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Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:22 PM
This should be fun.

thomas35forever
04-23-2008, 11:23 PM
That sucked. Gotta avoid the sweep tomorrow.

I was supposed to go the game tonight, but the Stevenson was backed up due to gapers. Guess I was lucky not to be there.

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:25 PM
This team may not win another 50-60 games this year. They are just way too flawed. Javy Vazquez isn't a legitimate starter (as evidenced by tonight's effort) and this offense just flat out sucks. I want to burn my jerseys.

Foulke You
04-23-2008, 11:25 PM
At least the team made the effort to come back tonight. As soon as Rivera got in the ballgame though, you just knew the fun was over.

My goodness are the Yanks swinging the magic wand against us this series. I'm having 2002/2003 Minnesota Twins flashbacks with all the infield hits and gorkshots that are falling in for them. To their credit, the Yanks are capitalizing on all of their opportunities. When was the last time we won a series against NYY at home? It has to be more than a few years now.

southsideirish71
04-23-2008, 11:26 PM
Spot low and away, repeat, walk away with a Cy Young experience. This is how you beat this team.

I love the majestic home run cuts we had in this game. Those were pretty. Meanwhile, the Yanks were going oppo and beating the crap out of us.

JB98
04-23-2008, 11:26 PM
At least the team made the effort to come back tonight. As soon as Rivera got in the ballgame though, you just knew the fun was over.

My goodness are the Yanks swinging the magic wand against us this series. I'm having 2002/2003 Minnesota Twins flashbacks with all the infield hits and gorkshots that are falling in for them. To their credit, the Yanks are capitalizing on all of their opportunities. When was the last time we won a series against NYY at home? It has to be more than a few years now.

This definitely feels like 2003.

I think we won two of three from the Yankees at home in August 2006. I'd have to look it up though.

LoveYourSuit
04-23-2008, 11:26 PM
Just a bad game from the offense to the SP.


Yesterday's game was a back breaker and hurt but this one was just us being bad.

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:28 PM
At least the team made the effort to come back tonight. As soon as Rivera got in the ballgame though, you just knew the fun was over.

My goodness are the Yanks swinging the magic wand against us this series. I'm having 2002/2003 Minnesota Twins flashbacks with all the infield hits and gorkshots that are falling in for them. To their credit, the Yanks are capitalizing on all of their opportunities. When was the last time we won a series against NYY at home? It has to be more than a few years now.
I agree...very weird. Just get the win tomorrow and start putting the wood to the O's, Twins, and Toronto.

Tragg
04-23-2008, 11:28 PM
Spot low and away, repeat, walk away with a Cy Young experience. This is how you beat this team.

That certainly was the story tonight and in the Tampa loss.
Well this year they improved their walking; maybe next year they can do something about the homerun cuts when they do swing.

WhiteSox5187
04-23-2008, 11:28 PM
I for one am very unnerved that we are starting to play like horse **** right as the Tigers seem to have found their bats. This sorta play had better end RIGHT NOW. Because right now we look like the '07 team. And I hate to alarm any one but right now we have about the same record as we had at this time last year. I am by no means convinced that this team is for real.

LoveYourSuit
04-23-2008, 11:29 PM
This should be fun.


Why do you guys always make comments like this?

What is so "fun" about discussing a Sox loss?

Foulke You
04-23-2008, 11:30 PM
Spot low and away, repeat, walk away with a Cy Young experience. This is how you beat this team.

I love the majestic home run cuts we had in this game. Those were pretty. Meanwhile, the Yanks were going oppo and beating the crap out of us.
Yep, as soon as I saw how S*L*O*W Mussina was throwing and working in this game, I had a feeling we were in trouble. Soft tossers have historically given the Sox fits and today was no different. Hopefully it will be a different story tomorrow against Hughes and we can salvage the finale. I REALLY hate losing to the Yankees, especially at home.:mad:

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:30 PM
Why do you guys always make comments like this?

What is so "fun" about discussing a Sox loss?
I'm sorry I didn't put it in teal to make the sarcasm blatantly obvious. I promise I'll do better next time.

xoxoxoxox-
Jarrett

southsideirish71
04-23-2008, 11:32 PM
Yep, as soon as I saw how S*L*O*W Mussina was throwing and working in this game, I had a feeling we were in trouble. Soft tossers have historically given the Sox fits and today was no different. Hopefully it will be a different story tomorrow against Hughes and we can salvage the finale. I REALLY hate losing to the Yankees, especially at home.:mad:

The park factor plays into our guys mind too much. We hit fine away from the Cell. The minute we come back, the guys go back into launch mode.

If they hit and try to hit line drives instead of majestic home runs. Watching tonight you could see he long looping swings trying to hit the ball 900 feet instead of making good solid contact. This is a pattern that we have seen over the years.

