PDA

View Full Version : Either Konerko Or Thome Have To Go....Maybe Both?


Thome25
04-30-2008, 08:46 AM
I know....I know.....someone's gonna point out that Konerko is a 10-and-5 guy and he isn't going anywhere. But, we can hypothetically talk about it right? Isn't that what WTS is about?

I'm not going to use this thread to speculate some lame-ass trade. I'm just going to use it to discuss the fact that Konerko and/or Thome need to go.

Now, don't get me wrong.....I love both Konerko and Thome....look at my screenname after all. But, I want what's best for the White Sox and one or both of them needs to go.

My reasoning is that we have a log jam in the OF. IMO we have players in the OF playing out of position. Swisher is better suited for 1B or one of the corner OF spots and is not a leadoff man IMO. At this point in his career, Dye would be better at DH.

Owens should get a shot and as much as I've hated on BA he should probably get more playing time as well. (Maybe give BA some more playing time to showcase him in a trade?)

What do you think? I think we need to break up the lumbering, slow-footed, double-play, strikeout twins.

fquaye149
04-30-2008, 08:51 AM
Konerko for a bag of balls is looking like a better and better deal!:o:


:dtroll:

whitesoxwilkes
04-30-2008, 08:55 AM
****ing A, you'd think we were 10 games back at the deadline by some of the pants-pissing going on around this site. Trade all the veterans! Josh Fields will bring us more pie!

We're in first place. The season is a month old. Relax!

fquaye149
04-30-2008, 08:57 AM
****ing A, you'd think we were 10 games back at the deadline by some of the pants-pissing going on around this site. Trade all the veterans! Josh Fields will bring us more pie!

We're in first place. The season is a month old. Relax!

But can't we admit that Konerko should be traded to the Jndjans for cash considerations?

Thome25
04-30-2008, 09:01 AM
****ing A, you'd think we were 10 games back at the deadline by some of the pants-pissing going on around this site. Trade all the veterans! Josh Fields will bring us more pie!

We're in first place. The season is a month old. Relax!

There's no pants-pissing going on here just some calm, relaxed baseball discussion.

This topic affects us both now and in the future. I'm not being a chicken little here. :D:

whitesoxwilkes
04-30-2008, 09:02 AM
There's no pants-pissing going on here just some calm, relaxed baseball discussion.

This topic affects us both now and in the future. I'm not being a chicken little here. :D:

I know, and I see your points even if I disagree. Just trying to get the masses whipped in a frenzy, that's what I do best.

DSpivack
04-30-2008, 09:09 AM
Playing Jerry Owens instead of Jim Thome and Paul Konerko? Pass.

hi im skot
04-30-2008, 09:21 AM
:dtroll::dtroll::dtroll:

oeo
04-30-2008, 09:27 AM
Playing Jerry Owens instead of Jim Thome and Paul Konerko? Pass.

Yep, because Owens can change the whole dynamic of a game with his speed. Thome and Konerko? Blah, they're just middle-of-the-order guys...easily replacable.

PicktoCLick72
04-30-2008, 09:27 AM
I would hardly call it a logjam in the outfield as ony 3 (Swisher, Dye, Quientin) have shown they can play well. You don't just trade away ventrans because you have rookies. At the end of this season, this will all be sorted out. Relax and enjoy.

ondafarm
04-30-2008, 09:34 AM
There are roles for both guys. If I had to, I'd trade PK. I'd prefer to juggle the lineup first before dumping valuable guys.

spiffie
04-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Konerko, Dye, Fields, Anderson, and Danks to the Giants for Rowand and Lincecum.

Juice16
04-30-2008, 09:37 AM
I can't believe we are discussing trading Paulie or Thome just so the Sox can play Owens.

DSpivack
04-30-2008, 09:38 AM
Konerko, Dye, Fields, Anderson, and Danks to the Giants for Rowand and Lincecum.

You forgot about Ray-Ray! We should totally get him back to play 2B.

TomBradley72
04-30-2008, 09:45 AM
I voted for Thome. Not for this season...but for 2009. We could use the money to help retain Crede, or if that doesn't happen, at least we free up the DH slot for Jermaine and/or Paulie and the money can go towards pitching, a 2nd baseman or an OF to replace Dye. We need to get more athletic as a team and blend in some speed with our power.

Thome has been a great player and a class act...but he's another slow, base clogging slugger and (other than a few exceptions) lefties just kill him...especially the LOOGY's out of the bullpen in the 7th/8th/9th. He's more likely to decline in 2009 than improve.

Thome25
04-30-2008, 09:45 AM
I can't believe we are discussing trading Paulie or Thome just so the Sox can play Owens.

Not just so we can play Owens but, trading Thome and/or Konerko opens things up for other players or future players we could aquire.

I'm not saying trade them today, I'm just saying trade one and or both of them AT SOME POINT.

oeo
04-30-2008, 09:54 AM
Not just so we can play Owens but, trading Thome and/or Konerko opens things up for other players or future players we could aquire.

I'm not saying trade them today, I'm just saying trade one and or both of them AT SOME POINT.

Well, neither are going anywhere, unless Thome's option is not guaranteed by failing to meet his specified number of ABs. Even then, we might see him back next year.

I think you're failing to realize the impact those two guys have on our lineup. Maybe you wouldn't realize it until they were gone, but we've seen over the last couple of years how much this lineup hurt without Thome's presence in the lineup (when he's been hurt). Those two guys change the lineup more than Owens ever will. They're struggling right now...that doesn't mean they suck, and it surely doesn't mean we should deal them so we can get Owens and Anderson into the lineup more.

SoxGirl4Life
04-30-2008, 10:01 AM
Why not Dye, too, then? I mean, I couldn't watch anymore last night when Dye struck out to end whichever inning that was, with runners on first and second. They all carry some blame in these slumps. AJ and Crede too.

voodoochile
04-30-2008, 10:29 AM
Keep 'em both, Let's play for this year.

PopsBrechtel
04-30-2008, 10:32 AM
Keep 'em both, Let's play for this year.

I totally agree with you.

This is a non-discussion item.

