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emiller4
04-18-2008, 11:27 PM
Has this been discussed at all? I know that it would screw up the Uribe-Cabrera DP combination and we may miss Uribe's glove but his bat should surely make up for it. Any thoughts?

ksimpson14
04-18-2008, 11:29 PM
stick to writing plays, my friend

Nellie_Fox
04-18-2008, 11:30 PM
Another fantasy baseball GM. Just stick the best home run hitters you can find out there and take your chances.

No way in hell can Fields play second.

Elephant
04-18-2008, 11:36 PM
Let's see, he stinks at third..

logically he should excel at a much tougher, more intricate position that requires a great deal more range and a completely different read off the bat.

Checks out. Put him in there!

PalehosePlanet
04-18-2008, 11:57 PM
Has this been discussed at all? I know that it would screw up the Uribe-Cabrera DP combination and we may miss Uribe's glove but his bat should surely make up for it. Any thoughts?

It's not unprecedented, Cleveland once upon a time did this with Jeff Kent after he played 3B and SS poorly. However, I don't see Josh ever having the proper foot work to be able to pull the switch off. He is a good athlete overall, but 2B is a lot more intricate a position than many people think.

Bottom line: I don't think the coaching staff or management would ever even consider it.

Elephant
04-19-2008, 12:06 AM
Jeff Kent then went on to play 2B poorly for 10 years.

Tragg
04-19-2008, 12:18 AM
Jeff Kent then went on to play 2B poorly for 10 years.
He was still a well above average player for most of those years because of his O and despite his bad D.

2nd base isn't a defensive position in the same sense that C, ss are. No need to have bad offense at 2b.

Tragg
04-19-2008, 12:21 AM
Has this been discussed at all? I know that it would screw up the Uribe-Cabrera DP combination and we may miss Uribe's glove but his bat should surely make up for it. Any thoughts?
It's a fair question....consider the unnecessarily cynical responses some hazing of a sort. Welcome to the board.

The Sox do need to figure out a way to use his bat.
Many have suggested 1B

cleanwsox
04-19-2008, 01:02 AM
It's a fair question....consider the unnecessarily cynical responses some hazing of a sort. Welcome to the board.

The Sox do need to figure out a way to use his bat.
Many have suggested 1B

Well, everybody here hasn't made it to a GM position in the majors, so until I hear from somebody qualified.. it's not that bad of a observation. I think 1B is a better spot for Fields, but 2nd isn't that far out of an idea as some think.

Elephant
04-19-2008, 01:24 AM
Well, everybody here hasn't made it to a GM position in the majors, so until I hear from somebody qualified.. it's not that bad of a observation. I think 1B is a better spot for Fields, but 2nd isn't that far out of an idea as some think.

:rolleyes:

On KW's behalf, it's a pretty ****in far out idea.

Let's worry about Fields actually being a good major league hitter before we start, just, finding a spot for him in a defensive position when he clearly doesn't really have one. He makes Thome look like Nellie Fox, and Thome has the highest strikeout rate of all time.

That said, I have faith in him as a hitter based on what I saw last year as the year went on. He'll always be a hacker, but plenty of hackers are in the hall of fame. The thing is, he's gotta be a helluva hitter to offset his defensive shortcomings and elevate him to be a "great" player. And at this point, he's not even better than Quentin, who also brings above average defense (mainly attributed to his arm) at this point.

Domeshot17
04-19-2008, 01:52 AM
It's not unprecedented, Cleveland once upon a time did this with Jeff Kent after he played 3B and SS poorly. However, I don't see Josh ever having the proper foot work to be able to pull the switch off. He is a good athlete overall, but 2B is a lot more intricate a position than many people think.

Bottom line: I don't think the coaching staff or management would ever even consider it.

Too me the one thing Fields will have is footwork. He was a former QB, and while it is different, the bottom line is he played the most footwork important position in any sport alive. He actually is a great athlete.

If you look at the weaknesses Josh has, he doesn't have the best reactions or the softest hands, which are 2 big things needed to play 3rd. His range is not bad, and should Improve. He is a little bulky to play the position, and lacks the quick first step, but he could be an ok player there (isn't he like the backup SS in charlotte or something).

That said, right now, we are loaded 1-8 offensively. We have Swisher O thome PK Dye CQ AJ Crede. It is the one lineup that can live with the horrendous offense Uribe brings because of the leather he throws at 2nd. It did not fly last year because he was the 6th or 7th best hitter with guys like Andy Gonzalez and Terrero in the lineup.

