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View Full Version : Is this the greatest rotation ever?


Elephant
04-16-2008, 09:22 PM
I think it is.

:shrug:

hi im skot
04-16-2008, 09:23 PM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/awesome.jpg

:happybday:happybday

MarySwiss
04-16-2008, 09:25 PM
I think it is.

:shrug:

No, you don't. You're just trying to start something.

Mickster
04-16-2008, 09:27 PM
I think it is.

:shrug:

BEST. POST EVER.

Jurr
04-16-2008, 09:27 PM
What if it really was? How funny would that be?

Elephant
04-16-2008, 09:27 PM
No, you don't. You're just trying to start something.

Yeah: a thread about my favorite team this decade (sox)

Mickster
04-16-2008, 09:28 PM
What if it really was? How funny would that be?

I would gladly eat crow.

MarySwiss
04-16-2008, 09:28 PM
Yeah: a thread about my favorite team this decade (sox)

And you have succeeded, my batty friend! :cool:

MCHSoxFan
04-16-2008, 09:34 PM
I think it is.

:shrug:


It could very well be. As long as as EVERYBODY keeps is up, sure.

rdwj
04-16-2008, 09:37 PM
It's going to be great when all 5 top contenders for the AL Cy Young are Sox pitchers. If it's a 5-way tie, do they all get the honor?

chisoxmike
04-16-2008, 09:38 PM
No.

sox1970
04-16-2008, 09:47 PM
:hawk
"I'd take our rotation over anybody's right now....same for the bullpen."

thomas35forever
04-16-2008, 09:50 PM
What? Have we won four World Series in a row with this rotation? Not last time I checked.

Elephant
04-16-2008, 09:50 PM
No.


:nolanventura

Daver
04-16-2008, 10:01 PM
I think it is.

:shrug:

No.

Hitmen77
04-16-2008, 10:01 PM
I think it is.

:shrug:

About a year ago, there was a thread on WSI about how the 2007 White Sox bullpen was the best in the league.

I'm not saying our 08 rotation will go the way of the 07 bullpen - just that it's way too early to talk about how great they are (though I am encouraged).

Elephant
04-16-2008, 10:03 PM
About a year ago, there was a thread on WSI about how the 2007 White Sox bullpen was the best in the league.

I'm not saying our 08 rotation will go the way of the 07 bullpen - just that it's way too early to talk about how great they are (though I am encouraged).

Yeah, you're right. I'll wait another month.

chisoxfanatic
04-16-2008, 10:05 PM
About a year ago, there was a thread on WSI about how the 2007 White Sox bullpen was the best in the league.

I'm not saying our 08 rotation will go the way of the 07 bullpen - just that it's way too early to talk about how great they are (though I am encouraged).
Yes there was. I started that thread. I promise I won't start any other threads claiming any of our pitching is the "best in the league" until the season's over.

This team does have the potential to have dominant 1-5 starters though.

mccoydp
04-16-2008, 10:13 PM
The rotation looks good so far through 14 games.

'05 is the best that I've seen, followed by '94.

kevingrt
04-16-2008, 10:21 PM
"stretch!"

Oldfellah
04-16-2008, 10:23 PM
One day at a time!!

areilly
04-16-2008, 10:36 PM
Wow. Just....wow.

I want to argue this but...I mean...wow.

Wow.

At this rate, Buehrle is shelled 1/3 of his starts, as is Danks. Javy is either spectacular or five and dive, and Contreras and Floyd are pitching way over their heads.

Yeah. Best ever. Jesus.

Dibbs
04-16-2008, 10:38 PM
Bad things happened last year when someone created a best bullpen ever thread.

Elephant
04-16-2008, 10:49 PM
Wow. Just....wow.

I want to argue this but...I mean...wow.

Wow.

At this rate, Buehrle is shelled 1/3 of his starts, as is Danks. Javy is either spectacular or five and dive, and Contreras and Floyd are pitching way over their heads.

Yeah. Best ever. Jesus.

Don't be such a pants-pissing dark cloud.

A. Cavatica
04-16-2008, 10:59 PM
Is this rotation better than the incredibly awesome 2007 bullpen?

ilsox7
04-16-2008, 11:03 PM
This thread is hilarious on many levels. Cheers to the OP!

areilly
04-16-2008, 11:06 PM
I fail to see the pants-pissing in any of what I said. Those are all facts, and nothing the 2008 rotation has done puts them in the discussion of "best rotation ever." Yet. 13 games of hit-or-miss and you're ready to anoint them over, say any of those Braves rotations from the 1990s. Or even the '05 Sox. But hey, that's your prerogative.

Don't be such a pants-pissing dark cloud.

Wow. Just....wow.

I want to argue this but...I mean...wow.

Wow.

At this rate, Buehrle is shelled 1/3 of his starts, as is Danks. Javy is either spectacular or five and dive, and Contreras and Floyd are pitching way over their heads.

Yeah. Best ever. Jesus.

Elephant
04-16-2008, 11:08 PM
Buehrle = Koufax
Contreras = Don Drysdale
Danks = Don Sutton
Floyd = Johnny Podres
We'll find a spot for Vazquez

areilly
04-16-2008, 11:17 PM
Buehrle = Koufax
Contreras = Don Drysdale
Danks = Don Sutton
Floyd = Johnny Podres
We'll find a spot for Vazquez

And hey, while we're at it...

...is Paulie going to crack the 75 HR mark?
...will Bobby save 60 games?
...will Crede drive in 200?
...will AJP hit .400?
...will the Sox win 120 games?

Because, you know, they could. Seriously. Nothing stopping them, right?

Elephant
04-16-2008, 11:19 PM
And hey, while we're at it...

...is Paulie going to crack the 75 HR mark?
...will Bobby save 60 games?
...will Crede drive in 200?
...will AJP hit .400?
...will the Sox win 120 games?

Because, you know, they could. Seriously. Nothing stopping them, right?

Only your negative attitude. Don't be a narc.

