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View Full Version : Should the Sox Play Ramirez More at 2B?


Hitmen77
04-18-2008, 11:56 AM
What do people think about Uribe playing every day when his batting avg. is .146 and his OBP is .212? Should the Sox let Ramirez start some games at 2B?

On Wednesday Ozzie said that he was going to stick with Uribe every day because of his defense. But this article today makes it sound like Ramirez might get a start in Tampa.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/901654,CST-SPT-soxnt18.article

Thoughts? While I like having OC and Uribe as a good DP combo, Uribe seems like an automatic out and I question whether his hitting is going to get much better. If memory serves correctly, he was flirting with the .200 mark for most of the season last year too before he went on his Sept. hot streak. If we're going to keep Ramirez in the majors, would we be better off giving him some more at bats?

Madvora
04-18-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm ready for it. The future of this team is in Ramirez not Uribe.
Juan is absolutely pathetic at the plate. If Ramirez can just be decent at 2B, then he should stay there. I don't think there's anyway he could hit worse than Uribe.

Scottzilla
04-18-2008, 12:08 PM
I think he should get a couple starts here and there. But I think uribe is saving more runs on defense than he is costing on offense.

CHIsoxNation
04-18-2008, 12:09 PM
I also found it interesting that I guess most guys on the team agree that Ramirez is hands down the best defensive SS on the team. It was somewhere in one of the Sun Times articles this morning.

hi im skot
04-18-2008, 12:11 PM
We should sit Konerko, too. With his average and OBP, he's a wasted roster spot.

Keep playing Uribe, get Ramirez down to Charlotte once Owens is ready to go.

Scottzilla
04-18-2008, 12:14 PM
If Ramirez is that good defensively then I'd rather see him there then Uribe. :)

oeo
04-18-2008, 12:21 PM
I'm trying to remember when Uribe was ever this bad. He's been bad, but not like this. He's rivaling Toby Hall for the most useless offensive player on the team.

Noneck
04-18-2008, 12:24 PM
Ramirez will be next years starting ss, let him go down and hone his skills at ss.

kittle42
04-18-2008, 12:33 PM
We should sit Konerko, too. With his average and OBP, he's a wasted roster spot.

You don't sit a slow-starting player when he is one of your top-caliber hitters.

I swear, there are people on this board who would rather see Ozuna and Anderson play every day and bench Thome and Konerko until they "work it out," which they won't do by sitting on the bench.

russ99
04-18-2008, 12:35 PM
He played 6 years in Cuba, what more does he really have to learn at AAA?

I say give him a few starts a week at CF and 2B to see what he's capable of. He looked pretty solid in that game vs. Oakland and his near homer was off a breaking ball, so the Serrano comparisons don't fly.

Uribe needs to hit better a lot more than Ramirez needs to go to AAA, so the pressure is on him to keep his job.

If Ramirez is still struggling after 100 ABs or so, that would be the time to send him down, not now.

Noneck
04-18-2008, 12:36 PM
You don't sit a slow-starting player when he is one of your top-caliber hitters.

I swear, there are people on this board who would rather see Ozuna and Anderson play every day and bench Thome and Konerko until they "work it out," which they won't do by sitting on the bench.
Can't put 20m in a mattress and get no return on the investment.

VeeckAsInWreck
04-18-2008, 12:39 PM
Although Uribe is cold at the plate right now, he is bound to heat up and when he does watch out. But right now his defense has been very good at second. His arm has really helped turn double plays. For as much as I liked Iguchi, he can't touch Uribe's arm.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

balke
04-18-2008, 12:40 PM
No. I have never read or heard anywhere that he's the best 2Bman or SS defensively. The Sox scored 5 runs last night, and it was a defensive blunder that started the rally for the O's. I'd rather not have defensive blunders, and keep this 20 + double plays turned thing going on that the Sox have going.

Uribe will get hot, then get cold. Hitting wise, I don't think Ramirez is going to wow anyone with a .330 avg or 30 Hr's right away. Let him get some starts here and there, but don't blame last night's loss on Uribe. That was A.J. losing focus, and a the bullpen unable to convert on consecutive days.

