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View Full Version : A look to the future of the White Sox (post '08)


guillen4life13
04-22-2008, 02:45 PM
There have been some threads relating to this, but I'm just throwing this at the wall to see what you all think about the direction of this team especially given what we have seen so far this year.

Players who could be gone after '08:
1) Joe Crede. This one has been beaten into the ground.
2) Jim Thome? From my count (AB+BB+HBP) he had 527 PA's last year, which means that this year, if he gets 563 PA's total (to make it 1100 over 07-08) then he is on the hook for '09, right? Does this include the playoffs?
3) Juan Uribe. Beaten to the ground.
4) Orlando Cabrera? Contract talks aren't moving and I wouldn't be surprised if he walks to make room for a new SS of the future. I'm not sure if I'd be too unhappy about this, but we will see how the season plays out.
5) Toby Hall's contract is up after this season.
6) Pablo's contract is up after this year, but I think we can still pencil him into the same position he has held since '06.
7) If Jose Contreras doesn't rebound, might he be gone?
8) When are they going to give up on MacDougal? Unless he finally gets his "head issues" in check...


I'd have to say that I'm still very optimistic about what the future holds on the South Side. The above players all have in house replacements lined up, and the team gets younger but still stays very competitive. Is it viable that, give or take, the opening 25 man roster next year could be:

Infield:
C Pierzynski (Cole Armstrong as backup C)
1B Swisher (PK moves to DH when Thome leaves)
2B Richar
3B Fields
SS Alexei Ramirez

Backup IF: Pablo, Bourgeois

DH/1B: Paul Konerko

Outfield:
LF Quentin
CF Anderson
RF Dye
4th OF: Owens

SP's:
Buehrle
Vazquez
Danks
Floyd
Egbert/Broadway/FA acquisition?

Relief:
Logan
Linebrink
Jenks
Thornton
Dotel
Wasserman
Masset

If Danks+Floyd are able to keep it up and finish the season each sporting a sub-4.00 ERA, this rotation could be set 1-4 through 2010, and if they resign Vazquez (if it's worth it), then we're set through 2011. Add the lineup+defense, and you have one helluva ballclub that would stay together for a while since they're (almost) all under Sox control for a while.

I know it's really early to be thinking about '09 and beyond, but judging by how things look for the team now, the future looks bright!

oeo
04-22-2008, 02:48 PM
-Contreras isn't going anywhere, unless he has a big year and someone wants to take him on. If he has a big year, do we really want to deal him? I say you sell high, but that's just me.
-MacDougal still has an option left...there's no reason to 'give up' on him, yet.
-If you're going to move anyone to DH (if Thome is gone), it should be Dye, not Konerko. Dye is just dreadful in RF. Move Quentin to RF, Swisher to LF. If Anderson can play everyday, then he gets the job in CF...otherwise, that's a hole that needs to be filled. I still think Anderson will get traded at some point this season, though.
-We still need to see what kind of years Richar and Ramirez have before we hand them jobs. This will go back to whether we bring Cabrera back. Richar needs to get healthy, first and foremost.

EDIT: Also, if Alexei works on his CF, he could be an option there, too. He's still raw there, but he's raw everywhere.

Flight #24
04-22-2008, 03:40 PM
It's early, and I'm enjoying this start (and hopefully the whole season) too much to put much thought into it, but it did occur to me that over the next couple of years, the Sox should be set with a nice mix of vets & youngsters:

