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View Full Version : *Official* "Let's wake up the bats" 4/29/2008 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
04-29-2008, 10:43 PM
We have to start hitting if we want to continue to be the first place Chicago White Sox.

Navarro's Talent
04-29-2008, 10:44 PM
Rough stuff to watch.

At least, the pitching was great again. Floyd did not crumble after some pressure, and that's what I want to see.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2008, 10:44 PM
Only 5 men left on base tonight so we got that going for us...

Navarro's Talent
04-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Ugh, Boof was the player of the game. Ugh.

JB98
04-29-2008, 10:45 PM
We can't hit.

These guys are all veterans, and they should be better than this.

hawkjt
04-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Quick turnaround means we get to leave minny by 3 oclock ...and get this one back or be miserable for another 26 hours....
We are officially in a funk.

PeoriaSoxFan
04-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Thank God for WCIU and sparing me from watching this. Please wake this team up! We are still in good shape, just wake up. I hate Minnesota by the way.

kaufsox
04-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Okay, deep breaths. God, I hate the Twins.

Jurr
04-29-2008, 10:46 PM
Get used to it until they gut the middle of the lineup.
Konerko or Thome must go.

veeter
04-29-2008, 10:46 PM
The best is yet to come for this team. Swisher and Cabrera will get it together, and then it will be fun.

It's Dankerific
04-29-2008, 10:46 PM
NO BA, NO Winning
KNOW BA, KNOW Winning

=)

ND_Sox_Fan
04-29-2008, 10:46 PM
We can't hit.

These guys are all veterans, and they should be better than this.

Sounds exactly like 2007 ...

itsnotrequired
04-29-2008, 10:47 PM
Konerko or Thome must go.

Go where?

whitesoxfan
04-29-2008, 10:47 PM
I can't wait to read all the Greg Walker threads!

Madscout
04-29-2008, 10:48 PM
At least the twins killed us with a couple of good hits, and not their usual bloop duck fart nonsense. That infield takes a **** load away from our hitters, and all the bounces go their way there. I hate that field and I hate the twins.

RockJock07
04-29-2008, 10:48 PM
Yeah, these bats need to wake up, I know Boof was on his game tonight but come on. The pitching was great except for that one pitch to Kubal. This line-up is just struggling bad right now, JD looked bad and need I say anything about Uribe, first pitch swinging in his last AB.

oeo
04-29-2008, 10:49 PM
Go where?

To the hotel tonight? :dunno:

itsnotrequired
04-29-2008, 10:50 PM
To the hotel tonight? :dunno:

Maybe back to his home planet.

Elephant
04-29-2008, 10:51 PM
I guess Boof just wanted it more.

TheOldRoman
04-29-2008, 10:51 PM
It's ok. Boof is one of the better pitchers of his era. The 27 Yankees might have been able to scratch out 2 runs off him tonight. But it's all good. If we score 11 runs tomorrow, we will average 5 runs per over the last 3 games. That is an explosive offense.

Viva Medias B's
04-29-2008, 10:52 PM
Yeah, these bats need to wake up, I know Boof was on his game tonight but come on. The pitching was great except for that one pitch to Kubal. This line-up is just struggling bad right now, JD looked bad and need I say anything about Uribe, first pitch swinging in his last AB.

Obviously, he not 100% yet.

BadBobbyJenks
04-29-2008, 10:53 PM
It's ok. Boof is one of the better pitchers of his era. The 27 Yankees might have been able to scratch out 2 runs off him tonight. But it's all good. If we score 11 runs tomorrow, we will average 5 runs per over the last 3 games. That is an explosive offense.

Lol
In no way is Boof not a bad pitcher we just have to tip our cap to him.

PicktoCLick72
04-29-2008, 10:53 PM
The curse of WCIU continues.

cws05champ
04-29-2008, 11:00 PM
Yeah, these bats need to wake up, I know Boof was on his game tonight but come on. The pitching was great except for that one pitch to Kubal. This line-up is just struggling bad right now, JD looked bad and need I say anything about Uribe, first pitch swinging in his last AB.
Floyd really didn't have his best stuff tonight either. He could not locate his hard curve much at all. Mice effort by Floyd...the only bright spot. The offense was like watching 2007 again. No fire, no intensity...it was brutal. I hope Swish can start to get on base a bit more. Last 13 games .166 avg, .285 OBP.