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:32 PM
Yep, as soon as I saw how S*L*O*W Mussina was throwing and working in this game, I had a feeling we were in trouble. Soft tossers have historically given the Sox fits and today was no different. Hopefully it will be a different story tomorrow against Hughes and we can salvage the finale. I REALLY hate losing to the Yankees, especially at home.:mad:
See, I remember the Sox always beating up Moyer and Mussina. I'd like to see the numbers on that. They always knocked Wakefield around, too.
I'm with you about the dread I felt when Mussina started getting that curve into the strike zone. After he did that, things were pretty much doomed.

SluggersAway
04-23-2008, 11:32 PM
Why do you guys always make comments like this?

What is so "fun" about discussing a Sox loss?

Uhhh, maybe it is to see the sad desperation of all those on the ledge ready to call the season over before the end of April.

RockJock07
04-23-2008, 11:33 PM
I wish the offense would beat up on bad pitchers, what happened to Konerko? He's been pretty bad overall this season. Crappy game overall, I guess the bullpen pitched well today but other then that bad game.

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:33 PM
Uhhh, maybe it is to see the sad desperation of all those on the ledge ready to call the season over before the end of April.
Yeah, that too.

mwc44
04-23-2008, 11:34 PM
http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1556089354128&id=a95dd8f4fbc35e16f2f332fb87d8b4c0"The sun will come out tomorrow... bet your bottom dollar..."

kevingrt
04-23-2008, 11:35 PM
Flat out ugly all around.

About as ugly as Mariano's cutter.

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:35 PM
I wish the offense would beat up on bad pitchers, what happened to Konerko? He's been pretty bad overall this season. Crappy game overall, I guess the bullpen pitched well today but other then that bad game.
If Ozzie pulled a Jerry Manuel and said "Once Konerko gets hot, this team could go on a streak and win a lot of games", I would stop watching baseball for 10 years.

whitesoxwilkes
04-23-2008, 11:37 PM
Left in the top of the 8th.

The biggest highlight was the kid in the front row of my section who threw up all over himself TWICE and just sat there afterwards. Hysterical.

Second biggest highlight was the 4 cougars next section over with the "Our husbands think we're at a PTA meeting" sign.

Nothing remarkable on the field aside from CQ and Crede.

LoveYourSuit
04-23-2008, 11:37 PM
It's starts with pitching and offense and neither showed up tonight except for a little flare of life there at the end.


I never imagined me thinking this way or agreeing with Hawk's stupidism, but Jerry Owens might be needed here to lead off for speed and slap ability to get on base.

I don't think Jerry Owens is that good but he might be the closest guy we will have at the end of the year to hit near .300.


And the Uribe liability factor at the 9 hole is once again in effect because of too many guys being streaky and in slumps. Only problem is that Pablo and Ramirez are not 150 game solutions right now. Richar?

oeo
04-23-2008, 11:38 PM
Left in the top of the 8th.

The biggest highlight was the kid in the front row of my section who threw up all over himself TWICE and just sat there afterwards. Hysterical.

I know Javy was bad, but geez...

LoveYourSuit
04-23-2008, 11:40 PM
Left in the top of the 8th.

The biggest highlight was the kid in the front row of my section who threw up all over himself TWICE and just sat there afterwards. Hysterical.

.


I just fell of my chair laughing. ***, did he not realize what happened? Did it not stink enough for them to call for a cleanup?

What kind of parents are those.

TheOldRoman
04-23-2008, 11:40 PM
That certainly was the story tonight and in the Tampa loss.
Well this year they improved their walking; maybe next year they can do something about the homerun cuts when they do swing.Are you kidding? The homerun cuts will NOT be addressed. In fact, I am pretty sure Walker would tell you the reason the offense slumps is because too many guys are taking walks and not swinging for the fences.:D:

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/05/08/pQrqXxIk.jpg
"Every time you hit the ball to the opposite field you get 50 push-ups."

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:41 PM
It's starts with pitching and offense and neither showed up tonight except for a little flare of life there at the end.


I never imagined me thinking this way or agreeing with Hawk's stupidism, but Jerry Owens might be needed here to lead off for speed and slap ability to get on base.

I don't think Jerry Owens is that good but he might be the closest guy we will have at the end of the year to hit near .300.


And the Uribe liability factor at the 9 hole is once again in effect because of too many guys being streaky and in slumps. Only problem is that Pablo and Ramirez are not 150 game solutions right now. Richar?
Leadoff hitters are supposed to set the table by getting on base. Look at Swisher's OBP. Okay...seen it? Good.

