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beasly213
04-30-2008, 11:11 AM
Ok so for one reason or another Sports Radio and Newspapers and fans alike have been excited about the White Sox saying how good they look throughout the first month of the year.


Now my question is why? This team has a pretty good rotation but their lineup is so one dimensional its scary. This team is exactly like the 2004 White Sox. Home Run or nothing. Leaving so many guys on base is getting old is going to kill them as the season goes on.

Everyone talks about now they have a "Never quit" attitude. Well they should have ALWAYS had that.

I hope I'm wrong but after the first month of the season I don't see this team winning more than 82 games. An improvment from last year? Sure. But I don't want an improvment. I want another championship.

Rocky Soprano
04-30-2008, 11:16 AM
Your what hurts?
One month in, they are in first place, and still the complaints...

:threadsucks

hi im skot
04-30-2008, 11:17 AM
Boooooooooooooo!!!

Mr.1Dog
04-30-2008, 11:18 AM
:rowand

skobabe8
04-30-2008, 11:20 AM
Most people here understand the flaws in this team and are hoping they get fixed. We arent blind. But at the same time its ok to be slightly happy when your team is in first place despite those flaws.

itsnotrequired
04-30-2008, 11:20 AM
The Minneapolis Star-Tribune talked about how great the White Sox are and how they maybe the team to beat in the division. I disagreed. The White Sox has started well in April over the years, and we all know more often than not the Sox fade when it matters in the summer. Yeah they had that fluke 2006 season when they started off well in April and play great all season, but I don't think their pitching is that great and their offense is overrated. In the end, look for the Indians to win that division.

I expect the Twins to finish ahead of Chicago in the standings this year at third place.

Hopefully, the Twins will start the Sox demise this week.

Mod edit: Why did you re-post this? The original poster got banned for being a troll; we don't need it repeated.

kjhanson
04-30-2008, 11:22 AM
Ok so for one reason or another Sports Radio and Newspapers and fans alike have been excited about the White Sox saying how good they look throughout the first month of the year.


Now my question is why? This team has a pretty good rotation but their lineup is so one dimensional its scary. This team is exactly like the 2004 White Sox. Home Run or nothing. Leaving so many guys on base is getting old is going to kill them as the season goes on.

Everyone talks about now they have a "Never quit" attitude. Well they should have ALWAYS had that.

I hope I'm wrong but after the first month of the season I don't see this team winning more than 82 games. An improvment from last year? Sure. But I don't want an improvment. I want another championship.

I'm excited because there are at least 137 days left to that season. And because my crystal ball broke last week, I have no clue what's going to happen. That's what makes every baseball season exciting.

In addition, despite my unfortunate inability to look into the future, I have a superior memory. Utilizing that memory to look back over the first month of the season, I recall a first-place ballclub; one that has yet to lose three games in a row thus far.

anewman35
04-30-2008, 11:23 AM
I don't think anybody is claiming that this is a perfect team, we can all point to a few games we should have won but didn't. However, a month into the season we're in first by 2.5 games, and I don't think anybody would have expected that. I don't think we'll be a 100 win team or anything, but it seems like we can at the very least compete for the division in what seems to be a down year, what's not to be excited about?

FireMariotti
04-30-2008, 11:25 AM
The Minneapolis Star-Tribune talked about how great the White Sox are and how they maybe the team to beat in the division. I disagreed. The White Sox has started well in April over the years, and we all know more often than not the Sox fade when it matters in the summer. Yeah they had that fluke 2006 season when they started off well in April and play great all season, but I don't think their pitching is that great and their offense is overrated. In the end, look for the Indians to win that division.

I expect the Twins to finish ahead of Chicago in the standings this year at third place.

Hopefully, the Twins will start the Sox demise this week.

I thought of this post as soon as I saw the thread.

:bandance:Timberwolf right on time again.

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 11:26 AM
Man, get one game you should have won suspended and lose the next and the Thunderheads start booming...

WHY? Because everything that needs to break right for the Sox to be contenders currently is breaking right:

The young starters are pitching well AND Contreras is rebounding nicely
TCQ is playing like he deserves the nickname TCQ
Dye is off to a hot start
Crede is off to a hot start
Ozzie is playing a consistent lineup :o:Oh and of course...

The Sox are in first place by more than a game as the month of April comes to a close.

That's why...

MrRoboto83
04-30-2008, 11:26 AM
I was excited until I read this thread. now I feel the season is hopeless.

jenn2080
04-30-2008, 11:28 AM
I was excited until I read this thread. now I feel the season is hopeless.



You know sometimes the truth hurts Tade.


I would like to thank the person who started this for crushing my hopes for the season. :whiner:

itsnotrequired
04-30-2008, 11:29 AM
Dye is off to a hot startHe has really cooled off lately. Over the last 5 games he is 4-20 with 1 BB and 5 K.

FireMariotti
04-30-2008, 11:30 AM
People aren't excited? EMAIL BROOKS!!

oeo
04-30-2008, 11:32 AM
The main issue coming into the season was the back end of the rotation. They've pitched fine (and sometimes great). Right now, we have two entirely different problems: our offense and bullpen. I don't know how anyone can say they know what's coming. Did you see the quick starts by our rotation?

All that said, we're in first place not because we've played well, but because the rest of the division has not. We're in a good situation for the long run, because we're right where we need to be (it's not like we're 8 games back), but being in first place is not something that should excite you. This team has not played well for the last couple of weeks. Luckily, the Indians and Tigers have problems of their own. Right now, we're beneficiaries of a very slow-starting division.

I'm in between those that are ready to blow things up, and those that think we're going to win the division. I still don't know what to expect. Not time to panic, yet not time to get overly excited. The team hasn't done anything to warrant either (yet).

angiew
04-30-2008, 11:33 AM
Am I upset with the way The Sox have been playing the last few games? Yes

Am I excited about the possibilities I see in this team?
Hell Yes

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 11:33 AM
[/list]He has really cooled off lately. Over the last 5 games he is 4-20 with 1 BB and 5 K.

With a 5 game stint of not playing due to injury in the middle.:rolleyes:

Mr.1Dog
04-30-2008, 11:38 AM
Am I upset with the way The Sox have been playing the last few games? Yes

Am I excited about the possibilities I see in this team?
Hell Yes

You know what I love? Rhetorical questions.:bandance::happybday

itsnotrequired
04-30-2008, 11:38 AM
With a 5 game stint of not playing due to injury in the middle.:rolleyes:

Over his last 6 he is 4-24 with 1 BB and 7 K. I forgot to include last night's game.

