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France
04-27-2008, 10:31 PM
Would the O-Birds go for this trade? I think it is a fair deal. Can Kenny work his magic? Maybe throw Uribe in also?

hi im skot
04-27-2008, 10:34 PM
Why?

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 10:34 PM
Stop.

QCIASOXFAN
04-27-2008, 10:34 PM
I think they would want more than Fields. I don't think throwing in Uribe will seal the deal either.

France
04-27-2008, 10:36 PM
Why?

Because Juan is not any good, we need speed in the top of our line-up. The Sox have 6 stolen bases on the year. Lance Berkman of Houston has 4. Is that not the biggest wake up call in sports or what?

DumpJerry
04-27-2008, 10:40 PM
Nope. Not a good idea to trade the future for someone on the Mitchell Report.

France
04-27-2008, 10:42 PM
Nope. Not a good idea to trade the future for someone on the Mitchell Report.


Joe Clutch crede is the future, we need to get rid of Fields while he is worth something.

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 10:42 PM
Because Juan is not any good, we need speed in the top of our line-up. The Sox have 6 stolen bases on the year. Lance Berkman of Houston has 4. Is that not the biggest wake up call in sports or what?
Stolen bases = the least important aspect of offensive performance.

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 10:43 PM
If Crede and co would come down to earth and sign a long term (reasonable) deal today..... then go for it.

Why?

Fields is only good for us for 3B.

He can't play 2B or he would be there right now or at least practicing it in Charlotte.

OF is already jammd with good talent there, and he did not look good there last year.


Leaves DH & 1B for him. Is Paulie going to accept a trade being a a 5/10 guy? If you do not pick up Thome's option next year you remove your only real power threat from the left side, unless we are confident Swisher can be that 3 hole hitter Thome is.

Roberts is still under control for 2 more seasons after this one, so it is not a rental situation.

Roberts
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
AJ
Carlos
Crede
Cabrera

Very nice!

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 10:47 PM
It would be awful to give up Fields. They have no leverage in deal making; the guy has been affiliated with PED.

oeo
04-27-2008, 10:47 PM
Do these threads really start this early?

Just to let you know: the Orioles are currently in first place, they're not dealing anyone right now.

DumpJerry
04-27-2008, 10:50 PM
Joe Clutch crede is the future, we need to get rid of Fields while he is worth something.
Did Crede sign a multi-year deal we were not told about? Have you read any of the threads which discuss Crede and/or his agent?

Yes, Crede is the future, but he may not be our future.

WhiteSox5187
04-27-2008, 10:54 PM
It would be awful to give up Fields. They have no leverage in deal making; the guy has been affiliated with PED.
So you're saying you don't want anyone ever affilliated with any sort of PED on this roster? If a guy hitting .400 became available and was on the Mitchell Report you wouldn't want him on this team? That's nuts.

As for SBs being the least important offensive stat, well Roberts IS a guy who gets on at about a .350 clip, and how can having a guy who can steal 30+ bags in any way hurt a team? Especially THIS team where we have a TON of guys who can slug, but very few who can steal bases and cause chaos for an opposing pitcher.

Now as for the idea, if we were to lock up Crede to a long term deal, I would be all for it. But I don't think that that is going to happen. If we can form some other sort of deal for him without Fields, I'd be for that too.

JermaineDye05
04-27-2008, 10:57 PM
Why would they? They have a good 3rd basemen right now in Melvin Mora. Josh Fields is not good in the outfield and even if he was decent, the O's have a full outfield with promising players like Markakis and Jones. It doesn't make sense.

chaerulez
04-27-2008, 10:58 PM
I don't think Roberts being on the Mitchell report diminshes his value at all, unless he tests positive and unless he is stupid as hell I doubt that happens. Look at Tejada, he was named in the Mitchell report and aged two years suddenly but I think if the Astros were intersted in trading him at this moment they could get a lot for him. With that said Fields for Roberts is a pretty horrible trade idea. Roberts' best asset is speed. He is slighty above average in getting on base and not so good at hitting home runs (well assuming he isn't taking PEDs). Josh Fields hit 23 HRs in under 400 ABs last year in his first semi-full MLB season. He has the talent to be a 40 HR guy for the next decade. We'd be selling low on Fields to give him up for a 30 year old 2B that is above average at most.

cards press box
04-27-2008, 10:59 PM
Would the O-Birds go for this trade? I think it is a fair deal. Can Kenny work his magic? Maybe throw Uribe in also?

Why would the Sox want to make this deal? Roberts has a .345 OBP. Both Swisher and O. Cabrera will likely do better than that.

I think the White Sox are currently fine with the 2nd basemen they have. If Danny Richar begins to light up Triple-A, then the Sox might consider making a move, Actually, with Fields, Owens, Richar, Broadway and, until yesterday, Wasserman at Triple-A, the Sox have some depth in the minors.

One more observation -- with Crede's uncertain contract status for next year, trading Fields is a very risky proposition. If Crede's agent wants Crede to test the free agent market next winter and Crede agrees with this strategy, the Sox can't stop him from doing so. Fields gives the Sox protection in the event that Crede signs elsewhere. I would be very hesitant to deal Fields for anybody.

France
04-27-2008, 11:00 PM
Did Crede sign a multi-year deal we were not told about? Have you read any of the threads which discuss Crede and/or his agent?

Yes, Crede is the future, but he may not be our future.

No way no how Crede is going anywhere. I think he will be willing to take a hometown discount to stay maybe something like 5 years $60Mil with some performance incentives.

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 11:00 PM
So you're saying you don't want anyone ever affilliated with any sort of PED on this roster? If a guy hitting .400 became available and was on the Mitchell Report you wouldn't want him on this team? That's nuts.

As for SBs being the least important offensive stat, well Roberts IS a guy who gets on at about a .350 clip, and how can having a guy who can steal 30+ bags in any way hurt a team? Especially THIS team where we have a TON of guys who can slug, but very few who can steal bases and cause chaos for an opposing pitcher.

Now as for the idea, if we were to lock up Crede to a long term deal, I would be all for it. But I don't think that that is going to happen. If we can form some other sort of deal for him without Fields, I'd be for that too.
Re-read the post. They have no leverage because he's been associated with PED.
Why would they? They have a good 3rd basemen right now in Melvin Mora.
He's alright - but 36. Taking Fields would be a no-brainer for them.

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 11:01 PM
No way no how Crede is going anywhere. I think he will be willing to take a hometown discount to stay maybe something like 5 years $60Mil with some performance incentives.
One of the worst contracts in franchise history.

DumpJerry
04-27-2008, 11:03 PM
No way no how Crede is going anywhere. I think he will be willing to take a hometown discount to stay maybe something like 5 years $60Mil with some performance incentives.
Have you seen this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=100241) thread? Players don't stick with Borass to give out hometown discounts.

Randar68
04-27-2008, 11:05 PM
It would be awful to give up Fields. They have no leverage in deal making; the guy has been affiliated with PED.

You'll never see the power from him, but his speed is not due to performance enhancements...

I like that he can play 2B or OF and can be a legit hitter at the top of the order.

Would I trade Fields for him? No chance in hell. Broadway, Whisler, McCulloch, Egbert, etc? Sure, why not.

voodoochile
04-27-2008, 11:06 PM
Just put Fields and Richar in touch with Roberts' HGH supplier and give them some clean needles.

I mean if you are going to hire cheaters, might as well be cheap ones...

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 11:07 PM
You'll never see the power from him, but his speed is not due to performance enhancements...

I like that he can play 2B or OF and can be a legit hitter at the top of the order.

Would I trade Fields for him? No chance in hell. Broadway, Whisler, McCulloch, Egbert, etc? Sure, why not.
No thanks on Whisler, Broadway or Egbert.

Let's see what we have in Richar before we overpay for a 2nd baseman.

France
04-27-2008, 11:08 PM
Have you seen this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=100241) thread? Players don't stick with Borass to give out hometown discounts.


I'm sure KW will work it out with Borass, a deal can be made. You just may be paying $7.50 for a beer next year, no big deal. Get it done KW.:bandance:

DumpJerry
04-27-2008, 11:14 PM
I'm sure KW will work it out with Borass, a deal can be made. You just may be paying $7.50 for a beer next year, no big deal. Get it done KW.:bandance:
Well, time will tell. I hope you're right about Crede, but not the beer prices.

France
04-27-2008, 11:16 PM
Well, time will tell. I hope you're right about Crede, but not the beer prices.


Better beer than tickets my friend. :tongue:

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 11:22 PM
One of the worst contracts in franchise history.


Please.

Jamie Navarro cannot be topped.

Dotel is right behind that one when it is all set and done.

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 11:25 PM
Better beer than tickets my friend. :tongue:


Beer prices are up to $6.50 this year....... I am starting to question if I should even have one when going to a game. I'm the guy who once I have one I need have 6-8 of them. With tips that will run me about $45-50 per night.

I picked up a 12 pack of bottle MGDs for 6.99 the other day ..... $6.50 for one at the park.

kaufsox
04-27-2008, 11:26 PM
Have you seen this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=100241) thread? Players don't stick with Borass to give out hometown discounts.

true enough, but the shine is a little tarnished on the apple for Scotty since his biggest client went around him during negotiations. Joe might walk at the end of the year, but the charm of Boras seems to have waned.

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 11:35 PM
Please.

Jamie Navarro cannot be topped.

Dotel is right behind that one when it is all set and done.
Really? A decent sized, two-year commitment for a pretty good reliever is worse than giving a third baseman with ONE good season a ginormous five-year deal?
When there is a player on the farm at the same position who slugged .480 in his rookie season?

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 11:38 PM
Really? A decent sized, two-year commitment for a pretty good reliever is worse than giving a third baseman with ONE good season a ginormous five-year deal?
When there is a player on the farm at the same position who slugged .480 in his rookie season?


Believe it or not, 5 yrs $60 million dollars is no where close to being "ginormous" by today's standards.

Tragg
04-27-2008, 11:41 PM
This horrible idea has been resurrected again? Gracious.

This notion that Roberts is some elite player is almost as silly as the 2005 rantings that AJ Burnett was an elite pitcher.
Roberts is a good player - but .350 obp, 10-15 homers, steals isn't great.

Get well soon, Richar. We may get that production (minus the steals) from you.

Crede is not worth 12 Million.
If Fields can't play 3rd, trade him for YOUNG talent (not an aging veteran) or let him try a new position like first base.

WhiteSox5187
04-27-2008, 11:42 PM
Really? A decent sized, two-year commitment for a pretty good reliever is worse than giving a third baseman with ONE good season a ginormous five-year deal?
When there is a player on the farm at the same position who slugged .480 in his rookie season?
And might not be able to play third base at a major league level defensively...this year will tell what we're going to get out of Crede. The jury is still out on Fields.

WhiteSox5187
04-27-2008, 11:46 PM
Believe it or not, 5 yrs $60 million dollars is no where close to being "ginormous" by today's standards.
Yea, that might be the going rate on players who put up Crede's numbers soon. Especially in a market where Gagne can get ten million for one season, and how much is Aramis Rameriz getting? Crede is going to make Konerko like money because a player of Konerko's talent wouldn't get that kind of money in today's market, he'd get much much more.

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 11:50 PM
This horrible idea has been resurrected again? Gracious.

This notion that Roberts is some elite player is almost as silly as the 2005 rantings that AJ Burnett was an elite pitcher.
Roberts is a good player - but .350 obp, 10-15 homers, steals isn't great.

Get well soon, Richar. We may get that production (minus the steals) from you.

Crede is not worth 12 Million.
If Fields can't play 3rd, trade him for YOUNG talent (not an aging veteran) or let him try a new position like first base.

Isn't "demand" what determines "worth?"

Crede will be "worth" $12 million + because more than one team will have a "demand" for him.

We have been proven wrong time and time again about his idea that a player is not "worth" X amount of dollars because time and time again (dumb or not) a team is willing to pay that kind of money.

Now is he "worth" it to the Sox to keep him for that amount of money, because someone else will pay him that and perhaps even more.

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 11:52 PM
Yea, that might be the going rate on players who put up Crede's numbers soon. Especially in a market where Gagne can get ten million for one season, and how much is Aramis Rameriz getting? Crede is going to make Konerko like money because a player of Konerko's talent wouldn't get that kind of money in today's market, he'd get much much more.


You are right on.

The market is what it is.

And I can guarantee Crede will make a fat pay day because of the guy who represents him.

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 11:54 PM
Yea, that might be the going rate on players who put up Crede's numbers soon. Especially in a market where Gagne can get ten million for one season, and how much is Aramis Rameriz getting? Crede is going to make Konerko like money because a player of Konerko's talent wouldn't get that kind of money in today's market, he'd get much much more.
10 million for one season is not even close to 12 million for five. Aramis Ramirez is irrelevant because he is an elite third baseman.