Chicken Dinner
04-18-2008, 12:42 PM
Although Uribe is cold at the plate right now, he is bound to heat up and when he does watch out. But right now his defense has been very good at second. His arm has really helped turn double plays. For as much as I liked Iguchi, he can't touch Uribe's arm.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Uribe also has stopped a few triples being the cut-off man. Don't substitute marginal offense for good defense.

asindc
04-18-2008, 12:44 PM
I'm trying to remember when Uribe was ever this bad. He's been bad, but not like this. He's rivaling Toby Hall for the most useless offensive player on the team.

I agree. Uribe is as bad as pitchers in the NL at this point. I don't get the sense that any AL pitcher fears pitching to him now. With that said, as long as the current lineup is a winning formula, I say stick with it.

hi im skot
04-18-2008, 12:50 PM
You don't sit a slow-starting player when he is one of your top-caliber hitters.

I swear, there are people on this board who would rather see Ozuna and Anderson play every day and bench Thome and Konerko until they "work it out," which they won't do by sitting on the bench.

I totally agree...I suppose I should have used teal.

russ99
04-18-2008, 12:54 PM
Although Uribe is cold at the plate right now, he is bound to heat up and when he does watch out. .

We were waiting for that all last season...

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2008, 01:05 PM
Where are all the folks who defended Ozzie for using Mackowiak in CF just to get his bat in the lineup? Why are they not calling for Uribe to be benched?

Don't the Sox need a big bat at 2B? Isn't offense just the most important thing? Isn't defense overrated? :scratch:

For the record, I'm fine with keeping Uribe in the lineup simply for his defense.

If the Sox are relying on the #9 spot in the order to produce more offense, it's a telltale sign that their 3-4 hitters are sucking, and therefore their problems are far worse than lack of production from the #9 spot.

jabrch
04-18-2008, 01:10 PM
Given that we have no significant proven options, I'm ok either way. My gut feeling is that if it aint broke, don't fix it. But if management thinks Ramirez can carry his weight with the glove, and be a significantly better hitter, then I'd be OK with it.

California Sox
04-18-2008, 01:41 PM
Uribe also has stopped a few triples being the cut-off man. Don't substitute marginal offense for good defense.

This is a fine sentiment if you believe Uribe will eventually be somewhere close to average offensively, but there's no way a marginally or even huge upgrade at 2b defense justifies a .212 OBP. If it did, Jose Lind would be in the Hall of Fame.

I have to imagine when Richar gets healthy he'll be given a lot of ABs against right-handed pitching. Personally, I'd send Ramirez to AAA and let him play every day. Cuban league is not MLB. He needs to see a lot of off-speed stuff and people throwing secondary pitches in fastball counts before he's ready to contribute.

Huisj
04-18-2008, 01:46 PM
Has Richar started rehab yet? I haven't seen him show up in any Charlotte box scores yet. But maybe he'll still be the answer at some point this season if Uribe continues to be a zero at the plate.

PorkChopExpress
04-18-2008, 01:51 PM
Uribe's value on defense is in his arm. After Ramirez made that throw from CF to get Emil Brown at second, I wondered if he had a similar arm to Uribe. If that is the case, I wouldn't mind seeing him start at 2B a little more. He's not exactly lighting it up offensively either, but he has sure hit the ball hard a few times.

oeo
04-18-2008, 01:52 PM
Where are all the folks who defended Ozzie for using Mackowiak in CF just to get his bat in the lineup? Why are they not calling for Uribe to be benched?

When there's someone with Mackowiak's bat to play 2nd, let me know.

BTW, has there been any news on Richar's status?

TomBradley72
04-18-2008, 01:52 PM
I don't mind Ramirez getting a start 1/week or so...he seems to improve a little with each appearance and as much as I love Uribe's defense...maybe he needs a break here and there to get his offense on track.

This is as bad as I've ever seen him at the plate.