1B: Konerko should be solid through '10, then move Swisher there
2B: Richar/Ramirez or Getz. This is one area which is more of a ? because while I like both Richar & Ramirez, neither has shown more than flashes.
SS: Cabrera/Ramirez. See 2B, I'd love to see them resign Orlando, for a couple of years since I think his skill set offensively will age well (execution-wise), so as long as he provides good D and leadership he's a keeper. But if you're sold on Richar & Ramirez, here's the opportunity to restructure the MIF.
3B: Crede, then Fields. In a dream world, the Sox up payroll again, resign Crede, and Fields nets them a ton in trade. Unlikely though.
C: Probably the weakest spot since after AJ there's little to nothing unless you believe in Donny Lucy. Good news is that AJ seems to have taken conditioning seriously, which should give him a couple more good years.
LF: Quentin, then ideally Swisher, then in a couple of years when Konerko leaves and Swish moves to 1B, you open up a slot for a Shelby type of guy, possibly more of a true leadoff.
RF: Dye, then Quentin when Jermaine moves on to DH (or in trade).
CF: Swish, then Anderson or Owens. If Owens cements himself then LF looks for more of a power slot. But personally, I'd rather see Brian get a real shot here if it opens up because of his D and because I think he can provide a better all around offensive game than Jerry.
DH: Thome, then Dye.

So on-field, you're really set pretty well with the ?s in the next 2-3 years being 2B and SS and possibly C depending on AJ. Resigning Cabrera would be nice to solidify the MIF. Then you'd even have the option that if Richar pans out you can add Ramirez to the CF candidate list if/when Swish moves to LF.

SP-wise, I love the top 4 over the next few years. Contreras should be a decent #5, and then in an ideal world you'd bring Poreda in. A year later Javy would probably depart but filling a single SP slot should be doable.

In the 'pen, Bobby's going to get expensive soon, and it's too hard to project MRs. But hopefully by the time Linebrink/Dotel move on Kenny can find another 2 guys to come in. Maybe that's the long-term for Broadway/Russell/Egbert.

In general, while I was down on the offseason, Kenny's proven me wrong so far and IMO has really done a nice job adding youth and young vets that are producing and have significantly extended this team's competitive window.

Frater Perdurabo
04-22-2008, 03:49 PM
After the Sox win the 2008 World Series...

If Thome leaves, have Fields DH. Dye should play LF and Quentin RF. Swisher can stay in CF; Anderson is the 4th OF.

Keep Crede. Hopefully Alexi Ramirez can play SS well if Cabrera leaves.

Richar is the 2B of the future. Getz is the future utility IF.

Perhaps Broadway can supplant Contreras?

Middle relief is hard to project, but there would be plenty of money to sign the premier set-up guy(s).

turners56
04-22-2008, 04:24 PM
In a perfect world...

Thome gets the boot, we start DHing Josh Fields. Re-sign Cabrera and Crede to play SS and 3B respectively. Keep Swisher in the outfield, put Dye in left and move Quentin to right. Get rid of Contreras to make room for either Broadway or another starter in the wings. Toby Hall should be out of here, he hasn't proved useful for the past year and a half, find a better backup. Keep Ozuna and hopefully we can make room for either Owens or Bourgoius. Keep the bullpen intact and I think that's about it.

HebrewHammer
04-22-2008, 07:45 PM
Infield:
C Pierzynski (Cole Armstrong as backup C)
1B Swisher (PK moves to DH when Thome leaves)
2B Richar
3B Fields
SS Alexei Ramirez

Backup IF: Pablo, Bourgeois

DH/1B: Paul Konerko

Outfield:
LF Quentin
CF Anderson
RF Dye
4th OF: Owens

SP's:
Buehrle
Vazquez
Danks
Floyd
Egbert/Broadway/FA acquisition?

Relief:
Logan
Linebrink
Jenks
Thornton
Dotel
Wasserman
Masset


This is quite possibly the worst Sox roster ever constructed. No way KW would allow this roster to take the field. A Richar, Ramirez, Fields IF would probably finish the season with over 400 K's.

jabrch
04-22-2008, 07:55 PM
Infield:
C Pierzynski (Cole Armstrong as backup C)
1B Swisher (PK moves to DH when Thome leaves)
2B Richar
3B Fields
SS Alexei Ramirez

Backup IF: Pablo, Bourgeois

DH/1B: Paul Konerko

Outfield:
LF Quentin
CF Anderson
RF Dye
4th OF: Owens

SP's:
Buehrle
Vazquez
Danks
Floyd
Egbert/Broadway/FA acquisition?