BadBobbyJenks
04-16-2008, 11:22 PM
An epic thread. The responses here are fantastic.:rolling:


I just dont know how Ozzie picks between a 21 game winner Buehrle, 23 game winner Javy and a 19 game winner Danks to start game one. Then who does he leave off the 4 man rotation an 18 game winner in Gavin or the 17 game winner Jose?
Man it will be good to have these problems.

Elephant
04-16-2008, 11:24 PM
An epic thread. Do we need to add a teal color for thread titles...the responses here are fantastic.:rolling:


I just dont know how Ozzie picks between a 21 game winner Buehrle, 23 game winner Javy and a 19 game winner Danks to start game one. Then who does he leave off the 4 man rotation an 18 game winner in Gavin or the 17 game winner Jose?
Man it will be good to have these problems.

We'll figure it out when the time comes. Ozzie will point a bony finger at whomever he chooses.

BadBobbyJenks
04-16-2008, 11:27 PM
We'll figure it out when the time comes. Ozzie will point a bony finger at whomever he chooses.

Might as well pull names out of a hat. Look at what this rotation has done the last 5 days. 3 runs in 5 days. This is going to beat the Braves of the early 90s, there is no doubt in my mind. Dont let these Dark Clouds rain on this thread Elephant!

areilly
04-16-2008, 11:35 PM
Might as well pull names out of a hat. Look at what this rotation has done the last 5 days. 3 runs in 5 days. This is going to beat the Braves of the early 90s, there is no doubt in my mind. Dont let these Dark Clouds rain on this thread Elephant!

You left out the sixty perfect innings of spot starts Swisher's going to deliver in September after the hotly-contested 1 through 3 are suspended for a month by MLB for excessive domination of the American League. Now who's the dark cloud?

BadBobbyJenks
04-16-2008, 11:39 PM
You left out the sixty perfect innings of spot starts Swisher's going to deliver in September after the hotly-contested 1 through 3 are suspended for a month by MLB for excessive domination of the American League. Now who's the dark cloud?

You are being ridiculous, we were having a serious discussion about the potentional for the best rotation ever.

ksimpson14
04-16-2008, 11:53 PM
http://www.miketoomeybaseball.com/images/m-pazik_01.JPG

Blueprint1
04-16-2008, 11:59 PM
Nope its not. Isn't about time someone brought up double meat?

peeonwrigley
04-16-2008, 11:59 PM
http://www.miketoomeybaseball.com/images/m-pazik_01.JPG

That belt is earning its keep.

fed ex 4 pasqua
04-17-2008, 12:03 AM
It must be Cooper is the best pitching coach ever. :shrug:

BadBobbyJenks
04-17-2008, 12:04 AM
It must be Cooper is the best pitching coach ever. :shrug:

Good point, it all starts at the top.

Dan Mega
04-17-2008, 12:04 AM
It must be Cooper is the best pitching coach ever. :shrug:

And remember that Ozzie and Kenny won us a world series in 2005.

Lorenzo Barcelo
04-17-2008, 12:09 AM
That belt is earning its keep.


Sweet a Chad Krueter cameo.:bandance:

HebrewHammer
04-17-2008, 12:15 AM
This thread makes my day. We've got to keep this one stuck for the season.

Gavin the Great goes tomorrow against some clown named "Guthrie." My prediction? 9 innings, 20 K's and 7 "surrenders" for Gavin. Gavin will also go 4-4 with 4 Grand slams. They Sox will still use a DH, but Gavin will also be allowed to bat 10th.

scarsofthumper
04-17-2008, 12:19 AM
http://www.weeklyreader.com/readandwriting/content/binary/stephen%20colbert.jpg

Great Rotation...or GREATEST Rotation?

LoveYourSuit
04-17-2008, 12:33 AM
:threadsucks



Sorry boys, I can't blow the victory horn 3 weeks into April ... I had to pull this image out (my favorite).


I had discussions with other Sox fans around this time last year and some were predicting our April bullpen to become "one of the best in baseball history the rest of the year."


One game at a time.

WhiteSox5187
04-17-2008, 12:43 AM
Isn't almost a year ago to the date we saw the "Greatest Bullpen Ever" thread?

Great use of Colbert. That was my second thought when I saw the thread title, my first thought was of the greatest bullpen ever tag.

Navarro's Talent
04-17-2008, 12:52 AM
Sweet a Chad Krueter cameo.:bandance:
This thread has officially come full circle. :D:

Chilli Palmer
04-17-2008, 02:03 AM
Wow. Just....wow.

I want to argue this but...I mean...wow.

Wow.

At this rate, Buehrle is shelled 1/3 of his starts, as is Danks. Javy is either spectacular or five and dive, and Contreras and Floyd are pitching way over their heads.

Yeah. Best ever. Jesus.


Who pissed on your parade?

ThePopeDonnPall
04-17-2008, 03:09 AM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/awesome.jpg

:happybday:happybday

A sox win and a t-rex in an f-14...this is the best night ever!

asg2003ws2005
04-17-2008, 04:23 AM
I think it is.

:shrug:no.

Frater Perdurabo
04-17-2008, 06:08 AM
I love waking up to this kind of schtick. It reminds me of both Adam West and John Paul Jones.

kevingrt
04-17-2008, 06:43 AM
I'm trying to figure out if the ALDS started tomorrow we would be playing any of four teams considering there is a four way tie for the second best record in the AL.

So who would we throw out on the bump for this best rotation ever? I mean Jose is out of the discussion because he just pitched. Burly has looked solid ever since the opening day debacle. Javy is hit or miss. Same as Danks. But Gavin Floyd is like young Josh Beckett out there and could really showcase himself in the playoffs like the '03 or '02 (don't remember) Marlins did. So my rotation would be Burly, Vazquez, Floyd, Contreras and Danks would kinda be like Garland circa '05 playoffs.



PS: This is awesome. I could not stop laughing typing this. :dtroll:

HawkDJ
04-17-2008, 06:45 AM
Yes, unquestionably yes. Why do we even have a bullpen?

munchman33
04-17-2008, 07:16 AM
We don't even have the best performing rotation in the division. If you're going to call this the best ever for us, you'll have to admit the they Royals currently have the best rotation in the history of baseball.

Now that Royals argument is ridiculous, right? So why would the other be anything but that at this point?