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 10:54 AM
Every time the phrase "base-clogger" is typed, I have a small brain aneurysm.
How can someone clog a base? I'm just...at a loss for words. There are actually people in this universe who would rather have Jerry Owens in the lineup than Konerko/Thome.

thomas35forever
04-30-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm sure there are a bunch of other teams that would love to have one or both guys in their lineup. I just have a bad feeling that if one or both goes, they'll just come back to haunt us.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 11:00 AM
Thome CANNOT consistently hit left-handed pitching. He seems like a great guy, but you can't sit him for every left handed pitcher. He needs to go somewhere else.

Konerko should be a DH. He's a decent fielder, but cannot run. Besides that, Swisher should be playing first so that either Anderson (my pick), Ramirez or Owens could play center every day.

Dye is a great hitter, with a great arm, but he needs a motorized chair (thanks Jay Hood) to play the outfield. If the Sox could've convinced / told him he was a DH, we could have Fukudome.

I want a baseball team, not a softball team. Kenny seems to think they have a shot at winning it all this year. It's obvious from his acquistion of Cabrera and Swisher. I would have liked to see him create a baseball team. I don't think they have a chance in hell to win it this year.

My lineup, based on what they have now, would be...

Owens LF
Swisher 1B
Crede 3B
Konerko / Dye / Thome DH
Quentin RF
Pierzynski
Anderson CF
Ramirez SS
Uribe 2B

I know we'd see a lot of strikeouts from the bottom of the order, but this is a development year, not a year to win it all.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 11:06 AM
Every time the phrase "base-clogger" is typed, I have a small brain aneurysm.
How can someone clog a base? I'm just...at a loss for words. There are actually people in this universe who would rather have Jerry Owens in the lineup than Konerko/Thome.


Craig Grebeck was a baseball player, not a softball player. He wouldn't see the light of day on this team. Kenny has gotten rid of a lot of baseball players in the last few years....

Makowiak
Gload
Iguchi
Center Fielder for D'Backs (can't think of his name)

The Sox will be about 8 games out by the trade-deadline and I'm hoping Kenny sees that he needs to rebuild, not retool. I'm just pissed that he's going to be the ones making trades and we're going to get a bunch of softball player in return.

spiffie
04-30-2008, 11:06 AM
Thome CANNOT consistently hit left-handed pitching. He seems like a great guy, but you can't sit him for every left handed pitcher. He needs to go somewhere else.

Konerko should be a DH. He's a decent fielder, but cannot run. Besides that, Swisher should be playing first so that either Anderson (my pick), Ramirez or Owens could play center every day.

Dye is a great hitter, with a great arm, but he needs a motorized chair (thanks Jay Hood) to play the outfield. If the Sox could've convinced / told him he was a DH, we could have Fukudome.

I want a baseball team, not a softball team. Kenny seems to think they have a shot at winning it all this year. It's obvious from his acquistion of Cabrera and Swisher. I would have liked to see him create a baseball team. I don't think they have a chance in hell to win it this year.

My lineup, based on what they have now, would be...

Owens LF
Swisher 1B
Crede 3B
Konerko / Dye / Thome DH
Quentin RF
Pierzynski
Anderson CF
Ramirez SS
Uribe 2B

I know we'd see a lot of strikeouts from the bottom of the order, but this is a development year, not a year to win it all.
Wow. That's just an awful awful idea. I assume in this vision Orlando Cabrera is lured by pieces of candy into being trapped under a box and left in a giant warehouse?

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 11:10 AM
Wow. That's just an awful awful idea. I assume in this vision Orlando Cabrera is lured by pieces of candy into being trapped under a box and left in a giant warehouse?


I am thoroughly unimpressed with Cabrera. If I were the Sox, I wouldn't think about a long term deal. He's probably 3 years older than we think he is.

If I were Cabrera, I wouldn't think about a long term deal with a team not likely to win it all in the next 5-10 years.

If I remember right, Cabrera killed the Sox with Boston and Anaheim. What happened to him?

Oh, and what kind of candy?

SoxGirl4Life
04-30-2008, 11:13 AM
Wow. That's just an awful awful idea. I assume in this vision Orlando Cabrera is lured by pieces of candy into being trapped under a box and left in a giant warehouse?
:rolling:

sox1970
04-30-2008, 11:14 AM
Ooo.....piece of candy

Ooo.....piece of candy

Ooo.....piece of candy

Ooo.....piece of candy

Ooo.....piece of candy

Noneck
04-30-2008, 11:21 AM
My lineup, based on what they have now, would be...

Owens LF
Swisher 1B
Crede 3B
Konerko / Dye / Thome DH
Quentin RF
Pierzynski
Anderson CF
Ramirez SS
Uribe 2B


Konerko / Dye / Thome DH, quite a DH trio you have there, probably the highest paid DH in the history of baseball. Yea sure that will fly, when pigs do.

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 11:27 AM
Craig Grebeck was a baseball player, not a softball player. He wouldn't see the light of day on this team. Kenny has gotten rid of a lot of baseball players in the last few years....

Makowiak
Gload
Iguchi
Center Fielder for D'Backs (can't think of his name)

The Sox will be about 8 games out by the trade-deadline and I'm hoping Kenny sees that he needs to rebuild, not retool. I'm just pissed that he's going to be the ones making trades and we're going to get a bunch of softball player in return.
You are essentially saying Craig Grebeck is better at baseball than anyone on our roster. Brilliant.

For the four players you mentioned (2 of which are bench players, 1 of which brought one of the top 20 pitchers in baseball, and the other made room for Richar) we received pretty decent pitching prospects.

I hate this softball analogy. It is embarrassing.

Nellie_Fox
04-30-2008, 11:29 AM
I hate this softball analogy. It is embarrassing.Yet I have a feeling he's going to use it in nearly every post he makes.

kittle42
04-30-2008, 11:32 AM
Is the collective baseball IQ here worse than it's been in years?

Sad
04-30-2008, 11:33 AM
Is the collective baseball IQ here worse than it's been in years?

yes it is

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 11:49 AM
MOD EDIT: The language filter exists for a reason.

PicktoCLick72
04-30-2008, 11:55 AM
MOD EDIT: The language filter exists for a reason.


Do you have some kind of put option with the Sox staying at 72 wins? We would competing with Pirates and Nats for worst in baseball with your idea. Please stop posting and go play softball.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 12:01 PM
Do you have some kind of put option with the Sox staying at 72 wins? We would competing with Pirates and Nats for worst in baseball with your idea. Please stop posting and go play softball.