Craig Grebeck
04-27-2008, 11:55 PM
You are right on.

The market is what it is.

And I can guarantee Crede will make a fat pay day because of the guy who represents him.
Then let someone else make that mistake.

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 11:56 PM
10 million for one season is not even close to 12 million for five. Aramis Ramirez is irrelevant because he is an elite third baseman.


:rolling:

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2008, 11:57 PM
Then let someone else make that mistake.


Your are right on there.

But it is the Sox who need to determine the risk/mistake/ etc....

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 12:00 AM
:rolling:
Care to extrapolate?

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2008, 12:21 AM
Care to extrapolate?
Oooh, good word...for me it's all just a matter of opinion here, but I think Aramis is one of the most overrated players in all of baseball. He's a dog, he tries only when he wants. Doesn't hustle. He is a butcher in the field. He puts up nice offensive numbers and that's fine for fantasy, but I wouldn't want him on my team.

thomas35forever
04-28-2008, 12:23 AM
No. As much as I hate Uribe, I hate to think of Roberts as a replacement. Also, what if Crede goes down? Who do we have to play third then?

kittle42
04-28-2008, 12:28 AM
Hey, two of my favorite arguments: Crede v. Fields and "Aramis Ramirez is not good" when he obviously is.

Man I hate this thread.

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2008, 12:34 AM
Hey, two of my favorite arguments: Crede v. Fields and "Aramis Ramirez is not good" when he obviously is.

Man I hate this thread.
Then why post in it?

DSpivack
04-28-2008, 12:36 AM
Hey, two of my favorite arguments: Crede v. Fields and "Aramis Ramirez is not good" when he obviously is.

Man I hate this thread.

Some even argue for Fields and say Aramis sucks, when both players are high-slugging, bad-defense 3B.

LoveYourSuit
04-28-2008, 01:10 AM
Oooh, good word...for me it's all just a matter of opinion here, but I think Aramis is one of the most overrated players in all of baseball. He's a dog, he tries only when he wants. Doesn't hustle. He is a butcher in the field. He puts up nice offensive numbers and that's fine for fantasy, but I wouldn't want him on my team.


Agreed.

Aramis Ramirez is sort of like Carlos Lee.....a dog with great fantasy numbers.

kittle42
04-28-2008, 02:16 AM
Then why post in it?

I live to inform.

chaerulez
04-28-2008, 06:46 AM
Agreed.

Aramis Ramirez is sort of like Carlos Lee.....a dog with great fantasy numbers.

Two guys that hit 30 home runs and drive in 100 runs a season while usually hitting around .300, but they aren't small scrappy guys, they must be lazy and suck!

MISoxfan
04-28-2008, 07:52 AM
If Crede hits 30 home runs with 90+ RBI's again this season he will at least get 5/60.

If he hits .280/30/90 he's worth that to most major league teams. Even if he has a pedestrian .320-.340 OBP his glove more than makes up for it.

Fields may be the better choice for this team in the long run as long as we use that money wisely. Fields may end up with up to 10 more HR's in a season than Joe, but thats it. He's still going to be a K machine and not the kind with 100 walks.

johnr1note
04-28-2008, 08:04 AM
This is crazy. The O's turned down multiple offers from the Cubs where 4 or 5 young players with bright futures were offered for Roberts straight up. You honestly think they will take a decent prospect who is only good to play third base which they already have adequately filled and throw in an over the hill former shortstop? Even the proposals of giving them a bunch of our young pitching prospects won't tempt them. They already received plenty of these kinds of players in the Bedard and Tejada deals.

They are currently in first, and are playing well. If they are going to trade Roberts, I can only see it happening at the deadline, and then probably for a front line pitcher if they're still in contention, or a can't miss prospect if they're not.

This isn't happening. I'd like to see if we can improve offensively with Uribe at 2B -- but Roberts will not be our answer.

ondafarm
04-28-2008, 08:43 AM
Everything I've heard is that the O's want to reload if they trade Roberts. As in 4 or 5 ready or soon ready guys who will be locked in to cheap rates for the next several years. You'd have to offer them guys who'd plug holes and or really contribute or both. Shortstop does appear to be a weakness, but I don't know if they consider Uribe an upgrade. They might accept Fields over Mora at third, but that'd leave them wanting a couple more players. I'd say BA, but they have an outstanding young guy in CF so that won't fly. Do the Sox have some pitching they'd go for? They might like Haeger and he'd do wonders for them, but I doubt the Sox would part with him. I'd say we are still talking sending over another guy after Haeger for Roberts and I just don't see this getting done.
The Orioles are in first place, but they won't last there. They don't have the pitching to handle the Yanks and Red Sox let alone Rays and Jays. This is a rebuilding year for them.

voodoochile
04-28-2008, 09:03 AM
Everything I've heard is that the O's want to reload if they trade Roberts. As in 4 or 5 ready or soon ready guys who will be locked in to cheap rates for the next several years. You'd have to offer them guys who'd plug holes and or really contribute or both. Shortstop does appear to be a weakness, but I don't know if they consider Uribe an upgrade. They might accept Fields over Mora at third, but that'd leave them wanting a couple more players. I'd say BA, but they have an outstanding young guy in CF so that won't fly. Do the Sox have some pitching they'd go for? They might like Haeger and he'd do wonders for them, but I doubt the Sox would part with him. I'd say we are still talking sending over another guy after Haeger for Roberts and I just don't see this getting done.
The Orioles are in first place, but they won't last there. They don't have the pitching to handle the Yanks and Red Sox let alone Rays and Jays. This is a rebuilding year for them.

Can you picture the **** storm they would set off in the local papers if they whiteflagged it in April while leading their division? They'd get simply hammered in the press. I mean crushed.

Oh and welcome back...

Optipessimism
04-28-2008, 09:07 AM
If the Sox trade Fields it better be for a player a lot more talented than Brian Roberts.

Just because the O's asked for a ton from the Cubs doesn't mean Roberts is worth that. If the O's shot down some of those offers the Cubs made they're idiots.

If the Astros look to move Roy Oswalt however, I'd have no problem with the Sox offering up Fields as the centerpiece to that deal, along with Poreda, Martinez and whoever else. But dealing Josh's bat for a much weaker bat is dumb, especially when we have three young guys ready to start at 2B next year (Richar, Ramirez, Getz) and a fourth player maybe by 2010 (Shelby).

kittle42
04-28-2008, 09:12 AM
Everything I've heard is that the O's want to reload if they trade Roberts. As in 4 or 5 ready or soon ready guys who will be locked in to cheap rates for the next several years. You'd have to offer them guys who'd plug holes and or really contribute or both.

That is pretty much what the Cubs offered them. Had the Cubs taken out, say, Gallagher and thrown in an actual MLB-ready pitcher, they would have had Roberts, I bet.

They might like Haeger and he'd do wonders for them, but I doubt the Sox would part with him. I'd say we are still talking sending over another guy after Haeger for Roberts and I just don't see this getting done.

Are you seriously only speculating that it would take more than Haeger to get Roberts? News flash for all you Wakefield lovers out there - Haeger is not a top-line prospect by any stretch of the imagination. "He'd do wonders for them"???? Please, I've had a long weekend working - I could use some of what you're on.

The Immigrant
04-28-2008, 09:14 AM
The White Sox will not trade Josh Fields unless and until Joe Crede signs a long term deal with the Sox (which I am not advocating). Period, end of story.

Since Crede will not sign a free agent deal until the offseason, there should be a moratorium on all trade talk involving Josh Fields until then. For the record, I am of the view that trading Josh Fields would be foolish even if Crede is re-signed, in which case Fields could be our 1B or DH of the future, unless he's part of a deal for a front-line starter.

TomBradley72
04-28-2008, 09:25 AM
They might like Haeger and he'd do wonders for them, but I doubt the Sox would part with him.

:scratch::rolleyes::kneeslap::rolling:

Droso5
04-28-2008, 09:25 AM
I think the answer is so very obvious guys, the Sox should just keep Crede and put Fields at 2nd base! Isn't it obvious? :gulp::scratch:

Things are working decently for the Sox currently, I wouldn't mind having Roberts at all but the asking price would be so much more than Fields as it make it a trade of diminishing returns. People just need to relax as the season is so very early right now, way to early for big trade talk or ledge jumping as the Sox still are above .500.

TomBradley72
04-28-2008, 09:41 AM
I like the idea of keeping Fields as a guy who can produce for the next 4-5 years relatively cheaply vs a high priced veteran. It's a good move strategically because that savings can go towards pitching or plugging another hole via free agency.

But I'd rather see us sign Crede and have Fields replace either Thome or Konerko in 2009, with the savings from one of their salaries basically paying for Crede's contract. With Crede's exceptional defense, I think he's tougher to replace than either Paulie or Thome. I think Fields would be a great DH or could develop into an acceptable 1st baseman.

Frater Perdurabo
04-28-2008, 10:03 AM
But I'd rather see us sign Crede and have Fields replace either Thome or Konerko in 2009, with the savings from one of their salaries basically paying for Crede's contract. With Crede's exceptional defense, I think he's tougher to replace than either Paulie or Thome. I think Fields would be a great DH or could develop into an acceptable 1st baseman.

Yes. I like this plan the best. I'm just not sure which of the two to trade.

Both Thome and Paulie are great power hitters. Thome is older and tends to suffer nagging injuries, but is left-handed (a plus in a lineup that otherwise is RH-heavy). Paulie is younger, a model of durability, and still can play the field very well, but is right-handed.

chaerulez
04-28-2008, 10:06 AM
Everything I've heard is that the O's want to reload if they trade Roberts. As in 4 or 5 ready or soon ready guys who will be locked in to cheap rates for the next several years. You'd have to offer them guys who'd plug holes and or really contribute or both. Shortstop does appear to be a weakness, but I don't know if they consider Uribe an upgrade. They might accept Fields over Mora at third, but that'd leave them wanting a couple more players. I'd say BA, but they have an outstanding young guy in CF so that won't fly. Do the Sox have some pitching they'd go for? They might like Haeger and he'd do wonders for them, but I doubt the Sox would part with him. I'd say we are still talking sending over another guy after Haeger for Roberts and I just don't see this getting done.
The Orioles are in first place, but they won't last there. They don't have the pitching to handle the Yanks and Red Sox let alone Rays and Jays. This is a rebuilding year for them.

Why would Haeger do wonders for the Orioles and not the White Sox? Do they have some magical knuckle ball effect at Camden Yards? And why wouldn't the Sox part with Haeger, he's not a top prospect. I highly doubt the White Sox and Orioles are talking about trading Haeger for Roberts with the hold on the deal being an extra player. That is a ridiculous statement. The Orioles turned down Gallagher, Marshall and a couple other minor leaguers for Roberts but suddenly would take Haeger and one other guy? No...

ondafarm
04-28-2008, 10:08 AM
I'd rather see Konerko go than Thome and I'd try Fields/ Swisher at first base. Two problems. First, doesn't PK soon have 5/10 status and full trade veto rights. Second, we'd need to resign Crede and preferably long-term.
PK may be soon to acquire those rights.

ondafarm
04-28-2008, 10:16 AM
Why would Haeger do wonders for the Orioles and not the White Sox? Do they have some magical knuckle ball effect at Camden Yards? And why wouldn't the Sox part with Haeger, he's not a top prospect. I highly doubt the White Sox and Orioles are talking about trading Haeger for Roberts with the hold on the deal being an extra player. That is a ridiculous statement. The Orioles turned down Gallagher, Marshall and a couple other minor leaguers for Roberts but suddenly would take Haeger and one other guy? No...

Sorry, I was unclear.

Fields, Haeger and at least one other guy for Roberts was what I was suggesting might be talked about.

While I wouldn't call it a "magical knuckle ball effect at Camden Yards" I will say, the predominant atmosphere at Camden Yards (hot, muggy, very humid, with frequent sea-breezes) is what knuckleballers dream of. The Orioles also train in Florida which would be better for Haeger than Arizona, for similar atmospherics. The Oriole's divisional opponents (especially the Yanks and Red Sox) both play in better parks for knuckleballers than KC and Minny.

By do wonders for them what I do mean is that he'd be a real innings eater and give them a whole lot of starts, especially when a rubber arm guy comes in real handy. Since Baltimore is a small market, having a cheap guy who carries a lot of innings and mostly keeps you in games (I'd call it a value acquisition) would be especially worthwhile for the Orioles.

Sorry if you think I'm being ridiculous.

cws05champ
04-28-2008, 10:22 AM
I heard that the deal was Fields, Broadway, Haeger for Roberts. The Sox wanted to include Uribe in the deal and that Killed it! :smile:

Frater Perdurabo
04-28-2008, 10:25 AM
Sorry, I was unclear.