Please, fans of other teams come here. You're making us look bad. I'd use the "this thread sucks" thing, but I don't think it does. We need a "this thread is idiotic" tag.

BringBackBlkJack
04-17-2008, 07:42 AM
We don't even have the best performing rotation in the division. If you're going to call this the best ever for us, you'll have to admit the they Royals currently have the best rotation in the history of baseball.

Now that Royals argument is ridiculous, right? So why would the other be anything but that at this point?

Please, fans of other teams come here. You're making us look bad. I'd use the "this thread sucks" thing, but I don't think it does. We need a "this thread is idiotic" tag.

As much as I'd like and hope this thread to be affirmed, I echo the sentiment above.

white sox bill
04-17-2008, 08:11 AM
Ask me about mid-summer. Until then, no

cws05champ
04-17-2008, 08:16 AM
We don't even have the best performing rotation in the division. If you're going to call this the best ever for us, you'll have to admit the they Royals currently have the best rotation in the history of baseball.

Now that Royals argument is ridiculous, right? So why would the other be anything but that at this point?

Please, fans of other teams come here. You're making us look bad. I'd use the "this thread sucks" thing, but I don't think it does. We need a "this thread is idiotic" tag.
How can this be the best rotation ever when a future HOF like DLS is not on it? :smile:

doublem23
04-17-2008, 08:22 AM
How can this be the best rotation ever when a future HOF like DLS is not on it? :smile:

That's true... The Stockton Ports probably have the best rotation ever assembled, especially when you consider DLS is currently the 4th-best starter on that team.

munchman33
04-17-2008, 08:24 AM
How can this be the best rotation ever when a future HOF like DLS is not on it? :smile:

EXACTLY! :cool:

palehozenychicty
04-17-2008, 08:33 AM
Nah.

Jurr
04-17-2008, 08:39 AM
I don't know what's making me laugh more...the hilarious nature of the thread (including the shrug) or the people that get up in arms trying to defend why this rotation is NOT THE BEST EVER.

ChiTownTrojan
04-17-2008, 08:41 AM
The 2005 rotation is the best rotation that was ever assembled, or ever will be assembled. Any comparisons to 2005 are ludicrous.

The 2008 White Sox rotation may go down as the best rotation to ever not take place in the year of 2005.

Jurr
04-17-2008, 08:44 AM
The 2005 rotation is the best rotation that was ever assembled, or ever will be assembled. Any comparisons to 2005 are ludicrous.

The 2008 White Sox rotation may go down as the best rotation to ever not take place in the year of 2005.
Ummm...are you serious?

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 08:46 AM
We don't even have the best performing rotation in the division. If you're going to call this the best ever for us, you'll have to admit the they Royals currently have the best rotation in the history of baseball.

Now that Royals argument is ridiculous, right? So why would the other be anything but that at this point?

Please, fans of other teams come here. You're making us look bad. I'd use the "this thread sucks" thing, but I don't think it does. We need a "this thread is idiotic" tag.

THIS IS TRUTH.

LISTEN UP ELEPHANT

WE DO NOT EVEN HAVE THE BEST ROTATION IN THE CITY


ever hear of a team called the chicagoland area cubs?

Jurr
04-17-2008, 08:50 AM
THIS IS TRUTH.

LISTEN UP ELEPHANT

WE DO NOT EVEN HAVE THE BEST ROTATION IN THE CITY


ever hear of a team called the chicagoland area cubs?
Haaa haaa haaa!
This thread is getting better and better. It's anti-Horsemaster in its lack of depth, but the humor is great. The T-Rex makes it even better.

And to munchman, come on, bro! If someone comes onto this site and sees this thread, they would have to know that the original poster can't be serious.

bigsoxfan420
04-17-2008, 08:51 AM
I'm just excited to see Floyd pitch tonight. Let's make it two win/greart starts in a row! Especially since he NOT going against the Tiggers.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 08:51 AM
Where did Man Soo Lee figure in to all of this?

I have to think his legacy is helping us to pitch like the dynamos we so clearly are

Jurr
04-17-2008, 08:57 AM
Where did Man Soo Lee figure in to all of this?

I have to think his legacy is helping us to pitch like the dynamos we so clearly are
As far as the pitching staff goes, Kenny has been a puppet dictator run by Man Soo for years. All rotation decisions have been made by our former bullpen catcher since the first conversation he had with KW.

*Phone rings*
"Hello?"
"Kenny!!! Man Soo here!!!"
"What is it, Mr.Lee? Make it quick..I'm in an airport in Phoenix."
"Danny Wright...he...he..."
"Yes, Man Soo....?"
"Danny Wright...he sucks! No more Danny Wright!"
*Abrupt click*
"Fair enough."

soxfanatlanta
04-17-2008, 09:13 AM
As far as the pitching staff goes, Kenny has been a puppet dictator run by Man Soo for years. All rotation decisions have been made by our former bullpen catcher since the first conversation he had with KW.

*Phone rings*
"Hello?"
"Kenny!!! Man Soo here!!!"
"What is it, Mr.Lee? Make it quick..I'm in an airport in Phoenix."
"Danny Wright...he...he..."
"Yes, Man Soo....?"
"Danny Wright...he sucks! No more Danny Wright!"
*Abrupt click*
"Fair enough."

:roflmao:

Lip Man 1
04-17-2008, 09:40 AM
Elephant asks: Is this the greatest rotation ever?

:D::D::D:

Lip

kevingrt
04-17-2008, 09:40 AM
For some people I think the background of this thread needs to be teal.

Could be one of the greatest threads in WSI history. Definitely nominated for thread of '08 so far, especially since it hasn't been tossed in the roadhouse yet.

Over/under on number of pages before this see the roadhouse, 8.5. PM me if you wanna get some action.

munchman33
04-17-2008, 09:48 AM
Haaa haaa haaa!
And to munchman, come on, bro! If someone comes onto this site and sees this thread, they would have to know that the original poster can't be serious.

Do they? People here defend Brian Anderson. AND THEY REALLY MEAN IT. After that, I can't believe anything is a joke anymore.