Relief:
Logan
Linebrink
Jenks
Thornton
Dotel
Wasserman
Masset

I don't see them cutting payroll as much as you are predicting. If we let Crede and Thome walk, as well as the other guys there, we'd go after some big $ players somewhere.

guillen4life13
04-22-2008, 09:19 PM
This is quite possibly the worst Sox roster ever constructed. No way KW would allow this roster to take the field. A Richar, Ramirez, Fields IF would probably finish the season with over 400 K's.
Why don't we wait until two out of the three establish themselves to be high-K hitters once they adjust to the majors? Fields will be a high K guy, no doubt. But so is Thome.

I don't see them cutting payroll as much as you are predicting. If we let Crede and Thome walk, as well as the other guys there, we'd go after some big $ players somewhere.

Agreed, hence the "give or take" preceding the roster.

getonbckthr
04-22-2008, 09:29 PM
If Contreras is a concern through the season yet we stay in the race I could see some sort of a package from these guys Richar, Egbert, Broadway, Anderson, OWens moved for a starter similar to the Freddy Garcia and Javier Vazquez deals we pulled off. I have to assume this will be Juans final season with Alexi stepping in at 2B. Cabrera shouldn't cost much more than we are paying him now to resign. Quentin becomes the everyday RF, Swisher the everyday LF and either Owens or Anderson (which ever one wasn't traded) is the CF. This leaves us with Thome, Konerko, Dye, Crede and Fields to fill 1B, 3B, and DH. Fields because of age and price is in my eyes a lock to stay. Konerko will get 10/5 status and I can't picture him leaving. Personally I would try to trade Contreras for what ever you can get, most likely a NL team would be the best idea. Maybe a Cincy or Milwaukee team where a veteran would be nice. Possibly even the Marlins. Thome is a guy we could probably trade somewhat easily as long as our return demands aren't high. Teams such as Toronto, Seattle, Texas and Oakland pop into my head. Tampa's young exciting team will another year older maybe they would take a bat like Thome's. Giambi will most likely be gone next season in NY so there's an option. With Dye all those options exist as well as teams looking for a LF'r. SO to that list you can add Mets, STL, Reds possibly, Cubs (Soriano back to 2B), Phils ( Burrell will be a FA). With that money you can resign Crede to play 3B, PK at DH and Josh at 1B.

oeo
04-23-2008, 10:03 AM
Why don't we wait until two out of the three establish themselves to be high-K hitters once they adjust to the majors? Fields will be a high K guy, no doubt. But so is Thome.

How long before people realize that strikeouts are a trade off of power? It's not a difficult concept...deal with it.

FedEx227
04-23-2008, 12:16 PM
How long before people realize that strikeouts are a trade off of power? It's not a difficult concept...deal with it.

No, young guys cannot strike out. Konerko and Thome can do it as much as they want, but once someone under 30 strikes out they are pieces of crap.

TDog
04-23-2008, 12:56 PM
How long before people realize that strikeouts are a trade off of power? It's not a difficult concept...deal with it.

It depends on the strikeouts and it depends on the power. It also depends on the player. People like to compare Frank Thomas to Ted Williams, but they were actually different types of hitters because when Williams led the league in home runs while batting .406, he only struck out 27 times -- that's 10 fewer strikeouts than home runs. (Actually, I have read that Lou Brock's propensity to strike out without showing power was one of the reasons the Cubs traded him.)

Josh Fields' career start falls short of Ron Kittle's start over the same number in official at bats in the major offensive categories and both struck out a lot. After being named the 1983 Rookie of the Year, Kittle struggled in 1984.