Fields, Haeger and at least one other guy for Roberts was what I was suggesting might be talked about.

While I wouldn't call it a "magical knuckle ball effect at Camden Yards" I will say, the predominant atmosphere at Camden Yards (hot, muggy, very humid, with frequent sea-breezes) is what knuckleballers dream of. The Orioles also train in Florida which would be better for Haeger than Arizona, for similar atmospherics. The Oriole's divisional opponents (especially the Yanks and Red Sox) both play in better parks for knuckleballers than KC and Minny.

By do wonders for them what I do mean is that he'd be a real innings eater and give them a whole lot of starts, especially when a rubber arm guy comes in real handy. Since Baltimore is a small market, having a cheap guy who carries a lot of innings and mostly keeps you in games (I'd call it a value acquisition) would be especially worthwhile for the Orioles.

Sorry if you think I'm being ridiculous.

I don't think you're being ridiculous. A knuckle ball would be expected to be most effective at or near sea level, where the denser air (which as you mentioned, is also humid and often hot) would interact more with the knuckler. Boston is at sea level, which certainly helps Wakefield's knuckler. The fact that Boston, New York and Tampa/St. Pete, as well as interleague partner Washington also are at sea level, should make a knuckler like Haeger much more attractive to Orioles. Of course, who knows if the Orioles are smart enough to realize this.

soxtalker
04-28-2008, 10:38 AM
The White Sox will not trade Josh Fields unless and until Joe Crede signs a long term deal with the Sox (which I am not advocating). Period, end of story.

Since Crede will not sign a free agent deal until the offseason, there should be a moratorium on all trade talk involving Josh Fields until then. For the record, I am of the view that trading Josh Fields would be foolish even if Crede is re-signed, in which case Fields could be our 1B or DH of the future, unless he's part of a deal for a front-line starter.

Perhaps I'm just being cynical, but I get the impression that most of these ideas about alternate things to do with Fields (2nd base, various trades) that have been proposed lately on WSI are really thinly veiled attempts to avoid the likely scenario that Crede leaves and Fields replaces him. In other words, if you trade Fields, then KW has much more incentive to sign Crede. I just don't see it happening in that order. KW can certainly make surprising moves, but it strikes me that he does things that give him more options.

Lukin13
04-28-2008, 10:45 AM
This deal could very well take place. The fit for both teams is definitely there.

But for it to actually occur two things have to happen:

1. The Orioles need to have a MUCH worse record than 13-10 to trade one of there best players this early in the season.

2. The Sox need to keep winning.

Brian Roberts is a proven talent that is locked up for two more years. I'd hate to say it but considering the current team, there are not too many offensive players out there that would fit into this lineup better than Roberts.

The upgrade from Uribe to Roberts would be monumental and the move should be made if indeed this team plans to make a run.

Tragg
04-28-2008, 10:59 AM
Isn't "demand" what determines "worth?"


Yes. But it is subjective.
And demand is why you think a quantity of goods is worth. To me, Crede isn't worth 12 million; if someone pays him that it is because they think he is.

CubKilla
04-28-2008, 11:21 AM
The O's are in rebuilding mode. No way they trade Roberts for just Fields straight up.

Roberts is 3 or 4 player deal trade bait.

hi im skot
04-28-2008, 11:32 AM
The O's are in rebuilding mode. No way they trade Roberts for just Fields straight up.

Roberts is 3 or 4 player deal trade bait.

The Orioles are also currently tied for first place in the AL east.

They won't do any "rebuilding" until they completely fall out of the race.

UofCSoxFan
04-28-2008, 12:04 PM
The Orioles are also currently tied for first place in the AL east.

They won't do any "rebuilding" until they completely fall out of the race.

Amen. That should end this thread right there.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 12:28 PM
If we are trading Josh Fields:
A) Crede better be signed long term first
B) We are getting Howie Kendrick, Tim Lincecum or someone equilavent in return. Oh and before someone throws out Anaheims record Aybar ( I think his name is) is playing some great ball for them.

kittle42
04-28-2008, 12:33 PM
By do wonders for them what I do mean is that he'd be a real innings eater and give them a whole lot of starts, especially when a rubber arm guy comes in real handy. Since Baltimore is a small market, having a cheap guy who carries a lot of innings and mostly keeps you in games (I'd call it a value acquisition) would be especially worthwhile for the Orioles.

Sorry if you think I'm being ridiculous.

Problem: He's not good

TomBradley72
04-28-2008, 12:34 PM
Yes. I like this plan the best. I'm just not sure which of the two to trade.

Both Thome and Paulie are great power hitters. Thome is older and tends to suffer nagging injuries, but is left-handed (a plus in a lineup that otherwise is RH-heavy). Paulie is younger, a model of durability, and still can play the field very well, but is right-handed.

If Thome's contract automatically "renews" for next year (based on plate appearances this year), there may not be much of a market for him. With Konerko's 5/10 kicking in...he'll have to approve any trade (would probably have to be guaranteed an extension of a 2-3 year past 2010 to make it worth his while)..so neither one is an easy move to pull off.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 12:41 PM
If we are trading Josh Fields:
A) Crede better be signed long term first
B) We are getting Howie Kendrick, Tim Lincecum or someone equilavent in return. Oh and before someone throws out Anaheims record Aybar ( I think his name is) is playing some great ball for them.
You put the wrong guy in pink.

There is no equivalent to Lincecum in baseball.

soxpride724
04-28-2008, 12:43 PM
Because Juan is not any good, we need speed in the top of our line-up. The Sox have 6 stolen bases on the year. Lance Berkman of Houston has 4. Is that not the biggest wake up call in sports or what?

While Uribe's bat is still mia, he is pretty solid defensively. The team dosen't seem to be having problems scoring.

chaerulez
04-28-2008, 12:47 PM
If we are trading Josh Fields:
A) Crede better be signed long term first
B) We are getting Howie Kendrick, Tim Lincecum or someone equilavent in return. Oh and before someone throws out Anaheims record Aybar ( I think his name is) is playing some great ball for them.

Kendrick is 18 for 36 this season, no way he gets traded right now.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 12:57 PM
Kendrick is 18 for 36 this season, no way he gets traded right now.
Aybar is batting .350 as well.

ksimpson14
04-28-2008, 01:00 PM
LOL @ people thinking the Orioles being in 1st will be a factor. Yeah, I'm sure that'll last all of 5 minutes.

Before doing something like this, I'd just have to be positive Crede would re-sign, gaining Roberts and losing 2 3rd basemen would not be a good trade for me

ksimpson14
04-28-2008, 01:02 PM
If we are trading Josh Fields:
A) Crede better be signed long term first
B) We are getting Howie Kendrick, Tim Lincecum or someone equilavent in return. Oh and before someone throws out Anaheims record Aybar ( I think his name is) is playing some great ball for them.

:rolling:

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 01:05 PM
LOL @ people thinking the Orioles being in 1st will be a factor. Yeah, I'm sure that'll last all of 5 minutes.

Before doing something like this, I'd just have to be positive Crede would re-sign, gaining Roberts and losing 2 3rd basemen would not be a good trade for me
Well so far its lasted about 29,000 minutes.

kittle42
04-28-2008, 01:40 PM
Well so far its lasted about 29,000 minutes.

It'll last a few more, but they'll falter and NYY and BOS, at least, will pass them, if not also TOR and TB.

I'd bet the house on them finishing third at best, and probably quite a substantial amount on fourth or lower.

UofCSoxFan
04-28-2008, 01:40 PM
LOL @ people thinking the Orioles being in 1st will be a factor. Yeah, I'm sure that'll last all of 5 minutes.

Before doing something like this, I'd just have to be positive Crede would re-sign, gaining Roberts and losing 2 3rd basemen would not be a good trade for me

How can you ignore this? There is NO WAY the Orioles trade Roberts as long as they are wihin 7 games of first place. Remember, they resisted trading him before the season started and they had even a less of chance at the playoffs than they do now.

This thread really is dumb. No way Fields for Roberts gets it done, even if the O's were looking to trade Roberts. Unfortunately, the rest of the league isn't just a minor league system for the White Sox; other teams, you know, would actually like to improve their teams, especially when in first place.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 01:47 PM
How can you ignore this? There is NO WAY the Orioles trade Roberts as long as they are wihin 7 games of first place. Remember, they resisted trading him before the season started and they had even a less of chance at the playoffs than they do now.

This thread really is dumb. No way Fields for Roberts gets it done, even if the O's were looking to trade Roberts. Unfortunately, the rest of the league isn't just a minor league system for the White Sox; other teams, you know, would actually like to improve their teams, especially when in first place.
I would never, ever make that trade from the White Sox perspective.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 02:37 PM
I think they would want more than Fields. I don't think throwing in Uribe will seal the deal either.
Baltimore would be foolish to turn down Fields/Uribe for Roberts...
Fields will be a 40/120 guy for many years with some speed...
I'm not sure the Sox should make this deal, although it would be great to have Roberts.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 02:39 PM
Did Crede sign a multi-year deal we were not told about? Have you read any of the threads which discuss Crede and/or his agent?

Yes, Crede is the future, but he may not be our future.

You're happy with Fields as your next Sox 3B?
I don't think he can handle the position...
I do, however, think Fields is THE best hitter in the entire organization, and that includes the big team.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 02:40 PM
Would the O-Birds go for this trade? I think it is a fair deal. Can Kenny work his magic? Maybe throw Uribe in also?
I think you make a good trade proposal here.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 02:43 PM
One of the worst contracts in franchise history.
In today's baseball world, I would say Crede would be worth that contract...
He'll flirt with 30 homers and 90/100 RBI. Hit in the clutch. Hit about .280 and is the best defensive 3B in the league.
He also draws people to the park.

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2008, 02:48 PM
In today's baseball world, I would say Crede would be worth that contract...
He'll flirt with 30 homers and 90/100 RBI. Hit in the clutch. Hit about .280 and is the best defensive 3B in the league.
He also draws people to the park.
No he doesn't. People don't go to the park to see defense or a guy hit .280, what he will do is provide great defense and help contribute to a winning team and people will come out to see a winning team.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 02:51 PM
In today's baseball world, I would say Crede would be worth that contract...
He'll flirt with 30 homers and 90/100 RBI. Hit in the clutch. Hit about .280 and is the best defensive 3B in the league.
He also draws people to the park.
Don't post his career year stats as though they are the norm/expected.

ondafarm
04-28-2008, 02:58 PM
I'd bet the house on them finishing third at best, and probably quite a substantial amount on fourth or lower.

Not sure how your odds stacks up with Vegas' but I think they will be in fourth at the end.

Lukin13
04-28-2008, 03:20 PM
If we are trading Josh Fields:
A) Crede better be signed long term first
B) We are getting Howie Kendrick, Tim Lincecum or someone equilavent in return. Oh and before someone throws out Anaheims record Aybar ( I think his name is) is playing some great ball for them.

6,000 posts and you think we can get Lincecum for Fields????????

Good Grief.

Again, this deal cannot happen unless it is late June and the Orioles are at least 10 games back.

spiffie
04-28-2008, 03:28 PM
6,000 posts and you think we can get Lincecum for Fields????????

Good Grief.

Again, this deal cannot happen unless it is late June and the Orioles are at least 10 games back.
Fields for Lincecum straight up would never happen.

But the Giants are right now using a 36 year old with a rather poor career history at 1B. I am not a big fan of messing with something that is winning but, and this is only if you are prepared to do anything it takes to keep Crede around, what if you offered Fields and Konerko as the basis for trade talks about Lincecum?

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 03:30 PM
6,000 posts and you think we can get Lincecum for Fields????????

Good Grief.

Again, this deal cannot happen unless it is late June and the Orioles are at least 10 games back.
I never said I think we could do it, but if i'm trading Fields it better be someone like a Lincecum as far as potential and promise. I don't want a Brian Roberts for Fields. Fields age, price and potential are to valuable. If a team wants him they will have to pay.

kittle42
04-28-2008, 03:43 PM
I never said I think we could do it, but if i'm trading Fields it better be someone like a Lincecum as far as potential and promise. I don't want a Brian Roberts for Fields. Fields age, price and potential are to valuable. If a team wants him they will have to pay.

Why does everyone assume the Giants would want to give up one of the best young pitchers in baseball? They suck, but this isn't the Pirates or Marlins we're talking about here, moneywise.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 03:53 PM
Why does everyone assume the Giants would want to give up one of the best young pitchers in baseball? They suck, but this isn't the Pirates or Marlins we're talking about here, moneywise.
I didn't say they wanted. It was an example of the type of return I would expect for the player Fields is/can be.

soxinem1
04-28-2008, 03:54 PM
Why does everyone assume the Giants would want to give up one of the best young pitchers in baseball? They suck, but this isn't the Pirates or Marlins we're talking about here, moneywise.

