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View Full Version : If we could turn back the clock on Swisher trade...


LoveYourSuit
04-30-2008, 03:09 PM
Now knowing how good Carlos Quentin can be, would there have been a need to pull off this deal?


In no way do I dislike Swisher nor I think he is at fault for our offensive slumps.


But we have now created a log jam in the OF and we cannot find playing time for a guy like Ownes or Anderson.

Can you imagine how pretty we would be sitting right now with assets like Gio, DLS, & Sweeney?


You can't blame Kenny, I bet he did not know Quentin would be this good so quick.

DSpivack
04-30-2008, 03:10 PM
The fact that we can't find playing time for Owens and Anderson is a GOOD thing.

turners56
04-30-2008, 03:11 PM
Hell no! Swisher brings this team serious attitude.

On a serious note, I think the Swisher deal will end up being a good one.

skottyj242
04-30-2008, 03:12 PM
I don't know how to put this up here, if someone can do it I would greatly appreciate it:

Mod Edit: Done.

5G4O5AMSevc

DSpivack
04-30-2008, 03:13 PM
I don't know how to put this up here, if someone can do it I would greatly appreciate it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5G4O5AMSevc

The embed link is on the right of the video.

JB98
04-30-2008, 03:14 PM
Swisher and Quentin are both still young, and I think both will be in our outfield for a long, long time. Those were both excellent acquisitions.

I'm glad we have this type of organizational depth in our outfield. I wish we had that type of organizational depth with our pitching staff.

VeeckAsInWreck
04-30-2008, 03:17 PM
Hindsight is 20/20

I_Liked_Manuel
04-30-2008, 03:18 PM
why do we have to find playing time for owens and anderson? if we hadn't made that trade, we'd be talking about what we are going to do with owens, anderson, and sweeney.

LoveYourSuit
04-30-2008, 03:19 PM
Swisher and Quentin are both still young, and I think both will be in our outfield for a long, long time. Those were both excellent acquisitions.

I'm glad we have this type of organizational depth in our outfield. I wish we had that type of organizational depth with our pitching staff.


I agree about our depth. We went from ZERO depth last season to a 6 man OF rotation this season.

It's just seeing that Carlos Gomez kid leading off in CF and created a mess for us this series which has me thinking a little bit of speed at the top would look nice. Owens is the only thing close to Gomez on our 40 man roster.

Bottom line, Cabrera needs to get his head out his ass and that right there would be a huge improvement.

WhiteSox5187
04-30-2008, 03:21 PM
I wasn't a fan of the Swisher trade, I like Swisher and I wish there was a way we could have gotten him for less...but it's still too early. The Aardsma for Cotts deal looked like a steal this time last year too instead of being a wash.

LoveYourSuit
04-30-2008, 03:21 PM
why do we have to find playing time for owens and anderson? if we hadn't made that trade, we'd be talking about what we are going to do with owens, anderson, and sweeney.


Because they are young, inexpensive, and bring speed...... yes speed on a team which has none.

Watching Gomez and Roberts the last two series makes desire a little bit of speed.

cws05champ
04-30-2008, 03:29 PM
Question is then, how would Owens/anderson be playing in a full time roll. Does Swishers attitude not being around the clubhouse make a difference or not? I still do the deal even in hindsight.

Oh, by the Way:

Gio @ AAA: 3.91 ERA, 1.52 WHIP
DLS @ High A: 5.87 ERA, 1.74 WHIP
Sweeney @ Oak: .254, 10 RBI, .284 OBP in 63 AB's

JB98
04-30-2008, 04:00 PM
I agree about our depth. We went from ZERO depth last season to a 6 man OF rotation this season.

It's just seeing that Carlos Gomez kid leading off in CF and created a mess for us this series which has me thinking a little bit of speed at the top would look nice. Owens is the only thing close to Gomez on our 40 man roster.

Bottom line, Cabrera needs to get his head out his ass and that right there would be a huge improvement.

Well, if Owens were as good as Carlos Gomez I might agree with people who want him up and in the lineup. Unfortunately, Owens is not that good.

The good news is we're covered in the outfield in the event that the aging RF we have gets injured. Eventually, Dye is going to move on, and we'll be in decent shape for the long haul with Quentin, Swisher and a combination of Anderson/Owens.