Now, the speed thing. We get it. Things were awesome when the Sox had Podsednik doing his thing for a handful of months in '05 (before groin problems screwed him up for the second half of the season and the next two). Owens isn't the answer here.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2008, 11:43 PM
This team is very frustrating to watch when they can't hit a baseball, and worse, they apparently refuse to change their style to try to.


Lip

LoveYourSuit
04-23-2008, 11:43 PM
Well, It only took 3 weeks + for the "Fire Greg Walker" machine to crank up. I think this guy should have been gone last all star break.

I don't understand what he brings to the table .

Foulke You
04-23-2008, 11:44 PM
The park factor plays into our guys mind too much. We hit fine away from the Cell. The minute we come back, the guys go back into launch mode.

If they hit and try to hit line drives instead of majestic home runs. Watching tonight you could see he long looping swings trying to hit the ball 900 feet instead of making good solid contact. This is a pattern that we have seen over the years.
You might be on to a developing pattern here. We are now 4W-5L at home vs 7W-5L on the road. We've been a good home team pre-2007 so hopefully this trend will improve as the new players get used to playing here. Swisher definitely seems to have better games on the road so far but this is a really small sample size.

Jurr
04-23-2008, 11:44 PM
Are you kidding? The homerun cuts will NOT be addressed. In fact, I am pretty sure Walker would tell you the reason the offense slumps is because too many guys are taking walks and not swinging for the fences.:D:

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/05/08/pQrqXxIk.jpg
"Every time you hit the ball to the opposite field you get 50 push-ups."
Seriously. This offense has been well served this season by going up the middle. The first ****ing moment they get homer happy, things get bad. The steroid era is over fellas...time to adapt a little.

southsideirish71
04-23-2008, 11:44 PM
Are you kidding? The homerun cuts will NOT be addressed. In fact, I am pretty sure Walker would tell you the reason the offense slumps is because too many guys are taking walks and not swinging for the fences.:D:

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/05/08/pQrqXxIk.jpg
"Every time you hit the ball to the opposite field you get 50 push-ups."

Walker last year on the Score said you could tell if a team was trying to hit home runs because their home run total would go up and their BA would be near the bottom. He used that as an example of why in 07 they werent a pull only team. Then in the offseason he says, yeah they were too pull happy. Here we are again, no bad weather, no perfect storm and we are 13th in the league in BA. The only saving grace for the O so far is the walks. This team better get a better handle on how to stop with long launch cuts or we will be back to last years offense all year long.

kittle42
04-23-2008, 11:46 PM
Uhhh, maybe it is to see the sad desperation of all those on the ledge ready to call the season over before the end of April.

There should be no overreaction, but this is more what I am expecting the season to be like than the first two weeks were, only because that's what I was expecting at the start of the season.

JB98
04-23-2008, 11:46 PM
Sox record in day games: 8-1
Sox record in night games: 3-8

That's another weird trend.

Foulke You
04-23-2008, 11:48 PM
See, I remember the Sox always beating up Moyer and Mussina. I'd like to see the numbers on that. They always knocked Wakefield around, too.
I'm with you about the dread I felt when Mussina started getting that curve into the strike zone. After he did that, things were pretty much doomed.
You're correct, we have roughed up Mussina in the past but the 2008 Mussina was throwing a lot slower than the "Moose" of old. The Mussina of old would pop the glove around 92 with regularity. Tonight, I don't think he clocked anything above 86-87 mph. Good call on Moyer though. He is certainly a slow thrower that we've hit well in the past.

cheezheadsoxfan
04-23-2008, 11:48 PM
It still feels like we played the Twins. Gotta salvage one tomorrow.

WhiteSox5187
04-23-2008, 11:51 PM
This team reminds me a lot of the '04 team, we'll hit a lot of HRs, but we're soooo ****ing slow. Granted I'm not sure speed would help us any, but Jesus we're slow.

southsideirish71
04-23-2008, 11:54 PM
You're correct, we have roughed up Mussina in the past but the 2008 Mussina was throwing a lot slower than the "Moose" of old. The Mussina of old would pop the glove around 92 with regularity. Tonight, I don't think he clocked anything above 86-87 mph. Good call on Moyer though. He is certainly a slow thrower that we've hit well in the past.

Our guys see that slow weak stuff and they think its soft ball hit it as hard as you can. Pulling pitches low and away, and trying to deposit them over the fence on a soft tosser is not going to work. You will get warning track power, a lot of ground outs to the left side, and the occasional pop up to the first baseman. The only game where I saw this team hit oppo or up the middle the whole night is when they came back against CC. They respected him as a pitcher and didnt try to much. Against the Cy Mays, 39 year old Mussinas, and other soft tossers they see slow pitch and try to cruch slow pitch. The Yanks beat Javy by going back up the middle and oppo. We don't adapt. We keep lifting and pulling.

