They're too similar in that they are plodding, aging, pull-hitters on the backside of their careers. Additionally, having three of these players prevents the team from having the flexibility to bring in more speed. It's goes back to Hawk's adage, "where's he gonna play?" I do believe that two of the Thome-Konerko-Dye troika will likely be moved next year, maybe sooner if the team isn't in contention by the break. I still think they might remain in contention.

Of the three, I would keep Paulie. I'd make him a part-time DH. I'd move Swisher to first and give Jerry Owens an extended opportunity in center. I'd have Paulie DH most of the time, but would rotate Quinton and Swisher in there on occasion. I see this team moving to a DH-by committee system in the next year or two. That's fine by me, because it creates some additional roster flexibility.

I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I think that the Thome-Konerko-Dye segment of the order limits the team's options when they're not hitting homers. I know I'm not breaking any new ground here, just adding to some of the sentiment I've read on this board.

Excellent points. With Konerko and Thome on base, no pitcher sees them as a threat to advance more than one base.

Things are still the same since the Manuel era. The Sox need a major change in philosophy. Every player seems to be evaluated on hitting the homerun. Just look at the minors. You have one guy who is fast but can't get on base, another guy that can hit but can't field. They might be athletes but they are not baseball players.

chisoxfanatic
05-04-2008, 05:28 PM
The offense needs to REALLY pick it up here. One inning shouldn't be the only inning these guys are able to get anything done. I'd like for them to start getting into a hitting rhythm anytime soon now. That lineup is the furthest away from cohesive.

Hopefully we won't get swept in this series tomorrow night.

Blueprint1
05-04-2008, 05:30 PM
I can't believe some of you are still scoreboard watching. If we can't win games were not going to finish in first. By the way who thinks this team is good still? Seriously the core of the team is the same as last year. That is the real issue. If you don't think they can slump all year long you must have slept through the whole 2007 season.

itsnotrequired
05-04-2008, 06:04 PM
I can't believe some of you are still scoreboard watching. If we can't win games were not going to finish in first. By the way who thinks this team is good still? Seriously the core of the team is the same as last year. That is the real issue. If you don't think they can slump all year long you must have slept through the whole 2007 season.

You don't have to be the best team in the league to make the postseason. If your direct competition sucks, you can sort of suck too i.e like the NL Central over the last few seasons.

gogosox16
05-04-2008, 06:13 PM
Yea and I thought Dye does also this year. But if they were traded (highly unlikely tho) to some sort of contender, They would be crazy not to accept it.
the Sox are very much a contender right now....its way too early to be giving up just because there going through a rough patch right now....every team goes through this at somepoint. The best thing about this right now is that its only may 4th and theres over 130 games to play

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2008, 06:29 PM
I didn't see the game, but it sounds like more of the same...we saw this game ninety times before last year...something has gotta change.

kittle42
05-04-2008, 07:11 PM
Relax, you pants pissers.

They ****ing suck, but really I'm not disappointed, because the team we've seen the last two weeks is more the team I expected, anyway.

Brian26
05-04-2008, 07:24 PM
The Call sucked, but Jose gave Stairs a cookie to crush, then gives up the single to Wells, then AJ drops the ball at the plate to tag our Stairs.

HaHa, Hawk needs to get off the Soap Box. They made the tag the play of the game.


The play of the game was a few pitches later when Matt " I wasnt good enough to play for the Cubs" Stairs crushed a 2 run double.

Crap like that usually happens when you give the opposition four or five outs in an inning.

Brian26
05-04-2008, 07:26 PM
You don't have to be the best team in the league to make the postseason. If your direct competition sucks, you can sort of suck too i.e like the NL Central over the last few seasons.

As the 2006 Cardinals proved, you don't have to be the best team in your league to win the World Series either.

Railsplitter
05-04-2008, 07:49 PM
Two swept series in a row:angry:

Patrick134
05-04-2008, 07:50 PM
Two swept series in a row:angry:

Um, one more game in this series tomorrow night.

sox1970
05-04-2008, 07:59 PM
The good news is we have the right guy pitching tomorrow.