A.T. Money
04-30-2008, 04:05 PM
Am I the only one who watched the whole Cher video? LOL

kittle42
04-30-2008, 04:07 PM
:threadsucks

Boondock Saint
04-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Last season, we didn't have a guy that could get on base as well as play a decent CF. That was one of the biggest problems the people on here wanted addressed. How often now do we hear bitching about our #1 hitter or CF defense? Things are much better now.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-30-2008, 04:43 PM
Am I the only one who watched the whole Cher video? LOL

No. The fact her ass hangs out like that in front of her son, to this day, amazes me.

I_Liked_Manuel
04-30-2008, 05:21 PM
Because they are young, inexpensive, and bring speed...... yes speed on a team which has none.

Watching Gomez and Roberts the last two series makes desire a little bit of speed.

quentin and swisher are fairly young

i don't really care about the cost - swisher is signed to an affordable deal, and quentin isn't exactly making a ton of cash

you have to get on base to use speed. i'd like a little team speed as well, but that problem didn't come from trading for swisher - it comes from having a core group of guys that are slow. this isn't anything new - we had one year that we were stealing bases - and it was because of one guy - podsednik.

getonbckthr
04-30-2008, 05:31 PM
Swisher isn't the problem. I just wish there was a team with an abundance of speed at 2B that needs a slugging OF/DH.

hi im skot
04-30-2008, 05:34 PM
:threadsucks


No kidding.

fquaye149
04-30-2008, 05:43 PM
I'm more happy to have Swisher than to have Quentin--and I'm ecstatic to have Quentin.

The Swisher deal is, imo, one of the best deals Kenny has made and I wouldn't NOT do it no matter what the circumstance (nb: that was an exaggeration)

chisoxfanatic
04-30-2008, 06:26 PM
Just the intangibles Swish brings to the table through his creating of great team chemistry are enough to make this trade worth it.

Lip Man 1
04-30-2008, 06:29 PM
Manuel:

If you look at the 2005 stolen base stats you'll see the Sox had SIX guys with ten or more steals. Scott was the main guy but they had others running too.

Somehow I don't think they'll have three guys in double figures in stolen bases this year.

Lip

I_Liked_Manuel
04-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Manuel:

If you look at the 2005 stolen base stats you'll see the Sox had SIX guys with ten or more steals. Scott was the main guy but they had others running too.

Somehow I don't think they'll have three guys in double figures in stolen bases this year.

Lip

i checked it out and was surprised to see we had that many - i figured that iguchi and rowand would be in double digits, but i remember dye getting a lot of "gift" sb's that season - i could be wrong on that. ozuna and harris were both bench players, and i think we at least have one guy on that bench that will get into double digits this year (ozuna). how many pinch runners do we need?

at this point, what do we do? i'm not ready to part with quentin, swisher, or dye - so owens is out of the question as far as i'm concerned. cabrera is what he is, crede (fields) isn't going to make a difference on the basepaths, konerko's not going anywhere fast (pun?), so that leaves us with 2b. who is available? roberts?

Daver
04-30-2008, 07:00 PM
I hope the Sox never find playing time for Jerry Owens.

DSpivack
04-30-2008, 08:32 PM
I hope the Sox never find playing time for Jerry Owens.

He was a WR in college, the Bears could possibly use him. :dunno:

thomas35forever
04-30-2008, 09:21 PM
Swisher is turning out to be a good deal for the Sox thus far. No way I'd change my mind about it.

champagne030
04-30-2008, 10:15 PM
He was a WR in college, the Bears could possibly use him. :dunno:

Maybe. He's probably as good as Hester at playing WR.

WhiteSox5187
04-30-2008, 10:17 PM
i checked it out and was surprised to see we had that many - i figured that iguchi and rowand would be in double digits, but i remember dye getting a lot of "gift" sb's that season - i could be wrong on that. ozuna and harris were both bench players, and i think we at least have one guy on that bench that will get into double digits this year (ozuna). how many pinch runners do we need?

at this point, what do we do? i'm not ready to part with quentin, swisher, or dye - so owens is out of the question as far as i'm concerned. cabrera is what he is, crede (fields) isn't going to make a difference on the basepaths, konerko's not going anywhere fast (pun?), so that leaves us with 2b. who is available? roberts?
I was going over this with my dad and really second base is the only position that I feel could use a substansial upgrade. Who is a second baseman with speed that is available? There is Roberts (allegedly) but who do we have that we can use to get him? There is Ryan Freel but he gets injured a lot...we could ask Owens to learn how to play second.