ZombieRob
04-29-2008, 11:04 PM
Get used to it until they gut the middle of the lineup.
Konerko or Thome must go.
I agree. This approach hasn't worked in over 2 seasons and hasn't shown any signs that it will. On the other hand it's good to see the Sox seem to have a stable pitchings staff thus far.

Dan Mega
04-29-2008, 11:05 PM
It's ok. Boof is one of the better pitchers of his era. The 27 Yankees might have been able to scratch out 2 runs off him tonight. But it's all good. If we score 11 runs tomorrow, we will average 5 runs per over the last 3 games. That is an explosive offense.

Plus, it shows that Greg Walker knows what he is doing!

JB98
04-29-2008, 11:09 PM
Get used to it until they gut the middle of the lineup.
Konerko or Thome must go.

Why is Dye getting a free pass from you? If you really want to break up the middle of the lineup, JD is the best trade bait of the group.

And I think it's too damn early to start thinking about trades. We're only 25 games in.

oeo
04-29-2008, 11:11 PM
Why is Dye getting a free pass from you? If you really want to break up the middle of the lineup, JD is the best trade bait of the group.

I don't think any of them should go. That said, Dye has been pretty good this year. He's coming off a few games hurt, so I can see a rough day from Dye today. And actually, if you look, Dye has been great for us the last two years with the exception of a bad first half last year.

OTOH, Paulie for the most part has been terrible this year, and Thome has been on and off. Time for the both of them to start giving us some consistent production.

Madvora
04-29-2008, 11:14 PM
I don't think any of them should go. That said, Dye has been pretty good this year. He's coming off a few games hurt, so I can see a rough day from Dye today. Paulie, for the most part has been terrible this year, and Thome has been on and off. Time for the both of them to start giving us some consistent production.
No kidding. Konerko's grand slam may be all that he did this year.
It's terrible that we have so many bad hitters that some actually get lost in the crowd. While we're busy complaining about somebody, there's another guy just as bad who's not getting noticed.
That's a problem. They have the talent to hit and they just aren't doing it.

This appears to be the slowest moving postgame thread ever. I think yesterday's game just killed us.

TomBradley72
04-29-2008, 11:19 PM
This is a hell of a hitting slump. If not for BA's hit saturday night and the Orioles giving away runs on Sunday...we could be looking at a 4 game losing streak, 6 of our last 7.

thomas35forever
04-29-2008, 11:20 PM
This game shouldn't count as part of our hitting slump. We were playing in Minnesota. Nothing goes right for us there year after year, even '05.

RockJock07
04-29-2008, 11:22 PM
The real problem of late is the fact that Swis and OC aren't getting on base. Then if someone does, it's a sure fire dp by either Konerko or Thome. I'll take pitching performance like we got tonight but someone other then AJ or TCQ need to step up and be consistant.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2008, 11:25 PM
Bonser came in at 1-4... someone was getting to him.

I'm at a loss to explain this. Since July 2006 this team can't hit and the strange thing is, it's not the exact same team. Players have been changed, yet lately no matter who the Sox get, they drop right into a slump.

I'm out of speculation, I don't have an answer but this team is tough to watch when they can't hit and obviously they are so short on fundamentals they couldn't manufacture runs if they had a gun pointed at their collective heads.

I guess after a few seasons now dating back to the second half of 06 you have to at least consider the possibility that the "core" of the team has simply lost it collectively and are now on the downsides of their careers.

Lip

Madvora
04-29-2008, 11:30 PM
Bonser came in at 1-4... someone was getting to him.

I'm at a loss to explain this. Since July 2006 this team can't hit and the strange thing is, it's not the exact same team. Players have been changed, yet lately no matter who the Sox get, they drop right into a slump.

I'm out of speculation, I don't have an answer but this team is tough to watch when they can't hit and obviously they are so short on fundamentals they couldn't manufacture runs if they had a gun pointed at their collective heads.

I guess after a few seasons now dating back to the second half of 06 you have to at least consider the possibility that the "core" of the team has simply lost it collectively and are now on the downsides of their careers.