SFG is not all bad with pitching, it's the position players that are killing them.

Esp. will Barriod gone, the lineup looks like an Old-Timers Game. They need help at every position except maybe catcher.

So as the old adage goes, trade from a strength.

ondafarm
04-28-2008, 03:56 PM
Can you picture the **** storm they would set off in the local papers if they whiteflagged it in April while leading their division? They'd get simply hammered in the press. I mean crushed.
...

I agree. I mean intellectually, I know the O's won't win the east this year. In my heart, I hate the Yanks enough that I'd love to see them do it, but sometimes Cinderella just plain old gets kicked in the gut.

Optipessimism
04-28-2008, 04:08 PM
No he doesn't. People don't go to the park to see defense or a guy hit .280, what he will do is provide great defense and help contribute to a winning team and people will come out to see a winning team.
In Sox history, Crede is the only player to have never sold a jersey. Nobody has ever come to the park to watch Crede play.

santo=dorf
04-28-2008, 04:08 PM
Why does getonbckthr assume the Giants would want to give up one of the best young pitchers in baseball? They suck, but this isn't the Pirates or Marlins we're talking about here, moneywise.
Fixed your post.

I think the Sox could get Lincecum if they took Barry Zito and his entire contract.

Optipessimism
04-28-2008, 04:23 PM
This thread should die.

For the people saying Fields wouldn't be enough because Baltimore asked for a ton of players from Cubs, note that while the Cubs did offer an impressive package overall, not one player even comes close to being the type of difference maker Fields will likely become.

If KW offered Fields straight up for Roberts he would be stupid to do so considering that 2B is the deepest position the Sox have in the organization outside of corner OF. They have Uribe, Ozuna, Ramirez, Getz, Richar and Bourgeois all at the MLB and AAA levels right now, plus Shelby, another 2B, is one of the organization's top 5 prospects if not higher.

If the Orioles received an offer of Fields for Roberts straight up and passed, they would be absolute morons to do so. Holding onto a 30 year old leadoff man with a year and a half remaining on his contract who makes millions of dollars instead of trading him for a 25 year old future middle of the order hitter under control for a long time and currently at the league minimum, and doing it all during an inevitable suck year and organizational youth movement, is beyond ridiculous.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 04:25 PM
In Sox history, Crede is the only player to have never sold a jersey. Nobody has ever come to the park to watch Crede play.
I bought my sister a Crede jersey.:D:
Fixed your post.

I think the Sox could get Lincecum if they took Barry Zito and his entire contract.
I would be willing to take on Zito's contract if it meant getting Lincecum.

DumpJerry
04-28-2008, 04:40 PM
In Sox history, Crede is the only player to have never sold a jersey. Nobody has ever come to the park to watch Crede play.
You don't get to Sox games often, do you?

Or are you under the impression that the players personally take turns working the crowd to sell jerseys?

I've seen plenty of Crede jerseys at the park. See them every time I'm there and I usually there since I'm a ST holder.

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2008, 04:51 PM
In Sox history, Crede is the only player to have never sold a jersey. Nobody has ever come to the park to watch Crede play.
Please, jersey sales doesn't mean that a guy is making money for a team...by that logic we never should have let go of Rowand or Frank because they sold a ton of jerseys.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 04:55 PM
Don't post his career year stats as though they are the norm/expected.

I don't take orders from you..
I'm posting what I think will be his numbers.
Should have been simple to figure out.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 04:59 PM
No he doesn't. People don't go to the park to see defense or a guy hit .280, what he will do is provide great defense and help contribute to a winning team and people will come out to see a winning team.

Crede is very popular and is one of the players that helps bring people to the park at the outlandish prices they're charging.

Optipessimism
04-28-2008, 05:03 PM
You don't get to Sox games often, do you?

Or are you under the impression that the players personally take turns working the crowd to sell jerseys?

I've seen plenty of Crede jerseys at the park. See them every time I'm there and I usually there since I'm a ST holder.
Sarcasm Airlines just flew right over your head.

Optipessimism
04-28-2008, 05:06 PM
Please, jersey sales doesn't mean that a guy is making money for a team...by that logic we never should have let go of Rowand or Frank because they sold a ton of jerseys.
Yes it does. When people purchase Sox jerseys the team is making money.

Your point was that people don't come to the stadium to see Joe play. That's not true. Not everyone shows up to see Crede, but some do.

santo=dorf
04-28-2008, 05:11 PM
Yes it does. When people purchase Sox jerseys the team is making money.

Your point was that people don't come to the stadium to see Joe play. That's not true. Not everyone shows up to see Crede, but some do.
The White Sox make as much money off a Jim Thome jersey as the do when someone buys a Coco Crisp jersey.

It's shared revenue.

I'd like to see some solid evidence of people deciding to show up to the ballpark just to see Joe Crede play. I can make the same argument with Juan Uribe. I'm a Sox fan first, then an individual fan second. Putting a player ahead of the team as a reason to come out to the ballpark is gumshoe logic.

DumpJerry
04-28-2008, 05:11 PM
Sarcasm Airlines just flew right over your head.
Yeah, others took you seriously, too. Don't quit your day job just yet.

munchman33
04-28-2008, 05:24 PM
Crede is very popular and is one of the players that helps bring people to the park at the outlandish prices they're charging.

Crede missed most of the season last year and people didn't stay away because of it.

Attendance is tied to one thing. Winning. If we win, fans come. If we don't, they won't. You want to argue we're a worse team with Fields instead of Crede, fine. But to intimate that Crede is somehow the reason we get fans is preposterous.

Optipessimism
04-28-2008, 05:36 PM
The White Sox make as much money off a Jim Thome jersey as the do when someone buys a Coco Crisp jersey.

It's shared revenue.

I'd like to see some solid evidence of people deciding to show up to the ballpark just to see Joe Crede play. I can make the same argument with Juan Uribe. I'm a Sox fan first, then an individual fan second. Putting a player ahead of the team as a reason to come out to the ballpark is gumshoe logic.
The first part, you have me there. I didn't know that was all shared.

The second part, you're talking about yourself, not every single Sox fan. I'm sure there are Sox fans out there whose favorite player is Joe Crede and the presence of Joe Crede makes them more apt to go to a ballgame.

I never said anyone was putting a player ahead of a team, geez. Crede is I'm sure part of the reason some people come to the game, just like Thome or Konerko or anyone else. Just like people who check the starting rotation schedule and try to get tickets for games a certain pitcher is pitching. The Sox aren't just a faceless entity.

Optipessimism
04-28-2008, 05:39 PM
Crede missed most of the season last year and people didn't stay away because of it.

Attendance is tied to one thing. Winning. If we win, fans come. If we don't, they won't. You want to argue we're a worse team with Fields instead of Crede, fine. But to intimate that Crede is somehow the reason we get fans is preposterous.
He said that Crede is one of the players that fans will come out to see. What's incorrect about that? And where did Crede say was the reason fans show up?

This is a stupid argument.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 05:59 PM
Crede missed most of the season last year and people didn't stay away because of it.

Attendance is tied to one thing. Winning. If we win, fans come. If we don't, they won't. You want to argue we're a worse team with Fields instead of Crede, fine. But to intimate that Crede is somehow the reason we get fans is preposterous.
Your right winning has an affect on attendance. Last year Joe missed most of the season. Ironically lst season was our worst year since when, like 99. Which was before Joe was here. Crede is essential to this team winning. He saves games with his glove and wins games with his clutch hitting. 05 happened to be that magical age for hitters (27) where they are said to enter their prime. 06 was his best offensive year by far. 07 he was hurting all season. Who knows what a healthy Joe Crede would have done last season. Sure Fields came up and did a great job but who's to say if Crede wasn't healthy Kenny and Ozzie would have forced the Fields to LF experiment to work. Perhaps we are seeing what we lost with an injured Crede in 07 by what he is doing in 08. Among the leaders in HRs and RBIs. Sure its only April but there is no reason to assume he will all of a sudden stop hitting homers and driving in runs.

santo=dorf
04-28-2008, 06:08 PM
The first part, you have me there. I didn't know that was all shared.

The second part, you're talking about yourself, not every single Sox fan. I'm sure there are Sox fans out there whose favorite player is Joe Crede and the presence of Joe Crede makes them more apt to go to a ballgame.

I never said anyone was putting a player ahead of a team, geez. Crede is I'm sure part of the reason some people come to the game, just like Thome or Konerko or anyone else. Just like people who check the starting rotation schedule and try to get tickets for games a certain pitcher is pitching. The Sox aren't just a faceless entity.
Comparing a starting pitcher to a third baseman who might get 4 at-bats per game and field 4 or 5 balls is like comparing apples to grenades.

If someone says they are going to USCF to see Crede play, they are either:
A: under the age of 11
B: a member of the Crede family
C: A Crede fanboy

When I go to USCF, it's to see the Sox play.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 06:17 PM
Comparing a starting pitcher to a third baseman who might get 4 at-bats per game and field 4 or 5 balls is like comparing apples to grenades.

If someone says they are going to USCF to see Crede play, they are either:
A: under the age of 11
B: a member of the Crede family
C: A Crede fanboy

When I go to USCF, it's to see the Sox play.
Ok but quick question how many female Sox fans are there because of how "cute" they thought Rowand, Pods and Crede were when they were making the run in 05'? I know a bunch. They watched and went to games to see them and now to see Joe. Now i'm not speaking for all the female fans but there are enough of them. There are alot of women who buy the pink line of clothing, they buy the women's apparel that, I might be wrong, has really multiplied in availability. As crazy as it sounds Joe not being here next season could cause the Sox to lose those currently casual fans who will spend money. I know it sounds crazy but there is still a market there.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 06:25 PM
Ok but quick question how many female Sox fans are there because of how "cute" they thought Rowand, Pods and Crede were when they were making the run in 05'? I know a bunch. They watched and went to games to see them and now to see Joe. Now i'm not speaking for all the female fans but there are enough of them. There are alot of women who buy the pink line of clothing, they buy the women's apparel that, I might be wrong, has really multiplied in availability. As crazy as it sounds Joe not being here next season could cause the Sox to lose those currently casual fans who will spend money. I know it sounds crazy but there is still a market there.
I'm dumber for having read that.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm dumber for having read that.
So your saying the physical appearance of some players has not drawn in female fans are spending at times more money than many than males? Your saying that that the physical appearance of some ball players have not impacted ticket sales where as a group of say 4-5 guys all of a sudden included a few women. Myself personally knows a handful of girls who never watched baseball, hated going to games and would bitch about it on TV. Now because they found their player that is cute to them they watch the games, they go to the games to see "Crede in his tight baseball pants", they buy the Podsednik tshirts and jerseys. Your crazy if you don't think it affects some attendance and revenue.

TomBradley72
04-28-2008, 06:46 PM
considering that 2B is the deepest position the Sox have in the organization outside of corner OF. They have Uribe, Ozuna, Ramirez, Getz, Richar and Bourgeois all at the MLB and AAA levels right now, plus Shelby, another 2B, is one of the organization's top 5 prospects if not higher.


Great example of confusing quantity with quality.

Tragg
04-28-2008, 06:52 PM
The O's are in rebuilding mode. No way they trade Roberts for just Fields straight up.

Roberts is 3 or 4 player deal trade bait.????The Orioles would do a dance and take Fields in a heartbeat.

The Sox need to stay far, far away from trading top prospects for .350 obp players with marginal power and a dubious history.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 06:53 PM
If KW offered Fields straight up for Roberts he would be stupid to do so considering that 2B is the deepest position the Sox have in the organization outside of corner OF. They have Uribe, Ozuna, Ramirez, Getz, Richar and Bourgeois all at the MLB and AAA levels right now, plus Shelby, another 2B, is one of the organization's top 5 prospects if not higher.

.
Ok out of this depth who are guys that are gonna make impacts? Uribe truly shouldn't be here, Pablo is a super-utility guy, Alexi ok but he is struggling, Richar maybe, if Getz and Bourgeois had any immediate quality potential why did we trade for Richar, resign Uribe and sign Alexi?

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 06:54 PM
????The Orioles would do a dance and take Fields in a heartbeat.

The Sox need to stay far, far away from trading top prospects for .350 obp players with marginal power and a dubious history.
I'm not so sure about that. I remember MCFail saying in the offseason that as much as they want quality they are looking for quanity.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 07:01 PM
So your saying the physical appearance of some players has not drawn in female fans are spending at times more money than many than males? Your saying that that the physical appearance of some ball players have not impacted ticket sales where as a group of say 4-5 guys all of a sudden included a few women. Myself personally knows a handful of girls who never watched baseball, hated going to games and would bitch about it on TV. Now because they found their player that is cute to them they watch the games, they go to the games to see "Crede in his tight baseball pants", they buy the Podsednik tshirts and jerseys. Your crazy if you don't think it affects some attendance and revenue.
I didn't realize Josh Fields = Joseph Merrick.