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 10:34 PM
Swisher isn't the problem. I just wish there was a team with an abundance of speed at 2B that needs a slugging OF/DH.
Stop it.

I wouldn't trade any of our "slugging OF/DH" for even Brian Roberts.

DumpJerry
04-30-2008, 11:13 PM
Now knowing how good Carlos Quentin can be, would there have been a need to pull off this deal?


In no way do I dislike Swisher nor I think he is at fault for our offensive slumps.


But we have now created a log jam in the OF and we cannot find playing time for a guy like Ownes or Anderson.

Can you imagine how pretty we would be sitting right now with assets like Gio, DLS, & Sweeney?


You can't blame Kenny, I bet he did not know Quentin would be this good so quick.
Amazing. Simply amazing.........

DLS is in the Hall of Fame, so he is no longer eligible to play.

Frater Perdurabo
05-01-2008, 06:17 AM
Stop it.

I wouldn't trade any of our "slugging OF/DH" for even Brian Roberts.

I would trade Dye for Roberts. The Orioles wouldn't, though.

Lillian
05-01-2008, 08:30 AM
I was going over this with my dad and really second base is the only position that I feel could use a substansial upgrade. Who is a second baseman with speed that is available? There is Roberts (allegedly) but who do we have that we can use to get him? There is Ryan Freel but he gets injured a lot...we could ask Owens to learn how to play second.

The D'Backs have a really terrific looking lead off hitting Second Baseman from the Dominican Republic. His name is Emilio Bonifacio. I watched him in Spring Training, and remarked "I've never seen anyone that fast". I mean this guy was Mickey Rivers kind of quick on the bases, for anyone who remembers him. He is behind Orlando Hudson on their depth chart, but Hudson will be a free agent, and is seeking a big contract. He probably isn't available for anything that we would be willing to give up, but wow would I love to have that guy. We could probably get Hudson, and let him walk next year, but he doesn't have anywhere near the kind of speed and stolen base potential of bonifacio.

Craig Grebeck
05-01-2008, 08:48 AM
Not a fan of Bonifacio.

Lillian
05-01-2008, 08:55 AM
Not a fan of Bonifacio.

What don't you like about him?

Craig Grebeck
05-01-2008, 09:25 AM
What don't you like about him?
Doesn't really possess any secondary skills aside from blazing speed and above average defense. Not a proficient contact or power hitter, and not a lick of plate discipline.

UofCSoxFan
05-01-2008, 02:45 PM
You know it has long been said that the most popular man in Chicago is the Bears second string quarterback. Well the second most popular man most be the White Sox 4th outfielder. OUTFIELD IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM!

DSpivack
05-01-2008, 02:50 PM
You know it has long been said that the most popular man in Chicago is the Bears second string quarterback. Well the second most popular man most be the White Sox 4th outfielder. OUTFIELD IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM!

That's true for the vast majority of football teams. Since it's the Bears, fans have to move to the 3rd string QB. :tongue:

UofCSoxFan
05-01-2008, 02:52 PM
That's true for the vast majority of football teams. Since it's the Bears, fans have to move to the 3rd string QB. :tongue:

We would first need a 3rd string QB.

DSpivack
05-01-2008, 02:55 PM
We would first need a 3rd string QB.

:hijacked:

Even better! Instead, fans complain that we didn't draft one, when we all know that even if they did they couldn't develop him.

LoveYourSuit
05-01-2008, 03:17 PM
Guys, give me a break on the posting of this thread.


In no way is this being in disgust with Swisher or the OF situation. We have a great OF situation IMO.

But you have to realize that we did give up a good load to get Swisher at the time. At the time, Kenny felt he had to make this move because of how bad the OF situation was last season. I can guarantee no one in the Sox organization thought Quentin was going to be this good this quickly. I don't even think he was considered to even start the season with the big club. Jerry Owens getting hurt opened the spot for both him and Anderson.