Procol Harum
04-17-2008, 10:03 AM
After reading some of the idiocy--and the great satire--in this thread it's clear that now, more than ever, it's time to designate an official "opposite" designation for those johnny-come-lately, White Sox kool-aid-drinkers at the opposite end of the spectrum from the "Dark Clouds."

I nominate: Sunbeams

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 10:05 AM
Do they? People here defend Brian Anderson. AND THEY REALLY MEAN IT. After that, I can't believe anything is a joke anymore.

Brian Anderson recently hit a De Los Santo pitch all the way to the alternate universe where DLS is a player to lament losing.

He has that much power, and yet you spurn him?

Fie.

BadBobbyJenks
04-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Brian Anderson recently hit a De Los Santo pitch all the way to the alternate universe where DLS is a player to lament losing.

He has that much power, and yet you spurn him?

Fie.


Well played sir.

VeeckAsInWreck
04-17-2008, 10:17 AM
We all know the best rotation the Sox ever had has to be the 1994 White Sox. Lousy strike!!!!

McDowell
Fernandez
Alvarez
Bere
Sanderson

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 10:22 AM
I'm prettttttty sure the best rotation ever assembled was the 2005 Yankees:

Randy Johnson
Carl Pavano
Mike Mussina
Jaret Wright
Kevin Brown

Those are all guys Steinbrenner has heard of!

voodoochile
04-17-2008, 10:26 AM
After reading some of the idiocy--and the great satire--in this thread it's clear that now, more than ever, it's time to designate an official "opposite" designation for those johnny-come-lately, White Sox kool-aid-drinkers at the opposite end of the spectrum from the "Dark Clouds."

I nominate: Sunbeams

Let the sun shine...
Let the sun shine...
Let the sun shine...
The sun shine in... :)

We prefer the term realists...

kitekrazy
04-17-2008, 10:27 AM
The greatest one has to be when the Orioles had four 20 game winners.

Lip Man 1
04-17-2008, 10:33 AM
Veeck:

I don't know how old you are but in the beginning of the past century the Sox had a season when they had four 20 game winners. As much as I loved the 94 rotation, it wasn't even the best of the modern era. The 1983 rotation was better and check out some of the numbers posted by the Sox staffs in 1963 and 1964 for example. They may have been the best in my lifetime although some of the staff's from the late 50's were pretty damn good.

Judgments on questions like this are colored by the age of the person making the statement.

Lip

Dan Mega
04-17-2008, 10:33 AM
Take the any of the 5th starters from 2001-2004 and make a rotation out of them.

THAT is the best rotation ever.

Closed.

ChiSoxPatF
04-17-2008, 10:33 AM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/awesome.jpg

I don't know if this is a stock pic, but it has had me in tears for the last 5 minutes laughing so hard. Kudos.

sullythered
04-17-2008, 10:34 AM
Brian Anderson recently hit a De Los Santo pitch all the way to the alternate universe where DLS is a player to lament losing.

He has that much power, and yet you spurn him?

Fie.
Tee. Hee.

Zisk77
04-17-2008, 10:35 AM
Blow it up kenny!

Dan Mega
04-17-2008, 10:36 AM
Veeck:

I don't know how old you are but in the beginning of the past century the Sox had a season when they had four 20 game winners. As much as I loved the 94 rotation, it wasn't even the best of the modern era. The 1983 rotation was better and check out some of the numbers posted by the Sox staffs in 1963 and 1964 for example. They may have been the best in my lifetime although some of the staff's from the late 50's were pretty damn good.

Judgments on questions like this are colored by the age of the person making the statement.

Lip

It can be argued that players from the 80's and before didn't have to face the talent from the 90's on as baseball expanded into more of a worldwide sport. Back then players didn't come from dozens of different countries, so the talent pool has expanded considerably.

sullythered
04-17-2008, 10:40 AM
This rotation is close to the tops in Sox history, if only it were not for the '99 club.

:JB "Hi, guys."

BadBobbyJenks
04-17-2008, 10:41 AM
Sorry folks, but when Gavin "The Great" Floyd is your 5th starter, you have the greatest rotation ever. Game over.

voodoochile
04-17-2008, 10:42 AM
It can be argued that players from the 80's and before didn't have to face the talent from the 90's on as baseball expanded into more of a worldwide sport. Back then players didn't come from dozens of different countries, so the talent pool has expanded considerably.

Yeah, and the ball wasn't a golf ball and the players weren't bloated and steroid boosted and the ballparks weren't all designed to induce homeruns.

It's tough to judge players across the years because technology and other factors play such a huge role.

Dan Mega
04-17-2008, 10:44 AM
Yeah, and the ball wasn't a golf ball and the players weren't bloated and steroid boosted and the ballparks weren't all designed to induce homeruns.

It's tough to judge players across the years because technology and other factors play such a huge role.

Yep. I wasn't trying to downplay the achievements of past players but different eras really can't be compared because of all the different factors. IMO, there are only a handful of players that I could say with confidence that would be successful in every era. Babe Ruth, A-Rod, Willie Mays, Billy Koch, etc.

doublem23
04-17-2008, 10:45 AM
Brian Anderson recently hit a De Los Santo pitch all the way to the alternate universe where DLS is a player to lament losing.

He has that much power, and yet you spurn him?

Fie.

Brian Anderson power is still only a drop in the bucket that is Joe Borchard power.

VeeckAsInWreck
04-17-2008, 10:50 AM
Veeck:

I don't know how old you are but in the beginning of the past century the Sox had a season when they had four 20 game winners. As much as I loved the 94 rotation, it wasn't even the best of the modern era. The 1983 rotation was better and check out some of the numbers posted by the Sox staffs in 1963 and 1964 for example. They may have been the best in my lifetime although some of the staff's from the late 50's were pretty damn good.

Judgments on questions like this are colored by the age of the person making the statement.

Lip

No you're right, I've gone through the years and there were definitely some more impressive rotations in Sox history but for me I still feel a sting for what could have been in 1994.

No doubt that in the 60's the Sox had a great tandem with Horlen and Peters. And in the second half of '83 the rotation was damn near invincible.

soxinem1
04-17-2008, 10:52 AM
Ask again around October 25, 2008.