There are those that think baseball is a defensive game, and don't want to think offense plays a part in it. Then there are those that would love a team with David Ortiz Thome Konerko Pujols et. all and would find positions to stick um. We have a great balance of offense and defense right now, so why mess with it. Josh will have a role next year either at 3rd or DH. If Crede is signed long term, maybe Josh is dealt for a starter. We will see. Josh has a chance to be a very very good ball player, but lets not screw him up like a David Kelton who was moved around so much his offense died and he became worthless.

emiller4
04-19-2008, 02:03 AM
Yeah it's just something to consider that I have not really heard discussed much. Given the fact that we have a potential 30 HR man just waiting in the minors while Uribe is putting up the line .170/.228/.250 so far.

Elephant
04-19-2008, 02:10 AM
Yeah, it would be very nice to get Fields' production compared to what we have there now, but mind your two R's--Richar and Ramirez. Your starting middle IF for 2009.

Fields will play catcher before he plays second.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2008, 02:11 AM
2nd base isn't a defensive position in the same sense that C, ss are. No need to have bad offense at 2b.And I strongly disagree. "Up the middle" are defense-first positions; catcher, SS, 2B, CF. The corners are offense-first positions.

Elephant
04-19-2008, 02:15 AM
And I strongly disagree. "Up the middle" are defense-first positions; catcher, SS, 2B, CF. The corners are offense-first positions.

Well if he means what I think he means, 2B isn't as critical as the other two. And I think we can agree on that.

But nevertheless, you want something more than Fields.

AnkleSox
04-19-2008, 02:49 AM
I love Fields but I think we could trade him for a lot of great talent. It's a risk with Crede who's back is a question but he's proven himself to be a Sox favorite and I don't think he's all about the borass green.

I think you only keep Josh if you're a rebuilding team with a future, Unless we trade Paulie, which I don't think KW is willing to do quite yet

CleeFan101
04-19-2008, 02:50 AM
Unless Crede signs for a discount, which isn't going to happen considering his agent I still think Fields is our starting 3B next year. Another option is with Dye aging and definitely showing it in the field, Quentin can move to RF and we can have Josh in LF.

I definitely think one of Dye, Thome, Konerko will be off the team next year so should be a spot for him.

jabrch
04-19-2008, 07:17 AM
You need certain skills to play MI - Fields doesn't appear to have them. He's going to be a 3B or a 1B.

Rounding_Third
04-19-2008, 07:55 AM
Yeah it's just something to consider that I have not really heard discussed much. Given the fact that we have a potential 30 HR man just waiting in the minors while Uribe is putting up the line .170/.228/.250 so far.

When comparing the defenses of the 2 (errors, great plays, and turning DP), Fields would probably have to hit .350 and have an OBP of .500 just to make up for the additional baserunners he'd allow over Uribe. I don't think he has that in him.

TomBradley72
04-19-2008, 08:30 AM
Has this been discussed at all? I know that it would screw up the Uribe-Cabrera DP combination and we may miss Uribe's glove but his bat should surely make up for it. Any thoughts?

Horrible idea. Absolutely not.

TomBradley72
04-19-2008, 08:34 AM
Too me the one thing Fields will have is footwork. He was a former QB, and while it is different, the bottom line is he played the most footwork important position in any sport alive.

His footwork may eventually be good...but for now it's one of his biggest issues as he tries to develop into a solid MLB 3rd baseman.

Bucky F. Dent
04-19-2008, 08:38 AM
With Uribe, Richar, Ramirez, and Ozuna available at 2B, why would we possibly want to play this kid out of position?

Jurr
04-19-2008, 08:55 AM
I just don't get it. In 2005, people bitched about Uribe's bat but loved his glove, and it was okay because Uribe ended up spraying champagne in clubhouses all over the US.

The guy has a hose, he helps make the d strong up the middle, and he'll bat around .230 with 20 bombs. What is wrong with that??????

voodoochile
04-19-2008, 08:59 AM
I just don't get it. In 2005, people bitched about Uribe's bat but loved his glove, and it was okay because Uribe ended up spraying champagne in clubhouses all over the US.

The guy has a hose, he helps make the d strong up the middle, and he'll bat around .230 with 20 bombs. What is wrong with that??????

.230 with 20 bombs? What kind of stats are those? :tongue:

Rocky Soprano
04-19-2008, 09:09 AM
No way in hell can Fields play second.

He can barely play third! :D:

Vernam
04-19-2008, 10:36 AM
I just don't get it. In 2005, people bitched about Uribe's bat but loved his glove, and it was okay because Uribe ended up spraying champagne in clubhouses all over the US.