Lip
Well, I never been one of the people bringing this up or calling for his head, but based on this is seems like the only real common factor is Greg Walker.

oeo
04-29-2008, 11:36 PM
I'm at a loss to explain this. Since July 2006 this team can't hit and the strange thing is, it's not the exact same team. Players have been changed, yet lately no matter who the Sox get, they drop right into a slump.

Well, it's obvious that whatever the problem is, whether it's Walker or something else, hasn't been fixed. Something needs to change, and it needs to happen before everything spirals out of control again.

guillen4life13
04-29-2008, 11:40 PM
Well, I never been one of the people bringing this up or calling for his head, but based on this is seems like the only real common factor is Greg Walker.

This.

And even if he was the hitting coach in '05, that year the driving force for the team was the pitching (we actually had a reliable 'pen) and Pods' driving opposing pitchers crazy when he got on base.

The double plays really need to be taken care of.

I don't know if firing Walker is the answer, but it might help. Don't know who I'd bring in to replace him though. To me, Baines would seem the most likely to just slide into that role, with someone else taking over the Bench Coach position.

My $.02

Hitmen77
04-29-2008, 11:40 PM
It's all Floyd's fault!!!!! I heard from some people at WSI all off season that he was garbage and won't ever amount to anything.

Meanwhile, somebody wake me up when the Sox bats wake up. :(:

.160, .222, .225, .216, .221 - those are the batting avgs of our 9 through 4 hitters. Ugh!!! I know batting avg isn't everything...but 5 hitters in a row with season avgs this low? OUCH. The most aggravating thing is that all these guys are much better than this.

Sounds exactly like 2007 ...

Bingo! I'm so tempted to say "wait til our bats wake up", but that's what I said in 2nd half of 2006 and all of 2007.

Floyd really didn't have his best stuff tonight either. He could not locate his hard curve much at all. Mice effort by Floyd...the only bright spot. The offense was like watching 2007 again. No fire, no intensity...it was brutal. I hope Swish can start to get on base a bit more. Last 13 games .166 avg, .285 OBP.

Is that Swisher's avg or the team's avg for the last 13 games. Either way, that's awful.

oeo
04-29-2008, 11:40 PM
This game shouldn't count as part of our hitting slump. We were playing in Minnesota. Nothing goes right for us there year after year, even '05.

It's not a slump when it's been going on since July '06.

RockJock07
04-29-2008, 11:41 PM
Bonser came in at 1-4... someone was getting to him.

I'm at a loss to explain this. Since July 2006 this team can't hit and the strange thing is, it's not the exact same team. Players have been changed, yet lately no matter who the Sox get, they drop right into a slump.

I'm out of speculation, I don't have an answer but this team is tough to watch when they can't hit and obviously they are so short on fundamentals they couldn't manufacture runs if they had a gun pointed at their collective heads.

I guess after a few seasons now dating back to the second half of 06 you have to at least consider the possibility that the "core" of the team has simply lost it collectively and are now on the downsides of their careers.

Lip

You would think adding a Swisher and Cabera would help the matter. In the end, I think both of them will end up doing fairly well but I think we are kidding ourselves if we expect Swisher to flurish in the lead-off role. I wanna see him move down, I think he has a good approach at the plate but it's getting wasted because the guys behind him aren't hitting.

I really don't blame Walker because Konerko, Thome, and Dye are all proven hitters and no hitting coach can have that much of a negative impact. The fact that a Juan Uribe is inexcusable, we all know what his. Im not sure how to fix it, but i get what youre saying about the core of the team needing a kick in the ass.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2008, 11:44 PM
I just saw an interesting and rather scary quote from Ozzie on the postgame report. "Look at the averages. It's not the one that's going to be there at the end of the season. Right now, we've got a couple of guys struggling."

What's scary is that many of us remember comments along these same lines in 2007.

The Sox team batting average now is down to .242

Lip

oeo
04-29-2008, 11:47 PM
The Sox team batting average now is down to .242

That's where it has hovered since they finally got it up to that point last year.

We're all forgetting, though...as bad as that average is right now, they were around .220 for almost half the year last year. :puking:

JB98
04-29-2008, 11:47 PM
I don't think any of them should go. That said, Dye has been pretty good this year. He's coming off a few games hurt, so I can see a rough day from Dye today. And actually, if you look, Dye has been great for us the last two years with the exception of a bad first half last year.