What's your ideal lineup with who they have now?

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 12:01 PM
Would you rather have guys who can hit but can't run or guys who can't hit but can run (Owens)?

kittle42
04-30-2008, 12:02 PM
MOD EDIT: The language filter exists for a reason.


I think I can list you quite a few hall of famers who fall into this category. Not everyone is a 5-tool player.

Let me guess - when you played Ice Hockey on Nintendo, your team didn't have any fat guys or tall skinny guys.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 12:05 PM
Do you have some kind of put option with the Sox staying at 72 wins? We would competing with Pirates and Nats for worst in baseball with your idea. Please stop posting and go play softball.


Also, tell me that you honestly believe that this team can win the Central? The ALCS? The Series?

What's the difference between 72 wins and 85 wins if you don't win the division or wild card?

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 12:07 PM
Would you rather have guys who can hit but can't run or guys who can't hit but can run (Owens)?

Hard to know if Owen can't hit if he's not in the Big Club's lineup. He did pretty well at the end of last year.

The Sox don't have enough money to "buy" a World Series. The only teams in that category right now are the Yanks, Red Sox and the dreaded Cubs.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 12:09 PM
I imagine there's a lot of you on the board that believe that Ozzie's a better manager than Gardenhire too!?!?

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 12:17 PM
Who told this softball player he could try to leg out a triple!?!?

"Awe shucks, I really thought I could make it."

TDog
04-30-2008, 02:19 PM
Why not include Nick Swisher in the poll? His stats are comparable to those of Jim Thome and Paul Konerko. Swisher drives in fewer runs, hits fewer home runs and walks more -- three more times than Thome coming into Wednesday's game. Swisher's strike outs are comparable, too.

Looking at Wednesday's game, it looks like all three of these players have had big hits this week.

You're not going to generate team speed from first base or DH. If you did, you would probably do so to the detriment of your offense.

kittle42
04-30-2008, 02:37 PM
Who told this softball player he could try to leg out a triple!?!?

"Awe shucks, I really thought I could make it."

I sense a theme in your posting.

Nellie_Fox
04-30-2008, 03:03 PM
Who told this softball player he could try to leg out a triple!?!?

"Awe shucks, I really thought I could make it."You're incredibly boring.

JB98
04-30-2008, 03:56 PM
soxfan44 is not a Sox fan.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 10:45 PM
You're incredibly boring.


Thanks. I'm also incredibly angry at this organIzation for falling so far so quickly from 2005.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 10:50 PM
soxfan44 is not a Sox fan.

I am a Sox fan and a realist. I've read these message boards before without being a member. There are a lot of very complacent fans and a lot of Kool Aid drinkers on the site. Wait a month until the Sox are in 4th place and you'll start to agree with me.

I hope I'm wrong, but with this SOFTBALL team thats where they're headed.

Nellie_Fox
05-01-2008, 12:00 AM
...with this SOFTBALL team thats where they're headed.You really think you've come up with something clever, don't you? Why not really go for the hyperbole and compare them to a Little League team?

thomas35forever
05-01-2008, 12:20 AM
I am a Sox fan and a realist. I've read these message boards before without being a member. There are a lot of very complacent fans and a lot of Kool Aid drinkers on the site. Wait a month until the Sox are in 4th place and you'll start to agree with me.

I hope I'm wrong, but with this SOFTBALL team thats where they're headed.
You know something? Members who make this many negative posts in a very short time (which is also the time span for the poster being a member) don't last long. If you can't say anything nice about the Sox, don't say anything at all. If you want your time at WSI to be short, that's fine by me.

QCIASOXFAN
05-01-2008, 12:41 AM
Voted Thome for all the reasons that other people who voted the same mentioned slow, strikeouts, can't hit lefties etc.

On a side note, I've been saying for well over a year now that we can't have Thome, Konerko, Dye and AJ all hitting in a row yet we still do. Now that's a log jam.

Bill Naharodny
05-01-2008, 12:57 AM
****ing A, you'd think we were 10 games back at the deadline by some of the pants-pissing going on around this site. Trade all the veterans! Josh Fields will bring us more pie!

We're in first place. The season is a month old. Relax!

3! 3! 3!

Exactly 3 posts until someone took a post and termed it "pants-pissing." Original! Fun! Not at all reactionary!

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 01:33 AM
Playing Jerry Owens instead of Jim Thome and Paul Konerko? Pass.
How about trading Konerko and playing Owens plus whoever they get for Konerko plus using the money they save by not having to pay Konerko the next 3 years?
Did you think this through?

Yep, because Owens can change the whole dynamic of a game with his speed. Thome and Konerko? Blah, they're just middle-of-the-order guys...easily replacable. Thome hits with men on base...Konerko doesn't do enough of that...Keep Thome.

I can't believe we are discussing trading Paulie or Thome just so the Sox can play Owens.
I think they are talking about dumping Paulie because he could be finished. And if he's not, he may not be too far away.
Also, they may want to move him so they can get something for him, although I'm sure his stock is down.

I voted for Thome. Not for this season...but for 2009. We could use the money to help retain Crede, or if that doesn't happen, at least we free up the DH slot for Jermaine and/or Paulie and the money can go towards pitching, a 2nd baseman or an OF to replace Dye. We need to get more athletic as a team and blend in some speed with our power.

Thome has been a great player and a class act...but he's another slow, base clogging slugger and (other than a few exceptions) lefties just kill him...especially the LOOGY's out of the bullpen in the 7th/8th/9th. He's more likely to decline in 2009 than improve.
You'd save about $7 mil with Thome dealt and $12 mil with Konerko dealt...Plus, Thome produces quite a bit more than Konerko.

Why not Dye, too, then? I mean, I couldn't watch anymore last night when Dye struck out to end whichever inning that was, with runners on first and second. They all carry some blame in these slumps. AJ and Crede too.Re-signing Dye was a horrible decision.

Every time the phrase "base-clogger" is typed, I have a small brain aneurysm.
How can someone clog a base? I'm just...at a loss for words. There are actually people in this universe who would rather have Jerry Owens in the lineup than Konerko/Thome.
Ya just won't understand. They aren't saying they want Owens in there straight up for Konerko, but rather to get his speed in the lineup along with whoever Konerko brings and the money they'd save...
You must be watching games the past two seasons on Konerko-Vision, where he hits around .300 with a lot of homers with men on base and seldom a double-play...
Winning teams move runners. Neither Dye nor Konerko moved many last year and can barely move, themselves.
They may also be typing just to watch you blow up. It is kinda fun.