The guy has a hose, he helps make the d strong up the middle, and he'll bat around .230 with 20 bombs. What is wrong with that??????I've been one of Juan's biggest supporters since he first came along to replace the defensively challenged Valentin. That upgrade at SS was key to our becoming champs. People who criticize his defense just baffle me.

But his complete lack of plate discipline is why so many would like to see him gone. If not for our fast start, I'd be one calling for Uribe's head. That OBP is just indefensible on a contending team, especially now that he's at 2B. In the post-steroid era (just as in the pre-steroid era), a contender could justify having a weak hitter at SS for his defense. But 2B isn't nearly such a priority defensively, and it makes his offense seem more glaring, 20 HR or not.

So long as the team keeps playing this well, I don't think Uribe is going anywhere. But if our record slips, I think the very first move they'll make is to give Ramirez a lot of innings at 2B. (Assuming Quentin and Swisher keep up what they've been doing. If one of them falters, I could see Owens being brought up to light a spark, probably with Swisher moving to LF.)

Another thing that probably incites Uribe's detractors is DJ's daily insistence that he's the kind of guy who can carry the team for long stretches. :rolleyes: He ****in' better, considering he's so useless at the plate for even longer stretches!

Vernam

chaerulez
04-19-2008, 10:42 AM
I just don't get it. In 2005, people bitched about Uribe's bat but loved his glove, and it was okay because Uribe ended up spraying champagne in clubhouses all over the US.

The guy has a hose, he helps make the d strong up the middle, and he'll bat around .230 with 20 bombs. What is wrong with that??????

Because when your team isn't having success, the fanbase is going to complain about the faults and weaknesses of the team. Right now our glaring hole is that our second basemen records an out almost 80 percent of the time. At some point that is going to come back and haunt us.

As for Fields playing second, this isn't MLB2K8.

Tragg
04-19-2008, 12:50 PM
I just don't get it. In 2005, people bitched about Uribe's bat but loved his glove, and it was okay because Uribe ended up spraying champagne in clubhouses all over the US.

The guy has a hose, he helps make the d strong up the middle, and he'll bat around .230 with 20 bombs. What is wrong with that??????
A lot, at 2b.
That's fine for a ss.
We have average SS production at an offensive position, 2B. No need for it on a long term basis

Chicken Dinner
04-19-2008, 12:57 PM
Don't change a thing. We have the best record in the AL so why screw with anything. Pick up a newspaper a read the box scores. Every team has a bottom feeder.

Bigfoot38
04-19-2008, 01:26 PM
I don't understand the move we're going to replace a guy at 2B who plays really good D with a strong arm who hits .240 20hr 70rbi, for a poor fielding 2B who will hit .250 30 hr 80 rbi and strike out just as much...

I'm on board with whoever mentioned moving fields. If Crede proves he can make it through the season(as it was said no contract would be discussed until afterwards) then lets move fields. Or how about this July deadline deal


CWS get: 2B Brian Roberts

BAL get: 3B Josh Fields
P Wes Whisler
2B/SS Juan Uribe

Gosh i'm a hypocrite. I hate it when people play GM/manager... oh well might as well finish it here's the lineup...


CF Swisher
2B Roberts
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
LF Quentin
3B creD
SS Cabrera( its like having another lead off hitter)


hey look no uribe:happybday

Jurr
04-19-2008, 02:39 PM
A lot, at 2b.
That's fine for a ss.
We have average SS production at an offensive position, 2B. No need for it on a long term basis
The last time I checked, this offense is fine. Uribe is a role player, bar none. He's going to have a few big AB's, he's going to have a mid .200 average, but his glove is superb. People were talking about having the MLB 2K8 roster, with Fields at 2nd. That's true. Just because a guy hits better doesn't make him a fit at a position. Uribe's glove and his arm will win more games for the Sox than his batting average is going to lose. Period.

The Sox are in first place, and the offense has been more than adequate. The defense has been above average, and has helped the staff's ERA stay very impressive in the early stages of the season. There's no need to mess with things right now, unless Uribe absolutely goes into the crapper. If he stays around his career averages, you don't pull him in favor of a little more offense. Is Uribe the future second baseman of the Sox long term? Probably not. Is he good enough to be a middle infielder on a championship club? Yup.

dickallen15
04-19-2008, 02:48 PM
With 22 strikeouts in 55 AAA at bats, Josh needs to be working on things other than a position change although I thought last year the Sox should try him at 2B instead of LF. If he hits what a lot of people think he'll hit, subpar defense at 2B can be tolerated. I just really wonder if he's really all that good of a hitter. We have seen both ways how important good defense is already this season.