OTOH, Paulie for the most part has been terrible this year, and Thome has been on and off. Time for the both of them to start giving us some consistent production.

I don't think any of them should go either. It's too early for that ****. The thing is, if someone wants to advocate trading one of the "Slowskys" in the middle of the lineup, JD has to be part of that group.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2008, 11:47 PM
I just saw an interesting and rather scary quote from Ozzie on the postgame report. "Look at the averages. It's not the one that's going to be there at the end of the season. Right now, we've got a couple of guys struggling."

What's scary is that many of us remember comments along these same lines in 2007.

The Sox team batting average now is down to .242

Lip
You can bitch and moan all you want about the fact that the batting average is low and cry that it is reminiscent of 2007 -- but the fact remains this team has 10000x the talent that that team had. Quentin, Swisher, and Cabrera are all major league hitters (the first two being all-star quality) and they are certainly humongous improvements over their horrid predecessors of 2007.

oeo
04-29-2008, 11:48 PM
I don't think any of them should go either. It's too early for that ****. The thing is, if someone wants to advocate trading one of the "Slowskys" in the middle of the lineup, JD has to be part of that group.

Except you missed the part about JD actually being productive...

thomas35forever
04-29-2008, 11:49 PM
Reading this thread makes me sick and brings back bad memories of last year. If these posters are right in these comments, it's going to be another long summer.:puking:

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2008, 11:50 PM
Except you missed the part about JD actually being productive...
I'll never understand the obsession with having a quicker 3-4-5 (at the expense of having good hitters like Kong, Thome, and JD).

RockJock07
04-29-2008, 11:50 PM
It's all Floyd's fault!!!!! I heard from some people at WSI all off season that he was garbage and won't ever amount to anything.

Meanwhile, somebody wake me up when the Sox bats wake up. :(:

.160, .222, .225, .216, .221 - those are the batting avgs of our 9 through 4 hitters. Ugh!!! I know batting avg isn't everything...but 5 hitters in a row with season avgs this low? OUCH. The most aggravating thing is that all these guys are much better than this.



Bingo! I'm so tempted to say "wait til our bats wake up", but that's what I said in 2nd half of 2006 and all of 2007.



Is that Swisher's avg or the team's avg for the last 13 games. Either way, that's awful.

BA isn't everything but even OBP are dropping and whats worse are the fact that the timely hits are coming through. Early in the season the OBP's were high and it would only take 1 or 2 hits a game to give a comfortable lead.

Plus I can't remember off hand when we just beat the hell out of the other team, a game where it's over by the 5th inning, I know those don't happen all the time but it would be nice to not hang on every AB like it's the end all, be all AB.

JB98
04-29-2008, 11:51 PM
Except you missed the part about JD actually being productive...

Actually, of the three, JD has produced the fewest runs. He has a significantly higher batting average, but his HRs and RBIs are significantly lower than Thome or Konerko.

Both Thome and Konerko have won us games with big hits this year. JD hasn't really had a big moment or a big game yet this season.

Thome: 6 HRs, 18 RBIs
Konerko: 5 HRs, 19 RBIs
Dye 2 HRs, 9 RBIs

btrain929
04-29-2008, 11:52 PM
Why is Dye getting a free pass from you? If you really want to break up the middle of the lineup, JD is the best trade bait of the group.

And I think it's too damn early to start thinking about trades. We're only 25 games in.

JD came in batting .300 and has a no-trade clause this year.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2008, 11:53 PM
Actually, of the three, JD has produced the fewest runs. He has a significantly higher batting average, but his HRs and RBIs are significantly lower than Thome or Konerko.

Both Thome and Konerko have won us games with big hits this year. JD hasn't really had a big moment or a big game yet this season.

Thome: 6 HRs, 18 RBIs
Konerko: 5 HRs, 19 RBIs
Dye 2 HRs, 9 RBIs
His OPS+ is 125, get off his back.

oeo
04-29-2008, 11:53 PM
BA isn't everything but even OBP are dropping and whats worse are the fact that the timely hits are coming through. Early in the season the OBP's were high and it would only take 1 or 2 hits a game to give a comfortable lead.

They were actually hitting a lot more, too. Lots of XBH.

