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View Full Version : Zito to the bullpen


chisoxmike
04-28-2008, 07:19 PM
per ESPN.

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:


http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usc/galleries/zito-gallery/zito2-lg.jpg
"More time to smoke weed, dude!"

sox1970
04-28-2008, 07:28 PM
His contract takes the cake.

Mike Hampton, Darren Dreifort, and Chan Ho Park are off the hook.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 07:34 PM
I guess Kenny and Jerry aren't as crazy as everyone thinks when it comes to pitcher contracts.

DSpivack
04-28-2008, 07:41 PM
His contract takes the cake.

Mike Hampton, Darren Dreifort, and Chan Ho Park are off the hook.

Hampton is the only one whose contract is similar, and he had at least a couple good seasons with the Braves before completely breaking down.

doublem23
04-28-2008, 07:54 PM
Now he's got the chance to lose every other day.

He could go 0-30 now and I really wouldn't be surprised.

MrRoboto83
04-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Somehow I imagine that if he pitches against us next month he will look like an ace. Just a feeling anyway.

HawkTheGM
04-28-2008, 10:59 PM
This pisses me off. I could have gone 0-6 at half that price!

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2008, 11:46 PM
Wow. Just wow. I wonder if people will be more hesistant to give out big contracts now. As I recall Zito was signed before Soriano and really set the market that year. But perhaps I'm mistaken.

DSpivack
04-28-2008, 11:49 PM
Wow. Just wow. I wonder if people will be more hesistant to give out big contracts now. As I recall Zito was signed before Soriano and really set the market that year. But perhaps I'm mistaken.

I don't think Zito's contract had much of an effect on Soriano. I also don't think it'll mean teams shy away from signing pitchers to huge contracts; Santana's deal with the Mets seems fine. The difference is that the Giants were crazy to give Barry Zito that kind of money--his last couple years on the A's it was clear that he wasn't the same pitcher as his first few.

doublem23
04-28-2008, 11:57 PM
Wow. Just wow. I wonder if people will be more hesistant to give out big contracts now. As I recall Zito was signed before Soriano and really set the market that year. But perhaps I'm mistaken.

Not as long as there's 1 idiot GM out there. With 30 teams, the odds are pretty slim.

Hitmenof77
04-29-2008, 12:51 AM
I think part of the problem is that the A's wear out their starting pitchers. Mulder and Hudson both had injuries problems with their new teams. It's clear something is wrong with Zito and it maybe physical. Harden is on the DL. I bet Haren breaks down soon, though he's pitching great with the DBacks.

TDog
04-29-2008, 02:22 AM
Not as long as there's 1 idiot GM out there. With 30 teams, the odds are pretty slim.

Yesterday, when I was in the car, I heard someone who called himself a businessman on a call-in radio show after the Giants game claiming that the Giants should have signed Zito to an incentive-laden contract that would have demanded he perform to earn the big bucks. Such people miss the point.

Big multiyear contracts, especially for players who have never played for the signing organization, are most often bad deals for teams. But there is always at least one team willing to offer them to prevent other teams from offering them.

doublem23
04-29-2008, 08:25 AM
I bet Haren breaks down soon, though he's pitching great with the DBacks.

Haren's not a product of the A's system, though. He spent the first three years of his career in the Cardinals system.

WizardsofOzzie
04-29-2008, 08:52 AM
Someone posted a JR quote here the other day. Something along the lines of "we are bidding against the foolishness of 30 other teams". I know that's not right but basically he was saying your offer is only good enough until the next dolt with money comes along. Never did it ring so true in this case.

bigsoxfan420
04-29-2008, 09:01 AM
Maybe this will temper the insanity that is MLB contract negotiation.

asindc
04-29-2008, 10:01 AM
I guess Kenny and Jerry aren't as crazy as everyone thinks when it comes to pitcher contracts.

It is one policy of JR's that I always respected. Having played fantasy baseball for 17 years now has opened my eyes even more to how fickle pitching talent is. I think anyone who guarantees more than 5 years to any pitcher is being foolish. I like the Sox's cut off at 4, btw.

Trav
04-29-2008, 10:57 AM
I used to piss and moan about large contracts, but does anyone know what fraction the payrolls are of the overall revenue for the teams? I would be interested to see the change over time. It seems like players should be making silly amounts of money because of how much the MLB makes.

Irishsox1
04-29-2008, 11:17 AM
What Zito is going through is all mental. In Oakland he was part of a good group of pitchers that play in the most friendly pitchers park in baseball and the pressure wasn't on soley him to perform, I mean does anyone go to these A's games other than that annoying guy with the horn during the Sox games?