Jurr
04-19-2008, 02:56 PM
With 22 strikeouts in 55 AAA at bats, Josh needs to be working on things other than a position change although I thought last year the Sox should try him at 2B instead of LF. If he hits what a lot of people think he'll hit, subpar defense at 2B can be tolerated. I just really wonder if he's really all that good of a hitter. We have seen both ways how important good defense is already this season.
That defense will become more and more important the later this season progresses. God willing, if this team is playing meaningful baseball in September, defense and pitching will dictate wins versus losses, much more than gaudy offensive stats. Good pitching will always beat good hitting, and the quality of your defensive personnel has a lot to do with how well your pitchers are performing.

emiller4
04-19-2008, 02:57 PM
Who cares how many times he strikes out? I'm more worried about actual production (OBP, Slugging, etc.) than whether his outs are induced when he puts the ball in play or whiffs on 3 pitches.

MrRoboto83
04-19-2008, 02:57 PM
I say we can plug him in at catcher, pitcher and back-up manager as well. Josh Fields is the man!

Jurr
04-19-2008, 03:00 PM
Who cares how many times he strikes out? I'm more worried about actual production (OBP, Slugging, etc.) than whether his outs are induced when he puts the ball in play or whiffs on 3 pitches.
Ummm....no.

Tragg
04-19-2008, 03:03 PM
The last time I checked, this offense is fine. Uribe is a role player, bar none. He's going to have a few big AB's, he's going to have a mid .200 average, but his glove is superb. People were talking about having the MLB 2K8 roster, with Fields at 2nd. That's true. Just because a guy hits better doesn't make him a fit at a position. Uribe's glove and his arm will win more games for the Sox than his batting average is going to lose. Period.

The Sox are in first place, and the offense has been more than adequate. The defense has been above average, and has helped the staff's ERA stay very impressive in the early stages of the season. There's no need to mess with things right now, unless Uribe absolutely goes into the crapper. If he stays around his career averages, you don't pull him in favor of a little more offense. Is Uribe the future second baseman of the Sox long term? Probably not. Is he good enough to be a middle infielder on a championship club? Yup.
How often do you see a hitter as bad as Uribe playing 2b - for any team? People complained about his O at SS...now they want him at 2b.

Last year we had Uribe and ("no value") Iguchi and Jon Garland; this year we have Uribe and Cabrera and no Jon Garland. The only way that makes any sense is to take the draft choices.

Tragg
04-19-2008, 03:05 PM
Who cares how many times he strikes out? I'm more worried about actual production (OBP, Slugging, etc.) than whether his outs are induced when he puts the ball in play or whiffs on 3 pitches.
I agree it isn't a prime concern.
To the hacking-at-everything philosophy of offense, however, it is important. Hopefully, we left that philosophy and its bountiful 72 wins back in 2007.
Richar will probably be the 2B here. He played pretty well here last summer and has good hitting instincts, showed some power, and fielded his position fine. Fields - 1st or 3rd. But neither is likely for 2008. There was little chance Uribe wasn't going to start if he is on this roster at all - and we're winning, so it won't change.

Jurr
04-19-2008, 03:09 PM
How often do you see a hitter as bad as Uribe playing 2b - for any team? People complained about his O at SS...now they want him at 2b.

Last year we had Uribe and ("no value") Iguchi and Jon Garland; this year we have Uribe and Cabrera and no Jon Garland. The only way that makes any sense is to take the draft choices.
Actually, based on what Cabrera did last year with offensive production and what we should see out of him this year, we'd still see the upgrade over the Iguchi/Uribe combination. What position you get production from should not be the huge debate. That's kinda silly. Hell, A-Rod, Jeter, Tejada, and Garciaparra debunked the age old myth that SS was not a "production" position.

Yeah...corner outfielders are supposed to be power positons. Well, if your center fielder is Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime, you don't have to worry as much about that, do you? Or for a more Sox friendly example, Pods in left wasn't your typical power guy.

Maybe Ozzie believes in Uribe a little too much. Maybe his offensive production is so bad that management should just overlook his glove. However, this team is winning with Uribe at second, and Juan's filling his role nicely. If he starts to heat up a tad, we're MORE than happy. All I'm saying is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

emiller4
04-19-2008, 03:27 PM
I agree it isn't a prime concern.
To the hacking-at-everything philosophy of offense, however, it is important. Hopefully, we left that philosophy and its bountiful 72 wins back in 2007.
.

We also rode that philosophy to 92 wins back in 2006.