We were getting good production from Swisher, JD, AJ, Quentin, and Crede. Now we're getting production out of Quentin. :(:

oeo
04-29-2008, 11:54 PM
Actually, of the three, JD has produced the fewest runs. He has a significantly higher batting average, but his HRs and RBIs are significantly lower than Thome or Konerko.

Both Thome and Konerko have won us games with big hits this year. JD hasn't really had a big moment or a big game yet this season.

Thome: 6 HRs, 18 RBIs
Konerko: 5 HRs, 19 RBIs
Dye 2 HRs, 9 RBIs

Yeah, it must be nice to drive guys in. Too bad Thome and Konerko don't get on for Dye to drive them in.

JB98
04-29-2008, 11:58 PM
His OPS+ is 125, get off his back.

Keeping putting words in my mouth and drawing your own conclusions.

I'm not on Dye's back. I'm defending Thome and Konerko.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2008, 11:59 PM
That's an interesting point about some saying there's more talent on this team certainly then last year and on paper I agree with it.

Which makes my original post so strange... the fact that they've changed numerous players, yet the results appear to be the same.

I haven't said good nor bad on Greg Walker but I'm starting to think maybe there's something to it.

How else do you explain productive hitters dropping into a slump that just seems to continue?

Any ideas?

Lip

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2008, 12:00 AM
Keeping putting words in my mouth and drawing your own conclusions.

I'm not on Dye's back. I'm defending Thome and Konerko.
Well, I have re-read your post and fail to see where I went wrong. I think the entire 3-4-5 are in ok shape. Didn't mean to disagree if I misunderstood your point.

Noneck
04-30-2008, 12:01 AM
Yeah, it must be nice to drive guys in. Too bad Thome and Konerko don't get on for Dye to drive them in.

And when they do get on, its tough to push those plow horses around to score.

RockJock07
04-30-2008, 12:05 AM
You can bitch and moan all you want about the fact that the batting average is low and cry that it is reminiscent of 2007 -- but the fact remains this team has 10000x the talent that that team had. Quentin, Swisher, and Cabrera are all major league hitters (the first two being all-star quality) and they are certainly humongous improvements over their horrid predecessors of 2007.

For the most of the season so far, those players you mentioned were carrying this team. Now Swis is struggling and when OC is on base, boom double play.

In addition to that, the players that had awful 2007's are still here. Konerko, Thome, Uribe should all be on notice, they cannot struggle like this.

I guess it could be the fact that they are ready for a day off after a long weekend and hell just watching them on tv made me tired. Maybe winning tomorrow and resting up in Canada will do them some good.

I hate to say that these next 3 weeks are do or die, cause that would be a little dramatic but If we struggle like this on this roadtrip and then the west coast trip we could have some real problems. I know it only takes one game or one ab but it's not like we have been facing great pitchers, we have been facing pitchers that are average at best.

JB98
04-30-2008, 12:11 AM
Well, I have re-read your post and fail to see where I went wrong. I think the entire 3-4-5 are in ok shape. Didn't mean to disagree if I misunderstood your point.

Let me spell it out.

Someone posted and said either Thome or Konerko needs to go, because they are too slow, the power approach is bad, it won't work, etc.

I responded and said that you can't single out Thome and Konerko. You'd have to throw Dye in that group too. I added that it would be wrong to consider a trade of anyone at this early stage regardless. I'm fine with the 3-4-5.

Someone else responded and said that JD has been productive, while Thome and Konerko have not. I disagree with that. JD has hit for higher average, but Thome and Konerko have actually been more productive. Each has had more game-changing extra-base hits than JD at this point in the season, as reflected in the HR and RBI totals.

Again, I don't want to change ANYTHING about the 3-4-5 at this stage of the season. I'm not on anyone's back. Let's wait and see what plays out.

chisoxfanatic
04-30-2008, 12:15 AM
The curse of WCIU continues.
C'mon, now! Sox fans don't believe in no stinkin' curses!!!

Implode the Baggie Dome, dammit!

sox1970
04-30-2008, 12:17 AM
Implode the Baggie Dome, dammit!

The Sox have 17 more games there. Can't wait for the new park to open.

RockJock07
04-30-2008, 12:28 AM
I know it's still early but the problem is that DET and CLE are playing better and if we wait and try to let them figure this out, we could be 7 or more games out, I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, there are professional proven hitters (not uribe) they need step up NOW.