Forget the injury, he had started to slump beforehand. I'm not saying he is going to tank but I don't think anyone here believes he will be hitting .350 at the end of the season.

:doublerolleyes:

oeo
04-30-2008, 11:40 AM
Over his last 6 he is 4-24 with 1 BB and 7 K. I forgot to include last night's game.

Forget the injury, he had started to slump beforehand. I'm not saying he is going to tank but I don't think anyone here believes he will be hitting .350 at the end of the season.

:doublerolleyes:

He had a rough series against the Yankees, and then got hurt. I don't think you can call it a 'slump' yet.

As for saying Crede is off to a hot start...bleh. If by off to a hot start, he meant the first couple of weeks, then yes. His production has gone way down as of late.

balke
04-30-2008, 11:41 AM
Ok so for one reason or another Sports Radio and Newspapers and fans alike have been excited about the White Sox saying how good they look throughout the first month of the year.


Now my question is why? This team has a pretty good rotation but their lineup is so one dimensional its scary. This team is exactly like the 2004 White Sox. Home Run or nothing. Leaving so many guys on base is getting old is going to kill them as the season goes on.

Everyone talks about now they have a "Never quit" attitude. Well they should have ALWAYS had that.

I hope I'm wrong but after the first month of the season I don't see this team winning more than 82 games. An improvment from last year? Sure. But I don't want an improvment. I want another championship.


If that 2004 team had no health issues and a 5th starter worth a crap all season, they would've most likely made it to the series. This bullpen is better, the defense is better, the team looks good.

It's awesome you can be pessimistic and pretend you see through something, but I'm not buying into it. This team hasn't even shown what it can do offensively IMO. Once it heats up, noone's going to want to play the White Sox.

ondafarm
04-30-2008, 11:44 AM
If you think the Twins have the manpower to finish solidly ahead of the White Sox then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell ya'.

Why excited? The White Sox have been getting solid starting pitching. They have also been scoring a lot of runs and not thanks to a lot of blowouts, but a consistent offense. That's two things the Sox did not have last year. The defense has been solid with Crede back and Cabrera is a legit gold glover at SS. The bullpen was overhauled and seems solid enough.

Things the Sox need. a genuine lead-off guy. The ability to score small ball runs. To avoid teams that run, run, run them into the ground, they have no defense against the stolen base. The Sox need to figure out second base. Uribe isn't cutting it. Ozuna is not the answer, Alexei isn't showing anything against major league pitching. Fortunately, the Sox also have options within their system against all of these except the stolen base.

Jaffar
04-30-2008, 11:45 AM
If that 2004 team had no health issues and a 5th starter worth a crap all season, they would've most likely made it to the series. This bullpen is better, the defense is better, the team looks good.

It's awesome you can be pessimistic and pretend you see through something, but I'm not buying into it. This team hasn't even shown what it can do offensively IMO. Once it heats up, noone's going to want to play the White Sox.

That's really the only fear I have about this team, I just hope we aren't saying that all season.

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 11:45 AM
Over his last 6 he is 4-24 with 1 BB and 7 K. I forgot to include last night's game.

Forget the injury, he had started to slump beforehand. I'm not saying he is going to tank but I don't think anyone here believes he will be hitting .350 at the end of the season.

:doublerolleyes:

My point is that often people who take time off for injury don't do it immediately. What they think is a twinge that they try to play through turns into something that needs rest, but by then they've already tried to play through it for several days putting up crappy stats in the process.

He'll get back in the groove and be fine. Just needs to swing the bat a couple of times.

anewman35
04-30-2008, 11:46 AM
All that said, we're in first place not because we've played well, but because the rest of the division has not. We're in a good situation for the long run, because we're right where we need to be (it's not like we're 8 games back), but being in first place is not something that should excite you.

Being in first place is always something exciting. I mean, yes, it's MORE exciting to be in first place by 10 games with a team on pace to win 120 games, but so far, we're the best team, and that's never not going to excite me. Sure, we probably have to play better, but due to our start we can afford to slip up a little more than any other team in the division, and that's exciting.

oeo
04-30-2008, 11:47 AM
It's awesome you can be pessimistic and pretend you see through something, but I'm not buying into it. This team hasn't even shown what it can do offensively IMO. Once it heats up, noone's going to want to play the White Sox.

Well, in fairness, we said the same thing all year in 2007. This is a better offensive squad, no doubt, but the 'these are proven hitters, they're going hit' crap isn't doing it for me anymore. I need to see some results first.

You do bring up a good point about our defense: it's definitely one of the best in baseball. The bullpen still has a lot to prove before I say they're 'better', though. We had a great bullpen in April last year, then they went to the ****ter. That's not to say this one will do the same...it's a new year, but they haven't done much to get me excited.

AZChiSoxFan
04-30-2008, 11:48 AM
Ok so for one reason or another Sports Radio and Newspapers and fans alike have been excited about the White Sox saying how good they look throughout the first month of the year.


Now my question is why? This team has a pretty good rotation but their lineup is so one dimensional its scary. This team is exactly like the 2004 White Sox. Home Run or nothing. Leaving so many guys on base is getting old is going to kill them as the season goes on.

Everyone talks about now they have a "Never quit" attitude. Well they should have ALWAYS had that.

I hope I'm wrong but after the first month of the season I don't see this team winning more than 82 games. An improvment from last year? Sure. But I don't want an improvment. I want another championship.

First of all, my disclaimer. I always love the Sox and love to follow them. If they were 50-111 heading into the last day of the season, I would watch the last game, and after the game, I would be sad that they were done playing for another year.

However, I tend to think you are correct. Don't forget that last year, the Sox didn't seem to be a bad team even through May. Also, it seems like all we heard all year was that "eventually, the Sox will start hitting." Well, people finally just stopped saying that once September rolled around. The suspended game is a perfect example of what's wrong with this team. A billion chances for one hit to win the game. The Sox tried to bunt twice in the late innings and if just ONE of those bunts is successful, the Sox almost for sure win the game. Then, despite all of those screw ups, the Sox would still have won if Jenks could have done his job. To sum, I'm very pleased with the starters, but I believe the bullpen and the O (lack of it) will keep this team from contending.

oeo
04-30-2008, 11:50 AM
Being in first place is always something exciting. I mean, yes, it's MORE exciting to be in first place by 10 games with a team on pace to win 120 games, but so far, we're the best team, and that's never not going to excite me. Sure, we probably have to play better, but due to our start we can afford to slip up a little more than any other team in the division, and that's exciting.