Lip Man 1
04-17-2008, 10:56 AM
Dan:

You're forgetting that the "talent" you talk about coming in from around the world, was off set by expansion which diluted it.

And I seem to recall a number of Latin American players in MLB throughout the 60's and 70's for example.

Let's put it this way...just one example of how loaded MLB teams were in pitching say in the late 50's / early 60's. Gary Peters and Joe Horlen two terrific pitchers, spent at least FIVE YEARS in the minor leagues each before they could crack the Sox rotation.

I'm biased just like the next guy but in my mind there is absolutely no question that the deepest, best pitching was found in the 1960's in both leagues. There were guys on teams who were 4th starters that would be bona fide aces, number one guys, today.

If the Sox today had a staff comprised of the units they had in the 60's (starters like Peters, Horlen, Pizarro, John, Buzhardt and a bullpen with guys like Wilhelm, Locker, Wood for example), they'd absolutely dominate the league. There is no doubt in my mind.

Lip

santo=dorf
04-17-2008, 11:06 AM
And remember that Ozzie and Kenny won us a world series in 2005.
Link?

That's the first time I've ever heard that mentioned before on these boards. Do you think this championship victory will prevent them from ever making a questionable or bad decision/move again?

doublem23
04-17-2008, 11:11 AM
Link?

That's the first time I've ever heard that mentioned before on these boards. Do you think this championship victory will prevent them from ever making a questionable or bad decision/move again?

Perhaps it gives them a little more credibility and leeway in those questionable decisions over guys who post on an internet message board.

voodoochile
04-17-2008, 11:14 AM
Perhaps it gives them a little more credibility and leeway in those questionable decisions over guys who post on an internet message board.

NONONONONONONO!!!

Winning a WS title for the first time in over 80 years is a sure sign the two men responsible for building and leading the team to said victory are incompetent boobs who will never make another good decision ever again. You see they used up all their luck on the first one and are destined for failure forever and ever. Thus every decision/transaction simply has to be the WORST ever and will lead the team to guaranteed failure for the next 80 years (or however long these miscreants are allowed to tarnish Sox fandom with their presence).

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 11:14 AM
Brian Anderson power is still only a drop in the bucket that is Joe Borchard power.

What sort of towering power are we talking about here? Guard tower power? Water tower power?

santo=dorf
04-17-2008, 11:16 AM
Or maybe you can be in the middle of the pack by NOT giving them a free pass for the next 2,005 years and NOT thinking they were a couple of lucky stooges. :shrug:

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 11:16 AM
NONONONONONONO!!!

Winning a WS title for the first time in over 80 years is a sure sign the two men responsible for building and leading the team to said victory are incompetent boobs who will never make another good decision ever again. You see they used up all their luck on the first one and are destined for failure forever and ever. Thus every decision/transaction simply has to be the WORST ever and will lead the team to guaranteed failure for the next 80 years (or however long these miscreants are allowed to tarnish Sox fandom with their presence).

Come off it. No one has ever said that.

However, people do say the just as ridiculous contrapositive to your hypothetical criticism which is: "12 games in October 2005 justify every move these guys will ever make in the future. If you're so smart, why didn't you happen to win 11 games in October on the backs of freakish (even for their season totals, but especially for their careers) performances by 4 awesome pitchers?"

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 11:17 AM
Or maybe you can be in the middle of the pack by NOT giving them a free pass for the next 2,005 years and NOT thinking they were a couple of lucky stooges. :shrug:

:nod:

But back to the topic--they do earn some credibility for assembling the greatest rotation ever :shrug:

doublem23
04-17-2008, 11:19 AM
:nod:

But back to the topic--they do earn some credibility for assembling the greatest rotation ever :shrug:

I think after 100 posts this thread has come full circle.

:wooty:

voodoochile
04-17-2008, 11:21 AM
Come off it. No one has ever said that.

However, people do say the just as ridiculous contrapositive to your hypothetical criticism which is: "12 games in October 2005 justify every move these guys will ever make in the future. If you're so smart, why didn't you happen to win 11 games in October on the backs of freakish (even for their season totals, but especially for their careers) performances by 4 awesome pitchers?"

Oh I see, this thread is only for over the top positive hyperbole by people who mostly feel the other way... My bad...:rolleyes:

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 11:25 AM
Oh I see, this thread is only for over the top positive hyperbole by people who mostly feel the other way... My bad...:rolleyes:

Something like that.

:tealpolice:

:tealtutor:

sullythered
04-17-2008, 11:29 AM
<select all>
<click teal>

WizardsofOzzie
04-17-2008, 11:37 AM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/awesome.jpg

:happybday:happybday
I do believe that's a Calvin & Hobbes reference :bandance:

FielderJones
04-17-2008, 11:44 AM
A sox win and a t-rex in an f-14...this is the best night ever!

That's an F-15; the F-14 is a two-seater.

As for the best Sox rotation ever, you'd be hard pressed to beat the 2.13 staff ERA of my boys (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1906/UPCHA01906.htm), including two shutout innings by my second baseman.

Any time I'm feeling blue, I click on this thread and my spirits immediately soar. Great stuff! :redneck

Procol Harum
04-17-2008, 11:45 AM
Let the sun shine...
Let the sun shine...
Let the sun shine...
The sun shine in... :)

We prefer the term realists...

:tiphat:

Jjav829
04-17-2008, 11:48 AM
Needs more Brian Anderson in center. How can we have the best rotation ever when the best defensive centerfielder ever is sitting on the bench.

peeonwrigley
04-17-2008, 11:54 AM
Needs more Brian Anderson in center. How can we have the best rotation ever when the best defensive centerfielder ever is sitting on the bench.

A staff pitching as mere mortals (say, the 2005 staff during the ALCS) might need such a CF. Not this bunch.

voodoochile
04-17-2008, 11:56 AM
Needs more Brian Anderson in center. How can we have the best rotation ever when the best defensive centerfielder ever is sitting on the bench.

Why would the greatest rotation ever need ANY CF? Heck, put out a starter and a catcher and leave the rest of the team in the dugout to rest up for their at bats.

Think of the possiblities...