I am thoroughly unimpressed with Cabrera. If I were the Sox, I wouldn't think about a long term deal. He's probably 3 years older than we think he is.

If I were Cabrera, I wouldn't think about a long term deal with a team not likely to win it all in the next 5-10 years.

If I remember right, Cabrera killed the Sox with Boston and Anaheim. What happened to him?

Oh, and what kind of candy?
I agree...
Cabrera has had an up-and-down career. He just looks disinterested or over-the-hill with the Sox. I hope like crazy the don't re-sign him and perhaps even move him soon.

You are essentially saying Craig Grebeck is better at baseball than anyone on our roster. Brilliant.

For the four players you mentioned (2 of which are bench players, 1 of which brought one of the top 20 pitchers in baseball, and the other made room for Richar) we received pretty decent pitching prospects.

I hate this softball analogy. It is embarrassing.
Who are these prospects? Sisco?

Is the collective baseball IQ here worse than it's been in years?
I'm new here, so can you tell which are considered to be the brightest on here? You and who else?

You know something? Members who make this many negative posts in a very short time (which is also the time span for the poster being a member) don't last long. If you can't say anything nice about the Sox, don't say anything at all. If you want your time at WSI to be short, that's fine by me.
So, a guy can't come on here like Sox44 and be critical of his team?
Does everyone on here have to be Kool-Aid drinkers?
That would be like sitting at a bar near the Urinal and talking Cubs with a bunch of those dorks.
"If you can't say something nice..." Is that really what they want on here?

EndemicSox
05-01-2008, 01:47 AM
soxfan44 is not a Sox fan.

Obvious Twins troll from the very start...and yeah, Ozzie Guillen could manage the "sox" off of your boy Gardenhire...and tell him to kiss the ring that he will never have in the process...

As for the topic at hand...I wouldn't be opposed to dealing either...both are probably on the down-side of their respective careers, and both could probably fetch a half-way decent return. With that being said, as long as the Sox are at the top of the division, they will not be moved till the off-season at the earliest...

MISoxfan
05-01-2008, 05:16 AM
How about trading Konerko and playing Owens plus whoever they get for Konerko plus using the money they save by not having to pay Konerko the next 3 years?
Did you think this through?

I see, we're putting 10 men on the field. This has promise.

Grzegorz
05-01-2008, 05:25 AM
All of this after one full month... Boy, I can't wait to see the next five months unfold.

SoxGirl4Life
05-01-2008, 06:54 AM
All of this after one full month... Boy, I can't wait to see the next five months unfold.

All the people on here complaining--I'm sure they will be the first ones to sing praises if the Sox win the next four games.

Craig Grebeck
05-01-2008, 08:42 AM
Who are these prospects? Sisco?
Don't come on here spewing bull**** if you don't know anything about the oranization.

Jon Link, Michael Dubee, and yes, Andrew Sisco.

voodoochile
05-01-2008, 10:31 AM
Thanks. I'm also incredibly angry at this organIzation for falling so far so quickly from 2005.

Translation:

I love reading the Windsock and I think that capital I thing that Rosenbloom used to use for the Blackhawks makes me look cool...

spiffie
05-01-2008, 10:39 AM
Regarding GIDP, I wonder if certain posters have ever looked at who actually leads the leagues in this category the last few years.

This year David Ortiz leads in the AL. Last year Albert Pujols led in the NL in a tie with Carlos Lee. The year before Miguel Tejada led the AL.

Yes, Konerko is a slow man, but GIDP is much more a function of those around you. In 2003 he led the AL in that category. In front of him were Thomas, Ordonez, and Lee. They combined to be on base a ton, and were all slow as hell. In 2005, when he only hit into 10 DP's, he had Carl Everett batting in front of him more often than not, with his whopping .311 OBP. Then shockingly, when Jim Thome, a guy with a 400 OBP and no speed got in the lineup, Konerko started hitting into more DP's! Shocking! Totally his fault I'm sure! Damn softball player!

TomBradley72
05-01-2008, 10:42 AM
I am a Sox fan and a realist. I've read these message boards before without being a member. There are a lot of very complacent fans and a lot of Kool Aid drinkers on the site. Wait a month until the Sox are in 4th place and you'll start to agree with me.

I hope I'm wrong, but with this SOFTBALL team thats where they're headed.

We score runs as well as any team in the AL.
We pitch as well as any team in the AL.
We catch the ball as well as any team in the AL.
We don't run very well...but it's the AL...so that can be overcome.

Nellie_Fox
05-01-2008, 11:10 AM
All the people on here complaining--I'm sure they will be the first ones to sing praises if the Sox win the next four games. No, some of them are always able to find something to bitch about.

kittle42
05-01-2008, 11:23 AM
I'm new here, so can you tell which are considered to be the brightest on here? You and who else?

Definitely not me, but certainly people who don't keep harping on a lineup change which would require a trade that isn't going to happen for months, if at all.


"If you can't say something nice..." Is that really what they want on here?

No. I am with you on this one.

kittle42
05-01-2008, 11:25 AM
All the people on here complaining--I'm sure they will be the first ones to sing praises if the Sox win the next four games.

Goddamnit - of COURSE we will. That shouldn't stop us from looking at the flaws that have been apparent in the last 3 games or even two weeks. Why does everything either have to be all roses or complete thunderstorms around here. Hyperbole abounds! There is a way to root mercilessly for your team, enjoy their successes, and still look for ways to make them better, especially when they have obvious issues, as this team does.

soxfan44
05-01-2008, 12:00 PM
You know something? Members who make this many negative posts in a very short time (which is also the time span for the poster being a member) don't last long. If you can't say anything nice about the Sox, don't say anything at all. If you want your time at WSI to be short, that's fine by me.

I'm only trying to get some real discussion going about the fact that this team needs to start over, instead of making tweaks. I don't like feeling this negative in April either, but as I said, I'm a realist.

I'm just as tired of seeing "It's only a month into the season - lighten up!" as you are of reading my negative posts.