Jurr
04-19-2008, 03:34 PM
We also rode that philosophy to 92 wins back in 2006.
Oh my lord. Remember back to that year. When the book came out on the Sox (which was throw every kind of junk pitch off of the plate as much as possible), the Sox began losing...this trend carried all the way into September of '07, so that philosophy very much doesn't work.

NADA SURF
04-19-2008, 04:07 PM
Do any of you think KW is actively trying to move Konerko to make room for Fields?[FONT="Comic Sans MS"[/FONT]

Madscout
04-19-2008, 04:35 PM
Who cares how many times he strikes out? I'm more worried about actual production (OBP, Slugging, etc.) than whether his outs are induced when he puts the ball in play or whiffs on 3 pitches.

Yeah, I hate bases on errors, sac flys, and ground balls where the runner moves up too.

Tragg
04-19-2008, 04:40 PM
We also rode that philosophy to 92 wins back in 2006.

No we didn't. I exaggerate (obviously) laying 2007 entirely on a bad offensive philosophy, but it certainly had a lot to do with what was MLB's most impotent offense.

emiller4
04-19-2008, 04:41 PM
Yeah, I hate bases on errors, sac flys, and ground balls where the runner moves up too.

For most intents and purposes a walk is, yes, as good as a hit. And I'm worried about how often a guy makes an out not the type of out. A sac fly trades an out for a run (and is not reflected in the box score as the guy making an out) so thats irrelevant to this. All I'm saying is be worried about a guys OBP moreso than whether he strikes out a lot or not.

Tragg
04-19-2008, 05:11 PM
For most intents and purposes a walk is, yes, as good as a hit. And I'm worried about how often a guy makes an out not the type of out. A sac fly trades an out for a run (and is not reflected in the box score as the guy making an out) so thats irrelevant to this. All I'm saying is be worried about a guys OBP moreso than whether he strikes out a lot or not.
No question and this team is 1000% improved in the obp department. Swisher is an OBP machine and Quentin isn't bad himself. They are taking walks. This is in sharp contrast to last year when the Sox were doing the opposite, often by design....making outs in front of Thome and Konerko and calling that a success.

In 2005, the Sox had a leadoff hitter who got on base 35% of the time and the #2 hitter got on base 34% of the time....that's not bad at all. Last year, the 35% hitter wasn't anywhere near 35% and the #2 hitter was demoted in favor of a hitter who's main skill was making outs to the side of the infield Ozzie told him to.
Indeed, with Swisher, Dye, Konerko and Thome, there are very few productive outs from anyone...and the few productive outs there are, are made by one of the above - not by a Uribe et al whose sole objective should be getting on base (or if your hitter is so bad that a designated out is better than the undesignated kind as the chances of a hit are so minute).
Still, Ozzies's top 2 choices for the last outfield spot were Ramirez and Owens - Ozzie preferred 2 swing at everything slap hitting types over the far more talented player. Fortunately, Quinten took quick advantage of his opportunity

35th and Shields
04-19-2008, 05:40 PM
Usually having speed is somewhat synonymous with playing second base. not that fields is terribly slow but i don't think he has quick enough feet for the dp ball

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2008, 11:50 PM
A lot, at 2b.
That's fine for a ss.
We have average SS production at an offensive position, 2B. No need for it on a long term basis2B is NOT an offensive position. If you write off the entire right side of the infield, you're in trouble. Most teams have 1B with no range and very little glove; your 2B has to pick up some of that.

Up the middle = defense first
Corners = offense first

Frater Perdurabo
04-20-2008, 05:57 AM
Up the middle = defense first
Corners = offense first

I still think 3B defense is important, too.

California Sox
04-20-2008, 06:07 AM
And I strongly disagree. "Up the middle" are defense-first positions; catcher, SS, 2B, CF. The corners are offense-first positions.

“Guys who can field you can shake out of any old tree. Find me guys who can hit.” - Rogers Hornsby

Nellie_Fox
04-21-2008, 12:47 AM
“Guys who can field you can shake out of any old tree. Find me guys who can hit.” - Rogers HornsbyHornsby's record as a manager: 701-812.

FedEx227
04-21-2008, 12:59 AM
Hornsby's record as a manager: 701-812.

Hahaha, exactly. Defense is just as much apart of the game as offense. Close games are won and lost by defense.

WhiteSox5187
04-21-2008, 12:59 AM
Hornsby's record as a manager: 701-812.
Although to be fair, didn't he manage some awful Browns teams? And a bad Dodgers team in the '30s too??