This team is full of guys that are attractive. You're crazy if you think a team should operate under the assumption that not keeping the "sexy" guys will hurt their revenue.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 07:06 PM
I didn't realize Josh Fields = Joseph Merrick.

This team is full of guys that are attractive. You're crazy if you think a team should operate under the assumption that not keeping the "sexy" guys will hurt their revenue.
I never said that. I'm just looking potential effects of not re-signing Joe Crede. Clutch hitter, top of the line defender, prime of his career, popular and revenue driving player and finally he is a home-grown talent. Who on this team is home-grown? I believe there is 4 on the team now. Crede, Wassermann, Logan and Anderson.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 07:07 PM
I never said that. I'm just looking potential effects of not re-signing Joe Crede. Clutch hitter, top of the line defender, prime of his career, popular and revenue driving player and finally he is a home-grown talent. Who on this team is home-grown? I believe there is 4 on the team now. Crede, Wassermann, Logan and Anderson.
And if you replace him with Fields you have a homegrown player...

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 07:14 PM
And if you replace him with Fields you have a homegrown player...
Why must we replace Crede with Fields? Why can't Fields like plenty of players before him become a 1B or DH? At this point how much of a difference offensively will it be between the 3? Lets say PK and Thome give us 35/100 and a .280 average. Your telling me playing 1550162 games a year Josh Fields won't give you the same production? So your saying why not replace Crede with Fields. Crede is in the prime of his career. He will give you 27-33 hrs 85-105 RBI's and bat in the 270-280 range. Then factor his abilities in the clutch and the fact he is the best defensive third basemen in the game and that makes him as valuable, if not more than PK or Thome to this franchise long term.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 07:15 PM
Why must we replace Crede with Fields? Why can't Fields like plenty of players before him become a 1B or DH? At this point how much of a difference offensively will it be between the 3? Lets say PK and Thome give us 35/100 and a .280 average. Your telling me playing 1550162 games a year Josh Fields won't give you the same production? So your saying why not replace Crede with Fields. Crede is in the prime of his career. He will give you 27-33 hrs 85-105 RBI's and bat in the 270-280 range. Then factor his abilities in the clutch and the fact he is the best defensive third basemen in the game and that makes him as valuable, if not more than PK or Thome to this franchise long term.
Stop throwing out numbers he's posted in his career year as the norm. It is clearly not.

Madvora
04-28-2008, 07:34 PM
If we make this trade before tonight's game is picked up again in June, then Roberts run will count for the Sox instead and we will have won the game.

getonbckthr
04-28-2008, 07:40 PM
If we make this trade before tonight's game is picked up again in June, then Roberts run will count for the Sox instead and we will have won the game.
??????

kittle42
04-28-2008, 07:52 PM
Since this thread already sucks...

So your saying the physical appearance of some players has not drawn in female fans are spending at times more money than many than males? Your saying that that the physical appearance of some ball players have not impacted ticket sales where as a group of say 4-5 guys all of a sudden included a few women. Myself personally knows a handful of girls who never watched baseball, hated going to games and would bitch about it on TV. Now because they found their player that is cute to them they watch the games, they go to the games to see "Crede in his tight baseball pants", they buy the Podsednik tshirts and jerseys. Your crazy if you don't think it affects some attendance and revenue.

One of the worst posts ever.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 08:30 PM
Crede missed most of the season last year and people didn't stay away because of it.

Attendance is tied to one thing. Winning. If we win, fans come. If we don't, they won't. You want to argue we're a worse team with Fields instead of Crede, fine. But to intimate that Crede is somehow the reason we get fans is preposterous.
Last year's attendance was still a holdover from the World Series of two years prior...
The fans identify with Crede and a few others...
He helps identify with the team.
He also handles himself well and is one of the most popular players ever with this franchise.
Season tix from a year ago were also purchased by fans who thought Crede would play all year. Your argument is moot.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 08:36 PM
Stop throwing out numbers he's posted in his career year as the norm. It is clearly not.
Just what kind of hitter do YOU think Crede is?
Are you thinking he's about a .260 hitter with about 15-20 homer and 65-75 RBI potential or what?
Put some numbers up.

munchman33
04-28-2008, 08:38 PM
Last year's attendance was still a holdover from the World Series of two years prior...
The fans identify with Crede and a few others...
He helps identify with the team.
He also handles himself well and is one of the most popular players ever with this franchise.
Season tix from a year ago were also purchased by fans who thought Crede would play all year. Your argument is moot.

I have NEVER once met a Sox fan who goes to the park for any individual player. Show me one. Because I don't really think you're talking about a Sox fan. Maybe a Cubs fan, or a Giants fan, but definately not a Sox fan. Sox fans don't do that. Sox fans are Sox fans first, not individual player fans.

The season ticket base from this year is still full of WS holdovers. The rest - holdovers from before then that aren't going away.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 08:42 PM
I have NEVER once met a Sox fan who goes to the park for any individual player. Show me one. Because I don't really think you're talking about a Sox fan. Maybe a Cubs fan, or a Giants fan, but definately not a Sox fan. Sox fans don't do that. Sox fans are Sox fans first, not individual player fans.

The season ticket base from this year is still full of WS holdovers. The rest - holdovers from before then that aren't going away.

Never did I say that Crede is one player that brings people in...
When Sox fans think of Crede, they think of one of their guys that brought them a World Series....
There isn't a doubt in my mind that he helps attendance...
I was initially pointing out that he would be worth the 5 years/$12 per that someone brought up.
Now if he hits .255 with 62 RBI and about 15 homers this season, I will take back that statement. But I have him around 30 HR, 100 RBI and about .280 with the best glove in either league.

munchman33
04-28-2008, 08:57 PM
Never did I say that Crede is one player that brings people in...
When Sox fans think of Crede, they think of one of their guys that brought them a World Series....
There isn't a doubt in my mind that he helps attendance...
I was initially pointing out that he would be worth the 5 years/$12 per that someone brought up.
Now if he hits .255 with 62 RBI and about 15 homers this season, I will take back that statement. But I have him around 30 HR, 100 RBI and about .280 with the best glove in either league.

I think you're silly if you believe Joe Crede has ANYTHING to do with attendance other than the fact that he's the guy currently playing third base for the white sox. Fans are coming either because they always do or because the team is good. Yes, Crede is a part of that, given he's a good player. But Josh Fields is also a good player (at least he showed he was last year). And if next year the only difference is Fields takes over for Crede, that isn't going to be what affects attendance. The only thing that really affects attendance for our team is it's play on the field. I dare you to find any evidence that suggests that's not true. Because you won't find any. It doesn't exist. Our team's attendance has never reflected individuals, payroll, et al. It's only ever reflected one thing. Winning and losing.

As for your idea about resigning Crede, if you think Crede is looking for a 5/$12 kind of deal, you've got another thing coming. He hired Scott Boras as his agent. Think big. Got that number? Okay, take it to the next level. That's a lot right? No way is he worth that! Now all you have to do is add three more years and a player option and he's all yours. Oh, and don't forget his opt out clause after the second and fourth years.

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 09:06 PM
I think you're silly if you believe Joe Crede has ANYTHING to do with attendance other than the fact that he's the guy currently playing third base for the white sox. Fans are coming either because they always do or because the team is good. Yes, Crede is a part of that, given he's a good player. But Josh Fields is also a good player (at least he showed he was last year). And if next year the only difference is Fields takes over for Crede, that isn't going to be what affects attendance. The only thing that really affects attendance for our team is it's play on the field. I dare you to find any evidence that suggests that's not true. Because you won't find any. It doesn't exist. Our team's attendance has never reflected individuals, payroll, et al. It's only ever reflected one thing. Winning and losing.

As for your idea about resigning Crede, if you think Crede is looking for a 5/$12 kind of deal, you've got another thing coming. He hired Scott Boras as his agent. Think big. Got that number? Okay, take it to the next level. That's a lot right? No way is he worth that! Now all you have to do is add three more years and a player option and he's all yours. Oh, and don't forget his opt out clause after the second and fourth years.

You come off so bitter over nothing...
I can't show you stats on what Crede means to attendance, but it would be about the same effect Buehrle and Konerko have.
Fans identify with some of these guys that brought them a title...
Again, what numbers do you think Crede will put up...
Also, what would be a fair offer to him and what do you think he'll sign for?

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 09:44 PM
I think .260/.310/.440 is a reasonable expectation.

santo=dorf
04-28-2008, 09:45 PM
I have NEVER once met a Sox fan who goes to the park for any individual player. Show me one. Because I don't really think you're talking about a Sox fan. Maybe a Cubs fan, or a Giants fan, but definately not a Sox fan. Sox fans don't do that. Sox fans are Sox fans first, not individual player fans.

The season ticket base from this year is still full of WS holdovers. The rest - holdovers from before then that aren't going away.
How about TimoPerez? (WSI poster who is a Mets fan)

NADA SURF
04-28-2008, 09:46 PM
I think .260/.310/.440 is a reasonable expectation.
How about RBI and how much money would you offer him?

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 09:48 PM
How about RBI and how much money would you offer him?
I don't care about RBI because it's a meaningless statistic.

3 years/$21-27 million max

Lip Man 1
04-28-2008, 09:48 PM
I'll try to answer your questions but first a point. I think some fans (as in very, very few...basically kids) will go to a game because of a particular player.

Again that's very, very, very few. Munchman's point about winning and losing is correct and the Sox historical attendance figures prove it. Last year may have been a fluke although as Brooks Boyer said in his WSI interview he hopes it wasn't and that Sox fans are changing. (I don't think that's the case but time will tell...)

Scott Boras will get someone to offer a great deal of money and a five year deal for Joe. IF he shows he's healthy. Consider that Magglio Ordonez had a bad knee, canceled his workout before interested clubs at the last minute, went to Austria to get an experimental procedure and STILL got a huge deal.

I can easily see 15 million per season. Good 3rd baseman are rare today.

Lip

santo=dorf
04-28-2008, 09:50 PM
How about RBI and how much money would you offer him?
80 RBI's and I tell him to enjoy San Fran with his buddy Rowand. The Giants have shown a strong willingness to overpay for mediocrity and/or questionable health statuses.
Good 3rd baseman are rare today.

Lip
I'd like to see your list of "good" third basemen.

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 09:52 PM
I'll try to answer your questions but first a point. I think some fans (as in very, very few...basically kids) will go to a game because of a particular player.

Again that's very, very, very few. Munchman's point about winning and losing is correct and the Sox historical attendance figures prove it. Last year may have been a fluke although as Brooks Boyer said in his WSI interview he hopes it wasn't and that Sox fans are changing. (I don't think that's the case but time will tell...)

Scott Boras will get someone to offer a great deal of money and a five year deal for Joe. IF he shows he's healthy. Consider that Magglio Ordonez had a bad knee, canceled his workout before interested clubs at the last minute, went to Austria to get an experimental procedure and STILL got a huge deal.

I can easily see 15 million per season. Good 3rd baseman are rare today.

Lip
:scratch:

Alex Rodriguez
David Wright
Chipper Jones
Mike Lowell
Aramis Ramirez
Evan Longoria
Ryan Zimmerman
Chad Tracy
Mark Reynolds
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Beltre
Garrett Atkins
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Hank Blalock
-----
It's a pretty fantastic position in MLB.

santo=dorf
04-28-2008, 09:55 PM
:scratch:

Alex Rodriguez
David Wright
Chipper Jones
Mike Lowell
Aramis Ramirez
Evan Longoria
Ryan Zimmerman
Chad Tracy
Mark Reynolds
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Beltre
Garrett Atkins
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Hank Blalock
-----
It's a pretty fantastic position in MLB.
Damnit, you took the fun out of it. :mad:

Eric Chavez, Scott Rolen, and Troy Glaus are still in the league and although they are a shell of their formerselves, they were still good third basemen within the last few years.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2008, 09:57 PM
Ah yes Craig with his complete, authoritative , "know it all" answer. The man who knows everything there is to know about baseball (and isn't shy about letting you know that he "knows...") LOL

I stand corrected Craig, Joe is garbage, can't play worth a damn.

Of those players on your list one is no longer playing 3rd (Cabrera), two are kids with absolutely no track record (Longoria and Kouzmanoff) so we have absolutely no idea what they'll do, and two (Lowell and Jones) will be retired in three years or less.

And how many of those guys can field as well as Crede?

I stand corrected on one thing, I should have said COMPLETE 3rd baseman who can hit AND field. So I apologize to you, your highness.

Lip

Craig Grebeck
04-28-2008, 10:04 PM
Ah yes Craig with his complete, authoritative , "know it all" answer. The man who knows everything there is to know about baseball (and isn't shy about letting you know that he "knows...") LOL

I stand corrected Craig, Joe is garbage, can't play worth a damn.

Of those players on your list one is no longer playing 3rd (Cabrera), two are kids with absolutely no track record (Longoria and Kouzmanoff) so we have absolutely no idea what they'll do, and two (Lowell and Jones) will be retired in three years or less.

And how many of those guys can field as well as Crede?

I stand corrected on one thing, I should have said COMPLETE 3rd baseman who can hit AND field. So I apologize to you, your highness.

Lip
Thanks for the personal attack.

Cabrera is no longer playing 3rd, out of necessity. He'd be a third baseman on a lot of teams.

Kouzmanoff played in the majors all of last season, so I'm quite sure he has a track record. Longoria is pretty god damn amazing -- he doesn't need a track record. He's top 10 third baseman right now.

Lowell just signed a three-year deal, I'm sure his career will outlast this contract. Jones is 36 and leads MLB in OPS, I'm sure he'll be around longer as well.

Zimmerman, Lowell, Chavez (whom I forgot to list -- thanks Santo), Ramirez, Wright, Beltre are all pretty great defensively. How many guys on the list can Joe hit like?

santo=dorf
04-28-2008, 10:08 PM
Using Lip's standards the only "good" third basemen in the league are Joe Crede, Adrian Beltre, Zimmerman, Pedro Feliz, and Brandon Inge....but I'm guessing they still aren't in the same league as the third basemen back in the 60's.

I wouldn't mind having the Tigers' new third baseman play third for us. We almost had him for Jose Valentin. :(:

btrain929
04-28-2008, 10:15 PM
Just my personal opinion, but if we entertain the idea of trading Fields (if we somehow resign Crede), I'd prefer it to be for a battle-proven young MLB starter. Maybe somewhat similar to the Delmon Young/Matt Garza trade. Young and proven like Chad Billingsley, Cain, or Lincecum, even though the chances of acquiring them are -50% (negative fifty percent....yeah, i said it).

Bottom line, someone similar to them, doesn't have to be them in particular. Either way, nothing is happening anytime soon (Crede extension, Fields traded, other teams trading young pitching, etc).

TomBradley72
04-29-2008, 12:14 AM
I don't believe any significant revenue can really be connected to a single player. BUT I do believe that it is important for a franchise to have some players that are home grown and spend nearly all their careers with the franchise. It's important for fans to believe it's POSSIBLE that players will stay around.

During the Reinsdorf era...I've seen McDowell, Ventura, Fernandez, Baines, Ordonez, Lee, Thomas...all leave at some point...many just at point they were entering FA. Alot of these moves made sense from a big picture standpoint...but I do think when you find a player who's among the best at his position and is a fan favorite, there's alot of value in keeping him on the team.

I hope we keep Crede. In 37 years of following this team, the examples of "career" White Sox who were developed in our minor league system is virtually non-existent. Plus, while Fields will probably be a better hitter than Crede, I don't think he'll eve match his glove. I've seen the positive impact Joe's defense has had on the team, and I think it's important for our success in 2009-2012, etc.

If we can move either Konerko or Thome (w/Fields backfilling one or the other) after this season and use the money to retain Joe...that's the direction I'd take.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2008, 12:56 AM
Dorf:

I know that none of today's third basemen could make a pimple on Brooks Robinson's rear end if that helps you.

Feel free to return to your statistical calculations, Pythagorean theorems and pontifications anytime you wish and I'm sure you will.

Lip

chaerulez
04-29-2008, 04:03 AM
This .280/30/100 stuff is pretty funny. He hit 30 HRs once in his career. Never has had a 100 RBI season. His career batting average is .259.

Crede is one of my favorite players. Yet we are a team on a fixed income, not like the Cubs or Red Sox or Yankees. That means having Josh Fields on the cheap for the next few years hitting 35 or more HRs is a very good investment for the team. I agree with people who say we could move PK or Thome instead. That works, assuming we offer Crede a 4 year deal at max (which I assume KW won't budge, if he wouldn't give Rowand the 5th year, I can't picture him or the logic behind giving Crede the 5th year).

MISoxfan
04-29-2008, 04:53 AM
I clearly said if he hits .280 with 30 home runs this season. If thats the case he will deservedly get a lot of money on the market this season. It would be .280/30 for his previous 2 injury-free seasons.

If he doesn't hit like that again, then he won't demand that kind of money.

I love how you laugh at some people for calling Crede a .280/30/100 guy and you think Fields is a lock for 35 hrs OR MORE per year.:rolleyes:

santo=dorf
04-29-2008, 05:16 AM
Dorf:

I know that none of today's third basemen could make a pimple on Brooks Robinson's rear end if that helps you.

Feel free to return to your statistical calculations, Pythagorean theorems and pontifications anytime you wish and I'm sure you will.

Lip
Wow, really Lip? Not even Alex Rodriguez, who will go down in baseball as the greatest player ever?

How slow is the news feed out there in Idaho? Did they just report A-Rod hitting his 400th career home run? He's 32 years old and has 522 home runs. He's an on base machine who steals around 20 bases a year. There's no complex math to that at all.

santo=dorf
04-29-2008, 05:21 AM
I love how you laugh at some people for calling Crede a .280/30/100 guy and you think Fields is a lock for 35 hrs OR MORE per year.:rolleyes:
Josh Fields in his rookie year: 23 HR's in 373 at-bats. That's not a stretch at all to say he'll probably hit 35 home runs.

As mention before, in his 6 years at the big league level, Crede only hit .280 twice (.283 in 2006 and .285 in 2005 in 200 at-bats,) only hit 30 home runs once (30 home runs in 2006, nothing close before that,) and has never driven in 100 runs (94 RBI in 2006, nothing remotely close before that.)

Calling Joe Crede a ".280/30/100" guy is about equivalent to calling Esteban Loaiza a 20 win, 3 ERA, 215 IP type of guy. See why you are getting laughed at?

ondafarm
04-29-2008, 08:11 AM
Dorf:

I know that none of today's third basemen could make a pimple on Brooks Robinson's rear end if that helps you.

Feel free to return to your statistical calculations, Pythagorean theorems and pontifications anytime you wish and I'm sure you will.

Lip

Best third baseman I ever saw, even if only briefly as a kid. My dad took me to a Sox-Orioles game just to see the man play. Never seen his equal, although I've seen a) a lot of better hitting 3B b) a lot of other guys who played in that position.

My opinion is that Crede is the equal defenisvely of any third baseman playing today and a wide margin better than most.

NADA SURF
04-29-2008, 02:04 PM
I don't care about RBI because it's a meaningless statistic.

3 years/$21-27 million max
You have a different opinion of Crede than I do...
Crede just turned 30 and should have the next 2-4 years of his prime coming up...
I don't know how you can say RBI is a meaningless stat.
I also wish (and maybe there is one) a percentage-based stat of how many runs were driven in over how many runners were in scoring position.
I'd bet Crede's percentage would be quite high and Konerko's quite low.
Also, Crede might be as good a glove as Brooks Robinson and I'm old enough to remember Brooks. The runs he'll save in the field will add up.

EndemicSox
04-29-2008, 02:15 PM
If Konerko/Thome are entering the "old man" part of their respective careers...just move Fields to 1B/DH and be done with it...it's inevitable anyway,imo...as long as Crede isn't asking for top 5 3B money, which he probably is, he can man the hot corner for the next 5 years...

getonbckthr
04-29-2008, 05:48 PM
I'm lazy. Can someone look up since Crede has been brought up what the Sox record is with and without Crede in the lineup.

kittle42
04-29-2008, 06:07 PM
I'm lazy. Can someone look up since Crede has been brought up what the Sox record is with and without Crede in the lineup.

And what exactly will that prove? That the Sox win a higher percentage of the time when their starting 3B is playing 3B instead of, say, Pablo Ozuna?

getonbckthr
04-29-2008, 08:11 PM
And what exactly will that prove? That the Sox win a higher percentage of the time when their starting 3B is playing 3B instead of, say, Pablo Ozuna?
Its just people are so willing to let Crede go.

spiffie
04-29-2008, 08:55 PM
I'm lazy. Can someone look up since Crede has been brought up what the Sox record is with and without Crede in the lineup.
Do you think its as high as the Sox record with Carl Everett in the lineup?

kittle42
04-29-2008, 09:21 PM
Do you think its as high as the Sox record with Carl Everett in the lineup?

Excellent retort.

MISoxfan
04-29-2008, 09:52 PM
Josh Fields in his rookie year: 23 HR's in 373 at-bats. That's not a stretch at all to say he'll probably hit 35 home runs.

As mention before, in his 6 years at the big league level, Crede only hit .280 twice (.283 in 2006 and .285 in 2005 in 200 at-bats,) only hit 30 home runs once (30 home runs in 2006, nothing close before that,) and has never driven in 100 runs (94 RBI in 2006, nothing remotely close before that.)

Calling Joe Crede a ".280/30/100" guy is about equivalent to calling Esteban Loaiza a 20 win, 3 ERA, 215 IP type of guy. See why you are getting laughed at?

Please show me where I called him a .280/30/100 guy.

Actually even point out where I even mentioned 100 RBI's at all. Please show me this, otherwise continue to look like a clown.

And its a FAR FAR bigger stretch to call Josh Fields a 35 HR guy than it is to call Joe Crede a 30 HR guy considering only one of those has actually happened.

santo=dorf
04-29-2008, 09:58 PM
Please show me where I called him a .280/30/100 guy.

Actually even point out where I even mentioned 100 RBI's at all. Please show me this, otherwise continue to look like a clown.

And its a FAR FAR bigger stretch to call Josh Fields a 35 HR guy than it is to call Joe Crede a 30 HR guy considering only one of those has actually happened.
I didn't mean to direct towards you, I wanted to direct towards the "some people" that you mentioned in your post. So I should've said "see why we're laughing at them?" (early morning post, needed more coffee :gulp:)

MISoxfan
04-29-2008, 10:11 PM
Okay well I agree that it would be a stretch to call him that unless he shows he can do it again.

I just think its a stretch to expect Fields to hit as well as Konerko too.

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 02:30 AM
And what exactly will that prove? That the Sox win a higher percentage of the time when their starting 3B is playing 3B instead of, say, Pablo Ozuna?
The Sox seem to be a different team with Crede in there...That guy made a good point. I don't see yours.

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 02:31 AM
Excellent retort.
Weak retort intended for humor.
Everett isn't on the team (at least not yet).
Crede is.

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 02:32 AM
Okay well I agree that it would be a stretch to call him that unless he shows he can do it again.

I just think its a stretch to expect Fields to hit as well as Konerko too.

There will never be a season once Fields is up there regularly when Konerko out hits Fields.

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 02:40 AM
This .280/30/100 stuff is pretty funny. He hit 30 HRs once in his career. Never has had a 100 RBI season. His career batting average is .259.

Crede is one of my favorite players. Yet we are a team on a fixed income, not like the Cubs or Red Sox or Yankees. That means having Josh Fields on the cheap for the next few years hitting 35 or more HRs is a very good investment for the team. I agree with people who say we could move PK or Thome instead. That works, assuming we offer Crede a 4 year deal at max (which I assume KW won't budge, if he wouldn't give Rowand the 5th year, I can't picture him or the logic behind giving Crede the 5th year).
I Nada Surf declare that Joe Crede will hit .280 with 30 HR and 100 RBI this season. You can take it to the bank.

MISoxfan
04-30-2008, 06:01 AM
Crede probably will hit 30 HR's this season, maybe more. And Konerko is only 33 if Fields is up here next season Konerko will still be a better hitter.

kittle42
04-30-2008, 11:37 AM
I Nada Surf declare that Joe Crede will hit .280 with 30 HR and 100 RBI this season. You can take it to the bank.

Will that include his NL stats?

kittle42
04-30-2008, 11:37 AM
The Sox seem to be a different team with Crede in there...That guy made a good point. I don't see yours.

Look a little harder.

santo=dorf
04-30-2008, 11:38 AM
The Sox seem to be a different team with Crede in there...That guy made a good point. I don't see yours.
You're right, usually when Crede's in the best lineup is out there. When Crede isn't playing third usually Ramirez or Anderson is in center and Hall is catching. Think that has a factor on team record too?

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 02:10 PM
Look a little harder.
I still don't see it....