I haven't been this angry about a team falling so far so fast since the '85 Bears, and now I couldn't care less about the Bears. I don't want that to happen with the Sox, but with Kenny in charge, they're destined to finish 3rd or 4th in this division for years to come. For instance, I heard this morning they're bringing up a pitcher and not Jerry Owens for the trip to Toronto!?!?

My hope for this year, as I've said before, is that if they're not going to win the division (which I don't think they can with this lineup), that they're waaaay out of it by the trade deadline. You would hope that this will force Kenny into rebuilding, rather than just tweaking.

kittle42
05-01-2008, 12:05 PM
My hope for this year, as I've said before, is that if they're not going to win the division (which I don't think they can with this lineup), that they're waaaay out of it by the trade deadline. You would hope that this will force Kenny into rebuilding, rather than just tweaking.

Agreed. I was pretty incensed that they stood almost pat last year.

soxfan44
05-01-2008, 12:09 PM
Agreed. I was pretty incensed that they stood almost pat last year.


Amen.

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 09:54 PM
Don't come on here spewing bull**** if you don't know anything about the oranization.

Jon Link, Michael Dubee, and yes, Andrew Sisco.
WOW...ya' got me there...ROFL

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 09:56 PM
We score runs as well as any team in the AL.
We pitch as well as any team in the AL.
We catch the ball as well as any team in the AL.
We don't run very well...but it's the AL...so that can be overcome.
...We seldom hit when it counts.

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 09:59 PM
Definitely not me, but certainly people who don't keep harping on a lineup change which would require a trade that isn't going to happen for months, if at all.



No. I am with you on this one.
I'm going to quit harping on a deal since it's not likely one is going to be made. However, I'd consider dealing Quentin since his stock will never be higher...
I guess I'll have to plod through this dull, live-for-the-3-run-homer type of team while they have a 75-steals' guy and another that would have hit 35-40 homers in AAA.

spiffie
05-01-2008, 10:00 PM
...We seldom hit when it counts.
If it weren't for that pesky part where we actually lead the AL in OPS with RISP, I would totally agree with you, except for that whole part where you're not correct making it hard to go with you on this point.

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 10:01 PM
I'm only trying to get some real discussion going about the fact that this team needs to start over, instead of making tweaks. I don't like feeling this negative in April either, but as I said, I'm a realist.

I'm just as tired of seeing "It's only a month into the season - lighten up!" as you are of reading my negative posts.

I haven't been this angry about a team falling so far so fast since the '85 Bears, and now I couldn't care less about the Bears. I don't want that to happen with the Sox, but with Kenny in charge, they're destined to finish 3rd or 4th in this division for years to come. For instance, I heard this morning they're bringing up a pitcher and not Jerry Owens for the trip to Toronto!?!?

My hope for this year, as I've said before, is that if they're not going to win the division (which I don't think they can with this lineup), that they're waaaay out of it by the trade deadline. You would hope that this will force Kenny into rebuilding, rather than just tweaking.
I also don't believe in throw-away seasons...
If you can't win it, then deal and reload for the next season...
The Thomas-35 quote you use here was embarrassingly bad and pompous.

voodoochile
05-01-2008, 10:02 PM
...We seldom hit when it counts.

1st in the AL with runners in scoring position

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=runs&split=39&group=7&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

1st in the AL in OPS during close and late situations:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=OPS&split=60&group=7&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

13th with runners in scoring position and 2 outs:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=OPS&split=185&group=7&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

I include the last one just for fairness. I don't think the stats support you at all.

sox1970
05-01-2008, 10:02 PM
I'm going to quit harping on a deal since it's not likely one is going to be made. However, I'd consider dealing Quentin since his stock will never be higher...
I guess I'll have to plod through this dull, live-for-the-3-run-homer type of team while they have a 75-steals' guy and another that would have hit 35-40 homers in AAA.

:thud:

spiffie
05-01-2008, 10:02 PM
I'm going to quit harping on a deal since it's not likely one is going to be made. However, I'd consider dealing Quentin since his stock will never be higher...
I guess I'll have to plod through this dull, live-for-the-3-run-homer type of team while they have a 75-steals' guy and another that would have hit 35-40 homers in AAA.
So...you're unhappy with the fact this team is slow and waits for the HR, and your solution involves bringing up a slow guy who waits for the HR? You are indeed a riddle wrapped inside a mystery inside a burrito made of bad baseball ideas.

NADA SURF
05-01-2008, 10:03 PM
Agreed. I was pretty incensed that they stood almost pat last year.
Give KW credit...
He made a nice comeback in obtaining Swisher, Cabrera, Linebrink, Dotel and Quentin...He might have gained 25 wins in one season with those deals...
Now, if he'd have just let Dye go....

voodoochile
05-01-2008, 10:06 PM
I'm going to quit harping on a deal since it's not likely one is going to be made. However, I'd consider dealing Quentin since his stock will never be higher...
I guess I'll have to plod through this dull, live-for-the-3-run-homer type of team while they have a 75-steals' guy and another that would have hit 35-40 homers in AAA.

You'd trade a guy who is Sox property for the next 4 years at no more than arbitration prices because he had a good April in his first stint with the team?

This statement alone shows how little you understand this game.

Craig Grebeck
05-01-2008, 10:50 PM
Give KW credit...
He made a nice comeback in obtaining Swisher, Cabrera, Linebrink, Dotel and Quentin...He might have gained 25 wins in one season with those deals...
Now, if he'd have just let Dye go....
114 OPS+

What was KW thinking?

kittle42
05-01-2008, 10:50 PM
You'd trade a guy who is Sox property for the next 4 years at no more than arbitration prices because he had a good April in his first stint with the team?

This statement alone shows how little you understand this game.

Well, my streak of agreeing with Nada stopped at 1. What about Quentin makes you think that "his stock will never be higher?" He's young and he's doing exactly what Williams thought he could do. Fotr a guy advocating that this team dump one of its old timers, this one is really a head-scratcher.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 01:56 AM
You'd trade a guy who is Sox property for the next 4 years at no more than arbitration prices because he had a good April in his first stint with the team?