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 12:33 AM
Ugh, Boof was the player of the game. Ugh.


Boof Bonser sucks against every other team he faces. The Sox have made him look like an All Star for the last two years. I didn't watch the game tonight because I knew what was coming.

This team WILL NOT be in first place at the end of the year. They have a softball team, not a baseball team. The Twins and their fans laugh at the Sox and their huge payroll, because they know the Sox are pretenders.

Nellie_Fox
04-30-2008, 12:39 AM
Boof Bonser sucks against every other team he faces. The Sox have made him look like an All Star for the last two years. I didn't watch the game tonight because I knew what was coming.

This team WILL NOT be in first place at the end of the year. They have a softball team, not a baseball team. The Twins and their fans laugh at the Sox and their huge payroll, because they know the Sox are pretenders.Nice first post. :rolleyes:

thomas35forever
04-30-2008, 12:40 AM
Boof Bonser sucks against every other team he faces. The Sox have made him look like an All Star for the last two years. I didn't watch the game tonight because I knew what was coming.

This team WILL NOT be in first place at the end of the year. They have a softball team, not a baseball team. The Twins and their fans laugh at the Sox and their huge payroll, because they know the Sox are pretenders.
What an insightful first post.:rolleyes:

LoveYourSuit
04-30-2008, 12:40 AM
Just got home from the Fox and Hound in Aurora watching the game.............. we were treated like 2nd class citizens and had to watch on the small TVs. One of the large TVs had a hockey game for cryiing out loud.


Anyway, nothing new with the game tonigt.

The offense continues to suck and the only constant is that Greg Walker sitll has a job.

I wish I could have a job somwherre where a my staff contiunes to fail miserably at what they do and still collect a pay check. That's like me runnining a Law Firm and all my attorneys lose every case. But since I am not the one sitting in the court room (swinging the bats), the public still thinks I should keep my job (even though my team of attorneys is performing below average and I am paying them a ton of money).

soxfan44
04-30-2008, 12:53 AM
I'm predicting more of the same tomorrow. Blackburn made them look foolish at the Cell.

Hall does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling behind the plate - or at the plate. I'm OK with Masset.

LoveYourSuit
04-30-2008, 12:55 AM
I'm predicting more of the same tomorrow. Blackburn made them look foolish at the Cell.

Hall does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling behind the plate - or at the plate. I'm OK with Masset.


Hall starting?

*** :angry:

There is a damn day off on Thursday .... what is wrong with Ozzie?

kittle42
04-30-2008, 01:10 AM
Nice first post. :rolleyes:

That doesn't mean he doesn't have a point.

kittle42
04-30-2008, 01:10 AM
Hall starting?

*** :angry:

There is a damn day off on Thursday .... what is wrong with Ozzie?

He's incapable of playing a normal lineup in a midweek day game.

Chicken Dinner
04-30-2008, 02:00 AM
Two things were very obvious tonight.....we can't hit worth **** and Gavin is very shaky from the stretch.

WhiteSox5187
04-30-2008, 02:20 AM
Well, here's my two cents...the problem with this team isn't 3-4-5, the problem is 1-2 and then the nine hole. If Swish and Cabrera could get on for Thome, Konerko and JD to drive them in, we wouldn't be bitching about the constant solo homeruns and stranding a runner on second because those solo shots would be two or three run shots and the double with two outs would drive in one, maybe two runs...Paulie and Thome are hitting the ball much better (Paulie just missed extra bases off of Nathan, had a nice shot up the middle that bounced off the pitcher's mound for an easy out and Thome just missed a HR), but Swish is mired in an awful slump and Cabrera is struggling too. This comes back to the fact that we don't have a real leadoff man (Swish has done well, but he's not going to be able to do that well in that spot the whole year). I wouldn't mind seeing TCQ hit higher in the order, but I still don't know who you'd have lead off. I don't think you'd want Quentin. But if we keep pitching this well, we'll be in the hunt. If we could keep pitching this well and get something vaguely ressembling an offense, we'd be able to bury the competition.