LoveYourSuit
04-23-2008, 11:54 PM
Leadoff hitters are supposed to set the table by getting on base. Look at Swisher's OBP. Okay...seen it? Good.

Now, the speed thing. We get it. Things were awesome when the Sox had Podsednik doing his thing for a handful of months in '05 (before groin problems screwed him up for the second half of the season and the next two). Owens isn't the answer here.


I was on the same boat with you, but there are just no singles hitters on this team and ZERO speed.

There is just something awfully wrong with the flow of your offense lately.

Tonight's game and Saturday left me scratching my head.

peeonwrigley
04-23-2008, 11:58 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/05/08/pQrqXxIk.jpg
"Every time you hit the ball to the opposite field you get 50 push-ups."

Now that's funny.

southsideirish71
04-23-2008, 11:59 PM
I was on the same boat with you, but there are just no singles hitters on this team and ZERO speed.

There is just something awfully wrong with the flow of your offense lately.

Tonight's game and Saturday left me scratching my head.

It has nothing to do with speed. Its called a nice level line drive swing by our non power guys. This teams offense will start to move when our guys start to concentrate on level swings, and stop with the manual elevation swing. When this team hits gap to gap then the offense is clicking. This park plays small enough, you dont need to "try" to hit a homer here. Thats the thing. If they drive the ball, with a level swing. The ball will either roll to the gap, or it will fly over the fence.

whitesoxwilkes
04-24-2008, 12:11 AM
I just fell of my chair laughing. ***, did he not realize what happened? Did it not stink enough for them to call for a cleanup?

What kind of parents are those.

He wasn't like a little kid, he was probably around 22 or so. Just ripped off his ass. His buddies ditched him after he puked and then came back just after he did it the second time with a couple girls in tow. It was hysterical.

Everyone else in the row moved over or back. I don't recall anyone from guest services coming down with a mop.

HomeFish
04-24-2008, 12:17 AM
They're the Yankees, we're the White Sox. They will beat us. It's just the natural order of things.

LoveYourSuit
04-24-2008, 12:24 AM
He wasn't like a little kid, he was probably around 22 or so. Just ripped off his ass. His buddies ditched him after he puked and then came back just after he did it the second time with a couple girls in tow. It was hysterical.

Everyone else in the row moved over or back. I don't recall anyone from guest services coming down with a mop.


I pictued like this little fat 12 year old filling himself with nachos, kosher dogs, pizza and then letting it all lose. And then just sitting there watching the game.


But still seeing a grown up (22) not holding in their liquor, that is very hysterical.

LoveYourSuit
04-24-2008, 12:26 AM
They're the Yankees, we're the White Sox. They will beat us. It's just the natural order of things.


So just stay home tomorrow?

:scratch:

I don't get your post, teal maybe?

Noneck
04-24-2008, 12:27 AM
They're the Yankees, we're the White Sox. They will beat us. It's just the natural order of things.

You are correct and it seems as tho I have gone to bed with a knot in stomach after the Sox play the yanks too many times for over 45 years.

kaufsox
04-24-2008, 12:36 AM
It was a little interesting when we got to their bullpen, but when Rivera came in, we just looked outclassed. Not the best night at the park:(:

BadBobbyJenks
04-24-2008, 01:10 AM
Wow only 4 pages. This game felt like it was going to be an epic the sky is falling postgame thread.


Philip Hughes has been struggling lets get after him tomorrow.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2008, 01:25 AM
Foulke:

I can't tell you from a "series" standpoint but I do know the Yankees have won 11 of the last 17 games played at U.S. Cellular Field.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
04-24-2008, 02:22 AM
Wow only 4 pages. This game felt like it was going to be an epic the sky is falling postgame thread.




This was just one of those losses tonight you turn the page on. Bad offense and bad starting pitching, plain and simple. We had no chance tonight vs a very bad and washed up future hall of fame pitcher in Mussina.

The Uribe sucks bashing was minimum tonight because most of the team couldn't hit either.

One thing I hope Sox hitters did take notice from the Yankees is that there is this part on the ballpark called "The Gap,"and not the store. We should try usiing it once in a while. And they should also take notice that they get credit for a hit or double equally if they decide to take the ball the other way. You don't get extra points by pulling everything.

Someone did say it right on the game thread, They "Twins Baseballed" us tonight. Everything they hit appeard to drop in and find gaps, and the Yankees have a similar slow mashing team just like us.

HomeFish
04-24-2008, 02:33 AM
So just stay home tomorrow?

:scratch:

I don't get your post, teal maybe?

Obviously not. The White Sox are under a contract to play baseball, and even more importantly, "owe" it to their fans to try to win every game they can.

But the Yankees are not just any other team. They are the cream and pride of Baseball, and have a franchise history like no other. They are on an entirely different level from us or from any other team. Losing to them is not as bad as losing to Baltimore, Minnesota, Detroit, or some lesser team.