This statement alone shows how little you understand this game.
I wouldn't deal Quentin but I sit back and laugh at all you guys on here that want him in the Hall.
He's had one good month...
You know the game pretty well?
Ever played?
Coached?
Covered the sport?
I have the feeling that Quentin is going to finish with a .235 average and out of the lineup within a month or so.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 01:59 AM
114 OPS+

What was KW thinking?
Dye's had one OK month this year.
KW signed him for two more years.
Those are gonna be two more long years.
Nice year he had last year, too. Along with his whining.
You're too easy to please.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 02:04 AM
Well, my streak of agreeing with Nada stopped at 1. What about Quentin makes you think that "his stock will never be higher?" He's young and he's doing exactly what Williams thought he could do. Fotr a guy advocating that this team dump one of its old timers, this one is really a head-scratcher.

I don't think they can deal Konerko and I'm not sure there would be much of a market for Dye after how bad he was last year and how much they gave him...
If Quentin goes on to hit near .300 with about 30 HRs and near 100 RBI, I'll come right back on here and say: "I was wrong."
But I saw this kid in Arizona and he was atrocious.
I have the feeling he'll finish in the .230s and out of the lineup within a few weeks and I really hope I'm wrong.
Nyls Nyman got everyone excited many years ago when he hit .429 over a month or so, too...
It's pretty clear from my posts what I'm after: Speed at the top (Owens) and and young 40-homer guy (Fields) in the lineup.
This offense sucked last year and it's gonna suck this year too as it is.
It's already blown several games by choking in the clutch.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 02:13 AM
1st in the AL with runners in scoring position

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=runs&split=39&group=7&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

1st in the AL in OPS during close and late situations:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=OPS&split=60&group=7&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

13th with runners in scoring position and 2 outs:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=OPS&split=185&group=7&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

I include the last one just for fairness. I don't think the stats support you at all.
They just blew two or three in a row cuz they can't hit in the clutch...
First in the league with runners in scoring position might have come from 3-4 early victories...
Stat geeks are fun to deal with nowadays...
Your stats don't tell anything and early in the season are based on a handful of games.
But keep 'em coming since you don't seem to understand the game any other way..
Here's a key stat: Wins (and there should have been quite a bit more).
Is the pitching blowing these games?
By the way, I think I was just in your restaurant a few months ago.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 02:21 AM
So...you're unhappy with the fact this team is slow and waits for the HR, and your solution involves bringing up a slow guy who waits for the HR? You are indeed a riddle wrapped inside a mystery inside a burrito made of bad baseball ideas.
I kinda feel that Fields could be that type of home run hitter, but the difference is he's a better hitter than anyone we have right now and is the best in the entire organization as you soon will see and be giving me kudos down the road...
The real shame is, KW didn't dump a huge contract like Konerko's to make room for this kid and save the $12 million for other purposes, like perhaps signing Crede who is heading the opposite of Konerko--up...
Fields is a good problem to have, though, and certainly has a lot of trade value.
I am, however, not looking forward to him being the Sox' 3B if Crede leaves.

Frater Perdurabo
05-02-2008, 06:31 AM
I kinda feel that Fields could be that type of home run hitter, but the difference is he's a better hitter than anyone we have right now and is the best in the entire organization as you soon will see and be giving me kudos down the road...
The real shame is, KW didn't dump a huge contract like Konerko's to make room for this kid and save the $12 million for other purposes, like perhaps signing Crede who is heading the opposite of Konerko--up...
Fields is a good problem to have, though, and certainly has a lot of trade value.
I am, however, not looking forward to him being the Sox' 3B if Crede leaves.

See, now this is a fair argument to make. I'd be OK with trading Paulie to open up 1B for Fields, and using the savings to lock up Crede. I too have concerns about Fields at 3B.

Craig Grebeck
05-02-2008, 07:02 AM
Trading Konerko to make room for Crede on the payroll is hilarious.

Craig Grebeck
05-02-2008, 07:21 AM
I wouldn't deal Quentin but I sit back and laugh at all you guys on here that want him in the Hall.
He's had one good month...
You know the game pretty well?
Ever played?
Coached?
Covered the sport?
I have the feeling that Quentin is going to finish with a .235 average and out of the lineup within a month or so.
You have a "feeling"?

Is this based on his stellar minor league career or his great showing in MLB*?

*excluding 2007, when he played with half a shoulder

BridgePortNative
05-02-2008, 07:29 AM
geez, this place has gotten pretty tense lately. same **** over and over again almost seems like old vs. new in so many threads relating to baseball.

TomBradley72
05-02-2008, 07:59 AM
I wouldn't deal Quentin but I sit back and laugh at all you guys on here that want him in the Hall.
He's had one good month...
You know the game pretty well?
Ever played?
Coached?
Covered the sport?
I have the feeling that Quentin is going to finish with a .235 average and out of the lineup within a month or so.

Yes, yes and yes.

Quentin is the real deal.

BadBobbyJenks
05-02-2008, 08:10 AM
I cant wait until June and Paulie is hitting 270 and well on his way to 35 homers. I can go back and look at threads like this and laugh.


Then the people calling for his head and making polls can all exclaim, "I'M GLAD I WAS WRONG! GO SOX!"

hi im skot
05-02-2008, 09:20 AM
I think we all need to start making a conscious effort to give every single one of our posts a title...

voodoochile
05-02-2008, 09:27 AM
Nope, never played past little league. Don't coach or cover it other than the Sox. Wrote a couple of articles for WSI, but that's just for ****s and giggles. Now go ahead, lay your otherworldly credentials on me. I see you claim to be a sportswriter. Love to hear who that is for.

Unlike some people, I don't pretend to know it all. I don't think I can figure out a season based on this year's first month. I don't think I can figure out a career based on one ST of watching a hitter, though I am stunned by the claim that Quentin looked bad in ST. Every time I've seen him swing the bat he looks great and now that he's driving the ball to RCF, he'll be even more productive.

In addition the claims about Dye are simply silly. He's had 5 great halves out of 6 possible since playing with the Sox. The 6th he was clearly injured and received treatment for. He had a good start to the season, so I don't know what crystal ball you are using to predict his imminent demise, but it sounds like a whole lot of gas passing if you ask me...

Frater Perdurabo
05-02-2008, 09:47 AM
Trading Konerko to make room for Crede on the payroll is hilarious.

Why?

spiffie
05-02-2008, 10:09 AM
See, now this is a fair argument to make. I'd be OK with trading Paulie to open up 1B for Fields, and using the savings to lock up Crede. I too have concerns about Fields at 3B.
Frater...he's 10 and 5. Let the dream die. I know it was a sad day at Perdurabo Manor when Paulie got to that point, but you need to let the healing begin.