I feel the same way about the Sox being in first place right now, as I did when the Cubs "took over" first last year while they were hovering .500. It's not anything to write home about...we've seen mediocrity.

anewman35
04-30-2008, 11:54 AM
I feel the same way about the Sox being in first place right now, as I did when the Cubs "took over" first last year while they were hovering .500. It's not anything to write home about...we've seen mediocrity.

That's certainly true. However, mediocrity and a little luck can lead to a World Series (see: 2006 St. Louis Cardinals). Is being in first automatically the most exciting thing ever? Of course not. But it's more exciting than being in any other spot in the standings.

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 11:57 AM
Speed killllllllllllls

I guess I'm excited because they are finally embracing the way baseball has been played in the new millennium, i.e. looking for guys with good-great patience and OBP and not relying on speed. They finally understand that it isn't 1959.

That and the fact that there is no way we leave this many guys stranded all season.

...oh, plus Danks and Floyd look pretty great.

oeo
04-30-2008, 11:57 AM
That's certainly true. However, mediocrity and a little luck can lead to a World Series (see: 2006 St. Louis Cardinals). Is being in first automatically the most exciting thing ever? Of course not. But it's more exciting than being in any other spot in the standings.

I don't think excited is the best word. I'm happy that they're not anywhere else in this division, but they haven't shown much to be excited about as a team. There are a few individuals that I'm excited about in Swisher, TCQ, Danks, Logan, and Floyd...but as a team, there's nothing really there.

You should be happy they're in first place, but how does the team's play 'excite' you?

thomas35forever
04-30-2008, 11:58 AM
Time to Cell, sorry, sell.

PorkChopExpress
04-30-2008, 12:00 PM
All that said, we're in first place not because we've played well, but because the rest of the division has not.

This is what scares me. We are lucky to be in first right now with the way this team has played. We needed to make some serious distance between us and the other teams when they were playing poorly. Instead we played poorly, too. Now Detroit is starting to pull it together and could be on our tails before you know it.

As for why I am excited about this team, Quentin is playing like a stud, Floyd and Danks have looked really good so far, Contreras is not sucking and has been improving steadily, Crede is playing like it's his walk year, Linebrink looks like a solid addition, and Pierzynski is hitting again.

On the other hand, Konerko, Thome and Uribe look like they are repeating last year, and they are infecting Swisher. Cabrera has made some decent plays in the field but has blown a lot as well - not gold glove caliber so far. 10, 12 14 LOB. We continue to make pitchers the White Sox had never previously faced look like Cy Young. We're still struggling against lefties. The Orioles have Jenks' number. Blah blah.

So there is plenty to be excited about, but there is plenty to be concerned about as well. I really hope Konerko and Thome can start getting it together and hitting, or I fear that will be a big problem soon. You can't have your 3 and 4 hitters hitting under .240.

balke
04-30-2008, 12:05 PM
That's really the only fear I have about this team, I just hope we aren't saying that all season.

I meant the weather more than the team. Once the Sox start knocking even more HR's out, lookout. Some players are probably overperforming at this point. But, with a little heat Thome, Swisher, Konerko, Dye, Crede, AJ, Quentin, all these guys are going to be going yard more often.

aryzner
04-30-2008, 12:06 PM
I don't necessarily want "going yard more often," I want them driving in everyone they get on base.

infohawk
04-30-2008, 12:08 PM
I can't say that they will or won't make the playoffs, but here's why I'm excited about this team. They are in first place at the end of April. They have been getting good starting pitching, and the bullpen is vastly improved. The defense, particularly in the infield, is above average.

Here's the key, though. The White Sox are first in the League in runs scored per game, but last in the League in batting average. In other words, they are scoring a bunch of runs on a consistent basis, and haven't even really begun to hit. They are drawing walks and hitting homers, but there's lots of room for individual batting averages to rise. This is the opposite of having several players off to hot starts whose numbers will tail off. Think about that.

Remember how hot the Indians got in 2005 (how could we forget!) from the summer until almost taking the Sox out during the last week of the season? This team has the potential to get that hot, and they have the added advantage of not having fallen way behind early like the 2005 Indians. Imagine if the Sox begin putting up offensive numbers like the 2006 team did. It's not a stretch to imagine that happening. Many of the same guys are here.

I think this team would turn into a monster if they could get a more traditional lead-off hitter, allowing Swisher to move down in the order. Those two moves, with an emphasis on moving Swish down, could be huge.

Jaffar
04-30-2008, 12:11 PM
I don't necessarily want "going yard more often," I want them driving in everyone they get on base.

To be specific, a higher team batting average.

balke
04-30-2008, 12:14 PM
I don't necessarily want "going yard more often," I want them driving in everyone they get on base.

Hrm. I wonder if hitting a homerun could possibly get the runner(s) on base to cross home plate? Maybe even the guy at home plate could cross? Brilliant.

aryzner
04-30-2008, 12:22 PM
Sorry if I'm not a fan of the "home run or bust" attitude. We already lead the AL in HRs, and that's obviously not enough.

balke
04-30-2008, 12:24 PM
Sorry if I'm not a fan of the "home run or bust" attitude. We already lead the AL in HRs, and that's obviously not enough.


Obviously? 1st place by 2.5 games buddy. Quit jumping off buildings everytime the Sox lose a freaking game people. The stupidity of it all is maddening.

beasly213
04-30-2008, 12:25 PM
I didn't mean to be doom and gloom when starting this thread I just wanted to know why everyone was so excited for a team with a one dimensional lineup.

Of course I'm happy their in first place but something has to be done about the hitting and has to be done soon. Like everyone was saying last year everyone kept telling up "The hitting will come around" It never did. With the rest of the division struggling now is the time to try and take a big lead over them.

I like our rotation a lot and our bullpen has been pretty good. Maybe Walker has to change the hitting approach for our guys as I'm seeing WAAAY to many lazy pop ups from the middle of the order.