NADA SURF
04-24-2008, 03:48 AM
They took the field tonight with the intensity of the 2007-08 Bulls...
Mussina was throwing up softballs...
My softball team would have knocked him out by the 3rd.
Why wasn't the upper deck full?

chisoxfan79
04-24-2008, 05:16 AM
Foulke:

I can't tell you from a "series" standpoint but I do know the Yankees have won 11 of the last 17 games played at U.S. Cellular Field.

Lip
We won 2 out of 3 last May then lost 3 out of 4 in June

Grzegorz
04-24-2008, 06:17 AM
But the Yankees are not just any other team. They are the cream and pride of Baseball, and have a franchise history like no other. They are on an entirely different level from us or from any other team. Losing to them is not as bad as losing to Baltimore, Minnesota, Detroit, or some lesser team.

The Yankees can go to hell. I'd love the Chicago White Sox regroup today and kick their ass right out of town.

Bucky F. Dent
04-24-2008, 07:53 AM
Well, the only positive to be drawn from this game is that it sets up a perfect opportunity for Gavin to prove that he is a top-class big league pitcher.

The Yankees are getting on a roll and the Sox are starting to scuffle a little bit.

Would love to see this kid take the ball and pitch eight strong innings.

Stop the bleeding, Gavin.

WizardsofOzzie
04-24-2008, 08:00 AM
Left in the top of the 8th.

The biggest highlight was the kid in the front row of my section who threw up all over himself TWICE and just sat there afterwards. Hysterical.

Second biggest highlight was the 4 cougars next section over with the "Our husbands think we're at a PTA meeting" sign.

Nothing remarkable on the field aside from CQ and Crede.
That would have been a useful tag last year for the board. Hopefully not this year but definitely last night :(:

soxinem1
04-24-2008, 08:11 AM
Hey, you win some and you lose some.

All this will do right now is give the boneheads at ESPN the opportunity to say we cannot hang with the big boys.

At the same time, this .240 team BA needs to get better, as we are once again scoring too many solo HR's. Seems like every time I look up lately there is nobody on and two out.

Soxman219
04-24-2008, 08:49 AM
I can't understand why the Sox have a hard time beating the Yankees and Red Sox:angry:. I also hate that they always go for the long ball instead of getting doubles like other teams. At least were still in first, salvage the series tonight and then get revenge on the O's. It's still early so there is plenty of time to hit better.

Jurr
04-24-2008, 09:07 AM
I can't understand why the Sox have a hard time beating the Yankees and Red Sox:angry:. I also hate that they always go for the long ball instead of getting doubles like other teams. At least were still in first, salvage the series tonight and then get revenge on the O's. It's still early so there is plenty of time to hit better.
With all due respect, the Sox have been pretty good offensively so far this year. Not too much corspeball, even when things don't go so well.
When hitters are seeing a ball start at their faces and break down to the top of the strikezone, it's trouble, especially when the pitcher is also popping the black down and in. Mussina had a good night on the mound, and "them's the breaks". Go get 'em today.

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-24-2008, 09:12 AM
When was the last time the Sox won a game and DIDNT hit a home run? I dont think I've seen that many innings this year where the Sox have just slid right into a nice hitting grove...these guys just cant make friggin contact and slap the ball around...so frustrating to watch the Yankees do what the Sox SHOULD be doing....

By some divine miracle we have to salvage one win...lets hope Floyd is the real deal....

palehozenychicty
04-24-2008, 09:46 AM
Seriously. This offense has been well served this season by going up the middle. The first ****ing moment they get homer happy, things get bad. The steroid era is over fellas...time to adapt a little.

That is the most infuriating thing about this team is that during a game, they make very few adjustments. Well, everyone was mediocre yesterday, but losing to an old, ashen Mussina isn't good.

turners56
04-24-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm not that unhappy about the loss, since the Sox decided to show up in the 8th and made Girardi weary enough to use Rivera for 5 outs. Getting at least one game is very important, let's hope the good Gavin turns up.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2008, 12:31 PM
Jurr says: Seriously. This offense has been well served this season by going up the middle. The first ****ing moment they get homer happy, things get bad. The steroid era is over fellas...time to adapt a little.

Jurr I agree with you 100% but remember this has been this team's M.O. since 2000. The only exception was 2005 which happens to be the year they actually won something.

They need balance on this roster. The number 3-7 hitters can blast away to their hearts content, but what's desperately needed at the top and bottom of the lineup are guys with speed, guys who can steal bases, guys who can pressure the opponent into making errors and force pitchers to throw more fast balls. They need guys who can bunt, advance runners, keep innings alive and turn over the batting order.