Frater Perdurabo
05-02-2008, 10:27 AM
Frater...he's 10 and 5. Let the dream die. I know it was a sad day at Perdurabo Manor when Paulie got to that point, but you need to let the healing begin.

Perdurabo Manor? :rolling:

Our homemade "Surf and Turf" is canned tuna and some beef-flavored Ramen noodles.
:tongue:

I know he's got 10-5 rights. I know he's not going anywhere. But as a hypothetical in which 10-5 rights were not a consideration, I would trade Paulie for fair value to make room for Fields at first base (after giving Fields time to learn the position in the minors).

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 02:54 PM
Yes, yes and yes.

Quentin is the real deal.
I think it would be BEAUTIFUL if he turns out to be the real thing and I'll gladly eat crow...
I can guarantee you, if EVERYONE on here was running him down and saying he sucked prior, I'd be on the other side saying he deserves a shot...
But, so many fanatics on here have him at Cooperstown already so I'm in a balancing-out mode.

I keep seeing this base 2008 lineup in my head...
Owens LF
Swisher CF
Fields 1B
Thome DH
Quentin LF
Crede 3B
AJ C
Cabrera SS
Ramirez 2B (until Richar gets healthy)

Not to mention, the $21 million per year over the next two years that KW could have saved in Dye's and Konerko's contracts that could have gone to either improve this lineup, the pitching staff or the minor leagues...
It also doesn't include any players they would have received for Dye and Konerko that could have been used to improve this lineup, the pitching staff or the minor leagues.

They likely could have gotten a big-time 2b (Kendrick, Roberts, Matsui among others) and really boosted the farm system..Oh, and signed Crede.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 03:14 PM
Nope, never played past little league. Don't coach or cover it other than the Sox. Wrote a couple of articles for WSI, but that's just for ****s and giggles. Now go ahead, lay your otherworldly credentials on me. I see you claim to be a sportswriter. Love to hear who that is for.

Unlike some people, I don't pretend to know it all. I don't think I can figure out a season based on this year's first month. I don't think I can figure out a career based on one ST of watching a hitter, though I am stunned by the claim that Quentin looked bad in ST. Every time I've seen him swing the bat he looks great and now that he's driving the ball to RCF, he'll be even more productive.

In addition the claims about Dye are simply silly. He's had 5 great halves out of 6 possible since playing with the Sox. The 6th he was clearly injured and received treatment for. He had a good start to the season, so I don't know what crystal ball you are using to predict his imminent demise, but it sounds like a whole lot of gas passing if you ask me...
I can always tell the guys that never played. They always fall back on stats that don't matter...
IMO, you DO come off as though you know everything.
Dye was a great player for the Sox since he came over and one main reason we won it all and I won't forget that about him...
I just think it would have been better for him to finish his career with another organization rather than have him re-up with the Sox for 3 years...
Those OPS stats mean nothing to me.
Go with timely hits and keep them in your own head.
I'll email you who I write for.

Frater Perdurabo
05-02-2008, 03:18 PM
I keep seeing this base 2008 lineup in my head...
Owens LF
Swisher CF
Fields 1B
Thome DH
Quentin LF
Crede 3B
AJ C
Cabrera SS
Ramirez 2B (until Richar gets healthy)

You must be supremely confident in the defensive prowess of Ramirez/Richar, Swisher and Fields to leave RF open and have two LFs! :tongue:

voodoochile
05-02-2008, 03:21 PM
I can always tell the guys that never played. They always fall back on stats that don't matter...
IMO, you DO come off as though you know everything.
Dye was a great player for the Sox since he came over and one main reason we won it all and I won't forget that about him...
I just think it would have been better for him to finish his career with another organization rather than have him re-up with the Sox for 3 years...
Those OPS stats mean nothing to me.
Go with timely hits and keep them in your own head.
I'll email you who I write for.

I admit I take a sterner viewpoint by people who announce themselves to the board with "quality of the posters just went up" and who make all knowing predictions and seem to bounce around a lot (which is it, trade Quentin now or lock him in in the 6th spot and try to dump Dye and Konerko?) Seems odd to want to put a guy who has already peaked and will likely hit .235 this season in the 6th spot, while dumping two stud middle order hitters and expect the Sox to do well.

I hate playing for next year and don't see anything that KW did that says the Sox aren't both stronger this year and next.

Of course I'm an optimist. I think the Sox can contend this year. I've been saying it since the Swisher trade, but I can see how some feel differently, I just don't care for the constant "we're doomed" outlook that so many adopt.

I eagerly await this e-mail...

FedEx227
05-02-2008, 03:23 PM
I can always tell the guys that never played. They always fall back on stats that don't matter...
IMO, you DO come off as though you know everything.
Dye was a great player for the Sox since he came over and one main reason we won it all and I won't forget that about him...
I just think it would have been better for him to finish his career with another organization rather than have him re-up with the Sox for 3 years...
Those OPS stats mean nothing to me.
Go with timely hits and keep them in your own head.
I'll email you who I write for.

The best way to keep track of stuff is to trust your head. Never write anything down, never take pictures, never look at numbers... nope it's all in your head.

Nobodies mind has even been bias or ever misinterpreted something that happened.

asindc
05-02-2008, 03:47 PM
Konerko, Dye, Fields, Anderson, and Danks to the Giants for Rowand and Lincecum.

I always love hearing or reading about these kind of trade proposals from fans. Ask yourself: If you were rooting for the team that has Roward and Lincecum, would you want to see that team trade for the players you named?

spiffie
05-02-2008, 04:18 PM
I always love hearing or reading about these kind of trade proposals from fans. Ask yourself: If you were rooting for the team that has Roward and Lincecum, would you want to see that team trade for the players you named?
Apparently the teal was not implied well enough in that one.

asindc
05-02-2008, 04:29 PM
Apparently the teal was not implied well enough in that one.