LF Jim Thome
CF Frank Thomas
RF Big Papi
3B ARod
SS Prince Fielder
2B Ryan Howard
1B Albert Pujols
C AJ (after all, he's who they know)
DH Prince Fielder (Whoops Edit: Manny)

Dan Mega
04-17-2008, 11:58 AM
Fielder batting twice?

I'd rather see his dad in center.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 12:02 PM
Why would the greatest rotation ever need ANY CF? Heck, put out a starter and a catcher and leave the rest of the team in the dugout to rest up for their at bats.

Think of the possiblities...

LF Jim Thome
CF Frank Thomas
RF Big Papi
3B ARod
SS Prince Fielder
2B Ryan Howard
1B Albert Pujols
C AJ (after all, he's who they know)
DH Prince Fielder (Whoops Edit: Manny)

THIS ISN'T SOFTBALL.

god I hate the American League. Who would bunt on that team?

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Fielder batting twice?

I'd rather see his dad in center.

I used to call sessul feelder "see-sill feld-her"

kraut83
04-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Needs more Brian Anderson in center. How can we have the best rotation ever when the best defensive centerfielder ever is sitting on the bench.

Come on Jjav, best centerfielder ever??? BA will be lucky to be enshrined in the Jeremy Reed wing of the hall of fame.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 12:04 PM
Come on Jjav, best centerfielder ever??? BA will be lucky to be enshrined in the Jeremy Reed wing of the hall of fame.

:welcometowsi:

Jjav829
04-17-2008, 12:07 PM
Come on Jjav, best centerfielder ever??? BA will be lucky to be enshrined in the Jeremy Reed wing of the hall of fame.

Only because Jeremy Reed got a chance to play in Seattle for a while.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5758&d=1208452011

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 12:10 PM
Only because Jeremy Reed got a chance to play in Seattle for a while.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5758&d=1208452011

Brian Anderson uses immaculate grammar and spelling.

I express disbelief and scorn at your inaccurate graphic.

jabrch
04-17-2008, 12:14 PM
Perhaps it gives them a little more credibility and leeway in those questionable decisions over guys who post on an internet message board.

That's my sentiments exactly DoubleM. It isn't that they are always right - it is that the odds of them being right are MUCH larger than the odds that I am right, or that any of us are right. First - they are more skilled at this than I am. Second, they have more information than I do. And third, they have a proven track record of making good baseball decisions.

They make bad/wrong decisions from time to time. Hindsight surely shows this. But I have much more trust with the organization in their hands than with the message board posters who believe they could do a better job.

jabrch
04-17-2008, 12:18 PM
Yeah, and the ball wasn't a golf ball and the players weren't bloated and steroid boosted and the ballparks weren't all designed to induce homeruns.

It's tough to judge players across the years because technology and other factors play such a huge role.

The bats also are a significant difference... Guys today would reject many bats that players in the 50s would hit with. The players today get a fine tuned piece of lumber relative to what their predecessors got.

And don't get me started with body armour...

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 12:23 PM
That's my sentiments exactly DoubleM. It isn't that they are always right - it is that the odds of them being right are MUCH larger than the odds that I am right, or that any of us are right. First - they are more skilled at this than I am. Second, they have more information than I do. And third, they have a proven track record of making good baseball decisions.

They make bad/wrong decisions from time to time. Hindsight surely shows this. But I have much more trust with the organization in their hands than with the message board posters who believe they could do a better job.

75% of MLB GM's and managers are unsuccessful.

I'll buy that they probably know more than the average fan, but what on earth suggests that the odds of them being right is greater?

A lot of GM's and Managers go by supposed truisms and fallacies simply because it's a lot easier than taking a risk and alienating fanbases.

Brian Cashman (or Steinbrenner, depending on how you look at it) signed Sheffield rather than Guerrerro because Sheffield was a more proven commodity and was a better "hedge the bets" move. The Reds hired Dusty Baker because he would create a marketing splash and generally ignorant fans would assume it was a good hire because Dusty "knows how to win"

This is the kind of thinking that is perpetuated around the league. Simply because they understand how to run the team from a business standpoint doesn't mean they're doing what's best for the team. It doesn't even mean they all WANT what's best for the team from a "put the best team on the field" standpoint.

Kenny probably does want what's best for the team and he usually DOES what's best for the team, at least imo, but frankly, I don't see what about the fact that someone has a job in baseball management that they either got from old-boy networking or promotion within the ranks, a job which most people fail at because they don't know what the **** they're doing, somehow means they are more likely to be right in their decision making process.

It's not like JR opens up the hiring process and looks at a lot of qualified candidates for GM. It's not like they all bring him a business plan and say "this is the direction and rigors I will use to build the best team." He picks the guy he thinks will be good as a GM, a guy who has never been a GM before, and says "Be a GM".

balke
04-17-2008, 12:29 PM
Nice to see some optimism. I can only say its gotta be one of the best weeks for starting Sox pitchers in a long time. 0.80 ERA? pretty good.

munchman33
04-17-2008, 12:30 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5758&d=1208452011

I think Kittle's head just exploded.

Dan Mega
04-17-2008, 12:48 PM
Come on Jjav, best centerfielder ever??? BA will be lucky to be enshrined in the Jeremy Reed wing of the hall of fame.

They'll both be lucky to be the Alexei Ramirez HOF.

Remember that strike he threw to 2nd the other day? I mean, nevermind the several times he failed to back up TCQ, but that one good throw proves he's ready.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 12:50 PM
They'll both be lucky to be the Alexei Ramirez HOF.

Remember that strike he threw to 2nd the other day? I mean, nevermind the several times he failed to back up TCQ, but that one good throw proves he's ready.

who ever said TCQ wanted to be backed up.

That would be implying that TCQ ever makes errors :angry::angry::angry:

hi im skot
04-17-2008, 01:27 PM
Heroes aren't made...they're rotated.

kevingrt
04-17-2008, 02:04 PM
Heroes aren't made...they're rotated.