Vazquez has owned the Skydome the last two years.

16 IP
8 H
1 R
4 BB
18 K

MarySwiss
05-04-2008, 08:16 PM
Like him or not, Hawk made a good point today. Take a look at the May schedule, gang. It is brutal.

Where we are at the end of May will reveal a lot about our team.

kittle42
05-04-2008, 08:18 PM
Like him or not, Hawk made a good point today. Take a look at the May schedule, gang. It is brutal.

Where we are at the end of May will reveal a lot about our team.

Which is EXACTLY why people saying "it's early, we're in first, etc. etc." these past few weeks are wrong. Win NOW because when the schedule gets tough, THAT's when .500 ball is somewhat accpetable.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-04-2008, 08:21 PM
Like him or not, Hawk made a good point today. Take a look at the May schedule, gang. It is brutal.

Where we are at the end of May will reveal a lot about our team.

I don't like where we are at the beginning of May: Looking too much like last year's team. The pitching is better, but the hitting is just as bad or worse.

Noneck
05-04-2008, 08:30 PM
Where we are at the end of May will reveal a lot about our team.


If Harrelson said this, it won't matter where they are at end of May. He will still be hawking this team afterward like a carnival barker, saying he knows this team is too good to be in this position and its just a matter of time before Oswaldo and these great players get things straightened out. And yes it is the nature of the beast, Hawk hawks.

sox1970
05-04-2008, 08:34 PM
Like him or not, Hawk made a good point today. Take a look at the May schedule, gang. It is brutal.

Where we are at the end of May will reveal a lot about our team.

If anything, it would be great if everyone in the AL was 5 under to 5 over .500 when interleague games are in full swing in June. If nobody dominates too much in interleague, the wildcard winner and/or Central winner may only need 88-90 wins this year. That would be an interesting September.

BRDSR
05-04-2008, 08:57 PM
the Sox are very much a contender right now....its way too early to be giving up just because there going through a rough patch right now....every team goes through this at somepoint. The best thing about this right now is that its only may 4th and theres over 130 games to play

There are 14-15 teams that look like they could be contenders and 14-15 teams that you know aren't contenders. This team, in my opinion, is the latter. It may just have happened to hit its hottest streak in the first four weeks of the season.

MCHSoxFan
05-04-2008, 09:00 PM
I know with contracts and no trade clauses it would be tough but something has to be done before this winds up like 07. At least bring up Owens and lead him off, move Swish to right and platoon Dye and Thome at DH.

Most people HATE this idea. However, I have been saying this like you, too. At least try it. I mean, while the team is down a bit, just try it out. It is not like Swisher is doing all that well. NO ONE REALLY IS!!! :angry: :whiner:

Vernam
05-04-2008, 09:00 PM
We must lead the majors in the quantity of quality starts wasted. :angry:

Vernam

MCHSoxFan
05-04-2008, 09:03 PM
Absolutely. I dread seeing Thome come up in a key situation late in a game.

Friday, Saturday, and today, in the top of the 9th inning, we have had our 3-6 hitters up. I was sooo pumped up to see that. Did they do anything, NO!!! :angry:

Lip Man 1
05-04-2008, 10:07 PM
Latest stories on potential lineup "shakeup" courtesy of the Tribune and White Sox.com. Based on Ozzie's comments it doesn't look like a lot will change, basically he says ALL the players are slumping so what good will it do to change the order.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080504-ozzie-guillen-white-sox-lineup,1,6760560.story

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080504&content_id=2639798&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip

Brian26
05-04-2008, 10:23 PM
If Harrelson said this, it won't matter where they are at end of May. He will still be hawking this team afterward like a carnival barker, saying he knows this team is too good to be in this position and its just a matter of time before Oswaldo and these great players get things straightened out. And yes it is the nature of the beast, Hawk hawks.

:hawk
"Mercy, let me tell you something. If Frank and Mags don't go down in 2004, and if Chris Widger would have hit his weight in 2006, Ozzie might have won three in a row."