My apologies to you, sir. Teal understood now.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 09:23 PM
You must be supremely confident in the defensive prowess of Ramirez/Richar, Swisher and Fields to leave RF open and have two LFs! :tongue:Quentin would go to right until he fades....then you could put Anderson in CF and Swisher in right...Then again, you would have gotten players for Konerko and Dye, as well...
this may be a bit hard for some of you to comprehend, but that lineup I posted was just a base, minimum lineup.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 09:27 PM
I admit I take a sterner viewpoint by people who announce themselves to the board with "quality of the posters just went up" and who make all knowing predictions and seem to bounce around a lot (which is it, trade Quentin now or lock him in in the 6th spot and try to dump Dye and Konerko?) Seems odd to want to put a guy who has already peaked and will likely hit .235 this season in the 6th spot, while dumping two stud middle order hitters and expect the Sox to do well.

I hate playing for next year and don't see anything that KW did that says the Sox aren't both stronger this year and next.

Of course I'm an optimist. I think the Sox can contend this year. I've been saying it since the Swisher trade, but I can see how some feel differently, I just don't care for the constant "we're doomed" outlook that so many adopt.

I eagerly await this e-mail...
The "quality of poster" comment was tongue-in-cheek (but you know as well as I do that it is for real)...
I wouldn't pull Quentin out yet and I am hoping he does turn out to be a .300 hitter and all that..I've been very consistent...
I said before that KW did a good job over this past offseason but came on here adding that Konerko and Dye could have been dealt to make it even better since they are coming way down...
The reason I backed up KW was an earlier comment by a few guys who said it would be fine to finish with 82-85 wins, which I don't think YOu are hoping for, either....
I've been consistent and you could be taking a few quotes out of context...

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 09:33 PM
The best way to keep track of stuff is to trust your head. Never write anything down, never take pictures, never look at numbers... nope it's all in your head.

Nobodies mind has even been bias or ever misinterpreted something that happened.
Once you know the rules, baseball is really a pretty easy game to understand...
You try to outscore the opposition...
Your pitcher and defense tries to limit the opposition from hitting and scoring with runners on base...
Your hitters try to come up with what is known as TIMELY HITS so that they can produce runs when they are out there...
Guys that never played come up with all sorts of other stuff that doesn't matter and they're kinda fun to watch (like Grebeck)...
Here are the stats that matter:
Pitchers :ERA...
Hitters: RBI and on-base percentage.
And of course, TIMELY HITS.
Right now, the Nada Timely Hit meter has the Sox hitting about .095 this year.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 09:34 PM
I always love hearing or reading about these kind of trade proposals from fans. Ask yourself: If you were rooting for the team that has Roward and Lincecum, would you want to see that team trade for the players you named?If I were the Sox, I wouldn't make that deal...If I were the Giants, I would.

Craig Grebeck
05-02-2008, 10:10 PM
Of course you would, you probably have no idea who Tim Lincecum is.

NADA SURF
05-02-2008, 10:15 PM
Of course you would, you probably have no idea who Tim Lincecum is.
Who's making a person attack now?
I even talked to him recently. He's quite good.
I'll take Danks.

Craig Grebeck
05-02-2008, 10:20 PM
Who's making a person attack now?
I even talked to him recently. He's quite good.
I'll take Danks.
Please e-mail me what paper you write for, if you don't mind. I'm curious.

Danks? Why?

Nellie_Fox
05-03-2008, 12:31 AM
Here are the stats that matter:
Pitchers :ERA...Does that go for relief pitchers too? ERA gets badly skewed by one bad outing for guys who don't throw a lot of innings.

TornLabrum
05-03-2008, 07:52 AM
Who's making a person attack now?
I even talked to him recently. He's quite good.
I'll take Danks.

I personally don't care who is making personal attacks. It's going to stop. Now.

kittle42
05-03-2008, 11:50 AM
Quentin would go to right until he fades....then you could put Anderson in CF and Swisher in right...Then again, you would have gotten players for Konerko and Dye, as well...
this may be a bit hard for some of you to comprehend, but that lineup I posted was just a base, minimum lineup.

Jesus Christ - and I thought I was condescending.

fquaye149
05-03-2008, 12:04 PM
Jesus Christ - and I thought I was condescending.

don't worry--you still are!

jabrch
05-03-2008, 12:24 PM
Either Konerko Or Thome Have To Go....Maybe Both?

Actually, neither needs to go. Both need to hit better.

SoxandtheCityTee
05-03-2008, 01:03 PM
Jesus Christ - and I thought I was condescending.

You are :wink: (oops, fquaye beat me to it ) but the newbie has you beat. He's out of the gate quickly. We'll see if it's cheap speed.

TornLabrum
05-03-2008, 01:41 PM
Knock it off!

SoxandtheCityTee
05-03-2008, 01:56 PM
Whoops, sorry. I meant that as a merry observation, not a personal attack.

NADA SURF
05-03-2008, 02:35 PM
Does that go for relief pitchers too? ERA gets badly skewed by one bad outing for guys who don't throw a lot of innings.

I'm talking over the long haul...I would say ERA is a pretty good indication of a pitcher and a staff overall.

jabrch
05-03-2008, 02:38 PM
I'm talking over the long haul...I would say ERA is a pretty good indication of a pitcher and a staff overall.

It is not a good measure of a relief pitcher in isolation. It is a decent measure of a team, but it needs to be compared to something. Just a raw ERA number alone leaves out a lot of facts.

There is no single number that really is good to measure a player or a team short of wins - but wins are a result and tell you nothing about the inputs. That's the problem - metrics come either in the form of input metris or result metrics, or both. Looking at just one doesn't tell you the story.

NADA SURF
05-03-2008, 02:43 PM
Please e-mail me what paper you write for, if you don't mind. I'm curious.

Danks? Why?
Email sent.

Daver
05-03-2008, 02:44 PM
I'm talking over the long haul...I would say ERA is a pretty good indication of a pitcher and a staff overall.

No it isn't.

Lukin13
05-03-2008, 05:36 PM
I somewhat agree with QCIA and the original poster...

Thome > Konerko > Dye > AJ > Crede is not going to get it done consistently this year. They will run hot for periods of time but there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians... all in a row.

I just don't think there is much to do about it until 2009.

The only thing KW/Ozzie can do in '08 is stop starting Thome against lefties. He will still get one big at bat later in the game that he actually can make a positve impact with.

NADA SURF
05-03-2008, 11:30 PM
No it isn't.
Yes it is.

kittle42
05-04-2008, 06:05 PM
don't worry--you still are!

Good. You all richly deserve it. :cool:

fquaye149
05-04-2008, 06:45 PM
Good. You all richly deserve it. :cool:

:o:





:(: