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Nellie_Fox
04-27-2008, 12:33 AM
MLB has to ban these things before someone gets seriously injured. Several times per game we get exploding bats, with the pointed shards flying at the fielders trying to field the ball.

Apparently MLB wants to ban them and go back to the ash bats that crack but pretty much stay in one piece and don't shatter, but the Players' Association claims it has to be collectively bargained.

MUsoxfan
04-27-2008, 12:38 AM
As a guy that's never hit with a wood bat, what's the difference between the types of wood? Does the maple have a better sweet spot or something?

TheOldRoman
04-27-2008, 12:53 AM
As a guy that's never hit with a wood bat, what's the difference between the types of wood? Does the maple have a better sweet spot or something?Maple is harder, so you can supposedly hit the ball farther with it. However, it is much more brittle.

WhiteSox5187
04-27-2008, 02:56 AM
Maple is harder, so you can supposedly hit the ball farther with it. However, it is much more brittle.
Exactly...the PA won't want to move on this because a lot of players like them, but eventually someone is going to wind up getting very badly hurt or God forbid, killed. It's just too dangerous.

DumpJerry
04-27-2008, 07:38 AM
For safety's sake, MLB should adopt the Mark Prior approach and play simulated games.

I programmed my computer to play a simulated season last night and guess what........the White Sox won the World Series!:D:

UofCSoxFan
04-27-2008, 07:04 PM
Maple is harder, so you can supposedly hit the ball farther with it. However, it is much more brittle.

Awhile ago Hawk was talking about how the next "new" thing may be birch. It supposedly is as hard as maple but goes thorugh a similar treatment process to ash so is a bit more durable.

Its kind of ironic discussing how dangerous wood bats are getting since that was the hot debate a few years ago (and still is) with metal bats.

UofCSoxFan
04-27-2008, 07:05 PM
For safety's sake, MLB should adopt the Mark Prior approach and play simulated games.

I programmed my computer to play a simulated season last night and guess what........the White Sox won the World Series!:D:

You must have used a different simulaton program than all the experts. :D:

Elephant
04-27-2008, 07:06 PM
Use Brazilian walnut. That's harder'n a black steer's toukas.

doublem23
04-27-2008, 07:11 PM
Its kind of ironic discussing how dangerous wood bats are getting since that was the hot debate a few years ago (and still is) with metal bats.

Maple wood bats are just dangerous because they explode, but aluminum bats would literally kill someone. Remember Matt Clement, when he got nailed? He probably would be missing a head if that was a metal bat.

Daver
04-27-2008, 07:16 PM
Maple wood bats are just dangerous because they explode, but aluminum bats would literally kill someone. Remember Matt Clement, when he got nailed? He probably would be missing a head if that was a metal bat.

You can make an aluminum bat that won't hit any harder than a wood bat, and will never break, but it is five times the cost of a wood bat and will become out of round and useless over the course of a season.

TheOldRoman
04-27-2008, 07:24 PM
You can make an aluminum bat that won't hit any harder than a wood bat, and will never break, but it is five times the cost of a wood bat and will become out of round and useless over the course of a season.Not only that, but the aluminum bats are marketed to be more powerful. They all advertise that they contain a particular element which allows you to hit the ball XX % farther. All metal bats could be made to hit like wood, but the manufacturers don't want it that way. It is is all about technology and innovation. You will have to buy a new wooden bat every so often because it will break. Unless you are playing every day, aluminum bats will last a long, long time. They make it so you have to drop another $300 every couple of years so nobody else had an advantage on you.

doublem23
04-27-2008, 08:20 PM
Not only that, but the aluminum bats are marketed to be more powerful. They all advertise that they contain a particular element which allows you to hit the ball XX % farther. All metal bats could be made to hit like wood, but the manufacturers don't want it that way. It is is all about technology and innovation. You will have to buy a new wooden bat every so often because it will break. Unless you are playing every day, aluminum bats will last a long, long time. They make it so you have to drop another $300 every couple of years so nobody else had an advantage on you.

Whatever. Metal bats are so T-ball.

Soxfanspcu11
04-27-2008, 08:30 PM
Whatever. Metal bats are so T-ball.


True. But it was fun when Frank Thomas used to use an aluminum bat during BP back in the day. It was quite the show!!! I once saw him, no joke, hit a ball that went OVER where the present day Fan Deck is at!! At the time, it was just the batter's eye in center with the camera area above it. The ball went OVER that and hit the bottom of the Center Field Scoreboard!!! :o: It was INSANE!!!!!

But of course, as we all know, MLB made him stop because they thought he would hurt someone. I guess I can see their concern (lawsuits) but it kinda sucked because he used to put on a SHOW.

As far as Maple Bats go, I bought a few online a few years back to play ball with Me and My friends. This may not seem possible, but I COMPLETELY SHATTERED one of them during the Summer of 2006. How did I shatter it you ask? By hitting a tennis ball! Yes, that's right, I shattered a Maple Bat when I hit a friggin TENNIS BALL!!

I would like to think that it happened due to My MASSIVE MAN MUSCLES but I don't think that was the case!:D:

Noneck
04-27-2008, 08:44 PM
You can make an aluminum bat that won't hit any harder than a wood bat, and will never break, but it is five times the cost of a wood bat and will become out of round and useless over the course of a season.

I've been around awhile and change is not always good. I don't like canned music at the ballpark, organ music is what baseball is all about. Nothing can beat the sound of hickory(I guess maple now) hitting the horse hide. Sounds do matter, Las Vegas is not the same to me since slots don't spit coins these days. Please. No aluminum bats in major league baseball ever.

UofCSoxFan
04-27-2008, 09:23 PM
Maple wood bats are just dangerous because they explode, but aluminum bats would literally kill someone. Remember Matt Clement, when he got nailed? He probably would be missing a head if that was a metal bat.

This fact is not lost on me...thanks. I was just stating that even wood bats have there perrils...baseball is a dangerous game. Maybe not as bad as football or hockey but people can get hurt.

And if you wanted to eliminate broken bats altogether, you can get a Baum bat or another composite and it will last for years. I don't see MLB every going to this but virtually industructable WOOD bats that behave EXACTLY like normal wood bats already exist.

It would make too much sense for high schools and college to use these (not to mention it would make the transition to the pro game a lot quicker) but Louisville Slugger and Easton, who offer far superior products in the metal bat category to the competion, would fight this to the end. At the same time, kids want to hit homeuns so they would resist the change as well.

The reason metal bats were introduced in the first place was that they didn't break. It wasn't til relatively recently, with the introduction of the Easton Redline and the TPX Air Attack that these bats started performing a lot differently than wood.

UofCSoxFan
04-27-2008, 09:29 PM
True. But it was fun when Frank Thomas used to use an aluminum bat during BP back in the day. It was quite the show!!! I once saw him, no joke, hit a ball that went OVER where the present day Fan Deck is at!! At the time, it was just the batter's eye in center with the camera area above it. The ball went OVER that and hit the bottom of the Center Field Scoreboard!!! :o: It was INSANE!!!!!

But of course, as we all know, MLB made him stop because they thought he would hurt someone. I guess I can see their concern (lawsuits) but it kinda sucked because he used to put on a SHOW.

As far as Maple Bats go, I bought a few online a few years back to play ball with Me and My friends. This may not seem possible, but I COMPLETELY SHATTERED one of them during the Summer of 2006. How did I shatter it you ask? By hitting a tennis ball! Yes, that's right, I shattered a Maple Bat when I hit a friggin TENNIS BALL!!

I would like to think that it happened due to My MASSIVE MAN MUSCLES but I don't think that was the case!:D:

This must have been a site to see. This reminds me of my senior year in high school when Scott Stahoviak, a former first baseman for the Twins for six years or so, came back to be our hitting coach (he graduated from my high school in the late 80s/early 90s). One practice he started taking soft toss from home plate with a metal bat and was hitting balls 400 feet. Since it was soft toss he was generating nearly all the power. Stahoviak was a doubles hitter in MLB who had been out of the game for a few years. I can only imagine what Frank Thomas, in his prime, against batting practice pitching, could do.

Daver
04-27-2008, 09:30 PM
Use Brazilian walnut. That's harder'n a black steer's toukas.

It is also around fifty bucks a board foot when you do the math. No one is paying over a thousand dollars for a bat.