Every 5th day.

doublem23
04-17-2008, 02:21 PM
Or maybe you can be in the middle of the pack by NOT giving them a free pass for the next 2,005 years and NOT thinking they were a couple of lucky stooges. :shrug:

But they just didn't get "lucky" for one year. Take away last year's meltdown, and the Sox 358-290 record (.552 winning percentage) from 2002 on. Yeah, the hardware may be slim, but it's not as if KW and Ozzie haven't been positioning this team to win. Only a quarter of the American League goes to the play-offs every year, and then all hell breaks loose. Even the Braves, who had that fantastic run with John Schuerholz at GM and Bobby Cox as manager (widely considered two of the best men in their respective positions), were only able to win 1 World Series.

If you think the 2005 Sox were just an anomaly, a random set of coincidences of good luck, that had nothing to do with the development and execution of a plan in the front office and dugout well then there's either no arguing with you or no helping you.

SoxGirl4Life
04-17-2008, 02:53 PM
Only because Jeremy Reed got a chance to play in Seattle for a while.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5758&d=1208452011

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time

Elephant
04-17-2008, 02:53 PM
:hmessica

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 03:55 PM
But they just didn't get "lucky" for one year. Take away last year's meltdown, and the Sox 358-290 record (.552 winning percentage) from 2002 on. Yeah, the hardware may be slim, but it's not as if KW and Ozzie haven't been positioning this team to win. Only a quarter of the American League goes to the play-offs every year, and then all hell breaks loose. Even the Braves, who had that fantastic run with John Schuerholz at GM and Bobby Cox as manager (widely considered two of the best men in their respective positions), were only able to win 1 World Series.

If you think the 2005 Sox were just an anomaly, a random set of coincidences of good luck, that had nothing to do with the development and execution of a plan in the front office and dugout well then there's either no arguing with you or no helping you.

Read his post. He's not saying they were lucky. He's saying you should find a middle ground between the opinion that they were lucky and the opinion that the world series justifies all past and present moves

PS: When the Braves didn't win it was because they weren't the best team. Period.

It's all well and good to say "well it's all just luck in the playoffs" but 9 times out of 10 the better team simply wins.

Arizona was a better team than New York. Anaheim was a better team than SF. Florida was a better team than NY. And so on.

doublem23
04-17-2008, 04:14 PM
Arizona was a better team than New York. Anaheim was a better team than SF. Florida was a better team than NY. And so on.

But Arizona wasn't the best team in baseball in 2001, Florida wasn't in 2003, the Red Sox weren't in 2004, and the Cardinals weren't in 2006.

That's not to say these were bad teams (OK, maybe the '06 Cardinals were), just that luck does play a huge part in who survives the post-season.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 04:18 PM
But Arizona wasn't the best team in baseball in 2001, Florida wasn't in 2003, the Red Sox weren't in 2004, and the Cardinals weren't in 2006.

That's not to say these were bad teams (OK, maybe the '06 Cardinals were), just that luck does play a huge part in who survives the post-season.

Arizona had the best pitching in baseball by far in 2001. Florida had the best pitching in baseball by far in 2003. There was no good pitching in baseball in 2004. And I don't know what the **** happened in 2006. I guess that would be the 1 out of 10

santo=dorf
04-17-2008, 04:24 PM
But they just didn't get "lucky" for one year. Take away last year's meltdown, and the Sox 358-290 record (.552 winning percentage) from 2002 on. Yeah, the hardware may be slim, but it's not as if KW and Ozzie haven't been positioning this team to win. Only a quarter of the American League goes to the play-offs every year, and then all hell breaks loose. Even the Braves, who had that fantastic run with John Schuerholz at GM and Bobby Cox as manager (widely considered two of the best men in their respective positions), were only able to win 1 World Series.

If you think the 2005 Sox were just an anomaly, a random set of coincidences of good luck, that had nothing to do with the development and execution of a plan in the front office and dugout well then there's either no arguing with you or no helping you.
...and to that last line, I don't think that at all, yet when I or someone else question a move like signing Erstad, playing Erstad, and then look back and talk about how ****ty it is, the pollyannas assume we are in the party of people who believe it was just one big fluke and we think we could do a better job with the team than KW or Ozzie. :rolleyes:

Why is there no gray area with some of you?

doublem23
04-17-2008, 04:32 PM
Arizona had the best pitching in baseball by far in 2001. Florida had the best pitching in baseball by far in 2003. There was no good pitching in baseball in 2004. And I don't know what the **** happened in 2006. I guess that would be the 1 out of 10

Arizona did not have the best pitching staff in 2001, they just rode Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling in October... Look at some of the other guys on that pitching staff (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ARI/2001.shtml). 2001 was also the same year the M's won 116 games, so it's going to be a tall order convincing me that they weren't the best team in baseball that year.

I'm not discrediting the '01 D-backs, '03 Marlins, etc... I still believe you have to be a good team to make the play-offs, but I think the nature of how you should construct a baseball team for a 162-game marathon doesn't translate well to a short 5 or 7-game series.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 04:38 PM
Arizona did not have the best pitching staff in 2001, they just rode Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling in October... Look at some of the other guys on that pitching staff (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ARI/2001.shtml). 2001 was also the same year the M's won 116 games, so it's going to be a tall order convincing me that they weren't the best team in baseball that year.

Pitching trumps a good lineup, especially in the playoffs.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that you really think the Mariners were better suited for the playoffs than that insane 1,2,3 of Arizona.

It's not like the team that wins the most games is going to win the WS, but the team with the best playoff pitching staff (i.e. best 1,2,3, best bullpen) almost always wins.


I'm not discrediting the '01 D-backs, '03 Marlins, etc... I still believe you have to be a good team to make the play-offs, but I think the nature of how you should construct a baseball team for a 162-game marathon doesn't translate well to a short 5 or 7-game series.

Hey, I don't disagree. The 2003 White Sox would have had a great shot to win the WS but they weren't built to make the playoffs b/c they had no 5th starter and inconsistent closer work. But there's a balance. It's not QUITE a crapshoot. It's "try to design a team that can make the playoffs but that will also be geared up to pitch the other teams the **** out of the playoffs".

It's no coincidence that WS teams are often WC teams--It's exactly the kind of team that's not suited to dominate the reg. season (teams with poor back end rotations and lighter hitting lineups) that is perfectly suited for the playoffs.