I just don't want to settle for mediocracy from a team that should be able to win this division.

balke
04-30-2008, 12:27 PM
I didn't mean to be doom and gloom when starting this thread I just wanted to know why everyone was so excited for a team with a one dimensional lineup.

Of course I'm happy their in first place but something has to be done about the hitting and has to be done soon. Like everyone was saying last year everyone kept telling up "The hitting will come around" It never did. With the rest of the division struggling now is the time to try and take a big lead over them.

I like our rotation a lot and our bullpen has been pretty good. Maybe Walker has to change the hitting approach for our guys as I'm seeing WAAAY to many lazy pop ups from the middle of the order.

I just don't want to settle for mediocracy from a team that should be able to win this division.

They are on the way so far. They didn't even lose the Baltimore game. They stayed alive in it because That one dimensional lineup hit a one dimensional Homerun that tied it.

What lineup do you people want that is so much better? Jerry Owens isn't going to do anything for the Sox at the Top IMO. People seem to love Detroit's lineup, and for the exception of Granderson, what's the real difference? They have even more HR guys on that team, and the defense isn't as good as the Sox.

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 12:30 PM
The resentment for the home run is mind boggling.

Also, comparisons to this lineup and the 2007 lineup are hilariously invalid. Were you guys even around to see that piece of **** team?

aryzner
04-30-2008, 12:30 PM
Obviously? 1st place by 2.5 games buddy. Quit jumping off buildings everytime the Sox lose a freaking game people. The stupidity of it all is maddening.
All I'm saying is I want more from that offense not necessarily in the form of the home run. 2.5 games is not enough for me when looking back there's at least 3-4 games we should have won so we could be more like 4-5 games in first.

Mostly right now it's the last O's game that irks me.

It just feels like the Sox have not been playing well enough to deserve first place at this point, and I want to feel that they deserve to be there.

balke
04-30-2008, 12:35 PM
All I'm saying is I want more from that offense not necessarily in the form of the home run. 2.5 games is not enough for me when looking back there's at least 3-4 games we should have won so we could be more like 4-5 games in first.

Mostly right now it's the last O's game that irks me.

It just feels like the Sox have not been playing well enough to deserve first place at this point, and I want to feel that they deserve to be there.

Well that games not even over yet, so relax I say. Plus, Sox hitters will hit in the bottom of the order, so a homerun could win it.

balke
04-30-2008, 12:37 PM
The resentment for the home run is mind boggling.

Also, comparisons to this lineup and the 2007 lineup are hilariously invalid. Were you guys even around to see that piece of **** team?

Exactly. Grinders, and guys who hit "when it matters". ERSTAD... BLECH!. Honestly, Swisher + Cabrera, versus Pods + Erstad. No brainer so far.

This is a healthier team with more spark, more power, and more experience.

oeo
04-30-2008, 12:37 PM
Obviously? 1st place by 2.5 games buddy. Quit jumping off buildings everytime the Sox lose a freaking game people. The stupidity of it all is maddening.

Most people are not 'jumping off buildings.' They're 2.5 games ahead because no one else in the division is above .500.

Some things need to change before there's excitement, is all. There are issues with this team. Maybe they're just early problems, but it's hard to believe that theory when this has been ongoing for over a year. Hopefully they are just early problems, then there is reason for optimism and excitement. They need to show me that they're going to hit, and they're going to consistently finish off ballgames, though.

There are at least three games in the last two weeks that should have been won. They should have swept that Oakland series, the same goes for the series in Baltimore, and should have taken two out of three from the Yankees. They also blew leads in that final Yankees game, and the second game of the double header against Baltimore (they won both, but you still can't ignore the fact that they never should have came to the point of needing a walk-off hit). Anyways, winning those games is a three game improvement and things are looking good.

If you know for a fact that the problems with this team are going to change, then we have a serious shot at this division. It's hard to believe that, though, when these problems have been going on since July of 2006.

jdm2662
04-30-2008, 12:44 PM
This team, like every team in the MLB, has issues. I'm neither excited or scared right now. It's April. Lots can happen from now until whenever. If the Sox are still in first place by June, I might get excited. There is no one in the AL right now that strikes me as a dangerous team. No team has less than 11 loses, the same amount the Sox have right now.

One thing is for certain, I hate the ****ing Metrodump. That will never change.

That said, I'm hardly upset the Sox are 2.5 ahead in first place. I just know it might change.

aryzner
04-30-2008, 12:45 PM
I think I can relate it to the movie Ghostbusters 2.

There is so much negativity about the Sox that is left over from last year's trainwreck of a team, much like there was tons of negativity surrounding our friends the 'busters in NYC, that we all need a symbol to give us hope and reason to be happy about them again.

The symbol they needed was the Statue of Liberty.

The symbol I need is hitting and not leaving ridiculous amounts of runners left on base.

Last year is slowly brushing off but I still am not a complete believer in this team until I stop sometimes seeing these shades of last year that have been happening.

...and there's my ridiculous post of the day!

All that being said... Go Sox!:bandance:

areilly
04-30-2008, 01:06 PM
This team, like every team in the MLB, has issues. I'm neither excited or scared right now. It's April. Lots can happen from now until whenever. If the Sox are still in first place by June, I might get excited. There is no one in the AL right now that strikes me as a dangerous team. No team has less than 11 loses, the same amount the Sox have right now.

I agree it's early, but I have to disagree with you. 17-11 might not sound like a juggernaut, but the Angels getting there without Lackey and Escobar reeks of danger.

beasly213
04-30-2008, 03:51 PM
Todays game is another prime example as to why I'm not excited about this year.

Guys on base and we can't even get them close to coming in to score.

A good pitching performance wasted once again by our one dimensional lineup.

The sad thing is I don't have any answers to fix it. And I don't think the Sox do either.

itsnotrequired
04-30-2008, 03:54 PM
He'll get back in the groove and be fine. Just needs to swing the bat a couple of times.

0-4 today with two more Ks.

:redneck

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 04:01 PM
Your what hurts?
One month in, they are in first place, and still the complaints...

:threadsucks
They're in first place because nobody in the division is winning right now...
HOWEVER, there are reasons to be optimistic...
Danks looks like a No.1 pitcher...
Floyd doesn't suck and could be quite good...
Contreras, everyone's question mark at the start of the season, has been good....
Vasquez has been very good...
Quentin might turn out to be a serviceable every-day player...
But the fact this team refuses to insert any speed into its lineup and has bogged down the lineup with long-term contracts to guys like Dye and Konerko to go along with Thome and the hot-and-cold Cabrera, leaves this team with that all-or-nothing, station-to-station lineup that seldom wins titles.
Had KW played this right, he could have had Owens, Fields and Anderson in the lineup for about a total of $4 million, leaving around $30 million per year to play with.