Vernam
04-27-2008, 09:33 PM
Not only that, but the aluminum bats are marketed to be more powerful. They all advertise that they contain a particular element which allows you to hit the ball XX % farther. All metal bats could be made to hit like wood, but the manufacturers don't want it that way. It is is all about technology and innovation. You will have to buy a new wooden bat every so often because it will break. Unless you are playing every day, aluminum bats will last a long, long time. They make it so you have to drop another $300 every couple of years so nobody else had an advantage on you.Yep, and it's especially sick for youth baseball. The aluminum bat industry seems modeled after the golf equipment industry, where players seek technological advantages -- either to overcome deficiencies in their skills or just to keep up with the Joneses.

Major difference: There's no 15-year-old kid standing in the fairway 60 feet, 6 inches from the teebox. :angry:

Vernam

GBORN
04-27-2008, 09:36 PM
It is also around fifty bucks a board foot when you do the math. No one is paying over a thousand dollars for a bat.

And of course we've learned from Hawk, that maple bats are $63

twentywontowin
04-27-2008, 10:09 PM
True. But it was fun when Frank Thomas used to use an aluminum bat during BP back in the day. It was quite the show!!! I once saw him, no joke, hit a ball that went OVER where the present day Fan Deck is at!! At the time, it was just the batter's eye in center with the camera area above it. The ball went OVER that and hit the bottom of the Center Field Scoreboard!!! :o: It was INSANE!!!!!



I saw Thomas take BP before with an aluminum bat. Remember where the ad board was where Fundamentals is now? He was drilling him off that like it was his day job. I'm pretty sure he put a couple out of the park as well by hitting them through the gaps between the boards.

As for wood bats, birch would indeed be a good alternative.

France
04-27-2008, 10:23 PM
Why not use tree of heaven for bats? I have never understood maple:scratch:

Nellie_Fox
04-28-2008, 01:10 AM
Nothing can beat the sound of hickory(I guess maple now) hitting the horse hide.I doubt that you've every heard the sound of hickory on horsehide. Very few players used hickory "back in the day" and none have in my lifetime, because hickory is HEAVY. Not to mention that the baseball has been made of cowhide since 1974.

White Ash was the standard for a long time; Hillerich and Bradsby had whole tree farms of White Ash just to make bats from. The maple thing is fairly recent.

ja1022
04-28-2008, 08:08 AM
Very few players used hickory "back in the day" and none have in my lifetime, because hickory is HEAVY.

There is actually a bat manufacturer named Old Hickory Bat Company. The only problem with the name is the bats are made of rock maple or white ash. So there is no hickory from Old Hickory.

I believe the main advantage to maple is durability. Players are superstitious, and hate to break a hot bat and maple lasts longer. If the ball really went farther, every player would use it. There is also a different feel on contact between maple and birch. Ash gives more "feedback" to the hands.

viagracat
04-28-2008, 08:16 AM
White Ash was the standard for a long time; Hillerich and Bradsby had whole tree farms of White Ash just to make bats from. The maple thing is fairly recent.

You know how hard it is to find a good piece of ash these days? :cool:

Noneck
04-28-2008, 09:01 AM
I doubt that you've every heard the sound of hickory on horsehide. Very few players used hickory "back in the day" and none have in my lifetime, because hickory is HEAVY. Not to mention that the baseball has been made of cowhide since 1974.

White Ash was the standard for a long time; Hillerich and Bradsby had whole tree farms of White Ash just to make bats from. The maple thing is fairly recent.

It was a metaphoric statement, tho I have heard the sound of hickory hitting horsehide but not during a major league game, that I am aware of.

esbrechtel
04-28-2008, 09:50 AM
You know how hard it is to find a good piece of ash these days? :cool:
:roflmao:

Luke
04-28-2008, 10:04 AM
There is actually a bat manufacturer named Old Hickory Bat Company. The only problem with the name is the bats are made of rock maple or white ash. So there is no hickory from Old Hickory.

I believe the main advantage to maple is durability. Players are superstitious, and hate to break a hot bat and maple lasts longer. If the ball really went farther, every player would use it. There is also a different feel on contact between maple and birch. Ash gives more "feedback" to the hands.

Ash has a more pronounced trampoline effect than Maple. Maple is a harder wood and supposed to last longer. I've never used Birch, but it's supposed to be a compromise between the two, both in effect and in price.