Mohoney
04-21-2008, 02:05 AM
When it's all said and done, Josh Fields' primary position might end up being DH. It seems like the spot where you get the most value out of him.

soxinem1
04-21-2008, 07:15 AM
2B is NOT an offensive position. If you write off the entire right side of the infield, you're in trouble. Most teams have 1B with no range and very little glove; your 2B has to pick up some of that.

Up the middle = defense first
Corners = offense first

Traditionally, I agree with you. But not in the recent era.

Most of the 2B in MLB today are there because of their offensive skills. This is also true for most SS.

I don't know how many times on nationally broadcast games I hear the announcer say some thing like 'Well, he did make 29 errors last year, but who wouldn't want that offense out of that position?'

Stringer
04-21-2008, 07:32 AM
I still think 3B defense is important, too.


cosign

Nellie_Fox
04-21-2008, 10:55 AM
Traditionally, I agree with you. But not in the recent era.

Most of the 2B in MLB today are there because of their offensive skills. This is also true for most SS.

I don't know how many times on nationally broadcast games I hear the announcer say some thing like 'Well, he did make 29 errors last year, but who wouldn't want that offense out of that position?'That doesn't make them right. Saying it into a microphone doesn't add credibility to what you say.

TomBradley72
04-21-2008, 11:05 AM
Hornsby's record as a manager: 701-812.

Well played.

doublem23
04-21-2008, 11:08 AM
:gah:

Josh Fields at 2nd... Did you guys see him play third last year? The only way I want him called up to the Show again is if the Sox take his mitt and encase it in a 2-ton concrete block and drop it somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean to ensure there's no way anyone ever even remotely considers sticking him in the field again.

Josh Fields = DH.

doublem23
04-21-2008, 11:09 AM
Hornsby's record as a manager: 701-812.

Yeah, but what was his record in fantasy baseball?

TomBradley72
04-21-2008, 11:11 AM
Although to be fair, didn't he manage some awful Browns teams? And a bad Dodgers team in the '30s too??

Not to hijack...but he completely mismanaged the '36 Browns...no way were they a 95 loss team.

soxinem1
04-22-2008, 03:43 PM
That doesn't make them right. Saying it into a microphone doesn't add credibility to what you say.

It should, because a large majority of MLB teams have offensive-type players at 2B, and many of them are defensiveley challenged. The announcers are just calling what they see.

And this is not just at 2B. Most managers today will sacrifice defense for offense, and Ozzie has fallen in this category several times since his first day as manager here.

doublem23
04-22-2008, 04:46 PM
It should, because a large majority of MLB teams have offensive-type players at 2B, and many of them are defensiveley challenged. The announcers are just calling what they see.

And this is not just at 2B. Most managers today will sacrifice defense for offense, and Ozzie has fallen in this category several times since his first day as manager here.

There's a difference between sacrificing some defense for a guy who can hit, and playing a total hack out of position just for the sake of his bat.

Just because someone is a bad defender, doesn't mean there aren't still varying levels of bad defense.

WhiteSox5187
04-22-2008, 05:42 PM
There's a difference between sacrificing some defense for a guy who can hit, and playing a total hack out of position just for the sake of his bat.

Just because someone is a bad defender, doesn't mean there aren't still varying levels of bad defense.
I agree, I think that if Fields can hit the Sox will find SOME place for him to play. I know that Thome is getting older and Dye might be gone, but I can't recall the last time a guy got called up and went DIRECTLY to play DH. I'm sure it has happened, I just can't remember when or with who. The Sox dealt with Frank's bad D for years at first, just like the A's and Cardinals put up with McGwire's bad D, if you can hit and put up numbers like people are saying Fields will put up, they'll find him a place on the team.

PennStater98r
04-23-2008, 09:26 AM
There are those that think baseball is a defensive game, and don't want to think offense plays a part in it. Then there are those that would love a team with David Ortiz Thome Konerko Pujols et. all and would find positions to stick um. We have a great balance of offense and defense right now, so why mess with it.

I agree with your assessment of baseball needing to be a good balance. However, a .150 hitting, striking out position player that starts just isn't the right balance - no matter how good his defense. See the Brian Anderson experiment. When you have a dead spot in your line-up like that in the American League - you tend to see a lot of runners stranded.

If Uribe continues to hit as poorly as he is - it has to end.

Craig Grebeck
04-23-2008, 10:53 AM
I don't understand the move we're going to replace a guy at 2B who plays really good D with a strong arm who hits .240 20hr 70rbi, for a poor fielding 2B who will hit .250 30 hr 80 rbi and strike out just as much...