They aren't easy to find of course, but that's just my take on things.

As long as, for want of a better word, the Sox resemble a "beer league" softball team, they are going to hit a lot of home runs and win some games by some really, really big numbers.

But they are also going to disappear offensively for stretches of time (sans 2007 and the second half of the 2006 season), have trouble scoring runs in pitchers park's like Seattle and Oakland and have trouble winning close games because with them it's "home run or nothing."

"It is what it is," as Kenny says, but just once (maybe after this season) I'd love for him to actually listen to Ozzie and go out and get guys who can bring back "Ozzie-Ball," make this team more balanced and give them a better chance to win games.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
04-24-2008, 12:37 PM
Jurr says: Seriously. This offense has been well served this season by going up the middle. The first ****ing moment they get homer happy, things get bad. The steroid era is over fellas...time to adapt a little.

Jurr I agree with you 100% but remember this has been this team's M.O. since 2000. The only exception was 2005 which happens to be the year they actually won something.

They need balance on this roster. The number 3-7 hitters can blast away to their hearts content, but what's desperately needed at the top and bottom of the lineup are guys with speed, guys who can steal bases, guys who can pressure the opponent into making errors and force pitchers to throw more fast balls. They need guys who can bunt, advance runners, keep innings alive and turn over the batting order.

They aren't easy to find of course, but that's just my take on things.

As long as, for want of a better word, the Sox resemble a "beer league" softball team, they are going to hit a lot of home runs and win some games by some really, really big numbers.

But they are also going to disappear offensively for stretches of time (sans 2007 and the second half of the 2006 season), have trouble scoring runs in pitchers park's like Seattle and Oakland and have trouble winning close games because with them it's "home run or nothing."

"It is what it is," as Kenny says, but just once (maybe after this season) I'd love for him to actually listen to Ozzie and go out and get guys who can bring back "Ozzie-Ball," make this team more balanced and give them a better chance to win games.

Lip
Speed is overrated. When did we ever win anything with speed?

JB98
04-24-2008, 02:04 PM
Jurr says: Seriously. This offense has been well served this season by going up the middle. The first ****ing moment they get homer happy, things get bad. The steroid era is over fellas...time to adapt a little.

Jurr I agree with you 100% but remember this has been this team's M.O. since 2000. The only exception was 2005 which happens to be the year they actually won something.

They need balance on this roster. The number 3-7 hitters can blast away to their hearts content, but what's desperately needed at the top and bottom of the lineup are guys with speed, guys who can steal bases, guys who can pressure the opponent into making errors and force pitchers to throw more fast balls. They need guys who can bunt, advance runners, keep innings alive and turn over the batting order.

They aren't easy to find of course, but that's just my take on things.

As long as, for want of a better word, the Sox resemble a "beer league" softball team, they are going to hit a lot of home runs and win some games by some really, really big numbers.

But they are also going to disappear offensively for stretches of time (sans 2007 and the second half of the 2006 season), have trouble scoring runs in pitchers park's like Seattle and Oakland and have trouble winning close games because with them it's "home run or nothing."

"It is what it is," as Kenny says, but just once (maybe after this season) I'd love for him to actually listen to Ozzie and go out and get guys who can bring back "Ozzie-Ball," make this team more balanced and give them a better chance to win games.

Lip


But Detroit is a pitcher's park, and the Sox ALWAYS win there. It seems like our hitters realize they aren't going to hit a lot of HRs when they play in Detroit, so they go back to a gap-to-gap approach.

And it works for them. Not only that, they still hit their fair share of home runs against the Tigers. When the team is at home, the players know it's a homer-friendly park. It's like the thought process becomes "bombs away." The result is a low hit output and a bunch of solo HRs.

As a side note, those who want more stolen bases better not complain when Jerry Owens is recalled and Brian Anderson gets sent down. If the offense continues to struggle on this homestand, I wouldn't be opposed to doing just that.

oeo
04-24-2008, 02:07 PM
And it works for them. Not only that, they still hit their fair share of home runs against the Tigers. When the team is at home, the players know it's a homer-friendly park. It's like the thought process becomes "bombs away." The result is a low hit output and a bunch of solo HRs.

It really kind of blows, because there's no room out there to hit anything. Teams will just play their "no double" defense all game (at the track), and nearly every line drive gets caught. The Twins are notorious for doing this at the Cell, and a lot of other teams seem to do the same thing.

It's almost like, hit it over everybody, or place it perfectly in the gap. Otherwise it's singles all day long (and with this team, singles aren't going to cut it). That, or break your bat/bloop everything into the outfield like the Yankees have been doing all series.

AZChiSoxFan
04-24-2008, 02:08 PM
So just stay home tomorrow?

:scratch:

I don't get your post, teal maybe?