I've never used Birch, but I was doing some research a couple months back and found a company that will turn a Birch or Hickory bat.The Hickory seemed pretty dense...I think they were only offered in -2 drops. No -3. I'm really sorry I can't remember the name.

H&B has a a composite type wood bat, that is supposed to be a little more durable, geared at the HS and College level players. I think there's a growing metal bat backlash that sprouted a few years ago when a lot of college players got criticized for struggling to adapt to wood bats in once they reached the pros. Since then a lot more wood bat leagues have popped up.

soxfan21
04-28-2008, 10:59 AM
What about using bamboo bats? I've seen these sold through baseball warehouse and they say that these bats are made for extended bat life. I don't know if bamboo is harder that maple or ash, but when they do get busted I don't think that they would shatter the way that maple bats do.

Nellie_Fox
04-28-2008, 11:02 AM
H&B has a a composite type wood bat, that is supposed to be a little more durable, geared at the HS and College level players. I think there's a growing metal bat backlash that sprouted a few years ago when a lot of college players got criticized for struggling to adapt to wood bats in once they reached the pros. Since then a lot more wood bat leagues have popped up.North Dakota has gone back to wooden bats for high-school competition. As far as I know, they're the only state dropping aluminum bats.

Luke
04-28-2008, 11:31 AM
North Dakota has gone back to wooden bats for high-school competition. As far as I know, they're the only state dropping aluminum bats.

I know there's been talk in other states, I hear NYC might have done that too. The problem a lot of schools have is that replacing game quality wood bats gets expensive. So many schools are budget constrained on baseball, that they have little choice, but to go aluminum. I know there's been some fall, wood bat leagues around here, and I think the Midwest Suburban League (don't quote me on that) has a wood bat level for the summer...Not as competitive as the North Woods league, but geared at players that want to move on to the next level.

What about using bamboo bats? I've seen these sold through baseball warehouse and they say that these bats are made for extended bat life. I don't know if bamboo is harder that maple or ash, but when they do get busted I don't think that they would shatter the way that maple bats do.

No they wouldn't shatter like maple. The problem is, they're illegal in almost any league. Wood bats have to come from a solid piece of wood, Bamboo however is pressed together, so its really essentially a laminate, and doesn't conform. Environmentally friendly? Yes, but not legal.

fquaye149
04-28-2008, 12:02 PM
Maple wood bats are just dangerous because they explode, but aluminum bats would literally kill someone. Remember Matt Clement, when he got nailed? He probably would be missing a head if that was a metal bat.


All evidence available suggests that aluminum bats are no more dangerous.

THe problem with aluminum is a bigger sweet spot, not faster rebounds

http://www.playballmn.com/topic.aspx?id=7

fquaye149
04-28-2008, 12:05 PM
It is also around fifty bucks a board foot when you do the math. No one is paying over a thousand dollars for a bat.

:payrod:?

It's Dankerific
04-28-2008, 12:51 PM
All evidence available suggests that aluminum bats are no more dangerous.

THe problem with aluminum is a bigger sweet spot, not faster rebounds

http://www.playballmn.com/topic.aspx?id=7

Wow, all the people with a vested interest in not having liability for use of an aluminum bat. That convinces me!!

Maybe we can get Alcoa to sponsor a follow up study.

fquaye149
04-28-2008, 03:43 PM
Wow, all the people with a vested interest in not having liability for use of an aluminum bat. That convinces me!!

Maybe we can get Alcoa to sponsor a follow up study.

Did you even read that site, or did you just look at the website's host and decide "hey I don't have to read all this scientific information, I'll just make a smartass comment that shows how lazy and ignorant I have decided to be"?

That's a rhetorical question.


For instance, can you please tell me how this fact

PERCEPTION: Balls come off aluminum bats faster than wood.
Since 2003, all bats are required to meet the “Bat Exit Speed Ratio” (BESR) performance limitation, which ensures that aluminum bats do not hit the ball any harder than the best wood bats.has anything to do with who sponsors that website?



That is also a rhetorical question.



:rolleyes:

doublem23
04-28-2008, 03:55 PM
All evidence available suggests that aluminum bats are no more dangerous.

THe problem with aluminum is a bigger sweet spot, not faster rebounds

http://www.playballmn.com/topic.aspx?id=7

I stand corrected.