I'm on board with whoever mentioned moving fields. If Crede proves he can make it through the season(as it was said no contract would be discussed until afterwards) then lets move fields. Or how about this July deadline deal


CWS get: 2B Brian Roberts

BAL get: 3B Josh Fields
P Wes Whisler
2B/SS Juan Uribe

Gosh i'm a hypocrite. I hate it when people play GM/manager... oh well might as well finish it here's the lineup...


CF Swisher
2B Roberts
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
LF Quentin
3B creD
SS Cabrera( its like having another lead off hitter)


hey look no uribe:happybday
I think I just puked a little bit.

WhiteSox5187
04-23-2008, 10:55 AM
I think I just puked a little bit.
You wouldn't want Brian Roberts on this team?

Craig Grebeck
04-23-2008, 11:28 AM
You wouldn't want Brian Roberts on this team?
I like what Roberts brings to a team, but there's no way in hell I'd add him for what the Orioles are demanding. A MIF in his 30's who experienced career highs in power numbers around the time that he was juicing aren't worth much.

Trading Fields for Roberts would be a nightmare, adding Whisler and Uribe on top of it is beyond foolish. Trading Fields is a mistake, lest you want to pay Joe Crede 12 million a year.

WhiteSox5187
04-23-2008, 02:13 PM
I like what Roberts brings to a team, but there's no way in hell I'd add him for what the Orioles are demanding. A MIF in his 30's who experienced career highs in power numbers around the time that he was juicing aren't worth much.

Trading Fields for Roberts would be a nightmare, adding Whisler and Uribe on top of it is beyond foolish. Trading Fields is a mistake, lest you want to pay Joe Crede 12 million a year.
Well the line up that you cited above was contingent upon Crede re-signing. If we wide up re-signing Crede we may as well go ahead and trade Fields. Big if though...personally if there was a way we could land Roberts without giving up Fields (or any of our "key" guys) I'd love to have him here. He'd be a great leadoff guy and we could move Swish down in the order and use his power more AND no more Juan!

ode to veeck
04-23-2008, 04:18 PM
Well if he means what I think he means, 2B isn't as critical as the other two. And I think we can agree on that.

But nevertheless, you want something more than Fields.

no we won't agree on that, 2B is involved in just as many plays at 2nd as SS

Bigfoot38
04-23-2008, 04:25 PM
Well the line up that you cited above was contingent upon Crede re-signing. If we wide up re-signing Crede we may as well go ahead and trade Fields. Big if though...personally if there was a way we could land Roberts without giving up Fields (or any of our "key" guys) I'd love to have him here. He'd be a great leadoff guy and we could move Swish down in the order and use his power more AND no more Juan!


Swish was getting criticized in Oakland because in clutch situations he would walk instead of hitting the ball. With that said and his pace this year I would leave him atop the order

Craig Grebeck
04-23-2008, 07:07 PM
Swish was getting criticized in Oakland because in clutch situations he would walk instead of hitting the ball. With that said and his pace this year I would leave him atop the order
Those people are idiots.

Daver
04-23-2008, 07:13 PM
Trading Fields is a mistake,
Playing him at third is one also.
lest you want to pay Joe Crede 12 million a year.


There is no salary cap in baseball.

santo=dorf
04-23-2008, 07:23 PM
Salary cap or not, the sox can't afford Crede for $12 million a year unless they build the team around him which would be beyond stupid. Let's sign everyone on the team to $10 million deals! There is no salary cap in baseball.

santo=dorf
04-23-2008, 07:26 PM
We also rode that philosophy to 92 wins back in 2006.
:scratch::?:

Waaaayyy too much wrong with this post. The 2006 offense was not a "hacking" team.

Daver
04-23-2008, 07:30 PM
Salary cap or not, the sox can't afford Crede for $12 million a year unless they build the team around him which would be beyond stupid. Let's sign everyone on the team to $10 million deals! There is no salary cap in baseball.

So you are the accountant for the White Sox?

santo=dorf
04-23-2008, 07:34 PM
So you are the accountant for the White Sox?
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Since you hate it when people implied stuff from your posts, please explain what exactly you mean with the response of "there is no salary cap in baseball" when it is questioned if the Sox should or are even capable of paying a player like Joe Crede to a contract similar to what Adrian Beltre got three years ago. Are you an accountant for the White Sox?

Daver
04-23-2008, 08:07 PM
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Since you hate it when people implied stuff from your posts, please explain what exactly you mean with the response of "there is no salary cap in baseball" when it is questioned if the Sox should or are even capable of paying a player like Joe Crede to a contract similar to what Adrian Beltre got three years ago. Are you an accountant for the White Sox?