You haven't read too many of HomeFish's posts have you?

Foulke You
04-24-2008, 02:10 PM
Jurr says: Seriously. This offense has been well served this season by going up the middle. The first ****ing moment they get homer happy, things get bad. The steroid era is over fellas...time to adapt a little.

Jurr I agree with you 100% but remember this has been this team's M.O. since 2000. The only exception was 2005 which happens to be the year they actually won something.

They need balance on this roster. The number 3-7 hitters can blast away to their hearts content, but what's desperately needed at the top and bottom of the lineup are guys with speed, guys who can steal bases, guys who can pressure the opponent into making errors and force pitchers to throw more fast balls. They need guys who can bunt, advance runners, keep innings alive and turn over the batting order.

They aren't easy to find of course, but that's just my take on things.

As long as, for want of a better word, the Sox resemble a "beer league" softball team, they are going to hit a lot of home runs and win some games by some really, really big numbers.

But they are also going to disappear offensively for stretches of time (sans 2007 and the second half of the 2006 season), have trouble scoring runs in pitchers park's like Seattle and Oakland and have trouble winning close games because with them it's "home run or nothing."

"It is what it is," as Kenny says, but just once (maybe after this season) I'd love for him to actually listen to Ozzie and go out and get guys who can bring back "Ozzie-Ball," make this team more balanced and give them a better chance to win games.

Lip
One thing to remember Lip is that the '05 Sox were also a very home run reliant ballclub. We hit 200 HRs that year which was good for 3rd overall in all of baseball. We did have a bit more speed at the top with Pods and Iguchi but the big difference was a more balanced attack combined with smart hitters and timely hitters. Carl Everett played a big part in that '05 offense in that he was a very smart hitter in addition to being able to mash the long ball. Iguchi was another smart hitter who would hit to RF a lot and advance runners with regularity.

Right now, the sample size is too small for me to condemn the '08 Sox offense. We seem to be taking a lot more walks this year and going into this Yankee series, we were hitting .317 with RISP which is excellent. Orlando Cabrera was advertised as a premier #2 hitter in the game so hopefully, when he heats up, he'll bring that missing balance element to our offense.

The other big thing in our lineup that has to improve is for our captain Paul Konerko to start hitting. I'm not talking just about HRs either. Konerko usually racks up a lot of RBIs on base hits and doubles. Paulie is a career .279 hitter and he needs to start making things happen in the middle of that order because right now, our cleanup hitter is a black hole in the lineup. He is just in one of those funks that he is going to eventually snap out of and when he does, this offense could be very good.

cheezheadsoxfan
04-24-2008, 02:19 PM
Obviously not. The White Sox are under a contract to play baseball, and even more importantly, "owe" it to their fans to try to win every game they can.

But the Yankees are not just any other team. They are the cream and pride of Baseball, and have a franchise history like no other. They are on an entirely different level from us or from any other team. Losing to them is not as bad as losing to Baltimore, Minnesota, Detroit, or some lesser team.

Are you interviewing at ESPN?:rolleyes:

AZChiSoxFan
04-24-2008, 02:19 PM
Walker last year on the Score said you could tell if a team was trying to hit home runs because their home run total would go up and their BA would be near the bottom. He used that as an example of why in 07 they werent a pull only team. Then in the offseason he says, yeah they were too pull happy. Here we are again, no bad weather, no perfect storm and we are 13th in the league in BA. The only saving grace for the O so far is the walks. This team better get a better handle on how to stop with long launch cuts or we will be back to last years offense all year long.

This might be the best, most insightful post I have read on WSI in a long time.

soxfan21
04-24-2008, 02:29 PM
I just know that we better not get swept today. Hopefully Gavin can come out with his good stuff again, and we can get our bats going. At least this is that last game against the yanks and we don't have to see them again until September.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2008, 02:46 PM
Foulke:

I'm sure you also understand that the Sox were in the top quarter of the league in 2005 not only in home runs, but in sacrifice bunts, stolen bases, infield hits and sacrifice flys.

They were much more then an "all of nothing," "swing for the fences" type team. They had balance which is what I and a lot of other Sox fans have been begging management to do since then.

Lip

Foulke You
04-24-2008, 03:11 PM
Foulke:

I'm sure you also understand that the Sox were in the top quarter of the league in 2005 not only in home runs, but in sacrifice bunts, stolen bases, infield hits and sacrifice flys.

They were much more then an "all of nothing," "swing for the fences" type team. They hde balance which is what I and a lot of other Sox fans have been begging management to do since then.

Lip
I'm not disagreeing with you on any of your points Lip. The '05 Sox definitely were more than an all or nothing team but I was just pointing out that they were also a very good HR hitting team to boot and some here have been equating HRs to a bad offense. Basically, that '05 team could beat you in a lot of different ways which is why they won it all.