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 04:03 PM
They're in first place because nobody in the division is winning right now...
HOWEVER, there are reasons to be optimistic...
Danks looks like a No.1 pitcher...
Floyd doesn't suck and could be quite good...
Contreras, everyone's question mark at the start of the season, has been good....
Vasquez has been very good...
Quentin might turn out to be a serviceable every-day player...
But the fact this team refuses to insert any speed into its lineup and has bogged down the lineup with long-term contracts to guys like Dye and Konerko to go along with Thome and the hot-and-cold Cabrera, leaves this team with that all-or-nothing, station-to-station lineup that seldom wins titles.
Had KW played this right, he could have had Owens, Fields and Anderson in the lineup for about a total of $4 million, leaving around $30 million per year to play with.

:chunks

TDog
04-30-2008, 04:09 PM
Man, get one game you should have won suspended and lose the next and the Thunderheads start booming...

WHY? Because everything that needs to break right for the Sox to be contenders currently is breaking right:

The young starters are pitching well AND Contreras is rebounding nicely
TCQ is playing like he deserves the nickname TCQ
Dye is off to a hot start
Crede is off to a hot start
Ozzie is playing a consistent lineup :o:Oh and of course...

The Sox are in first place by more than a game as the month of April comes to a close.

That's why...

Add to that they are playing in a soft division. People look at the hitters, but only Kansas City seems to be able to match the Sox pitching, and the Royals pitchers have been quite inconsistent of late.

The Sox have trouble with the Twins, who seem not to play as well against other teams as they play against the Sox. The Twins came into the series against the Sox losing two of three at home to Texas. Sunday they lost a 10-0 game to a team that not only has major league baseball's worst ERA, but also leads the majors in unearned runs allowed.

But I think this is going to be a Sox team that improves as the season goes on. The infield is capable of playing Gold Glove-quality defense. The outfield seems solid, and Anderson is contributing off the bench. Thome and Konerko will hit. Swisher will hit. Cabrera will hit.

People say that so-and-so will hit stuff about the Tigers, too, but the Tigers will have to club teams to death with that rotation and that bullpen. Any team that relies on hitting alone won't succeed over the long haul because there will be days when even the best of hitters won't hit.

DSpivack
04-30-2008, 04:15 PM
Add to that they are playing in a soft division. People look at the hitters, but only Kansas City seems to be able to match the Sox pitching, and the Royals pitchers have been quite inconsistent of late.

The Sox have trouble with the Twins, who seem not to play as well against other teams as they play against the Sox. The Twins came into the series against the Sox losing two of three at home to Texas. Sunday they lost a 10-0 game to a team that not only has major league baseball's worst ERA, but also leads the majors in unearned runs allowed.

But I think this is going to be a Sox team that improves as the season goes on. The infield is capable of playing Gold Glove-quality defense. The outfield seems solid, and Anderson is contributing off the bench. Thome and Konerko will hit. Swisher will hit. Cabrera will hit.

People say that so-and-so will hit stuff about the Tigers, too, but the Tigers will have to club teams to death with that rotation and that bullpen. Any team that relies on hitting alone won't succeed over the long haul because there will be days when even the best of hitters won't hit.

Sabathia is off to a horrible start, but he should come around and at the least become decent again; their other starters are off to a good start. Although they have some serious bullpen questions and I don't think their lineup is all that great. I do agree with you on the Tigers pitching staff.

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 04:49 PM
Add to that they are playing in a soft division. People look at the hitters, but only Kansas City seems to be able to match the Sox pitching, and the Royals pitchers have been quite inconsistent of late.

The Sox have trouble with the Twins, who seem not to play as well against other teams as they play against the Sox. The Twins came into the series against the Sox losing two of three at home to Texas. Sunday they lost a 10-0 game to a team that not only has major league baseball's worst ERA, but also leads the majors in unearned runs allowed.

But I think this is going to be a Sox team that improves as the season goes on. The infield is capable of playing Gold Glove-quality defense. The outfield seems solid, and Anderson is contributing off the bench. Thome and Konerko will hit. Swisher will hit. Cabrera will hit.

People say that so-and-so will hit stuff about the Tigers, too, but the Tigers will have to club teams to death with that rotation and that bullpen. Any team that relies on hitting alone won't succeed over the long haul because there will be days when even the best of hitters won't hit.


I completely agree. I've been thinking all along that this team will be stronger in August than it is now as players fall into their rolls and as the 2B situation clarifies. By then the Sox will have a set bullpen be that because players actually pitch like they are capable of or because KW makes some more trades to fill in missing pieces.

First place at the end of April and our top 4 hitters aren't close to hitting like they are expected to. How anyone can see that as anything but a positive is beyond me...

sullythered
04-30-2008, 04:59 PM
It's getting closer and closer to the day that we just go ahead and rename this board "Dark Clouds vs. Pollyannas." (Or maybe Statheads vs. Old-School)

TDog
04-30-2008, 05:07 PM
Sabathia is off to a horrible start, but he should come around and at the least become decent again; their other starters are off to a good start. Although they have some serious bullpen questions and I don't think their lineup is all that great. I do agree with you on the Tigers pitching staff.

By "they," do you mean the Indians? The Indians are the only possible antecedent to your pronoun. This is my assumption. But enough with the grammar.

I don't know what is going on with Sabathia, who has most recently pitched great with a big lead and last lost to the Yankees 1-0. Verlander seems to have become a pitcher who can only give a team five innings before getting hit. I don't know if that is because he has lost effectiveness with a pitch and the hitters aren't looking for it the third time around the order or if he is tiring. Pitching is such a fragile commodity.

Cliff Lee, even more than Danks and Floyd, has been the big positive pitching surprise in baseball in April. Unlike Danks, he doesn't seem to fall apart when he allows a baserunner. I don't know what is going on with Lee either.

Last season, the White Sox had more wins against AL Central teams than any other team in the division, but it was the AL East, AL West and NL that killed them. Even the Pirates killed them. This year, I believe the Sox have a better chance in the Central than they would if they were in the East or the West.