Now he's the highest paid guy on the team on the big bay area team, he's expected to be the leader and he plays in hitter friendly park, at least compared to Oakland.

He's flat out choking from the pressure. But that's cool, he can just hang out, play his guitar, hit the bong, and eat an entire bag of Cheeto's in the bull pen.

spiffie
04-29-2008, 11:25 AM
I used to piss and moan about large contracts, but does anyone know what fraction the payrolls are of the overall revenue for the teams? I would be interested to see the change over time. It seems like players should be making silly amounts of money because of how much the MLB makes.
Obviously no one can figure out an exact number, but Bud Selig was just crowing about MLB passing the $6 billion a year mark in revenue. Just using the numbers from AP (not perfectly exact, but enough for a ballpark figure) the payrolls this year for the majors are appx. 2.7 billion. So about 45% of revenues are going into major league payrolls across MLB. Of course, I don't know how much of those revenues are held by MLB versus being shared out to the various franchises.

DSpivack
04-29-2008, 11:40 AM
What Zito is going through is all mental. In Oakland he was part of a good group of pitchers that play in the most friendly pitchers park in baseball and the pressure wasn't on soley him to perform, I mean does anyone go to these A's games other than that annoying guy with the horn during the Sox games?

Now he's the highest paid guy on the team on the big bay area team, he's expected to be the leader and he plays in hitter friendly park, at least compared to Oakland.

He's flat out choking from the pressure. But that's cool, he can just hang out, play his guitar, hit the bong, and eat an entire bag of Cheeto's in the bull pen.

That's pure speculation. How do you know he hasn't simply lost velocity?

Foulke You
04-29-2008, 11:42 AM
Somehow I imagine that if he pitches against us next month he will look like an ace. Just a feeling anyway.
Of course he will. He is a lefty soft tosser that every other team kills. The perfect formula to baffle Sox batters.:tongue:

TDog
04-29-2008, 01:23 PM
That's pure speculation. How do you know he hasn't simply lost velocity?

He obviously has lost velocity, according to all accounts.. People who continue to support him say the velocity loss is mental.

VeeckAsInWreck
04-29-2008, 01:59 PM
Barry is going to have more time to buy new groceries, be a street performer and to bark at seals.

MXE_ENHrt3A

RockJock07
04-29-2008, 04:25 PM
I think part of the problem is that the A's wear out their starting pitchers. Mulder and Hudson both had injuries problems with their new teams. It's clear something is wrong with Zito and it maybe physical. Harden is on the DL. I bet Haren breaks down soon, though he's pitching great with the DBacks.

I think that's probably true. Mulder hasn't been that bad, he just can't stay healthy, Hudson has been better of late but wasn't all that impressive when he was first traded. Billy Bean is just like KW in that he knows when to give up on his players that have seen better days. (part of this is due to the fact that Bean wasn't gonna be able to re-sign them)

I think anytime you sign that big of a contract pressure is gonna be on. Im sure Zito is a very nice guy, I know he's really good friends with John Mayer, maybe the Giants should just DL him and let go play some guitar with JM.

doublem23
04-29-2008, 04:47 PM
That's pure speculation. How do you know he hasn't simply lost velocity?

Don't you need to have velocity to lose it?

Zito's never been a power pitcher, he's relied on that crazy curveball to buckle people's knees... I'm sure his struggles are some combination of being in his head, physical trouble, and maybe struggling to adjust to the adjustments hitters have made.

He did throw a lot of innings with Oakland, though.

DSpivack
04-29-2008, 07:42 PM
Don't you need to have velocity to lose it?

Zito's never been a power pitcher, he's relied on that crazy curveball to buckle people's knees... I'm sure his struggles are some combination of being in his head, physical trouble, and maybe struggling to adjust to the adjustments hitters have made.

He did throw a lot of innings with Oakland, though.

I thought he just couldn't throw as fast as he once did, be it on a fastball or whatever. I didn't really know much about the guy, besides how well he did in Oakland and the hammer he was famous for.

I suppose there aren't too many pitchers these days who can give you well over 200 innings every year without losing any stuff after awhile.

Boondock Saint
04-30-2008, 12:45 AM
Don't you need to have velocity to lose it?

Zito's never been a power pitcher, he's relied on that crazy curveball to buckle people's knees... I'm sure his struggles are some combination of being in his head, physical trouble, and maybe struggling to adjust to the adjustments hitters have made.

He did throw a lot of innings with Oakland, though.

I don't know, man. Now that his fastball is around ten mph slower than it used to be, it makes his change up and curveball much less effective. The situation is worsened by the fact that he never was a power pitcher. If he can't keep hitters honest by blowing them away once in a while, all they have to do is figure out whether his next pitch is slow and moving or just slow.