It's preferable to have 3 dominant pitchers and a slightly above average lineup to having 5 solid pitchers and an awesome lineup when you're talking about who will succeed in the playoffs. Because of that it seems like "worse" teams (WC teams) are beating "better" teams (i.e. home field advantage teams) and therefore "anything can happen" but really the playoffs are quite predictable.

Jerksticks
04-17-2008, 04:44 PM
Haha, brilliant original post. Loving all the people not understanding it saying, "Too early", "Whoa slow down", "Don't Jinx it", "Only 14 games in" blah blah. Classic responses! Haha!

JSticks

veeter
04-17-2008, 04:51 PM
I think definitely, maybe.

HebrewHammer
04-17-2008, 07:08 PM
As far as the pitching staff goes, Kenny has been a puppet dictator run by Man Soo for years. All rotation decisions have been made by our former bullpen catcher since the first conversation he had with KW.

*Phone rings*
"Hello?"
"Kenny!!! Man Soo here!!!"
"What is it, Mr.Lee? Make it quick..I'm in an airport in Phoenix."
"Danny Wright...he...he..."
"Yes, Man Soo....?"
"Danny Wright...he sucks! No more Danny Wright!"
*Abrupt click*
"Fair enough."

Rerish noooooo!

Frontman
04-17-2008, 08:27 PM
I feel like that duck from the Aflac commerical with Yoggi.

http://intranetblog.blogware.com/aflac.jpg

"HUH?!?!?!?!?!?"

This thread is beyond compare, even to the bullpen thread of 07. So, the greatest is determined by all 5 starters finally having a win in 2 weeks worth of pitching?!?!?!?!?






:hawk
"I tell you, some of these posters have no clue. They absolutely have zero clue."

Let's see them bring home the trophy and the city host a parade first, then we can compare them to some of the all time great rotations. In the meantime, let's wait and see.

santo=dorf
04-17-2008, 09:03 PM
:hawk

"I tell you, some of these posters have no clue. They absolutely have zero clue."

Agreed completely.



This thread is beyond compare, even to the bullpen thread of 07. So, the greatest is determined by all 5 starters finally having a win in 2 weeks worth of pitching?!?!?!?!?

It's hilarious this was posted BEFORE the Hawk quote, but like you said, some posters in this thread still have no clue.

Elephant
04-17-2008, 09:06 PM
I laugh with every person who comes along thinking this isn't satire.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 09:15 PM
I laugh with every person who claims this IS satire

BadBobbyJenks
04-17-2008, 09:30 PM
Im pretty sure that tonight, Gavin Floyd proved this rotation is the greatest ever.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 09:38 PM
now the question is:
Is this bullpen the worst ever?

Frontman
04-17-2008, 09:43 PM
now the question is:Is this bullpen the worst ever?

Oh totally. Bobby Jenks? Completely over-rated. :rolleyes:

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 09:48 PM
Oh totally. Bobby Jenks? Completely over-rated. :rolleyes:

Can we start a quarter collection to buy clues for underprivileged posters?

Jerksticks
04-17-2008, 09:56 PM
Haha, you really gotta hit em in the face with a TealStick for some of these posters huh. I hate teal, it actually ruins the humor of sarcasm, or written humor in general. Completely ridiculous. That being said, Boone should be sent packing right now. He's never showed anything.

Jerksticks

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 09:57 PM
I'm not feeling that Boone Logan there

Frontman
04-17-2008, 09:57 PM
Can we start a quarter collection to buy clues for underprivileged posters?

A solid educational system takes more money than that. Considering we're already talking some down off the ledge; we need to throw gobs and gobs of money at the issue!!

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 09:58 PM
:hmm:

Frontman
04-17-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm not feeling that Boone Logan there

Where's Singelton when we really need him? He could of just called him the "Bone Lugan" again.

fquaye149
04-17-2008, 10:05 PM
Where's Singelton when we really need him? He could of just called him the "Bone Lugan" again.

I think this is a good time to reiterate that I prefer to call Cecil Fielder "see-sull fel-durr"

HebrewHammer
04-18-2008, 01:58 AM
Okay, the immortal Javier Vazquez is pitching against some character named "Neimann." I can only assume it's this guy...

http://trik.sopca.com/files/newman.jpg

Predicted line for Javy.... 9 IP only 18 K's(that Rays lineup is tough) and only 1 hit, but he will walk 7. Javy gets bored sometimes.

300bowler
04-20-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't think you can say their the best rotation ever unless they win it this year. :gulp:Beer it's what for dinner.

sullythered
04-20-2008, 12:43 PM
I don't think you can say their the best rotation ever unless they win it this year. :gulp:Beer it's what for dinner.
Clearly.
:whistle:

Jerksticks
04-21-2008, 07:26 PM
I don't think you can say their the best rotation ever unless they win it this year. :gulp:Beer it's what for dinner.

Wait, he just did.

Actually, this may be the greatest assembly of humans ever; for a sporting contest of course.

JSticks

Jurr
04-21-2008, 08:52 PM
This thread continues to live because one person will bump it to dispute the claim. I love it.

NADA SURF
04-21-2008, 09:47 PM
Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, Contreras and Floyd should win 20-25 apiece this season. Floyd could win 30 without a loss.

NADA SURF
04-21-2008, 09:50 PM
Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, Contreras and Floyd would win the Indy 500 on top of a bus with Ditka driving.

Da' Sox.

HebrewHammer
04-22-2008, 02:26 AM
Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, Contreras and Floyd should win 20-25 apiece this season. Floyd could win 30 without a loss.

Only 30? I think you're being more than a little pessimistic. I don't see why he can't win 40 with 40 saves.

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-22-2008, 07:43 AM
Only 30? I think you're being more than a little pessimistic. I don't see why he can't win 40 with 40 saves.

With an ERA of about 0.45 and he'll only give up a dozen home runs all year....

Cy Young anyone?

HebrewHammer
04-22-2008, 07:36 PM
With an ERA of about 0.45 and he'll only give up a dozen home runs all year....

Cy Young anyone?

Cy Young? I believe you mean the Gavin Floyd Award.