But that isn't to say I am confident because the Sox play in a soft division. Fans that go into the season excited about their teams chances because their team plays in a soft division are more often disappointed. I'm excited because I think this Sox team could develop into a strong team both in the field and at the plate.

The Dude
04-30-2008, 05:24 PM
My point is that often people who take time off for injury don't do it immediately. What they think is a twinge that they try to play through turns into something that needs rest, but by then they've already tried to play through it for several days putting up crappy stats in the process.

He'll get back in the groove and be fine. Just needs to swing the bat a couple of times.

Yeah but the problem with that is that Dye hasn't been in the 'groove' for quite some time regardless of the injury. He has also lost more than a step in the field and just seems to be going through the motions with every other aspect of the game. He is destined to be a DH and I think he will be within the next couple years.
Our outfield of CQ, Swish, and either Owens or Anderson is much better than any outfield that includes Dye.

DSpivack
04-30-2008, 05:25 PM
By "they," do you mean the Indians? The Indians are the only possible antecedent to your pronoun. This is my assumption. But enough with the grammar.

I don't know what is going on with Sabathia, who has most recently pitched great with a big lead and last lost to the Yankees 1-0. Verlander seems to have become a pitcher who can only give a team five innings before getting hit. I don't know if that is because he has lost effectiveness with a pitch and the hitters aren't looking for it the third time around the order or if he is tiring. Pitching is such a fragile commodity.

Cliff Lee, even more than Danks and Floyd, has been the big positive pitching surprise in baseball in April. Unlike Danks, he doesn't seem to fall apart when he allows a baserunner. I don't know what is going on with Lee either.

Last season, the White Sox had more wins against AL Central teams than any other team in the division, but it was the AL East, AL West and NL that killed them. Even the Pirates killed them. This year, I believe the Sox have a better chance in the Central than they would if they were in the East or the West.

But that isn't to say I am confident because the Sox play in a soft division. Fans that go into the season excited about their teams chances because their team plays in a soft division are more often disappointed. I'm excited because I think this Sox team could develop into a strong team both in the field and at the plate.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the Indians.

Yeah, I agree with what you said. The White Sox have many questions surrounding them, but so does every other team in the division. Detroit has serious pitching issues; Cleveland's lineup hasn't been great thus far and their bullpen has serious issues; Minnesota hasn't been hitting or pitching well; and the Royals are improving but don't seem to be all there yet.

The Dude
04-30-2008, 05:26 PM
0-4 today with two more Ks.

:redneck

Don't hate, he was World Series MVP for heaven's sake!
:redneck

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 05:30 PM
Yeah but the problem with that is that Dye hasn't been in the 'groove' for quite some time regardless of the injury. He has also lost more than a step in the field and just seems to be going through the motions with every other aspect of the game. He is destined to be a DH and I think he will be within the next couple years.
Our outfield of CQ, Swish, and either Owens or Anderson is much better than any outfield that includes Dye.

I think the injury caused his loss of groove, so at least give it a chance to play out. In addition, his defense has returned to adequate and that means that neither BA nor JO would be a good substitute for him. I mean what glove in the world is worth the 200+ OPS points you are talking about giving up. Heck, before that, switch Quinten and Dye thus moving Dye to an easier position to play defensively without removing his .900+ OPS potential from the every day lineup.

BA ? Owens? :gah:

jabrch
04-30-2008, 05:32 PM
Just for the record, the evidence is mounting to prove the case that our "fans" really suck, moreso than ever before.

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 05:34 PM
Don't hate, he was World Series MVP for heaven's sake!
:redneck

Check his stats, he's done a lot more than that since then. In fact with the exception of the first half of last season when he was injured, he's been the most productive hitter on the team, but go ahead, assume it's nostalgia that is causing other people to like Dye and think replacing him with guys who have an OPS of .700 is a bad idea...

JB98
04-30-2008, 05:40 PM
It's getting closer and closer to the day that we just go ahead and rename this board "Dark Clouds vs. Pollyannas." (Or maybe Statheads vs. Old-School)

Which will make it hard for me because I'm neither. I do not think this is going to be a great White Sox team. However, this is not "2007 all over again," as some here suggest. I think this team will settle somewhere in the 80s as far as a win total. Maybe we'll win 88 and the rest of our division will suck all year and we'll make the playoffs. Maybe we'll play a little above what I think our ceiling is and we'll challenge for the division title. I don't know.

The Brian Anderson debates have been interesting for me too. I've been pretty hard on BA the last couple years, but he's finally progressed to the point where I think he's our fourth outfielder. The people who think BA should be starting and the people who want to send BA back to the minors both hate me. :D:

sullythered
04-30-2008, 05:47 PM
Which will make it hard for me because I'm neither. I do not think this is going to be a great White Sox team. However, this is not "2007 all over again," as some here suggest. I think this team will settle somewhere in the 80s as far as a win total. Maybe we'll win 88 and the rest of our division will suck all year and we'll make the playoffs. Maybe we'll play a little above what I think our ceiling is and we'll challenge for the division title. I don't know.

The Brian Anderson debates have been interesting for me too. I've been pretty hard on BA the last couple years, but he's finally progressed to the point where I think he's our fourth outfielder. The people who think BA should be starting and the people who want to send BA back to the minors both hate me. :D:
I am right there with you on both accounts. I don't think we have a great team, but we have a chance.

I really think people forget how horrible last year really was. I have family members who have been watching the Sox for 40 years who told me that last year was the first time they stopped watching the Sox altogether before the season was done. This team is totally different.

I thought BA should get the starting spot out of spring training, but clearly I was wrong. Carlos has been a beast. I still like BA in center over Alexei, though.

sullythered
04-30-2008, 05:49 PM
Just for the record, the evidence is mounting to prove the case that our "fans" really suck, moreso than ever before.
Que?:scratch:

VeeckAsInWreck
04-30-2008, 05:52 PM
Check his stats, he's done a lot more than that since then. In fact with the exception of the first half of last season when he was injured, he's been the most productive hitter on the team, but go ahead, assume it's nostalgia that is causing other people to like Dye and think replacing him with guys who have an OPS of .700 is a bad idea...

Voodoo, I totally agree with you. Maybe Dye hasn't had the big games but he has been quietly contributing. The few times he makes an error (no one's perfect) people here jump all over him about getting out of here.