I never claimed to be. I stick to the facts, there is no salary cap in baseball, and unless you are an accountant for the White Sox you are no one to judge what they can and can't afford. How anything can be implied from that is beyond me. My statement does not imply a damn thing.

ondafarm
05-07-2008, 02:10 PM
I never claimed to be. I stick to the facts, there is no salary cap in baseball, and unless you are an accountant for the White Sox you are no one to judge what they can and can't afford. How anything can be implied from that is beyond me. My statement does not imply a damn thing.

Okay, I hate to agree with Daver. ((Note to self: Check for full moon tonight.)) However, he is right, as in correct, here. Unless you are their accountant, or as implied, have access to their books, you simply cannot say what the White Sox can and cannot afford, beyond the limits of sensibility that is. Could the White Sox afford to sell all their tickets for half-price one night of the week? Nobody thought so until half-price Mondays caught on. Could the concession stands give away free soda to anybody who claims to be a designated driver? A lot of people may say nuts but until I gave up alcohol for a year, I never pulled DD duty and I don't recall ever being charged for my soda in any bar.

The Sox could afford Crede at $12 million per year. Will they pay him is another story.

brumski
05-07-2008, 04:52 PM
I love how some of you jump all over this as being a bad idea. I posted the same thing about Jerry Owens a week ago and it was deleted. I read all these posts about the intricacies of playing 2B. What? Versus CF and 3B? these are professional athletes that we are talking about here. This is not some fat guy on the couch trying to play 2B. I think it is a perfectly legitimate idea and considering how our OF is pretty stacked, might be a good way for Owens to stick around a while...

voodoochile
05-07-2008, 06:19 PM
I love how some of you jump all over this as being a bad idea. I posted the same thing about Jerry Owens a week ago and it was deleted. I read all these posts about the intricacies of playing 2B. What? Versus CF and 3B? these are professional athletes that we are talking about here. This is not some fat guy on the couch trying to play 2B. I think it is a perfectly legitimate idea and considering how our OF is pretty stacked, might be a good way for Owens to stick around a while...


First, if you'll check the dates, you'll notice it had been dead for about 2 weeks before it was brought back just today.

Second, we don't delete threads. If you don't see yours in the forum you started it in, you might try looking in other forums or for threads with similar topics. Things get merged or moved on a regular basis. What can I say, we try to keep as tidy a board as we can to prevent duplication.

Finally, Owens at 2B is a bad idea. He has no IF experience at all, so he'd be learning everything from the proper place to stand to the proper pivot foot on DP's down to the most basic concept. He probably doesn't have the arm to regularly turn the DP either. Remember, Owens is a recent arrival to organized baseball. He's only been playing it a few years. While it's a nice dream that anyone can learn any position the fact remains, this isn't PS3...

Edit: Oh and here's a link to the thread your thread got merged into.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=100555

Frater Perdurabo
05-07-2008, 07:08 PM
Finally, Owens at 2B is a bad idea. He has no IF experience at all, so he'd be learning everything from the proper place to stand to the proper pivot foot on DP's down to the most basic concept. He probably doesn't have the arm to regularly turn the DP either.

There is an even more basic reason why Owens is, and should not not be, considered at second base: he is a left-handed thrower!

Since 1957, a left-handed fielder has been used at second base just SIX times in a major league baseball game (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/mYfM)!

turners56
05-07-2008, 08:37 PM
Finally, Owens at 2B is a bad idea.

According to a recent call Chris Rongey received during this rain delay, Jerry Owens might be related to Jessie Owens, Jessie Owens can do anything of course, Jerry can play second base too! Rongey questioned his job right after the call.

kitekrazy
05-07-2008, 09:33 PM
:gah:

Josh Fields at 2nd... Did you guys see him play third last year? The only way I want him called up to the Show again is if the Sox take his mitt and encase it in a 2-ton concrete block and drop it somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean to ensure there's no way anyone ever even remotely considers sticking him in the field again.

Josh Fields = DH.

The typical one dimensional Sox player. It seems like they can never have enough 1B/DHs. It seems like the scouting needs to be address in this organization.

Maybe they can trade him for an aging slugger.

ondafarm
05-07-2008, 10:01 PM
Sorry, I guess I brought it back to life.

I think moving an outfielder to second base is a horrible idea. I moved to a new position (2B to catcher) during my career and I had a terrible time doing it. To make it short, there are literally hundreds of things to learn. And my transition actually made sense in a couple of ways. Even playing second, I'd always been involved in the calling of pitches (albeit more as an observer) the positioning and the batters' tendencies. Because I was observant, it took me only three years to learn a new position, semi-related. CF to 2B would be a harder transition.