I think that some are quick to condemn KW's 2008 creation based on too small of a sample size. Over half of that balanced '05 lineup is still there. Jermaine Dye, Joe Crede, Paul Konerko, AJ Pierzynski, and for better or worse Juan Uribe. Let's give the new faces like Swisher, Cabrera, and Quentin a chance to settle in before we automatically say they are a duplicate of the 2003/04 Sox offense that puts up 10 on one game and then gets shut out for two games after that. I will say that this team looks like it is going to be primarily a HR hitting team but the injection of OBP into the lineup this year along with some late and timely hits (sans Yankee series) has given me some cautious optimism about this team's offensive potential.

hawkjt
04-24-2008, 03:25 PM
Cubs right now in Colorado and in the first Pods led off with a walk, stole second, came in on a basehit by Helton...1-0 rockies with one out in the first. Just a flashback to 05 and that April/May where the sox led in every game with the same formula.

Pods got a huge two out hit in the bottom of the ninth last nite to help tie up the cubs before they lost it in the 10th. But still, a healthy Pods was a big part of 05 and he looks like he could be giving that to the Rockies this year.

I like Owens and Swisher ..but would like to see Owens leading off and stealing bases.

GlassSox
04-24-2008, 03:31 PM
This might be the best, most insightful post I have read on WSI in a long time.

Amen.

EndemicSox
04-24-2008, 03:37 PM
Owens put up some decent numbers(OBP wise) in the minors, and his SB% is greater than 75, so give him a shot...but if his OBP is crap, and he falls below the 75% line, his presence hurts the team...speed is nice to have, if used correctly...

BigKlu59
04-24-2008, 04:31 PM
I dont know..I'm not sweating it... What I've seen so far in this series is the Yanks getting saw'd off and dropping duck "farts" all over the field.. The difference has been JD and crew picking not up our ducks... They've managed to manufacture and have beaten us at our own game.. I think we're even on Hr's, but ours have been of the solo variety.. Earlier in the season we were bringing em home in 2's. 3's and 4's...

Also, whats wirh the Balsawood bat's? Swish play's the Hulk and snaps one in his mitts.. and everything hit south of the trademark seems to be turning in matchsticks.... Must be some bad "ASH" out there these day's..

BigKlu59

JB98
04-24-2008, 05:13 PM
It really kind of blows, because there's no room out there to hit anything. Teams will just play their "no double" defense all game (at the track), and nearly every line drive gets caught. The Twins are notorious for doing this at the Cell, and a lot of other teams seem to do the same thing.

It's almost like, hit it over everybody, or place it perfectly in the gap. Otherwise it's singles all day long (and with this team, singles aren't going to cut it). That, or break your bat/bloop everything into the outfield like the Yankees have been doing all series.

My feeling is if they take the gap-to-gap approach, they'll hit the ball hard and the doubles and home runs will come. Look at Konerko's grand slam off Rogers on the last homestand. He wasn't trying to pull. He got a pitch on the outer half and tried to hit it up the middle.

Lo and behold, he drove it out of the park to deep center. We have big, strong hitters. They don't need to try to hit home runs in order to hit home runs. Just take a solid fundamental approach and hit the damn ball hard. The results will be there.

WhiteSox5187
04-24-2008, 05:37 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you on any of your points Lip. The '05 Sox definitely were more than an all or nothing team but I was just pointing out that they were also a very good HR hitting team to boot and some here have been equating HRs to a bad offense. Basically, that '05 team could beat you in a lot of different ways which is why they won it all.

I think that some are quick to condemn KW's 2008 creation based on too small of a sample size. Over half of that balanced '05 lineup is still there. Jermaine Dye, Joe Crede, Paul Konerko, AJ Pierzynski, and for better or worse Juan Uribe. Let's give the new faces like Swisher, Cabrera, and Quentin a chance to settle in before we automatically say they are a duplicate of the 2003/04 Sox offense that puts up 10 on one game and then gets shut out for two games after that. I will say that this team looks like it is going to be primarily a HR hitting team but the injection of OBP into the lineup this year along with some late and timely hits (sans Yankee series) has given me some cautious optimism about this team's offensive potential.
While I think that we can all agree homeruns are a good thing I think Lip's point is that yes, we still have a lot of guys from the '05 team, but those weren't the guys we turned to when we needed to lay down a bunt or steal a base. There are a couple of guys on this team who I think are more than capable of laying down a bunt (Cabera certainly, probably Swisher and Uribe used to be good at it once upon a time) but in our current lineup I don't see anyone who is really a risk of stealing a base, I don't see anyone who can go the other way WHEN CALLED UPON. That's what I find to be troubling. But maybe I'm wrong.