Trav
04-30-2008, 07:22 AM
Obviously no one can figure out an exact number, but Bud Selig was just crowing about MLB passing the $6 billion a year mark in revenue. Just using the numbers from AP (not perfectly exact, but enough for a ballpark figure) the payrolls this year for the majors are appx. 2.7 billion. So about 45% of revenues are going into major league payrolls across MLB. Of course, I don't know how much of those revenues are held by MLB versus being shared out to the various franchises.

Thanks for the info. That's good stuff.

RockyMtnSoxFan
04-30-2008, 10:10 AM
Barry is going to have more time to buy new groceries, be a street performer and to bark at seals.

MXE_ENHrt3A

What a chump. He really thinks he's pretty cool. Maybe if he spent less time goofing off he'd be a better baseball player.

FedEx227
04-30-2008, 11:38 AM
It all started last summer, he changed his mechanics to attempt to add a bit of speed to his fastball. When he got to camp after doing it all summer the Giants were VERY disappointed, as obviously they wanted him for his curveball, not his 86 mph fastball.

Frankly, I don't think he's found those same mechanics he had in Oakland, even his curve is a shell of it's former self.

VeeckAsInWreck
04-30-2008, 11:51 AM
What a chump. He really thinks he's pretty cool. Maybe if he spent less time goofing off he'd be a better baseball player.

With all the Swisher love that's been going around WSI, I'm wondering how soon before the dark clouds begin to say that about Dirty 30.

FedEx227
04-30-2008, 11:53 AM
With all the Swisher love that's been going around WSI, I'm wondering how soon before the dark clouds begin to say that about Dirty 30.

Soon, because wherever there are idiots, there will be attributing lack of focus and goofing off as barriers from being a good baseball player.

Zito changed his mechanics and hasn't been able to get them back... that's why he sucks. His 12-6 curve is nowhere near as droopy as it use to be and it's finishing at the heart of the plate.

Jjav829
05-07-2008, 08:53 PM
Zito moved back into the rotation today and surprisingly, didn't suck! He actually pitched fairly well. 5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 5 K. That's actually a decent start! But...because the Giants can't score, he still picked up the loss. Zito is 0-7 now.

TDog
05-08-2008, 12:29 AM
Zito moved back into the rotation today and surprisingly, didn't suck! He actually pitched fairly well. 5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 5 K. That's actually a decent start! But...because the Giants can't score, he still picked up the loss. Zito is 0-7 now.

I really hadn't given it much thought until now, but the Giants aren't that much different from the White Sox. Mark Buehrle isn't anywhere near as bad as Barry Zito this year. Buehrle is generally only bad in one crucial situation where he has two outs, and sometimes two strikes on the hitter. Sometimes there are men on base. Sometimes they only start getting on base after two are out. Today Zito was just bad enough to lose, which has been Buehrle's MO this season.

The Giants do have more speed in their lineup and more youth. And they have Aaron Rowand who once broke his nose to preserve Gavin Floyd's first major league shutout.

And despite what I read around here, I expect the White Sox to win quite a few more games than the Giants.

Craig Grebeck
05-08-2008, 07:18 AM
I really hadn't given it much thought until now, but the Giants aren't that much different from the White Sox. Mark Buehrle isn't anywhere near as bad as Barry Zito this year. Buehrle is generally only bad in one crucial situation where he has two outs, and sometimes two strikes on the hitter. Sometimes there are men on base. Sometimes they only start getting on base after two are out. Today Zito was just bad enough to lose, which has been Buehrle's MO this season.

The Giants do have more speed in their lineup and more youth. And they have Aaron Rowand who once broke his nose to preserve Gavin Floyd's first major league shutout.

And despite what I read around here, I expect the White Sox to win quite a few more games than the Giants.
The youth in their lineup is absolutely horrendous. If they didn't have Lincecum/Cain they wouldn't win 50.

sox1970
05-08-2008, 09:07 AM
May 17--Buehrle vs. Zito

Already dreading it.

TDog
05-08-2008, 01:00 PM
The youth in their lineup is absolutely horrendous. If they didn't have Lincecum/Cain they wouldn't win 50.

I didn't say the Giants were better off than the Sox because they had youth and speed. Fred Lewis did hit for the cycle last year and came within a double of hitting for the cycle a couple of weeks ago when he came up in the ninth inning against the Reds and took a walk to keep a desperate rally alive before it fell a run short. People seem to get excited over players hitting for the cycle.

Lincecum and Cain will lose their share of games this year, just as good Sox starters have lost games this year.