It's become some sort of thing where if a guy played on the '05 team and they're still here you can't like them anymore.

JB98
04-30-2008, 05:55 PM
I am right there with you on both accounts. I don't think we have a great team, but we have a chance.

I really think people forget how horrible last year really was. I have family members who have been watching the Sox for 40 years who told me that last year was the first time they stopped watching the Sox altogether before the season was done. This team is totally different.

I thought BA should get the starting spot out of spring training, but clearly I was wrong. Carlos has been a beast. I still like BA in center over Alexei, though.

Since this is a thread about why Sox fans should be excited, Quentin is a guy who should be mentioned prominently. I wasn't excited about the acquisition when it was made, but then I saw the guy play in spring training and it changed my mind.

We had a thread here late in March where the question was "Anderson or Owens?" I answered Carlos Quentin, and Daver got pissed at me for hijacking the thread. :D:

Last year was the worst year I've ever suffered through as a Sox fan. I know that not everyone here feels the same, but every person is a little different. I was just so disappointed with the long faces and poor effort from the players. I don't see that as a problem this year.

Hey, I just stumbled across another reason for excitement! I feel that our players care again. I wasn't so sure that was the case in August of last season.

jabrch
04-30-2008, 06:27 PM
Que?:scratch:

a while ago the quality of Sox fans was much higher. In particular the quality of WSI posters was MUCH MUCH MUCH higher a few years ago.

MCHSoxFan
04-30-2008, 09:27 PM
Your what hurts?
One month in, they are in first place, and still the complaints...

:threadsucks

OH BOY IS DOES! I mean, dang! I am really mad at the White Sox these past 2 days. However, we have played really good. Also, what about our pitching?!?! WOW!!! Just...WOW!!!

Put it like this, if our pitching remains the same and the bats wake up...LOOK OUT!

MCHSoxFan
04-30-2008, 09:33 PM
Am I upset with the way The Sox have been playing the last few games? Yes

Am I excited about the possibilities I see in this team?
Hell Yes

EXACTLY what I was thinking!

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 09:34 PM
a while ago the quality of Sox fans was much higher. In particular the quality of WSI posters was MUCH MUCH MUCH higher a few years ago.
Agree. The fact that people want to bench one of the three outfielders is enough evidence for me.

TDog
05-01-2008, 12:36 AM
Which will make it hard for me because I'm neither. I do not think this is going to be a great White Sox team. However, this is not "2007 all over again," as some here suggest. I think this team will settle somewhere in the 80s as far as a win total. Maybe we'll win 88 and the rest of our division will suck all year and we'll make the playoffs. Maybe we'll play a little above what I think our ceiling is and we'll challenge for the division title. I don't know.

The Brian Anderson debates have been interesting for me too. I've been pretty hard on BA the last couple years, but he's finally progressed to the point where I think he's our fourth outfielder. The people who think BA should be starting and the people who want to send BA back to the minors both hate me. :D:

The funny thing is i have been accused at various times of being both Pollyanna and Dark Cloud. I was quite critically of the Sox catching during the offseason. I still think we could do better than Pierzynski defensively. I'm a Pollyanna, apparently, because I think the Sox have good starting pitching and even a good bullpen, despite a few failures. I'm a Dark Cloud because I have no confidence in Danks after he gives up his first hit. He will have to prove me wrong in his next start.

I'm not a Brian Anderson lover or a Brian Anderson hater. I think he could be a very good fourth outfielder and even fill in for an extended time if someone goes down.

Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes you should win, then it looks likes like you're going to lose and then you get suspended until August.

I think the White Sox could have a very good team this year. I hope that doesn't label me a Pollyanna.

soxlady8
05-01-2008, 12:50 AM
*Quentin is playing pretty darn great
*Swisher is an exciting player, entertainer, and advocate for children
*Danks and Floyd ( the youngin's ) look good thusfar
*I dig the double plays by Uribe and Cabrera ( but wake up them bats boys!)...
*I think Joe CLUTCH is still a fantastic third baseman ...
*Yes Dye, Konerko , and Big Jim are slow , but still when they hit some bombs.. beautiful!
*Contreras seems to have gotten over his personal issues
*Most of the games have gone down to the wire- there is alot of fight
in this team


**I have no idea how far this team will go , but the journey will be interesting and I think much better than last year

Thank You for allowing me my two cents on this topic -

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 02:11 AM
Which will make it hard for me because I'm neither. I do not think this is going to be a great White Sox team. However, this is not "2007 all over again," as some here suggest. I think this team will settle somewhere in the 80s as far as a win total. Maybe we'll win 88 and the rest of our division will suck all year and we'll make the playoffs. Maybe we'll play a little above what I think our ceiling is and we'll challenge for the division title. I don't know.

The Brian Anderson debates have been interesting for me too. I've been pretty hard on BA the last couple years, but he's finally progressed to the point where I think he's our fourth outfielder. The people who think BA should be starting and the people who want to send BA back to the minors both hate me. :D:
80-88 wins is exactly what everyone is complaining about...
It's not enough.
Who would settle for 80-88 wins with this payroll?

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 02:13 AM
Just for the record, the evidence is mounting to prove the case that our "fans" really suck, moreso than ever before.

Which Sox fans suck?

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 02:16 AM
Agree. The fact that people want to bench one of the three outfielders is enough evidence for me.
The quality of posters on here went up once I got here.

itsnotrequired
05-01-2008, 06:57 AM
Which Sox fans suck?

I suck.

The quality of posters on here went up once I got here.

:rolling:

jabrch
05-01-2008, 07:37 AM
Which Sox fans suck?

The sucky ones.

fquaye149
05-01-2008, 08:05 AM
Man, get one game you should have won suspended and lose the next and the Thunderheads start booming...

WHY? Because everything that needs to break right for the Sox to be contenders currently is breaking right:
The young starters are pitching well AND Contreras is rebounding nicely
TCQ is playing like he deserves the nickname TCQ
Dye is off to a hot start
Crede is off to a hot start
Ozzie is playing a consistent lineup :o:Oh and of course...

The Sox are in first place by more than a game as the month of April comes to a close.

That's why...

Bingo--what's exciting about this team is that we went into this season looking like the 3rd best team in the division at best, a team with a 10-1 shot at even CONTENDING for the playoff spot, and now we're clicking.

Our young pitchers are pitching, our young hitters are hitting, and we're looking like a team that is ready to play some baseball.