NADA SURF
04-30-2008, 02:12 PM
Crede probably will hit 30 HR's this season, maybe more. And Konerko is only 33 if Fields is up here next season Konerko will still be a better hitter.
If I knew you, I'd be glad to take your money.

TheVulture
05-04-2008, 11:20 PM
Stolen bases = the least important aspect of offensive performance.
Perhaps, but speed is not.

TheVulture
05-04-2008, 11:21 PM
And Konerko is only 33 if Fields is up here next season Konerko will still be a better hitter.

If Konerko's performance depends on Josh Fields, Paulie is in some serious trouble.

TheVulture
05-04-2008, 11:29 PM
In 37 years of following this team, the examples of "career" White Sox who were developed in our minor league system is virtually non-existent.

In the last 37 years, guys like that are virtually non-existent in the major leagues! It's rare to have a guy like Frank on a team for 16 years for any team.

MISoxfan
05-05-2008, 07:37 AM
If Konerko's performance depends on Josh Fields, Paulie is in some serious trouble.

It doesn't. I can see how you think I was saying that if you were to read that as one isolated post and not part of a conversation. However, taken in context I believe that the intended message was clear. And that message is this; Paul Konerko will be still be a better hitter than Josh Fields next season.

sullythered
05-05-2008, 11:16 AM
There will never be a season once Fields is up there regularly when Konerko out hits Fields.

What?!? :?:

Josh Fields has never even had a year in the minors that compares to most of Paul Konerko's MAJOR LEAGUE years. It isn't a sure thing that Fields will even ever be a consistent major league player. Paul Konerko is, statistically and otherwise, one of the top few White Sox power hitters of all time.

France
05-05-2008, 08:01 PM
I'm starting to think I should of made this a "Trade Crede for Roberts" thread. Crede has not been that solid this year down at the corner.

JayBeast
05-08-2008, 12:51 PM
Well, I understand they need a SS, and we need 2B, so if we want their 2B we need to fill both spots & maybe maybe more.

Alexei Ramirez, Juan Uribe & Charlie Haeger
for,
Brian Roberts

If that dosnt do it, get Andy Mcphail drunk & throw in some cash.

:gulp:

Droso5
05-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Well, I understand they need a SS, and we need 2B, so if we want their 2B we need to fill both spots & maybe maybe more.

Alexei Ramirez, Juan Uribe & Charlie Haeger
for,
Brian Roberts

If that dosnt do it, get Andy Mcphail drunk & throw in some cash.

:gulp:

Keep Haeger! All he needs is some "magic time" with Cooper and he will be a Cy Young for sure! We should also have Coop work with Crede and Hall on their fielding, swing as well as crafting them a better outlook on life as a whole! Coop can fix 'em!

ondafarm
05-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Okay, I'm not taking the fall for reactivating this thread.

Optipessimism
05-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Which is better? Peanut butter and chocolate or PB & jam?

Who is more magic? David Blaine, Criss Angel, Harry Potter, or Magic Johnson?

Tacos, burritos, enchiladas, quesadillas, sopes, or other?

When you cook potato dishes other than mashed potatoes, do you generally peel them or leave the skin on?

And finally, when you see motorists with bumper stickers that say "Honk if you..." do you honk?

And one more: if you could be stranded on a desert island with any current member of the Chicago Bulls, which player would it be and why? Personally, I'd go with Joakim Noah because he could reach the coconuts easier and his detemination and grittiness would help somewhere, also it would help that he's skinny and probably wouldn't eat as much as other Bulls players.

dwalteroo
05-09-2008, 08:52 AM
Which is better? Peanut butter and chocolate or PB & jam?

Who is more magic? David Blaine, Criss Angel, Harry Potter, or Magic Johnson?

Tacos, burritos, enchiladas, quesadillas, sopes, or other?

When you cook potato dishes other than mashed potatoes, do you generally peel them or leave the skin on?

And finally, when you see motorists with bumper stickers that say "Honk if you..." do you honk?

And one more: if you could be stranded on a desert island with any current member of the Chicago Bulls, which player would it be and why? Personally, I'd go with Joakim Noah because he could reach the coconuts easier and his detemination and grittiness would help somewhere, also it would help that he's skinny and probably wouldn't eat as much as other Bulls players.

:rolling: Well done.

NADA SURF
05-12-2008, 02:17 PM
Stolen bases = the least important aspect of offensive performance.A great stolen base guy at the top of the order can wreak havoc on the pitcher and make your second and third hitters much better? Remember what Podsednik did in '05?
Speed throughout the order can manufacture runs and add a run or two in tight games, like about 15 Sox games already this year when the Sox kept trying to loft the ball over the fences and getting nothing in return...
Pitching, speed and defense would still win in today's baseball. It's a heckuva lot more exciting, too.

Craig Grebeck
05-12-2008, 04:15 PM
A great stolen base guy at the top of the order can wreak havoc on the pitcher and make your second and third hitters much better? Remember what Podsednik did in '05?
Speed throughout the order can manufacture runs and add a run or two in tight games, like about 15 Sox games already this year when the Sox kept trying to loft the ball over the fences and getting nothing in return...
Pitching, speed and defense would still win in today's baseball. It's a heckuva lot more exciting, too.
I see nothing but anecdotal evidence. Prove your statements.

Domeshot17
05-12-2008, 04:45 PM
I see nothing but anecdotal evidence. Prove your statements.

Huh? You make an opinionated claim that offensively, stolen bases are the least important stat. He then comes back with an opinion that guys like Figgins Pods Tavares all put pressure on a pitcher by making them throw more fastballs or rush their deliveries, or even just loose some focus because they worry about the runner, and you want him to back it up with facts. Why don't you do the same.

Here is the truth. A Stolen base can turn a single into a double essentially when you talk lead off hitter. Either way you look at it, if you steal a base you have either scored or have to be in scoring position. More runs score from scoring position then from 1st. That is a fact. Not every stolen base leads to a run, but some do.

And since you want to make games out of little opinionated statements, ill counter with this

I think intentional walks are less meaningful then Stolen Bases.

Craig Grebeck
05-12-2008, 05:07 PM
Huh? You make an opinionated claim that offensively, stolen bases are the least important stat. He then comes back with an opinion that guys like Figgins Pods Tavares all put pressure on a pitcher by making them throw more fastballs or rush their deliveries, or even just loose some focus because they worry about the runner, and you want him to back it up with facts. Why don't you do the same.

Here is the truth. A Stolen base can turn a single into a double essentially when you talk lead off hitter. Either way you look at it, if you steal a base you have either scored or have to be in scoring position. More runs score from scoring position then from 1st. That is a fact. Not every stolen base leads to a run, but some do.

And since you want to make games out of little opinionated statements, ill counter with this

I think intentional walks are less meaningful then Stolen Bases.

In terms of stolen bases vs. avenues of reaching base (i.e. what my original statement pertained to), there is no doubt that stolen bases are the least important. It was in terms of offensive performance -- and there's no doubt that hits + walks >>>>>>>> stolen bases.

There are people here who would rather have someone who steals 50 bases instead of 50 home runs.

WhiteSox5187
05-12-2008, 06:30 PM
In terms of stolen bases vs. avenues of reaching base (i.e. what my original statement pertained to), there is no doubt that stolen bases are the least important. It was in terms of offensive performance -- and there's no doubt that hits + walks >>>>>>>> stolen bases.

There are people here who would rather have someone who steals 50 bases instead of 50 home runs.
Right but when you have three guys in the lineup who are capable of hitting forty (four if Swish winds up turning it around, who knows what Quentin might be able to do and Crede could hit thirty) yet only ONE person who MIGHT be capable of stealing twenty bases, what do you think this team needs right now? A guy capable of hitting fifty homeruns or someone who could steal fifty stolen bases? Right now I think it's blatantly apparent that we need speed a hell of a lot more than we need a guy who can hit 50 HRs and clog up the bases.

Frater Perdurabo
05-12-2008, 06:36 PM
Right but when you have three guys in the lineup who are capable of hitting forty (four if Swish winds up turning it around, who knows what Quentin might be able to do and Crede could hit thirty) yet only ONE person who MIGHT be capable of stealing twenty bases, what do you think this team needs right now? A guy capable of hitting fifty homeruns or someone who could steal fifty stolen bases? Right now I think it's blatantly apparent that we need speed a hell of a lot more than we need a guy who can hit 50 HRs and clog up the bases.

I agree. The 2004 Sox dealt something they had in abundance - power - for something they lacked - speed. The result was an opportunistic offense that could both hit homers and could manufacture runs when the homers were not flying.

The 2008 Sox have a similar abundance of power and would be wise to try to deal some of it for some speed.

Personally, I'd like a team with nine slick fielders who all hit .285, steal 20 bags and hit 20 HRs.

Daver
05-12-2008, 07:00 PM
In terms of stolen bases vs. avenues of reaching base (i.e. what my original statement pertained to), there is no doubt that stolen bases are the least important. It was in terms of offensive performance -- and there's no doubt that hits + walks >>>>>>>> stolen bases.

There are people here who would rather have someone who steals 50 bases instead of 50 home runs.

Guess what? This ain't fantasy baseball.

A guy that can steal fifty bases changes a pitcher and catcher's approach to the game, a guy that hits fifty homeruns just gets walked.

This isn't rocket surgery.

kittle42
05-12-2008, 07:31 PM
Guess what? This ain't fantasy baseball.

A guy that can steal fifty bases changes a pitcher and catcher's approach to the game, a guy that hits fifty homeruns just gets walked.

This isn't rocket surgery.

C'mon, Daver - you can't just punt the SB category in fantasy ball! :D:

NADA SURF
05-14-2008, 09:06 PM
I see nothing but anecdotal evidence. Prove your statements.
I watched the 2005 Sox along with other teams with speed in their lineups and I see how they can mess up pitchers, let alone get into scoring position something this group of hitters the Sox have will never be able to do...
The Sox could have won 4-5 more games this year moving a runner into scoring position or having a guy that can actually steal a base...
If you're asking me to geek up some stats on here like OPS, PMS, NRA, NBA or whatever it is you guys always post on here, I would never attempt to...Those stats are for guys that never played...
The only key stats are wins-losses; RBI, SB, batting average along with hitting with runners in scoring position and moving runners into scoring position...

NADA SURF
05-14-2008, 09:37 PM
In terms of stolen bases vs. avenues of reaching base (i.e. what my original statement pertained to), there is no doubt that stolen bases are the least important. It was in terms of offensive performance -- and there's no doubt that hits + walks >>>>>>>> stolen bases.

There are people here who would rather have someone who steals 50 bases instead of 50 home runs.
EVERYBODY would take 50 homers over 50 steals.

NADA SURF
05-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Right but when you have three guys in the lineup who are capable of hitting forty (four if Swish winds up turning it around, who knows what Quentin might be able to do and Crede could hit thirty) yet only ONE person who MIGHT be capable of stealing twenty bases, what do you think this team needs right now? A guy capable of hitting fifty homeruns or someone who could steal fifty stolen bases? Right now I think it's blatantly apparent that we need speed a hell of a lot more than we need a guy who can hit 50 HRs and clog up the bases.
Who are these guys on the Sox that are capable of hitting 40 homers?

WhiteSox5187
05-15-2008, 12:00 AM
Who are these guys on the Sox that are capable of hitting 40 homers?
Thome, Konerko and Dye have all done it before...I believe that Swisher has hit 35 in a pitcher's park...so really you might only have three guys capable of hitting forty plus with an additional three (Crede, Swisher and Quentin) capable of hitting 30. But I think we only have one guy capable of stealing more than twenty bags and that's Cabrera.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 01:58 PM
Thome, Konerko and Dye have all done it before...I believe that Swisher has hit 35 in a pitcher's park...so really you might only have three guys capable of hitting forty plus with an additional three (Crede, Swisher and Quentin) capable of hitting 30. But I think we only have one guy capable of stealing more than twenty bags and that's Cabrera.The only guy capable of hitting 40 homers in this organization again is in Class AAA and should be up here now.

kittle42
05-15-2008, 02:55 PM
The only guy capable of hitting 40 homers in this organization again is in Class AAA and should be up here now.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=4755

Fields never has had a season in the minors which would have translated to 40 HRs over the course of 600 ABs, especially not this season.

Of course, Juan Pierre is more valuable than Fields, because he makes good outs.

Daver
05-15-2008, 03:00 PM
The only guy capable of hitting 40 homers in this organization again is in Class AAA and should be up here now.

Do you even follow this team, or do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:08 PM
Do you even follow this team, or do you just make this stuff up as you go along?Sorry to make ya look bad on here..I follow this team and saw what Fields did in the majors last year in his first season in the bigs...
Did you see him or did you take last season off?

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:09 PM
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=4755

Fields never has had a season in the minors which would have translated to 40 HRs over the course of 600 ABs, especially not this season.