JermaineDye05
04-18-2008, 02:15 PM
I hear he's brutal there. One thing I noticed in ST was that he didn't charge grounders at 2B, he just waited casually for them to roll to him no matter the speed. Lots of times it made the play a lot closer at 1st then it should have been. The one time I saw him charge a grounder was that barehanded play he made against the Giants.

Hitmen77
04-18-2008, 02:35 PM
Has Richar started rehab yet? I haven't seen him show up in any Charlotte box scores yet. But maybe he'll still be the answer at some point this season if Uribe continues to be a zero at the plate.


BTW, has there been any news on Richar's status?

I haven't heard anything new. But when he was diagnosed with the fractured rib, I thought at the time they said that he'd be out of action about 6 weeks. I have been assuming that he wouldn't be back to the Sox until mid-May at the earliest.

Bob G
04-18-2008, 02:46 PM
I think Uribe will be playing at least until Richar is healthy and ready to return. Ramirez should be sent to AAA where he can play on a daily basis, that's what he needs to do now.

btrain929
04-18-2008, 02:46 PM
Has Richar started rehab yet? I haven't seen him show up in any Charlotte box scores yet. But maybe he'll still be the answer at some point this season if Uribe continues to be a zero at the plate.

Well there's your answer...

Ramirez is athletic enough to not hurt us on defense. We won't know if he's capable of turning the DP's like Uribe until we actually see him in there 2-3-4 games in a row at 2B getting plenty of chances. If he sucks, then he goes down. If he's hot, then our team is better for that chance we gave him.

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-18-2008, 03:01 PM
I think he should get a couple starts here and there. But I think uribe is saving more runs on defense than he is costing on offense.

1000000000% truth...it would be nice to see Alexi hit about .250 and be just as good as Juan has been at 2B this year so far...Tampa Bay wouldnt be a terrible team to try this option out....

It's Dankerific
04-18-2008, 03:06 PM
Given that we have no significant proven options, I'm ok either way. My gut feeling is that if it aint broke, don't fix it. But if management thinks Ramirez can carry his weight with the glove, and be a significantly better hitter, then I'd be OK with it.

in a nice way, is there any decision by management that you're not or would not be OK with? If management decided to give all fans a big pile of **** upon entering the gate would that be alright? What about when Ozzie wants Toby gone and KW wants Toby here (according to a newspaper article based on initial roster decisions for the year). Who do you pick? KW cause hes higher on the organizational chart?

oeo
04-18-2008, 04:05 PM
Ramirez is athletic enough to not hurt us on defense.

Uh...okay.

Athleticism has nothing to do with it. He doesn't appear to be a fundamentally sound defensive player. I'd say he would hurt us more defensively than Pablo.

Madvora
04-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Yes, we we can live with a sub-par offense if our defense is outstanding, but there has to be some cutoff point. You can't really expect to be a competitive team all year with a guy hitting .146 (and dropping) in the lineup.

I know, Thome and Konerko are below .200 as well, but they've proven themselves in this league. Uribe just keeps getting worse and KW already picked up players specifically to replace him. This is definitely his last year on the Sox, there's no need to give him more time if he is not playing as he should.
You have to have some balance between offense and defense. It can't just be one or the other.

Elephant
04-18-2008, 04:56 PM
Uribe is the best SS on the team. It's not like he hasn't helped us win this year.

It would still be nice if Ramirez could hit considerably better than Uribe and not field second much worse. I don't think he's ready to do that--at all.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2008, 07:52 PM
When there's someone with Mackowiak's bat to play 2nd, let me know.

Something tells me you would play Paul Konerko at SS just to keep his bat in the lineup. :tongue:

swish
04-18-2008, 08:08 PM
noooo!!!!!!!!!

Tragg
04-18-2008, 10:28 PM
That would be okay, but I'd try to turn Ramirez into a SS.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2008, 12:27 AM
For the record, I'm fine with keeping Uribe in the lineup simply for his defense.And here we have a Frater/Nellie agreement.:drunken:

hawkjt
04-19-2008, 12:46 AM
Juan is off the hot seat for one day.. way to go ,juanie.