Vernam
05-04-2008, 11:00 PM
Latest stories on potential lineup "shakeup" courtesy of the Tribune and White Sox.com. Based on Ozzie's comments it doesn't look like a lot will change, basically he says ALL the players are slumping so what good will it do to change the order.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080504-ozzie-guillen-white-sox-lineup,1,6760560.story

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080504&content_id=2639798&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
Some of those quotes from Ozzie are flat-out discouraging. I know he can't rip these guys for not hitting, because that's different from mental errors, lack of hustle or other lapses. But c'mon, I refuse to accept that he can't shuffle the lineup. It's a copout. Maybe there are no great options, but leaving this lineup intact is no option at all.

I'm glad to read how he doesn't care what happened in 2007. :rolleyes: That's just stubbornness, plain and simple. Everybody talks about how batting averages in April are based on a "small sample." How large does the sample have to be -- two years and counting -- to convince him that the Thome/Konerko/Dye monolith is bad mojo? When guys aren't getting on in front of them, then T/K/D slump because no one's afraid of them with the bases empty. When T/K/D slump on their own, it seems to infect the rest of the lineup. It's the offensive equivalent of watching your pitcher take so long that the defense falls asleep.

The stars need to align perfectly for those three to be productive at the same time. Break 'em up. Drop Thome in the lineup, platoon him with Dye, whatever it takes.

Vernam

SBSoxFan
05-04-2008, 11:08 PM
I was expecting much more debate on the Cabrera play. I just saw the quick replay, but I didn't notice Cabrera tagging the runner. I don't see how this couldn't possibly be runner interference, but Cabrera certainly didn't help his cause.

tstrike2000
05-04-2008, 11:19 PM
Yeah, there's been unearned runs, bad defense, bad calls, gift runs given up...etc, but that's baseball! Those can't be used as excuses.

Quentin definitely needs to be moved up in the order for now. Not only is he the hot bat, but it would also put someone in between Thome, Konerko, Dye that doesn't run as fast as someone's grandma. Then bring Richar up and put him at 2B. Even if he's not as good as Uribe defensively, he can't do any worse than Uribe offensively, who's an automatic out.

Yeah, the bottom of the order isn't producing, but lacking a true leadoff hitter and the prolonged patterns of our 3,4,5 hitters are killing this team.

Patrick134
05-04-2008, 11:29 PM
I was expecting much more debate on the Cabrera play. I just saw the quick replay, but I didn't notice Cabrera tagging the runner. I don't see how this couldn't possibly be runner interference, but Cabrera certainly didn't help his cause.


Didn't see the game live, just saw the replay of that play on the news. Ump blew it big time. Once the runner runs into your glove, with the ball in it, are you obligated to retag him and announce "I'm tagging him now "? Atrocious call. I'm not even saying the call is the reason the Sox lost today, but to say this call is anything but an abomination is insane.

Vernam
05-04-2008, 11:33 PM
I was expecting much more debate on the Cabrera play. I just saw the quick replay, but I didn't notice Cabrera tagging the runner. I don't see how this couldn't possibly be runner interference, but Cabrera certainly didn't help his cause.The ump's view TV replay made it look like a missed tag, but every other view made it obvious OC had tagged the guy.

Interference wasn't an issue because the batter was thrown out.

Vernam

itsnotrequired
05-05-2008, 08:42 AM
We must lead the majors in the quantity of quality starts wasted. :angry:

Vernam

The staff has a total of 18 quality starts amongst them and the team has a 12-5-1 record in those games (includes the Baltimore suspended game). So the team has a 2-10 record when the starters struggle.

Seems about right.

:shrug:

MarySwiss
05-05-2008, 09:27 AM
Like him or not, Hawk made a good point today. Take a look at the May schedule, gang. It is brutal.

Where we are at the end of May will reveal a lot about our team.

If Harrelson said this, it won't matter where they are at end of May. He will still be hawking this team afterward like a carnival barker, saying he knows this team is too good to be in this position and its just a matter of time before Oswaldo and these great players get things straightened out. And yes it is the nature of the beast, Hawk hawks.

Oops, guess I wasn't clear. Hawk pointed out the rough May schedule. The comment about where we are at the end of May was all mine.