Of course, Juan Pierre is more valuable than Fields, because he makes good outs.You can go ahead and judge Fields by what he did in the minors...I'll go ahead and judge him by what he did in the MAJORS last season, his first season.

Daver
05-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Sorry to make ya look bad on here..I follow this team and saw what Fields did in the majors last year in his first season in the bigs...
Did you see him or did you take last season off?

You're the fool that wants to call up a minor leaguer that is on the DL, not me.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:16 PM
You're the fool that wants to call up a minor leaguer that is on the DL, not me.You're allowed to call people fools on here?
Can ya turn yourself in to yourself again for me?
Like I said, I didn't realize Fields was on the DL. I had a busy week at work.
Don't be angry...That was a SPECTACULAR catch on your part and I for one am really proud of you!
I deeply apologize to anyone who might have been in shock that I wanted an injured Fields up with the Sox. Then again, an injured Fields might be better than a healthy Konerko.

Daver
05-15-2008, 03:20 PM
You're allowed to call people fools on here?


Sometimes the truth hurts.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:33 PM
Sometimes the truth hurts.Should we call you "The Truth" on here?
I believe in the two negatives equals a positive motto when you called me a fool so keep 'em coming.
Lemme guess, you don't talk to people in person like that, do ya?

Daver
05-15-2008, 03:36 PM
Lemme guess, you don't talk to people in person like that, do ya?

It's much worse in person, you can actually hear the tone of complete disdain in my voice.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:37 PM
It's much worse in person, you can actually hear the tone of complete disdain in my voice.OK...sometimes the truth hurts...

ondafarm
05-15-2008, 03:38 PM
Should we call you "The Truth" on here?
I believe in the two negatives equals a positive motto when you called me a fool so keep 'em coming.
Lemme guess, you don't talk to people in person like that, do ya?

Nada, I believe Daver is going easy on you. On the other hand, even his pathos is not inexhaustible.

While I have in the past advocated bringing Fields up, he is on the DL write now and hence, by rule, cannot join the big league club, at least not officially.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:43 PM
Nada, I believe Daver is going easy on you. On the other hand, even his pathos is not inexhaustible.

While I have in the past advocated bringing Fields up, he is on the DL write now and hence, by rule, cannot join the big league club, at least not officially.
He'd better pull out his 'A' game, doncha think?
Like I said, I didn't know Fields was on the DL because I've been very busy this past week...
I applaud you all for knowing this info!
Let's bring up whoever is playing in Fields' place to replace Konerko.
Anybody but Konerko.

Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2008, 03:43 PM
Nada, I believe Daver is going easy on you. On the other hand, even his pathos is not inexhaustible.

Yes, he hasn't even yet threatened to duel you at 20 paces with an elephant gun.

Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2008, 03:44 PM
Let's bring up whoever is playing in Fields' place to replace Konerko. Anybody but Konerko.

Gosh, you're so far over the line in your Paulie hate, that I sound like a FOGIDPK in comparison! :tongue:

Rocky Soprano
05-15-2008, 03:45 PM
He'd better pull out his 'A' game, doncha think?
Like I said, I didn't know Fields was on the DL because I've been very busy this past week...
I applaud you all for knowing this info!
Let's bring up whoever is playing in Fields' place to replace Konerko.
Anybody but Konerko.

You would think that someone that is argumentative and so determined to make a point would actually know what he is talking about.

Daver
05-15-2008, 03:46 PM
You would think that someone that is argumentative and so determined to make a point would actually know what he is talking about.

That requires to much work.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:49 PM
That requires to much work.
Too.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:52 PM
You would think that someone that is argumentative and so determined to make a point would actually know what he is talking about. From now on, I will not accept gigs that bring me lots of money within a week or two and pay total attention to the plight of the White Sox at all times.
I give you that Nada Surf promise with my hand on the 2008 White Sox media guide...
I know how many of you look up to me on here and I will continue to bring you the best I have...
Thanks for waking me up, Rock, with your poignant comment!
I look forward to your articulate posts in the future!

Daver
05-15-2008, 03:52 PM
Too.

I can go through posts and point out typos too, I hope you feel all warm and tingly now for getting that monster shot in.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 03:54 PM
I can go through posts and point out typos too, I hope you feel all warm and tingly now for getting that monster shot in.But I've been feeling warm and spongy on here for a while now and I'm happy to help on here...
Ya sure that was a typo?

Rocky Soprano
05-15-2008, 04:02 PM
From now on, I will not accept gigs that bring me lots of money within a week or two and pay total attention to the plight of the White Sox at all times.
I give you that Nada Surf promise with my hand on the 2008 White Sox media guide...
I know how many of you look up to me on here and I will continue to bring you the best I have...
Thanks for waking me up, Rock, with your poignant comment!
I look forward to your articulate posts in the future!

Many of us here, if not all, can't "pay total attention." My only point is, if you are bent on making a stance on something, make sure your case is solid.
Simply: Think before you post.

Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2008, 04:05 PM
From now on, I will not accept gigs that bring me lots of money within a week or two and pay total attention to the plight of the White Sox at all times.
I give you that Nada Surf promise with my hand on the 2008 White Sox media guide...
I know how many of you look up to me on here and I will continue to bring you the best I have...
Thanks for waking me up, Rock, with your poignant comment!
I look forward to your articulate posts in the future!

Great schtick! :redneck

kittle42
05-15-2008, 04:12 PM
From now on, I will not accept gigs that bring me lots of money within a week or two and pay total attention to the plight of the White Sox at all times.
I give you that Nada Surf promise with my hand on the 2008 White Sox media guide...
I know how many of you look up to me on here and I will continue to bring you the best I have...
Thanks for waking me up, Rock, with your poignant comment!
I look forward to your articulate posts in the future!

Are you now inserting braggadocio into your otherwise stellar insights?

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 04:17 PM
Many of us here, if not all, can't "pay total attention." My only point is, if you are bent on making a stance on something, make sure your case is solid.
Simply: Think before you post.I really don't see where I am not making my point.
If I remember right, the question here was weather Paulie should go on the DL cuz of his hand and I said yes since he's sucked for a long long time now...
I said, yes and said Fields should be brought up, not realize he was on the DL...
The main point I made is that YES, PK needs to go on the DL or somewhere that he's not in the lineup as much as he is now.

spiffie
05-15-2008, 04:17 PM
Are you now inserting braggadocio into your otherwise stellar insights?
His apartment smells of rich mahogany and he has many leather bound books.

kobo
05-15-2008, 04:18 PM
You can go ahead and judge Fields by what he did in the minors...I'll go ahead and judge him by what he did in the MAJORS last season, his first season.
The season where he didn't hit 40 home runs?

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 04:19 PM
Are you now inserting braggadocio into your otherwise stellar insights?Well, if working hard for one or two weeks and not being able to watch everything the Sox have done is braggadocio, then so be it.
You're not jealous of me as Daver is, are you?

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 04:21 PM
The season where he didn't hit 40 home runs?Great point!
I really thought Fields would have hit 40 homers in those 373 at bats the Sox gave him in his rookie season but he failed miserably with only 23...
I am starting to see why you all think he sucks on here.
Again, my oversite.

Daver
05-15-2008, 04:24 PM
Well, if working hard for one or two weeks and not being able to watch everything the Sox have done is braggadocio, then so be it.
You're not jealous of me as Daver is, are you?

Your delusions of grandeur are so pathetic they are hysterical.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 04:24 PM
His apartment smells of rich mahogany and he has many leather bound books.
I own a condo and not rent an apartment...
That smell of leather is from something else and for other use.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 04:26 PM
Your delusions of grandeur are so pathetic they are hysterical.I think you have something mistaken here...
There is no granduer to working your butt off all week covering sporting events, I can assure you that...
I felt like the taxman on April 14th.

kobo
05-15-2008, 04:40 PM
Great point!
I really thought Fields would have hit 40 homers in those 373 at bats the Sox gave him in his rookie season but he failed miserably with only 23...
I am starting to see why you all think he sucks on here.
Again, my oversite.
I didn't say he sucked. You said he could hit 40 HR. He hit 23 in 373 AB, which does not equate to 40 in 600 AB.

voodoochile
05-15-2008, 04:44 PM
His apartment smells of rich mahogany and he has many leather bound books.

He used to play high school baseball, quite well...

:bundy
"give 'em hell, nada..."

kittle42
05-15-2008, 04:49 PM
I didn't say he sucked. You said he could hit 40 HR. He hit 23 in 373 AB, which does not equate to 40 in 600 AB.

You're right. It's 37. And seeing as he never came close to that type of HR production in the minors, I'll stand by my non-40 homers prediction.

Also, I am certainly not saying he sucks, but Fields is a butcher in the field, and Ks a lot (even in the minors). He does possess a little speed, so I guess he has that over Thome/Konerko and co.

It's amazing to me that some people pre-season, in the Crede v. Fields talk, were hailing him as the future of the team, when in fact he'd pretty much fit right in with Dye/Thome/Konerko/Crede.

Ryan Braun, he ain't. He isn't even TCQ.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 10:05 PM
He used to play high school baseball, quite well...

:bundy
"give 'em hell, nada..."I played in college, too.

NADA SURF
05-15-2008, 10:07 PM
You're right. It's 37. And seeing as he never came close to that type of HR production in the minors, I'll stand by my non-40 homers prediction.

Also, I am certainly not saying he sucks, but Fields is a butcher in the field, and Ks a lot (even in the minors). He does possess a little speed, so I guess he has that over Thome/Konerko and co.

It's amazing to me that some people pre-season, in the Crede v. Fields talk, were hailing him as the future of the team, when in fact he'd pretty much fit right in with Dye/Thome/Konerko/Crede.

Ryan Braun, he ain't. He isn't even TCQ.Fields will be a much better hitter than Konerko, Dye, Quentin and Crede and will be an all-star for many years...
He'll be about as good as Ryan Braun...
And yes, I don't want him at 3b. I want him at 1B or DH.

Craig Grebeck
05-15-2008, 10:30 PM
Fields will be a much better hitter than Konerko, Dye, Quentin and Crede and will be an all-star for many years...
He'll be about as good as Ryan Braun...
And yes, I don't want him at 3b. I want him at 1B or DH.
What is this based on? He's been decent to good in the minors, and loses offensive value when you move him to a different position. He's more Shea Hillenbrand than any of those players.

Rocky Soprano
05-15-2008, 10:44 PM
You're right. It's 37. And seeing as he never came close to that type of HR production in the minors, I'll stand by my non-40 homers prediction.

Also, I am certainly not saying he sucks, but Fields is a butcher in the field, and Ks a lot (even in the minors). He does possess a little speed, so I guess he has that over Thome/Konerko and co.

It's amazing to me that some people pre-season, in the Crede v. Fields talk, were hailing him as the future of the team, when in fact he'd pretty much fit right in with Dye/Thome/Konerko/Crede.

Ryan Braun, he ain't. He isn't even TCQ.

You are now my hero. Great post. :gulp:

kittle42
05-16-2008, 12:50 AM
Fields will be a much better hitter than Konerko, Dye, Quentin and Crede and will be an all-star for many years...
He'll be about as good as Ryan Braun...
And yes, I don't want him at 3b. I want him at 1B or DH.

Based on what? I am not outright dismissing your statement. I just want some argument in support.

Edit: Oops. Just noticed your know-it-all, more-condescending-than-kittle42 posts got you banned. Guess I'll have to wait awhile to hear the reasoning behind your prediction.

Nellie_Fox
05-16-2008, 01:06 AM
Based on what? I am not outright dismissing your statement. I just want some argument in support.

Edit: Oops. Just noticed your know-it-all, more-condescending-than-kittle42 posts got you banned. Guess I'll have to wait awhile to hear the reasoning behind your prediction.Don't hang around waiting for his return.You'll get very tired.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2008, 05:53 AM
more-condescending-than-kittle42

:roflmao:

I love self-deprecating senses of humor!

kittle42
05-16-2008, 09:52 AM
:roflmao:

I love self-deprecating senses of humor!

Hey, I fully admit how I come off on these boards...I'm actually a pretty fun guy!

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2008, 11:23 AM
Hey, I fully admit how I come off on these boards...I'm actually a pretty fun guy!

I believe it; I'd like to have a beer or three with you. :redneck

kittle42
05-16-2008, 11:26 AM
I believe it; I'd like to have a beer or three with you. :redneck

Three? That'll take about 30 minutes. Whgat will we do with the rest of the evening? :)

spiffie
05-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Three? That'll take about 30 minutes. Whgat will we do with the rest of the evening? :)
You can regale us with tales of Bill Banks.

kittle42
05-16-2008, 02:30 PM
You can regale us with tales of Bill Banks.

Ha!