I am sure Fields is working on making more contact. At least I hope he is. And I am guessing that will affect his power numbers. Nick Swisher strikes out a lot, as do Jim Thome and Paul Konerko. But both Thome and Swisher take a lot of walks.

I don't think Fields has shown he is ready to replace Thome. I don't think he's shown he is ready to replace Joe Crede or Konerko. I am not in love with his bat because I don't think what he showed last year is a taste of bigger and better things or the best he will do. I've seen too much bad thirdbase play in my life as a Sox fan to want to see him at the hot corner.

But I am enjoying the 2008 season. I won't have any say in building next year's team. Someone with more baseball smarts than I is paid to deal with that. I enjoyed 1977 free from the anxiety of knowing that in 1978 the White Sox would field another bad baseball team. I hope to enjoy 2008 and worry about 2009 in 2009.

HebrewHammer
04-23-2008, 09:35 PM
Why don't we wait until two out of the three establish themselves to be high-K hitters once they adjust to the majors? Fields will be a high K guy, no doubt. But so is Thome.

Wait? Aren't you the one proposing that they take over starting roles as soon as next year?

Of the three guys mentioned, how many will ever match Thome's power production? Konerko's?

Lillian
04-24-2008, 09:44 AM
I know that I've argued the following point for quite a while here, but some recent developments merit a reiteration: Konerko will very soon have his "no trade" rights in effect. Before it's too late, the Sox should seriously explore what kind of value he might bring in a trade. With the addition of Swisher, and Quentin, and the emergence of Fields, Konerko is very expendable.

Swisher should be at First. Quentin is demonstrating that he will likely live up to all of his earlier expectations. He will likely end up with production somewhere around 30 doubles, 30 homers, 80 to 100 RBI's and an OBP of well over .350.
That's not based upon a projection of this year's stats, which would actually be much better. It is rather a projection of this year's stats, combined with his rookie year. It excludes last year's numbers. After all, he was hurt for much of the season.
With Crede, Quentin, Swisher, Dye and later Fields, this team has plenty of right handed power. They don't need Konerko, who is very prone to streaks.
I would much rather see Quentin in Right, Dye in Left, and either Anderson or Owens in CF.
This would leave the question of where to play Fields unresolved, however I'm sure that they could find some playing time for him somewhere, without Konerko on the team. We have discussed platooning with Thome at DH, and spelling Crede occasionally at Third. Of course, next year Fields would still be most likely taking Crede's place at Third, so the issue would resolve itself when Joe walks. My hope is that the money saved on Konerko's contract could be used to resign Crede.
The big question for me is what should the Sox seek in a trade of Konerko?
I would love to see more pitching, but we've had that discussion as well.

TheVulture
04-24-2008, 11:13 AM
This is quite possibly the worst Sox roster ever constructed.

You obviously weren't a sox fan in the '80s.

TheVulture
04-24-2008, 12:37 PM
No, young guys cannot strike out. Konerko and Thome can do it as much as they want, but once someone under 30 strikes out they are pieces of crap.

Konerko struck out a high of 109 times in 656 PA. He had a .375 OBP that year. Thome has a career OBP of .408 over 18 seasons. Josh Fields at 24 put up a .308 OBP while striking out at a pace that equates to 201 K's in 656 PA. At 24, Thome hit .314 with .438 OBP, Konerko hit .297 with a .363 OBP while striking out 72 times in 561 PA. Next!

TDog
04-24-2008, 02:57 PM
This is quite possibly the worst Sox roster ever constructed. No way KW would allow this roster to take the field. A Richar, Ramirez, Fields IF would probably finish the season with over 400 K's.

You neglected to mention that Swisher at first would strike out more than the other infielders, except maybe Fields -- who I hope is working on making more contact.

This roster hasn't been put together yet. If your concern is 2009, there's no way you're going to enjoy the 2008 season.

LITTLE NELL
04-24-2008, 05:40 PM
You obviously weren't a sox fan in the '80s.
Or 1969 and 1970