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 03:50 AM
Nice first post. :rolleyes:
The Sox still have a softball-team attack...
That kind of attack didn't work out too well in 2007...
But they'll stick with it while they're above .500 which could last two more weeks...
The Twins always laugh at the Sox and they should since they almost always whip them...
Once the Sox fall below .500 within a few weeks, they'll finally put Owens in the lead-off spot and maybe change the direction of the team...
It's a shame they're wasting all these fine pitching performances. Those performances may not last thoughout the season...
Good first post, kid! But I've got to warn ya, many on here don't like it when you put out an honest opinion that's a bit negative toward their team.

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 03:53 AM
I'll never understand the obsession with having a quicker 3-4-5 (at the expense of having good hitters like Kong, Thome, and JD).
I have an obsession with better 3-4-5 hitters. Thome can stay...I'd look to get rid of the other two.

Frater Perdurabo
04-30-2008, 07:17 AM
Many of you are finally reaching the same conclusion I have: FIRE GREG WALKER. You can call me "Nostradamus." :redneck

In all seriousness, the Sox offense has been "feast or famine" for years, except 2005, when they had brought in a few players who knew how to manufacture runs with solid fundamentals (Pods, Iguchi, Everett, etc.). Even Dye knew how to do so; he had the game-winning RBI in Game 4 of the W.S. with a nice hit right up the middle. This does not negate the fact that pitching was so good in 2005; indeed the multi-talented offense complemented the great pitching.

I seriously am worried that new players this year like Swisher and especially Quentin are going to get "ruined" by the Sox organization's one-dimensional emphasis on swinging for the fences.

Thome25
04-30-2008, 09:06 AM
IMO the White Sox have been playing some lousy baseball for a week or two now.

The hitting is too up-and-down, hot and cold from one day to the next. For the most part (over the last couple of weeks.) it is nowhere to be found.

IMO The pitching has been average to slightly above average. The managing (especially monday) has been pretty damn bad. My comment about Ozzie's managing is coming from a staunch Ozzie Guillen supporter over the years.

I still have hope for this season but, if the offense and coaching staff (Greg Walker and Ozzie Guillen I'm looking squarely at you.) don't pick it up and do a better job, then this season is gonna go down the crapper in a heartbeat.

Dan Mega
04-30-2008, 09:30 AM
Many of you are finally reaching the same conclusion I have: FIRE GREG WALKER.

Some of us have been saying this for a few years now.

turners56
04-30-2008, 10:32 AM
At least the twins killed us with a couple of good hits, and not their usual bloop duck fart nonsense. That infield takes a **** load away from our hitters, and all the bounces go their way there. I hate that field and I hate the twins.

Like the game they had against John Danks? Thank god Danks is pitching in Toronto, he would lose his mind watching the Twins put the bat out in front of the plate and tapping the ball for base hits.

turners56
04-30-2008, 10:37 AM
Many of you are finally reaching the same conclusion I have: FIRE GREG WALKER.
The problem with the Sox not being able to hit at times has been something that has haunted them since I started watching the team. And if I remember correctly, Greg Walker was not the hitting coach in 1999! It's been going on since the Jerry Manual days, the Sox get those days where they just can't seem to hit anything. Then a couple of days later, they score 10 runs and absolutely make the other team look like crap. A lot of teams with power deal with this, unfortunately, the White Sox have been one of the top power teams in the AL for the last decade. As long as this team is going to end up with 200 homers every year, we're going to see a very streaky offense. Don't act like this never happened in 2005 either, even if it didn't, Greg Walker was the hitting coach.

palehozenychicty
04-30-2008, 10:46 AM
Many of you are finally reaching the same conclusion I have: FIRE GREG WALKER. You can call me "Nostradamus." :redneck

In all seriousness, the Sox offense has been "feast or famine" for years, except 2005, when they had brought in a few players who knew how to manufacture runs with solid fundamentals (Pods, Iguchi, Everett, etc.). Even Dye knew how to do so; he had the game-winning RBI in Game 4 of the W.S. with a nice hit right up the middle. This does not negate the fact that pitching was so good in 2005; indeed the multi-dimensional offense complemented the great pitching.

I seriously am worried that new players this year like Swisher and especially Quentin are going to get "ruined" by the Sox organization's one-dimensional emphasis on swinging for the fences.


They were more versatile, but you can't tell me they were a better hitting team then. Remember the Griffey cries in June and July? That team couldn't buy a run at times.