I wish I could pick Kenny's brain today (withoug getting the political answers) and ask him if had he known what he really was getting with Quentin would he have still forced himself to make the move for Swisher? If Kenny is honest (and he won't be because he doesn't want to hurt Swisher's feelings) he would probably say he would not. He would have saved those 3 solid tokens (Gio, DLS, Sweeney) to make a different move. Maybe a 2B?


Bottom line, the emergance of Quentin has created a very good situation in the OF and a ton of depth there.

DumpJerry
05-01-2008, 03:32 PM
Love, we "gave up" three guys who were not going to be on the Sox' 25 man roster any time soon. DLS was probably 3-4 years away, Gio 1-2 years away and with Buerhle and Danks in the rotation, there probably wasn't room for another lefty.

With Sweeney, we got a taste of him last year and I doubt anyone here would choose Sweeney over Swisher. Without the trade, he would be at Charlotte and Owens would be here once getting off the DL.

In sum, we "gave up" nothing. Kenny knew what he was getting with Quentin, he told us when that trade was made and Quentin has played just like Kenny told us he would.

sox1970
05-01-2008, 03:35 PM
The Swisher trade was a steal. Period.

When they get a more prototypical leadoff guy and Swisher bats 5th or 6th, the trade will look even better.

LoveYourSuit
05-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Love, we "gave up" three guys who were not going to be on the Sox' 25 man roster any time soon. DLS was probably 3-4 years away, Gio 1-2 years away and with Buerhle and Danks in the rotation, there probably wasn't room for another lefty.

With Sweeney, we got a taste of him last year and I doubt anyone here would choose Sweeney over Swisher. Without the trade, he would be at Charlotte and Owens would be here once getting off the DL.

In sum, we "gave up" nothing. Kenny knew what he was getting with Quentin, he told us when that trade was made and Quentin has played just like Kenny told us he would.


I agree with everything Dump.

I love the trade and I think we got a steal.

But my arguement and my honest opinion is that this trade would not have been done had we known how good Quentin was and having no health issues (knock on wood) so far.

ZombieRob
05-01-2008, 04:40 PM
Swish will be a fine deal. Just now, IMO he is just batting out of his comfort zone. I'd like to see a potential flip flop with him and Quentin, with Quentin batting 2nd Swisher 7th Cabrera leading off.

fquaye149
05-01-2008, 04:43 PM
Swish will be a fine deal. Just now, IMO he is just batting out of his comfort zone. I'd like to see a potential flip flop with him and Quentin, with Quentin batting 2nd Swisher 7th Cabrera leading off.

if .380 OBP is what he puts up outside his comfort zone, I'd love to see what he can do when he settles in

ZombieRob
05-01-2008, 04:59 PM
if .380 OBP is what he puts up outside his comfort zone, I'd love to see what he can do when he settles in
Question is will he ever. Batting history says no. IMO high he's going to need to hit for avg to be effective. I hope i'm wrong but we'll see. Maybe even a flip flop of Carbera and Swisher may work if the leadoff thing doesn't work for Swish'.

DSpivack
05-01-2008, 05:24 PM
Question is will he ever. Batting history says no. IMO high he's going to need to hit for avg to be effective. I hope i'm wrong but we'll see. Maybe even a flip flop of Carbera and Swisher may work if the leadoff thing doesn't work for Swish'.

His career he is around a .250 hitter, so he'll improve a bit but not greatly. That our leadoff guy is getting on at a .380 clip and people complain boggles me. I do expect Swisher to drive the ball more as the season goes on, and get more extra base hits.

fquaye149
05-01-2008, 05:30 PM
2 2B is a little surprising--I thought he'd have more.

LoveYourSuit
05-01-2008, 05:34 PM
His career he is around a .250 hitter, so he'll improve a bit but not greatly. That our leadoff guy is getting on at a .380 clip and people complain boggles me. I do expect Swisher to drive the ball more as the season goes on, and get more extra base hits.

I think we are putting wat too much stock on that .380 OBP clip when we all know that thing was juiced very high the first 2 weeks of the season. The OBP% not pretty the last 2 weeks. I think that he is pressing to get hits right now because he sees what his average is and therfore is taking less pitches.