That is exciting.

ps: 2005

fquaye149
05-01-2008, 08:07 AM
Just for the record, the evidence is mounting to prove the case that our "fans" really suck, moreso than ever before.

it's true! we've got this one guy whose only line of reasoning for any discussion is "I think management knows better than we do because they are management". Can you believe that?!?!?

beasly213
05-01-2008, 10:35 AM
Just for the record, the evidence is mounting to prove the case that our "fans" really suck, moreso than ever before.


I fail to see how asking why are we all so excited about a team that has obvious issues in their lineup makes me and anyone else a fan that sucks.

This thread wasn't meant to be a downer thread it was meant to start a discussion on why people are excited about this team.

Yes we have some individual players to be excited about (Carlos, Danks and Floyd) but I'm not ready to drink the White Sox Kool Aid after a 14-12 April.

voodoochile
05-01-2008, 11:27 AM
I fail to see how asking why are we all so excited about a team that has obvious issues in their lineup makes me and anyone else a fan that sucks.

This thread wasn't meant to be a downer thread it was meant to start a discussion on why people are excited about this team.

Yes we have some individual players to be excited about (Carlos, Danks and Floyd) but I'm not ready to drink the White Sox Kool Aid after a 14-12 April.

Just to be picky, they were 14-11 when you started the thread.

And just to be picky again, your two statements (I colorized them) don't match or else your're a world class fence sitter.

I've already said why I feel good about this team. I said the same things in February and March. I'm not changing my opinion now.

I'll turn this around:

Why would you not be at least a little excited about the Sox ending April in first place with all of the young talent performing well and the veterans struggling a bit?

spiffie
05-01-2008, 11:31 AM
Which Sox fans suck?
Two kinds of Sox fans suck.

One kind of Sox fan is pretty much the same as the worst stereotype of the Cubs fan who just keeps saying "this is our year!" no matter what the evidence. They respond to any critique of their team with vitriol and anger.

The other kind of Sox fan who sucks is the one who really does think they are smarter than the organization and thinks the guys in charge are morons.

Both kinds of fans are being seen in this thread.

beasly213
05-01-2008, 11:36 AM
Why would you not be at least a little excited about the Sox ending April in first place with all of the young talent performing well and the veterans struggling a bit?



The veterans struggling again is what concerns me. We're not coming through with the big hit and it seems the wins were getting are ones where we hit a few solo home runs.

Last year when our vets were struggling all year we said "it will come around it will come around." It never did.

Now as far as least bit excited. I am loving how great Danks and Floyd have been pitching. Our three vets are looking good too.

While it is early I hate seeing this team blow chances over and over again to take a bigger lead in this division.

Everyone knows you can't win a division this early in the year but everyone also knows you can lose it.

voodoochile
05-01-2008, 11:50 AM
The veterans struggling again is what concerns me. We're not coming through with the big hit and it seems the wins were getting are ones where we hit a few solo home runs.

Last year when our vets were struggling all year we said "it will come around it will come around." It never did.

Now as far as least bit excited. I am loving how great Danks and Floyd have been pitching. Our three vets are looking good too.

While it is early I hate seeing this team blow chances over and over again to take a bigger lead in this division.

Everyone knows you can't win a division this early in the year but everyone also knows you can lose it.

Actually, Thome (.968 OPS) and Dye (.947 OPS) had fine second halves, but our pitching was terrible and there wasn't a legitimate leadoff hitter.

Younger more consistent people have replaced the veterans who didn't perform last year, unless you think Swish is going to fall off the map at 26.

Our top 4 hitters all had a crappy month and the Sox are in first place in their division and Thome and Konerko are within one solid week of their career averages.

Maybe down the road, Swish moves down in the order.

You could be right. Maybe guys like Swish and Cabrera are suddenly going to start sucking long term and Thome, Konerko and Dye are all through, but it's a little early to be making those predictions.

Still, given all of that and the Sox are STILL in first place. That should be a reason to be happy. Worrying about good players who are off to a bad start sucking for the rest of the year and dragging the team down with them is hedging your bets to an extreme.

Come on now, deep breath, let it out. One more. Now repeat after me.

The Sox are in first place.
The Sox are in first place.
The Sox are in first place.
(Repeat as necessary to remind yourself you're a fan and allowed to be a bit giddy over a nice start to the season.)

The Critic
05-01-2008, 12:15 PM
I don't know if I'm giddy, because they are just 14-12, but I'm happy that 14-12 is enough for the division lead a month into the season.
I really don't know how to feel about this team, because players I thought would be doing better aren't and players who I expected little from are producing. If things went the way I thought they might coming into the season, the Sox would probably be about 14-12 right now.
:D:
Obviously they're going to need to play better to maintain first place, because I highly doubt the entire division will continue to flounder under .500, but the nice thing is nobody else has run away with the division as I feared Detroit might. Instead of 14-12 being gloom and doom, I see it as an OK start which keeps the Sox on track to compete within the division.

Now I'm dizzy from all that windsocking.
:redneck

Frontman
05-01-2008, 12:22 PM
Have fun while the team is doing good. Be upset when its doing bad.

It's called fandom.

JB98
05-01-2008, 01:24 PM
80-88 wins is exactly what everyone is complaining about...
It's not enough.
Who would settle for 80-88 wins with this payroll?

It's JR's money, not mine.

Frontman
05-01-2008, 03:07 PM
The quality of posters on here went up once I got here.

Which post raised the bar, the Konerko stranding a million runners or your 'proof' that 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999 percent of men will cheat?

Bucky F. Dent
05-01-2008, 03:55 PM
Personally, I'm excited about the Sox, because what was considered to be the weakest part of our team at the start of the year, the rotation, has been quite strong through the first month.

I also don't think that you can over look the fact (and I think that many did) that we have a pretty darned good defense out there.

If we can keep that up and get a more consistent performance from the aspect of the club that was expected to be strong (that would be the bats!) this team will contend for a playoff spot.

RedHeadPaleHoser
05-01-2008, 03:58 PM
It's May 1, we're IN 1st, we have an above .500 record after one month down, coming off two games in a place we don't play real well. I'm not happy with the hitting, but I believe this team, with these players, CAN contend.

downstairs
05-01-2008, 04:09 PM
Why don't you wait until our first 8 game losing streak, or until we're 8-10 games back to post this stuff?