VeeckAsInWreck
04-30-2008, 12:47 PM
The problem with the Sox not being able to hit at times has been something that has haunted them since I started watching the team. And if I remember correctly, Greg Walker was not the hitting coach in 1999! It's been going on since the Jerry Manual days, the Sox get those days where they just can't seem to hit anything. Then a couple of days later, they score 10 runs and absolutely make the other team look like crap. A lot of teams with power deal with this, unfortunately, the White Sox have been one of the top power teams in the AL for the last decade. As long as this team is going to end up with 200 homers every year, we're going to see a very streaky offense. Don't act like this never happened in 2005 either, even if it didn't, Greg Walker was the hitting coach.

Look at some of the pics in the smilies and you'll see all the different FIRE (insert current hitting coach's name here)

Over the years I've seen people call for the heads of Gary Ward, Von Joshua and so on. Like someone said before, it's not the coach that's in the batters box.

Then again it's easier to fire one coach than 9 hitters.

Frater Perdurabo
04-30-2008, 02:26 PM
The problem with the Sox not being able to hit at times has been something that has haunted them since I started watching the team. And if I remember correctly, Greg Walker was not the hitting coach in 1999! It's been going on since the Jerry Manual days, the Sox get those days where they just can't seem to hit anything. Then a couple of days later, they score 10 runs and absolutely make the other team look like crap. A lot of teams with power deal with this, unfortunately, the White Sox have been one of the top power teams in the AL for the last decade. As long as this team is going to end up with 200 homers every year, we're going to see a very streaky offense. Don't act like this never happened in 2005 either, even if it didn't, Greg Walker was the hitting coach.

They were more versatile, but you can't tell me they were a better hitting team then. Remember the Griffey cries in June and July? That team couldn't buy a run at times.

Over the years I've seen people call for the heads of Gary Ward, Von Joshua and so on. Like someone said before, it's not the coach that's in the batters box.

Then again it's easier to fire one coach than 9 hitters.

I agree that the problem goes beyond Greg Walker.

I have a theory. It starts with the fact that the Jerry Manuel and Ozzie eras have five "people" in common:

1. KW (minor league director before replacing Schueler after 2000 season)
2. JR (ownership)
3. Hawk
4. Farmer (Let's eliminate Farmer because he doesn't know hitting.)
5. Paul Konerko

We know JR is loyal to his people. Other than his exile after his disaster as GM, Hawk undoubtedly has been giving his advice to - and therefore exerting influence over - JR. PHG correctly said that Hawk's only value to we fans is that we can tell exactly what JR thinks by what Hawk says. So that means the two of them converse regularly and probably agree on a lot. Communication is a two-way street. Over the years Hawk's opinion surely has been like a slowly-dripping faucet on JR - so much so that JR was so convinced that Hawk was such an expert that he essentially fired Roland Hemond to make Hawk the GM (something Hawk actually didn't want to do, but did out of loyalty to JR's request). Hawk quit and did a two-year exile as the Yankees' TV announcer, but since 1982 he and JR maintained a close relationship.

I think Greg Walker is the hitting coach of the Sox because he's a former Sox player who JR and KW like personally, and that Hawk also likes, because Walker was the same kind of hitter Hawk was: high power, high strikeout, low average. (KW was this kind of player, too.) Hawk likes power, even if it comes at the expense of a lower average and more strikeouts (and pop-ups and ground-outs).

Daver has shown that in the Sox organization, if hit for power you get promoted. (Defense and fundamentals are not stressed.) That "smells" an awful lot like Hawk's approach.

My theory is that the Sox organization's entire approach to hitting has been slowly and likely unintentionally influenced by Hawk. I do not think Hawk or anyone else has done this "intentionally." I am not saying that Hawk is "in the catbird's seat, calling the shots. What I do think is that JR respects Hawk's opinion on baseball matters, and has solicited and often followed his advice on lots of little baseball decisions for the past 26 years. Anytime a person is with an organization for a quarter-century, he/she cannot help but leave an indelible imprint on that organization. Hawk's imprint, therefore, is an organizational preference for high-power, high-strikeout, low-average hitters. If Greg Walker gets fired - and admittedly it's not bloody likely - he almost certainly will be replaced with another hitting coach who shares the same approach.