What sucks here is that OC has been awful so far in the 2 hole making everything appear so much worse that it might really be.

If OC hits, Swisher has less pressure and Konerko and Thome drive in more runs.

fquaye149
05-01-2008, 05:44 PM
I think we are putting wat too much stock on that .380 OBP clip when we all know that thing was juiced very high the first 2 weeks of the season. The OBP% not pretty the last 2 weeks. I think that he is pressing to get hits right now because he sees what his average is and therfore is taking less pitches.

What sucks here is that OC has been awful so far in the 2 hole making everything appear so much worse that it might really be.

If OC hits, Swisher has less pressure and Konerko and Thome drive in more runs.

So what you're saying is that even though he had 2 very solid weeks to open up the season, and his career OBP is very good (though slightly lower than .380), it's the fact that he's been slumping the last 2 weeks that should matter?

LoveYourSuit
05-01-2008, 05:50 PM
So what you're saying is that even though he had 2 very solid weeks to open up the season, and his career OBP is very good (though slightly lower than .380), it's the fact that he's been slumping the last 2 weeks that should matter?


Long slumps by lead off hitters (and your 2nd hitters) is one of the qualities you do not want to have from that position. Table setters to me is the most important part of a good offense.



Long slumps are very common for middle of the order people.... Swisher is a middle of the order hitter IMO.

DSpivack
05-01-2008, 05:55 PM
Long slumps by lead off hitters (and your 2nd hitters) is one of the qualities you do not want to have from that position. Table setters to me is the most important part of a good offense.

Long slumps are very common for middle of the order people.... Swisher is a middle of the order hitter IMO.

You seem to make the case, though, that we're doomed because we've been slumping the last couple weeks. However, we are still in first place; the fact that we haven't hit especially well lately and still sit atop the division seems a good thing to me. I say they'll eventually return to their career averages (and our pitching doesn't keep up the rate of success that it has had, at least not this much), and we continue our winning ways.

voodoochile
05-01-2008, 06:13 PM
Long slumps by lead off hitters (and your 2nd hitters) is one of the qualities you do not want to have from that position. Table setters to me is the most important part of a good offense.



Long slumps are very common for middle of the order people.... Swisher is a middle of the order hitter IMO.

Long as he keeps walking though, he's not slumping regardless of his BA.

ondafarm
05-01-2008, 08:36 PM
Swish will never be a classic lead-off man as in speed guy who steals 40 bags a year, hits .300 and has a .400 OBP. But he is giving everything he can and his OBP seems fine to me. I don't think Swish is a problem although I'd rather see a more traditional lead-off guy, like Owens.

fquaye149
05-01-2008, 08:43 PM
Yeah I can't wait to get a guy in the lineup who will get on base at a .310 clip. Swisher's a master at getting on base. What's Owens? A master bunter?

Daver
05-01-2008, 08:50 PM
Yeah I can't wait to get a guy in the lineup who will get on base at a .310 clip. Swisher's a master at getting on base. What's Owens? A master bunter?

He bunts like my ass chews gum.

Frater Perdurabo
05-01-2008, 08:53 PM
Swish will never be a classic lead-off man as in speed guy who steals 40 bags a year, hits .300 and has a .400 OBP. But he is giving everything he can and his OBP seems fine to me. I don't think Swish is a problem although I'd rather see a more traditional lead-off guy, like Owens.

I realize that there's no room in the outfield right now, but if something were to change, what about having Owens bat ninth?

That way, you still have Swisher's OBP ahead of the big boppers, but you also put him in a position later in the game of being able to use his patience at the plate to give Owens a chance to steal a base, and then potentially tee off on a fastball with Owens in scoring position.

voodoochile
05-01-2008, 10:07 PM
He bunts like my ass chews gum.

What flavor does the donkey like? I had a dog who liked cherry bubblegum when I was a kid...

FedEx227
05-01-2008, 10:16 PM
2 2B is a little surprising--I thought he'd have more.

Unfortunately the Cell is a killer for 2B and 3B. Not big enough gaps... Bill James does these rankings or "Park Effects" every year in his Handbook and The Cell is ALWAYS in the bottom five of those categories.